the chickens are coming home to roost... any day now.
June 15, 2018 4:07 AM   Subscribe

"The Clinton Trump foundation is a criminal enterprise!" At least that's what the New York State Attorney General's office is suing him for. Meanwhile Trump made friends over the weekend in Singapore, much to Kim Jong Un's delight. They even made a video to commemorate the historic event.

In this 'scaramucci's' episode of "as the Constitution spins in its un-marked grave" the writers propose a meeting between Trump and Putin, jailing kids who come across the border with their parents as a way to make a buck, and to find out more tune in to the latest episode!
posted by From Bklyn (2610 comments total) 106 users marked this as a favorite
 
Just because it’s too good not to quote explicitly, here’s the lead-in to the announcement in the first link:
Attorney General Underwood Announces Lawsuit Against Donald J. Trump Foundation And Its Board Of Directors For Extensive And Persistent Violations Of State And Federal Law

Lawsuit Seeks Restitution of $2.8 Million Plus Penalties

AG’s Office Sends Referral Letters to Internal Revenue Service and Federal Election Commission for Further Investigation and Legal Action

In Light Of Misconduct And Total Lack of Oversight, Lawsuit Seeks To Dissolve Donald J. Trump Foundation and Bar Donald J. Trump And Members Of Trump Foundation’s Board Of Directors From Serving On Board Of Any Other New York Charity

Valar popcornis!
posted by darkstar at 4:14 AM on June 15 [67 favorites]


Yesterday, in a speech in Fort Wayne, Jeff Sessions invoked bible scripture as justification for separating families at the border. Later, when asked about it by the press, Sarah Sanders backed him up on it.
posted by Thorzdad at 4:16 AM on June 15 [30 favorites]


So I'm just catching up on the "very Biblical to enforce the law" stuff from yesterday and I perhaps need some clarification as an atheist here—does conventional Christian theology regard it as somehow good or proper for Jesus to have been crucified under Roman law, maybe in a "God hardened the Pharaoh's heart" way or a Terminator time loop / fulfillment of prophecy way?

If Christians don't regard the crucifixion of Jesus to be a just or appropriate enforcement of law, that's one heckuva prominent counterexample to handwave past in the course of generically asserting that enforcement of law is "Biblical"...

Also on the progress of the various investigations seeming to near a crescendo, is anyone else reminded of Independence Day when the alien ship arrives in position above the White House and starts to power up its weapon? Good thing it's so Biblical to enforce law.
posted by XMLicious at 4:19 AM on June 15 [16 favorites]


No, not all Christians believe that temporal law is the ultimate arbiter of what we are called to obey. From my comment in the earlier thread, there are key counterexamples that make the whole “the Bible is about enforcing the government’s law” a chilling echo of autocratic regimes.
posted by darkstar at 4:23 AM on June 15 [26 favorites]


does conventional Christian theology regard it as somehow good or proper for Jesus to have been crucified under Roman law,

Not that I'm any sort of theologian, but the varieties of Christianity I'm familiar with tend to be silent on whether it was "proper" or legal under Roman law. I mean, Christianity isn't really about the finer points of first century Roman law.

The crucifixion is, however, unequivocally seen as good, seeing as how it led to, you know, the salvation of all mankind (or some of mankind, depending on your particular variety of Christianity). I mean, the annual commemoration of the event is called Good Friday, and that's not intended to be ironic.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 4:30 AM on June 15 [5 favorites]


The adolescent in my life has a great disdain for current politics and is working his first real job. Last night he was talking about the NK meeting. I was like, cool, you're watching the news. He said, I can't help it, the tv is on all day and I was like what channel what channel WHAT CHANNEL.

So now we have to deprogram this kid, like, daily. He was talking about the great significance of the NK meeting and we're like /facepalm.

But the owner is this pugnacious guy who hails from Italy and punched out some guy in his parking lot last week because of an insult to his dough. I'm telling the kid to ask him probing questions about the Euro, sort of hoping to cause some sort of meltdown.

Hopefully the kid's exposure to Fox will be like when boys read Ayn Rand and then it wears off (usually).
posted by angrycat at 4:33 AM on June 15 [65 favorites]


In other democracies (in all their various forms), is the head of state largely held to be free from the rule of law? If so, what is the reasoning behind giving said person such a godhead?

I mean, I can understand that maybe the office of the head of state and it's personification in whoever currently holds the office, in their official acts, needs to be able to fulfill their sworn, legal duties free from encumbrance of "petty" lawsuits, for example. But I've never taken that to mean that the human being (or facsimiles like Trump) in their private actions is free to do whatever the fuck they want.

I think there is a very strong argument that having a person in office whose non-presidential acts are so patently illegal prevents the same person from fulfilling their duties in their official role.

So how is it even a question whether the President is above the law, as a person?

(Humans love their "gods" and "royalty", don't they?)
posted by maxwelton at 4:33 AM on June 15 [11 favorites]


The whole "the Bible tells us to enforce the law" is:

1) particularly galling when the Justice Department said it wasn't going to defend key provisions of the ACA literally last week,

2) particularly galling when the policy being defended isn't an actual law, and

3) HOLY FUCK WHO GIVES A SHIT WHAT THE BIBLE HAS TO SAY ABOUT THE LAW EITHER WAY THIS IS NOT A THEOCRACY
posted by kyrademon at 4:34 AM on June 15 [267 favorites]


So how is it even a question whether the President is above the law, as a person?

Because there are people for whom it is not a foregone conclusion that "respect the office of the president" is different from "the person in the office is also absolved of scrutiny for their private life".

And there are even more people for whom the line shifts depending on "is the guy who's in office right now on my team or the other team?"
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:37 AM on June 15 [9 favorites]


If Christians don't regard the crucifixion of Jesus to be a just or appropriate enforcement of law...

I'm not sure they'd go so far as to say it was a just/appropriate application of law, though, given that, without the crucifixion, there'd be no Christianity. Instead, they fix all the blame on Judas and move on.
posted by Thorzdad at 4:37 AM on June 15 [1 favorite]


After fully skipping the last 2 megathreads, I pop in. I'm still wondering at what point, when the cancer is pervasive and attacking the whole system, do we strike hard and at least cripple/slow it?
Not that I'm counting on Mueller but goddamn it, take some fucking serious swipes already.
posted by yoga at 4:39 AM on June 15 [18 favorites]


Wasn't the Holocaust mandated by German law? Could someone please ask Sessions and Sanders about that?
posted by Cocodrillo at 4:41 AM on June 15 [13 favorites]


I was like, cool, you're watching the news. He said, I can't help it, the tv is on all day and I was like what channel what channel WHAT CHANNEL.

Oh, I can guarantee it's Fox News. It's always Fox News. If it's a business, and there's a tv on all day, it's going to be Fox News. Doubly so if it's in the customer waiting area. It doesn't matter if it's a muffler shop or a doctor's office. It's always Fox News.
posted by Thorzdad at 4:49 AM on June 15 [30 favorites]


I'd really appreciate ending the biblical B plot discussions. We know anyone on the side of obeying laws makes a good christian is easily going to be shown a hypocrite. And anyone in the current administration is that and more. I'll buy a soapbox for my next pony request.
posted by michswiss at 4:53 AM on June 15 [28 favorites]


So Nunes is upset again. Why, oh why did no one tell him anything before the IG report was released?

Incidentally, I have never seen a sweatier, guiltier looking guy in my life. Every time I see him it reminds me of myself when my wife asks where all the cookies went.
posted by Literaryhero at 4:59 AM on June 15 [43 favorites]


The whole "the Bible tells us to enforce the law"

I cannot even begin to get into how insane this entire argument is on a religious level, because it is insane, but given Session’s public statements on Masterpiece Cakeshop, I have another Bible quote I feel is far more relevant, namely Matthew 23:27-28:
[27]Woe to you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites; because you are like to whited sepulchres, which outwardly appear to men beautiful, but within are full of dead men's bones, and of all filthiness. [28] So you also outwardly indeed appear to men just; but inwardly you are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.
posted by corb at 5:00 AM on June 15 [64 favorites]


Father Simmons
Dear Jeff Sessions, are you aware that the argument you made today from Romans 13 was a central argument of the German Christian (Pro-Nazi) movement over and against the Confessing Church? I'm not saying you are a Nazi, but you’re interpreting the Bible like one.
posted by chris24 at 5:19 AM on June 15 [171 favorites]




`In other democracies (in all their various forms), is the head of state largely held to be free from the rule of law? If so, what is the reasoning behind giving said person such a godhead?

Nit: I think you mean head of government, not head of state. The US is a bit weird in making them the same person; most democracies split them between a prime minister and a president or monarch.

But yeah, AFAIK it's commonplace for the head of government to be immune. The logic behind that immunity isn't hard to understand, especially in a federal system where significant subnational governments might be controlled by other parties. Just imagine 2009-2017 in a world where instead of filing civil suit against the federal government every 18 seconds, shitbag Republican DAs/AGs like Abbott (at the time) could have been filing actual indictments against Obama, and probably convincing shitbag Republican judges to withhold bail entirely.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 5:39 AM on June 15 [7 favorites]


Trump approves tough tarriffs on China (Politicalwire via AP, the failed NYT)

President Trump “has approved a plan to impose punishing tariffs on tens of billions of dollars of Chinese goods as early as Friday, a move that could put his trade policies on a collision course with his push to rid the Korean Peninsula of nuclear weapons,” the AP reports.

“Trump met Thursday with several Cabinet members and trade advisers and was expected to impose tariffs on at least $35 billion to $40 billion of Chinese imports… The amount of goods could reach $55 billion.”


The die is flushed . . .
posted by petebest at 5:42 AM on June 15 [4 favorites]


> Nearly one-fifth of Americans would deny their country’s Muslims the right to vote

Again from the Wikipedia article above, what I thought was an interesting quote, relating to the systematic removal of citizens' rights from Jewish people by the Nazis:

'Philosopher Hannah Arendt pointed out this important judicial aspect of the Holocaust in The Origins of Totalitarianism (1951), where she demonstrated that to violate human rights, Nazi Germany first deprived human beings of their citizenship. Arendt underlined that in the Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen, citizens' rights actually preceded human rights, as the latter needed the protection of a determinate state to be actually respected.'

posted by Myeral at 5:44 AM on June 15 [36 favorites]


We are now, officially, in a global trade war, in which our opponents are not only our traditional adversaries, but also our historic allies.

The cost to average, hardworking Americans will be in the hundreds of billions of dollars before it’s over.

This is what happens when you have incompetents and ideologues running things.
posted by darkstar at 5:47 AM on June 15 [65 favorites]


Jews are still sounding off after the Orthodox Union gave AG Jeff Sessions an honor/award yesterday.

The OU isn't just a representative organization for many Orthodox synagogues. They also grant a mark, called a hechsher, to kosher foods so Jews will know which have passed inspection and are approved to eat by a board of rabbis. Their mark is accepted by most Jews who keep kosher, more than any other organization's. The OU Should Stick To Kosher Laws - Or Become Treif
How are the OU’s customers going to feel about it honoring Jeff Sessions? At some point, they are going to ask whether they want child-separation branded on their baked beans and medium-sharp cheddar. They are going to remember that they wanted kosher food so that everyone could eat at their wedding—not so that a queer couple couldn’t have one. They are going to ask exactly what is so ethical or healthy about an institution whose political concerns are moving the American embassy to Jerusalem, securing the right to discriminate against LGBT people, and cozying up to Donald Trump. Those non-Orthodox Jews are going to wonder why they should outsource their kashrut to people whose Judaism is fundamentally alien to their own. And everyone is going to realize that there are hundreds of other kashrut agencies out there—many which don’t run a political lobby on the side.

posted by zarq at 5:50 AM on June 15 [54 favorites]


Trump approves tough tarriffs on China

Looks like North Korea won't be returning the State Depts call anymore.
posted by PenDevil at 5:53 AM on June 15 [3 favorites]




I really do not understand what he thinks those tariffs are going to accomplish. Even when I disagreed with Reagan or Bush's policies, I could understand their reasoning.

But he's fomenting chaos that will rebound and punch us in the face. There's no way this won't hurt American taxpayers. It seems like an incredibly counterintuitive move for a man who is deeply insecure and desperate to have the worship of the people.
posted by zarq at 5:59 AM on June 15 [9 favorites]


Matthew Yglesias (Vox)
When reading about the obviously illegal things the Trump Foundation did, recall that the Times & Post partnered with conservative advocacy groups to run oppo research about the Clinton Foundation.

Politico: New York Times, Washington Post, Fox News strike deals for anti-Clinton research
The New York Times, The Washington Post and Fox News have made exclusive agreements with a conservative author for early access to his opposition research on Hillary Clinton, a move that has confounded members of the Clinton campaign and some reporters, the On Media blog has confirmed.

"Clinton Cash: The Untold Story of How and Why Foreign Governments and Businesses Helped Make Bill and Hillary Rich" will debut on May 5. But the Times, the Post and Fox have already made arrangements with author Peter Schweizer to pursue some of the material included in his book, which seeks to draw connections between Clinton Foundation donations and speaking fees and Hillary Clinton's actions as secretary of state. Schweizer is the president of the Government Accountability Institute, a conservative research group, and previously served as an adviser to Republican vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin.

Fox News' use of Schweizer's book has surprised no one. The bulk of the network's programming is conservative, and the book's publisher, HarperCollins, is owned by News Corporation. But the Times and Post's decision to partner with a partisan researcher has raised a few eyebrows. Some Times reporters view the agreement as unusual, sources there said. Still others defended the agreement, noting that it was no different from using a campaign's opposition research to inform one's reporting -- so long as that research is fact-checked and vetted. A spokesperson for the Times did not provide comment by press time.
---

Hmm.. Some Times folks thought doing oppo for Rs was a bad idea, some a good idea. I wonder who welcomed being an arm of the Republican Party?

Maggie Haberman
.@amychozick got her hands on that "Clinton Cash" book, y'all
NYT: New Book, ‘Clinton Cash,’ Questions Foreign Donations to Foundation
posted by chris24 at 5:59 AM on June 15 [52 favorites]


Here's the video of Trump's truly shocking strong-man remarks, via Think Progress's Aaron Rupar:
WOW -- Trump says he wants American people to treat him like North Koreans treat totalitarian dictator Kim Jong Un.

"Hey, he's the head of a country, and he's the strong head -- he speaks and his people sit up at attention. I want my people to do the same." https://pic.twitter.com/A43xYXsFod
In other news, Scott Pruitt ordered his EPA aides to facilitate a White House internship for his daughter, induced a Virginia politician to try to get his daughter into law school, leveraged cheap Rose Bowl football tickets, and staff to arrange off-the-books meeting with billionaire donor Philip Anschutz, the NYT reports.

Michael Pence, the Washington Post has uncovered, is turning VP’s office into gateway for lobbyists to influence the Trump administration: "About twice as many companies and other interests hired lobbyists to contact the vice president’s office in Pence’s first year than in any single year during the tenures of Vice Presidents Joe Biden and Richard B. Cheney, filings show.

"Among those lobbying Pence and his staff were representatives of major drug companies and energy firms, as well as businesses seeking favorable tax treatment. Many others have contacted his office on more obscure regulatory matters such as a Medicare billing dispute, technology regulations at the Department of Education and regulations at the Consumer Product Safety Commission, the records show."

And, per CNN, Michael Cohen is seeking a restraining order against Michael Avenatti to bar from speaking to the press—because of "his seemingly unquenchable thirst for publicity" that threatens "to result in Mr. Cohen being deprived of his right to a fair trial, and threatens to turn what should be a solemn federal court proceeding into a media circus."

P.S. Donald Trump has switched to retweeting Fox and Friends this morning. For the second day in a row, he has no public appearances on his schedule for today.
posted by Doktor Zed at 6:01 AM on June 15 [42 favorites]


In other democracies (in all their various forms), is the head of state largely held to be free from the rule of law? If so, what is the reasoning behind giving said person such a godhead?

Not only the head of state, but also federal and state legislators. Mexico has had this in it's constitution since the 19th century. It's called "fuero" and it's a concept that comes from medieval law. The logic, as GCU Sweet and Full of Grace point's out, is that you don't want the people in government being destabilized and constantly hassled with frivolous lawsuits by their opponents (think the Clinton investigations, but as lawsuits).

In 2006 there was a process to take away Andrés Manués López Obrador's fuero as mayor of Mexico City because of a improperly done process of imminent domain. This was largely seen as a move by Vicente Fox's government to derail Lopez's presidential campaign (which it kind of did).

As you can imagine, fuero has been used in more cases than not as a shield for corruption. In April of this year the lower chamber voted to eliminate it for federal legislators and other government officials, although the president still has to go through an impeachment process in order to be judged.
posted by Omon Ra at 6:03 AM on June 15 [10 favorites]


The Bible verse can be properly understood as a fig leaf. Feel bad about us putting babies in cages? Here's a Bible verse you can use to soothe the remnants of your conscience. Now stop thinking and keep voting Republican.
posted by emjaybee at 6:15 AM on June 15 [21 favorites]


Trump digging holes within holes within holes and jumping in live on TV right now, surrounded by press, somewhere outside the White House
posted by XMLicious at 6:18 AM on June 15 [6 favorites]


In today’s edition of ‘You’re Not Supposed To Say That Part Out Loud”:
PHOENIX -- A Republican lawmaker is being criticized for saying "there aren't enough white kids to go around" when discussing integration in schools at an event in northern Arizona. Rep. David Stringer, a Republican from Prescott, spoke Monday at the Yavapai County Republican Men's Forum.

Stringer's speech was livestreamed on Facebook and saved to his campaign page. It was later removed. But a clip widely circulated on social media by a Democrat showed Stringer talking about how immigration is changing the demographic makeup of the country.

"Sixty percent of public school children in the state of Arizona today are minorities. That complicates racial integration because there aren't enough white kids to go around," Stringer said in part of the video.

The clip also shows Stringer saying "immigration is politically destabilizing" and "immigration today represents an existential threat to the United States."

"If we don't do something about immigration very, very soon, the demographics of our country will be irrevocably changed and we will be a very different country and we will not be the country you were born into," he said.
Stringer has quite a long history of bigotry in the state.
posted by darkstar at 6:19 AM on June 15 [56 favorites]


As far as Comey's staggering hypocrisy goes, I'd argue that many people are ignoring the tribal factor. Comey is a lifelong Republican.

I doubt that Comey consciously and deliberately set out to hurt the Democrat and help the Republican, but our cognitive bias towards tribalism is insidious and our actions rarely match what we'd like to imagine our motives are. Studies show that people will rationalize and even make subconscious math errors to arrive at whatever conclusion is the "right" conclusion as deemed by their social group.

The blend of sexism and tribal politics all but guaranteed that Comey would find a way to put his thumb on the scale for Trump.

The Democrats have, for far too long, basically agreed that certain Cabinet level positions belong to the Republicans even if there's a Democratic President. FBI and CIA director and Secretary of Defense being the big three that tend to be given to Republicans as a sort of reflexive bow in the direction of bipartisanship and acknowledging innate Republican ownership of security.

I hope that the lesson of James Comey is being learned and that President Harris, or whoever gets the Democratic nom, will appoint exactly zero Republicans to her Cabinet or other high posts. The era of bipartisan comity is long over and pretending otherwise is just being a sucker.

If Obama's choice for FBI director had been a Democrat then Hillary Clinton would be President right now.
posted by sotonohito at 6:21 AM on June 15 [99 favorites]


And there it is (again):

Trump on Kim Jong Un: “He speaks and his people sit up in attention. I want my people to do the same.”


When someone tells you who they are, BELIEVE THEM.
posted by Sophie1 at 6:23 AM on June 15 [187 favorites]


Trump's bat-shit wandering press gaggle may be intended to distract from Paul Manafort's imminent jailing, but he's not only making no sense, but he's also admitting to crimes.

More, courtesy of Aaron Rupar:
REPORTER: Did you dictate Don Jr's misleading statement about Trump Tower meeting?

TRUMP: "Let's not talk about it. You know what that is? It's irrelevant. It's a statement to the NYT. The phony, failing NYT. It's not a statement to a high tribunal of judges."
When someone tells you who they are, BELIEVE THEM.

Trump: "I'm kidding, you don't understand sarcasm"
Ron Howard narrator: Donald wasn't, and he doesn't sarcasm.
posted by Doktor Zed at 6:32 AM on June 15 [50 favorites]


I really do not understand what he thinks those tariffs are going to accomplish.

Remember he's got a combative toddler's understanding of everything. I'm sure the only thing that stuck in his head about international trade is something like, "We buy more stuff from them than they buy from us." Which is both Not Fair and clearly means we're the Losers in the deals because in TrumpWorld there's no such thing as "mutually beneficial carefully balanced agreements" there's only Winners and Losers and Winners are the ones who walk away with a bunch of cash in their pockets because they've suckered the Losers into paying too much money for some crap.

Plus he's striking out at other country's leaders who he thinks have personally insulted him.
posted by soundguy99 at 6:35 AM on June 15 [13 favorites]


Oh, I can guarantee it's Fox News. It's always Fox News. If it's a business, and there's a tv on all day, it's going to be Fox News. Doubly so if it's in the customer waiting area. It doesn't matter if it's a muffler shop or a doctor's office. It's always Fox News.

That hasn't been my experience in New York, where businesses often have NY1 on television all day, and often enough have CNN.
posted by layceepee at 6:35 AM on June 15 [8 favorites]


and acknowledging innate Republican ownership of security

Not disagreeing with your main point, but in today’s context does anyone besides me think this fact is shit-brainingly hilarious? Pardon me, I’m going to go wash out my eyeballs with rocks.
posted by eirias at 6:39 AM on June 15 [9 favorites]


I'm a doctor in a rich Atlanta suburb, who joined a group whose office had Fox News on in the waiting room 24/7. I'm still "the new guy," and I was really scared to ruffle feathers, but one day I changed it to the Travel Channel and asked the receptionist to politely tell patients who wanted to watch the news that they can change it to any station they want except for cable news. We've had one fella get angry enough with the new policy to raise a stink, but all in all I'm very happy with the decision!
posted by Fritzle at 6:41 AM on June 15 [216 favorites]


Father Simmons
Dear Jeff Sessions, are you aware that the argument you made today from Romans 13 was a central argument of

literally every civil rights struggle in American history, back to and including being cited by opponents of the Revolutionary War. Slavery, Jim Crow, suffrage, LGBTQ rights... every time, every single solitary time that someone wants to change an unfair law, some knob says "ROMANS THIRTEEN". It's the slightly more specific version of "God works in mysterious ways", and anyone who makes it is not doing so from a place of theology or government or belief. It is only ever (and I know, I say this a lot) an excuse rather than a reason.
posted by Etrigan at 6:41 AM on June 15 [92 favorites]


Last night there was an older man standing at an intersection cheerfully waving around a sign that said TRUMP WON FAIR AND SQUARE. Sure, buddy, for various definitions of "fair" and "square" that involve being a morally and financially corrupt piece of shit.

I looked him right in the eye and flipped him off and then I had to explain to my little kids that yes, sometimes it's fine to flip people off if they are assholes.
posted by lydhre at 6:43 AM on June 15 [71 favorites]


Am wondering if anyone is profiting financially from the new concentration camps being set up. Hard to believe that opportunity would go unexploited.
posted by ZeusHumms at 6:46 AM on June 15 [7 favorites]


Even more selected Trump coverage from Aaron Rupar:
TRUMP: "Paul Manafort worked for me for a very short period of time." Says he "feels bad" for him because the alleged crimes happened years ago. Won't rule out pardoning anybody.
The Toronto Star's Daniel Dale fact-checks this, since Fox certainly won't:
Trump lies of Manafort: "Paul Manafort worked for me for a very short period of time...He worked for me, what, for 49 days or something?"

He worked for Trump for 144 days, from March 29, 2016 to August 19, 2016.
Trump's bat-shit wandering press gaggle may be intended to distract from Paul Manafort's imminent jailing, but he's not only making no sense, but he's also admitting to crimes.

(Because living under the Trump regime distorts both the sense of reality and the rule of law, I sometimes catch myself momentarily uncertain that Don Jr.'s meeting was illegal and Trump dictating a statement to cover it up makes him an accessory. It's well past the point for the media to pretend otherwise, yet here we are.)
posted by Doktor Zed at 6:46 AM on June 15 [20 favorites]


Minneapolis/St Paul-area mefites:

There is a Fathers' Day protest against family separation organized by the Minnesota Immigrant Rights Action Committee (I can vouch for them, they have been around a while):

https://twitter.com/MIRAcMN/status/1007467093627949056

It is at 2pm on Sunday at 2200 Franklin Avenue in Minneapolis - just blocks from the blue line light rail stop, on the 2 bus line, near where the 22 and the 14 cross Franklin. There should be parking in the nearby residential streets. My bet is that there will be a rally and a short march.

If you are worried about the weather, want a place to sit down before or after the event, are thinking about bathroom availability , etc, this location is right near several coffee shops, the Seward Pizza Luce and a bunch of other restaurants.

I will be attending!

If you've never been to a protest before:

0. This type of protest organized by this group is likely to be extremely safe and family friendly, for a variety of reasons ranging from local groups' strategies to the desire not to endanger undocumented and/or child attendees.

1. It's okay to go for a little while and leave, or go to the rally and not go on the march, or march for a little while and then peel off.

2. You can bring a sign if you want, but you can also show up without a sign. There are often signs available, but you also don't have to carry one if you don't want, or if you get hand cramps, etc.

3. Wear comfortable shoes and casual clothes, bring a water bottle; in Minnesota both sunscreen and an umbrella are often good accessories.

4. This protest will probably still happen even if it's raining, unless it's like a super long downpour. Check MIRAC twitter if in doubt.

If you have often thought, "I wish I could go to a protest but I am nervous about it, uncertain of norms, feel weird, etc" this is probably a good one to cut your teeth on. If you're an anxious person, you can do sort of a "stop by the rally, then go get coffee if the anxiety grows on you" thing.

If you have friends who are looking for a way to show their feelings about this monstrous policy, please share this with them. (I mean, there are lots of other things to do - donate money, call senators, write letters - but if folks have been longing to do something public, this is a thing.)
posted by Frowner at 6:50 AM on June 15 [118 favorites]


Last night there was an older man standing at an intersection cheerfully waving around a sign that said TRUMP WON FAIR AND SQUARE.

You have been blessed to encounter the wandering spirit-archetype of the Republican voter. In case you see it again: it's customary to scream OBUMMER DID 9/11 as an offering of appeasement to ensure the coming of the Lib Tears rains.
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:52 AM on June 15 [13 favorites]


Am wondering if anyone is profiting financially from the new concentration camps being set up.

Daily Beast: Defense Contractors Cashing In on Immigrant Kids’ Detention, including former CIA security contractor MVM, which actually had a guarding gig in Iraq cancelled over inadequacy protection.
posted by Doktor Zed at 6:53 AM on June 15 [29 favorites]


That was an insane interview/gaggle, even by Trumpian standards. Did he say a single goddamn thing in that mess that wasn't either demonstrably a lie or completely reprehensible? "I liked Michael [Cohen]" and "I like ratings," I guess.
posted by marshmallow peep at 6:53 AM on June 15 [8 favorites]


Am wondering if anyone is profiting financially from the new concentration camps being set up.

do you really even need to ask?
posted by entropicamericana at 6:57 AM on June 15 [26 favorites]


"I liked Michael [Cohen]"

Liked? Past tense? *removes hat*

Listen Michael, we want you to tread very fucking carefully, because what he's going to do to you is going to be fucking disgusting, you hear us?
posted by petebest at 7:00 AM on June 15 [33 favorites]


Trump lies of Manafort: "Paul Manafort worked for me for a very short period of time...He worked for me, what, for 49 days or something?"

He worked for Trump for 144 days, from March 29, 2016 to August 19, 2016.


Bannon was only campaign head for 84 days.
posted by chris24 at 7:02 AM on June 15 [14 favorites]


Am wondering if anyone is profiting financially from the new concentration camps being set up. Hard to believe that opportunity would go unexploited.
posted by ZeusHumms at 6:46 AM on June 15
[+] [!]


Fifth link in the FPP. tl/dr: a Corp called MVM from Virginia.

I heard on a podcast that raicestexas Is a site where you can see about doing something to help.
posted by From Bklyn at 7:03 AM on June 15 [4 favorites]


...in Minnesota both sunscreen and an umbrella are often good accessories.

Unlike Seattle...
/sarcasm
posted by y2karl at 7:10 AM on June 15 [2 favorites]


Something I'm wondering: Maybe family separation was intended all along as blackmail - the new immigration bill is so bad, and basically all it has that's not terrible is some weak-sauce stuff about Dreamers and "we will detain children and parents together", and that's if the wall gets funded and all this other horrible stuff gets done.

Is this just the GOP tactic? Do something genocidally monstrous and only offer to dial it back in exchange for almost-equally-monstrous concessions?

TBH I don't trust these fuckers, and I bet that whatever gets into law, they'll still be separating families because they're hateful and there's money in it, so I hope no one is fooled by this kind of bill.
posted by Frowner at 7:10 AM on June 15 [12 favorites]


Reporter: "You're defending now Kim Jong Un's human rights records. How can you do that?"

.@POTUS: "You know why? Because I don't want to see a nuclear weapon destroy you and your family."


In case you were wondering whether he imagines specific domestic enemies and their families being killed with nukes. You think he always imagines that they're somebody else's?
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:11 AM on June 15 [21 favorites]


Is this just the GOP tactic? Do something genocidally monstrous and only offer to dial it back in exchange for almost-equally-monstrous concessions?

Yes, but also they are really that monstrous. When you see immigrants as subhuman it is not only permissible but almost preferable to treat them like that, so your base won't ever even risk feeling empathy for them.

It's vile, it's a tactic, and I don't know how to fix it. Because fixing family separation IS a worthy goal for the Dems and we can't afford to treat it like a bargaining chip instead of a priority.
posted by lydhre at 7:14 AM on June 15 [13 favorites]


Reporter: "You're defending now Kim Jong Un's human rights records. How can you do that?"

.@POTUS: "You know why? Because I don't want to see a nuclear weapon destroy you and your family."


One-time Republican hero Ronald Reagan had no problem criticizing the human rights record of the Soviet Union, despite them being armed to the teeth with nuclear weapons.

Of course, that was back when Republicans were opposed to being dupes of Moscow.
posted by Gelatin at 7:15 AM on June 15 [72 favorites]




The clip also shows Stringer saying "we've made immigration is politically destabilizing"

FTFY, Stringer.
posted by Mental Wimp at 7:17 AM on June 15 [2 favorites]


"Good for us." Fuck Baquet and the Times.

Brian Stelter (CNN)
NYT editor @DeanBaquet: Trump has "made everybody care a lot about news, and I think people understand that they're seeing a big-deal news moment. And that's good for us."
posted by chris24 at 7:19 AM on June 15 [33 favorites]


When I try to explain to my status quo–embracing liberal Democrat friends that Trump used to abuse speed and shows clinical signs of cognitive impairment, I get brushed off. But then Trump goes on an extended bout of bad craziness in front of the cameras like this morning, and I have to wonder if I'm underestimating how bad this is.

Here's a worst-case scenario from Leverage creator Jon Rogers:
I was a comedian in the 90’s. I’ve seen the effect of every vice known to man. Hell, there was a club in Boston that would try to *pay* you in coke.

This is crazy - I KNOW it’s crazy - but Trump seriously looked like he was on the wrong end of a cocaine bender this morning.[...]

You don’t think I know how crazy this sounds? I know it can’t be what’s happening. Can it? Are they having senior coke parties at the White House? Is that why Guliani’s so manic and Kudlow’s Canada rant and then Kudlow had a heart attack oh shit OH SHIT—

He actually said he was up 25 hours at the Korea thing and he hates to travel to foreign countries and spends most of his weekends at his own properties and if this were ELEMENTARY Lucy Liu would raise an eyebrow and we’d cut to commercial.
Rogers, like a good comedian, is introducing points we need to consider seriously by couching them in jokey language. Trump's boast that he'd been awake for 25 hours—how, how at his age?—isn't enough to explain his bizarre behavior at the Singapore summit. If Trump relied on speed before to get him through some difficult business times (and weight gain), what was stopping him from getting a new 'scrip from Dr. Ronny Jackson? What's stopping him from getting one from Jackson's replacement?

But enough about that topic speculation—here's Mitch McConnell telling the Washington Examiner, “If the IG is through, why can’t the Mueller investigation finally wrap up? [...] What I think about the Mueller investigation is, they ought to wrap it up. It’s gone on seemingly forever and I don’t know how much more they think they can find out.”
posted by Doktor Zed at 7:21 AM on June 15 [43 favorites]


.@POTUS: "You know why? Because I don't want to see a nuclear weapon destroy you and your family."

After shushing her he goes back to bringing the boys back home from Korea:
"I have had so many people begging me: parents, mothers, fathers, daughters, sons, wherever I went, 'could you please get the remains of my boy back?' They're giving them back, nobody thought that was possible."
posted by kirkaracha at 7:25 AM on June 15 [11 favorites]


Reporter: "You're defending now Kim Jong Un's human rights records. How can you do that?"

.@POTUS: "You know why? Because I don't want to see a nuclear weapon destroy you and your family."


So, the takeaway message is....develop nukes, because then the US will appease you. Got it.
posted by nubs at 7:29 AM on June 15 [64 favorites]


here's Mitch McConnell telling the Washington Examiner, “If the IG is through, why can’t the Mueller investigation finally wrap up? [...] What I think about the Mueller investigation is, they ought to wrap it up. It’s gone on seemingly forever and I don’t know how much more they think they can find out.”

Oh, he probably knows; he just doesn't want to know.

As for the public calls to "wrap it up," Watergate lasted fouryears, Whitewater seven, and 538 doesn't even count the endless Congressional attempt to make the Benghazi molehill into a mountain.
posted by Gelatin at 7:29 AM on June 15 [35 favorites]


So, the takeaway message is....develop nukes, because then the US will appease you. Got it.

That was obvious after George W. Bush launched a war against the one member of the so-called "axis of evil" that didn't have a functional nuclear program.
posted by Gelatin at 7:30 AM on June 15 [17 favorites]


Also, let me just say fuck Glenn Greenwald, now and forever. You go on Hannity, you lose any right to say that you are part of the left.
posted by NoxAeternum at 7:34 AM on June 15 [51 favorites]


I want to note that the internment camp we've seen so far from journalists is for boys - to my knowledge, we haven't seen one that houses the girls yet. It may seem like a small problem to some, but it is almost guaranteed that the camp holding girls is not properly equipped to handle menstruation, let alone at a large scale. When talking to your representatives about keeping families together, please take a second to also ask them about this issue. For example: "What is the Senator/Congressperson doing to ensure that menstruating girls held in these camps have access to adequate facilities and supplies like pads, tampons, clean clothing, and private bathrooms? Do contracts with private vendors require the vendor to provide a minimum standard of care with respect to menstruation? When will the Senator/Congressperson introduce legislation addressing this issue? Has the Senator/Congressperson met with any groups to ensure that these supplies are provided by private donors in the interim?"
posted by melissasaurus at 7:35 AM on June 15 [113 favorites]


Also whatever cash the foundation had on hand isn't stuffed under a mattress; the Foundation would have been making money from its float.

What is this float you speak of? There was no float or at least very little.

You don't have to speculate. You can read the annual 990PF forms yourself. The Trump Foundation was quite tiny for a so-called billionaire. Less than half the money contributed to it was from Trump's pocket, which is highly unusual for a private foundation.

Most years the foundation took in less than a million dollars. Over its entire 20 or so year span, it only took in $18 million of which only $8 million was Trump's money. Many years Trump put not a dime of his own money into his foundation.

The foundation balance was usually less than $1 million and it may as well have been under a mattress because total annual investment income was a fraction of 1%, a couple thousand dollars a year. It was likely kept in a plain old business checking account for easy disbursement as a slush fund.
posted by JackFlash at 7:36 AM on June 15 [12 favorites]






I'm a doctor in a rich Atlanta suburb, who joined a group whose office had Fox News on in the waiting room 24/7. I'm still "the new guy," and I was really scared to ruffle feathers, but one day I changed it to the Travel Channel and asked the receptionist to politely tell patients who wanted to watch the news that they can change it to any station they want except for cable news. We've had one fella get angry enough with the new policy to raise a stink, but all in all I'm very happy with the decision!

I love my doctor at least partially because they keep the TV on HGTV, so people of all political stripes can watch other people tear down walls and argue about farm sinks.

A tall friend of mine (who could reach the waiting room TV at the car place) was personally thanked by another customer when he reached up and changed Fox to a sports channel. He doesn't even like sports, he just figured anything was better. And it was.

I think more of us should take the initiative on this, in the name of "nobody needs to be stressed by news while they're getting an oil change." You don't have to put it on MSNBC. Just put on a nature documentary or a cooking show.

If more waiting rooms had Great British Baking Show on, we might be a kinder, better nation.
posted by emjaybee at 7:41 AM on June 15 [95 favorites]


REPORTER: Did you dictate Don Jr's misleading statement about Trump Tower meeting?
TRUMP: "Let's not talk about it. You know what that is? It's irrelevant. It's a statement to the NYT. The phony, failing NYT. It's not a statement to a high tribunal of judges."


@nycsouthpaw
“When a defendant voluntarily offers an explanation or voluntarily makes some statement tending to show his innocence and it is later shown that the defendant knew that the statement or explanation was false, the jury may consider this as showing a consciousness of guilt on the part of the defendant since it is reasonable to infer that an innocent person does not usually find it necessary to invent or fabricate an explanation or statement tending to establish his innocence.” -typical jury instructions on false exculpatory statements
posted by chris24 at 7:46 AM on June 15 [86 favorites]


I love my doctor at least partially because they keep the TV on HGTV, so people of all political stripes can watch other people tear down walls and argue about farm sinks.

My psychiatrist's large practice does this as well, and fortunately everyone can scoff at professional brand influencers building luxury yurts in Bali, regardless of Personal Issues.
posted by chesty_a_arthur at 7:47 AM on June 15 [20 favorites]


I’ve got the infrared transmitter and remote app on my phone so I can change the channel on some TVs surreptitiously. Highly recommended!
posted by rabbitrabbit at 7:49 AM on June 15 [55 favorites]


I have a number of questions that aren't really worth answering since Sessions is probably acting in bad faith, but:

Would Sessions' bible quote now constitute the policy of the entire Justice Department? Has it been used by the Justice Department before? By what process did he decide to use it as an argument, and why now? It's such a vague, general quote - if this is so core to how Sessions sees laws why was it not brought up during confirmation rather than now?
posted by lazugod at 7:59 AM on June 15 [4 favorites]


If more waiting rooms had Great British Baking Show on, we might be a kinder, better nation.

This is such a genius idea I am thisclose to starting a Kickstarter to fund a DVD-of-the-show drive to send to every waiting room in the country as an option for lobby screening.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:03 AM on June 15 [27 favorites]


Why people should not be surprised about Sessions
“Ultimately, freedom of speech is about ascertaining the truth,” Sessions, an Alabama Republican, told Horowitz’s audience on Nov. 14, 2014. “And if you don’t believe there’s a truth, you don’t believe in truth, if you’re an utter secularist, then how do we operate this government? How can we form a democracy of the kind I think you and I believe in… I do believe that we are a nation that, without God, there is no truth, and it’s all about power, ideology, advancement, agenda, not doing the public service.”
posted by adamvasco at 8:09 AM on June 15 [6 favorites]


Would Sessions' bible quote now constitute the policy of the entire Justice Department? Has it been used by the Justice Department before? By what process did he decide to use it as an argument, and why now? It's such a vague, general quote - if this is so core to how Sessions sees laws why was it not brought up during confirmation rather than now?

And why wasn't it used to defend the ACA or any laws that protect marginalized folk from discrimination?

The answer is pretty obvious.
posted by anem0ne at 8:11 AM on June 15 [24 favorites]


The Vox video is 404-ing.
posted by BigBrooklyn at 8:12 AM on June 15


I do believe that we are a nation that, without God, there is no truth, and it’s all about power

On the one hand, it seems obvious to me that in order to believe this, to really, truly feel this as true, you have to lack almost all empathy and feeling of connection with other people. If the only two guiding principles you can perceive are either blind obedience to authority or naked pursuit of power, it is because you do not have an internal moral compass of your own. No feelings of warmth, of compassion, of love to guide your beliefs and choices, just a cold, barren place where fear looms so large that you try to fill it with power. The world only makes sense if you can place yourself above others; it’s only safe if you can hurt others.

And on the other hand, this would mean fully one third of this country is so damaged and hollow as to be unrecognizable.

There are no good hands.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:19 AM on June 15 [32 favorites]


If more waiting rooms had Great British Baking Show on, we might be a kinder, better nation.

Troof. When we had to bring in my old man to Emerg on Christmas Eve, we changed the channel to the fireplace broadcast. That did a LOT to improve the mood of the room. (And why don't they have the fireplace channel as a permanent thing, anyway?)

This mindless banter is brought to you by my brain itching for the news that Manafort is going to jail. What is the freakin' holdup? *lights cigarette*
posted by Capt. Renault at 8:19 AM on June 15 [15 favorites]


Regarding waiting room TVs. I’m just a lowly resident and therefore have no authority to comment on such shit even though it makes me crazy when I see Fox News on in the waiting room I have to pass through frequently. I’ve never actually asked who controls it but I assume the patients can change it if they want because even though it’s on Fox News a lot, sometimes it’s on something nicer like a music channel. (In fact it seems like cable news has been on less often than usual these days, which is encouraging, although it’s still on way more than I am comfortable with.)

My point being, dear patients, YES PLEASE request/ demand/ initiate channel changes! In lots of cases you’re probably the one with the most power in that particular situation. And if enough people complain maybe it’ll lead to more proactive channel- choosing by whoever runs the office and may simply not care what’s on or realize why it’s disgusting.
posted by robotdevil at 8:20 AM on June 15 [16 favorites]


Perry Bacon & Dhrumil Mehta, 538: How Trump’s Popularity Is Holding Up, By State
It often seems as if American politics is split between two immutable camps: Trump loyalists and Trump haters, and neither group ever changes its mind about anything. But the data here suggests more fluidity — and in Trump’s case, the movement is against him. Trump does have near-ironclad support (close to 90 percent approval, according to Gallup) among self-described Republicans nationally. But a Gallup poll conducted last year found that only about 40 percent of U.S. adults identify themselves as either Republicans or leaning toward the GOP. So that remaining 60 percent of the U.S. that identifies as Democrats and independents is likely where Trump has grown more unpopular.

