Diss and Say Goodbye
June 1, 2018 2:48 AM Subscribe
NYT Popcast delivers an exquisite excavation of the skeletons animating the back-and-forth between Pusha T and Drake. Latest update.
Andray Domise provides some context in this thread
OK. So let me say first off that I couldn't care less how this goes for Drake. I am not on the payroll. But it's a lot of people on this app taking zeroing in on his "African American" comment to ask what a Black Canadian would know about blackface. Let's talk about thisposted by Space Coyote at 4:51 AM on June 1, 2018 [5 favorites]
Pusha T and Drake both have albums out this month and next. It's hard not to see this so called "beef" as a type of hyped up marketing campaign.
That being said. The new Pusha T is a solid album. But like Dysk writes up above, it's a shame that women are so frequently framed in such misogynist ways in both lyrics and video. I generally love the beats and the music.
posted by Fizz at 6:30 AM on June 1, 2018
That being said. The new Pusha T is a solid album. But like Dysk writes up above, it's a shame that women are so frequently framed in such misogynist ways in both lyrics and video. I generally love the beats and the music.
posted by Fizz at 6:30 AM on June 1, 2018
Pusha is a competent rapper and Kanye's production is great, but yeah the mysogyny and the drug dealer mythology are both disturbing and predictable.
And Drake is just boring.
The beef is more interesting than the music, which isn't saying much, because rappers beefing as a way to boost sales has had an ugly aftertaste since those ended in murder in the 90s. Black men tearing each other down because capitalism requires it? Makes me sad & uninterested in supporting it.
posted by eustacescrubb at 8:01 AM on June 1, 2018 [2 favorites]
And Drake is just boring.
The beef is more interesting than the music, which isn't saying much, because rappers beefing as a way to boost sales has had an ugly aftertaste since those ended in murder in the 90s. Black men tearing each other down because capitalism requires it? Makes me sad & uninterested in supporting it.
posted by eustacescrubb at 8:01 AM on June 1, 2018 [2 favorites]
Space Coyote:
As a white dude, I feel not especially qualified to form an opinion on the implications of a black man wearing blackface. But, as a dude just a few years older than Drake that grew up in the vicinity of Toronto, I can attest to what a fucking nightmare the local media and public conversation around blackness was at that time, and can't imagine taking any black Torontonian to task for using pretty much any tool available to them to try to send a message.
posted by 256 at 8:14 AM on June 1, 2018 [3 favorites]
As a white dude, I feel not especially qualified to form an opinion on the implications of a black man wearing blackface. But, as a dude just a few years older than Drake that grew up in the vicinity of Toronto, I can attest to what a fucking nightmare the local media and public conversation around blackness was at that time, and can't imagine taking any black Torontonian to task for using pretty much any tool available to them to try to send a message.
posted by 256 at 8:14 AM on June 1, 2018 [3 favorites]
And Drake is just boring.
Yes, this! A hundred times this. I live just shy of Toronto and so I'm well aware of the love that this city/country and so much of the world has for Drake. And I just do not understand it. He's boring and bland. And also, I'm just not a fan of his voice. Ah well, money is money and these things will continue.
*sighs*
posted by Fizz at 8:14 AM on June 1, 2018 [3 favorites]
Yes, this! A hundred times this. I live just shy of Toronto and so I'm well aware of the love that this city/country and so much of the world has for Drake. And I just do not understand it. He's boring and bland. And also, I'm just not a fan of his voice. Ah well, money is money and these things will continue.
*sighs*
posted by Fizz at 8:14 AM on June 1, 2018 [3 favorites]
People, no matter what, for whatever reason, get upset with each other, so I don’t doubt the genuineness of the beef, but these things always fizzle out and then it’s back to business as usual.
Drake and his management are great at social media, which is why he seemingly “wins” these sorts of things. Pusha T is a legend who put out a stunning album...which was then immediately drowned out by Drake’s response. Something about this bothers me, but I can’t figure out what. I can’t shake the feeling that Drake is narcissistic, and moreso than most rappers, but even that feels like a problematic view to hold in my mind. Somehow he ends up with all the attention, and I don’t find that coincidental. As much as this is the Drake vs Pusha T beef, it mostly seems like everybody talking about Drake and completely forgetting about Pusha T’s album.
