When the Government Stops Existing
June 1, 2018 9:30 AM Subscribe
The Secret Buried in the Puerto Rican Death Toll, the ‘official death toll’ from Hurricane Maria was 64 but a new Harvard study puts it closer to 5,000 ( Rolling Stone) A New Hurricane Season Is Starting In Puerto Rico. Thousands Are Still Living Without Electricity. (Buzzfeed) People on Twitter shares stories of those they lost #4645boricuas. Puerto Rico’s DIY disaster relief (NYR books) Anarchists come to aid when the state doesn’t (previously) Hurricane season starts June 1st.
Deliberately.
posted by Pope Guilty at 10:01 AM on June 1, 2018 [66 favorites]
posted by Pope Guilty at 10:01 AM on June 1, 2018 [66 favorites]
Hurricane season starts July 1st.
Now is a good time to pray. Even if you don’t.
posted by schadenfrau at 10:10 AM on June 1, 2018 [1 favorite]
Now is a good time to pray. Even if you don’t.
posted by schadenfrau at 10:10 AM on June 1, 2018 [1 favorite]
How the fuck does that happen?
I suspect the limp shrug response to the tragedy has a racial element.
posted by adept256 at 10:20 AM on June 1, 2018 [4 favorites]
I suspect the limp shrug response to the tragedy has a racial element.
posted by adept256 at 10:20 AM on June 1, 2018 [4 favorites]
Different counting criteria? Is the harvard study counting deceased weeks or months after the actual hurricane? If so it's perhaps partially the fault of nature but rather much more due to political and corporate corruption, not just the on island bureaucracy but the Congress of the United States. As much as Trump could have been a hero and was not the general infrastructure failure seems to be from long term "psst let's funnel funds through that island down there, they don't steal too much and we can make a killing" which was just lightly evil until a crisis.
posted by sammyo at 10:27 AM on June 1, 2018
posted by sammyo at 10:27 AM on June 1, 2018
Hurricane season starts July 1st.
Today (June 1) is the commonly recognized start of hurricane season in the North Atlantic basin.
posted by theory at 10:33 AM on June 1, 2018 [8 favorites]
Today (June 1) is the commonly recognized start of hurricane season in the North Atlantic basin.
posted by theory at 10:33 AM on June 1, 2018 [8 favorites]
There is also some responsibility on the local governments, which either doesn't have the resources to find and catalog all the dead, or some other form of corruption and cover-up. As far as the governor is concerned, he's come out more recently with stronger language, but it still doesn't explain why the count was so off in the first place. I should note that I'm not absolving our federal "government" of anything, just that there's a myriad of shady shit going on at all levels of government here.
posted by numaner at 10:34 AM on June 1, 2018
posted by numaner at 10:34 AM on June 1, 2018
Today (June 1) is the commonly recognized start of hurricane season in the North Atlantic basin.
I thought that date was odd too, as gulf hurricane season seems to always be in late August/early September.
posted by numaner at 10:35 AM on June 1, 2018 [1 favorite]
I thought that date was odd too, as gulf hurricane season seems to always be in late August/early September.
posted by numaner at 10:35 AM on June 1, 2018 [1 favorite]
Here's the study article itself, which is pretty readable. The WashPo article about it is very good if you want a summary.
I'd love to see an article about comparative calculations for hurricane-related deaths in other places. Those numbers will also be higher than the official death toll of the storm itself. OTOH, the United States doesn't fail mainland cities like Houston nearly as badly as the way we failed Puerto Rico. New Orleans may come close.
posted by Nelson at 10:52 AM on June 1, 2018 [9 favorites]
From the survey data, we estimated a mortality rate of 14.3 deaths ... per 1000 persons from September 20 through December 31, 2017. This rate yielded a total of 4645 excess deaths during this period ..., equivalent to a 62% increase in the mortality rate as compared with the same period in 2016. However, this number is likely to be an underestimate because of survivor bias. The mortality rate remained high through the end of December 2017, and one third of the deaths were attributed to delayed or interrupted health care. Hurricane-related migration was substantial.That's how you get from 64 to 5000; you count deaths in the months after that are related to the damage the hurricane caused.
I'd love to see an article about comparative calculations for hurricane-related deaths in other places. Those numbers will also be higher than the official death toll of the storm itself. OTOH, the United States doesn't fail mainland cities like Houston nearly as badly as the way we failed Puerto Rico. New Orleans may come close.
posted by Nelson at 10:52 AM on June 1, 2018 [9 favorites]
Different counting criteria? Is the harvard study counting deceased weeks or months after the actual hurricane? If so it's perhaps partially the fault of nature but rather much more due to political and corporate corruption, not just the on island bureaucracy but the Congress of the United States.