...

Eight of the 10 states...where Trump’s net approval declined the most are places where the president lost in 2016. But his popularity has plunged more in ruby-red Utah (-27 points), Oklahoma (-23) and Montana (-21) than in swingy Colorado (-17) and blue California (-15). (Trump of course started with pretty lackluster numbers California and Colorado, so he had more room to fall in the red states.) That said, his numbers have held up much better in states such as South Carolina (-11), West Virginia (-10) and South Dakota (-7).

...

The 10 states were Trump’s numbers are closest to where they were in January 2017 include Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, Mississippi and South Carolina...these are fairly inelastic states overall, meaning that they have very few swing voters. All five states have large black populations that overwhelmingly vote Democratic and white populations that overwhelmingly vote Republican. Take Georgia, for example: Trump started off there with 53 percent approval and 35 percent disapproval, and it looks like the state’s Democrats have united in hating him over the last 17 months (taking him to 44 percent disapproval) but Republicans haven’t moved, so his approval rate is at 51 percent.
Their analysis is mostly based on state-by-state chronological data from Morning Consult.
posted by nangar at 8:20 AM on June 15 [21 favorites]


First, they came for the asylum seekers.
Then, they came for the citizens.

From Elizabeth McLaughlin, One of our followers sent us this letter she received TODAY from Homeland Security after applying for a passport. She is a US citizen.

She wrote: “I served my country proudly in the United States Army. I am a college graduate. I have a BS in social psychology and was working towards another degree until hurricane Harvey hit. I have worked several verifiable jobs . . . I have recently been employed as a counselor and a highly respected Parole Officer and Case Manager. It seems to me that the letter is implying that they believe that I am not a US citizen . . . My wife and I are not sure what this means in trump's America. I am getting my affairs in order quickly just in case they come [for] me"

ICE isn’t just coming for folks crossing the border. They’re coming for ANYONE they believe may not belong here, no matter how spurious the facts. Born near the US-Mexico border in a midwife birth that delayed the filing of your birth certificate? Get ready. Fascism is here.

Fascism is here. It's been here for a while.
posted by Dashy at 8:26 AM on June 15 [126 favorites]


...in Minnesota both sunscreen and an umbrella are often good accessories.

Unlike Seattle...
/sarcasm


Joke is fair, but unlike Seattle, Minnesota is showing a protest against family separation and I'm not seeing one in Seattle. I'm not seeing any in Washington state at all, and it's really bothering me.

When the Muslim ban hit, people clogged the airports and the streets. Donations started flowing to groups fighting the whole mess. We were all on a hair trigger at that point, so people reacted. This is...I don't want to get into comparing one atrocity to another, but this seems at least comparably awful. And yet where are we?

I don't have the skills to organize a protest. I don't remotely know where to begin. But I know those people are out there, I know it can be done because we've seen it again and again. This shit should have us out in the streets. Where is everyone?
posted by scaryblackdeath at 8:28 AM on June 15 [10 favorites]


darkstar: "A Republican lawmaker is being criticized for saying "there aren't enough white kids to go around" when discussing integration in schools at an event in northern Arizona. "

It should be pointed out that the AZ GOP and gov Ducey have called for Stringer to resign.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:35 AM on June 15 [6 favorites]


I have a number of questions that aren't really worth answering since Sessions is probably acting in bad faith, but:

No, he's not.

When the representative of the Powers That Be steps forward and cites Romans 13 ("The powers that be are ordained of God.") he is very sincerely saying "respect my authority or you will go to Hell."

Romans 13 says nothing good or bad about any particular government action, past, present, future, or hypothetical. It just says "obey Caesar."

And when Caesar says it, it means "obey me."

There is nothing more to it.
posted by ocschwar at 8:35 AM on June 15 [30 favorites]


Judge hasn't decided where Manafort goes, but Manafort has pleaded not guilty to witness tampering
posted by Twain Device at 8:37 AM on June 15 [1 favorite]


Holy SHIT, that letter. "You were born near the Mexican border so document your entire life or we'll refuse to acknowledge your citizenship."

The surprise is more that they've reached this point so quickly than that they want to do it (because they were never coy about the racism, just gaslighting-ly defensive about getting called out on it) but still. Fucking hell.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:37 AM on June 15 [52 favorites]


Regarding that letter that Elizabeth McLaughlin received - The very first bit of identification that they are asking for are baptism / confirmation / other ceremony information. Expressed differently, the very first question they are using to determine citizenship is based on religion.

Outside of that, I'm a US citizen who was born in KY, and I couldn't answer all of these questions. This line of questioning is something that could easily be used to arbitrarily deny passports or even citizenship, as it's virtually impossible for many to answer all of them, and no matter how much you answer, it's up to the reviewer to make the call.
posted by MysticMCJ at 8:38 AM on June 15 [90 favorites]


It should be pointed out that the AZ GOP and gov Ducey have called for Stringer to resign.

Vote to expel him you spineless cowards.
posted by Definitely Not Sean Spicer at 8:39 AM on June 15 [17 favorites]


The very first bit of identification that they are asking for are baptism / confirmation / other ceremony information. Expressed differently, the very first question they are using to determine citizenship is based on religion.

The historical comparison you're thinking about right now is appropriate.
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:39 AM on June 15 [49 favorites]


nangar: "Their analysis is mostly based on state-by-state chronological data from Morning Consult."

Morning Consult tends to be Trump leaning, but it's still worthwhile looking at these for trend lines.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:44 AM on June 15








A Man, A Jail, Manafort
posted by tonycpsu at 8:48 AM on June 15 [85 favorites]


"SCOOP: A fmr top CIA interrogator is training ICE's deportation agents in interrogation methods, documents show.

He was hired *3 days* after the Trump admin authorized its policy of separating undocumented families caught crossing the border."
posted by lazugod at 8:50 AM on June 15 [49 favorites]


Happy Mana-Friday!
posted by Fleebnork at 8:50 AM on June 15 [3 favorites]


Cook rating updates:

TX-32 (Sessions) | Lean R => Toss-up

and governor races:

IA (R – Reynolds) |​ Likely R => Toss-up
MA (R – Baker) | Likely R => Solid R
NH (R – Sununu) | Lean R => Likely R
OH (R – OPEN) |​ Lean R => Toss Up
PA (D – Wolf) | Lean D => Likely D
VT (R – Scott) | Likely R => Solid R
posted by Chrysostom at 8:50 AM on June 15 [16 favorites]


Yay, a consequence!
posted by Space Kitty at 8:51 AM on June 15 [52 favorites]



Inside Casa Padre, the converted Walmart where the U.S. is holding nearly 1,500 immigrant children
(Michael E. Miller, Emma Brown and Aaron C. Davis for Washington Post, June 14, 2018)
BROWNSVILLE, Tex. — For more than a year, the old Walmart along the Mexican border here has been a mystery to those driving by on the highway. In place of the supercenter’s trademark logo hangs a curious sign: “Casa Padre.”

But behind the sliding doors is a bustling city unto itself, equipped with classrooms, recreation centers and medical examination rooms. Casa Padre now houses more than 1,400 immigrant boys in federal custody. While most are teenagers who entered the United States alone, dozens of others — often younger — were forcibly separated from their parents at the border by a new Trump administration “zero tolerance” policy.
Emphasis mine, because this element is ALL ON TRUMP. The follow-up (or stunning lack there-of) is on Congress.

And it looks like they turned off the extra AC and spruced the place up for a public visit. Now get someone to talk to the kids a week later and see how presentable it is then.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:53 AM on June 15 [28 favorites]


Earlier this morning [via Alex Moe, ABC News]:
Trump just said he is looking at both immigration bills the House will vote on next week but says he wouldn’t sign the more moderate one...GOP leadership says they’ve been working hand in glove with administration on the two immigration bills
Meanwhile, in Congress right now [via Manu Raju, CNN]:
Mass confusion in the House over Trump’s comments putting down the GOP’s compromise immigration bill. Several Republican members think he was talking about the wrong bill and are asking for a clarification from WH. “I don’t know what bill he was talking about,” one R said.
Spoiler alert: neither did Trump.
posted by cjelli at 8:54 AM on June 15 [32 favorites]


"Casa Padre" is really odd spanish (literally "House Father"), akin to saying "Mucho bueno". Weird.
posted by Omon Ra at 8:59 AM on June 15 [4 favorites]


This shit should have us out in the streets. Where is everyone?

I’ve been looking for a Bay Area protest and so far, unsuccessful. I don’t know if people are just protested out or what.
posted by greermahoney at 9:00 AM on June 15 [2 favorites]


Where are the girls they are holding? That's what's worrying me. Already sold to traffickers? Are all the boys accounted for? They been sold too? My heart breaks. How can anyone be this evil?
posted by kanata at 9:02 AM on June 15 [20 favorites]


We are definitely not a Trump cult (Alexandra Petri, WaPo)
We are not praising him because we are rudderless and terrified and adrift and have lost sight of our principles. We are praising him because he is right about everything, and he always golfs under par, and his children are gorgeous and deserve power, and his hands are of course the right size. Those who cross him will come to rue it. […]

To those who say his administration is corrupt, I say, that is just what the people who report facts want you to believe, and we know what Donald Trump thinks about them. To those who say, wait, didn’t EPA Administrator Scott Pruitt use government employees to find him moisturizer from a hotel, I say, as House Speaker Paul Ryan did: What, I literally cannot hear you, who is Scott Pruitt, probably this is a misunderstanding, I know nothing about any of this! […]

There is nothing inconsistent or unprincipled in our embrace of this man, because he embodies every virtue, except virtues we have previously said we valued — like marital fidelity and probity and not making excuses for white supremacists. Speaking of which, we have literally no idea why all of these white supremacists are showing up now, and it has nothing to do with Trump, unless it does, in which case, it is a good thing. But they do not represent us, except in the literal sense that they have been nominated to be our representatives, and speak for us.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:02 AM on June 15 [38 favorites]


L.A. is doing a lot. We have some really heavy hitting immigrant rights groups here.
posted by Sophie1 at 9:02 AM on June 15 [3 favorites]


@PopeHat:
Manfort's detention is an opportunity to make a point about conspiratorial thinking regarding prosecutions. Claims by Team Trump that the prosecutions here are a political conspiracy -- like Dinesh D'Souza's claims -- aren't unusual. They're the norm in white collar cases.

In my experience, "privileged" people -- affluent or relatively affluent, college educated, with "good" backgrounds -- generally experience criminal prosecution as conspiratorial. These are not conspiracy-minded people to begin with; they're regular people. But they perceive the standard operation of the criminal justice system as conspiratorial. They see common developments in the case as evidence that they are being singled out for special treatment by a malicious foe within the prosecutor's office.

They look at the routine actual operation -- not what they show on TV -- of the criminal justice system, and think "this is Kafkaesque and sick and outrageous and unfair. There has to be a reason. They must be out to get ME." They cannot conceive that the system, in a country they love that has given them so much, treats people this way regularly. So they conclude that prosecutors have a bias against them or are being directed by powerful people with bias. How else could they be treated like this?

By contrast, when I've represented poor people -- people who grew up in neighborhoods with frequent police contact, people of color, etc. -- they do not see conspiracy. They see the things done to them as the system working as usual.

In my mind, this is similar to the psychology that leads us to JFK & 9/11 conspiracy theories. A malevolent conspiracy is easier, more comfortable, to believe than believing this can just happen.
posted by Atom Eyes at 9:05 AM on June 15 [113 favorites]


Now he's going to be... Man-a-Cell.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:05 AM on June 15 [4 favorites]


Judge Orders Paul Manafort Detained Amid Witness Tampering Allegations (NPR, June 15, 2018)
A federal judge ruled Friday that Donald Trump's former campaign chairman, Paul Manafort, must be jailed ahead of his trial in connection with alleged witness tampering.

Manafort, prosecutors and others were due in court in Washington, D.C., following charges that Manafort and a Russian associate may have asked future witnesses in the case to lie to the jury.
...
His lobbying firm, Black, Manafort, Stone and Kelly — the Stone was Roger Stone, who is also reportedly under investigation by the special counsel — was included in a 1992 report by the Center for Public Integrity titled "The Torturers' Lobby." (subtitle: "How Human Rights-Abusing Nations Are Represented in Washington" -- on Scribd)
He's going to jail because he can't be trusted to not tamper with witnesses if left on his own -- between Feb. 23 and April, Manafort and Kilimnik "knowingly and intentionally attempted to corruptly persuade another person, to wit: Persons D1 and D2, with intent to influence, delay, and prevent the testimony of any person in an official proceeding." This is after he was co-writing an op-ed while out on bail in November 2017 with a Russian who has ties to the Russian intelligence service and prosecutors tried to revoke his bail back in December 2017. It's as if there's something or some things he really doesn't want coming to light.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:08 AM on June 15 [16 favorites]


“I don’t know what bill he was talking about,” one R said.

Here's a clue, doofus. He wants the one that gives him the most money for a wall. The rest is uninteresting, boring details he doesn't care about.
posted by JackFlash at 9:08 AM on June 15 [7 favorites]


"SCOOP: A fmr top CIA interrogator is training ICE's deportation agents in interrogation methods, documents show.

I think it’s important to describe these things accurately, in plain English, so: they are training ICE agents to torture people.
posted by schadenfrau at 9:09 AM on June 15 [89 favorites]


I hope they perp walk him so the Post can run with MANAFORT IN MANACLES
posted by uncleozzy at 9:10 AM on June 15 [15 favorites]


Three US marshals led Manafort out of the courtroom into the prisoner holding area immediately after the judge's ruling. He was not placed in handcuffs. Before he disappeared through the door, turned toward his wife and supporters and gave a stilted wave.

Minutes later, a marshal returned to give his wife, Kathleen, still standing in the courtroom's front row, Manafort's wallet, belt and the burgundy tie he wore Friday.


I hope they thoroughly checked that tie for Manafort larvae and pupae.
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:12 AM on June 15 [13 favorites]


I hope he starts spilling the beans so we can get the headline MANA TAPPED.
posted by Faint of Butt at 9:12 AM on June 15 [29 favorites]


@ZoeTillman: Judge to Paul Manafort: "You have abused the trust placed in you six months ago." On rejected Manafort's lawyer's request for a clearer "no contact" order in lieu of going to jail: "This is not middle school. I can't take his cell phone."

Greg Sargent, How the conventions of political journalism help spread Trump’s lies, in which pretty much the entire press corps lines up to spread lies about the IG report.
Trump’s allies have widely cited the inspector general’s findings about the now-infamous texts between an FBI agent and lawyer — which do show animus towards Trump’s candidacy — as not just proof of anti-Trump bias at the FBI during the Clinton investigation, but also to bolster Trump’s argument that the Mueller probe into Russia-Trump campaign collusion is suspect.

Many news accounts inadvertently grant these arguments credibility, not just by quoting them, but also by claiming as fact that the conduct in question actually does lend support to those arguments. Yes, they also convey that the inspector general’s overall conclusion undercuts the Trumpian narrative. But the straddle itself is the problem. It showcases a convention often relied upon in political journalism — the use of the “lends fodder” formulation to float false claims alongside true ones — that has to go.
Trump's batshit press conference this morning (which is worth watching if you can stomach it instead of quotes, to get the full effect) is another example: hundreds of tweets quoting his unrebutted nonsense.
posted by zachlipton at 9:13 AM on June 15 [28 favorites]


[I'm gonna give y'all like three more minutes to get the Manafort puns out of your system and then I need you to button it up.]
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:13 AM on June 15 [72 favorites]


As The Scandals Mount, Conservatives Turn On Scott Pruitt (NPR, June 14, 2018)
"PRUITT BAD JUDGMENT HURTING @POTUS, GOTTA GO," tweeted influential conservative talk radio host and Fox News anchor Laura Ingraham on Wednesday.

"It just doesn't look good. If you want to drain the swamp, you got to have people in it who forego personal benefits and don't send your aides around doing personal errands on the taxpayer dime, otherwise you make everyone else look bad," said Ingraham on her radio show on Wednesday.

"All these things that are coming are really not good things," said Sen. James Inhofe, R-Okla. in an interview with Ingraham. "I've kind of taken the position that if that doesn't stop, I'm going to be forced to be in a position where I'm going to say, 'Scott you're not doing your job.'"
It looks like Inhofe is a firm believer in the McCain school of politics - Being Very Concerned is Good Enough.

DEEDS NOT WORDS.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:13 AM on June 15 [17 favorites]


(manafart)
posted by Atom Eyes at 9:16 AM on June 15 [38 favorites]


Like MANA from heaven! Made it in just under the wire!!!!
posted by Sophie1 at 9:17 AM on June 15 [6 favorites]


I’ve been living here 13 years and I still do not understand why the fuck MA can’t seem to run a credible Democrat for governor. Why are we giving up already, goddamnit??
posted by lydhre at 9:17 AM on June 15 [6 favorites]


"It just doesn't look good. If you want to drain the swamp, you got to have people in it who forego personal benefits and don't send your aides around doing personal errands on the taxpayer dime, otherwise you make everyone else look bad," said Ingraham on her radio show on Wednesday.

Yeah, it's like, so weird that Pruitt just showed up one day at the EPA and started spending taxpayer money on his own aggrandizement. It isn't like Trump had anything to do with his presence there at all.
posted by Gelatin at 9:18 AM on June 15 [14 favorites]


I hope he starts spilling the beans so we can get the headline MANA TAPPED.

MANA-FLIPPED, surely.

Re: Pruitt, EPA this morning sent out a picture of him signing a new Clean Water Act rule at the Resolute Desk next to a smiling Kumquat In Chief, so the Audience Of One is still happy with him.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:18 AM on June 15 [4 favorites]


In my experience, "privileged" people -- affluent or relatively affluent, college educated, with "good" backgrounds -- generally experience criminal prosecution as conspiratorial. These are not conspiracy-minded people to begin with; they're regular people. But they perceive the standard operation of the criminal justice system as conspiratorial. They see common developments in the case as evidence that they are being singled out for special treatment by a malicious foe within the prosecutor's office.

Atom Eyes: thank you for the link to that tweetstorm by @PopeHat. (I'm gradually losing my hatred for tweetstorms. See what this administration does to people!) I would add that this kind of thinking, seeing Evil Conspiracies To Take A Good Man Down, applies to some of the men revealed to be harassers/abusers as well. How very dare this happen to Affluent White Men? Roger Stone did it! Meanie feminists falsely accuse! No, YOU did it, Handsy, and are suffering Consequences maybe for the first time in your life.

I am convinced that if the same standards for wrongdoing (or alleged wrongdoing) applied to white people who are middle-class and up, we'd see: Major, major criminal justice reform, and a lot less corruption.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 9:20 AM on June 15 [18 favorites]


Joke is fair, but unlike Seattle, Minnesota is showing a protest against family separation and I'm not seeing one in Seattle
There was a protest just a few days ago at the Federal Detention Center in SeaTac, attended by Governor Inslee, Attorney General Ferguson, and U.S. Rep. Jayapal (among others).
posted by mbrubeck at 9:21 AM on June 15 [3 favorites]


P.S.: He's Manafucked, and will hopefully be Manaflipping like a pancake soon!
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 9:22 AM on June 15 [11 favorites]


An American editorial cartoonist has been fired for skewering Trump. He likely won’t be the last. (Ann Telnaes, WaPo)
I did worry that editorial cartooning would be the next target of a president so enamored of visuals. That didn’t happen. In retrospect, I’m fairly certain it’s because Trump doesn’t read; he gets all his news from the television (Fox News) and uses Twitter as his megaphone. And I’m guessing his staff doesn’t cut out cartoons and tape them to the White House refrigerator so he will see them as he goes for his regular two scoops of ice cream. But with the firing of Pittsburgh Post-Gazette cartoonist Rob Rogers, we now see that suppressing a free press can be accomplished without an authoritarian president’s orders. Michael Cohen isn’t the only “fixer” Trump has at his disposal.

Rogers has been the editorial cartoonist for the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette for more than 25 years. Most working cartoonists have had an occasional idea spiked by his or her editor. But in the past few weeks, editorial director Keith Burris and publisher John Robinson Block have refused to publish six of Rogers’s cartoons, all criticizing Trump or his policies. Block and Burris have also rejected many of Rogers’s rough sketch ideas for several months.

This wasn’t the first time Block has used his position to defend President Trump’s actions; in January he demanded an editorial run in the Post-Gazette and the Toledo Blade (where he is also the publisher) supporting Trump’s use of the term “shithole countries.”
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 9:23 AM on June 15 [60 favorites]


So is it now a race for Mueller to get Manafort to testify what trump knew or was told and for trump to drop a pardon? Seems a chicken/egg thing happening with him. Reporters are also saying he’ll get moved to a local DC-area county jail, which should be much more interesting for him than the federal lockup.
posted by Burhanistan at 9:23 AM on June 15 [2 favorites]


@MarshallCohen: In addition to the Manafort news, Mueller scored a small win today in the lesser-watched Internet Research Agency case. Judge rejected an attempt by one of the Russian companies to review the grand jury instructions, which they claimed were faulty. The judge passed.

Trump, spewing nonsense at his weird press gaggle thing, and demonstrating he's swallowed every bad-faith argument about the IG report completely: "If you read the IG report I’ve been totally exonerated. As far as I’m concerned"

@adamdavidson:
Today, with coverage of the OIG report and the bad faith lying response by Trump and his people, I feel, ever more strongly, that the media has a real problem in telling the big, clear, obvious story of our age.

The President is under investigation for the most shocking of crimes. There is ample proof that his campaign, probably with his knowledge, colluded with Russia in many ways. He and his sycophants fight this by lying. The OIG report is NOT an important referendum on Mueller in any way. No reading of it could suggest it is. Yet, wise to news people's tired practices, Trump and Republicans know that they can fuel yet another day of baseless debate about Mueller.

I don't have an obvious solution, other than don't publish absurd stories like normally good @pdacosta's piece today. And don't publish Trump and GOP lying assertions as fact. But how do we cover a deep, clear story that doesn't have the daily incremental beats we crave. This is why we created @planetmoney. It is a model, I think, of how to do engaging, exciting, ongoing reporting about deep stories that aren't well told in shorter, incremental ways. One message to reporters is this: your editors are pushing you for daily incrementalism and volume. But you will become more famous and more successful if you actually give your readers, listeners, viewers substantive, deep, context-rich reporting.

I have done thousands of incremental stories in my career. But it's the handful of deep, long-term, non-incremental stories that really helped people make sense of complexity that have given me far more opportunities, advancement, even money. So, reporters: ignore your editors! Think of your readers, listeners, viewers. They don't want incrementalism. They don't want to read about stupid lies about a report. They want you to help them make sense of the world.
----

@TomNamako:
You can hear Trump calling a female reporter off-screen “obnoxious” here:

He points to someone.

“Quiet," he says.

[lots of reporter cross-talk]

Trump leans over and says to someone, “She’s so…she’s so obnoxious.”
He was reportedly pointing at Weijia Jiang (CBS News): "If asking tough questions makes her obnoxious, so be it."
posted by zachlipton at 9:25 AM on June 15 [72 favorites]


So, with this talk of Cohen maybe cooperating (which is seen by some as a signal to Trump) it makes me wonder how much information he could be compelled to testify about if he did get a pardon. We may get a lot of court time trying to figure out the limits of the 5th amendment.
posted by azpenguin at 9:25 AM on June 15 [1 favorite]


I'm an atheist and definite believer in separating church and state. If a holy book had to be a basis for law, well, the Bible is full of contradictions and lots of awful ideas, so pass on that.

All that said, the gist of its instructions for treating foreigners when they visit your country is pretty consistent. There's not just some out-of-context quote where you squint and maybe the bleeding hearts are right; there's plenty of Isiah, Leviticus, Exodus, and New Testament passages that exhort complete, total hospitality. (The text also endorses violent xenophobia against the foreigners not in your country -- like I said, inconsistent and often awful.)

I see a similar consistency to Jesus's stance on the class system. Although he doesn't outline some kind of massive social safety net program (probably because the concept wasn't around for him to consider), he's very obviously against wealth accumulation and in favor of helping the poor. He says it over and over; he couldn't be clearer.

So bearing those things in mind, along with my awareness of right-wing alternate-reality-generation mechanisms, something I've pondered a lot lately is: Why haven't conservatives successfully appropriated Jesus in full? It may seem obvious that they have -- their Jesus is white, they talk about him constantly, and "Christian" has long ago become wrapped up, identity-wise, with "conservative".

But what I'm getting at is this: When someone has a bumper sticker saying "Who would Jesus bomb?", or someone brings Jesus into a conversation about how we should treat people in desperate circumstances, you immediately know the subtext. You know you're dealing with someone whose is basically liberal and whose Jesus is basically progressive. Conservatives never slap a "Who would Jesus bomb?" sticker on their car as a show of support for bombing countries. A poster saying "Jesus opposed high taxes on the job-creating rich" or "Jesus thought poor people were lazy and ungrateful" is recognizable satire even in Red America. (I think? It's not an experiment I'm willing to try. This phenomenon is fuzzier if we use the word "Bible" rather than "Jesus", so maybe that's key.)

By contrast, conservatives really do have an alternate-reality version of Martin Luther King Jr. If people are talking about Black Lives Matter and someone says "I believe that MLK would say..." you can't be sure how they'll end the sentence. Is their MLK going to be the Republican version whose entire message, apparently, was "Enough with the race stuff"? Or the real-life social and economic radical who obviously would support today's racial civil rights movements?

The discrepancy gets weirder when you consider that MLK was of course so much more recent, which means (1) that we can be even more confident, history-wise, about the things he said and did (I think "Jesus" may well be an amalgam of different messiah-type figures) and (2) that American conservatism was around to vilify him during his lifetime.

That even conservatives know how mixing their philosophies with "Jesus" requires shameless rationalization and never making eye contact with their own deity... it's kind of bewildering. But as long as it remains the case, it's a powerful rhetorical tool in our pockets.
posted by InTheYear2017 at 9:26 AM on June 15 [18 favorites]


To reiterate: I will eat a gluten free Thing with Words on it if I’m wrong, but: Manafort can’t flip without risking the lives of everyone he loves, so he’s not flipping. He’s going to jail for the rest of his life. Silently.

I am convinced that if the same standards for wrongdoing (or alleged wrongdoing) applied to white people who are middle-class and up, we'd see: Major, major criminal justice reform, and a lot less corruption.

Agreed. But also I think the various supremacies, and the resultant hundreds of years of crimes against humanity, are the ur-corruptions in this country. They are the root. Once you have the mental machinery in place to justify that level of obscenity, everything else is a piece of cake.

Time to rip it out by the root.
posted by schadenfrau at 9:28 AM on June 15 [11 favorites]


There was a protest just a few days ago at the Federal Detention Center in SeaTac, attended by Governor Inslee, Attorney General Ferguson, and U.S. Rep. Jayapal (among others).

1) Glad that happened
2) How do people know these things are happening so they know when to show up?
posted by scaryblackdeath at 9:28 AM on June 15 [3 favorites]


Walter Shaub (fmr Dir. Office Government Ethics)
Sen. Graham just admitted on CNN to Kate Bolduan that the goal of ripping terrified children from their desperate parents is deterrence. I’ve been saying all along that the plan is to commit sufficiently horrific atrocities to scare people away. This is state sponsored terrorism.
Kate Bolduan: The President could fix this with a phone call.

Sen. Lindsey Graham: Yeah but that just incentivizes more illegal immigration.

Bolduan: Are you sure?

Graham: Yeah I'm sure. I'm sure that people are going to be less likely to bring their kids to America if they get separated than if they live together and get released into the country.
posted by chris24 at 9:31 AM on June 15 [80 favorites]


"If you read the IG report I’ve been totally exonerated. As far as I’m concerned"


Yeah, well, as far as he’s concerned, he’s also been totally exonerated by The Story of Sinuhe, the Apple Software License Agreement, the assembly instructions for the Billy bookcase, and that one cloud shaped like a poodle, so...
posted by darkstar at 9:34 AM on June 15 [32 favorites]


Graham: Yeah I'm sure. I'm sure that people are going to be less likely to bring their kids to America if they get separated than if they live together and get released into the country.

“If you don't like me working with President Trump to make the world a better place, I don't give a shit,” Graham said Friday morning during an interview with CNN.

OK, then I won't give a shit if you get what you deserve.
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:35 AM on June 15 [63 favorites]


2) How do people know these things are happening so they know when to show up?

Here in NY, in addition to following organizations and organizers doing this work on twitter and other social media platforms, many groups also use opt-in based text messaging systems.

I got a text yesterday from United We Dream in anticipation of a SCOTUS ruling on the Muslim ban - it included links to info about protests.
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 9:35 AM on June 15 [2 favorites]


I’ve been looking for a Bay Area protest and so far, unsuccessful. I don’t know if people are just protested out or what.

I cannot link to Twitter from here, but Rebecca Solnit is helping to organize a protest today at 4PM, at the ICE field office at 630 Sansome Street in San Francisco.
posted by suelac at 9:36 AM on June 15 [16 favorites]



1) Glad that happened
2) How do people know these things are happening so they know when to show up?



To be fair, in Minnesota no one organized anything for the national #FamiliesBelongTogether day, I think ours is basically that, only on a weekend and with a little more notice.

1. Next time there is a national day of protest and no one here has organized anything, I personally am going to organize something, even if it is just me and, like, three people. Better something than nothing. I would do this by plugging into the "national day of..." infrastructure and just posting my event, keeping an eye on it to make sure that merging it with a bigger one wouldn't make sense. Before I posted my event, I would line up friends who would go with me so that it would be at least a tiny group.

2. If you want to plug into something, start by following the facebook or twitter of whatever local immigrants' rights orgs you can find on the google. Add things to follow as you see them reposted. This will give you a better sense of the local actors. Also, you can just ask them - I was chatting with a friend and found out about a local county-level anti-ICE project that wasn't super well promoted but has a lot of good policy stuff.

You can also google "[location] immigrants rights protest" and the news coverage will probably tell you who organized the protest. It looks like groups called Northwest Detention Center Resistance and Mijente organized the recent one in Seattle.

I am seeing a huge but solvable problem on this issue and similar ongoing policy disasters - there is poor communication even among activist groups and different activist social circles, never mind trying to reach out to people who would like to start participating. The problem is that facebook and twitter self-segregate unless you're really active in searching, but people just put stuff on the twitters and think they're good. We need other methods - partly a return to flyering, for one thing - it used to be that if you didn't know what was going on, you'd just head over to whatever the liberal part of town was, whether the library bulletin board or the student district, and there would be paper flyers that any old person could read regardless of who they knew.
posted by Frowner at 9:37 AM on June 15 [22 favorites]


Thank you, Suelac. I have the info. Appreciate it.
posted by greermahoney at 9:38 AM on June 15 [1 favorite]


Kate Bolduan: The President could fix this with a phone call.

Sen. Lindsey Graham: Yeah but that just incentivizes more illegal immigration.


Note that Graham just undercut the lie that Democrats are somehow responsibile for "not fixing the law that forces them to do it." (Which the press should realize is phony, anyway, since Republicans control both houses of Congress.)

But, for what seems like the millionth time, they're doing it to asylum seekers too, and seeking asylum is -- and ought to be -- a totally legal process.
posted by Gelatin at 9:42 AM on June 15 [22 favorites]




Zachary Cohen (CNN)
Sec. Mattis: "Putin seeks to shatter NATO. He aims to diminish the appeal of the western democratic model and attempts to undermine America's moral authority, his actions are designed not to challenge our arms at this point but to undercut and compromise our belief in our ideals"

---

Cool. Now do your boss.
posted by chris24 at 9:51 AM on June 15 [39 favorites]


He just did, though.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:52 AM on June 15 [51 favorites]


NPR: A Texas Prosecutor On Immigrant Family Separations

Steve Fucking Inskeep soft-balling a regime OverThug and giving him all the airtime he needs to deceive and obfuscate. Even the language in the title: "Immigrant Family Separations" (instead of, say, "Child Detention Camps") is clear minimization. Your occasional reminder that NPR is controlled opposition.
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:55 AM on June 15 [19 favorites]


What the everloving fuck? WSJ, Behind the Scenes at G-7 Meetings, Allies Dismayed by Trump’s Jabs. We've got calling Juncker a "brutal killer" thing already ("I think he meant it as a compliment but I’m not so sure"), but this is new:
At one point, Mr. Trump brought up migration as a big problem for Europe and then told Mr. Abe, “Shinzo, you don’t have this problem, but I can send you 25 million Mexicans and you’ll be out of office very soon,” according to the senior EU official who was in the room. A sense of irritation with Mr. Trump could be felt, “but everyone tried to be rational and calm,” the person said.

The EU official said at another point, in a discussion over Iran and terrorism, Mr. Trump verbally jabbed at Mr. Macron, “You must know about this, Emmanuel, because all the terrorists are in Paris,’” the senior official said.
He thinks he can send Japan 25 million Mexicans? I don't. What.
posted by zachlipton at 9:58 AM on June 15 [34 favorites]


lydhre: "I’ve been living here 13 years and I still do not understand why the fuck MA can’t seem to run a credible Democrat for governor. Why are we giving up already, goddamnit??"

I think it's actually kind of in the self-interest of power brokers in the General Court (the legislature) to have it this way. The legislature is firmly in the hands of the Democrats for the foreseeable future. When the governor is a Democrat, a lot of power flows to him, and away from the legislature. You're just supporting the governor. When the governor is a Republican, on the other hand, legislative leaders become very important - you're blocking the governor, you're negotiating with the governor, when you run for re-election, you can contrast yourself with him.

It's stupid, but Massachusetts has some pretty...non-constituent focused...politicians.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:00 AM on June 15 [12 favorites]


I think that's supposed to mean "If you had 25 million Mexicans (read: illegal immigrants, because Trump's a racist) in your country the people would vote you out and replace you with a Japanese version of me." Not that he believes he can personally export Hispanic people.

I think.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 10:00 AM on June 15 [19 favorites]


He thinks he can send Japan 25 million Mexicans? I don't. What.

It's the "millions of Illegals voting" horseshit that he latched onto after the election to explain losing the popular vote.
posted by Rust Moranis at 10:01 AM on June 15 [5 favorites]


In my experience, "privileged" people -- affluent or relatively affluent, college educated, with "good" backgrounds -- generally experience criminal prosecution as conspiratorial.

...Which is why for me, the most delicious part of Manafort's facing criminal charges and going to jail is that he's being unapologetically treated somewhat like a normal, no-name, everyday person. Sure, even his prosecution and imprisonment reflect his privilege (high-powered lawyer, probably a club Fed prison eventually, etc.), but knowing that for affluent criminal fucks like him, anything less than total deference and kid gloves is "unfair" and beneath them... it's just fantastic to think about him not being able to will his wishes into existence. Enjoy Planet Earth, fuckwad.
posted by Rykey at 10:03 AM on June 15 [12 favorites]


Occasional reminder that NPR News pushed "enhanced interrogation" for years, like the tools they are.

Twitter and Facebook are some twisted shit but ok because we have got to find a reliable fact-based alternative to corporate news. They've shot the country in the leg and are doing fuck all about it.

adamdavidson: I feel, ever more strongly, that the media has a real problem in telling the big, clear, obvious story of our age.

*checks watch* er, welcome, adamdavidson. Kudos on your creeping suspicion.

Donald Trump's Russian Mob Connected Campaign Manager Jailed Amid a Flurry of Indictments. . . isn't the headline we'll see even though it's the case.
posted by petebest at 10:08 AM on June 15 [18 favorites]


US expected to withdraw from UN Human Rights Council: report

A source told Reuters that the move could be “imminent.” The council will begin a three-week session in Geneva on Monday. Other diplomatic sources told Reuters that the withdrawal was “not a question of if but of when.”

Probably time to stop denying that we're fully a rogue state.
posted by Rust Moranis at 10:08 AM on June 15 [59 favorites]


Not that he believes he can personally export Hispanic people.

I think.


I once had the unfortunate professional acquaintance of a rich old white guy with a history of being powerful and unopposed in private business who decided one day he wanted to declare eminent domain on a large section of the city that was predominantly poor Africian-American housing, bulldoze the neighborhoods, and turn it into a private country club and golf course for him and his rich white guy buddies. When I asked about the current residents and how he can't just take over a big block of the city, he said he had solved that: he would have the residents rounded up and bused to the other side of the state where they'd be someone else's problem.

In the end this plan did not come to fruition (and he tried for a white under different approaches), but I firmly believe these kinds of racists who don't have someone to tell them no believe they can simply export groups they don't like out of sight and out of mind.
posted by Servo5678 at 10:09 AM on June 15 [35 favorites]


What the hell, he gets away with every other goddamn thing he tries, why not go for it!? Mariel boatlift II, electric boogaloo.
posted by Don Pepino at 10:11 AM on June 15 [4 favorites]


Greenberg Quinlan Rosler poll of Texas Senate has Cruz up 49-43 on O'Rourke [MOE: +/- 3.1%].
posted by Chrysostom at 10:12 AM on June 15 [13 favorites]


I’ve been living here 13 years and I still do not understand why the fuck MA can’t seem to run a credible Democrat for governor.

Aside from Deval Patrick, who spent eight of those years as governor, you mean?

Part of it is that, as long as they stay in Massachusetts, credible Republican gubernatorial candidates tend to be more like Northeastern Republicans from the 1960s - actually liberal on many issues (yes, even Romney had his liberalish moments, at least until he abandoned the state after a couple years to run for president). Baker is like that, too, on most sort of classic liberal issues - he's pro-gay rights, for Romneycare, um, Obamacare, etc. Sure, he's against sanctuary-state status and is OK with state police cooperating with ICE, and he's done his best to privatize the MBTA, but that's where the legislature comes in.
posted by adamg at 10:14 AM on June 15 [6 favorites]


How do people know these things are happening so they know when to show up?

I was made aware of the Families Belong Together events via the megathread (thanks, Metafilter!) and attended my local one, the first time I've been able to attend an event like this since living here. When I got there I saw that there were people representing from multiple groups including but not limited to our local branches of: Poor Peoples Campaign, Democratic Socialists of America, and Women's March. There were more but I can't remember what they were. There was a lot of discussion about social media, asking people to Facebook Live from the event, asking people to bring friends to events. I've been enjoying an extended break from Facebook, and I'm mostly just a lurker on Twitter, but if this is what it takes to stay in the loop I'm willing to accept that- I've now followed all these groups on social media.

I also realized once I was there how many people appeared to be affiliated with the Unitarian Universalist church- which now that I think of it makes total sense but I'd also sort of forgotten UU existed. Now that I've made that connection, I think I'm going to try to start going to my local one occasionally, as it seems like probably a decent way to meet like-minded, organizing people and hear about events.

By the way thanks to (i believe it was) Frowner for recent comments about what do/ expect at events. I would just add that, I wasn't sure what was going to be happening and whether I was supposed to get there at the beginning and stay for the whole thing. Because I'm socially awkward and didn't know anyone I didn't get there until like an hour in, only to discover later that a lot of awesome people had given some really great and motivating speeches at the beginning (which luckily got recorded so I did get to see them.) But next time I'll go when it actually starts.

Lastly, in this ocean of horrible media, I was pleasantly surprised to read this little tidbit in a news blurb about the event (on the website of a Sinclair station, no less; emphasis mine):

In a briefing Thursday, White House Spokesperson Sarah Sanders again falsely claimed the decision to separate families was a law, not a Trump administration decision.
posted by robotdevil at 10:14 AM on June 15 [24 favorites]


Aside from Deval Patrick, who spent eight of those years as governor, you mean?

Part of it is that, as long as they stay in Massachusetts, credible Republican gubernatorial candidates tend to be more like Northeastern Republicans from the 1960s - actually liberal on many issues (yes, even Romney had his liberalish moments, at least until he abandoned the state after a couple years to run for president). Baker is like that, too, on most sort of classic liberal issues - he's pro-gay rights, for Romneycare, um, Obamacare, etc. Sure, he's against sanctuary-state status and is OK with state police cooperating with ICE, and he's done his best to privatize the MBTA, but that's where the legislature comes in.


Of course Patrick was a Democrat but his election was treated as both an aberration and an inevitability (to his detriment). Coakley was a milquetoast candidate at best and there's no one of merit running in this Hopeful Year of The Blue Wave 2018.

Thing is, Baker might be a "Northeastern Republican" but he's a piece of shit on a million liberal issues, especially from a defunding social services and slashing the budget point of view. "That's where the legislature comes in" is a pipe dream, for the legislature too.
posted by lydhre at 10:22 AM on June 15 [4 favorites]


To reiterate: I will eat a gluten free Thing with Words on it if I’m wrong, but: Manafort can’t flip without risking the lives of everyone he loves, so he’s not flipping. He’s going to jail for the rest of his life. Silently.

I dunno, I'd prepare to bake the gluten-free thing. Manafort's gonna get a pardon, either by this regime or some future Republican regime.
posted by anem0ne at 10:24 AM on June 15 [1 favorite]




Can someone please post a link about the 4pm SF ICE protest? I'm having trouble finding anything.
posted by mabelstreet at 10:28 AM on June 15 [1 favorite]


On that CIA interrogator training ICE agents thing, the contract says it is "to supply training based on a unique concept known as Detecting Deception and Eliciting Responses System."

Besides being the title of a self-published 1-star-review book, this "system" shows up in a few TSA and Border Patrol manuals, and is described in this Homeland Security document as "...an advanced behavioral science and interview strategies course designed for CBP CTR Officers/Agents to build upon and improve their skills of information collection and their ability to gather valid and factual information from potential terrorist suspects."

It's owned by (private sector) Abraxas Corporation, which provides "service, technical, and training programs across a vast array of Intelligence and U.S. Government organizations". Their parent company's website is a study in blandly terrifying, if you feel like you need some more of that in your day. (Seriously I had no idea how much of this "national security" stuff had already been privatized. Lots.)

So there's my contribution to the yarn wall for the day
posted by ook at 10:33 AM on June 15 [55 favorites]


Also it's a no-bid contract, just as icing on the cake
posted by ook at 10:35 AM on June 15 [21 favorites]


Michael Cohen is seeking a restraining order against Michael Avenatti to bar from speaking to the press

Denied for now, along with a reminder from the judge that he meant it when he said he didn't want ex parte applications. Avenatti can respond in 10 days, and the judge will consider it from there.
posted by zachlipton at 10:36 AM on June 15 [20 favorites]


Trump immigration comments spark chaos in GOP

He pulled this in January too, blowing up his own party's bill. It's almost as if he doesn't actually want any action taken on immigration because the current horror show he's created is suiting him just fine.
posted by zachlipton at 10:42 AM on June 15 [19 favorites]


@realDonaldTrump
The Democrats are forcing the breakup of families at the Border with their horrible and cruel legislative agenda. Any Immigration Bill MUST HAVE full funding for the Wall, end Catch & Release, Visa Lottery and Chain, and go to Merit Based Immigration. Go for it! WIN!