I also don’t understand what these guys’ issue with Drake is. First Meek Mill (also a rap legend), and now Pusha T. Maybe Drake actually is as annoying as he comes off? Then again, I mostly find him annoying bc of basketball (he’s seriously the world’s most obnoxious basketball fan, with Kevin Hart a close second, but if that gets more people into basketball then whatever.)
posted by gucci mane at 8:36 AM on June 1, 2018
Drake and his management are great at social media, which is why he seemingly “wins” these sorts of things. Pusha T is a legend who put out a stunning album...which was then immediately drowned out by Drake’s response. Something about this bothers me, but I can’t figure out what. I can’t shake the feeling that Drake is narcissistic, and moreso than most rappers, but even that feels like a problematic view to hold in my mind. Somehow he ends up with all the attention, and I don’t find that coincidental. As much as this is the Drake vs Pusha T beef, it mostly seems like everybody talking about Drake and completely forgetting about Pusha T’s album.
I also don’t understand what these guys’ issue with Drake is. First Meek Mill (also a rap legend), and now Pusha T. Maybe Drake actually is as annoying as he comes off? Then again, I mostly find him annoying bc of basketball (he’s seriously the world’s most obnoxious basketball fan, with Kevin Hart a close second, but if that gets more people into basketball then whatever.)
posted by gucci mane at 8:36 AM on June 1, 2018
I also don’t understand what these guys’ issue with Drake is
Maybe they live in my neighborhood and get awakened at 3AM on a regular basis by The World's Biggest Drake Fan blasting Drake from their overboomy car stereos at top volume right under their bedroom windows.
posted by eustacescrubb at 8:39 AM on June 1, 2018 [1 favorite]
Maybe they live in my neighborhood and get awakened at 3AM on a regular basis by The World's Biggest Drake Fan blasting Drake from their overboomy car stereos at top volume right under their bedroom windows.
posted by eustacescrubb at 8:39 AM on June 1, 2018 [1 favorite]
The way it plays out on Twitter, there seems to be a lot of unsubtle antisemitism in the responses to Drake, and the degree to which it is ignored is really starting to get uncomfortable to me. I have seen so many Twitter threads that are like this.
TWITTER USER 1: Drake won't acknowledge a baby he had!
EVERYONE: Yeah!
TWITTER USER 2: And he did blackface!
EVERYONE: Yeah!
TWITTER USER 3: And he's barely black!
EVERYONE: Well ...
TWITTER USER 4: He's a Khazari imposter helping to displace the true Israeli people!
EVERONE: (Crickets.)
posted by maxsparber at 8:51 AM on June 1, 2018 [2 favorites]
TWITTER USER 1: Drake won't acknowledge a baby he had!
EVERYONE: Yeah!
TWITTER USER 2: And he did blackface!
EVERYONE: Yeah!
TWITTER USER 3: And he's barely black!
EVERYONE: Well ...
TWITTER USER 4: He's a Khazari imposter helping to displace the true Israeli people!
EVERONE: (Crickets.)
posted by maxsparber at 8:51 AM on June 1, 2018 [2 favorites]
Damn, Now Led Zeppelin is getting involved.
posted by A Bad Catholic at 1:48 PM on June 1, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by A Bad Catholic at 1:48 PM on June 1, 2018 [1 favorite]
Well. The Drake thing certainly has taken everyone's mind off Daytona's extremely distasteful cover. I don't believe anyone from GOOD music is surprised or disappointed by the avalanche of attention directed at Drake. Album promotion is expensive and way less interesting than going viral.
I like Drake's music. I also think Drake can take care of himself. He's just going to make his own version of Taylor Swift's Reputation after this. As fun as all this tabloid nastiness is, the more lasting damage to Drake's image might come by way of Pusha T's follow-up statement on the blackface photo: “That doesn’t change my view at all... You are silent on all black issues, Drake.... You don’t stand for nothing, you don’t say nothing about nothing.” He continued, “You have all the platform in the world. You were so passionate back then? No you weren’t. That’s number one. That’s what I know.” I know he's Canadian and biracial, but sometimes Drake seems to deeply apolitical that it's bizarre. (Also very Taylor Swifty of him.)
posted by grandiloquiet at 3:53 PM on June 2, 2018
I like Drake's music. I also think Drake can take care of himself. He's just going to make his own version of Taylor Swift's Reputation after this. As fun as all this tabloid nastiness is, the more lasting damage to Drake's image might come by way of Pusha T's follow-up statement on the blackface photo: “That doesn’t change my view at all... You are silent on all black issues, Drake.... You don’t stand for nothing, you don’t say nothing about nothing.” He continued, “You have all the platform in the world. You were so passionate back then? No you weren’t. That’s number one. That’s what I know.” I know he's Canadian and biracial, but sometimes Drake seems to deeply apolitical that it's bizarre. (Also very Taylor Swifty of him.)
posted by grandiloquiet at 3:53 PM on June 2, 2018
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Personally, I find it hard to laugh or whoop along to anything that, as Oke puts it, uses women as cannon fodder.
posted by Dysk at 3:01 AM on June 1, 2018 [3 favorites]