We count the people who die because a building fell on them in an earthquake even if that building wasn't up to code. The majority of deaths that were counted in Katrina were due to heat, abandonment of the elderly, lack of necessary medication.
If you die because your house fell on you in the hurricane, the hurricane caused your death. If you died because you drowned in flood waters caused by the hurricane, the hurricane caused your death. If you died because your heart couldn't take the stress of the hurricane, the hurricane caused your death. If you died because the power was out for months and you needed a ventilator to breathe, the hurricane that knocked out the power caused your death. If you died because you drank unclean water because the hurricane destroyed the grid and the ability to get basic supplies, the hurricane caused your death. If you died because the medicine you need to live couldn't get to you because the roads were destroyed in the hurricane, the hurricane killed you.
If you can say that someone would still be alive if Maria did not hit the island, the damn hurricane killed that person. The survivors and family members should get the appropriate support and compensation due to those who lost someone due to the hurricane. It doesn't matter if the why you died was because Trump is an asshole and can't be bothered to send appropriate help, or if Congress has denied the plan to have an underground electric grid for the island for decades, or local corruption. To say, with a straight face that only 64 people died in the hurricane is beyond the pale and needs to be called out every single time the lie is told.
The United States failed its citizens in a phenomenal way with Maria.
posted by teleri025 at 11:03 AM on June 1, 2018 [51 favorites]
We count the people who die because a building fell on them in an earthquake even if that building wasn't up to code. The majority of deaths that were counted in Katrina were due to heat, abandonment of the elderly, lack of necessary medication.
If you die because your house fell on you in the hurricane, the hurricane caused your death. If you died because you drowned in flood waters caused by the hurricane, the hurricane caused your death. If you died because your heart couldn't take the stress of the hurricane, the hurricane caused your death. If you died because the power was out for months and you needed a ventilator to breathe, the hurricane that knocked out the power caused your death. If you died because you drank unclean water because the hurricane destroyed the grid and the ability to get basic supplies, the hurricane caused your death. If you died because the medicine you need to live couldn't get to you because the roads were destroyed in the hurricane, the hurricane killed you.
If you can say that someone would still be alive if Maria did not hit the island, the damn hurricane killed that person. The survivors and family members should get the appropriate support and compensation due to those who lost someone due to the hurricane. It doesn't matter if the why you died was because Trump is an asshole and can't be bothered to send appropriate help, or if Congress has denied the plan to have an underground electric grid for the island for decades, or local corruption. To say, with a straight face that only 64 people died in the hurricane is beyond the pale and needs to be called out every single time the lie is told.
The United States failed its citizens in a phenomenal way with Maria.
posted by teleri025 at 11:03 AM on June 1, 2018 [51 favorites]
I've said before, this is mass ethnic negligent homocide. What do we do?
Donate to relief charities.
Call elected officials
Vote the bums out
Offer state hood
Pitch Forks and Torches
posted by Anchorite_of_Palgrave at 11:47 AM on June 1, 2018 [12 favorites]
Donate to relief charities.
Call elected officials
Vote the bums out
Offer state hood
Pitch Forks and Torches
posted by Anchorite_of_Palgrave at 11:47 AM on June 1, 2018 [12 favorites]
I've said before, this is mass ethnic negligent homocide. What do we do?
am willing to help build guillotines
posted by entropone at 11:52 AM on June 1, 2018 [8 favorites]
am willing to help build guillotines
posted by entropone at 11:52 AM on June 1, 2018 [8 favorites]
From what I have heard - grain of salt there - all the official record-keeping mechanisms have been overloaded in the months since Maria. Normally (in the mainland) hospitals and morgues and whatnot will have a code to mark disaster-related records, and will report them to whatever relevant agencies are on the ground. In this case, the hospitals and morgues were so damaged and overloaded that even the normal record-keeping wasn't happening. The initial numbers reported in the first few weeks simply didn't have the numbers from large parts of the island. And when the reports finally came in, they were missing a lot of crucial information from those weeks immediately after the disaster.
so as far as I can tell, for this study, the only official data they had was overall mortality, with no reliable indication of whether a given death was disaster-related or not. So they compared the mortality rate of those months post-disaster to the mortality rate from previous years. Then they did some stuff with statistics that I don't understand. So this is a rigorous estimate. It goes significantly further than the confirmed solid official data, because the solid confirmed data is entirely insufficient in this case.