Mass kidnap-for-ransom.

@realDonaldTrump
Wow, what a tough sentence for Paul Manafort, who has represented Ronald Reagan, Bob Dole and many other top political people and campaigns. Didn’t know Manafort was the head of the Mob. What about Comey and Crooked Hillary and all of the others? Very unfair!


Incoming pardon.
posted by Rust Moranis at 10:44 AM on June 15 [34 favorites]


Where are the girls they are holding? That's what's worrying me. Already sold to traffickers? Are all the boys accounted for? They been sold too? My heart breaks. How can anyone be this evil?

I'm additionally wondering that since none of the people involved with the internment are presumably cleared in the usual way for working with children, how many of them even COULD have been cleared to work with children, if processed through correct channels. What kind of background checks will be done on the temp workers they're going to have to hire as these places expand? Because it's exactly the kind of situation that will be an irresistible lure to gross predators, especially in an administration that has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that it is 100% okay with child molestation.
posted by poffin boffin at 10:44 AM on June 15 [65 favorites]


Trump continues to make the patently false claim that the Democrats are responsible for his administration's novel decision to prosecute anyone suspected of illegal entry and thereby separate children from parents. He says he hates the policy and that all that needs to happen for its resolution is for the Democrats to call him up and make a deal. Just as with DACA, Trump's strategy is to commit unconscionably evil acts which appeal to his base, and then to blame his political opponents in an attempt to extort their acceptance of other policies he supports, such as the absurd border wall.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 10:47 AM on June 15 [37 favorites]




Their parent company's website is a study in blandly terrifying, if you feel like you need some more of that in your day.

For folks looking to divest -- the parent company, Cubic Corporation, is publicly traded. It is a component in each the funds listed here - including a number of Vanguard funds; Vanguard is the second largest institutional shareholder after BlackRock.

Sleeping Giants is tweeting the names of other contractors as they're revealed. MVM Inc. is privately held, but General Dynamics is public and included in the S&P 500 and several Vanguard funds.
posted by melissasaurus at 10:49 AM on June 15 [31 favorites]


A small respite from the horrors o the day:

@funder:
Paul Manafort was in genuine shock when his bail was canceled and he was ordered to jail. His face apparently changed colors becoming clammy and flustered. He realized that no matter what, he’s spending time in prison. And that sank in... quickly. I think he will flip, soon.
posted by Artw at 10:55 AM on June 15 [65 favorites]


One of Australia's original sins and historical stains is the stolen generation. Too recently, the Australian government were taking Aboriginal children from their parents.

We had a Prime Minister who refused to apologize for this. It was so infuriating to me because, in my mind, it came down to this simple fucking choice:

Is taking children away from their parents evil?
☑ Yes
☐ No

If you fail this simple quiz than you have no role in leadership.
posted by adept256 at 10:57 AM on June 15 [89 favorites]


The facilities that have been reported on are licensed childcare facilities, meaning their employees have to be cleared appropriately. These are not DHS or military facilities. They're either private or under HHS.

However, a) presumably the facilities that have been reported on are the absolute best examples that could be found. B) they may not have been getting appropriate oversight to begin with, and that oversight may be different in character under the current administration. C) they are currently over capacity, which is a serious problem itself, and d) they have recently had to hire a lot of people quickly.

I want to stress that this was the absolute best example of such a facility, and still, the only good thing you can say about it is that there is no clear evidence of physical damage to the kids.

The temporary facilities being made, such as the tent cities, do not have to be licensed, and they could be "temporary" for a very long time.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 10:59 AM on June 15 [11 favorites]


Russia's state TV: "Crimea is ours, Trump is ours!"
posted by growabrain at 11:00 AM on June 15 [27 favorites]


Not to make excuses for Vanguard, but those are index funds. For example, the Vanguard Total Market Index Fund owns precisely 2.29% of every public company in the U.S., good or bad.
posted by JackFlash at 11:01 AM on June 15 [4 favorites]


The idea that Russia's invasion of Crimea was justified because of the Russian-speaking people there has been a Kremlin talking point for many years, and I have heard it repeated by a viewer of RT. Now POTUS is repeating the same point. He may well have been educated on this matter by Putin himself.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 11:03 AM on June 15 [19 favorites]


Sometimes I think about how in 1976 a school bus with 26 children was hijacked, and how all the kids and the driver were buried in a box truck in a quarry while they were held for ransom. They were able to dig themselves out after 16 hours and the kidnappers all got life sentences.

I think about thousands of buried trucks under military guard.
posted by Rust Moranis at 11:04 AM on June 15 [6 favorites]


Can someone please post a link about the 4pm SF ICE protest? I'm having trouble finding anything.

All I can find is this fb link.
posted by greermahoney at 11:10 AM on June 15


And if you can’t make that one, there’s one in Richmond on Sunday. Also fb. Sorry.
posted by greermahoney at 11:13 AM on June 15


WSJ, ‘What’s He Doing Here?’: Inside Trump’s Turbulent Relationship With Michael Cohen, in which Trump got tired of Michael Cohen in 2009. He tried to get his staff to get him to resign, and cut his salary in half. Cohen didn't go, sticking around to boost his boss's political ambitions and, per the article, help write tweets attacking Rosie O’Donnell. Oh, and he ran for re-election for his seat on the Trump World Tower board literally this month, but resigned after people started pulling a "he doesn't even go here," since he no longer owns an apartment in the building.

WSJ, Trump, More Independent of West Wing Advisers, Relies on Cabinet
One recent power struggle involving Mr. Kelly centered on the selection of Mr. Trump’s top economic adviser. Mr. Kelly offered the position to Chris Liddell, the former General Motors executive who had been overseeing a White House office aimed at long-term policy goals, senior officials said. But Mr. Kelly had to retract the offer, they said, when it leaked and Mr. Trump changed his mind amid the coverage, including a critical editorial on The Wall Street Journal opinion page.

The president then installed Larry Kudlow in the job as director of the National Economic Council. Mr. Kudlow didn’t meet Mr. Kelly until after he accepted the job.
Totally normal staffing process.

White House walks back Trump's rejection of immigration compromise, in which the White House anonymously says Trump "misunderstood the question," and he actually supports both immigration bills. This is pathetic.
posted by zachlipton at 11:17 AM on June 15 [35 favorites]


Thanks for the links, greermahoney! (I went on fb last night for the first time in months to share my donation to the raicestexas immigration bond fund, so my fb defenses are down anyway)

occupysf says union Local 2 is protesting there today at 2pm, too. Not sure if these are coordinated
posted by mabelstreet at 11:20 AM on June 15 [2 favorites]


@realDonaldTrump
Wow, what a tough sentence for Paul Manafort, who


...who hasn't been sentenced: he merely had his bail revoked; it's a pre-trial detention order because Manafort is a flight risk and because he's probably involved in witness tampering.

Lying? Not understanding how anything works? Wow! What a tough sentence to parse.
posted by cjelli at 11:23 AM on June 15 [50 favorites]


"We call on all countries to take joint actions, resolutely put an end to this outdated and regressive behavior and firmly defend the common interests of humankind," the Chinese commerce ministry said, according to the South China Morning Post.

So there you go, China is calling for a trade-coalition-of-the-willing against the U.S.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 11:37 AM on June 15 [11 favorites]


AP Exclusive: About 2k minors separated from families

The tally is from April 19 through May 31.
posted by Rust Moranis at 11:38 AM on June 15 [30 favorites]


John Podhoretz's magazine Commentary has put out a new issue titled "African Americans vs. American Jews" (Twitter link) which proves that when it comes to race-baiting, Never-trumpers really only take issue with trump because he talks bad and looks funny.
posted by Atom Eyes at 11:39 AM on June 15 [9 favorites]


in which the White House anonymously says Trump "misunderstood the question," and he actually supports both immigration bills

Who are you going to believe regarding the President's opinion: The President, on the record, or an anonymous White House Official?

A few years ago, this would be a rhetorical question
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 11:39 AM on June 15 [12 favorites]


@realDonaldTrump
Wow, what a tough sentence for Paul Manafort, who

...who hasn't been sentenced: he merely had his bail revoked; it's a pre-trial detention order because Manafort is a flight risk and because he's probably involved in witness tampering.


I believe he's in jail because the judge doesn't believe he'll stop tampering with witnesses, not so much that he's a flight risk.

Anyway, here's an article title you probably don't want to read while you're eating: President Trump Injects Fresh Chaos Into Immigration Debate (NPR, June 15, 2018)
President Trump took Capitol Hill by surprise on Friday when he announced he would not sign a House GOP bill on immigration legislation drafted specifically to meet his policy demands.

"I'm looking at both of them. I certainly wouldn't sign the more moderate one," Trump told Fox News in a previously unannounced interview on the White House lawn.

House GOP leaders have been working for weeks on legislation aimed at meeting the so-called four pillars of Trump's policy demands on any bill to provide a path to legal status to people brought to the U.S. as children. House Republicans had been working with White House aides including Marc Short and Stephen Miller to ensure the president's support in the event it reached his desk.
...
Members are particularly confused by Trump's statement because Miller offered conservatives private assurances of Trump's support during a closed-door meeting on Wednesday.
...
"I hate the children being taken away," he said, "The Democrats have to change their law. That's their law."

Trump has repeatedly blamed Democrats, but it was the Justice Department under Attorney General Jeff Sessions that called for a crackdown at the border and tougher enforcement that now includes separating parents and their children into different detention facilities. There is no law that requires family separation.
Bolded For Truth. This is not "stop punching yourself," it's "stop punching that baby with my fist."

After Traveling 2,000 Miles For Asylum, This Family's Journey Halts At A Bridge (NPR, June 15, 2018)
The Berduo family traveled nearly 2,000 miles from Guatemala to the international bridge between Matamoros, Mexico, and Brownsville, Texas, but they could go no further.

Under a new policy, federal border agents stationed in the middle of international bridges are turning away asylum seekers like the Berduos, telling them there is no room in U.S. Customs and Border Protection stations for them.
...
Christina Patiño Houle, director of the Rio Grande Valley Equal Voice Network, says the administration is giving a mixed message. Federal officials are telling asylum applicants to stop wading across the river and entering unlawfully. Rather, they should come through an official port of entry.

"A message is being broadcast across the nation that migrants should be seeking asylum through official channels, and it's just not possible," Patiño Houle says. "What we're seeing on the ground is that people are being turned away. They're being told that either there's no room or they cannot enter the bridge."

U.S. officials say there may be a holdup at some bridges but that, ultimately, immigrants who wait a matter of hours or days are permitted to enter.

"Port of Entry facilities were not designed to hold hundreds of people at a time who may be seeking asylum," CBP says in its statement.

But there are not hundreds of migrants a day trying to cross the Matamoros/Brownsville bridge, according to Mexican officials interviewed on the Matamoros side. They estimate only 10 to 15 asylum seekers show up a day, and they're surprised that U.S. agents are saying there's no room in their station.
Bolded for emphasis.

'These Are Not Kids Kept In Cages': Inside A Texas Shelter For Immigrant Youth (NPR, June 14, 2018; updated June 15, 2018)
"We want to show you that these are not kids kept in cages," said Alexia Rodriguez, a spokeswoman for the Texas nonprofit Southwest Key that operates the shelter. "We provide them excellent care."

A network of about 100 migrant youth shelters are now 95 percent full. Casa Padre, which houses boys ages 10 to 17, has room for just 28 more children.

The federal government is looking for additional places to put the surge of migrants, mostly from Central America, coming across the border seeking asylum. And officials are considering housing young immigrants temporarily at U.S. military facilities.
...
On Wednesday, reporters were allowed a rare glimpse inside Casa Padre, a 250,000-square-foot facility located on the outskirts of Brownsville across from a pizza joint and a McDonald's. The boys confined there waved, smiled and said "hola" to the group of visiting journalists; reporters were forbidden to interview the children or staffers. The ratio is one adult counselor to eight children, to keep them in line and to watch for behavioral and emotional problems.

During the carefully scripted visit, the boys were shooting baskets, kicking soccer balls, playing video games, watching a movie, sitting in classrooms where they were taught about the U.S. government, learning tai chi and chowing down on a meal of chicken and mixed vegetables.
...
"Our goal is to reunite kids with their families," Rodriguez said.

But immigrant advocates fear these children may end up staying longer in shelters like this one. That's because the federal government has begun fingerprinting family members who want to take in these children, and sharing that information with the Department of Homeland Security. The advocates fear this will make the relatives less willing to step forward.
...
Meanwhile, the Trump administration's policy of separating families is facing harsh criticism from members of Congress, religious leaders and pediatricians.
Reunite the children with their families where?

And if you want to hear more from pediatricians on this matter, here you go:

Detention of Immigrant Children (by Julie M. Linton, Marsha Griffin, Alan J. Shapiro, Council on Community Pediatrics; Policy Statement from the American Academy of Pediatrics, May 2017, Vol. 139 / Issue 5)
Immigrant children seeking safe haven in the United States, whether arriving unaccompanied or in family units, face a complicated evaluation and legal process from the point of arrival through permanent resettlement in communities. The conditions in which children are detained and the support services that are available to them are of great concern to pediatricians and other advocates for children. In accordance with internationally accepted rights of the child, immigrant and refugee children should be treated with dignity and respect and should not be exposed to conditions that may harm or traumatize them. The Department of Homeland Security facilities do not meet the basic standards for the care of children in residential settings. The recommendations in this statement call for limited exposure of any child to current Department of Homeland Security facilities (ie, Customs and Border Protection and Immigration and Customs Enforcement facilities) and for longitudinal evaluation of the health consequences of detention of immigrant children in the United States. From the moment children are in the custody of the United States, they deserve health care that meets guideline-based standards, treatment that mitigates harm or traumatization, and services that support their health and well-being. This policy statement also provides specific recommendations regarding postrelease services once a child is released into communities across the country, including a coordinated system that facilitates access to a medical home and consistent access to education, child care, interpretation services, and legal services.
I'd like to believe that things have gotten better, but even if they have, this "zero tolerance" bullshit hasn't improved the situation because of (imminent) overcrowding, if nothing else.
posted by filthy light thief at 11:40 AM on June 15 [39 favorites]


China has announced 25% retaliatory tariffs on 545 US products, to take effect next month. The products include farm equipment, cars, and agriculture. Additional products are targeted for tariffs at a future date.
posted by zachlipton at 11:43 AM on June 15 [26 favorites]


@studentactivism:
Okay. I've found it. The absolute culmination of the "we have to build bridges with the far right" argument

It’s quite a thing.
posted by Artw at 11:45 AM on June 15 [28 favorites]


I think there's only one thing that might turn Trump's base against him: being personally damaged by an economic crisis. I suppose a trade war with China could achieve that!
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 11:46 AM on June 15 [4 favorites]


Michael Avenatti is tweeting that the government has extracted more info from Cohen's materials
• 2 Blackberrys that they're still extracting from
• 16 pages of shredded material
• 731 pages of encrypted messages from WhatsApp and Signal

Oh, just...731 pages of encrypted messages?
posted by Brainy at 11:46 AM on June 15 [36 favorites]


I do believe that we are a nation that, without God, there is no truth, and it’s all about power, ideology, advancement, agenda, not doing the public service.”

Honestly, more and more, when I see these people, it's like the Uncanny Valley of religion. Like they're trying to say the things that a person of faith might say but instead it's full of bees.

Because like - you can believe that without God, there is no truth or goodness or public service, but if you're in the Christian faith tradition, there is no place but hell that has no God in it, so it's kind of an irrelevant statement in that context. Like, if you're going to tell me Jan Zabinski wasn't - as a person of faith would perceive it - doing God's work or service for the public good when he hid Jews from the Nazis just because he was an avowed atheist I'm going to tell you that you need to do some hard looking at yourself.

And whenever this kind of stuff comes up I keep remembering that Pew poll which measured both people's perception of their own religiosity, and people's actual attendance at church aligned with their support of Trump. And it found that as people's actual church attendance increased, their support for Trump declined, but that people who considered themselves religious but that didn't actually join with a religious community and attend it regularly were pretty much the sweet spot for support for Trump.

And like - there are people of sincere faith out there who try their best and do good in the world. But I feel like there are also a lot of people who claim to be religious more as a way of preserving perceived white culture than as a way of actually having religion. I mean, I can never know what's in their hearts, but like - I just don't see these people actually doing good in the world even by their own lights. Where is Sessions' charity work? Who has he actually helped? What good has he tried to do in the world? If it's all bitterness and corruption all the way down, he doesn't get to blame that poison on God. That's all him.
posted by corb at 11:51 AM on June 15 [44 favorites]


Where is Sessions' charity work? Who has he actually helped? What good has he tried to do in the world?

Many American Christians have rejected this doctrine- you get into heaven by faith, not by good works.
posted by dilaudid at 11:53 AM on June 15 [13 favorites]


Trump still wants to pretend that he lost the popular vote due to millions of non-citizen illegal voters. It's still a thing. Even in private, even among world leaders. He can't let it go, because it is fundamental to his ego.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 11:53 AM on June 15 [6 favorites]


cjelli: ...who hasn't been sentenced: he merely had his bail revoked; it's a pre-trial detention order

I have a strong feeling that around half the country doesn't understand the distinction between bail and fines, and correspondingly, between jail and prison. I actually didn't grasp the first one until around this year, and that's partly because of the (unacceptably high) number of people given unaffordable bail, which arguably defeats the whole point. Embarrassingly, I didn't realize that people even got the money back! I sort of figured it was a funding source of the legal system, or something (and I'm sure there are jurisdictions where it somehow is, but that would be an instance of corruption). But no, it's collateral. Which makes more sense.

We very often talk about jail and bail like they are punishment, when they're not supposed to be. You detain people until it's time for their trial/sentence, and you use bail to counter any incentives for not showing up in court (which means bail can and should be zero for a lot of people).

The blurring of these distinctions also comes up in apologetics for the fresh atrocities of child kidnapping. "If the parents didn't want to go to jail they should have followed the law!" Well, setting aside what is and isn't legal, criminal suspects aren't imprisoned, just detained. Because there's no cause for punishment, so prison should be out of the question. That's why keeping families together while their cases were processed worked (with lots of problems) before. The families still weren't going anywhere in the old system. And it's another reason that Sessions and Trump are full of such rancid evil white-hooded perfidious bullshit.
posted by InTheYear2017 at 11:54 AM on June 15 [21 favorites]


I do believe that we are a nation that, without God, there is no truth, and it’s all about power, ideology, advancement, agenda, not doing the public service.”

I'm glad you highlighted that - one of the reasons I like using Greimas (or semiotic) squares is that it elucidates these not-a-contradictions. Sessions is here NOT saying that believing in God grants all these things -he leaves the door open for someone to believe in God and also have no capital-T-Truth, and indeed just be all about power, ideology and advancement while loudly proclaiming a religious belief.

Sounds familiar.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 11:56 AM on June 15 [2 favorites]


@C_Sommerfeldt: NEW: Rudy Giuliani tells @NYDailyNews "things might get cleaned up with some presidential pardons" when the "whole thing is over" in light of Paul Manafort being sent to jail.

I was hesitant to post this because I try to take a pass on Rudy's ramblings, as they don't reflect anything other than his own delusions, but this one is pretty striking. Is he actively trying to get himself caught up in obstruction charges? Does he really have no better way to send this message than through the press? Why?
posted by zachlipton at 11:56 AM on June 15 [23 favorites]


I think there's only one thing that might turn Trump's base against him: being personally damaged by an economic crisis.

...they'll be saying that President Trump doesn't have enough power...and blame it on certain parasitic and traitorous ethnic groups.
posted by bonobothegreat at 11:59 AM on June 15 [11 favorites]


If Rudy can’t get a Cabinet seat then maybe a pardon is good enough for him. It’s like getting knighted by king trump.
posted by Burhanistan at 12:00 PM on June 15 [1 favorite]


I think there's only one thing that might turn Trump's base against him: being personally damaged by an economic crisis. I suppose a trade war with China could achieve that!

given his base's gullibility and economic anxiety bigotry, i have my doubts, particularly if trump and his propagandists shift blame to china for hurting them.

which is gonna be fun for anyone who looks chinese (pretty much any east/southeast asian, john mulaney, jim sturgess, emma stone, and scarlett johannsen) to those deplorables.
posted by anem0ne at 12:00 PM on June 15 [9 favorites]


that's partly because of the (unacceptably high) number of people given unaffordable bail, which arguably defeats the whole point. Embarrassingly, I didn't realize that people even got the money back!

In most cases, people without the means must buy a bail bond from a bondsman company. The cost of this bond is typically 10% to 15%. You never get that money back, even if you go to trial.

For example, if you don't have ready cash for a $5000 bond, you must pay $500 to $750 to a bondsman to put it up the bail for you. You never get that money back.
posted by JackFlash at 12:02 PM on June 15 [17 favorites]


fixing family separation IS a worthy goal for the Dems and we can't afford to treat it like a bargaining chip instead of a priority.

If the kids are not bargaining chips, this is pure malicious racist evil. If the kids are bargaining chips, this is pure hostage-taking evil. How do you negotiate with people willing to abuse kids to get leverage?
posted by benzenedream at 12:02 PM on June 15 [38 favorites]


Where is Sessions' charity work? Who has he actually helped? What good has he tried to do in the world?
Many American Christians have rejected this doctrine- you get into heaven by faith, not by good works.


My understanding is that faith+works was always a Catholic thing; Protestants, primarily Evangelicals, think that faith alone is necessary. Which is why you can be Born Again and still be a monster but considered one of the good ones by Sessions and other American Evangelicals, but someone like Pope Francis is destined to burn for all eternity.
posted by anem0ne at 12:03 PM on June 15 [9 favorites]




I was hesitant to post this because I try to take a pass on Rudy's ramblings, as they don't reflect anything other than his own delusions, but this one is pretty striking. Is he actively trying to get himself caught up in obstruction charges?

He was in the wrong room at some point, and he knows it, and he knows that Pence and/or Manafort and/or Flynn and/or someone else was in that room at the same time. And that room is going to end up becoming the metonym for the whole Trump / Russia / money-laundering / election-tampering / who-the-hell-knows-what-else scandal. And someone else is going to sing or has already sung, and Rudy knows that Trump's loyalty is a fragile and brittle thing, and the only slim, tiny chance he has is that he gets a pardon before Trump and Pence get impeached.
posted by Etrigan at 12:05 PM on June 15 [7 favorites]


Many American Christians have rejected this doctrine- you get into heaven by faith, not by good works.
Yes that's true, and the same is true of almost all Protestant Christians in Europe and everywhere else in the world. It is a basic tenant of Calvinism, which is the foundation of most of the world's protestant religions.

However, this doesn't at all mean that Calvinists are somehow innately amoral. It's simply that the causality runs the other direction. The faith of those who are saved will be evident in their works.

I really, really wish non-Christians would stop using various strawman Christianities to beat up on American evangelicals. I am not a fan of their brand of Christianity, but neither is it as stupid as many here seem to think.
posted by chrchr at 12:07 PM on June 15 [16 favorites]


There is no law that children need to be separated from their family.

Every discussion of whether or not Christians believe they must obey the law at all times needs to first highlight this fact.
posted by xammerboy at 12:08 PM on June 15 [7 favorites]


I don't know exactly where American Christianity stepped over the line from "if you have faith, you will naturally act with love toward your fellow man," to "if you have faith, you can throw your fellow man into an open sewer and Jesus will be totally cool with it," but it'd be nice if we as a culture could get a do-over on that one.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 12:09 PM on June 15 [52 favorites]


John Podhoretz's magazine Commentary has put out a new issue titled "African Americans vs. American Jews"

No surprise. This is the same magazine that published Norman Podhoretz (John's father)'s "My Negro Problem -- and Ours" in 1963 when he was editor. That link's behind a paywall, but here's a pdf. The title was adapted from arguments made at the time by Malcolm X and others. Podhoretz argued (among other things) that the solution to the problem of racism and race hatred was the erasure of African Americans and their culture through intermarriage and miscegenation. Which is really, really, really fucking racist.) Podhoretz wrote an essay explaining why he wrote the thing in 2013. Without apologing. More about the essay(s) and Podhoretz himself from Jeet Heer, here and here.

Jews were active in the Civil Rights movement, yes. Religiously speaking, we are supposed to have a moral and ethical obligation to fight oppression and not contribute to it. Further, we're supposed to do that without asking for a fucking handout in return. The very idea is revolting.

African Americans are not "indebted" to Jews for a damned thing and it is profoundly offensive, undeniably racist and completely disgusting to say they are. It is unspeakably disgusting to say that African Americans should be supporting Israel because of the civil rights movement.
posted by zarq at 12:09 PM on June 15 [37 favorites]


scaryblackdeath, I got you.

SEATTLE PROTEST against this immigration policy - THIS SUNDAY, June 17th, Noon, Westlake Park.

Families Belong Together / Familias Unidas No Divididas (Yes, this is a FB link. Sorry.)

Hosted by Northwest Immigrant Rights Project and other organizations.

I do not know if this is a 'permittted' or 'unpermitted' event, nor if they're just going to rally, or rally and march.
posted by spinifex23 at 12:10 PM on June 15 [6 favorites]


@KatyTurNBC: The President lied or misled the American public 19 times this morning. We have an hour long fact check now. @MSNBC
@mschlapp: Katy this is why the Natl media is literally unhinged from half of the country. Report the facts leave the moral condemnation to others

The conservative media project in a nutshell. "Report the facts" means 'shut up and take stenography' rather than, er, reporting facts. And this is why bad journalism providing false balance to try to stop right-wing criticism never works: they don't want the pure factual reporting either. They want zero negative things said about them at any time. And if you spend an hour reporting facts, you're unhinged.

There just aren't enough hours in the day for us to all take an hour to sort out the nonsense every time the President opens his mouth, and by the time that's over, we'll have another hour's worth of lies to deal with.
posted by zachlipton at 12:15 PM on June 15 [60 favorites]


I really, really wish non-Christians would stop using various strawman Christianities to beat up on American evangelicals. I am not a fan of their brand of Christianity, but neither is it as stupid as many here seem to think.

Two-thirds of highly-religious white Protestants approve of the job trump is doing in office, according to Gallup.

So, you're right: not ALL (white) Evangelicals are stupid. Just 66.6% (heh) of them.
posted by Atom Eyes at 12:15 PM on June 15 [20 favorites]


Yes that's true, and the same is true of almost all Protestant Christians in Europe and everywhere else in the world. It is a basic tenant of Calvinism, which is the foundation of most of the world's protestant religions.

Nope, Calvinists believe in salvation by grace/election, i.e., TULIP, not salvation by faith.
posted by FelliniBlank at 12:16 PM on June 15 [13 favorites]


Two-thirds of highly-religious white Protestants approve of the job trump is doing in office, according to Gallup.

At the risk of making a no-true-Scotsman argument: I think it is important to note that these "highly religious" people are self-professed Christians, and may not have the self-reflection necessary to gauge whether their faith may have some faults.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:21 PM on June 15 [5 favorites]


> If the kids are bargaining chips, this is pure hostage-taking evil. How do you negotiate with people willing to abuse kids to get leverage?

If funding for CHIP is any indication, with great difficulty.
posted by klarck at 12:21 PM on June 15 [6 favorites]


I really don't want to be Not All Christians but chrchr is right. Pointing out problems in doctrine is all well and good but using support for Trump or whatever to argue against the religion is no different from Trumpists ranting about 72 virgins and Sharia to justify their hatred of their Muslim neighbors.
posted by downtohisturtles at 12:24 PM on June 15 [4 favorites]


Trump has a problem with pre-trial detention for someone who suborned perjury while out on bail and who's facing 14 felony counts and 300+ years for crimes ranging from obstruction of justice to money laundering.

Trump has no problem ordering pre-trial detention and separation from their parents for thousands of immigrant children for the misdemeanor of illegally entering the US. And also detaining and separating those who committed no misdemeanor and are simply seeking asylum.
posted by chris24 at 12:26 PM on June 15 [88 favorites]


And now for excerpts from a soliloquy by Chuck Wendig on tone policing in the age of Trump.


Fuck Trump.

Now, if your response to that was GASP TUT TUT, WHAT LANGUAGE, THIS IS HOW WE LOSE THE NEXT ELECTION --

It's an awfully weird time to be fucking tone policing, isn't it?

"OH GOD I'M BEING EATEN BY A FUCKING TIGER FUCK FUCK OW FUCK"

"Whoa whoa whoa, Dave, maybe your *toilet mouth* is why the tiger has chosen to eat you. Try a little politeness from now on, fella."

The right has crafted a sneaky narrative, one where they get to walk away with every atrocity in the book -- while simultaneously holding full court press against the teeniest slight cast by someone on the left. "Yes, I killed a baby, but that Democrat was RUDE about it."
posted by vverse23 at 12:27 PM on June 15 [88 favorites]


Maybe we should let the theological sidebar slide? (I know, eponysterical.)
posted by Barack Spinoza at 12:28 PM on June 15 [33 favorites]


Many American Christians have rejected this doctrine- you get into heaven by faith, not by good works.

As Jesus’s brother James put it, “faith without works is dead.” And St. John asks “How does God’s love abide in anyone who has the world’s goods and sees a brother or sister in need and yet refuses help? . . . Those who say “I love God,” and hate their brothers and sisters, are liars.”
posted by EarBucket at 12:29 PM on June 15 [13 favorites]


And now for excerpts from a soliloquy on tone policing in the age of Trump.

This goes on from the snippet posted and is very good.
posted by chris24 at 12:29 PM on June 15 [2 favorites]


@mschlapp: Katy this is why the Natl media is literally unhinged from half of the country. Report the facts leave the moral condemnation to others

Another lie. Trump doesn't speak for half the country, let alone all of it.
posted by Gelatin at 12:29 PM on June 15 [12 favorites]


I really, really wish non-Christians would stop using various strawman Christianities to beat up on American evangelicals. I am not a fan of their brand of Christianity, but neither is it as stupid as many here seem to think.

If they don't want to be tarred with the stupid, malicious, racist, asshole brush, then maybe they should stop acting like it.

As a former Southern Baptist, I can attest that they've formulated a doctrine that values repentance and faith far more than acts. I've heard preachers say at funerals, that the dead loved one's good deeds mattered not at all, but her faith would get her home. I've seen evil sons of bitches get welcomed into the arms of the church because they repented publically every Sunday.

If American evangelicals want respect and kindness towards their faith, then maybe they should start spreading some around themselves.
posted by teleri025 at 12:30 PM on June 15 [24 favorites]


I really don't want to be Not All Christians but chrchr is right. Pointing out problems in doctrine is all well and good but using support for Trump or whatever to argue against the religion is no different from Trumpists ranting about 72 virgins and Sharia to justify their hatred of their Muslim neighbors.

You've gone past Not All Christians right into All Religions Matter.
posted by This time is different. at 12:31 PM on June 15 [18 favorites]


I think there's only one thing that might turn Trump's base against him: being personally damaged by an economic crisis. I suppose a trade war with China could achieve that!

His base won't turn against him if the economy goes to shit; they'll always find a way to blame that on Obama or liberals or immigrants etc. But if Trump truly crashes trade and the economy and if the community of decent nations boycotts and sanctions and isolates and condemns us, it will fuck things up for the serious money people who fund the GOP, and they can and will obliterate Trump posthaste

However, it would also create even more suffering for many vulnerable Americans, so it's hard to advocate that, but it may be the only thing other than one too many greasy cheeseburgers that can make a difference.
posted by FelliniBlank at 12:33 PM on June 15 [9 favorites]


At the risk of making a no-true-Scotsman argument: I think it is important to note that these "highly religious" people are self-professed Christians, and may not have the self-reflection necessary to gauge whether their faith may have some faults.

Which is a fair theological point, but if I'm on the outside looking in I have no way to gauge what another religion believes other than the beliefs professed by its adherents. I'm open to the argument that the "God loves assholes (if they believe)" crowd is a vocal minority, but not that they don't count because they're reading the Bible wrong.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 12:36 PM on June 15 [5 favorites]


@C_Sommerfeldt: NEW: Rudy Giuliani tells @NYDailyNews "things might get cleaned up with some presidential pardons" when the "whole thing is over" in light of Paul Manafort being sent to jail.

Here's the full NY Daily News story: Rudy Giuliani Says Mueller Probe 'Might Get Cleaned Up' With 'Presidential Pardons' In Light Of Paul Manafort Going To Jail
“I don’t understand the justification for putting him in jail,” Giuliani, 74, said. “You put a guy in jail if he’s trying to kill witnesses, not just talking to witnesses.”

Giuliani, who serves as Trump’s personal lawyer, doubled down on his previous call to end Mueller’s investigation.

“That kind of investigation should not go forward,” Giuliani said. “It’s time for Justice to investigate the investigators.”
On a lighter note, ABC's Evan McMurry posted a heart-warming video of Paul Manafort hurrying into the courthouse this morning to chants of "Lock him up!"

Also, if we truly need an in-depth discussion of the intersection of religion and politics in the US, could the interested parties please make a separate FPP???
posted by Doktor Zed at 12:39 PM on June 15 [31 favorites]


@SenSchumer: .@realDonaldTrump’s actions on China are on the money. China is our real trade enemy, & their theft of intellectual property & their refusal to let our companies compete fairly threatens millions of future US jobs.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 12:40 PM on June 15 [1 favorite]


Please. The Prosperity Gospel is not Calvinism.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 12:41 PM on June 15 [5 favorites]


Cancel your subscription and then

Print is the New Vinyl OR Reading the Resistance Round One on Paper

Remember when we knew what someone was reading down the bar, on the bus, in the waiting room because it was on visible tangible paper instead of a blank device? Pay for old school paper subscriptions, flaunt what you're reading and support print publications that do investigative journalism instead of clickbait Trumpism.

Starter list:

USA Today: Skeptical political coverage of administration talking points, matter of fact pushback editorials. Give a print subscription to your TV-yelling-news-always-on relatives. Also a great gift to your local senior center. Alert: US Fathers Day is June 17, 2018.

The New Yorker: Unbelievable Scaramucci interview many Scaramuccis ago, stellar political investigation and opinion: https://www.newyorker.com/

Texas Observer: excellent coverage of immigration, border control

The Guardian: London calling for 21st century America

Columbia Journalism Review: critical coverage of politics and journalism

Rolling Stone: plainspoken political reporting:

Cancel your subscription starter list:

The New York Times: lickspittle access journalism, perfected bothsideism misogyny, Trump whisperer Maggie Haberstrom and her Trump book partner Glenn Thrush (back from his brief #MeToo slap on the wrist), horseraces and only horseraces, David Brooks disengenous handwringing

Washington Post: normalized bothsideism, normalizing Trumpism

Harper's: host of faux feminist faux #MeToo backlash

Atlantic Monthly: incubator of Ross Douthat (see New York Times) and attempted brand extension via hiring of racist "conservative" writer
posted by jointhedance at 12:45 PM on June 15 [20 favorites]


@SenDougJones: It’s appalling to me that someone could use the Bible to justify tearing children away from their families. This @TheJusticeDept policy is not a law—HUGE difference—and it defies our values as Americans. I’m exploring every option available to halt this policy.
posted by Chrysostom at 12:46 PM on June 15 [45 favorites]


@SenSchumer: .@realDonaldTrump’s actions on China are on the money. China is our real trade enemy, & their theft of intellectual property & their refusal to let our companies compete fairly threatens millions of future US jobs.

I have responded to congratulate Chuck on his failure to take back the Senate.
posted by Existential Dread at 12:49 PM on June 15 [12 favorites]


As Jesus’s brother James put it, “faith without works is dead.”

Yeah. No shit. Do you really think that Christians who believe in "salvation by faith" have never heard of that verse in James? Please also refer to Ephesians 2:8. People have been trying to figure this out for literally hundreds of years.

You can criticize Sessions and Trump-voting Christians for hypocrisy and generally being lousy Christians without digging up any particular weird Christian doctrines. This doctrine isn't why they're being horrible.
posted by chrchr at 12:49 PM on June 15 [2 favorites]


Good News Dept: Looks like organizers have collected enough signatures in Massachusetts to put initiatives for Paid Family and Medical Leave and a $15 minimum wage on the ballot in November.
posted by Chrysostom at 12:50 PM on June 15 [39 favorites]


Washington Post: normalized bothsideism, normalizing Trumpism

*laughs*

They've spent the last two years aggressively going after Trump. More than any other paper. Calling out lies, publishing leaks, scandals and exposés. They employ David Fahrenthold, who won a Pulitzer for his coverage of Trump's lies about charitable donations.
posted by zarq at 12:52 PM on June 15 [103 favorites]


NBC News, Despite claims, GOP immigration bill would not end family separation, experts say. GOP sources say they're working on new language.
posted by zachlipton at 12:52 PM on June 15 [8 favorites]


@SenDougJones
It’s appalling to me that someone could use the Bible to justify tearing children away from their families. This @TheJusticeDept policy is not a law—HUGE difference—and it defies our values as Americans. I’m exploring every option available to halt this policy.


That Senator Roy Moore isn't tweeting out his support for the trafficking of thousands of girls right now is proof enough that this isn't the worst possible timeline and that some bad outcomes are still avoidable.
posted by Rust Moranis at 12:53 PM on June 15 [20 favorites]


[Hey folks let's maybe stop trying to solve comparative religion in here, I think this is mostly going in circles and not very good ones at this point.]
posted by cortex (staff) at 12:54 PM on June 15 [49 favorites]


White House press release by 'Donald J. Trump' (but clearly more proximately by Stephen Miller, which doesn't absolve Trump at all): Results of Congressional Democrats’ Dangerous Immigration Policies
CONGRESSIONAL DEMOCRATS’ FAMILY SEPARATION POLICY: Too many American families have been permanently separated from loved ones lost to illegal alien crime.

Open border laws and policies are responsible for the permanent separation of too many American families whose loved ones have been lost to illegal alien crime.

Rather than admit that it's Trump's policy -- not any particular law -- that is leading to the detention of children, the White House is embracing some literally Orwellian nonsense in which it attempts to redefine what 'family separation' means.

On a related note, Josh Dawsey, CNN:
Hill officials again perplexed at White House. Stephen Miller, senior aide, helped negotiate compromise "moderate bill." Trump then said he wouldn't sign it. Now White House saying he might? No one knows what he actually meant this morning.
This is the same confusion as earlier reported, except that it's been half a day and now multiple members of congress are saying they don't know which bill -- or which set of policies -- the President actually supports.
posted by cjelli at 12:55 PM on June 15 [14 favorites]


I posted this on the tail end of the previous thread, but it's important, and I don't want it to get missed, so I'm reposting here also.

I've been offline for a few days, and when I came back, I noticed that at the top of the site, there is a banner about funding shortfalls with Mefi. These political threads are killers when it comes to staff and site resources. Those of us who partake regularly in these threads, and who have available resources, now is the time to chip in. $8,000 a month shortfall could spell the doom of the site we all love and visit all the time. At the risk of sounding like an NPR host, please contribute now. Give generously and often.

I think we'd all be lost without Mefi, let's not find out.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 12:56 PM on June 15 [104 favorites]


The CA primary vote counting continues apace and in the CA-48 House race the totals now stand at:

DANA ROHRABACHER (REP--Ural Mountains) 47,052 30.6%
HANS KEIRSTEAD (DEM) 26,716 17.4%
HARLEY ROUDA (DEM) 26,387 17.2%

Keirstead's lead over Rouda continues to wobble around 200-400 votes.

The top two finishers will face-off in the general this November. Speaking of the general in November -- are we to expect a delay of 10 days for the votes to get counted then, too? (Or more, as the primary vote counting is still ongoing. Cross your fingers they finish up before we vote again!)
posted by notyou at 12:58 PM on June 15 [2 favorites]


This is the same confusion as earlier reported, except that it's been half a day and now multiple members of congress are saying they don't know which bill -- or which set of policies -- the President actually supports.

Neither does the President. As soon as one of the competing bills steps up to lavish him with praise and hotel concessions, then we'll have a winner.
posted by notyou at 1:00 PM on June 15 [4 favorites]


Last i saw, Jones (and eight other Democrats) still hadn't signed on to Feinstein's bill, so his tweet seems to be just the equivalent of "thoughts and prayers" for victims of gun violence. Same goes for McCain, Flake, and Collins, any two of whom would give the bill majority support if the whole Dem caucus joined, if they ever backed up their concerns with action.
posted by zombieflanders at 1:01 PM on June 15 [8 favorites]


US expected to withdraw from UN Human Rights Council

Quite seriously, I keep expecting Trump to fulfill one of the right’s biggest wet dreams and leave the UN altogether and kick it out of the country.
posted by Thorzdad at 1:03 PM on June 15 [9 favorites]


Speaking of the general in November -- are we to expect a delay of 10 days for the votes to get counted then, too?

If we're lucky. Could be longer.

Remember that on election night in 2016 people were thinking that Trump had won the popular vote narrowly as well as the electoral college and there were only a few voices in the wilderness yelling about how California counts slower than molasses and was going to deliver millions and millions of extra votes for Clinton.
posted by Justinian at 1:03 PM on June 15 [2 favorites]


In Russia, reality shapes you.
posted by infini at 1:05 PM on June 15


Remember that on election night in 2016...

No
posted by Atom Eyes at 1:05 PM on June 15 [40 favorites]


Guiliani: “I don’t understand the justification for putting him in jail,” Giuliani, 74, said. “You put a guy in jail if he’s trying to kill witnesses, not just talking to witnesses.”

This is Giuliani playing dumb for the rubes. As a former prosecutor he knows that one condition of release on bail is that you commit no more crimes. Talking to witnesses to shape their testimony in your favor is a crime. It doesn't require any threats at all.
posted by JackFlash at 1:07 PM on June 15 [52 favorites]


California does a lot of vote by mail, and stuff just needs to be postmarked by Election Day. Thus, slow counts.
posted by Chrysostom at 1:11 PM on June 15 [7 favorites]


There's some lol-worthy Trump's mirror in that WSJ article about Cohen posted by zachlipton:
Mr. Trump jabbed at his opponents, including board member Stephen Wolf, who had been chief executive of US Airways Group Inc. before the airline filed for bankruptcy. “What does he know? He ran his airline into the ground,” Mr. Trump said from the podium with Mr. Wolf nearby, according to several attendees.
posted by peeedro at 1:13 PM on June 15 [6 favorites]


If I ever do a re-watch of Seinfeld, it's going to be super weird seeing Giuliani pop up in that episode about frozen yogurt.

It would be like if Joseph Goebbels had made a guest appearance on the Jack Benny show in 1932.
posted by Atom Eyes at 1:16 PM on June 15 [50 favorites]


I love that Chuck Wendig rant but jeebus h christ I wish he could have written just one blog post and posted a damn link or a pic or the rant or SOMETHING. This is why I hate that Twitter is our only method of communication allowed now. (Also, kids, get off my lawn.)
posted by jenfullmoon at 1:17 PM on June 15 [11 favorites]


Oh boy, this Friday isn't going to let up even a little, is it?

Right now in Nevada; someone with a gun and an armored car is blocking traffic in the middle of the Hoover Dam.

[8 News Now] #UPDATE: In a photo sent to 8 News NOW from Keith Aronson, the suspect has notes taped to the window of the vehicle he's barricaded in. One note says "Mr. President release the reports," according to a passerby. #HooverDam #8NN

I can only presume those "reports" are the QAnon/Pizzagate nonsense.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 1:18 PM on June 15 [31 favorites]


Jeff Sessions’s other favorite Bible stories (Alexandra Petri, WaPo)
Leaving aside the fact that the Bible is, well, not the law of the land and not something we should cite from a legal standpoint when explaining the laws of the land, here are some more justifications that Sessions might use for this policy. You can find a lot of things in the Bible.
  • Job: As we see in the Bible, God is in favor of making innocent people suffer for no reason whatsoever.
  • Judgment of Solomon: As King Solomon so wisely and clearly admonishes us, babies should be taken from their mothers and cut in half.
  • Moses in the Bulrushes: As the Bible so humanely shows, if you take a baby from its mother and float it downriver in a basket, it will work out fine.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 1:20 PM on June 15 [29 favorites]


Everybody always talks about how when Allied troops retook much of Europe, they marched Germans through concentration camps. They made the German citizenry see what their empire did. I've never really seen it said outright, but the understanding was "you are responsible for this. Even if you didn't do this yourselves, you allowed this to happen, on your own soil. If you identify as a German, and the government was doing this in Germany, then you are culpable."

We look down on those people. We look at those people and say "even if they weren't card-carrying nazis, if they allowed this to happen, then they didn't do the right thing. They didn't stand up."

This is happening here, now. We're taking children from parents, not because these parents are unfit, but because of their background. They weren't born on the right side of a border. MAYBE this policy isn't racist, but if it isn't it's really damned close. And while I don't think that the US is looking to cause genocide in this case, nor many of the horrible things the nazis did to Jews and others, I'm going to argue that taking children from parents is a form of torture, for both the children and the parents.

I am the perfect example of why Democrats lose. I always try to be reasonable. I've joined the marches, and I've canvassed, and voted when I should. I try to talk with people rather than get emotional. To a fault. I pick on the faults of people on the left more than is necessary, certainly more than people on the right criticize their own. I try to be rational, and pragmatic. Although I have suggested it in the past (in a failed attempt at humor/farce/court jestering,) I am not interested in a civil war. I do not want this country to become an actual, literal war zone.

But maybe it's time. Maybe it's time I drew a line in the sand, or planted my flag on the hill upon which I would die. I do not want anyone to be able to say of me, "he knew what his own government was doing and he did nothing." I'm not advocating violence but goddammit they are taking and imprisoning children, right here, right now. This isn't some faraway, fucked-up nation with a different language and different cultures, this is my home. How dare they. And how dare I not do anything in response?
posted by nushustu at 1:22 PM on June 15 [87 favorites]


I can only presume those "reports" are the QAnon/Pizzagate nonsense.

Either that or an unredacted DOJ OIG report, I've seen speculation both ways with no confirmation yet. The Dam has been evacuated & traffic is being rerouted.
posted by scalefree at 1:25 PM on June 15


[Heya, let's maybe leave conspiracy nonsense to the conspiracy nonsensers and not run with it at length in here.]
posted by cortex (staff) at 1:32 PM on June 15 [7 favorites]


Right now in Nevada; someone with a gun and an armored car is blocking traffic in the middle of the Hoover Dam

To be clear, this is the bypass bridge and not the dam itself — I believe the road was rerouted from the dam several years ago.
posted by stopgap at 1:34 PM on June 15 [2 favorites]


He's been taken into custody. Show's over.
posted by scalefree at 1:35 PM on June 15 [6 favorites]


Is there a venting thread?
posted by ZeusHumms at 1:36 PM on June 15 [2 favorites]


Trump has a problem with pre-trial detention for someone who suborned perjury while out on bail and who's facing 14 felony counts ...Trump has no problem ordering pre-trial detention and separation from their parents for thousands of immigrant children for the misdemeanor of illegally entering the US.

To quote peak Morrissey:
"It's not like any other [incarceration],
This one's different,
because it's us."
posted by msalt at 1:38 PM on June 15 [2 favorites]


Is there a venting thread?

Fucking Fuck XI was archived earlier today, so I don't believe there is a currently active venting thread.
posted by nubs at 1:39 PM on June 15 [2 favorites]


What does he know? He ran his airline into the ground.

The ups and (mostly) downs of Trump Shuttle, the president’s long-defunct airline
The crash landing of the Boeing 727 was perhaps the best metaphor about Donald Trump’s airline: a passenger jet with malfunctioning nose gear dumping fuel to avoid a greater catastrophe, the thin veneer of a graceful landing torn away with the white underbelly paint grinding on the asphalt, and public relations spin turning a near-disaster into an apparent strength.
...
Marble sinks were too heavy on the airframe, where every inch is scrutinized to save space and weight, so faux-marble was installed. Thick burgundy carpets made it difficult for flight attendants to move their beverage and food carts. Trump advised the attendants to push harder, Kranish and Fisher wrote. And despite customer surveys touting on-time flights and consistent schedules as their main needs, Trump insisted on gold-plated fixtures, leather seats and chrome buckles for flights that typically took less than an hour.
Donald Trump’s airline went from opulence in the air to crash landing
Even at the time, Trump was widely believed to have overpaid [$365 million]. When his team added up how much it would cost to start such a carrier from scratch, they estimated around $300 million.
...
On airplanes that were worth about $4 million each, Trump spent about $1 million apiece to redesign them. He wanted a T on the tail of the plane as big as possible. A giant TRUMP was painted on the side.
...
Over an 18-month period, Trump couldn’t turn a profit. The Shuttle had lost $128 million.
...
In late 1991, about 2½ years after Trump had purchased the airline, Trump gave up control of his prize in order to get out from a pile of debt.

As part of the deal, Trump was no longer responsible for some $245 million in loans left on the shuttle airline. In addition, out of the $135 million that Trump had personally guaranteed, at least $100 million was forgiven, according to news reports at the time.
posted by kirkaracha at 1:43 PM on June 15 [21 favorites]


NBC News, This man is running Russia's newest propaganda effort in the U.S. — or at least he's trying to: Alexander Malkevich [the "USA Really. Wake Up Americans" guy] tried to throw a rally at the White House, but nobody showed up.

Sad trombone.
posted by zachlipton at 1:43 PM on June 15 [12 favorites]


He's been taken into custody. Show's over.

oh, so he was white
posted by anem0ne at 1:50 PM on June 15 [82 favorites]


A Man, A Jail, Manafort

A palindrome for the occasion:

Yo, Joe, no glib regrets. No! Manafort in nitro? Fan!! A monster gerbil gone. O, joy!
posted by msalt at 1:54 PM on June 15 [71 favorites]


Called my useless slimebag Texas senators to tell them how I felt about fucking tent concentration camps for children outside El Paso. They won't care because they are useless slimebags who are a-ok with babies in cages, but I guess it's good I called to let them know I see their evil. It doesn't feel particularly useful but it's all I've got available to me to do today. Ugh.
posted by emjaybee at 2:06 PM on June 15 [41 favorites]


If a holy book had to be a basis for law, well, the Bible is full of contradictions and lots of awful ideas, so pass on that.

All that said, the gist of its instructions for treating foreigners when they visit your country is pretty consistent.


If there’s one historical commonality of all the civilizations that have risen above base tribalism, it’s the value of hospitality. A nation that won’t shelter and embrace a stranger in need is invariably doomed to failure.
posted by a box and a stick and a string and a bear at 2:07 PM on June 15 [20 favorites]


Slate, “The Waiver Process Is Fraud”, in which the government tells the Supreme Court that the travel ban is ok because there's a waiver process, but consular officials say it's all a scam and they were told they couldn't grant waivers.

For instance, a Yemeni girl with cerebral palsy was denied a waiver until the issue came up in the Supreme Court hearing.
posted by zachlipton at 2:08 PM on June 15 [21 favorites]


Josh Marshall at Talking Points Memo notes that the DOJ Inspector General's report didn't deal with leaks by FBI agents to Republicans, and has a video of Nunes claiming that they leaked details of Anthony Weiner's laptop to him in September 2016, almost as soon as the agents were aware of the laptop's contents.

It's clear to me that Comey's actions were partially an attempt to appease a large body of FBI agents who were virulently anti-Clinton and were unconcerned about influencing the election, at best.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:10 PM on June 15 [25 favorites]


It doesn't feel particularly useful but it's all I've got available to me to do today.

When you feel like you might despair, write postcards.
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:12 PM on June 15 [8 favorites]


Guiliani: “I don’t understand the justification for putting him in jail,” Giuliani, 74, said. “You put a guy in jail if he’s trying to kill witnesses, not just talking to witnesses.”

I refuse to believe Giuliani wouldn't have a handy explanation/excuse if Manafort openly killed a witness.
posted by InTheYear2017 at 2:12 PM on June 15 [11 favorites]


I prematurely hit post there. Postcards to Voters has campaign at the moment for the specual election to replace disgraced Congressman Blake Farenthold (who used $84,000 of taxpayer money to settle a sexual harassment suit) for the remainder of his term -- which runs until November. They want to elect the guy who is already the Democratic nominee for the November ballot, so he will be the incumbent in that race. It's a special election, so a little turn out goes a long way
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:16 PM on June 15 [12 favorites]


Walter Shaub (fmr Dir. Office Government Ethics)
Sen. Graham just admitted on CNN to Kate Bolduan that the goal of ripping terrified children from their desperate parents is deterrence. I’ve been saying all along that the plan is to commit sufficiently horrific atrocities to scare people away. This is state sponsored terrorism.


When Democrats retake control, there's no looking "forward not backwards" this time.

ICE agents and Republican politicians must be turned over for trial at The Hague for crimes against humanity.

Get your Democratic members on record now. Not just abolish ICE, war crimes tribunals.
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:18 PM on June 15 [55 favorites]


It's clear to me that Comey's actions were partially an attempt to appease a large body of FBI agents who were virulently anti-Clinton and were unconcerned about influencing the election, at best.

One thing Ds need to do if they take the House is immediately open an investigation into these leaks. Rs have gone wild subpoenaing and releasing FBI texts and emails to thwart justice. Time to do it for justice. Let's see what's in *those* FBI texts.
posted by chris24 at 2:30 PM on June 15 [12 favorites]


WaPo, After forging new ties with North Korea, Trump administration turns to Russia
The president’s interest in a meeting with Putin became public in March after the Kremlin disclosed that Trump extended an invitation in a phone call with the Russian leader. But U.S. officials say Trump privately has been asking his aides for a bilateral meeting ever since he met with Putin in Vietnam in November on the sidelines of a multilateral economic summit.

“After that meeting, the president said he wanted to invite Putin to the White House,” one U.S. official said. “We ignored it.”

At the time, top aides in the National Security Council opposed the idea of a meeting and said they didn’t view Trump’s interest in a summit as an order to set one up. “They decided: Let’s wait and see if he raises it again,” said the official, who like others spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss a sensitive issue.
Just who the hell is the President anyway?
posted by zachlipton at 2:31 PM on June 15 [8 favorites]


Chris Hayes continues to do commendable journalistic work on this from his twitter within the last half hour:

Were trying to make sense of some exclusive documents we've obtained about family separation, but there appear to be some really shocking details contained in the statistics, more later

One thing these internal documents show very clearly is that *of curse* this is a new policy intentionally undertaken by the Trump admin. Its actually called the "prosecution initiative.[emphasis mine]
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 2:33 PM on June 15 [19 favorites]


Romans 13 says nothing good or bad about any particular government action, past, present, future, or hypothetical. It just says "obey Caesar."

At the risk of being pedantic (but, hey, look what website I'm on) I will point out that the text never ever says Caesar, or emperor, or Senate, or king, or any title at all. It says "authorities." (Greek: "exousia") which is a really generic term. There is nothing in the text itself that points specifically to the authorities of the secular government. So, a good question to ask is "what authorities would Paul--the guy who has been repeatedly imprisoned by Roman leaders and will someday be executed by the emperor--what authorities is he likely thinking of, in context?" And you can read all of Romans and find nothing about secular government, but a whole long argument about the need for non-Jewish Christians to respect the Jewish roots and heritage of the Christian faith--including a very emphatic section in Romans 11 about how Gentiles have been grafted into Israel and are only saved because the promises God gave Israel are now being gracious extended to them. Then you realize that at this point in history, Christianity hadn't spun off to be its own separate thing but was a subset of Jewish worship, and then it hits you "OH MY GOD, ROMANS 13 IS TELLING GENTILE BELIEVERS TO BE RESPECTFUL OF THE SYNAGOGUE AUTHORITIES, IN WHOSE SPACES THEY ARE MEETING, AND WHOSE SCRIPTURES THEY HAVE ADOPTED AS THEIR OWN."

At least, that's the argument Mark Nanos makes, and he's sold me. Romans 13 was never about doing whatever Caesar says. God doesn't care about Caesar. It was always about Gentile Christians being respectful of the synagogue leadership. There is no text that enjoins Christians to obey secular government, and a hundred examples in the Bible of God's people ignoring kings and rulers to do what is morally right.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 2:33 PM on June 15 [83 favorites]


the "prosecution initiative"

The Hamming distance between the language of this admin and that of the Nazis continues to be minimal.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 2:37 PM on June 15 [12 favorites]


@KatyTurNBC: The President lied or misled the American public 19 times this morning. We have an hour long fact check now. @MSNBC
@mschlapp: Katy this is why the Natl media is literally unhinged from half of the country. Report the facts leave the moral condemnation to others


Tur responded, "Where am I deviating from the facts here? This is a statement of fact. He lies. A lot."

Schlapp—who, as husband to White House Director of Strategic Communications Mercedes Schlapp, is hardly a disinterested party—doubled down, "A tweet is too short but in many cases there is a dispute over objective facts including at the border. Perhaps neither side is lying."

Tur has now broadcast Why are Republican leaders OK with the President of the United States lying?—The President of the United States made 19 false or misleading statements to the press this morning on topics ranging from North Korea to the Russia investigation. Why won’t Republican lawmakers hold him accountable for his lies?

Mic drop.

And seriously, I'm this close to making a Romans 13 Roundup FPP myself if people really, really want to debate this.
posted by Doktor Zed at 2:38 PM on June 15 [98 favorites]


As part of the deal, Trump was no longer responsible for some $245 million in loans left on the shuttle airline. In addition, out of the $135 million that Trump had personally guaranteed, at least $100 million was forgiven, according to news reports at the time.

And this man painted himself as the answer to the middle class' anger over the foreclosure crisis.

The banks could forgive my mortgage and not realize one-tenth of one percent of the loss they took on Trump this one time.
posted by Gelatin at 2:39 PM on June 15 [7 favorites]


Vanity Fair, Melania Trump Spent Her Husband’s Birthday Away from Her Husband
We know that Donald Trump did not give his wife a gift for her birthday back in April. So, what was Melania’s plan for Trump’s 72nd birthday on Thursday? Leaving him alone in D.C. The First Lady was photographed in New York on Trump’s special day with a caravan of black S.U.V.s for what her spokesperson said was a series of “meetings.”

According to her spokesperson, Melania was in New York on Wednesday and left the city on Thursday. The spokesperson clarified statements made by the president, who told reporters last week that Melania was unable to fly after undergoing surgery for her kidney. She is still able to fly domestically.
Don Jr., for his part, took to Fox News to announce he had not gotten his father anything.
posted by zachlipton at 2:43 PM on June 15 [10 favorites]


Holy shit. Trump is Andy Kaufman.

It all makes sense now. The wrestling, the wigs.
posted by petebest at 2:51 PM on June 15 [15 favorites]


My psychiatrist has taken to giving me rosy-eyed projections about how this will end (midterms! Mueller!) and part of our sessions have been totally:

shrink: blah blah blah rosy outcome. That answer doesn't seem to satisfy you.
me: because it's not entirely truthful
posted by angrycat at 2:52 PM on June 15 [12 favorites]


Tur responded, "Where am I deviating from the facts here? This is a statement of fact. He lies. A lot."

Schlapp—who, as husband to White House Director of Strategic Communications Mercedes Schlapp, is hardly a disinterested party—doubled down, "A tweet is too short but in many cases there is a dispute over objective facts including at the border. Perhaps neither side is lying."


Good on Tur for challenging Schlapp. Note that his response is the weakest of weak sauce -- he doesn't cite any specific case, only vague "dispute over objective facts," and says that "perhaps neither side is lying."

Schlapp's statement would be an embarrassing admission that he has nothing even if the Trump administration deserved the benefit of the doubt. They don't.
posted by Gelatin at 2:53 PM on June 15 [6 favorites]


Pardon for the callback to much earlier in this thread (8am today), but this is sort of my area of expertise and I feel like it needs to be addressed.

Dashy posted a link to a US passport application adjudication letter from the Department of State (not Homeland Security, as stated in the tweet text):
From Elizabeth McLaughlin, One of our followers sent us this letter she received TODAY from Homeland Security after applying for a passport. She is a US citizen.

She wrote: “I served my country proudly in the United States Army. I am a college graduate. I have a BS in social psychology and was working towards another degree until hurricane Harvey hit. I have worked several verifiable jobs . . . I have recently been employed as a counselor and a highly respected Parole Officer and Case Manager. It seems to me that the letter is implying that they believe that I am not a US citizen . . . My wife and I are not sure what this means in trump's America. I am getting my affairs in order quickly just in case they come [for] me"

ICE isn’t just coming for folks crossing the border. They’re coming for ANYONE they believe may not belong here, no matter how spurious the facts. Born near the US-Mexico border in a midwife birth that delayed the filing of your birth certificate? Get ready. Fascism is here.
Later, MysticMCJ makes some leaps of reasoning about the letter. This is not surprising since this thread and the last part of the previous megathread have been heavy on the Religion Issue(s):
Regarding that letter that Elizabeth McLaughlin received - The very first bit of identification that they are asking for are baptism / confirmation / other ceremony information. Expressed differently, the very first question they are using to determine citizenship is based on religion.

Outside of that, I'm a US citizen who was born in KY, and I couldn't answer all of these questions. This line of questioning is something that could easily be used to arbitrarily deny passports or even citizenship, as it's virtually impossible for many to answer all of them, and no matter how much you answer, it's up to the reviewer to make the call.
So, a few things here, just gentle reminders for everyone. First of all, the US Department of State, despite its shitty, shitty current and recently-fired leadership, is a bastion of public service comprised of thousands of career bureaucrats who are quietly, gently still providing quality services to the citizens of the United States. I can't say 'nothing,' but I can say that not much has changed in that regard.

The letter in question is not exceptional. In the course of my job I've seen a bunch of different letters rejecting applications and requesting further documentation, and while I haven't seen one that references a shady Records Clerk as reason for making that request before, it is not out of the ordinary. California issues two different birth records, a "long-form" Certificate of Live Birth and an Abstract of Birth. Technically, both documents meet the State Dept's requirements for proof of citizenship when applying for a passport, but the latter has been specifically disallowed due to—I believe—a ton of those blank records being stolen from the state decades ago. So hinky shit gets in the way all the time of accurate local-level records-keeping, and the Dept of State does a pretty good job keeping those issues straight and gives appropriate responses when they come to bear on the application process.

Now, MysticMCJ noticed that they provide a list of various documentation an applicant can provide to supplement whatever proofs they submitted initially with the application. That list is not new, and it can be found on the State Dept's travel website (I believe) verbatim:
https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/passports/requirements/citizenship-evidence.html
And yeah, right at the top of the list for "Early Public or Private Documents" is Baptism Certificate. Further down the list there's a 'Family Bible' (because apparently that's a thing!), and there are a bunch of other records listed like Census records, Hospital Birth Records (those are the ones with the footprints on 'em), early school records, post-natal care records from the doctor, etc. These are all things that families have traditionally generated as, well, public or private records of their lives in the USA. Jumping to the conclusion that we're living in a theocracy because the Department of State accepts various traditional family records as secondary proofs of citizenship is the wrong reaction. Personally, I think it's cool that our federal bureaucracy has published and makes available so many avenues for providing proof of citizenship, as they attempt to cover the vast breadth of experiences US Citizens live in their early lives.

Were you born in a hospital? What about in a hot tub (this was apparently a thing while my mother was pregnant with me)? Delivered by a doctor or a midwife or a stranger? Born in a barn? In a cab? Were you born to parents who didn't (or couldn't) navigate the bureaucratic maze that is local records departments? Were you born abroad to US Citizen parents who didn't know they had to obtain a CRBA for you? Were you born abroad and then moved here as an infant and received citizenship through your parents when they were naturalized? Did they get you a passport right away? Did they get a Certificate of Citizenship for you at the same time they got their Naturalization Certificates? All of these variances have to be accounted for when verifying Citizenship for the purpose of obtaining a US Passport, and I think the real people working at the Department of State do a pretty good job of providing possible avenues for proof of citizenship to those who were born under non-standard circumstances.

TL;DR: everything is terrible, but that's no reason to jump to conclusions about a federal bureaucracy that is still managing to function under downright unAmerican leadership. Now I scroll back up and finish reading about Manafort in jail! (And whatever other fresh hells have been uncovered in the six hours since, oof.)
posted by carsonb at 2:54 PM on June 15 [60 favorites]


Michael Avenatti is tweeting that the government has extracted more info from Cohen's materials
• 2 Blackberrys that they're still extracting from
• 16 pages of shredded material
• 731 pages of encrypted messages from WhatsApp and Signal


This is huge. Here is the government's official declaration to Judge Kimba Wood. Apparently, they reassembled everything in the shredder, have cracked one of two Blackberries and are still working on the other. And:
The Government was advised that the FBI’s original electronic extraction of data from telephones did not capture content related to encrypted messaging applications, such as WhatsApp and Signal. The FBI has now obtained this material. There are approximately 731 pages of messages, including call logs, which were also produced today.
My guess: they found the piece of paper where Cohen wrote down his SUPER SEKRIT passwords, maybe in his safe deposit box. But the password for his older Blackberry wasn't on the list. No wonder he's thinking about flipping.
posted by msalt at 2:57 PM on June 15 [34 favorites]


angrycat: "My psychiatrist has taken to giving me rosy-eyed projections about how this will end (midterms! Mueller!) and part of our sessions have been totally:

shrink: blah blah blah rosy outcome. That answer doesn't seem to satisfy you.
me: because it's not entirely truthful
"

I don't want to minimize your concerns, things could absolutely still go shitty. The thing is - maybe now more than in previous point in US history - the future is unpredictable. I think back to when a commenter here - a person I believe to be a perceptive analyst of US politics - stated firmly that Mueller would be fired in the next few days, no question whatsoever. That was maybe six months ago.

Things may go truly full out fascist. Things may move back to normal. Things may do something we haven't even thought of yet. NOBODY knows.

I don't know that this helps any, just (if you can) don't pre-catastrophize.
posted by Chrysostom at 3:06 PM on June 15 [38 favorites]




I’m trying to imagine the massive impact that seven hundred pages of encrypted messages — specifically sent via an app intended to keep the contents secret — might have when compromised. It would probably be bad for even an average, not-especially-sleazy, attorney. But one who is hip-deep in the Swamp?

It’s going to be a very bad year for Mr. Cohen.
posted by darkstar at 3:08 PM on June 15 [10 favorites]


Jews are still sounding off after the Orthodox Union gave AG Jeff Sessions an honor/award yesterday.

After further discussion, the Orthodox Union, along with 26 other Jewish organizations and counting, has signed on to the Jewish Communal Letter Condemning Family Separation Policy, addressed to Sessions and Nielsen.
posted by zachlipton at 3:10 PM on June 15 [30 favorites]


Holy shit. Trump is Andy Kaufman.

I understand the comparison, but obviously we would be MUCH better off if this were the case. Trump is just another loser real-estate asshole from Queens. Take comfort in the fact that the Courts have given zero credibility to Trump and his proxy's arguments in actual court proceedings.

And you know that whole pardoning thing? Barbara Underwood has shown she is NOT Schniederman, and frankly, I think she welcomes the professional challenge of charging President DJT in NY for plain old money laundering...

Think of her Trump Foundation filings as her warm-up swings...
posted by mikelieman at 3:10 PM on June 15 [21 favorites]


The Government was advised that the FBI’s original electronic extraction of data from telephones did not capture content related to encrypted messaging applications, such as WhatsApp and Signal. The FBI has now obtained this material.

These kind of statements are always lacking in particular details that pique my curiosity. When the FBI extracts data off of a phone, they make copies of the phones' filesystems, then analyze it with software, etc. They would have had all of the "content" on the phone (even if they couldn't access the content, they had possession of it). They then go on to say that they simply "obtained" the material.

This statement makes me think they got the messages from somewhere that's specifically not the phone itself. It also makes me think that the FBI is pointing out that they can get the WhatsApp and Signal conversations with or without cooperation of those they are targeting, and with or without the physical phone.
posted by Mister Fabulous at 3:28 PM on June 15 [2 favorites]


731 pages of encrypted messages from WhatsApp and Signal

AAAAAAAHHAHAHAHAA

oh wait

Guys if an earthquake happens or something and they somehow manage to implement full fascism we’re going to need a new app
posted by schadenfrau at 3:30 PM on June 15 [11 favorites]


@GadiNBC:
We’re about to head into another detention shelter for immigrant children separated from families. This one much different from the former Walmart @jacobsoboroff showed us earlier this week. No cameras allowed in but our reports coming up @MSNBC @NBCNightlyNews @allinwithchris

So, the first thing children who are brought here are told is that this is not a detention center. — Even though they are not allowed to leave. Don’t know when they will be freed. And get 2 phone calls to family a week. Those calls can’t be longer than 10 minutes.

The first thing we were shown is this bell that is supposed to give kids hope... but seemed really haunting. we weren’t allowed to take pictures. But here’s what it said in Spanish. It means when a minor finally achieves their dream of reuniting with their family or sponsor, they’ll ring this bell as they leave. This will be the sound of hope. So one of the staff members giving the tour rang the bell... there was this strange second of silence... then all over the facility immigrant kids stopped what they were doing and started clapping. The idea, that one day they’ll leave free and get to ring the bell. (Unless they turn 18, at which point they are turned back over to ICE to be detained and prosecuted as an adult) in those cases, the bell isn’t rung.

At this facility, there are 63 kids, all males and most from Guatemala, El Salvador and Honduras. We saw them playing soccer in a caged field with nets. We were told the fencing was because soccer balls kept getting kicked off property.

The kids wake up at 630 am. Breakfast at 7am. Schooling until 2pm. Clinical work until 3pm Vocational, large muscle and recreational leisure structured by different blocks afterward. They have movie nights, special events, can play soccer... The staff says they have even hosted a prom where these immigrant children —- who are being held in a fenced and locked facility—- are allowed to dress up and socialize with girls who are also in the custody of HHS. And it’s not just parents being separated from their children... if a family has siblings that are brother and sister, they are seperated as well. At this facility in El Cajon, brothers and sisters are allowed to see each other once a week.

At this facility- staff says the average minor stays 47 days... but they have had a stay as long as +260 days. The HHS average stay is 56. Right now there are 11,351 minors being held in over 100 shelters like this across the country.
And these are the two that have allowed press.
posted by zachlipton at 3:30 PM on June 15 [91 favorites]


> Personally, I think it's cool that our federal bureaucracy has published and makes available so many avenues for providing proof of citizenship

I really appreciate your detailed response, but I can't say I feel any better.

So lets look at all of those venues - all of this is well and good if possessing one of them can be an definitive proof of citizenship, but so few of the are, that this could so very easily be turned into requiring so many avenues of proof of citizenship.

My points were as follows:
- It's surprising to me that the very first question is regarding baptism / ceremonies. I mean it's cool if that's an additional method you can use, but it still stands out as weird to list that as the very first thing. The problem with something "weird" like this is that something that may come across as a bureaucratic oddity in a benevolent administration can unfortunately take on an entirely different context under, say, a white supremacist fascist president. So maybe this is how it always has been, but we should be damned wary of it now, and look towards how comfortable we are with this long term.
- I still couldn't answer all of those questions, and if the record of my birth is suspect (assuming that's similar to the birth certificate) and it's the reason that I'm getting this letter in the first place, I likely don't have enough supplementary information to answer my birth in a reliable way. Seriously - I have zero other ways of actually proving that I was born here as opposed to having merely lived here for years, as I don't have a clue what hospital I was born in, and I don't have living or reliable parents that I can ask the bulk of the questions surrounding the circumstances of my birth. I can tell you my addresses, schools, employers, and family members, but none of that proves my birth authoritatively - it becomes a judgement call. Perhaps under a benevolent administration, I could have more faith in that playing out well, and I'd honestly love to know from your experience if those things would be sufficient in of themselves in the past.

To be clear - I'm not saying that these extra methods of proving citizenship are bad in of themselves, but all it takes is a change in leadership to change the context of everything. History doesn't really give me hope here. And to be further clear, it's not so much an "oh, shit - they are asking a religious question" as it is an "oh, shit - there's so many more things that can be used to deny citizenship than I had envisioned."

I absolutely value those workers who are doing good now, and who are keeping government running - but those institutions are being purged and filled with Trump loyalists. While I value the career government employees who are acting in good faith as they should, I have zero confidence that they will not be purged and replaced with those who will gladly adapt the routine paperwork into instruments of persecution.

You may say that this is all an overreaction to a passport application - I'd normally say that this is how it starts, but I think we are well beyond that point now, and we should be incredibly wary of where this can be taken, especially in the context of an administration that is separating families and interning "non-citizens" in the name of religion.

I appreciate the work you have done here, and I hope beyond hope that we can maintain some good people in similar roles.
posted by MysticMCJ at 3:38 PM on June 15 [9 favorites]


If I ever do a re-watch of Seinfeld, it's going to be super weird seeing Giuliani pop up in that episode about frozen yogurt.

It would be like if Joseph Goebbels had made a guest appearance on the Jack Benny show in 1932.


Try watching Home Alone 2.
posted by saturday_morning at 3:59 PM on June 15 [21 favorites]


Or Sex and the City, or any flick in NYC where he insisted on being on it.

I love how so far 2 family members did squat for his birthday, including leaving/talking about it on Fox News.
posted by jenfullmoon at 4:23 PM on June 15 [8 favorites]


Tim Dickinson (Rolling Stone)
we've got a kafkaesque nightmare in the making. Parents held by DHS; kids sent by HHS into foster homes in the interior. No system in place to track for future unification. What happens when the parents are deported? What happens if our government breaks these families forever? reunification right now is an ad-hoc process requiring lawyers and benevolent foster families. what happens to the kids whose parents fall off the map? they're stateless; are they naturalized; do they become a new population of Dreamers 10-15 years from now? Are they put up for adoption?

Some of this has shades of Argentina's dirty war and the children of the disappeared. There are over the horizon impacts we're not considering at all. And it's driven by a dehumanization of these desperate people who are seeking refuge and opportunity. It's the "Animals" factor; you don't treat humans like this. the next phase is the Trump administration complaining about the cost of interning all of these thousands of people they've decided to make wards of the state. Where that leads us is darkness.
posted by chris24 at 4:30 PM on June 15 [75 favorites]


Guys if an earthquake happens or something and they somehow manage to implement full fascism we’re going to need a new app

I don't think this is the case. What we're going to need is to understand how not to leave our messaging history on a device that can be unlocked by the manufacturer under subpoena or by hacking tools available to "law enforcement". As far as I know, the Signal protocols are still sound. But if you are using a device that does not encrypt its filesystem, or for which the filesystem can be decrypted by brute forcing a passcode (which is likely all of the mobile devices right now, I think, maybe even with the forthcoming USB restricted mode in iOS 12), then you need to be vigilant about deleting your chat history before your devices are seized.

If you use the Signal desktop app, for example, it saves its message logs in plain text, so be sure to use an encrypted filesystem, a strong login/encryption password, and a short timeout on your screen lock. And still frequently wipe your history. If the app has a "disappearing messages" feature, use it. The app is only as good as your use of it.
posted by hades at 4:30 PM on June 15 [4 favorites]


Which the press should realize is phony, anyway, since Republicans control both houses of Congress.

Also, "nobody knows the system better than me, which is why I alone can fix it." So why the fuck aren't you fixing it?
posted by kirkaracha at 4:32 PM on June 15 [4 favorites]


At this facility, there are 63 kids, all males

WHERE ARE THE GIRLS.
posted by nikaspark at 4:33 PM on June 15 [67 favorites]


The Ocasio Cortez / Crowley debate (NY-14) just ended -- she did really well; Crowley was struggling. Even if she doesn't win the primary, I think it was really good for the party that this debate happened.
posted by melissasaurus at 4:39 PM on June 15 [13 favorites]


ABC 's story Judge Orders Paul Manafort to Jail Pending Trial, 'Very Unfair' Says Trump includes an anonymous leak's belief-beggaring claim: "Sources close to President Trump’s legal team told ABC News they were 'stunned' by the decision."

Either Team Trump's so stupid that they honestly didn't think Manafort's jailing was the likely outcome or they consider their supporters so stupid that an attempt to play innocent would succeed with them.
posted by Doktor Zed at 4:43 PM on June 15 [12 favorites]


What happens if our government breaks these families forever?
Wether these families are broken or not, the misery may live on for decades. See: residential school system in Canada.
posted by bonobothegreat at 4:46 PM on June 15 [27 favorites]


The idea, that one day they’ll leave free and get to ring the bell. (Unless they turn 18, at which point they are turned back over to ICE to be detained and prosecuted as an adult)
What the fuck is up with that, by the way? They were brought here involuntarily as children, so when they turn 18 they going to be prosecuted "as an adult" for... what exactly? Being stuck in an ICE jail for however many years of their childhood?

Jesus Christ! We don't even treat American criminals that way. If you commit an offense as a juvenile, you may be (at most) imprisoned for the rest of your childhood, but then your record gets sealed and you get released. You get a fresh start - not "tried as an adult" for the offense you committed during your childhood. Yes I know there are some exceptions for especially heinous crimes, but it is not just a general policy that you go to juvey until age 18 and then start the prosecution all over again as an adult!
posted by Joey Buttafoucault at 4:57 PM on June 15 [64 favorites]


Some of this has shades of Argentina's dirty war and the children of the disappeared. There are over the horizon impacts we're not considering at all.

Innumerable locations and facilities, secrecy, nobody apparently keeping track. It's far too plausible that now or in the near future there will be on-paper "residential homes" that will be found to never have actually existed, the children never to be found.
posted by Rust Moranis at 5:03 PM on June 15 [15 favorites]


I promise you, no one of latinx origins has failed to consider all of these things at great length and for nearly 2 years now.

WE BEEN SAYING
posted by poffin boffin at 5:10 PM on June 15 [84 favorites]


There’s a kid with epilepsy that got snatched, I wonder if ICE know that, know how to care for them, if there’s even the remotest chance that kid isn’t going to suffer and possibly die due to medical neglect.

It seems likely there is already a bodycount.
posted by Artw at 5:13 PM on June 15 [5 favorites]


Oh man just watched the Ocasio-Cortez/ Crowley debate and it was awesome. You can watch it here (twitter link).

I don't really know anything about Crowley but man that looked like it got him sweating. His responses were a delicious blend of defensive and condescending with an undertone of panic. When he's going on and on about how good he is for diversity, look at all the women and minorities he's helped get elected . . . oh my god how embarrassing. "Help me, a white guy, defeat this minority woman so I can contribute to diversity. This young lady obviously lacks the qualifications to contribute to diversity." The fuck!? The look on her face when he's flailing, like she's thinking, "aww, you're precious."

He just comes off as entirely obsolete compared to her. God, I hope she wins. I want so much more of this.

(Also is it wrong that I love how much she sounds like Tracy Flick in her ad once she gets going?)
posted by robotdevil at 5:22 PM on June 15 [13 favorites]


WE BEEN SAYING

I personally feel so awful that I’m just now learning about the extent of this.

I don’t even know what else to say other than I’m here, I’m listening. I’m sorry.
posted by nikaspark at 5:25 PM on June 15 [7 favorites]


The first thing we were shown is this bell that is supposed to give kids hope...

The bell makes you free.

I don't use horrific very often. But this is horrific.

Hopefully the collapse of this administration & demise of ICE will go hand-in-hand.
posted by phigmov at 5:25 PM on June 15 [38 favorites]


Josh Marshall, There’s Something Fatally Wrong in the IG Report on the FBI and DOJ. The most important thing here is Nunes' Fox News appearance last night, where he said "good FBI agents" told him in September 2016 about the emails on Weiner's laptop. The timing is suspicious there, but even more conspicuous is the fact that the report doesn't really dig into this. Comey sent the letter because he thought the information would leak anyway, and yet the fact that the FBI can't keep information secret isn't addressed in the report.
Here’s where the new information from Thursday evening comes into play. Last night on Fox News Rep. Devin Nunes (R-CA) said that in late September 2016 “good FBI agents” from the New York field office told him and members of the House Intelligence Committee (HPSCI) that they’d found new Clinton emails on Anthony Weiner’s laptop. Nunes presented these agents as “whistleblowers” and that can be the case when government employees believe they’ve uncovered wrong-doing. But the timing suggests they more or less immediately went to congressional Republicans, about six weeks before the election. The emails were discovered on September 26th. They were talking Nunes in “late September.” That means they had to be “whistleblowing” in four days or less. That sounds more like politicized leaking of details of an on-going investigation than anything that could pass as whistle-blowing. If the “good FBI agents” went to Nunes and other congressional Republicans one or two days after the laptop was discovered that means they didn’t allow any reasonable amount of time to decide the top officials in DC were dragging their feet. They were clearly trying to force the matter.

Step back from the intricacies of the IG Report on the FBI and DOJ and there’s a lot of reason to believe that James Comey made what all consider a bad decision in large part because he and his advisors feared leaks and that these leaks would encourage claims of political bias against Comey and the FBI. There’s also quite a lot of evidence that fear of those leaks was driven by hostility to Clinton among agents in New York as well as members of the fraternity of retired FBI Agents. This hostility or bias toward Clinton seems like a very big driver of events in the fall of 2016. This would not absolve Comey of responsibility for his actions. But it seems impossible to understand the fullness of the situation without trying to get to the bottom of this part of the story. And yet, again, it’s largely ignored in the IG Report. No mention of Giuliani. No mention of the “good FBI agents” who went to House Republicans. I can only imagine what the texts of those “good FBI agents” might contain if scrutinized like Strzok’s and Page’s have been.

As I noted above, it’s possible that this is part of a future IG Report. There’s conflicting word on that. Even if that’s the case, presenting only one distorted side of the story in this report seems highly questionable. However that may be, we still need to get to the bottom of what happened here and why. Because the decision to send that letter on October 28th clearly had a big impact on the election of Donald Trump. And it never should have happened.
posted by zachlipton at 5:30 PM on June 15 [40 favorites]


Rene Boucher, who beat the crap out of Rand Paul is sentenced to 30 days in prison. Rand Paul is a sitting member of congress. Judging from the 30 day sentence he's also got to be a tremendous asshole.
posted by rdr at 5:34 PM on June 15 [18 favorites]


Judging from the 30 day sentence he's also got to be a tremendous asshole.

Or judging from everything else we know and have seen of him.
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:47 PM on June 15 [17 favorites]


I don’t even know what else to say other than I’m here, I’m listening. I’m sorry.

Go a little further. Phone your reps. Make your voice heard. Listening isn’t enough.
posted by nubs at 5:59 PM on June 15 [10 favorites]


[One deleted. There is no universe in which pedophilia or child sex abuse jokes are funny, please don't.]
posted by Eyebrows McGee (staff) at 6:23 PM on June 15 [28 favorites]




@taniel: Diana Becton has been elected to a full term as District Attorney of Contra Costa County, clearing the 50% threshold to avoid a runoff.

Criminal justice reformers had rallied behind Becton, while police unions backed her opponent.
posted by Chrysostom at 6:50 PM on June 15 [28 favorites]


I've found that a good rule of thumb is to vote against whoever is backed by police unions. It has thus far served me well. I have, sadly, had to break this rule occasionally because there are so many goddamn prosecutors running for office (eg Kamala Harris) but it works as a broad stroke.
posted by Justinian at 6:53 PM on June 15 [18 favorites]


Breitbart: Photos: Inside Shelter for Illegal Alien Children Separated from Parents.

The photos are all explicitly supplied by the facility and HHS. Breitbart gives the full Theresienstadt Treatment here and it's disgusting.

They are also given toiletries and lessons in hygiene — literally how to flush a toilet, brush their teeth, and operate the shower, which some of the children may have never seen in their lives.

“Cages,” these are not. What is immediately striking about the facility is the enthusiasm and care of the staff who work there. One administrator greeted the journalists on the tour: “Welcome to our home.” The children at the facility seemed genuinely happy, despite their unfortunate circumstances and the trauma of their long journey.

The real scandal is how the media have portrayed the shelters.


That the writer of this propaganda's bio includes "named to Forward’s 50 'most influential' Jews in 2017" is a hypershande. An ultrashande. At least the original Nazi propaganda didn't include "we even have to teach the disgusting little things how to use a toilet, and they thank us for it."
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:00 PM on June 15 [32 favorites]


@C_Sommerfeldt: NEW: Rudy Giuliani tells @NYDailyNews "things might get cleaned up with some presidential pardons" when the "whole thing is over" in light of Paul Manafort being sent to jail.

Giuliani apparently told the same thing to CBS's Paula Reid: Giuliani tells me he advised POTUS not to pardon anyone before Mueller probe ends & POTUS agrees. But pardons possible *after* Mueller probe

Josh Marshall: Notable that Rudy felt it was necessary to explicitly reassure Manafort today that a pardon is in the cards.