What I don't know is, I don't know if it's normal or suspicious for this report to come from Harvard instead of one of the government agencies involved. Like, is this further evidence of FEMA slacking off, or even lying.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 12:51 PM on June 1, 2018 [1 favorite]
so as far as I can tell, for this study, the only official data they had was overall mortality, with no reliable indication of whether a given death was disaster-related or not. So they compared the mortality rate of those months post-disaster to the mortality rate from previous years. Then they did some stuff with statistics that I don't understand. So this is a rigorous estimate. It goes significantly further than the confirmed solid official data, because the solid confirmed data is entirely insufficient in this case.
What I don't know is, I don't know if it's normal or suspicious for this report to come from Harvard instead of one of the government agencies involved. Like, is this further evidence of FEMA slacking off, or even lying.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 12:51 PM on June 1, 2018 [1 favorite]
What are some easy steps people outside of PR can take on a local political basis to advance the cause of statehood for Puerto Rico?
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 12:55 PM on June 1, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 12:55 PM on June 1, 2018 [4 favorites]
They should go the other way. Why join a country that has treated them so shamefully. Puerto Rico should leave the US and form another union. Pairing with an independent Scotland would be a natural fit. Then join the EU together.
What's the worst that could happen? Is the US going to kill 5000 Puerto Ricans? Been there, done that.
posted by pracowity at 1:06 PM on June 1, 2018 [1 favorite]
What's the worst that could happen? Is the US going to kill 5000 Puerto Ricans? Been there, done that.
posted by pracowity at 1:06 PM on June 1, 2018 [1 favorite]
Historians argue about when exactly the Roman empire fell but a sign the end was coming was when the empire withdrew support from Britannia and never went back because they couldn't afford to. The US can't afford Puerto Rico. I know P.R. has been part of the US since 1898 but Britannia was part of the Roman empire for 367 years and they were abandoned to fend for themselves. Puerto Rico better look to their own future because increased investment from the USA is not in their future.
posted by Gwynarra at 2:34 PM on June 1, 2018 [10 favorites]
posted by Gwynarra at 2:34 PM on June 1, 2018 [10 favorites]
Pairing with an independent Scotland would be a natural fit.
Not that I don't appreciate the sentiment, but... what?
posted by tavegyl at 3:10 PM on June 1, 2018 [7 favorites]
Not that I don't appreciate the sentiment, but... what?
posted by tavegyl at 3:10 PM on June 1, 2018 [7 favorites]
If you can say that someone would still be alive if Maria did not hit the island, the damn hurricane killed that person.
I was writing up a very emotional response but you said it better for me. Thank you.
posted by corb at 4:24 PM on June 1, 2018 [3 favorites]
I was writing up a very emotional response but you said it better for me. Thank you.
posted by corb at 4:24 PM on June 1, 2018 [3 favorites]
They should go the other way. Why join a country that has treated them so shamefully.
Perhaps you should direct that question toward Puerto Ricans, whose opinions on the subject are readily Googlable. This page has a bunch of info. Perhaps most salient is that in the most recent poll, only 15% of Puerto Ricans supported independence, even less than the 17% who supported the status quo. Support for statehood has increased steadily from referendum to referendum, over the past 50 years.
Hawaii and Alaska both fared far better after their statehoods. I can't take seriously the view that those places would be better off as independent countries. The bulk of Puerto Ricans, like most people, are adult enough to make their political decisions based on present realities, not historical grievances. There are some good reasons to support independence, but bitterness about past abuse is not one of them.
posted by andrewpcone at 4:37 PM on June 1, 2018 [5 favorites]
Perhaps you should direct that question toward Puerto Ricans, whose opinions on the subject are readily Googlable. This page has a bunch of info. Perhaps most salient is that in the most recent poll, only 15% of Puerto Ricans supported independence, even less than the 17% who supported the status quo. Support for statehood has increased steadily from referendum to referendum, over the past 50 years.