Adam Davidson: But, as with everything he does, it's impotent. Manafort's most well-documented alleged crimes occurred in NY and Virginia whose AGs will, surely, happily prosecute him.
posted by Doktor Zed at 7:07 PM on June 15 [17 favorites]


@chrislhayes:
According to internal [CBP] documents obtained by @allinwithchris, from June 3-11, fully ***91%*** of parents being prosecuted at the border and forcibly separated from their children are being prosecuted for a *misdemeanor.*

Additionally in that period of time 366 children were separated from their parents. Also, and this is still a bit unclear, the documents appear to show that child separation is happening *before* the decision to prosecute. That means there are parents being ripped away from their kids who ***aren't even being prosecuted.****
...
Let me say this: I think people should be careful about directing their rage at the social service providers running the facilities that house migrant kids. Some of the facilities are clearly subpar, and there’s obviously a range in their quality. But unaccompanied minors are a real policy challenge. These are basically orphanages, and the best orphanage in the world is not going to be a very happy place, for the most part. Which is why it is so utterly insane and barbaric to *exacerbate* this already difficult challenge by actively prying children away from their parents and sending them to facilities not equipped to deal with their specific trauma or age group.
...
They have implemented a policy of family separation without constructing a clear process for family reunification.
posted by zachlipton at 7:09 PM on June 15 [52 favorites]


Rene Boucher, who beat the crap out of Rand Paul is sentenced to 30 days in prison.

I'm sympathetic to his plight, but you don't beat the shit out of people. All things considered though, 30 days seems pretty light for breaking the ribs of a Senator, and given that the Senator is Rand Paul, he may not have such a hard time in the clink.
posted by rhizome at 7:09 PM on June 15 [4 favorites]


if a family has siblings that are brother and sister, they are seperated as well. At this facility in El Cajon, brothers and sisters are allowed to see each other once a week.

Goddamn. These people.
posted by petebest at 7:11 PM on June 15 [21 favorites]


Breitbart: Photos: Inside Shelter for Illegal Alien Children Separated from Parents.

The photos are all explicitly supplied by the facility and HHS. Breitbart gives the full Theresienstadt Treatment here and it's disgusting.


Jamelle Bouie (Slate)
“slaves got free food and housing, you know”

---

Plus the fact that conditions are a small part of the issue. With the main issue being THEY ARE FUCKING TORN AWAY FROM THEIR PARENTS FOR GOD KNOWS HOW LONG AND GOD KNOWS HOW THEY REUNITE.
posted by chris24 at 7:16 PM on June 15 [45 favorites]


Step back from the intricacies of the IG Report on the FBI and DOJ and there’s a lot of reason to believe that James Comey made what all consider a bad decision in large part because he and his advisors feared leaks and that these leaks would encourage claims of political bias against Comey and the FBI.

In my perfect imaginary future, the Clinton investigation was cover for the Russia one. Like the FBI was all "Benghazi? Emails? Sure, man, we're all over it. They got us working in shifts!" Meanwhile Page and Stone and everybody else you can think of was yakking their fool heads off. It's good to dream.
posted by rhizome at 7:17 PM on June 15 [2 favorites]


Yeah I feel like "look how bad conditions aren't!" is a red herring along the lines of "we should arm teachers" to distract from the real issue of "get rid of guns." these kids could be staying in fucking Trump hotels and it wouldn't change the fact that they're being subjected to extreme and long-lasting psychological trauma. I wish someone would point that out in response any time someone suggests conditions aren't really THAT bad. obviously having horrible conditions makes things WORSE, but it's not like having "good" conditions like TV and sports and bathrooms or whatever bullshit this is makes any of this remotely okay.
posted by robotdevil at 7:23 PM on June 15 [13 favorites]


Black Phoenix Alchemy Lab is raising money for RAICES; the introductory section of the product page has info on that organization, and links to other nonprofits in this fight and to key pieces of legislation. Sanders and Sessions are also referred to as "monstrous, merciless ghouls," as in, "Boy howdy, you monstrous, merciless ghouls, does Black Phoenix Alchemy Lab have a Bible lesson for you."

In the email announcing the fundraiser, BPAL asks for signal boosts:

"Our post on Facebook was blocked from getting a paid boost (which businesses have to use in order to reach all their followers) because we're not authorized to buy "political advertisements." Let that sink in for a moment: under the new rules, a series of products raising money for a legal aid charity is considered a political advertisement. And even if we become authorized to boost posts like these, they'll be accompanied by some kind of "this is a political ad" disclaimer."
posted by Iris Gambol at 7:26 PM on June 15 [36 favorites]


Please. The Prosperity Gospel is not Calvinism.

Here's an observation that bears thinking about: the Puritans still have two descendant denominations today: the Unitarian Universalist movement, and the United Church of Christ. Both are very liberal, not despite their origin with the Puritans, but because of it. And Sessions's use of Romans 13 is the touchstone that shows it.

When the English settled the coast, the north was settled by the Puritans. The South was settled by cadet sons: men seeking to recreate the same great estates their elder brothers were inheriting back home. They were intent on establishing the same social order, with the lower orders induced by any means, to accept their lot in life, and so the church in the South made frequent use of ROmans 13.

Up north, the Mayflower disaster forced the Puritans to set up their government without any authorization from home, so when they started deciding their affairs with the New England town meeting, they became the "powers that be" and thus had no use for Romans 13.

Sessions has just restated the Civil War, albeit in a fashion that is bloodless and may remain so. But once again a northern victory is a must.
posted by ocschwar at 7:31 PM on June 15 [38 favorites]


Note: the photographs of the tour were provided by HHS after review by officials to ensure the privacy of the children in the shelter. Journalists were not allowed to take their own photos or videos, for the same reason.

Huh, that didn't seem to be a concern for Breitbart in 2014. I wonder what could have been different then?
posted by hades at 7:34 PM on June 15 [6 favorites]


@NBCNews:
WATCH: A speech by VP Pence was interrupted by protesters against the Trump administration's policy of separating migrant children from their parents at the border.
VIDEO
posted by chris24 at 7:39 PM on June 15 [59 favorites]


Nobody ever said the HHS detention centers have cages. The CBP/ICE holding facilities are the places with chain-link enclosures, cement floors, shock blankets, and also family segregation.
posted by FelliniBlank at 7:40 PM on June 15 [9 favorites]


Jackie Calmes of the LA Times:
"Why are you lying about it, sir?"
That's what WH transcript of Trump's remarks today TWICE records reporters asking:
1-to his repeated claim IG report "exonerated" him (it had no'g to do w/Russia probe)
2-to his blaming splitting families at border to Dems & a nonexistent law
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:09 PM on June 15 [39 favorites]


When Democrats retake control, there's no looking "forward not backwards" this time.


oh honey
posted by moorooka at 8:12 PM on June 15 [32 favorites]


because we're not authorized to buy "political advertisements."

To be clear, they’re selling perfume scents with biblical names in order to raise money for legal aid. And Facebook has decided that’s “political advertising.”

So I’m guessing the only political advertisement that FB will actually stop will be things like this, while the FSB has the means to jump through FB’s hoops.

I cannot wait to see that company burned to the ground.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:21 PM on June 15 [31 favorites]


When Democrats retake control, there's no looking "forward not backwards" this time.


oh honey


I swear I can hear them building the table to take things off of as I type.
posted by non canadian guy at 8:35 PM on June 15 [16 favorites]


Perhaps we could not pre-decide that we are screwed?
posted by Chrysostom at 8:44 PM on June 15 [66 favorites]


Perhaps we could not pre-decide that we are screwed?

I would like to append "and instead pre-decide that we're going to nail these crooks?"
posted by nikaspark at 8:57 PM on June 15 [34 favorites]


Tomorrow's Daily News front page:

Callous. Craven. Soulless. Trump.
posted by chris24 at 9:03 PM on June 15 [35 favorites]


Iris Gambol: Sanders and Sessions are also referred to as "monstrous, merciless ghouls," as in, "Boy howdy, you monstrous, merciless ghouls, does Black Phoenix Alchemy Lab have a Bible lesson for you."

I love BPAL so much, and am furious on their behalf about how Facebook's new rules are blocking their attempts to raise awareness about important issues. I, um, may have placed an imprudently indulgent order of biblical-themed scents earlier tonight. (Talk about sentences I never thought I'd write...)
posted by Superplin at 9:16 PM on June 15 [13 favorites]


For those in the El Paso area Beto is leading a march protesting the separation of families at the Tornillo site Tornillo site
posted by wobumingbai at 9:25 PM on June 15 [31 favorites]


They cannot conceive that the system, in a country they love that has given them so much, treats people this way regularly. So they conclude that prosecutors have a bias against them or are being directed by powerful people with bias. How else could they be treated like this?

By contrast, when I've represented poor people -- people who grew up in neighborhoods with frequent police contact, people of color, etc. -- they do not see conspiracy. They see the things done to them as the system working as usual.


I'm barely in the threads rn because my husband is in the hospital but this perfectly reflects my experience working in public health and government benefits. Middle class and better white folks who come to need the system experience it and think "wow, this is horribly unfair and shitty!" and then jump to "it must be because I'm white and you're discriminating against me because all those poor POC get lots of benefits super easily! Fox News Told Me So!" So they want to make benefits even HARDER to get for people (who aren't them) somehow thinking that will end up helping them out because of their zero sum thinking, I guess.

Whereas poor POC are never surprised when you tell them you have to put them on a waiting list or that you can't help them or that they need yet another piece of paper before they can get help. They are used to the way it works and are just grateful for anything you can do for them. They are used to the world being horribly unfair and shitty to them.

I just started telling people "well, you keep voting Republicans to be in charge of the state and they keep cutting the funding, so if you feel you need our services you should contact them."
posted by threeturtles at 9:38 PM on June 15 [103 favorites]


Yes yes yes. Formerly middle class white people are shocked, SHOCKED I tell you, that there is no real help for them. "You mean I'm going to be evicted?!?" Yep! "I can't live on that!" You sure can't!

I also tell them to call their elected officials.
posted by Mavri at 10:05 PM on June 15 [46 favorites]


soundguy99: "Remember he's got a combative toddler's understanding of everything. I'm sure the only thing that stuck in his head about international trade is something like, "We buy more stuff from them than they buy from us.""

Remember this trade war began with the Cheeto's withdrawal from TPP because it was a key Obama policy. The other parties to that deal still got together and, after stripping all the burdensome and heavy handed IP regulation that the US had required to sign on, signed a deal that excludes the US. And now the Cheeto wants back in to TPP but for some reason the other parties don't feel like making concessions now. I really can't imagine why.

And in typical Cheeto fashion he's on record as thinking TPP was a handout to China even though the deal excludes China and was structured as a counter to China's influence.

hades: "If you use the Signal desktop app, for example, it saves its message logs in plain text, so be sure to use an encrypted filesystem, a strong login/encryption password, and a short timeout on your screen lock. And still frequently wipe your history. If the app has a "disappearing messages" feature, use it. The app is only as good as your use of it."

And everyone you correspond with.
posted by Mitheral at 10:24 PM on June 15 [18 favorites]


Its "disappearing messages" feature seems to enforce the disappearance on both ends of the conversation, but I guess you can't necessarily trust that your co-conspirators haven't compiled their own version of the app which doesn't. But, yes, if your adversary knows who you are corresponding with through some channel other than recovering the messaging logs from your device, you'd better hope their operational security is as good as yours.
posted by hades at 10:33 PM on June 15 [2 favorites]


If you're under federal investigation your problems aren't Signal.
posted by odinsdream at 10:35 PM on June 15 [18 favorites]


NYT: Video Shows Border Patrol Vehicle Hitting Native American Man, Then Driving Away

Video and press release. The Tohono O'Odham Nation straddles the border and since it supports human rights, BP/ICE have motive to intimidate them. Or, in this case, try to kill them.
posted by Rust Moranis at 10:41 PM on June 15 [58 favorites]


Re ...Beto is leading a march protesting the separation of families at the Tornillo site.

This was a last minute change. Like they decided this today. He was scheduled to do two town halls in the Houston area Sunday which they rescheduled for July in order to do this march instead. Last Monday Beto flew down to the busiest Texas border crossing in McAllen to talk to people that work there and people trying to cross (facebook video). It's hard to listen to, it made me cry at times. But then he flew back to DC and talked about it all week to people there.

Cruz meanwhile has said nothing about this all week. I called his stupid Houston office every day to see if he had made any change to his statement from weeks ago in support of separating families. All I got out of Cruz's people is "we are monitoring the situation" with no details of what that actually entailed.

When I canvass this will be one of my stories of why I'm voting for Beto. When we were watching this horrific news develop this week, Beto worked to bare witness, shed light on the issue, and make change. Cruz spent his time trying to troll a television comedian on Twitter.

I have a full time job. I also work full time volunteering for Beto O'Rourke because I want him to be my senator SO BAD. He is the most genuine person I've ever met. He truly wants to serve us, to make government work for us. I know it's a long shot. But I'm not alone in this state that's this invested either.
posted by dog food sugar at 10:50 PM on June 15 [105 favorites]


but I guess you can't necessarily trust that your co-conspirators haven't compiled their own version

Why would you guess that the carrier wasn’t archiving all your messages? Which could be shared with authorities with big enough subpoenas?

This is all trivial.
posted by notyou at 11:40 PM on June 15


Why would you guess that the carrier wasn’t archiving all your messages?

Not to derail too much, but because that's one of the problems that Signal and similar apps solve. The encryption is performed on the endpoints, so even if the server keeps copies of the encrypted messages it passes, it can not decrypt them in a useful timeframe, nor can anyone else who gets access to them by subpoena, man in the middle attack, or any other means. So it's just easier to throw you in jail until you give up the passcode to your device. Which is why it'd be best if there's nothing for them to find once you do that.
posted by hades at 11:51 PM on June 15 [7 favorites]


I guess this could be a derail. I have no knowledge nor expertise in digital communication or cryptography whatsoever. Why would you guess that anyone in that chain of somebodies managing your message at this late date can’t crack yer code a lot easier than you expect?
posted by notyou at 12:03 AM on June 16


Strong cryptography—the type used by these apps—is still legal in the US, that's why.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 12:34 AM on June 16 [6 favorites]


Mainly because the underlying encryption technologies are well understood, and nobody working in the public side of the field has come up yet with ways to break them in a reasonable time frame. That doesn't mean that their counterparts at the NSA haven't, but the likelihood is low. The newer bits of the protocol which build on the well-understood encryption primitives are, admittedly, less well-vetted, but there has been some analysis of those which point towards them working as intended.

The technical specs of the protocol are published online, as is the source code of the apps and servers. It could make someone's academic career to find a significant flaw in the protocol or implementation, and so far the only vulnerability described has been one which would let someone who took over the WhatsApp server inject themself as a participant in a group chat, but not in a way that the other participants wouldn't notice, and not in a way that would let them see previous messages. (By the same token, though, someone could probably make a good chunk of money by finding a flaw and selling it to the NSA, so...)

The math involved in this sort of thing is incredibly complicated, so it's hard to give a good defense of it to someone who doesn't have the background (especially when I don't have the background myself, except for some undergrad-level stuff I did 20 years ago). But based on the report that the FBI now has hundreds of Michael Cohen's encrypted messages, either the encryption is completely broken and the NSA has given up a huge advantage by letting that be known, or the FBI hacked his phone and recovered the messages which were stored on it, which is something we know they've done in other cases.
posted by hades at 12:56 AM on June 16 [14 favorites]


Or Cohen gave them access.
posted by fullerine at 12:59 AM on June 16 [8 favorites]


According to this Mother Jones article by Dan Friedman, Manafort has been using a sneaky practice known as "foldering" that can be used to share messages through an email application without actually sending any emails.

"Greg Andres, an attorney on Mueller’s probe, said Manafort has engaged in the art of “foldering.” As Andres noted, foldering involves giving multiple people access to a single email account so they each can read emails created as drafts. (A message is never transmitted—which means it cannot be intercepted—and usually a message is destroyed after being read.) Foldering is a way to “hide the fact that you’re sharing information,” Andres explained."

posted by TwoToneRow at 1:00 AM on June 16 [24 favorites]


Petraeus did the same thing, and al-Qaeda before him. The FBI is pretty hip to this trick.
posted by zachlipton at 1:03 AM on June 16 [20 favorites]


Jesus Christ! We don't even treat American criminals that way. If you commit an offense as a juvenile, you may be (at most) imprisoned for the rest of your childhood, but then your record gets sealed and you get released. You get a fresh start - not "tried as an adult" for the offense you committed during your childhood. Yes I know there are some exceptions for especially heinous crimes, but it is not just a general policy that you go to juvey until age 18 and then start the prosecution all over again as an adult!
posted by Joey Buttafoucault at 7:57 PM on June 15 [28 favorites +] [!]
What? No. America murders children holding you guns in open carry states. Children of color are getting suspended and expelled from pre-school. High school girls are getting slammed to the floor from their desks. And this isn’t about anything inherent in these children, Black men in America who hold college degrees have a harder time finding employment than white convicted felons.

Let’s be very clear that white male children get a lot of leeway in the judicial system here, but extrajudicial punishment of children of color is ongoing and horrific. The judicial system is no better.
posted by bilabial at 1:04 AM on June 16 [32 favorites]


Giuliani tells me he advised POTUS not to pardon anyone before Mueller probe ends & POTUS agrees. But pardons possible *after* Mueller probe

So Mueller drags his investigation out as long as possible, building up an impeccable body of evidence to hand to state prosecutors in every defendant's case, and doesn't "end" his probe until the conclusion of his indictment against the siting President.

Which Trump challenges in court, naturally, dragging the whole process out another year minimum, as Mueller racks up guilty pleas, flips lieutenants and keeps building a mountain of evidence against the President. Worst case scenario: Trump rides out his presidency to face a 67-count indictment on January 22, 2021.
posted by msalt at 1:08 AM on June 16 [7 favorites]


Remember this trade war began with the Cheeto's withdrawal from TPP because it was a key Obama policy

True, but at the same time lets not let it fall into the memory hole that the TPP was also opposed by a significant chunk of the progressive movement. Killing TPP was a terrible idea held by a lot of people. They got what they wanted and I wonder how they feel that has worked out for us.
posted by Justinian at 1:19 AM on June 16 [23 favorites]


But the best case is Mueller turns in his report fairly soon, and it is so damning even Republicans vote to impeach him... I know I shouldn't hold my breath. I am anyway.

It's clear though that Trump uses the fact that the legal system works so slowly to shield his actions. One of the scariest things about him to me is that he's not interested in acting lawfully. He just does whatever he wants knowing it will take the courts years to catch up. It's honestly given me a new appreciation for how Nazi Germany likely happened - too quickly for any government's bureaucracy to respond. It took what, two years after his misuse of his foundation's money was detailed and published in the news for legal proceedings to start? The courts seem generally powerless to stop him until it's too late.
posted by xammerboy at 1:34 AM on June 16 [20 favorites]


The BEST case scenario is one in which a large number of Republican politicians, including Pence, McConnell, Ryan, Nunes, Cruz, etc, and the Party itself are ALSO indicted for/ convicted of money laundering and obstruction of justice.

I don't hold my breath, but I do dream.
posted by Kelrichen at 3:38 AM on June 16 [42 favorites]


I was at a bbq yesterday and was talking to a friends grandfather. He brought up politics. I cringed- old white dude with money talking to me about politics, no thank you. Anyway, there were about half a dozen two year olds there running around. He said to me, “looking at all these kids, I don’t care what party you are, but separating them from their parents is inhuman.” That was that.

Most people don’t care about political scandals or oligarchs or laundering money or even politics really, but what Trump is doing is pure evil, and I think many people are starting to recognize it. He’s not some buffoon loudmouth who some people hate and some people love-he’s the guy ripping kids out of their parents arms and putting them in camps.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 3:41 AM on June 16 [93 favorites]


I Was Fired for Making Fun of Trump
I should’ve seen it coming. When I had lunch with my new boss a few months ago, he informed me that the paper’s publisher believed that the editorial cartoonist was akin to an editorial writer, and that his views should reflect the philosophy of the newspaper.

That was a new one to me.

I was trained in a tradition in which editorial cartoonists are the live wires of a publication — as one former colleague put it, the “constant irritant.” Our job is to provoke readers in a way words alone can’t. Cartoonists are not illustrators for a publisher’s politics
posted by octothorpe at 4:48 AM on June 16 [83 favorites]


According to this Mother Jones article by Dan Friedman, Manafort has been using a sneaky practice known as "foldering" that can be used to share messages through an email application without actually sending any emails.

"Greg Andres, an attorney on Mueller’s probe, said Manafort has engaged in the art of “foldering.” As Andres noted, foldering involves giving multiple people access to a single email account so they each can read emails created as drafts. (A message is never transmitted—which means it cannot be intercepted—and usually a message is destroyed after being read.) Foldering is a way to “hide the fact that you’re sharing information,” Andres explained."


Yeah, I don't know. I could see this kind of breathless mystification used against Democrats pretty easily. Obviously using a drafts folder makes it look sneaky, but taking his identity out of it I could see this being the legitimate product of a desire to separate shared work-notes etc from actual communications, and being an older dude who is just not going to learn how to use Another Fucking Program just to share document drafts etc. Would it be so sinister if it was G:\internal\privileged\drafts ?

You'd be amazed at the kind of weird things users manage to do with Outlook Shared Folders and .PSTs and .OSTs etc. They'll put stuff in there that makes Exchange say "I dunno, man, this is your problem now"
posted by snuffleupagus at 5:03 AM on June 16 [3 favorites]


The Feinstein Problem - California’s primary showed why the Democratic Party is stuck in place.
The Democratic Party is a gerontocracy driven primarily by careerism and convenience. The pathologies that make Feinstein’s return to the Senate a given and convince Democrats burning cash on the Republican Party’s Blankenships, Akins, and nobodies out in California are the dynamics keeping unambiguously corrupt New Jersey Sen. Robert Menendez in the party’s good graces. They are the pathologies that encouraged Nancy Pelosi to resist asking John Conyers—an easily replaceable congressman representing one of safest Democratic seats in the country, a man who’d been in Congress for over a half-century—to step down for over a week after he was credibly accused of sexual assault and harassment by over half a dozen women. They are the pathologies that allow Bill Clinton to dismiss questions about his sexual misconduct with confidence that party leaders will never cast him aside. They are the pathologies that encouraged the Hillary Clinton campaign to consider, seriously and aptly, adopting “Because It’s Her Turn” as its slogan in 2016. The Democratic Party is a professional fraternity only secondarily interested in advancing the proposals in its grab bag of policy ideas—proposals that Democratic candidates are, in fact, free to oppose provided they can raise cash easily and appeal to voters who will inevitably tire of them and vote for the Republican candidates and policies they are likely to eventually prefer.

Careerism and convenience are, of course, important forces in the Republican Party as well. But the Republican Party is about to select its third speaker of the House this decade. This is churn driven largely by internal debate and dissent about how the Republican Party can best advance its particular vision for American society—how it can more deeply empower the white, wealthy, and thus worthy citizens of this country. Every Republican politician is, really, no more than an instrument for that project, and the Republican Party is not terribly particular about who they hire to fulfill it: Accused pedophiles and mad reality show hosts are welcome to apply. The majority of Republican politicians live in constant fear that they’ll be canned for someone who might be more deeply committed to the party’s vision. The vast majority of Democratic politicians do not share a similar fear, a problem given that the well-being of struggling Americans and the planet depends on the Democratic Party uniformly taking on a bold and cohesive ideological agenda. It’s only the striving opportunism of potential candidates like Kirsten Gillibrand and Cory Booker that’s moving the party in this direction. “The days of Democrats biding our time, biting our tongue, and triangulating at the margins,” De León crowed in February, “are over.” They are not, actually. Not yet.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:11 AM on June 16 [17 favorites]


I could see this being the legitimate product of a desire to separate shared work-notes etc from actual communications

Storing stuff in folders shouldn't be assumed in and of itself to mean wrongdoing. But it should be pretty simple for investigators to distinguish legitimate use from a backchannel for communication.

If messages are always saved into a folder by someone logged in from 1 IP address/range and soon after opened and deleted by someone with a different IP address who then creates and saves a different message...
posted by duoshao at 5:13 AM on June 16 [10 favorites]


If the kids are not bargaining chips, this is pure malicious racist evil. If the kids are bargaining chips, this is pure hostage-taking evil. How do you negotiate with people willing to abuse kids to get leverage?

But that’s precisely my point. There IS no way out for the Dems because we fundamentally care about human lives in a way that the Republicans simply do not, wether because of political calculation of just plain evilness (and is there even a difference?). We are not even playing the same game because, to us, it can’t be a game.

Rs hold all the cards because they do not give a shit. How do we handle it? How do we solve it while protecting children and immigrants? I don’t fucking know.
posted by lydhre at 5:16 AM on June 16 [15 favorites]


I could see this being the legitimate product of a desire to separate shared work-notes etc from actual communications

The devil doesn’t really need more advocates, thanks.

Yes, this could, if you took it in isolation and didn’t consider all the many other ways this guy was clearly trying to avoid monitoring, look innocent. That’s why he was doing it.

And let’s not say “Oh, this could be used against Democrats, too!” on the same day that the GOP is literally claiming that a nonexistent immigration law is the Democrats’ fault while they’re in the minority. There is no “handing them weapons” anymore.
posted by Etrigan at 5:20 AM on June 16 [30 favorites]


A message is never transmitted—which means it cannot be intercepted

Huh? A message is totally still transmitted, or else the users wouldn't see anything on their ends. It's just not formatted as an email. I find it a bit hard to believe that the teched-up end of the FBI or actual no-shit spooks that were surveilling him weren't pretty comprehensively examining every packet into and out of his IP address and subpoenaing (or just hacking and controlling) his email and other accounts.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 5:22 AM on June 16 [14 favorites]


soon after opened and deleted by someone with a different IP address who then creates and saves a different message...

This is the sketchy part. But from a system perspective it's no different than everyone using the same KSTREETDBAGCO\plutocrat creds to access a shared Outlook folder. Kludges like that are not unsual.

It's not that I don't want to see Manafort speared for spoliation if that's what happened. I just don't want the next 30 years of my life to involve endless bickering over the scope of discovery because "foldering."
posted by snuffleupagus at 5:30 AM on June 16 [7 favorites]


Huh? A message is totally still transmitted, or else the users wouldn't see anything on their ends.

With email, using SMTP between the mailservers, the message is transmitted in plain text; the message body may still be encrypted, but the sender and recipient addresses are by necessity readable so the ISPs involved have that information, and law enforcement can request that. And with the message body unencrypted the entire message can be easily read.

If you only use foldering (or another way to edit a document by several people in sequence), the people accessing that folder remotely can do so over a VPN or using TeamViewer or similar, then yes, the message content is transmitted in a way, but it's not openly readable.

Files created and deleted (either within a mail program using foldering, or as straight-up documents of some sort) still leave traces anyway. Unless you're well-versed in computer hygiene, which, given the shoddiness of trying to hide the traces of their other activities, I would not expect that to be anywhere near good enough to keep law enforcement out of the message contents.
posted by Stoneshop at 5:41 AM on June 16 [4 favorites]


[Folks, the foldering thing is beginning to take over the entire discussion. Maybe there's enough interest and info to make a separate post and thread about this, but let's let it rest here for now. ]
posted by taz (staff) at 5:59 AM on June 16 [8 favorites]


This morning, Paul Manafort woke up in jail.

That's not really news, but I like typing that sentence.

This morning, Paul Manafort woke up in jail.

As to why he belongs there, Just Security has a damning overview article Paul Manafort = Evidence of Collusion with nine key findings in the public record that show evidence of multiple violations of federal campaign finance law and a conspiracy with Russian individuals either aligned with Putin or working on behalf of the Russian government. It's not news to us, but it's succinct enough to forward to anyone you know who may be still on the fence.
posted by Doktor Zed at 6:12 AM on June 16 [83 favorites]


From yesterday: Think of [NY prosecutor Underwood's] Trump Foundation filings as her warm-up swings...

Indeed. Farenthold wrote copious articles about how fishy the Trump Foundation was more than a year ago. It was all documented and in the public domain. Dissolving the Trump Foundation, disbursing its paltry assets to legitimate charities, and shutting off that channel of grift for the Trump crime family is low hanging fruit. Wait til she gets going.
posted by Gelatin at 6:36 AM on June 16 [6 favorites]


This morning, Paul Manafort woke up in jail.

That's not really news, but I like typing that sentence.

This morning, Paul Manafort woke up in jail.


I am decidedly not a morning person, but I thought about this while I was waking up and I gotta say, the thought of Manafort waking up the first time in jail while you're making breakfast and getting ready for the day gives you quite a pep in your step.
posted by jason_steakums at 6:46 AM on June 16 [52 favorites]


I don't know what I'm supposed to do with Andrew Sullivan, but this article wasn't wrong:

Trump Is Making Us All Live in His Delusional Reality Show (archive.org link because nymag's cookie verification widget is shit)

The president believes what he wants to believe, creates a reality that fits his delusions, and then insists, with extraordinary energy and stamina, that his delusions are the truth. His psychological illness, moreover, is capable of outlasting anyone else’s mental health. Objective reality that contradicts his delusions is discounted as “fake news” propagated by “our country’s greatest enemy,” i.e., reporters. . . It’s vital for us to remember this every day: Almost no one else in public life is so openly living in his own disturbed world.

This past week was a kind of masterpiece in delusion. . .
[insert agog recap of the last scaramucci] I’m not opposed to his meeting Kim Jong-un, by the way. It’s worth a shot. If somehow Trump’s gambit pays off, he’ll deserve a lot of credit. I even see the point of withdrawing U.S. troops at some point. I’m basically with him in unraveling the American empire. But I’m afraid I cannot forgive or forget Trump’s praise for the most hideously totalitarian regime on the planet, for a bloodthirsty scion who conducts regular public hangings, keeps his subjects in a state of mind-control, holds hundreds of thousands in concentration camps, and threatens the world with nuclear destruction. To watch an American president give his tacit blessing to all of that, to laud Kim for being “rough” on his people, right on the heels of attacking every democratic ally, is an obscenity.

And this was the response of the secretary of State, when asked, inevitably, how the U.S. could in any way verify North Korea’s promised denuclearization: “I find that question insulting and ridiculous and, frankly, ludicrous.” It’s ludicrous, he explained, because the president said there will be verification of denuclearization. And so there will be. Get that? Just lean into the delusion, and everything will be well. Trump’s various mouthpieces have resorted to exactly that formula, when asked difficult or obvious questions that assume a reality different from Trump’s. The empirical questions — those that reference the real world — are “ludicrous,” “inappropriate,” or “ridiculous.” But then when the Trump peons can’t answer the question, because it would reveal Trump as a fantasist, what else are they supposed to do? Show a propaganda video made by the National Security Council?


No mention of the traumatizing children decree. Otherwise a reasonable, if entirely-too-late analysis.
posted by petebest at 7:34 AM on June 16 [15 favorites]


This morning, Paul Manafort woke up in jail.

Schadenfreude aside, former Assistant United States Attorney Mitchell Epner @MitchellEpner puts this into real-world context:
Pre-trial lockup in DC is no joke. It is certainly no Club Fed (which is not all that nice in itself). He will be in a real cell, with real bars, surrounded by other real accused felons. There is very little sorting of pre-trial detainees.

There is very little sorting of pre-trial detainees. He will be mixed with people that would eventually serve in Maximum and Medium security prisons.

If Paul Manafort wants to get out of pre-trial general population, the quickest and safest way to do it is to flip. This is HUGE pressure.

Being imprisoned before trial is a huge detriment to being able to prepare your defense.

Instead of going to the lawyer's office everyday and working around the clock with all of the documents and experts available, you can only do work during visiting hours with the materials that the attorneys can carry in. This is also HUGE pressure to flip.
Nevertheless, I just like typing the sentence, "This morning, Paul Manafort woke up in jail."
posted by Doktor Zed at 7:36 AM on June 16 [62 favorites]


This morning, Paul Manafort woke up in jail.


INDEED!

And the Northern Neck Regional Jail has an inmate status website, and yes, on P26 there's

Number : 00045343
Name : MANAFORT, PAUL

Booking Date/Time : 6/15/2018 8:22:00 PM
Release Date/Time :


Housing Location : VIP
Visitation Day : FRI 2:15 P.M. TO 3:15 P.M.

Charges
Statute : 999 - FEDERAL CHARGE
Case Number: Bond Amount :
Offense Date : 06/15/2018 Arrest Date :

#include happy-dance.c
posted by mikelieman at 7:49 AM on June 16 [33 favorites]


Housing Location : VIP

Hoping that’s not what it sounds like, and he really is getting treated like everyone else
posted by schadenfrau at 7:53 AM on June 16 [7 favorites]




Hoping that’s not what it sounds like, and he really is getting treated like everyone else

Anything that's not gen pop or medical is solitary confinement.

It is not fun being VIP or PC or any sort of special status in any US prison.
posted by Definitely Not Sean Spicer at 8:00 AM on June 16 [2 favorites]


Please, Paul. Please flip in exchange for protection for you and your family. I’m actually really in the mood for a cake.
posted by schadenfrau at 8:02 AM on June 16 [11 favorites]


The Northern Neck Regional Jail is about 2 hours south of DC so think of it as a 4 hour tax on his lawyer's time every time they have to meet with him.
posted by peeedro at 8:05 AM on June 16 [9 favorites]




Michael Cohen spotted in NYC. Guy on street: "Hey, it's that guy that's going to jail! Awesome. Way to go, bud."
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:13 AM on June 16 [56 favorites]


It's like five hours from Brighton Beach, his handlers are going to be grouchy.
posted by snuffleupagus at 8:21 AM on June 16 [7 favorites]


There is very little sorting of pre-trial detainees. He will be mixed with people that would eventually serve in Maximum and Medium security prisons. If Paul Manafort wants to get out of pre-trial general population, the quickest and safest way to do it is to flip. This is HUGE pressure.

A public defender told me people that would otherwise be found innocent often plead guilty just to get out of the pre-trial prisons. Welcome to American motherfucker.
posted by xammerboy at 8:22 AM on June 16 [22 favorites]


"Welcome to American motherfucker"

said the banner at the secret CIA/FSB prisoner exchange next year
posted by snuffleupagus at 8:27 AM on June 16 [2 favorites]


Just to put this in historical perspective
“What broke the Watergate case was when James McCord got a 25-year sentence,” Akerman said when asked about the hearing while appearing on MSNBC’s “Velshi & Ruhle." “He was one of the Watergate burglars. He got a 25-year sentence. He was sitting in jail because that’s what made him crack and cooperate.”

But Akerman noted that Manafort, who is 69 years old, could soon be facing life in jail.

“And here it could be even worse,” Akerman said. “It could be the beginning of a life sentence. Paul Manafort, if he does not cooperate, may never ever see the outside of a jail cell.”
posted by xammerboy at 8:31 AM on June 16 [24 favorites]


I think Michael Cohen is more likely to be the key than Manafort. Manafort is not just protecting Trump, he's directly shielding Putin and the other Russian oligarchs. Life in prison isn't his worst outcome here, it's "falling" from a 16th story window or mysteriously "hanging himself" while in custody if he does flip.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:39 AM on June 16 [12 favorites]


It should be noted that fuckers like these never face consequences for anything, ever, so even if it was the coziest most hotel like prison ever it would be utter torture for him.

(I do not advocate extra efforts to provide them coziest most hotel like prisons beyond any that are part of broader prison reform for everyone.)
posted by Artw at 8:39 AM on June 16 [7 favorites]


This shit should have us out in the streets. Where is everyone?

I’ve been looking for a Bay Area protest and so far, unsuccessful. I don’t know if people are just protested out or what.


One way you can help is by donating to the Young Center for Immigrant Children's Rights. This kind of legal advocacy / investigative work is what a lot of the attorneys who were protesting at airports etc. are doing now.

Can't say I know what everyone else is up to.
posted by Rock 'em Sock 'em at 8:44 AM on June 16 [14 favorites]


It should be noted that fuckers like these never face consequences for anything, ever, so even if it was the coziest most hotel like prison ever it would be utter torture for him.

If I was stuck in a Marriott Fairfield Inn ( Motel ) for a month, and COULD NOT LEAVE THE ROOM, I would be singing within 2 weeks.
posted by mikelieman at 8:52 AM on June 16 [5 favorites]


Circle of Willis: Children at the Border (science podcast)
In this special episode of Circle of Willis I talk with five developmental scientists about what may be happening to the children who are currently being separated from their parents as part of a policy to deter immigration and asylum seekers at the southern border to the United States. We discuss what happens to the private emotional lives of these children, but also what happens to their brains and to their bodies.
posted by FelliniBlank at 9:00 AM on June 16 [10 favorites]


Paul Manafort, if he does not cooperate, may never ever see the outside of a jail cell.”
For Manafort, there’s the probability of a pardon if he sits tight until his trial September. That’s gotta factor in his calculation.
posted by chrchr at 9:00 AM on June 16 [8 favorites]


I don’t know if people are just protested out or what.

I'm not sure how much use protest actually is, in the current circumstances. Given the utterly baffling claims currently being made that these policies are somehow the Democrats' doing, I'm not sure how the administration could be pressed into changing course by protests, and it's not like the enactment of the "Muslim Ban," so mass protests while judges are being asked to rule on emergency injunctions won't help the same way this time.

I know that not everyone has the money to spare, but donations to RAICES and New Mexico Immigrant Law Center and other similar organisations (including those linked above) which are able to offer case-by-case legal assistance seem like the best way to help in this moment. You can't shame an administration comprised of people who can't feel shame.
posted by halation at 9:09 AM on June 16 [10 favorites]


Paul Manafort, if he does not cooperate, may never ever see the outside of a jail cell.”

Based on the things I’ve seen (polonium poisoning, nerve agent attacks, etc) I well imagine Paul Manafort sitting in jail for the rest of his life so that his children get to have a rest of theirs.
posted by nikaspark at 9:12 AM on June 16 [7 favorites]


Let’s face it, it’s highly likely all the bit players in this get a polonium breakfast wether they cooperate or not. Putin is meticulous on that front, and patient.
posted by Artw at 9:28 AM on June 16 [5 favorites]


(I do not advocate extra efforts to provide them coziest most hotel like prisons beyond any that are part of broader prison reform for everyone.)

I am all for prison and judicial reform but only on the condition that 'Law and Order' acolytes receive the benefits of the reforms last. This way we can ensure that the reforms are comprehensive and quick.
posted by srboisvert at 9:31 AM on June 16 [19 favorites]


I'm not sure how much use protest actually is, in the current circumstances.

I don’t know about anyone else, but I don’t do it in hopes the administration will feel shame and change their ways. I know this administration won’t. I do it so the average person walking down the street will realize that not everyone is putting their heads in the sand until re-election time. They see us, they honk, they hopefully go home and take some action, themselves. I do it so we get put on the news, and anyone watching sees that they are not alone in being upset about what’s happening. I do it so I can look at the real-life faces of the people who want to fight, not the avatar of someone who may or may not be a bot online. Real people. They bring their kids, and I see their little eyes taking it all in, learning the importance of standing up for what’s right. And it motivates me to do more for them.

And I consider it practice because I’m pretty convinced before this is over, we’re all going to have to take to the streets.
posted by greermahoney at 9:35 AM on June 16 [106 favorites]


Let’s face it, it’s highly likely all the bit players in this get a polonium breakfast wether they cooperate or not. Putin is meticulous on that front, and patient.

Nobody's heard a peep since late last year from Papadopoulos's mysterious contact Prof. Mifsud, for example.

(The only thing close to an update comes from his (estranged) wife, who claims Mueller was investigating him as unregistered agent of Israel.)
posted by Doktor Zed at 9:42 AM on June 16 [9 favorites]


I have seen the inside of jails like these (not as a guest of the state, fortunately) and even if you're fine chilling out by yourself in a small, spartan room with no human contact, the thing that's going to get to you is the boredom. If you're lucky you get some old books or magazines or something. If you're in an extremely nice jail, you might get a tablet. But even if you do, it's you and four bare walls and nothing but free time to sit and think about what you did and what's going to happen.
posted by Ghostride The Whip at 9:47 AM on June 16 [1 favorite]


Let's all remember to take the good times when they arrive. It's a weekend, it's a win, you've earned it: cake!

Welcome Home Uncle Joey
posted by petebest at 9:56 AM on June 16 [6 favorites]


The Presiding Bishop of the Episcopal Church tweeted:
“ It is not the Christian way and it is not the American way to separate children from their parents at the borders of this country.”
Some Christians get it.
posted by Biblio at 10:03 AM on June 16 [12 favorites]


Much like Jeff Flake tweets, what matters is how they vote.
posted by T.D. Strange at 10:21 AM on June 16 [9 favorites]


A new holding place for hundreds of immigrant children: A vacant warehouse in Houston

The space could hold up to 240 children, mostly "tender age" kids under 12, as well as pregnant and nursing teenagers.

But Texas non-profit Southwest Key Programs, which obtained a “lucrative” contract with the federal government, has signed a lease for the space and, according to its application, is requesting a license to hold up to 240 children, from “0 to 17” years of age.


Something about the use of the phrase "tender age" here turns my stomach.

Soon, the warehouse on the corner of Emancipation Avenue in downtown Houston will hold thousands of unaccompanied immigrant children.

Downtown Houston sounds very accessible to protesters and/or liberation armies.
posted by Rust Moranis at 10:24 AM on June 16 [42 favorites]


The Mifsud mystery notwithstanding, Russia doesn't tend to go after non-Russians outside Russia. Which is not to say that it doesn't happen, nor that there won't be other highly motivated mobsters who might like to see tongues silenced, but I wouldn't overplay the polonium teapot. Nor, if you do think Putin wants to waste potential informers, should you imagine that incarceration is a prophylactic.
posted by Devonian at 10:29 AM on June 16 [3 favorites]


NYT: How Trump Diverged From Other Presidents and Embraced a Policy of Separating Migrant Families. In which we learn just who the #1 most insistent WH proponent of the "Zero Tolerance" child concentration camp policy is, the one who pushed hard for it since 2016 despite administration misgivings. Go on, guess!
But Mr. Miller has expressed none of the president’s misgivings. “No nation can have the policy that whole classes of people are immune from immigration law or enforcement,” he said during an interview in his West Wing office this past week. “It was a simple decision by the administration to have a zero tolerance policy for illegal entry, period. The message is that no one is exempt from immigration law.”
posted by FelliniBlank at 10:32 AM on June 16 [12 favorites]


Normally killing a country's citizen inside that county's borders by a second country would be considered an Act of War.

With Comrade Bone Spurs in the driver's seat who knows what it might be construed as. Probably something along the lines of "I asked Putin three times, he said he didn't do it, he doesn't even know what balonium is".
posted by Definitely Not Sean Spicer at 10:33 AM on June 16 [19 favorites]


Much like Jeff Flake tweets, what matters is how they vote.

I’m an Episcopalian lay minister, and I can guarantee you that most of the folks in our pews are voting for Democrats.
posted by EarBucket at 10:42 AM on June 16 [24 favorites]


Coincidentally, this week I was just researching the breakdown by political parties for each major religious group/denomination in the US.

The Episcopalians definitely lean Dem. Now, when the leadership of the Mormons, or Nazarenes, or Southern Baptists issue such a statement, we’ll know we’ve hit a major turning point.
posted by darkstar at 10:59 AM on June 16 [10 favorites]


A public defender told me people that would otherwise be found innocent often plead guilty just to get out of the pre-trial prisons.

JFC this is a fucked up country.
posted by ook at 11:06 AM on June 16 [40 favorites]


when the leadership of the Mormons, or Nazarenes, or Southern Baptists issue such a statement, we’ll know we’ve hit a major turning point.

Well, potentially great news then. Can anyone verify this Atlantic report (by one Jonathan Merritt)?

Southern Baptists Call Off the Culture War
America’s largest Protestant group moves to cut ties with the Republican Party and re-engage with mainstream culture.

posted by msalt at 11:10 AM on June 16 [31 favorites]


Well, potentially great news then. Can anyone verify this Atlantic report (by one Jonathan Merritt)?

If true then we're probably about to see a white flight from religion.
posted by Definitely Not Sean Spicer at 11:23 AM on June 16 [19 favorites]


A public defender told me people that would otherwise be found innocent often plead guilty just to get out of the pre-trial prisons.

JFC this is a fucked up country.


And that isn't even getting into plea bargains (which constitute > 94% of felony convictions). If you are part of the disenfranchised* then it's actually the rational choice to take a plea bargain, utterly regardless of guilt, otherwise you can be gambling your life on the de facto coin toss of the injustice system. And the prejudiced whims of those who drag them into it....
Police officers have wide discretion in deciding whether a person is breaking the law, and they sometimes arrest people for such offenses as sleeping in public and sitting too long on a bench. One case involved a woman whose crime seemed to have been, in the words of the officer who filed the report, “walking down the road around 1:30 a.m.” with “no legitimate reason.”



* Literally after the conviction is on record.
posted by Buntix at 11:28 AM on June 16 [19 favorites]


If true then we're probably about to see a white flight from religion.

Works for me.
posted by msalt at 11:42 AM on June 16 [6 favorites]


When I see references to Kushner working on Prison Reform, I can't help being reminded of this old Soviet-era joke:
The Commissar tells his staff to take money out of the elementary education programs and put it into the prison system. When asked why, he says "I am thinking of my future. It's unlikely I will be spending it in elementary school.'

I see twitter users have had similar ideas. I didn't see this joke listed in the Wiki page on Russian Political Jokes, but it occurs to me that page might become increasingly relevant. For example, "Today, due to bad health and without regaining consciousness, Konstantin Ustinovich Chernenko took up the duties of Secretary General" could easily be reworked into a cabinet appointment announcement.

Also, whatever might come of 'prison reform', it would probably involve taking money out of worthwhile programs in order to give it to cronies.
posted by MtDewd at 11:50 AM on June 16 [5 favorites]


Sorry msalt, but I think Merritt's take is extremely rose-tinted. His only evidence that the Southern Baptist have "called off the culture war" is that they elected 45-year-old J.D. Greear to be the youngest president of the SBC ever. So, what does "Pastor J.D." think about the culture war? From his blog:
"The loss of gender identity has devastating consequences for society. God designed male and female, and society flourishes only as it lives according to His design. As I noted above, studies consistently show that the mother/father unit is the best environment for the rearing of children .... Grudem writes, “Every human nation on earth, every society of any size or permanence at all, has recognized and protected the institution of heterosexual marriage.” He cites a leading anthropologist who studied 86 failed societies, noting that no society was able to flourish after 3 generations once “strict marital monogamy” was abandoned as the standard."
On the question of whether the SBC stay out of politics and stop fighting same-sex marriage:
"My conclusion is that the government has the responsibility to protect the institution of marriage, an institution established by the Creator in the creation. Government did not invent marriage; government recognizes the institution established in the creation. To fail to to do so has devastating consequences for society."
There's lots more, including the usual cowardly disclaimer that lobbying to deny LGBTQ+ folks equal social and political standing doesn't mean he *hates* us. But yeah, Greear wants to end the culture war as much as his predecessor did, which is to say he wishes they wouldn't get such bad press for being raging bigots.
posted by This time is different. at 11:57 AM on June 16 [44 favorites]


Southern Baptist Convention, 1967:

WHEREAS, The Southern Baptist Convention reiterated in 1963 its historic position for separation of Church and State in its statement on "The Baptist Faith and Message" in these words: "Church and State should be separate. The State owes to every church protection and full freedom in the pursuit of its spiritual ends. In providing for such freedom no ecclesiastical group or denomination should be favored by the State more than any other . . . the Church should not resort to the civil power to carry on its work . . . the State has no right to impose taxes for the support of any form of religion." and,

WHEREAS, We desire to see all rights and freedoms guaranteed by the Constitution and Bill of Rights secured unto all persons, and

WHEREAS, An increasingly complex society constantly raises new questions in application of the separation principle,

Therefore, be it RESOLVED, That this 1967 session of the Southern Baptist Convention reaffirm its 1963 declaration for separation of Church and State, and

Be it further RESOLVED, That we urge the Congress of the United States to enact legislation which would help clarify responsibility of the judiciary to interpret the meaning of the United States Constitution for separation of Church and State, including constitutionality of federal funds in church-sponsored programs, and

Be it further RESOLVED, That we remind all who call themselves Baptists, distinguish carefully the services that are publicly supported from the Christian ministries that should be supported exclusively by the churches and hold to programs that are clearly committed to Christ and His kingdom.

posted by snuffleupagus at 12:06 PM on June 16 [7 favorites]


Not knowing what else to do, I've continued to canvass, because it is my jam. I'm a strong introvert, but I still find knocking doors easier than making phone calls. I like that a canvass packet is a discrete amount of work, a set number of doors to knock, people to talk to, and then it's finished. I get to be outside which is less great when it's 96 degrees out, but it's still some physical activity outside and sometimes people thank me for being out. As of today, I've knocked over 500 doors for Cary Kennedy who's running to be the first woman governor of Colorado. She's a great candidate and I hope she wins, but nobody seems to have good polling data and the primary is still officially 10 days way. Unaffiliated voters, who were eligible to vote in CO's primary for the first time and got both parties' ballots and several directives to only return one, are having some trouble following the instructions that they can only vote one party's ballot. I'm bummed about this, though it seems like the rejection rate is still below the average rate of other states with similar systems for primaries.
posted by danielleh at 12:21 PM on June 16 [26 favorites]


And that isn't even getting into plea bargains (which constitute > 94% of felony convictions). If you are part of the disenfranchised* then it's actually the rational choice to take a plea bargain, utterly regardless of guilt, otherwise you can be gambling your life on the de facto coin toss of the injustice system. And the prejudiced whims of those who drag them into it.

Bail and plea bargains are barbaric relics of feudalism that have no place in a decent society.
posted by The Whelk at 12:21 PM on June 16 [35 favorites]


A public defender told me people that would otherwise be found innocent often plead guilty just to get out of the pre-trial prisons.

JFC this is a fucked up country.


Manafort got home detention after never actually putting up the original 10$ million bail and the judge yesterday called it "a very difficult decision" to remand him to custody after being charged with fucking witness tampering in the very same trial.

Contrast with the way the system usually operates: Let’s not celebrate the fact that Manafort was jailed pre-trial. Let’s celebrate the careful, individualized, deliberate & due process he was afforded *before he was jailed pretrial while still presumed innocent. I wish my clients were afforded the same. and My very different experience: This *never would have happened to any of my clients. 1. Never could've afforded bail set in 1st place & would have been detained all this time pretrial. 2. Would've been arrested *immediately w/ bail revoked if any allegations of witness tampering.

Out of morbid curosity I texted my public defender friend in Kentucky what was his last bail hearing. He said "28 years old black male 1st degree assault for a bar fight, 25k bail, he'll sit in jail till trial because no way his family has that".
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:28 PM on June 16 [67 favorites]


JFC this is a fucked up country.

Gonna be fun seeing all the people suddenly upset about that aspect of it.

Oh look, Alan Dershowitz is one.

Very much looking forwards to having you on side applying this principles to others, Detah, especially those NOT attempting witness tampering.
posted by Artw at 12:35 PM on June 16 [4 favorites]


"28 years old black male 1st degree assault for a bar fight, 25k bail, he'll sit in jail till trial because no way his family has that"

You know it would be infinitely easier if bail for non-felonies could be pledged to your future earnings. If you don't show up to your hearing to sort the matter out the state just starts garnishing your wages until you do.
posted by Definitely Not Sean Spicer at 12:38 PM on June 16 [4 favorites]


Kentucky is actually one of the better bail states even, there's no for profit bailbondsmen, release is secured by posting a 10% bond managed by the courts system, and the courts are supposed to apply a risk assessment test to every case with statutory preference for low bail amounts. But still, people sit in jail till trial all the time, every day. $2500 might as well be 25,000 or 25 million if you don't have it.
posted by T.D. Strange at 12:46 PM on June 16 [8 favorites]


It's getting hot in Texas.

So Cruz in some weird effort to try and humanize himself, trolls Jimmy Kimmel on Twitter and challenges him to a dumb basketball game. Kimmel accepts. (fyi all these links are facebook video links). They then book a gym at Texas Southern University, a HBCU. The SAME gym that local residents raised money and booked for a town hall where they invited Cruz to come talk with them. Cruz completely ignored them. The Cruz / Kimmel game is on Juneteenth in a historic black neighborhood the 5th ward at an HBCU. Guess who else is in town? Beto O'Rourke.

As Cruz preps for his celebrity ball game with Kimmel, Beto choses to attend the Juneteenth Parade (this video is really charming in parts btw - people being really adorable and awesome). And then he changes his plans for two town halls in the area tomorrow to instead lead a Father's Day March to Tornilla, Texas, the site of the next tent city for children in crisis who will be separated from their families. To bare witness to this happening in our state.

Houston has never been much of a protesting city. But there are folks out at TSU protesting this game. That it's happening at all. That Cruz wants to humanize himself in a neighborhood he has ignored. That Cruz ignored his invite to this same gym by the community last year. That Cruz votes to cut funding for healthcare and schools and thinks the winner of his dumb game donating 5K to a local school or a local hospital make up for that.

I have friends out there (facebook photo). The neighborhood surrounding the school has Beto yard signs all over it. Residents are allowing protesters to stand in their yards facing the gym under oak trees . I don't know if Beto will show up to this or if he's left town already for the Tornillo March on the other side of the state.

But if he does Beto has the support of the neighborhood and the crowd. Many in the crowd wearing their Beto shirts.

It's been a crazy week. But now when I canvass I can tell the story of this week. When we were all saddened by this news. When our current sitting senator refused to change his support for separating children, instead spent his time planning and posting all over Twitter about a dumb game, Beto was talking with residents at Juneteenth. Beto was planning a March for children who need our help now.
posted by dog food sugar at 1:17 PM on June 16 [111 favorites]


I've posited the "Manafort afraid of polonium" reasoning for not flipping myself but, while we shouldn't reject it out of hand, it should be noted that as far as I am aware not a single person in the history of the program has been killed while in federal witness protection. That doesn't mean he might not fear being the first but it would be, literally, unprecedented.
posted by Justinian at 1:27 PM on June 16 [3 favorites]


How could he ever go into witness protection? Every facial recognition system already in existence would pick him out in a photo. When your phone is realtime tagging the people it sees, he's not going to be able to be anybody but himself.
posted by yesster at 1:32 PM on June 16 [3 favorites]


I wonder if Manafort is afraid that one or more of his kids might wind up with a polonium sammie for lunch one day? That might be a motive to keep quiet. I don't think omertà factors into it one little bit - I doubt any one of Trump's clown car of circus rejects would know loyalty or discretion if it hit them over the head. It's Fredos all the way down.

If more rich, white, professional white-collar criminals got to see the inside of Real Jail and taste some of the consequences meted out to those not so privileged by race and/or class, we'd have criminal justice reform so fast our heads would spin. Rather like #metoo kicking the Consequences up the ladder for those who never had to face Consequences before.

Manafort is probably not the guy who is going to spearhead this. But it's satisfying to see someone get perp-walked. Now I'm waiting for the other cuffs to drop.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 1:38 PM on June 16 [13 favorites]


Not knowing what else to do, I've continued to canvass, because it is my jam.

Believe me, you are doing the most important job of any campaign for anything. I am including "being the candidate" in the jobs list. Hold your head high, you are the best volunteer.
posted by schroedinger at 1:38 PM on June 16 [42 favorites]


If more rich, white, professional white-collar criminals got to see the inside of Real Jail and taste some of the consequences meted out to those not so privileged by race and/or class, we'd have criminal justice reform so fast our heads would spin.

See also: if the Obama DOJ had actually prosecuted mortgage fraud. The Manafort case is the clearest example of the two-tiered justice system I can remember since 0 bankers went to jail for intentionally crashing the world's economy. Actually applying the law equally would transform the system from both sides, with people who've never feared any consequences whatsoever experiencing actual deterrent effects for the first time in their lives, and people who've been disproportionately and systematically over-targeted finally getting relief.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:49 PM on June 16 [66 favorites]


"I asked Putin three times, he said he didn't do it, he doesn't even know what balonium is".

Balonium is the poison that Putin has made the US ingest via the White House.



The Episcopalians definitely lean Dem. Now, when the leadership of the Mormons, or Nazarenes, or Southern Baptists issue such a statement, we’ll know we’ve hit a major turning point.

Statements from Mormon Church leadership and newsroom on immigration are actually way more moderate, reasonable, and, well, christian (and even pro-refugee) than you'd expect given how most US Mormons skew politically.

Some of that makes its way into how Mormons at large relate to immigration issues vs Evangelicals. Or into expressed support for Obama's immigration policies.

So, yeah. Mormon leadership seem to be there with the Presiding Bishop of the Episcopal Church.

There are, of course, an awful lot of very very Republican Mormons. The funny thing is that as hierarchical and even arguably authoritarian as Mormon believers often seem to be.... it doesn't always translate to receiving messages about immigrants like the above from leadership, and political tribe sometimes trumps (heh) religious tribe. For an example, you can read an account by a clearly put-upon conservative Utah former lawmaker complaining about lobbying and ecclesiastical pressure by the church in support of things like (*gasp*)... minimal non-discrimination protections (housing, employment) for LGBT folks! And guest worker cards along with other reasonable treatment of undocumented immigrants! It all led that particular longsuffering disciple to disillusionment with the Mormons. Always fun to see conservatives discover their capacity for the religious nuance or outright dissent they're often quick to characterize as corruption in others (and it's novel to see people exit Mormonism not because of the usual concern over substantial challenges to church claims or having relatively liberal social views, but because the church's views are too liberal and not xeno/homo-phobic enough for them).

So it's still a mixed bag when it comes to rank-and-file views. But: there's been some recently conducted research on generational attitudes in Mormonism, and while Boomers identifying as Mormon overwhelmingly skew Republican, among Millennials who so identify in this survey, it was pretty much an even split between Democrats and Republicans (47% & 46% respectively).

Assuming this is not a lifecycle thing (e.g, youth often progressive, age becomes conservative), that's a huge shift. It's going to be 30-50 years before that makes its way in force to LDS leadership, but sometime in the next 20 years, most Boomers are going to have cast their last votes, X-ers are going to be the retirees, and millenials are going to be the middle-aged middle class. One could even conceivably imagine Utah being a light red state instead of a red state, assuming the politics of the last few decades even translates to that time.
posted by weston at 2:01 PM on June 16 [9 favorites]


Trump will nominate Mulvaney protégée Kathy Kraniger as CFPB director.

She has no fiscal policy experience. Mulvaney will be the shadow director until 2023, most of the way through the next President’s term.
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:27 PM on June 16 [5 favorites]


Just wrote my first ever letter to my representative, urging him to act to keep families crossing the border from being split up. Not a great or perfect letter, but — I've been reading these threads for years now, and noticed myself getting more and more despondent, and it’s time for my voice to be heard. Silence is not the way to go.

I did this via resist.bot, and it was actually fun!
posted by young_simba at 3:16 PM on June 16 [42 favorites]




According to Trump, interning children is in fact a negotiating strategy to get what he wants on immigration.

So it really has come to this - "give me what I want or I'll leave these children to live or die in the desert".
posted by Frowner at 3:20 PM on June 16 [19 favorites]


Manafort has been doing committing crimes for years. He hasn't bothered to be particularly discreet about the money laundering or influence peddling and there have been no consequences. He hasn't really thought about what happens if the government wants to squeeze him. Witness protection won't help him against the Russian state. I assume that at the least the Russians monitor international calls and data. He would never be able to visit or even spontaneously call whatever family he leaves behind him when he goes into protection. All the high life, the expensive restaurants in big cities, the tailored suits, they'd be over. I would take that life over a jail cell but I haven't spent the last few decades chasing after money and status. Manafort might think he'll be pardoned or that the Mueller investigation might be slowed and he might be right. If he's not just a hired flunky for the Russians but is a full on agent for them I would imagine that US intelligence would know that and they wouldn't make his life in protection particularly comfortable.

Another question is what if he knows about active and successful collaboration with the Russians to steal the election and he flips. I'd be happy about him flipping but Manafort would be looking at spending the rest of life reviled as a traitor. Trump won't last forever.
posted by rdr at 3:21 PM on June 16 [2 favorites]


So it really has come to this - "give me what I want or I'll leave these children to live or die in the desert".

As a federal crime, kidnapping for ransom gets you 20 years. Should there ever be consequences for the offenders, you'll be asked to have sympathy for them. When you are, remember that whatever they end up getting, it won't be 40,000 years.
posted by Rust Moranis at 3:29 PM on June 16 [35 favorites]


Ted Cruz again defends family separation, as Beto O'Rourke plans vigil at Tornillo tent camp

"There's no doubt that the images that we've seen of children, and children being separated from their parents, are heartbreaking. They were heartbreaking when Obama was president," Cruz told reporters Saturday after speaking at the Texas Republican convention. "I visited the Obama camps that he set up to detain little boys and little girls who crossed the border illegally. Illegal immigration produces human tragedies that are wrong" [...] "When you see reporters, when you see Democrats saying, 'Don't separate kids from their parents,' what they're really saying is don't arrest illegal aliens," Cruz said Monday.

"I visited the Obama camps that he set up to detain little boys and little girls."

Cruz really is a master at being himself, isn't he.
posted by Rust Moranis at 3:45 PM on June 16 [13 favorites]


Will Trump's child detention policy be Obama's Katrina?
posted by wildblueyonder at 3:49 PM on June 16 [2 favorites]


>whatever they end up getting, it won't be 40,000 years.

Shared this with an evangelical anti-Trump friend who responded "Correct, it'll be eternity."
posted by EarBucket at 4:06 PM on June 16 [7 favorites]


I'd much rather that he get twenty years now than eternity later.
posted by Joe in Australia at 4:11 PM on June 16 [36 favorites]


whynotboth dot gif
posted by EarBucket at 4:20 PM on June 16 [11 favorites]




http://www.ispaulmanafortinjail.com/

does what it says on the tin.
posted by Justinian at 4:49 PM on June 16 [22 favorites]


2020 watch: James Comey is in Iowa
posted by T.D. Strange at 4:50 PM on June 16


2020 watch: James Comey is in Iowa

I SWEAR TO CHRIST IF THIS MOTHERFUCKER RUNS FOR PRESIDENT IT WILL BE MY SUPERVILLAIN ORIGIN STORY
posted by schadenfrau at 4:54 PM on June 16 [141 favorites]


I've been relieving the pressure on my brain by trying to educate the good people of Twitter on some basic fucking civics facts. Recent Universe Brain Moments include:

There is such a thing as a legal permanent resident! The only options available to people for living in the US legally extend beyond "citizen" and "illegal."

Non-citizens pay taxes!

When people are arrested, the period between arrest and trial date can be handled in various ways, we do not just automatically lock every single person up for the weeks and months until their trial date. (Note: abolish cash bail. Either assess the accused as a risk or don't.)

Crossing the border illegally is a misdemeanor. A minor one. The max punishment for which is considetably less than the max punishment for what I was arrested for (and then was freed on my own recognizance after about 12 hours in the pokey).

Somehow, I still don't feel any better.
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:01 PM on June 16 [51 favorites]



Comey has been in Iowa before likely for family things. His wife is from there.
posted by Jalliah at 5:05 PM on June 16 [6 favorites]


Cruz really is a master at being himself, isn't he.

A master of using human misery as a wedge issue. Yes.
posted by Definitely Not Sean Spicer at 5:16 PM on June 16 [1 favorite]


Because praising Kim Jong Un at the beginning of this week wasn't enough, the Trump White House has sent out a press release:
President Donald J. Trump spoke today with Prime Minister Viktor Orban of Hungary to congratulate him on the formation of his new government. Both leaders agreed on the need for strong national borders and reflected on the President's successful summit with Chairman Kim Jong Un of North Korea. The two leaders further pledged to keep United States-Hungary relations strong.
Orban has been hard at work turning Hungary into an authoritarian state, and his party's massive election victory in April will only embolden him in his enthno-nationalist, xenophobic, anti-EU, crony-capitalist project. And he's a big, big fan of Putin, so they have that in common, too.
posted by Doktor Zed at 5:31 PM on June 16 [21 favorites]




So the guy on the Hoover Dam bridge yesterday, there was some uncertainty what report he wanted released & why. Now we know, thanks to a cellphone video he shot from inside his armored car & sent to a freelance right wing provocateur. It's the DOJ OIC report & he's mad Trump hasn't locked Hillary up yet.
posted by scalefree at 5:53 PM on June 16 [21 favorites]


The WaPo is reporting that Scott Pruitt's true talent is sucking up to the boss, For Pruitt, gaining Trump’s favor — and keeping it — came through fierce allegiance. Includes details about him:
- always eating in the White House mess, compares his antics of always dropping by the Oval Office to a character in the show Veep.
- offering to serve as lead negotiator in Mexico for new NAFTA deal
- offering to take up the stalled infrastructure bill
- pitching to Trump an illegal scheme to mandate higher fuel economy standards for imported cars
- feeding "inaccurate" data to Trump about Paris Climate Accord and being "excoriated" by Cohn and Tillerson for doing so
- weakening clean water rules as a birthday present to Trump
posted by peeedro at 5:58 PM on June 16 [5 favorites]



How could he ever go into witness protection? Every facial recognition system already in existence would pick him out in a photo. When your phone is realtime tagging the people it sees, he's not going to be able to be anybody but himself.

The woman who smoked that crack with Marion Barry got plastic surgery, as did her boyfriend, before they went into witness protection. But I suppose now there is good iris recognition technology.
posted by jgirl at 6:03 PM on June 16 [3 favorites]


I just want to highlight this bit from the Pruitt article, about him fighting to pull out of the Paris agreement:
As it turned out, he was already in the White House, having just ordered the ice cream special in the Mess, where he often dined hoping for just such an opportunity to talk to the president. Once in the Oval Office, Pruitt reinforced Trump’s desire to leave the accord, arguing against other advisers so long that an aide had to bring a cup so his melting ice cream wouldn’t drip onto the presidential rug.
posted by zachlipton at 6:09 PM on June 16 [14 favorites]


“A Flag for Trump’s America,” Jeff Sharlet, Harper's, July 2018

I was surprised. I thought it'd just be a flag with a middle finger and "FUCK YOUR FEELINGS" below the bird.
posted by Definitely Not Sean Spicer at 6:09 PM on June 16 [3 favorites]


Manafort would be looking at spending the rest of life reviled as a traitor.

Turning on the President would go a long way to rehabilitating him. John Dean came out of Watergate better than the rest of them, and he was no saint.
posted by msalt at 6:09 PM on June 16 [7 favorites]



Crossing the border illegally is a misdemeanor. A minor one.

The priest pointed that out tonight at Sunday vigil mass in the 'hood on the House side of the Capitol. He is a lawyer who was ordained later in life. He retired after being sent to Southern Maryland (a very beautiful and nice place, I hasten to add) when he got under the hierarchy's skin for being too liberal and writing that way.

In his retirement he works with Catholic Charities helping people with immigration law. He spoke of the "stomach-churning" fear mothers tell him about. He reminded us that Sessions needs to read the verses following the ones used to support what is going on, the verses about offering food and water. He spoke at length about the need to stop what is going on. He said about 100 of the children in custody are under 4 or 5 years old. One of the bishops has suggested canonical penalties (i.e. excommunication) be used against Catholics who help carry this out.

Outside on the steps after the service he said "the border service guys" don't like this and don't want to have to do it. But reading LEO tweets makes me a lot less certain of that.
posted by jgirl at 6:18 PM on June 16 [14 favorites]


Resistbot users can opt to have their messages tweeted via the Resistbot Open Letters account; if you do this, only your first name and town are used as identifiers. Have a look, and see what citizens are fired up about!
posted by salix at 6:18 PM on June 16 [8 favorites]


scalefree: I wouldn’t give a provocateur Laura Loomer any traffic. Even if this video isn’t fake, a propagandist shouldn’t get any traffic which could help the next scam spread.
posted by adamsc at 6:24 PM on June 16 [3 favorites]


Reading the New Yorker's story on Trump pursuing a summit with Putin is tremendously scary. I don't know how this POS can look at his presidency and think that seeking a one-on-one meeting with Putin right now is a good thing to do. Aside from the fact that his policy is 'Fuck you, that's why.' That he legitimately loves dictators. That there is something in his sick twisted soul that gets off on having people beg for favor.

I honestly didn't think that we'd see Trump go full Trump. I'm sort of plagiarizing from the Pod Save America guys here, but I assumed that there would be some moderation. That the government, checks and balances, would rein him in and he'd be content playing some nominal role. It's like we let loose some wild animal and excepted it to learn physics or something.

He's going full batshit insane. He loves this fascist shit. I know we know this, but it's like, knowing it, really knowing it, is hard. And the GOP is enabling it.

Westworld and The Handmaids Tale seem to me to be both sorts of cultural expression of unease to despair with the status quo. I think as a society it is really fucking hard to accept how wrong things are going. Especially when we have our jobs, and if you're not an immigrant, you're not LGBT, you're not disabled, you're not in public housing, I'm sure I'm forgetting something, you're not a target (yet).
posted by angrycat at 6:36 PM on June 16 [36 favorites]


ACLU via Huffington Post: Bus Driver Tells Passengers Only U.S. Citizens Can Ride As Border Patrol Agent Looks On

- AND -

Border Patrol chief: Number of migrant family separations could double

“We are trying to build to 100 percent prosecution of everybody that is eligible,” Padilla told the Post. “We are not there yet, but that is our intent.” [...] Padilla said Border Patrol agents find separating families painful, though, he noted, agents have the best interests of children at heart. “We’ve got agents who are rescuing children right at the river, sometimes in the river,” he told The Post. “We’ve got children who show up in extremely bad shape. We’ve got children of a tender age who’ve been assaulted by their smugglers.”


I think this is as bad as it seems.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:01 PM on June 16 [45 favorites]


The sheer volume of disingenuous bullshit coming out around this family separation policy is truly staggering.
posted by runcibleshaw at 7:07 PM on June 16 [33 favorites]


I honestly didn't think that we'd see Trump go full Trump. I'm sort of plagiarizing from the Pod Save America guys here, but I assumed that there would be some moderation.

That's what most people expected, because it's what happens in fiction: Joe Schmo the Everyman becomes king/emperor/president and after doing some wacky things makes an attempt at social reform. He learns that an autocrat can't actually make substantial changes against the will of the establishment, and (in most stories) relinquishes his position in exchange for some smaller but still significant social progress.

It turns out that there is no conservative deep state establishment. The power of bureaucrats and senior officials has been shown to be a paper tiger, a Potemkin village propped up by the conflicting needs of the Executive and Legislature. That conflict has vanished: the people who portrayed themselves as statesmen (or, rarely, women) were actually restrained by the Presidency, not vice versa. Now the gloves are off it's like feeding time in the shark tank and they're pantingly eager not to miss out.
posted by Joe in Australia at 7:16 PM on June 16 [6 favorites]


It turns out that there is no conservative deep state establishment. The power of bureaucrats and senior officials has been shown to be a paper tiger, a Potemkin village propped up by the conflicting needs of the Executive and Legislature. That conflict has vanished: the people who portrayed themselves as statesmen (or, rarely, women) were actually restrained by the Presidency, not vice versa.

I don't think this is quite right. Institutions have held up somewhat robustly, more than most expected. But they're ultimately limited where the rightful check on executive power, Congress, abdicates its constitutional function in favor of abetting executive tyranny. The system can survive 1/3 branches controlled by illiberal autocrats, but not 2/3. It's like the Titantic, the framers planned for a maximum of 6 breached watertight bulkheads. Republicans breached all 16 bulkheads at the same time.
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:30 PM on June 16 [28 favorites]


So it really has come to this - "give me what I want or I'll leave these children to live or die in the desert".

forget everything else this president has done - THIS is what he should be impeached for - the democrats should demand it - if the republicans refuse then we ask the international authorities to swear out a warrant alleging crimes against humanity so anyone who supports this policy can be arrested on foreign soil, including trump

the world needs to make it clear that this is not acceptable, even if they have to embargo us
posted by pyramid termite at 7:37 PM on June 16 [56 favorites]


he said "the border service guys" don't like this and don't want to have to do it.

I'm sure if it were my job to rip a breastfeeding child from its mother, I'd feel like a worthless bag of shit too.

This is the hill. It's not Mueller. It's taking down Racist America™ right here. No midterms, no help from corporate news. No DNC. Non-racist Americans with half an ounce of compassion and common sense do it, the sooner the better. If we can't fix this bullshit whim of a sociopath's policy, we have bigger problems than a doddering fuckstick in a wig.
posted by petebest at 7:38 PM on June 16 [54 favorites]


It's like the Titantic, the framers planned for a maximum of 6 breached watertight bulkheads.

The Framers planned that by this point SOMEONE would have had enough of Trump's bullshit and challenged him to a duel on the Field of Honour.
posted by mikelieman at 7:47 PM on June 16 [22 favorites]


SOMEONE would have had enough of Trump's bullshit and challenged him to a duel on the Field of Honour.

If he had enough honor to show up to a duel, we wouldn't be in half as much of a mess as we are now.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 7:50 PM on June 16 [14 favorites]


The Texas tent city outside of El Paso is already open, one day after the site's announcement.

And here's video from ABC.

The only thing this administration has done quickly, quietly and efficiently is the building of concentration camps for children.
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:03 PM on June 16 [101 favorites]


Trump Again Falsely Blames Democrats for His Separation Tactic (NYT (?!))

WASHINGTON — President Trump on Saturday repeated his false assertion that Democrats were responsible for his administration’s policy of separating migrant families apprehended at the border, sticking to a weekslong refusal to publicly accept responsibility for a widely condemned practice that has become a symbol of his crackdown on illegal immigration.

[...] In fact, there is no law that requires families to be separated at the border. There is a law against “improper entry” at the border, as well as a consent decree known as the Flores settlement that limits to 20 days the amount of time that migrant children may be held in immigration detention, which a federal judge ruled in 2016 also applies to families. A 2008 anti-trafficking statute — signed into law by a Republican president, George W. Bush — also requires that certain unaccompanied alien minors be transferred out of immigration detention in 72 hours. None of those laws or precedents mean that children must be taken away from their parents.


The fact that this is so cut-and-dried that even the failed NYT feels comfortable calling it out means this isn't a question about anything. No talking heads need apply. It's not an opinion buffet. Make the calls, get it done.
posted by petebest at 8:09 PM on June 16 [37 favorites]


Don Lemon on CNN is all out of evens, too (YouTube): “That is just a lie.”
posted by darkstar at 8:13 PM on June 16 [19 favorites]


@topherspiro:
Wow. This is the private letter @SenatorCollins is sending to her constituents rationalizing Trump's policy of separating children from their families. #mepolitics

@marmel:
There are no GOP moderates.
They all must go in 2018.
From Senator, To Representative to dog catcher.
They must be driven out of our democracy in November.
Which means register, Get IDs if you need them, and plan to vote in packs.
Midterms are in 142 days

posted by Artw at 8:19 PM on June 16 [38 favorites]


I'm pretty sure all of the GOP moderates have (D) next to their names.
posted by jferg at 8:26 PM on June 16 [19 favorites]


Talking of which...

@jordainc:
40 senators backing bill to prevent separation of families at border. congress.gov/bill/115th-con…

No GOP senators yet. D's who haven't signed on (at least as of yesterday):
1) Brown
2) Cardin
3) Donnelly
4) Heitkamp
5) Jones
6) Manchin
7) McCaskill
8) Stabenow
9) Tester


So at least a few Dems who think “be like nazis” is a vote winner.
posted by Artw at 8:33 PM on June 16 [9 favorites]


Stabenow signed on today, though that's not reflected on the official list yet. As have Brown ("per spouse" anyway) and Cardin
posted by zachlipton at 8:37 PM on June 16 [17 favorites]


9) Tester

So at least a few Dems who think “be like nazis” is a vote winner.


A local resistance organization (Missoula Rises) is meeting with Tester in a few days to discuss this particular issue, so hopefully that'll resolve shortly.
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:39 PM on June 16 [2 favorites]


Stabenow signed on today.

Whew, finally. She and Sen. Peters took their sweet time about it.
posted by FelliniBlank at 8:40 PM on June 16 [7 favorites]


Geez, McCaskill. I know she's in a tough campaign but that's rough.
posted by gerryblog at 8:42 PM on June 16 [3 favorites]


They all must go in 2018.
From Senator, To Representative to dog catcher.
They must be driven out of our democracy in November.


They're not going to be, though. Even notwithstanding the Senators not up for election, there is no scenario in which Democrats win every seat in the House, that's just nonsense. And of course, the same things at the state level.

I get that it's satisfying to go around Carthago delenda est-ing all the time. I would like to see some more of "even in the best case scenario, the GOP is still going to have some people in power, we need to figure out how to deal with that."
posted by Chrysostom at 8:45 PM on June 16 [25 favorites]


I’m one of Senator Cardin’s constituents. He’s going to hear from me that I consider his delay in joining the bill unacceptable. The Democratic primary is coming up soon, and he’s not going to get my vote with this kind of nonsense.
posted by wintermind at 8:49 PM on June 16 [5 favorites]




Sometimes it’s important to have goals, Chrysostom.
posted by Artw at 9:03 PM on June 16 [17 favorites]


> I get that it's satisfying to go around Carthago delenda est-ing all the time. I would like to see some more of "even in the best case scenario, the GOP is still going to have some people in power, we need to figure out how to deal with that."

This sentiment is a perfect example of how a Democrat is someone who won't take their own side in an argument. *Of course* Democrats can't win all 535 congressional seats, the thousands of state races, etc. But what's the point in saying that?

Besides, "Carthago delanda est" is a lot easier to read on a bumper sticker.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:22 PM on June 16 [9 favorites]


What's the point in saying "Our goal is something that is literally impossible"?
posted by Chrysostom at 9:29 PM on June 16 [3 favorites]


its marketing.
posted by yesster at 9:30 PM on June 16 [4 favorites]


> What's the point in saying "Our goal is something that is literally impossible"?

Ask Senator Doug Jones.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:32 PM on June 16 [17 favorites]


What's the point in saying "Our goal is something that is literally impossible"?

I think it’s a “Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you’ll land among the stars” kind of thing. I’m ok with dreaming big.
posted by greermahoney at 9:38 PM on June 16 [11 favorites]


...and, just to pre-empt the obvious (and factually correct) response... of course the likelihood of winning a single "unwinnable" seat is higher than the likelihood of winning in dozens or hundreds of "unwinnable" seats. But we never really know which are the winnable "unwinnable" seats, and that uncertainty is reason enough to me to never send a signal to voters or volunteers that their races are unwinnable.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:42 PM on June 16 [3 favorites]


It's a long term goal. They are a derelict party with no serious policy ideas, and they deserve to be ground into dust. Of course we won't completely erase them in one round of elections, but I think a strategy of openly and aggressively pursuing that goal is a good one.
posted by contraption at 9:45 PM on June 16 [9 favorites]


Remember the "50 State Strategy"? It seemed like the moment the Democrats gave that up, the Republicans took it on, with extra cheating.
posted by oneswellfoop at 9:51 PM on June 16 [21 favorites]


I like to imagine my tearful calls to Senators Peters and Stabenow got them off their butts!

I was very upset when I called this week.
Children being taken from their parents in the name of ‘safety’ and ‘security’ really wrecked me.
posted by Gadgetenvy at 9:59 PM on June 16 [19 favorites]


tonycpsu: "Ask Senator Doug Jones"

His election wasn't impossible! If you look back at my contributions to these threads at the time, I at no point called Jones's election impossible. Hell, I even strongly pushed back against people who said that it was. In general, I always go out of my way to never say that things WILL or WILL NOT happen, because nobody knows.

But that's different from something that *cannot* happen. Taking control of the Congress is aspirational, universal healthcare is aspirational, those are great, inspiring goals. "We control 100% of everything" is not aspirational.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:12 PM on June 16 [21 favorites]


But that's different from something that *cannot* happen. Taking control of the Congress is aspirational, universal healthcare is aspirational, those are great, inspiring goals. "We control 100% of everything" is not aspirational.
posted by Chrysostom at 1:12 AM on June 17 [+] [!]


You're right. In order to do that, democrats would have to undertake a decades long campaign to disenfranchise republican voters.
posted by runcibleshaw at 10:16 PM on June 16 [8 favorites]


> I at no point called Jones's election impossible.

I never said you did. A lot of people did, though.
posted by tonycpsu at 10:26 PM on June 16


What's the point in saying "Our goal is something that is literally impossible"?

It's how you make the impossible possible.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 12:27 AM on June 17 [5 favorites]


Texas Monthly published a heartbreaking, detailed interview with the executive director of the Houston office of the Tahirih Justice Center yesterday about what exactly is happening on the ground in the child separation/detention policy.
posted by charmedimsure at 12:30 AM on June 17 [21 favorites]




[Let's drop the back and forth about the impossible goal at this point (also jokey sub-derail removed). Please remember that we're trying to have these threads as a somewhat clear channel for people to find out news and related discussion about Trump / WH / elections and try to keep things pointed in that direction.]
posted by taz (staff) at 1:02 AM on June 17 [5 favorites]


Since news broke of US border officials taking children from their families I've been hearing, in my mind's ear, Archie Roach's Took the Children Away. I listened to it for real today and thought, with lyrics adapted to America's current situation, it could be a good song to play at protests and the like, and not difficult for a crowd to sing.
posted by valetta at 1:45 AM on June 17 [4 favorites]


I'll add this as a favorite gut-punch of a protest song for this era:
Radney Foster - "All That I Require"

(I've been reading MeFi since it was new but I've never signed up. The current funding announcement finally pushed me to do so and to donate. I struggle to imagine not having this community in these dark days. Thank you all. And, to the rest of you lurkers: if you can, please do so too. )
posted by bcd at 3:07 AM on June 17 [73 favorites]


Caroline O. (Shareblue)
Trump keeps trying to blame Democrats, but here's John Kelly in March 2017 talking about implementing forced separation for immigrant families:

"I am considering, in order to deter more movement along this terribly dangerous network, I am considering exactly that."

VIDEO
posted by chris24 at 3:20 AM on June 17 [39 favorites]


From the interview posted above by >charmedimsure

Article 31 of the Refugee Convention clearly says that it is improper for any state to use criminal laws that could deter asylum seekers as long as that asylum seeker is asking for asylum within a reasonable amount of time. But our administration is kind of ignoring this longstanding international and national jurisprudence of basic beliefs to make this distinction that, if you come to a bridge, we’re not going to prosecute you, but if you come over the river and then find immigration or are caught by immigration, we’re prosecuting you.

TM: So if you cross any other way besides the bridge, we’re prosecuting you. But . . . you can’t cross the bridge.


It’s all so fucked up. That article is worth a read. Sounds a lot like Scientology. You have to come into the building to request a refund. But if you want a refund, you’re suppressive and therefore can’t come into the building. Convenient.
posted by robotdevil at 5:30 AM on June 17 [33 favorites]


Trump associate Roger Stone reveals new contact with Russian national during 2016 campaign (WaPo):
One day in late May 2016, Roger Stone — the political dark sorcerer and longtime confidant of Donald Trump — slipped into his Jaguar and headed out to meet a man with a Make America Great Again hat and a viscous Russian accent.

The man, who called himself Henry Greenberg, offered damaging information about Hillary Clinton, Trump’s presumptive Democratic opponent in the upcoming presidential election, according to Stone who spoke about the previously unreported incident in interviews with The Washington Post. Greenberg, who did not reveal the information he claimed to possess, wanted Trump to pay $2 million for the political dirt, Stone said.

“You don’t understand Donald Trump,” Stone recalled saying before rejecting the offer at a restaurant in the Russian-expat magnet of Sunny Isles, Fla. “He doesn’t pay for anything.”
posted by peeedro at 6:07 AM on June 17 [29 favorites]


Wherein Kellyanne's husband and conservative power lawyer recommends criminal investigation of the Trumps.

Kyle Griffin (MSNBC)
Election law experts from across the political spectrum largely agreed that the New York A.G. made a compelling case this week that Trump’s campaign and his charitable foundation violated federal campaign finance laws during the 2016 election.
NYT: Will the Justice Department Investigate the Trump Foundation?