Hawaii and Alaska both fared far better after their statehoods. I can't take seriously the view that those places would be better off as independent countries. The bulk of Puerto Ricans, like most people, are adult enough to make their political decisions based on present realities, not historical grievances. There are some good reasons to support independence, but bitterness about past abuse is not one of them.
posted by andrewpcone at 4:37 PM on June 1, 2018 [5 favorites]
In February, the NYT podcast "the daily" did an episode on Maria deaths, including (among other things) what seems like deliberate governmental undercounting of the ancillary mortalities (lack of insulin, heatstroke, no medial facilities) with both personal tales and a look at mortality statistics compared to the same month the year before. The numbers have changed with time, but the podcast is still very compelling.
posted by Measured Out my Life in Coffeespoons at 5:38 PM on June 1, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by Measured Out my Life in Coffeespoons at 5:38 PM on June 1, 2018 [4 favorites]
I imagine the counting methodology from the government was something impossibly specific like, "deaths proven to be due to water or wind-driven debris during the period the storm was categorized as a hurricane. We mean like on-camera with timestamps."
posted by rhizome at 7:16 PM on June 1, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by rhizome at 7:16 PM on June 1, 2018 [2 favorites]
If you died because the power was out for months and you needed a ventilator to breathe, the hurricane that knocked out the power caused your death.
I heard an anecdote just after the hurricane hit, about a hospital with an intensive care unit. Due to the power cuts and general chaos, every single person in that intensive care unit died.
posted by nnethercote at 12:09 AM on June 2, 2018 [3 favorites]
I heard an anecdote just after the hurricane hit, about a hospital with an intensive care unit. Due to the power cuts and general chaos, every single person in that intensive care unit died.
posted by nnethercote at 12:09 AM on June 2, 2018 [3 favorites]
The US can't afford Puerto Rico.
The US doesn't want to afford Puerto Rico, because brown people.
posted by xigxag at 5:44 AM on June 2, 2018 [9 favorites]
The US doesn't want to afford Puerto Rico, because brown people.
posted by xigxag at 5:44 AM on June 2, 2018 [9 favorites]
Someone on my internets somewhere suggested that the government is deliberately destroying the Puerto Rican economy to depress the real estate values and turn it into a gambling resort like another US commonwealth known for it's money laundering. Why someone would expect this administration to be involved a probably criminal money laundering gambling casino and hotel scheme that has the advantage of killing brown people is beyond me...
posted by stet at 6:40 PM on June 2, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by stet at 6:40 PM on June 2, 2018 [3 favorites]
We Still Don’t Know How Many People Died Because Of Katrina. This is the best I could come up with for trying to find an estimate like this one for Hurricane Maria, but for New Orleans. It has a very reliable table of direct deaths, and then talks about the problem of measuring indirect deaths. There's one possible estimate for those indirect deaths for Katrina but it's unreliable enough I'm not going to quote it.
I skimmed a bunch of other articles and part of the problem is there are many different methods and time frames for measuring indirect deaths. The NYTimes addresses this discrepancy head-on. I think it's not easy to compare numbers.
Another comparison I'm interested in is depopulation. New Orleans lost something like 20% of its people in the Katrina diaspora. Puerto Rico seems to have lost 150,000+ people as well, or 5% of the population.
Lots of ways to argue the details on the numbers. Not that it matters. The thing that matters is thousands of people died in Maria and its aftermath, and 100,000s may leave Puerto Rico permanently. The US did shockingly poorly in helping its citizens.
posted by Nelson at 4:00 PM on June 5, 2018 [4 favorites]
I skimmed a bunch of other articles and part of the problem is there are many different methods and time frames for measuring indirect deaths. The NYTimes addresses this discrepancy head-on. I think it's not easy to compare numbers.
Another comparison I'm interested in is depopulation. New Orleans lost something like 20% of its people in the Katrina diaspora. Puerto Rico seems to have lost 150,000+ people as well, or 5% of the population.
Lots of ways to argue the details on the numbers. Not that it matters. The thing that matters is thousands of people died in Maria and its aftermath, and 100,000s may leave Puerto Rico permanently. The US did shockingly poorly in helping its citizens.
posted by Nelson at 4:00 PM on June 5, 2018 [4 favorites]
Homes forclose and school’s shuttered as PR becomes a playground for rich investors
posted by The Whelk at 7:40 AM on June 7, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by The Whelk at 7:40 AM on June 7, 2018 [3 favorites]
Democrats call for 9/11-style commission to investigate Trump Puerto Rico response.
posted by Nelson at 7:52 AM on June 7, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by Nelson at 7:52 AM on June 7, 2018 [3 favorites]
PR was already a playground for rich "investors," that's why they don't have the money to do their own repairs. Whatever is going on now is just a clearance sale.
posted by rhizome at 12:57 PM on June 7, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by rhizome at 12:57 PM on June 7, 2018 [2 favorites]
« Older “Press X to fight oppression.” | NOFX: Three Chords and Inappropriate Jokes Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 9:54 AM on June 1, 2018 [7 favorites]