George Conway
Retweeted Kyle Griffin
These are obviously very serious allegations, and they should be referred to the United States Attorney’s Office for the Southern District of New York.
posted by chris24 at 6:11 AM on June 17 [16 favorites]


Trump associate Roger Stone reveals new contact with Russian national during 2016 campaign (WaPo):

Adam Davidson (New Yorker)
This sounds like a joke, but is clearly true: the Trump team's defense is that we tried, really hard, again and again, to collude with Russia, but nothing ever worked out.
posted by chris24 at 6:19 AM on June 17 [46 favorites]


It's a searing experience, but that Texas Monthly article linked by charmedimsure has to be read
posted by Myeral at 6:20 AM on June 17 [5 favorites]


I just used ResistBot the other day for the very first time, thanks to threads like this. (And seeing the open letters bot on Twitter was helpful too. I was worried that my letters were too short but seeing the real-life letters there was super helpful.)
posted by sperose at 6:29 AM on June 17 [13 favorites]


Adam Davidson (New Yorker): This sounds like a joke, but is clearly true: the Trump team's defense is that we tried, really hard, again and again, to collude with Russia, but nothing ever worked out.

And in that vein...

Aaron Rupar (Think Progress)
GIULIANI, SHORTER: Roger Stone may have tried to collude with Russia, but I believe his effort was unsuccessful, so meh

VIDEO OF RUDY WITH JAKE TAPPER THIS MORNING
posted by chris24 at 6:32 AM on June 17 [4 favorites]


List is getting smaller.

@jordainc
Would make the list of D's who haven't signed on:
1) Donnelly
2) Heitkamp
3) Jones
4) Manchin
5) McCaskill
6) Tester

posted by Artw at 6:34 AM on June 17 [3 favorites]


General Michael Hayden is all out of fscks. And he's been burning the trolls. [links to his Twitter]
posted by Joe in Australia at 6:38 AM on June 17 [24 favorites]


Again from the Texas Monthly article,
In other cases, we see no communication that the parent knows that their child is to be taken away. Instead, the officers say, “I’m going to take your child to get bathed.” That’s one we see again and again. “Your child needs to come with me for a bath.” The child goes off, and in a half an hour, twenty minutes, the parent inquires, “Where is my five-year-old?” “Where’s my seven-year-old?” “This is a long bath.” And they say, “You won’t be seeing your child again.”
I am so so so fucking angry and if I weren't taking care of my own infant child right now I'd be likely trying to find my way to Texas (to bear witness, if nothing else). If I were one of these parents I'd probably be on trial for attempted murder of the guard who did this to my child.
posted by Gaz Errant at 6:40 AM on June 17 [51 favorites]


Trump associate Roger Stone reveals new contact with Russian national during 2016 campaign (WaPo)

This is a classic hang out from Roger the Rat-fucker. He and Caputo are covering their asses because they didn't mention this "unimportant" meeting during their House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence testimony, but Caputo, for his sake, had better have brought it up to the Mueller investigation for his interview.

Now Stone is volunteering his version of the meeting to the Post, telling them it's "an FBI sting operation". For good measure, this incredibly shady Henry Greenberg character introduced a supposed ex-employee of the Clinton Foundation into the narrative. The Post does a credible job of fact-checking where it can, but this story is ultimately being orchestrated by Stone, for his own benefit. Caveat lector.
posted by Doktor Zed at 7:01 AM on June 17 [16 favorites]


The WaPo has more details on the jail that will be Manafort’s home while awaiting trial. Not a Club Fed; formerly home to Michael Vick, Chris Brown, Taliban-linked Irek Hamidullin, and Colombian druglord Hernan Giraldo Serna. Also includes details of a negligent inmate death.
posted by peeedro at 7:17 AM on June 17 [10 favorites]


I hope this shines a light on the desperate need for prison reform. That said…

Inmates are permitted one personal visit per week. Manafort, a former campaign chairman for President Trump, was assigned Fridays from 2:15 to 3:15 p.m. as his visitation window.

That little insert just gives you chills, doesn't it.
posted by InTheYear2017 at 7:25 AM on June 17 [12 favorites]


Kellyanne Conway on Meet the Press with the standard lies and gaslighting on child concentration camps but with that special Kellyanne flair. Starts with the classic "As a mother and a catholic and a person with a conscience" and ends with "there are people comparing this to Nazis: what an outrageous disrespect to the six million people who died in that time."

As someone whose extended family mostly died in the Holocaust, every time I see this "how dare you disrespect them" faux-indignation it's all I can do not to lunge through the screen like Enraged Jewish Videodrome and deliver a Gianforte Suplex.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:53 AM on June 17 [86 favorites]


Marcy Wheeler: Rat-Fucker Extraordinaire Roger Stone Probably Had Far More Damning Texts Seized by FBI on March 8
By revealing that Mueller caught Caputo and Stone dealing in dirt with Russians, they reveal a certain detail to other co-conspirators: probably, that Mueller has obtained the contents of Roger Stone’s phone. As a reminder, on March 9, the FBI obtained the cloud-stored contents of 5 AT&T phones (and probably at least as many Verizon ones), at least one but not all of which were Manafort’s. There’s a lot of reason to believe that at least one of the phones obtained was Stone’s.
...
We can be virtually certain, too, that Stone is offering just a limited version of the story, as he has done over and over again. Of note: Stone doesn’t claim he said to Oknyansky that he wasn’t interested in the information; rather, he only claims that Trump wouldn’t pay $2 million for it. By the end of the summer someone else — Peter Smith — was offering money for dirt on Hillary. And the Clinton Foundation was a key focus of Stone’s; he raised it 8 times on Twitter between that meeting at the election.

Now, as I said, the reason we’re learning about this particular lie from Caputo and Stone is because it feeds a certain narrative, that the FBI was seeking to set up the Trump campaign. That makes zero sense, given that even accepting the outreach from a Russian would have triggered attention from the FBI, and it’s clear FBI just got this information recently (probably, as I’ve noted, on March 9). Remember, too, the FBI didn’t formally learn that the Russians were targeting the Democrats, to the extent they did (and the Russians targeted Rubio and Graham as well) until June. So there’s no reason the FBI would have used a Russian to deal dirt in May. In other words, Caputo and Stone’s story makes zero sense.
She goes on to speculate that Russia was deliberately using former FBI informants to approach the Trump campaign, because their communications would not be monitored by the NSA. [so expect to see Josh Marshall coming up with that insight in 3-4 days].
posted by T.D. Strange at 7:56 AM on June 17 [23 favorites]


7 D congressman are trying to enter a shelter in NJ.

Rep. Hakeem Jeffries
Here w/ six other members of Congress including ⁦@RepJerryNadler⁩ ⁦⁦@RepEspaillat⁩ at ICE detention facility in Elizabeth, NJ making surprise Father’s Day visit. They are refusing to let us in. We will #Resist #KeepingFamiliesTogether
PIC
posted by chris24 at 7:57 AM on June 17 [55 favorites]


Kellyanne Conway on Meet the Press with the standard lies and gaslighting on child concentration camps but with that special Kellyanne flair. Starts with the classic "As a mother and a catholic and a person with a conscience" and ends with "there are people comparing this to Nazis: what an outrageous disrespect to the six million people who died in that time."

(in my dreams)

CHUCK TODD: To respond to that, we'd like to introduce NBC's Special Commentator on Jewish Affairs, @Sarah Silverman.
posted by snuffleupagus at 8:03 AM on June 17 [19 favorites]


Nadler is my rep! Go Jerry!

Rep. Nadler
We have gotten the door open at the Elizabeth, NJ ICE detention center and refusing to let it close until we are given access to the detainees. #FamiliesBelongTogether
posted by chris24 at 8:06 AM on June 17 [74 favorites]


God I love Jerry Nadler. Here he is putting his body on the gears of the machine.
posted by prefpara at 8:07 AM on June 17 [18 favorites]


Jinx, chris24! (Hi neighbor)
posted by prefpara at 8:07 AM on June 17 [2 favorites]


To see Roger Stone put in prison for rat fucking with Assange? That's the dream.
posted by Definitely Not Sean Spicer at 8:14 AM on June 17 [7 favorites]


The president* is especially incoherent this morning:
WITCH HUNT! There was no Russian Collusion. Oh, I see, there was no Russian Collusion, so now they look for obstruction on the no Russian Collusion. The phony Russian Collusion was a made up Hoax. Too bad they didn’t look at Crooked Hillary like this. Double Standard!
posted by octothorpe at 8:33 AM on June 17 [11 favorites]


If you don’t want people to think about Russian collusion definitely say it in caps four times in a row
posted by The Whelk at 8:42 AM on June 17 [87 favorites]


Members of Oregon's Congressional delegation were able to tour a detention center for asylum seekers. They found that a majority of the people detained there are from India. Detainees don't have money to make phone calls, and don't know where their wives and children are. "This is a shameful hour in U.S. history," said U.S. Rep. Earl Blumenauer. "I don't care what your stance on immigration is, no one should favor ripping children out of their parents' arms ...." Red-faced with tears streaming down his cheeks, Blumenauer couldn't continue.
posted by terooot at 8:47 AM on June 17 [69 favorites]


If you don’t want people to think about Russian collusion definitely say it in caps four times in a row

Especially when Junior tweeted the confession to meeting illegally with Russian criminals in Trump Tower.

IIRC, Rudy was all, "Yeah, I thought she was just a Russian, and not a lawyer for the Russian Government."

As if that matters to the prohibition in 52 USC 30121.

How can the President's Lawyer NOT KNOW THIS???
posted by mikelieman at 8:53 AM on June 17 [6 favorites]


The president* is especially incoherent this morning

This previous tweet was clearly written by his staff after the Stone story was released: "Washington Post employees want to go on strike because Bezos isn’t paying them enough. I think a really long strike would be a great idea. Employees would get more money and we would get rid of Fake News for an extended period of time! Is @WaPo a registered lobbyist?"

That obviously wasn't enough to calm him down, though, so an hour later Trump (and it's clearly Trump this time) went on the tweet-rampage about all-caps exclamation-point "WITCH HUNT!"
posted by Doktor Zed at 8:55 AM on June 17 [5 favorites]


And of course @WaPo is not an active Twitter handle having been previously banned, much less the Post's.

And WaPo's reporters are not talking about striking.
posted by chris24 at 8:57 AM on June 17 [8 favorites]


How can the President's Lawyer NOT KNOW THIS???

My theory is that he knows it, but understands corporate news to be a giant farce wherein everyone lies to the hilt to see who wins. He's right, of course.

Hey everyone, please share the Capitol Switchboard number with your pals: (202) 224-3121

A helpful robot menu will bring you to the office you seek. Let's give the staffers a bracing Monday of inventive voicemails to kick off the news cycle.
posted by petebest at 9:01 AM on June 17 [20 favorites]


I hope Manafort gets to try the prison loaf
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:09 AM on June 17 [2 favorites]


I'm sure if it were my job to rip a breastfeeding child from its mother, I'd feel like a worthless bag of shit too.

"This atrocity I am being paid to commit sure does give me the sads" is the new "I was only following orders", and inspires exactly as much sympathy.
posted by multics at 9:11 AM on June 17 [65 favorites]


I think the internment camps should be connected to visiting Kim.

Trump meets Kim and in a week we have children in concentration camps.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 9:14 AM on June 17 [13 favorites]


Please. Concentration camps are very American. We've got a long history of cleansing the country of ethnic peoples and corralling them into nice, enclosed spaces.

It's more American than an apple pie.
posted by anem0ne at 9:33 AM on June 17 [56 favorites]


From the Texas Monthly article above:

AC: So the idea of zero tolerance under the stated policy is that we don’t care why you’re afraid. We don’t care if it’s religion, political, gangs, anything. For all asylum seekers, you are going to be put in jail, in a detention center, and you’re going to have your children taken away from you. That’s the policy.

We've established it's not "law", much less "Democrat's law", so let's never hear that bullshit again without a flamethrowing response (DC press, ok?).

This is the TrumpBorg's whim (it's not able tho be enacted fully because - surprise - no one was expecting it), and it can be stopped today. Right now. With a phone call.
posted by petebest at 9:41 AM on June 17 [15 favorites]


Like. You don't need to go half a world away to see the monstrous face of America trying to annihialate anyone non-white. It's a fundamental part of being American, from the moment we as a people began a centuries-long war of genocide against Native Americans, to slavery where families and cultures were wiped out on these shores, to redlining Black Americans, Chinese, Latinx, and others to ghettos, to the brutal occupation, annexation, and obliteration of the native Hawaiian culture, to the internment of Americans of Japanese heritage...

Blame it on the meeting with that short, diabetic, begouted torturer if you want.
posted by anem0ne at 9:43 AM on June 17 [17 favorites]


I can't even with the "America's always been super evil" shit this morning. Can we not have this argument again now?
posted by Gaz Errant at 9:47 AM on June 17 [19 favorites]


More to the point, it was noted in this thread literally six hours ago that John Kelly was talking about the family separation policy in March 2017, over a year ago.

The immigration detention facilities were already very abusive under the Obama administration, they always seemed like internment camps to me, and sheriff Arpaio famously had a death camp in the desert less than 15 years ago.
posted by Rainbo Vagrant at 9:48 AM on June 17 [13 favorites]


(Texas Monthly article, last one but it's a doozy)

AC: In the shelters, they can’t even find the parents because the kids are just crying inconsolably. They often don’t know the full legal name of their parents or their date of birth. They’re not in a position to share a trauma story like what caused the migration. These kids and parents had no idea. None of the parents I talked to were expecting to be separated as they faced the process of asking for asylum.

TM: I would think that there would be something in place where, when the child is taken, they’d be given a wristband or something with their information on it?

AC: I think the Department of Homeland Security gives the kids an alien number. They also give the parents an alien number and probably have that information. The issue is that the Department of Homeland Security is not the one caring for the children. Jurisdiction of that child has moved over to Health and Human Services, and the Health and Human Services staff has to figure out, where is this parent? And that’s not easy.


Sometimes the parents are deported. Kids are in New York and Miami, and we’ve got parents being sent to Tacoma, Washington, and California. Talk about a mess. And nobody has a right to an attorney here. These kids don’t get a paid advocate or an ad litem or a friend of the court. They don’t get a paid attorney to represent them. Some find that, because there are programs. But it’s not a right. It’s not universal.


Yeah, give the internment camp children a number. I mean - they're not even trying to disguise it.
posted by petebest at 9:54 AM on June 17 [58 favorites]


and sheriff Arpaio famously had a death camp in the desert less than 15 years ago.

Tent City closed Oct 10th, 2017. WAY less than than 15 years ago.
posted by Weeping_angel at 9:56 AM on June 17 [16 favorites]


And it only closed because we finally got rid of the bastard.
posted by Weeping_angel at 9:57 AM on June 17 [11 favorites]


I think the Department of Homeland Security gives the kids an alien number.

Children's identities are literally being replaced with "Alien Number X."
posted by Rust Moranis at 10:01 AM on June 17 [15 favorites]


At the rally in DC last week, they said parents were given slips of papers when they were separated from their kids to 'give them a bath.' When the parents realized their kids weren't going to be returned, they found the names on the papers not only weren't the right names, but often didn't even match the number of children that were taken from them.

I haven't slept right since.
posted by Space Kitty at 10:08 AM on June 17 [50 favorites]


More Evidence of the Critical Failure of the IG Report
Let’s review a range of evidence for not only anti-Clinton bias but actions which had specific and protracted effects on the investigation and news coverage of Clinton.

1. We have strong evidence that there was a clique of senior agents in the New York field office with what senior FBI and DOJ officials viewed as a “visceral hatred of Secretary Clinton.” We don’t have to take Comey and Lynch’s word for it. This was actually a talking point among the GOP right in the fall of 2016. It was simply proffered as evidence for Clinton’s perfidy.

2. We have strong reporting that law enforcement officials confirmed that agents in the New York field office leaked information about the laptop to one of candidate Trump’s lead campaign surrogates, Rudy Giuliani. He in turn used that information to push a restarting of the Clinton investigation. Giuliani claimed as much publicly and only changed his story when an investigation got underway.

3. We know from Rep. Devin Nunes’ own account that, within two or three days of finding the emails on the laptop, what Nunes termed “good FBI agents” were leaking the information to Capitol Hill Republicans. According to Nunes, it wasn’t just him but the “House Intelligence Committee.” Presumably he means Republicans on the Committee but maybe to Democrats too.

4. We know from the IG Report itself that all the top FBI officials aside from Comey believed that the fear that the laptop information would be leaked if Comey did not announce it was a key driver in the decision to send the letter. The remaining evidence suggests those leaks would have been driven by animus against Secretary Clinton.

All of this adds up to strong evidence that the investigation was directly affected by people with clear anti-Clinton bias and that the critical decision to send the October 28th letter was driven at least in large part by their actions – actions which were clearly improper and may even have been illegal.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:12 AM on June 17 [38 favorites]


TW: disturbing themes.

If anyone is in any doubt that the horrific treatment of vulnerable kids is purely a US phenomenon, this article about teenage African refugees in the UK should help to clear that up, I'm sorry to say.
posted by Myeral at 10:20 AM on June 17 [5 favorites]


emptywheel, In Attempt to Learn How Much Mueller Knows about Roger Stone’s “Collusion,” Devin Nunes Blames FBI for Stone and Michael Caputo’s Perjury to HPSCI. In short, the Stone thing is a setup by which Nunes can threaten to impeach Rosenstein, as he did this morning, by blaming the FBI rather than Stone and Caputo for perjury.
posted by zachlipton at 10:24 AM on June 17 [9 favorites]


Do we still have an active Fucking Fuck thread? Because I'm literally losing sleep and physically ill over this. I have a five-year old son. I can't even watch movies where similarly aged kids are upset or hurt.

And now every time I go on Twitter it's just....who are these proud monsters? Why are they like this? How did they get to be so broken? I literally can't understand how anyone could be so hateful and mean about children.
posted by soren_lorensen at 10:25 AM on June 17 [58 favorites]


TM: So if you cross any other way besides the bridge, we’re prosecuting you. But . . . you can’t cross the bridge.

It’s all so fucked up. That article is worth a read. Sounds a lot like Scientology. You have to come into the building to request a refund. But if you want a refund, you’re suppressive and therefore can’t come into the building. Convenient.


It's worse than that. According to the interview and other reports I've seen, those McAllen CBP agents are falsely telling people "we're full" or "the bridge is closed" instead of letting them cross, which is essentially setting them up to attempt entry via the river. And according to the existing treaties and tradition, even entering at a non-approved point is OK for asylum seekers as long as you present yourself immediately to Border Patrol to request asylum. That mostly hasn't even been treated as a civil infraction, let alone a criminal offense.

Trump is just choosing to ignore that longstanding norm, as he does so many others. And of course, the goal is to criminalize pretty much any form of entry into the US by brown people and use any excuse to abduct their kids and inflict maximum suffering.
posted by FelliniBlank at 10:39 AM on June 17 [26 favorites]


How about a note of levity? Here's Jia Tolentino in the New Yorker talking about the movie Coco (movie spoilers in the article, of course):
“Hey ppl over here getting drunk and watching Coco just fyi,” I texted Andrew, who was still at the office. In return, I received a series of panicked instructions to not start without him. “You have already seen it….” I texted. “I DON’T CARE!!!!!!!” he texted back. “DON’T START WITHOUT ME!!!!”
Did I say note of levity? Sorry...
“Coco” is a movie about borders more than anything—the beauty in their porousness, the absolute pain produced when a border locks you away from your family. [...] The thesis of the movie is that families belong together. I watched it again this week, reading the news that Donald Trump is considering building an unregulated holding camp for migrant children, that ICE showed up on the lawn of a legal permanent resident and initiated deportation procedures, that a four-month-old baby was torn away from her breastfeeding mother. If justice is what love looks like in public, then love has started to seem like the stuff of children’s movies, or maybe the stuff of this children’s movie—something that doesn’t make sense in the adult world, but should.
It is Fathers Day in the US and I'm sitting in an airport in fucking tears reading about kids being ripped away from their parents - and they blame the "Democrat law" for this? I'm also beginning to understand that when they take kids away "for a bath" they really do understand the historical parallels all too well, and that they're deliberately trying to rhyme. That's darker than I thought possible.

Abolish ICE and prosecute these wannabee SS thugs.
posted by RedOrGreen at 10:42 AM on June 17 [40 favorites]


Yeah, these are really bad times. There are links I don’t click. I trust you all when you say it is horrendous. Its so depressing not to be able to help those kids and their parents.
About the NY FBI people: how can you be a senior person in the FBI in New York and not know Trump is a crook? And be willing to hand over the nation to that crook, just to avoid having a female president.
It is so disgusting.
posted by mumimor at 10:44 AM on June 17 [29 favorites]


At the rally in DC last week, they said parents were given slips of papers when they were separated from their kids to 'give them a bath.' When the parents realized their kids weren't going to be returned, they found the names on the papers not only weren't the right names, but often didn't even match the number of children that were taken from them.

During his MSNBC interview the other day (about 5:30-7:30), Beto O'Rourke explained that DHS/CBP/ICE have one numbering system for entering/detained migrants and HHS has its own different numbering system for "unaccompanied minors," and no one could assure him that there is any matching/tracking of these two numbers that will ensure parents' children can be found in the system when the parents are released and come looking.

The whole interview is very detailed and informative (and devastating) about conditions on the ground in McAllen.
posted by FelliniBlank at 10:47 AM on June 17 [33 favorites]


Stomaching the news lately has been really hard lately. I've even been avoiding the Thread. I'm so sorry for everyone. Love and courage, neighbours. May this ongoing heartbreaking outrage someday soon finally fucking end.
posted by mrjohnmuller at 11:02 AM on June 17 [7 favorites]


Trump is just choosing to ignore that longstanding norm
Trump is the puppet. This is the doings of Stephen Miller and Jeff Sessions. Stephen and Jeff are close, Stephen trained under Sessions. They are working this horror together, and Stephen is coaching Trump. Stephen Miller is a man without a soul, a pure psychopath. He is getting off on this. Jeff Sessions is thrilled to destroy black and brown people in any way he can. Attacking Trump may feel good, but it is Stephen Miller that is the root of this program, along with Jeff Sessions. Kelly loves it, too. But Trump is the puppet, it won't change or stop as long as Trump keeps getting attacked. We need to go after Sessions and Miller and Kelly.
posted by W Grant at 11:05 AM on June 17 [20 favorites]


The reasons for taking the children seem awfully thin to me. A duty to simply carry out law in its most abstract sense? A disincentive to come to the country? Where's the argument that they're inferior and need taken care of, or are foreign spies, or are evil masterminds of some kind? From a historical perspective, I would have expected a stronger argument than someone put a bad law on the books, so what can you do? And then in terms of history, please don't tell me we're going to justify this by pretending these camps are great places. That arguments already been used to justify plantations and ghettos.

But worst of all from a historical perspective, I feel pretty sure that if I were to meet someone from say Nazi Germany, and ask them when was the time when it all could have been stopped they would point to a time that looks a lot like right now. I don't know that this ball is going to keep rolling and become an avalanche, but I'm pretty certain if it does it will be too late.
posted by xammerboy at 11:05 AM on June 17 [11 favorites]


Two days ago, Trump on Fox News:
Doocy: How are you going to celebrate Father’s Day?

Trump: “Work. I’m going to work.”
Today: "The motorcade arrived at the Trump National Golf Club in Sterling, VA, at 11:06....This is the second straight day that POTUS has visited his DC-area golf club."

As far as I'm concerned, he should spend all his time golfing, but what a stupid pointless lie.
posted by zachlipton at 11:07 AM on June 17 [49 favorites]


Trump is the puppet. This is the doings of Stephen Miller and Jeff Sessions. Stephen and Jeff are close, Stephen trained under Sessions. They are working this horror together, and Stephen is coaching Trump. Stephen Miller is a man without a soul, a pure psychopath. He is getting off on this. Jeff Sessions is thrilled to destroy black and brown people in any way he can. Attacking Trump may feel good, but it is Stephen Miller that is the root of this program, along with Jeff Sessions. Kelly loves it, too. But Trump is the puppet, it won't change or stop as long as Trump keeps getting attacked. We need to go after Sessions and Miller and Kelly.

Sorry, by "Trump," I mean the Trump administration. They're all responsible, and we all recognize that Miller and Sessions and Kelly are the authors of this policy and Nielsen is apparently fine with participating. But, you know, puppet or not, Trump is the fucking President; he is responsible for what his administration does, and he campaigned on being terrible to immigrants and treating them as subhuman. His supporters love this shit, they see it as fulfilling a campaign promise, and if anybody thinks he's not going to be bragging about it and leading chants of "lock them up" at upcoming rallies, they're kidding themselves. He does not get to say "oh, my handlers did it."
posted by FelliniBlank at 11:13 AM on June 17 [21 favorites]


The First Lady's office put out a statement: "Mrs. Trump hates to see children separated from their families and hopes both sides of the aisle can finally come together to achieve successful immigration reform."

It's meaningless "both sides" claptrap that puts the blame on partisanship rather than her husband, but it's still interesting to me that there's a statement at all. It's not like her office has felt compelled to put out a statement about how she hates to see all the other things that are happening. They are acutely aware of how monstrous this is, and are desperate to cast blame for their own policy.
posted by zachlipton at 11:14 AM on June 17 [47 favorites]


Here is a disturbing thread about other ways the administration is separating parents from children - by inventing concerns about whether the parents are actually related to the children.
posted by prefpara at 11:15 AM on June 17 [4 favorites]


"He does not get to say "oh, my handlers did it."
I totally agree with you. But we get to say that. We get to go after Stephen Miller like we did with Bannon and try to get him out of the White House. It is much easier for us to do that than to get Trump out. We have to take out who we can take out, and right now that is not Trump.
posted by W Grant at 11:17 AM on June 17 [7 favorites]


It's meaningless "both sides" claptrap that puts the blame on partisanship rather than her husband, but it's still interesting to me that there's a statement at all.

Not just blaming partisanship: it's subtly furthering the rhetoric of using the children as hostages in negotiating "successful immigration reform." It's worse than no statement at all.
posted by Rust Moranis at 11:22 AM on June 17 [27 favorites]


"Mrs. Trump hates to see children separated from their families and hopes both sides of the aisle can finally come together to achieve successful immigration reform."

The only way to interpret this that makes any sense is, “They wouldn’t be getting separated if there were a wall.” As if the separation is a force of nature and not a deliberate course of action that has been chosen by knowing individuals, which can be stopped by those individuals making the opposite choice.
posted by Sys Rq at 11:29 AM on June 17 [5 favorites]


It's not like her office has felt compelled to put out a statement about how she hates to see all the other things that are happening.

I will bet a significant number of donuts that Miller-Kelly et al were begging the Office Of The First Lady to jump in on the both-sides narrative because they can see how badly taking the children is playing among low-information unlikely-voting women. They want her to provide the excuse for those women to stay home in November.
posted by Etrigan at 11:29 AM on June 17 [15 favorites]


Which is to say: This is defense. They're scared.
posted by Etrigan at 11:30 AM on June 17 [29 favorites]


It's not a witch hunt if there's really a witch.
posted by Sphinx at 11:39 AM on June 17 [5 favorites]


They're all fucking Nazis.

Aaron Rupar (Think Progress)
.@SenatorCollins says she doesn't support legislative efforts to stop family separation because she thinks the bills on offer are "far too broad." Adds that she supports building the wall as part of a comprehensive solution.

VIDEO
posted by chris24 at 11:40 AM on June 17 [25 favorites]


I'm really uncomfortable with two threads of thought here that basically excuse or normalize Trump's behavior: that it's really Sessions or Stephen Miller (age 32) running the show, and that the US/UK/etc. also do horrible things to refugees.

This policy is uniquely fucked up and evil. Stephen Miller may be the hyper-ruthless lieutenant, the Lavrentiy Beria to Trump's Stalin. But Trump is still the Stalin.
posted by msalt at 11:44 AM on June 17 [34 favorites]


The First Lady's office put out a statement: "Mrs. Trump hates to see children separated from their families and hopes both sides of the aisle can finally come together to achieve successful immigration reform."

She similarly provided covering support for her husband's birtherism—"It’s not only Donald who wants to see [Obama's birth certificate], it’s American people who voted for him and who didn’t vote for him."—so it's not surprising to find her sticking her both-sides oar into this fiasco.

As far as I'm concerned, he should spend all his time golfing

If he were solely spending this time golfing, that would be preferably, but he's also using this time to confer with his cronies and meet with people away from the supervision of Kelly, the scrutiny of the White House press pool, and the documentation of the White House visitor's list. Whatever he comes up with on Twitter this evening will have been brainstormed on the Trump National's links and at its club house. (It's also infuriating that he's charging the Secret Service for golf cart rentals, but Trump never passes up an opportunity to squeeze a buck out of people.)
posted by Doktor Zed at 11:48 AM on June 17 [10 favorites]


On my way to the protest being put on by MIRAC here in Minneapolis, hope many local Mefites are also attending.
posted by misterpatrick at 11:51 AM on June 17 [19 favorites]


@SenatorTester
On this Father's Day, I'm announcing that I'm cosponsoring the Keeping Families Together Act. Ripping children from their mothers and fathers is sick and heartless, and it's contrary to our values as Montanans and Americans.

My man.
posted by Rust Moranis at 12:04 PM on June 17 [52 favorites]


I beleive McCaskill is also a yes?

Here's hoping people are working hard on Donnelly, and Heitkamp - anyone who does not sign up is of course unsalvageable.
posted by Artw at 12:11 PM on June 17 [3 favorites]


I'm really uncomfortable with two threads of thought here that basically excuse or normalize Trump's behavior: that it's really Sessions or Stephen Miller (age 32) running the show, and that the US/UK/etc. also do horrible things to refugees.
The greatest part of the President's job is to make decisions--big ones and small ones, dozens of them almost every day. The papers may circulate around the Government for a while but they finally reach this desk. And then, there's no place else for them to go. The President--whoever he is--has to decide. He can't pass the buck to anybody. No one else can do the deciding for him. That's his job.
Harry S. Truman
posted by kirkaracha at 12:11 PM on June 17 [23 favorites]


@SenatorTester
On this Father's Day, I'm announcing that I'm cosponsoring the Keeping Families Together Act. Ripping children from their mothers and fathers is sick and heartless, and it's contrary to our values as Montanans and Americans.


While I applaud their action and agree it needs to be done, the Democrats have to play up the fact they're stopping Trump's action, not "fixing the law" or it will play right into Trump's lie that it was their legislation that caused the problem in the first place.

The bill should be renamed the "Stop Trump From Caging Children Act."
posted by CheeseDigestsAll at 12:15 PM on June 17 [43 favorites]


As I have pointed out before MAGA is Spanish for witch (more literally, sorceress).
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 12:16 PM on June 17 [14 favorites]


Margaret Sullivan, Instead of Trump’s propaganda, how about a nice ‘truth sandwich’?
Unlike those who insist that what the president says is news and therefore must be reported, Lakoff proposes a radical reimagining of how the news media reports on Trump.

Instead of treating the president’s every tweet and utterance — true or false — as newsworthy (and then perhaps fact-checking it later), Lakoff urges the use of what he calls a “truth sandwich.”

First, he says, get as close to the overall, big-picture truth as possible right away. (Thus the gist of the Trump-in-Singapore story: Little of substance was accomplished in the summit with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un, despite the pageantry.) Then report what Trump is claiming about it: achievement of world peace. And then, in the same story or broadcast, fact-check his claims.

That’s the truth sandwich — reality, spin, reality — all in one tasty, democracy-nourishing meal.

Avoid retelling the lies. Avoid putting them in headlines, leads or tweets, he says. Because it is that very amplification that gives them power.
posted by zachlipton at 12:21 PM on June 17 [125 favorites]


FBI agent removed from Russia probe for anti-Trump texts says he’s willing to testify before Congress (WaPo)
The FBI agent who was removed from the investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 election for sending anti-Trump texts intends to testify before the House Judiciary Committee and any other congressional committee that asks, his attorney said in a letter made public Sunday.

Peter Strzok, who was singled out in a recent Justice Department inspector general report for the politically charged messages, would be willing to testify without immunity, and he would not invoke his Fifth Amendment rights in response to any question, his attorney, Aitan Goelman, said in an interview Sunday. Strzok has become a special target of President Trump, who has used the texts to question the Russia investigation.

Goelman said Strzok “wants the chance to clear his name and tell his story.”
posted by Barack Spinoza at 12:22 PM on June 17 [29 favorites]


I'm really uncomfortable with two threads of thought here that basically excuse or normalize Trump's behavior: that it's really Sessions or Stephen Miller (age 32) running the show, and that the US/UK/etc. also do horrible things to refugees.

There is no excuse for or normalization of Trumps behavior, if that is how I come across I apologize. The horrible things the US and the UK have done and are doing to black and brown people are facts. They are horrific facts, but they are the facts. I do not believe looking at the facts normalizes them, unless that is how we respond, if we accept them and then ignore them, allowing those things to continue. I am not advocating that. I am advocating fighting for our lives and our futures, by looking at the facts and making strategic decisions about what and how to fight rather than letting my anger react and lash out at the easy target.

"After graduating from college, Miller worked as a press secretary for Congresswoman Michele Bachmann and Congressman John Shadegg, both members of the Republican Party.[34] Miller started working for Alabama Senator and future Attorney General Jeff Sessions in 2009,[34] rising to the position of communications director.[21] In the 113th Congress, Miller played a major role in defeating the bi-partisan Gang of Eight's proposed immigration reform bill.[21][34] As part of his role as communications director, Miller was responsible for writing many of the speeches Sessions gave about the bill.[35] Miller and Sessions developed what Miller describes as "nation-state populism," a response to globalization and immigration that would strongly influence Donald Trump's 2016 campaign. Miller also worked on Dave Brat's successful 2014 House campaign, which unseated Republican Majority Leader Eric Cantor."

Donald Trump did not create or institute this zero tolerance policy. AG Jeff Sessions did. That Trump is the president and is defending it is just a fact of how awful Trump is - that does not change that Stephen Miller and Jeff Sessions have been working together undermining Immigration Reform since at least 2014 and developing horrific policies that Jeff Sessions is now in a position to implement and Stephen Miller is in a position to sell to Trump. I am not trying to exhonerate Trump, just point out that none of this originated with him and it has not been implemented by him. Repeatedly attacking Trump may feel good, but it's punching at the puppet. Start punching at the creators and the man implementing the policy, that's Miller and Sessions. We are not going to take Trump down over this. We may be able to take down Stephen Miller and maybe even Jeff Sessions, though, with a unified effort.
posted by W Grant at 12:42 PM on June 17 [16 favorites]


Children's identities are literally being replaced with "Alien Number X."

Alien number isn't a detainee thing. I have an alien number. It's written on the front of my green card and engraved into the back of the magstripe.
posted by Definitely Not Sean Spicer at 12:42 PM on June 17 [10 favorites]


Instead of treating the president’s every tweet and utterance — true or false — as newsworthy (and then perhaps fact-checking it later), Lakoff urges the use of what he calls a “truth sandwich.”

As an aside, MeFi favorite George Lakoff is collateral damage in the Trump-Russia scandal, having been targeted in a lawsuit by Trump Tower meeting attendee Irakly “Ike” Kaveladze over Lakoff's accusations that he's a money-launderer for Russia. Kaveladze's represented by sometime Trump attorney Scott Balber, but Lakoff's had to start a GoFundMe project for his legal defense. This is exactly the kind of "lawfare" that Putin's allies use to silence his critics.
posted by Doktor Zed at 12:50 PM on June 17 [30 favorites]


AP: Hundreds of children wait in Border Patrol facility in Texas

Hundreds of children are waiting away from their parents inside a Border Patrol holding facility in South Texas, with groups of 20 or more children to a single cage. There are bottles of water, bags of chips, and large foil sheets intended to serve as blankets. [...] The Border Patrol says it’s providing adequate meals, bathrooms access and medical care to people being held. But Michelle Brane of the Women’s Refugee Commission says she’s met a teenager caring for an unrelated young child because they’ve been separated from their adult guardians.
posted by Rust Moranis at 12:58 PM on June 17 [31 favorites]


Comparing the Trump administration to the previous WWII era Nazi infestation is inaccurate in one respect. Back then there was only ever one concentration camp specifically for children: The "Shelter for the refugee children", ostensibly for the purpose of "upbringing and re-education". Altogether a total of 6,693 children ended up there. To date there are reported to be 10,000 in the U.S. "shelters".

In other respects things are very much the same, however:
"How many children came, and where they were dispatched, could no longer be found out. The children in the children's barracks cried inexorably and were calling their mothers, who were only a few steps away from the children, but the fascist criminals did not let mothers to approach their children. Older children tell us through tears, that they can not calm the little ones, because they are hungry, there are no one to change diapers of the little ones, and they are afraid that everyone will die. These children, who have not yet reached the age of ten, swear to us, "Come on, sister, bring us mothers, bring at least mothers to these little ones. You will see, if you do not bring them their mothers, they will suffocate, by the tears alone."
- Testimony of Jana Koh, the Croatian Red Cross secretary.

I realise it's a minor point in Kellyanne Conway's using Holocaust victims as a human shield, but (and I realise I'm probably overinterpreting),
"there are people comparing this to Nazis: what an outrageous disrespect to the six million people who died in that time."
that is a really weird and unsettling use of the passive voice.
posted by Buntix at 1:07 PM on June 17 [53 favorites]


It is unclear if they have deathcount yet, but once they do you can be assured it will be discussed super, super passively.
posted by Artw at 1:16 PM on June 17 [17 favorites]




NYT, Miriam Jordan, ‘I Can’t Go Without My Son,’ a Mother Pleaded as She Was Deported to Guatemala
n federal court, parents typically plead guilty to the misdemeanor offense of illegal entry. Many are then likely to accept “expedited removal” from the country, in the hope of being reunited quickly with their children. But children cannot be subject to expedited removal; they are automatically entitled to a full hearing before an immigration judge, and their cases take longer to resolve.

“Once the parent and child are apart, they are on separate legal tracks,” said John Sandweg, who was acting director of ICE during the Obama administration.

Reunification becomes particularly difficult when a parent is deported without the child and is no longer on American soil, Mr. Sandweg said; in those cases, “there is a very high risk that parents and children will be permanently separated.”
...
Ms. Ortiz recalled sobbing heavily as she reluctantly climbed the steps to the plane that would take her and dozens of other deported migrants back to Guatemala early in June. She said she was the last to board.

“Please don’t put me on the plane,” she remembered pleading over and over in Spanish. “I can’t go without my son.”

“I was shaking, I could barely walk,” Ms. Ortiz recalled. She said that an American immigration officer escorting her across the tarmac was also in tears. “She told me to talk to the boss when I got inside the plane,” Ms. Ortiz said.

But he did not listen.

“I cried the entire flight,” she said. “When I arrived at the airport in Guatemala, I was almost fainting. They gave me a tranquilizer.”
posted by zachlipton at 1:24 PM on June 17 [39 favorites]


that is a really weird and unsettling use of the passive voice.

That’s not passive voice. “Die” is an intransitive verb that doesn’t require an object, and passive voice requires making the object into the subject. It would be passive if she’d said “...who were killed in that time”.

She’s not grammatically obscuring what happened, she’s just regular-obscuring it.
posted by Etrigan at 1:25 PM on June 17 [29 favorites]


Protest today at the South Bay jail in Boston, where the Suffolk County Sheriff's Department makes money by renting cells to ICE (something they've been doing since before the current administration). More video.
posted by adamg at 1:40 PM on June 17 [12 favorites]


Alien number isn't a detainee thing. I have an alien number. It's written on the front of my green card and engraved into the back of the magstripe.

It's not solely a detainee thing, but it is also a detainee thing. I am not sure that being numbered and forcibly detained is something where the knowledge that others not bring detained are issued numbers in better circumstances is much help. It's the difference between an SSN and a prisoner number.
posted by jaduncan at 1:41 PM on June 17 [2 favorites]


Wondering if any European or Russian families have been split up this way yet.
posted by ZeusHumms at 1:44 PM on June 17 [30 favorites]


It's not solely a detainee thing, but it is also a detainee thing.

Yes. Exactly. It's an everything thing. But "Alien number" sounds scary and depersonalizing and people use it because it's trying to instill an emotion in you about these kids. It's not a bad emotion but it's the exact same style of bullshit that we exasperatedly try to debunk with Snopes articles on Facebook feeds.

I am not sure that being numbered and forcibly detained is something where the knowledge that others not bring detained are issued numbers in better circumstances is much help.

It makes us look bad and intellectually dishonest when someone can point out in seconds how this super macabre concept is rather benign. There's so many more things to be horrified about like the clusterfuck in its entirety.
posted by Definitely Not Sean Spicer at 2:05 PM on June 17 [5 favorites]


I don’t think “separated” covers what’s happening. No one seems to know how they’re going to reunite these families. They’re stealing children.
posted by schadenfrau at 2:12 PM on June 17 [53 favorites]


I don't actually agree it's benign due to the tendency to dehumanise detainees, although when kids are also being stolen from parents the numbers would not rate
in my top 20 issues.
posted by jaduncan at 2:14 PM on June 17 [1 favorite]


If You Ask Me: Only Deadpool Can Save Us Now (Libby-Gelman Waxner, New Yorker)
People have been asking me, as a proud Jewish woman and the spokesperson for my slavishly dedicated fans everywhere, “What do you make of Roseanne Barr and her downfall?” I tell them that it’s a clear example of Libby’s Law: when a person has been rich and famous for more than half of her life, she has probably completely lost touch with reality. When Roseanne continues to refer to herself as the voice of the working class, whom is she talking about? Her team of accountants? Her beleaguered publicists? The working people who service her vehicles and estates? Roseanne’s turned into Evita without the demonic charm, tweeting from her palace balcony.

Trump, of course, has enjoyed only the cheesiest and most embarrassing forms of wealth and celebrity for decades, which is why, even in his Brioni suits, he comes across as the owner of an Omaha used-car dealership starring in his own cable ads.

Trump’s entire political outlook can be reduced to pitching suckers a bad deal on a rusted Toyota and then crowing about it. Ivanka, who has enjoyed second-tier, achievement-free stardom since birth, is even sadder, since she’s desperate to be considered a genteel, adored lady of taste and quality. She’s taken the Joan Crawford playbook to heart, clearly spending most of her day poring over her own Photoshopped images and policing them to eliminate any hint of blemished truth. On her Instagram, she’s always holding her towheaded children aloft and almost nuzzling them with her polished cheek or unlined forehead, without quite making the physical contact that could cause facial creasing, not to mention actual emotion.
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 2:14 PM on June 17 [35 favorites]


One thing that's worrying me is the known fact that these people are not just evil but incompetent and unprepared. They are implementing this hideous policy without anything near the resources, facilities, funding, or infrastructure to handle the numbers of parents and kids. Just what do DHS and HHS think is going to happen when they cram thousands of traumatized (which means immune-suppressed) poor little kids into close shoddy quarters without sufficient staffing and healthcare resources? They're looking at cholera, typhus, TB outbreaks.
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:21 PM on June 17 [34 favorites]


Five immigrants dead in crash southwest of San Antonio

Authorities are investigating the scene where a car full of unauthorized immigrants being chased by Border Patrol agents crashed. Dimmit County deputies say the crash happened off Texas 85 in Big Wells around noon. Fourteen people were inside, including the driver and passenger, KSAT 12 reports.

A death occurring in the act of pursuing people with the intent to kidnap their children would count as Felony Murder.
posted by Rust Moranis at 2:27 PM on June 17 [30 favorites]


Kellyanne Conway ... ends with "there are people comparing this to Nazis: what an outrageous disrespect to the six million people who died in that time."

It's really wrongheaded (and sneaky) framing to act like genocide is a quick event, barely a statistic in our review mirror, when it's actually a process that unfolds over time. We can now see harbingers of another genocide. It's not disrespectful to scream our heads off about it.
posted by puddledork at 2:34 PM on June 17 [33 favorites]




It's really wrongheaded (and sneaky) framing to act like genocide is a quick event, barely a statistic in our review mirror, when it's actually a process that unfolds over time.

Right, this isn't the Nazis circa 1942. It's the Nazis circa 1934.
posted by Justinian at 2:36 PM on June 17 [40 favorites]


I'm just back from the rally against family separation in Seattle. It was about what I expected--not huge, but they filled up Westlake Park, which is a little plaza in downtown. Several of the speakers were organizers and local/state legislators. Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal was there.

Takeaways from what she said:
* There is a mass mobilization effort in the works for marches in DC and elsewhere, and hopefully we'll see stuff on it in the next 24 hours. The hopefully seemed an important caveat on timing, but the organizing is happening.

* She very clearly pointed out this is a policy decision by the White House, not a law, and therefore it can be reversed with the same level of policy decision. Bills are circulating in both houses of Congress, but ultimately Trump could just decide to stop this shit.

* She spoke with many of the close to 200 women sent to the federal prison in SeaTac held as a result of this zero tolerance stuff. She said all but a handful of them were seeking asylum, which of course is legal, and yet they were arrested, detained, separated, etc.
She also pointed out that the federal prison is under professional management, its guards are unionized, etc -- which is important to note, because she said these women told her the federal prison was the first place they'd been treated like human beings. This place holds some actual dangerous criminals, it is literal prison, and yet they're more humane there than ICE custody.

* ICE conditions involve freezing cold cells, no blankets, etc., and not even clean drinking water. ICE denies this, but the federal prison staff and the warden told her they've been hearing about this from prisoners from the beginning.

* Among the usual "call your representatives, talk to your family outside the district and the state and ask them to contact theirs," Jayapal put up an interesting suggestion: the White House has disconnected their direct line for the public, but you can always call the Trump Hotel to complain about this policy.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 2:41 PM on June 17 [95 favorites]


Oh, one other thing: Jayapal said she has had Republicans tell her privately they know this is bad, she's seen them consistently run away even from committee hearings where it might come up--but they aren't coming out against it publicly. Which says a lot.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 2:58 PM on June 17 [41 favorites]


Thread: "And you cannot -- I can't believe we are still going over this -- you cannot convert a fascist to a nonfascist by appealing to their empathy."
posted by prefpara at 3:13 PM on June 17 [46 favorites]



Jules Susdaltsev (@jules_su):
Heads up! You can send prison inmates completely unsolicited mail!

Paul Manafort
Inmate Number 00045343
Northern Neck Regional Jail
PO Box 1060
Warsaw, VA 22572
Thread includes photos of some of inmate 45343's new mail.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 3:21 PM on June 17 [46 favorites]


Also from Suzdaltsev: "It’s pretty f*cking amazing that Trump’s number one bargaining tool is holding children literally hostage (DACA, CHIP, child concentration camps), then saying Democrats forced his hand by not approving awful anti-immigration legislation, to which Democrats cave *every time*."
posted by Doktor Zed at 3:32 PM on June 17 [28 favorites]


Right, this isn't the Nazis circa 1942. It's the Nazis circa 1934.

Kellyanne Conway occupies the exact same position as Joseph Goebbels did. She would've been defending the holocaust if she had been alive at the time, and it's impossible to envision any action, up to and including death camps, that she wouldn't defend going forward.
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:34 PM on June 17 [37 favorites]


I've also seen a bit of social media blah blah about how important it is to tell stories and frame narratives with real stories and somehow hearing a story will change someone's mind and this was actually a couple weeks ago but at the time I was like, yeah I don't think so. And lo and behold, every real story of real children crying real inconsolable tears is met by the fuck your feelings crowd exactly how you would predict. Fuck that child's feelings, fuck the parents' feelings, fuck the libs' feelings, fuck everyone's feelings but my own (those are super mega important). Again: I don't know how people get like this and I definitely do not know how to get them to not be like this. I'm not sure it's possible.
posted by soren_lorensen at 3:37 PM on June 17 [31 favorites]


Sens. Heitkamp, Donnelly, and Jones have all signed onto S.3036. The only Democrat remaining is--and I know this is totally going to surprise everybody--Joe Manchin.

Also still remaining on the side of concentration camps: Everybody in the GOP.
posted by zombieflanders at 3:38 PM on June 17 [50 favorites]


"It’s pretty f*cking amazing that Trump’s number one bargaining tool is holding children literally hostage (DACA, CHIP, child concentration camps), then saying Democrats forced his hand by not approving awful anti-immigration legislation, to which Democrats cave *every time*."

Uh, what anti-immigration legislation did the Democrats cave on exactly? They haven't, so far as I am aware, voted for or against any such legislation because the Rs haven't brought any up for a vote?
posted by Justinian at 3:38 PM on June 17 [13 favorites]


But "Alien number" sounds scary and depersonalizing and people use it because it's trying to instill an emotion in you about these kids.

The fact that an infant is recorded as Alien #123456 rather than "José and María's son Alejandro" is literally depersonalising. In context it's one of the reflexive bureaucratic things officials do while interning young children and deporting their parents. It's not for the benefit of the people concerned: they can't access official records, and there's no indication that these numbers are being used to, e.g., let attorneys access other family members.

ID numbers may not be one of the sadistic flourishes introduced for the sake of further demoralising people, but that's only because they didn't need to. The essential elements of a totalitarian regime already exist, like personal-status courts and militarised police. Saying that ID numbers aren't scary in themselves is really missing the point. Everything is being weaponised against the enemies of the regime, and it is legitimately terrifying.
posted by Joe in Australia at 3:49 PM on June 17 [25 favorites]


Uh, what anti-immigration legislation did the Democrats cave on exactly? They haven't, so far as I am aware, voted for or against any such legislation because the Rs haven't brought any up for a vote?

Dems caves on the government shutdown when offered a transparently false promise of a DACA vote.
posted by Artw at 3:52 PM on June 17 [13 favorites]


If these are the "good" pictures they'll let us see - they're not good - imagine what we don't see.

David Begnaud (CBS)
These images were just released by border patrol @CBP showing the McAllen, Texas detention facility that we were allowed to tour today. For now, we can only rely on what they give us. They will not allow us inside to film on our own. Why? “Privacy”; they don’t want faces shown
PIX1-4 PIX5
posted by chris24 at 4:07 PM on June 17 [29 favorites]


we're gonna need an amendment to that bill requiring an autopsy, independent investigation, and public report for a child that dies in custody. did i just type that on fathers' day? fuckkk me.
posted by j_curiouser at 4:09 PM on June 17 [29 favorites]


They will not allow us inside to film on our own. Why? “Privacy”; they don’t want faces shown

Hey if someone wants to hire me as a "new reporter," I'll wear the hidden camera. I can even do my own face-blurring.
posted by rhizome at 4:42 PM on June 17 [1 favorite]


Fuck that child's feelings, fuck the parents' feelings, fuck the libs' feelings, fuck everyone's feelings but my own (those are super mega important). Again: I don't know how people get like this and I definitely do not know how to get them to not be like this. I'm not sure it's possible.

It's not possible. Fuck 'em. It's time to put our best efforts into being part of the tide that washes over them and buries them in silt. Donate, call your Congresscritters, protest, volunteer for a campaign.
posted by soundguy99 at 4:48 PM on June 17 [24 favorites]


It's not possible. Fuck 'em.

It's possible but it was mostly done from 1943 until around 1948.
posted by Rust Moranis at 4:52 PM on June 17 [4 favorites]


did i just type that on fathers' day?

You're not alone.

@MerriamWebster
Top lookups today: father, dad, daddy, honor, concentration camp
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 4:53 PM on June 17 [74 favorites]


On her Instagram, [Ivanka]’s always holding her towheaded children aloft and almost nuzzling them with her polished cheek or unlined forehead, without quite making the physical contact that could cause facial creasing, not to mention actual emotion.

I would love to see a reporter ask Donald Trump, "Given that today is Father's Day, when was the last time you hugged your son Barron?"
posted by msalt at 4:57 PM on June 17 [14 favorites]


16 days until the 4th of july, when we celebrate our country's freedom and heritage of shining a light to the rest of the world

only we can't really do that this year - not with children being taken away from their parents for no other reason then they showed up at the wrong border at the wrong time ...

i think the 4th should be a national day of protest - remind the flag wavers and the fireworks fans that children are being put in concentration camps in this country and let them experience some bitterness to go with their holiday
posted by pyramid termite at 4:59 PM on June 17 [44 favorites]


Today: Sec. Kirstjen Nielsen
‏@SecNielsen
We do not have a policy of separating families at the border. Period.

CNN a month ago: DHS secretary defends separating families at the border

Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen on Tuesday defended an agency policy that will result in more families being separated at the border, saying, under a barrage of questions at a Senate hearing, that similar separations happen in the US "every day."

In a month we should expect them to say that were never any children at all.
posted by Rust Moranis at 5:05 PM on June 17 [56 favorites]


Ipsos vis Daily Beast: Poll: Republicans Approve of Trump’s Family Separation Policy

To the statement “It is appropriate to separate undocumented immigrant parents from their children when they cross the border in order to discourage others from crossing the border illegally,”

Overall agree: 27%(naturally)
D: 13. I: 29. R: 46

Less than 1 in 3 Republicans disagrees with the policy. The GOP owns this, elected officials and voters both. "Disagreeing" Republicans just want a tax cut more than they don't want child concentration camps.
posted by Rust Moranis at 5:23 PM on June 17 [34 favorites]


David Begnaud (CBS): These images were just released by border patrol @CBP showing the McAllen, Texas detention facility that we were allowed to tour today. For now, we can only rely on what they give us. They will not allow us inside to film on our own. Why? “Privacy”; they don’t want faces shown

Brian Stelter (CNN)
"No cages" has been a pro-Trump talking point lately. "They're not in cages," @HuntsmanAbby said on Fox. Now these pictures come out...
posted by chris24 at 5:23 PM on June 17 [17 favorites]


Kirstjen Nielsen, an attorney, is well accustomed to speaking hyper-precisely. The US doesn't have a policy of separating families at the border: they profess to be concerned that children may be the victims of human trafficking, and therefore separate them from the adults ostensibly responsible for them. Similarly, she has said that the US doesn't arrest refugees arriving through a port of entry. What she didn't say was that the US has made it impossible for refugees to cross at most of these points, and so they get arrested when they enter at another point. Refugees, of course, shouldn't be arrested at all. This hyper-literalism is just meant to obfuscate the awful truth.
posted by Joe in Australia at 5:25 PM on June 17 [75 favorites]


pyramid termite - the interwebs seems to be coalescing around July 1 as a day of protest, both at ICE camps and state/local facilities that intern migrants.
So far, I've only seen snark phrasing ("surely I'm not..."), but it might be worth penciling in one's calendar. (It's searchable on the Facebook, but I'm dumb and can't figure out how to post here on mobile)
posted by Sweetdefenestration at 5:27 PM on June 17 [1 favorite]


Question: If/when the parents are deported, what happens to the children? Do they stay in the camps indefinitely? Are they sent back too? I've been trying to find that out but been unsuccessful.
posted by sundrop at 5:28 PM on June 17 [2 favorites]


If/when the parents are deported, what happens to the children? Do they stay in the camps indefinitely? Are they sent back too? I've been trying to find that out but been unsuccessful.

[shrug emoji] followed by Nuremberg Trials.
posted by Rust Moranis at 5:30 PM on June 17 [8 favorites]


Kirstjen Nielsen, an attorney, is well accustomed to speaking hyper-precisely. The US doesn't have a policy of separating families at the border: they profess to be concerned that children may be the victims of human trafficking, and therefore separate them from the adults ostensibly responsible for them.

I think that's even too generous to Nielsen, who is a fucking monster along with John Kelly. She's saying "we" meaning "the Trump administration" does not have the policy of family separation, because it's the Democrat's policy. She's not even being overly lawyerly, she's spouting the same Stephen Miller approved lines somehow blaming the Flores court opinion as "a Democratic law" requiring this evil, even though it has never happened before.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:31 PM on June 17 [27 favorites]


what happens to the children?

"or whatever"

- John Kelly
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:33 PM on June 17 [42 favorites]


what happens to the children?
According to the articles I've read on the blue, parents are dealt with under DHS, but children are dealt with under OOR as unaccompanied minors, so there's a real possibility that they become lost to each other. (on mobile, sorry no links atm)
posted by Sweetdefenestration at 5:46 PM on June 17 [4 favorites]


what happens to the children?

No bell will ring for them.
posted by parki at 5:49 PM on June 17 [13 favorites]


Laura Bush calls out the border policy in the Washington Post (open link in a private/incognito window if you've used up this month's views already):
I live in a border state. I appreciate the need to enforce and protect our international boundaries, but this zero-tolerance policy is cruel. It is immoral. And it breaks my heart.

Our government should not be in the business of warehousing children in converted box stores or making plans to place them in tent cities in the desert outside of El Paso. These images are eerily reminiscent of the Japanese American internment camps of World War II, now considered to have been one of the most shameful episodes in U.S. history. We also know that this treatment inflicts trauma; interned Japanese have been two times as likely to suffer cardiovascular disease or die prematurely than those who were not interned.

Americans pride ourselves on being a moral nation, on being the nation that sends humanitarian relief to places devastated by natural disasters or famine or war. We pride ourselves on believing that people should be seen for the content of their character, not the color of their skin. We pride ourselves on acceptance. If we are truly that country, then it is our obligation to reunite these detained children with their parents — and to stop separating parents and children in the first place. ...
posted by maudlin at 6:22 PM on June 17 [87 favorites]


Since the heretofore etiquette held that former presidents don't criticize later ones, this is probably as close as we'll get to that.

Trump will ignore it.
posted by rhizome at 6:40 PM on June 17 [8 favorites]


the heretofore etiquette held that former presidents don't criticize later ones

well maybe it's time to let that standard go too
posted by thelonius at 6:42 PM on June 17 [67 favorites]


Breitbart is taking the newspeak initiative on the part of the administration: Associated Press Uses ‘Cages’ to Describe Chain-Link Partitions in Border Patrol Center

Cages = "chain-link partitions." See, everybody? Completely different. We can add the euphemism to the Dictionary of the New Age. Note that this is the same writer that put out Breitbart's "the shelters are like luxury resorts" piece yesterday. I guess "normalize child concentration camps" is his regular beat now.

Klemperer started work on his Lingua Tertii Imperii early in the Nazi era. I wonder if any philologists are working on one now.
posted by Rust Moranis at 6:50 PM on June 17 [14 favorites]


this is probably as close as we'll get to that.

And it's using the dogwhistle "content of their character, not the color of their skin" crap to say how utterly horrible the current Trump admin is - not horrible in character but horrible in execution of the Republican brand by keeping the unsaid stuff unsaid or done more subtly.

I'm guessing that the American oligarchs are using Trump as an uber-Overton Window pusher so, afterwards, any (small) social reform will take attention away from the lack of reform in massive financial crimes.
posted by porpoise at 6:52 PM on June 17 [4 favorites]


I'm guessing that the American oligarchs thought that's what they were doing with Trump, and that things have gotten out of hand, and they still (erroneously) believe they can bring him back in line.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 7:01 PM on June 17 [6 favorites]


From Rust Moranis’ link on Klemperer, one of the euphemisms used by the Nazis jumped out at me:

“Verschärfte Vernehmung ("enhanced interrogation"): torture”

So, there’s that...
posted by darkstar at 7:05 PM on June 17 [19 favorites]


Again: I don't know how people get like this and I definitely do not know how to get them to not be like this. I'm not sure it's possible.

white supremacy, white nationalism.
posted by poffin boffin at 7:08 PM on June 17 [12 favorites]


This is the best explanation I've found re: Obama vs. Trump:

The short answer is Trump's switch to a zero tolerance policy, where any immigrants of illegal status are being prosecuted, versus Obama administration's focus mostly on violent/criminal offenders. While families with children were occasionally detained under Obama, they would typically be placed into short-term detention and then released on bond. Under Trump's zero-tolerance rules, the parents are being placed in prison, where their kids obviously cannot go, so the kids are then being housed elsewhere.

The difference, in other words, is the end of "catch and release", which you may have seen conservative pundits yelling about during the Obama years. The problem, it turns out, is that when you don't release, you've got to figure out where to put everyone you caught.

The 2014 photos of "children in cages" (or whatever you want to call it) under Obama were the result of an unusual spike in unaccompanied children coming to the border and getting backed up in processing. Although there were a lot of children without parents, that was not a case of kids being separated from parents, it was a case of these children entering the system without parents.

Trump's administration themselves say that what's happening now is a new and different policy. It's an intentional new tactic, meant to dissuade families from trying to cross the border illegally. Trump has publicly denied responsibility for this policy (obviously), but in court, Trump's DOJ argued the opposite (because they wanted to prove that the courts didn't have the right to interfere with ICE detention policy).

Note also: separating families is a different issue from the 1,500 "missing children." Those children, like the kids from the Obama-era pictures, arrived at the border unaccompanied. So while DHHS obviously fucked up in keeping track of them, those aren't cases of kids and parents being separated. As far as I can tell, although Trump's policies ARE separating families, they haven't lost any of those children.
posted by Marie Mon Dieu at 7:11 PM on June 17 [43 favorites]


immigrants of illegal status

It is not illegal to request asylum at the border.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 7:14 PM on June 17 [55 favorites]


WTF reality did I wake up in today when I am loving Laura Bush and tearing up because I agree with her and I am so grateful she is helping shine a spotlight on the the horrors of the Republican party's actions?

I just received an e-mail from Indivisible Chicago, Chicago's rally is "Saturday June 30, from 11:30-2:00 in Federal Plaza and it is growing very quickly in size. It has been public from about a day and already there are almost 1000 people going." I think this will be one of our largest events.
posted by W Grant at 7:17 PM on June 17 [16 favorites]


And even for those who aren't seeking asylum, the policy is despicable and cruel. Focusing on the legality of the asylum part can overshadow that separating families, with the possibility that they are never reunited, for what is a misdemeanor civil violation is immoral and wrong. Unless these fuckers who think it's ok are fine with me coming to take their kid when they run a stop sign, they can fuck off forever.
posted by chris24 at 7:19 PM on June 17 [43 favorites]


FBI agent removed from Russia probe for anti-Trump texts says he’s willing to testify before Congress (WaPo)

Like clockwork, Trump went on a Twitter rant this evening about "the FBI’s sick loser, Peter Strzok", "the totally discredited Mueller team of 13 Angry & Conflicted Democrats", "Fake News Media", "Slippery James Comey", and "Witch Hunt!" (And Trey Gowdy receives a shout-out for his ingratiating interview this morning with Chris Wallace about the Justice Department Inspector General's report.) Trump's tabloid rhetoric is straight out of the New York Post, but unlike his outburst this morning before hitting the links, these tweets sound like they were at least edited by staff. In any case, they provide cover to the Capitol Hill Trumpists to attack Wray and the FBI in the wake of the DoJ IG report.
posted by Doktor Zed at 7:23 PM on June 17 [1 favorite]


It makes us look bad and intellectually dishonest when someone can point out in seconds how this super macabre concept is rather benign.

The Nazis did it. The Nazis are doing it. Macabre and benign together is the banality of evil. Get worked up or don't but there's no argument to be had here. They're splitting families to terrorize them. Stop this.
posted by petebest at 7:38 PM on June 17 [20 favorites]


while DHHS obviously fucked up in keeping track of them

A lot of these kids were asking for sanctuary from gangs, or other mortal dangers. My impression is that agents weren't tracking these kids very carefully on purpose, out of intended kindness.

If you petition the court for sanctuary, you have to prove you need it in court, which isn't always possible. I would probably have given one of these kids to a "family member" as well and then helped them get "lost in the system". Not that that turned out so well in many cases...
posted by xammerboy at 7:43 PM on June 17


I just want to remind everyone that there have been no reports about female children. Where they are, who is caring for them, if their sanitary and health needs are being met.

WHERE ARE THE GIRLS?
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 8:28 PM on June 17 [41 favorites]


WHERE ARE THE GIRLS?

There appear to be some in photos 4 and 5 here.
posted by hades at 8:33 PM on June 17 [3 favorites]


WHERE ARE THE GIRLS?
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet
Thank you. Noted and will be mentioned as my first comment when I call my Senator's and Rep again tomorrow and when I fax my lame ass Republican governor's office. I may even call Rauner's office tomorrow instead of faxing him.
posted by W Grant at 8:33 PM on June 17


Everything Trump is doing now wrt to "stopping illegal immigration" i.e. the demonisation of refugees, the detention in bleak conditions, the false claim that refugees are "illegal" - sad to say Australia has been doing that for over a decade. And Trump is well aware of it - he referred to it during his campaign.

He is following the Australian govt's playbook.
posted by awfurby at 8:35 PM on June 17 [18 favorites]


WHERE ARE THE GIRLS?

If they're white and Republican, they're here (NYT): Trumpism Finds a Safe Space at Conservative Women’s Conference

Cheyenne Martin, a 19-year-old student at Georgetown University, described being ridiculed by classmates for her desire to lead the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency one day. But this weekend she was met with a standing ovation.
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:40 PM on June 17 [1 favorite]


Those conservative women are ready for the Lebensborn.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:47 PM on June 17 [9 favorites]


@SenFeinstein: UPDATE: 48 senators now support the Keep Families Together Act. We're making progress, but we still need Republicans to join. If you're represented by a Republican senator, tell them to support S.3036. #KeepFamiliesTogether
posted by Chrysostom at 9:14 PM on June 17 [28 favorites]


It's all a part of the Republican #MeToo movement:
One 17-year-old wearing a “Make America Great Again” hat said she doubted the widely accepted statistic that one in four college women experience rape or attempted rape — but if it was true, the reason was because “we’re importing rape culture” through illegal immigration and homosexuality.
posted by xammerboy at 9:20 PM on June 17 [10 favorites]


@ICEgov
Learn more about HERO Child-Rescue Corps

The pictured ICE agent has an Iron Cross tattoo.
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:23 PM on June 17 [51 favorites]


“we’re importing rape culture” through illegal immigration and homosexuality.

I... no actually I don’t want to know, it’s all bullshit anyway. These racist homophobic shitstains can fuck all of the way off regardless.
posted by Artw at 9:31 PM on June 17 [17 favorites]


You should really take the time to read Oscar Wilde's letter asking for mercy - on behalf of others, not his own self! - in Reading Gaol. Here it is, reprinted by Slate, but you may find a reproduction of the brochure in which his letter was originally reprinted at archive.org.

I wish I knew what became of Martin, and the children.
posted by Joe in Australia at 9:34 PM on June 17 [6 favorites]


Does anyone here get the sense that Trump has grown into to the job? Obviously in the most odious of ways of course, but for the first several months of his presidency Trump flailed and veered all over the place.

He's still doing that, but now he has grown more comfortable with the power he wields, and the bullying aspect of his true nature has taken full flight.

He gets off on hurting people, he has his whole life, and the role of president has given him untold opportunity to do this on a scale he could only dream of before.

He's such a clusterfucking idiotstick of a human being that it took him over a year to realize this.
posted by Phlegmco(tm) at 9:38 PM on June 17 [14 favorites]


The pictured ICE agent has an Iron Cross tattoo.

Are you sure? It looks like it has five points to me. Does anyone recognize the characters in the tattoos? I know I've seen them before but am drawing a blank on what they're from.
posted by Candleman at 9:42 PM on June 17


Tomorrow's New York Post -- owned by Murdoch and Trump's fave tabloid -- from the Editorial Board.

Stop breaking up families at the border
It’s not just that this looks terrible in the eyes of the world. It is terrible: at least 2,000 children ripped from their parents’ arms, sometimes literally, in just the first six weeks.

Maybe the White House figures families will stop coming once word gets out, but they won’t all stop: Some are fleeing truly horrific situations back home.

We recognize that returning to the policy of two months back creates some perverse incentives: Bring kids along, and you’ll just be deported if you’re caught. But at least switching back avoids having the US government earning comparisons to the Nazis.
posted by chris24 at 9:46 PM on June 17 [29 favorites]


It looks like it has five points to me.
It's on the bend of his elbow, it's an illusion of the angle, straighten it out, it's a cross, not a five pointed symbol.
posted by W Grant at 9:46 PM on June 17


I do think it's a 4-pointed Maltese cross, that it looks like it might have 5 is because of the angle of his arm. And, yes, given the context that's... not a good look.

But it is absolutely possible that this isn't a neonazi symbol; the maltese with the sorta rounded arms like that is used very commonly in firefighter logos. I have no idea if that's what's going on here without being able to make out the symbol in the center of the tattoo but everyone should be aware there are a lot of non-neonazi uses of a Maltese Cross (which isn't exactly the same as the look of an Iron Cross).
posted by Justinian at 9:47 PM on June 17 [6 favorites]


I thing they're talking about the partially obscured one on his elbow. The long word in the number 1 is "Guadacanal"
posted by mbo at 9:47 PM on June 17


The pictured ICE agent has an Iron Cross tattoo. Are you sure?

It's not just the Iron Cross, it's his whole arm: Rune characters, an Imperial Eagle, maybe even German under the clouds with a cross.... I'll bet ten bucks there's a swastika on his chest.
posted by xammerboy at 9:49 PM on June 17 [5 favorites]


TNR: Dismantle the Department of Homeland Security
posted by Chrysostom at 9:53 PM on June 17 [26 favorites]


The "runes" are ancient greek rather than Futhark which is more closely associated with Nazism. I can't read greek soooo. The Eagle is pretty clearly a bald eagle, which appears on our seal and all our money. I don't see anything which looks like German. There does appear to be an OM at the bottom but for all we know that says MOM.

I hope I've built up enough goodwill here that people understand I'm not bending over backwards to defend a possible neonazi. But... unless someone can identify that symbol in the maltese cross it's thin at best.
posted by Justinian at 9:54 PM on June 17 [24 favorites]


WHERE ARE THE GIRLS?

There appear to be some in photos 4 and 5 here.
posted by hades at 10:33 PM on June 17


That's ICE facilities. We have no pictures or reports of what happens to the girls when ICE remands them to custody of....HHS? Who? Where? Where are all the girls?
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 9:56 PM on June 17 [10 favorites]


The 1 with Guadalcanal in it is a 1st Marine Duvision insignia. For all I know the other vaguely dodgy looking stuff is just US military stuff cos that stuff just looks vaguely fascist and dodgy anyway... but I’m pretty sure the elbow is an iron cross. Let’s face it, if it isn’t they consider the fact that it might look like one a plus.
posted by Artw at 10:01 PM on June 17 [4 favorites]


An end-of-the-weekend assortment (also known as the the sweet feeling of relief when you get to close a whole bunch of browser tabs in one go):

Axios, Fly on the wall: When POTUS goes off-script, on that time in March when Trump abruptly announced in the middle of an infrastructure speech that we were pulling out of Syria right away, and then that didn't happen:
We’re told by someone who heard the remarks directly that just before Trump took the podium at 2 p.m. at a union training site in Richfield, Ohio, there was this fascinating exchange back in the West Wing:

White House chief of staff John Kelly was watching walk-up TV coverage in the outer office of his suite.
Deputy Chief of Staff Joe Hagin sidled across the hall and stood in the doorway.
Indicating the president, Kelly said: “He swore to me that he wouldn’t announce anything on Syria.”
Hagin replied: “Well, we’ve heard promises like that before. We really won’t know till he’s done talking.”
Kelly, a retired four-star Marine general, said: “I think he knows he can’t fuck us on this.”
Hagin cocked his head — he'd heard that before.
NPR, FEMA Blamed Delays In Puerto Rico On Maria; Agency Records Tell Another Story. FEMA claimed to have 500 generators in Puerto Rico before the storm; they had 25. Their plastic roof program ran out of plastic and they only had 125,000 tarps, months after they were needed. Democrats have introduced a bill, which is naturally going nowhere, to create an independent comission to investigate the Puerto Rico hurricane response. FEMA says the storm is "the villain" here.

Politico, Court: Federal government doesn’t owe insurers Obamacare payments. An appellate panel rejected claims that that the government should have to pay up on the risk corridor payments they promised to health insurers. This is $12+ billion in funds promised to health insurance companies that Republicans got angry about and decided not to pay. It's basically over at this point (though this will surely be appealed), as the insurers who didn't go broke have raised premiums accordingly, but it's just another form of GOP sabotage of the ACA.

There's a court challenge over Kentucky's Medicaid work requirements. The argument they're seriously going with is that the waiver (which allows the work requirements to happen) promotes the objectives of Medicaid because otherwise the governor will revoke the Medicaid expansion. So their legal argument is just straight-up that the governor is holding the program hostage, so even though it seems like the work requirement would reduce coverage, it's actually maintaining coverage because otherwise the governor will shoot the hostages.

Politico, Judge green-lights ‘kill list’ lawsuit. Former Al Jazeera Islamabad bureau chief Ahmad Zaidan and freelance journalist Bilal Kareem say they've nearly been killed repeatedly by drone strikes going back years (including before the present administration), leading them to believe they're on a government kill list, and they'd would like to sue the government to stop that. Kareem is a US Citizen, and in a first, a judge is allowing his part of the case to go forward, writing that "His interest in avoiding the erroneous deprivation of his life is uniquely compelling."

Snopes, The Only LGBTQ Newspaper in the White House Briefing Room Can’t Get Their Questions Answered. In which the Washington Blade would like to ask why Trump doesn't sign a proclamation for Pride Month (I mean, we know why, but there's still power in asking), and Sanders has only called on their reporter once, in January.

Bloomberg, Twitter to Face Claims by ‘White Advocate’ Over Banned Accounts.

Brownsville Herald, Cubans seeking asylum in limbo at Hidalgo bridge:
He is one of dozens of Cubans, and now Central Americans, whose journey has been cut short after being denied entry due to local detention centers reportedly being at capacity, at least according to customs officials on the bridge. Now, approximately 50 people spent Thursday night on the bridge, about half of whom were Cuban.

Their plight creates an ironic juxtaposition: Presenting oneself at the bridge and declaring asylum falls within legal parameters, yet they have been lawfully detained amid the Trump administration’s new “zero tolerance” policy. Enacted in April, the policy criminally prosecutes those who cross the border illegally by averting an official port of entry, detaining them until their appearance in federal court as opposed to paroling or immediately deporting them.

Immigrant advocates have theorized that preventing people from immediately applying for asylum at ports of entry could be a strategy to deter people from seeking asylum.
Gosh, it's almost like they don't want people to claim asylum at all. On the one hand, they insist everyone "follow the process" and enter legally, and then when people do just that, they say they're full and won't let them in.

This is a really good point from Benjy Sarlin on the "strategy" behind the present situation where the White House has positions that range from "we're not separating parents and children" to "damn straight we are and we're proud of it" to "we don't want to but the Democrats made us:
This is an actual strategy, but Trump also has a long history of allowing allies to just invent their own version of his presidency for niche audiences. If you just listened to a Pence, you’d think he’s a Russia hawk whose top priority is human rights in North Korea. If you’re inclined to vote Republican already but uncomfortable with Trump’s more extreme positions, you can just tell yourself it’s all an act for voters and the “real” version is Pence/Haley. Or if you’re in his base, just tell yourself it’s the other side putting on the show.

“You can’t con an honest man,” is the phrase I always thought of at rallies in 2016. Few people really believe everything Trump says, but tons of them believe they’re the smart one who knows what’s *really* going on underneath the public statements.

Incidentally, the wackiest *pro Trump* conspiracy theories reflect this dynamic. The Qanon conspiracy, which Roseanne fell for, assumes Trump’s praise for Russia and attacks on Mueller are fake and they’re teaming up on a secret investigation into Dems.
[...]
This cynicism is the biggest advantage Trump has on any number of fronts, based on same experience. “All politicians lie/have conflicts of interest/sic gov on opponents” etc, even “collude with foreign rivals.” Accurately rebutting puts you in position of defending hated pols.
And lastly, this is a very good @nycsouthpaw thread on the IG report. AG Lynch testified that nine days before the election, she discussed with Comey how how a “deep and visceral hatred of Secretary Clinton” by a cadre of senior NY FBI agents “has put us where we are today” with the Weiner laptop. This is a conclusion by DOJ leadership that anti-Clinton bias by FBI officials led to the Comey letter in October 2016. Yet the coverage has been consumed with Strzok and Page's texts, where the IG found no bias in their actions, rather than the bias of these anonymous NY field office officials who caused Comey to take actions that altered the election:
Coverage of the IG report has not focused on this revelation of political bias, indeed “hatred,” by FBI agents affecting the election outcome. Instead it has been preoccupied with Strzok/Page, whose views the IG concluded had not affected the investigation much less the election. These coverage choices mirror the asymmetry Democrats complained of in coverage of the email scandal itself. Much graver wrongdoing on the pro-Trump side is overlooked or given scant notice in favor of hypervigilant coverage of petty misconduct that media know Trump will amplify. This is an important conversation between the Attorney General and the FBI Director. It occurred real time before the election and it concerned a grave, election-altering allegation of misconduct that the IG conspicuously did not resolve. Please give it the attention it deserves!

Strzok and Page are famous names now. We’ve read their texts. We know some of the most intimate details of of their lives. Who are the FBI agents whose “hatred” of one candidate prompted the Comey letter? What’s in their chat history? Will we ever get that part of the story?
posted by zachlipton at 10:09 PM on June 17 [73 favorites]


I need to back off my statement. I don't know a lot about this stuff, and shouldn't have opened my mouth. Mea Culpa.
posted by xammerboy at 10:10 PM on June 17 [3 favorites]


I just got done having a fight on Facebook with a guy whose main argument was that this wasn’t even happening. Like, we gave him ABC, NBC, and NYTimes links, as well as the official CBP photos and he just refused to believe it. Said they were biased news stories and they’re just making it all up. I never really understood the Holocaust deniers, but at least that’s in the past. It’s not actively happening right now. (There were probably Holocaust deniers back then, too, weren’t there? God, people suck.)
posted by Weeping_angel at 10:14 PM on June 17 [18 favorites]


So. Don't mock me for being obsessive. I think the greek tattoo probably says:
[illegible] σκληρά
παιδιά [illegible]
Which would translate badly into something like [...] hard, play [...]. Work hard, play hard maybe?

In any case I doubt it has any sinister meaning. This dude works for ICE; that does not necessarily speak well of his character. But I fear this is gonna get picked up by the right wing noise machine as AMERICA HATING LEFTISTS SLANDER DISABLED MARINE VETERAN. It's true that they'll do something like that no matter what so it's not exactly avoidable. But in any case I've gone about as far as I can deciphering this dude's creepy ink.
posted by Justinian at 10:23 PM on June 17 [12 favorites]


The argument is that this is more or less SOP, and that it is and has been policy of previous admins to separate kids from parents when the kids and parents arrive illegally. What’s different now, and why Nielsen can say on Twitter (what a time to be alive!) that there is no policy of family separation, is that they are now more rigorously defining the definition of illegal arrivals to include a lot more folks seeking asylum.

That seems to work for some consciences. Or enough of them to keep at it for now.
posted by notyou at 10:28 PM on June 17


Who wore it better: Ivanka Trump or detained children?
posted by zachlipton at 10:52 PM on June 17 [20 favorites]


the heretofore etiquette held that former presidents don't criticize later ones
well maybe it's time to let that standard go too


Question: who thinks Trump is going to keep his mouth shut about any succeeding President?

We will not protect the dignity of the office by rote courtesies to a man who cares neither for dignity nor the duties of the office, and in fact seems to relish his own offenses to both.
posted by wildblueyonder at 11:10 PM on June 17 [47 favorites]


I'm guessing that the American oligarchs thought that's what they were doing with Trump, and that things have gotten out of hand, and they still (erroneously) believe they can bring him back in line.

In another thread, I quoted John Kampfner's Guardian review of Volker Ullrich's Hitler: Ascent, 1889-1939: "His dismantling of the fragile democratic norms should have come as no surprise. [He] had always been frank about his intentions. His coalition partners either thought he wasn’t serious, or they could control him."

I'll describe this thought here as I did there: an epitaph for their time, and ours.
posted by adamgreenfield at 12:49 AM on June 18 [33 favorites]


Does anyone here get the sense that Trump has grown into to the job?

He’s certainly getting more efficient at implementing his sick impulses, or Sessions and Miller are getting better at using him. May 8, Trump floats 'closing up the country for a while' over border security (CNN). June 18, Trump has effectively ended asylum in the US by throwing children into internment camps and deporting their parents. ICE is looking for any reason to strip citizenship from naturalized citizens. Seems like he got what he wanted and not a single Republican with any political authority will oppose him.
posted by SakuraK at 1:12 AM on June 18 [9 favorites]


Does anyone here get the sense that Trump has grown into to the job?

Trump is doing more through executive orders, more in foreign policy, more on immigration, where his executive powers are. He's gotten a lot craftier, not defending certain laws, using others as leverage to create new laws. These are essentially new methods of governance. He seems willing to do whatever he wants with the military without congressional approval. He's appointed a ton of federal judges. He even got his crazy tax bill passed, and will likely kill Obamacare through de-funding. He's been effective, and I think he's only getting to be more so.

A lot of what he's accomplished has been through a willingness to do things and use techniques other presidents wouldn't have. He's constantly testing what he's legally capable of doing, and I expect we'll see a lot more of that.
posted by xammerboy at 2:06 AM on June 18 [12 favorites]


The CBS reporter whose tweet showing pictures cages in the McAllen, TX facility was linked earlier (David Begnaud) has a story up now.

This facility still looks like it did in 2014. But in 2014, children weren't being taken from their parents here. Embedded at this link are a five minute video of the reporter describing what he saw inside and answers he was given to his questions about how child separation actually works, and pictures from inside which were provided by the facility.

Inside look at Border Patrol facility in Texas housing hundreds of children
"He said that detentions in the facility lasted between 12 to 36 hours.
...
One teenager told an advocate who visited that she was helping care for a young child she didn't know because the child's aunt was somewhere else in the facility. She said she had to show others in her cell how to change the girl's diaper.
...
More than 1,100 people were inside the large, dark facility that's divided into separate wings for unaccompanied children, adults on their own, and mothers and fathers with children. The cages in each wing open out into common areas to use portable restrooms. The overhead lighting in the warehouse stays on around the clock.

The Border Patrol said close to 200 people inside the facility were minors unaccompanied by a parent. Another 500 were "family units," parents and children. Many adults who crossed the border without legal permission could be charged with illegal entry and placed in jail, away from their children."
posted by OnceUponATime at 2:10 AM on June 18 [12 favorites]


He seems willing to do whatever he wants with the military without congressional approval

This, sadly, puts him in good company with every other president. Obama's request for Congressional approval in Syria was something of an anomaly and, frankly, I think only occurred because he didn't actually want to do it and knew approval would not be forthcoming.
posted by Justinian at 2:25 AM on June 18 [4 favorites]


From the CBS report on the McAllen Children's Concentration Camp, in Texas:
Michelle Brane, director of migrant rights at the Women's Refugee Commission, met with a 16-year-old girl who had been taking care of a young girl for three days. The teen and others in their cage thought the girl was 2 years old.

"She had to teach other kids in the cell to change her diaper," Brane said.
One of the things I find so terrifying is that nobody thought about things like this. Nobody imagined (or cared enough to imagine) that babies need diapers and people to change them. And there must be a hundred other commonplace things of this sort, even before we get to irregular or unexpected things, like colic or earaches or infectious diseases. Children are literally going to die - quickly, through accidents or undiagnosed illnesses; slowly from a lack of care and comfort - because of American malevolence and bigotry.

Buntix quoted this above, but compare the CBS report to this one, about the Susak Children's Concentration Camp during the Holocaust:
"How many children came, and where they were dispatched, could no longer be found out. The children in the children's barracks cried inexorably and were calling their mothers, who were only a few steps away from the children, but the fascist criminals did not let mothers to approach their children. Older children tell us through tears, that they can not calm the little ones, because they are hungry, there are no one to change diapers of the little ones, and they are afraid that everyone will die. These children, who have not yet reached the age of ten, swear to us, "Come on, sister, bring us mothers, bring at least mothers to these little ones. You will see, if you do not bring them their mothers, they will suffocate, by the tears alone."
- Testimony of Jana Koh, the Croatian Red Cross secretary.
And these children too will suffocate from tears alone, and so will hundreds or thousands of others, crying on the floor in the perpetual daytime of mercury vapour lights, without even the comfort of a blanket or touch of an adult hand.
posted by Joe in Australia at 2:54 AM on June 18 [80 favorites]


Question: who thinks Trump is going to keep his mouth shut about any succeeding President?

He won't. At least, when he can still open it.

Shoving hamburgers into his maw as he does, there's a chance he'll keel over from a heart attack or a stroke before his term is up. And in my dreams he'll do so during a speech or a press conference, in full view of cameras recording it all.

I prefer him to get impeached, and justice slamming down on him like a ton of bricks, but the above is an acceptable substitute.
posted by Stoneshop at 3:35 AM on June 18 [17 favorites]


Father James Martin, SJ
Like many, I've resisted using this word but it's time: the deliberate and unnecessary separation of innocent children from their parents is pure evil. It does not come from God or from any genuinely moral impulse. It is wantonly cruel and targets the most vulnerable. 1/
2/ Its use has been cloaked in lies, another clear sign that it does not proceed in any way from God or from a genuinely moral impulse. And the results--misery, anguish, physical suffering, division and despair--are also unmistakable signs that this is an evil.
3/ As St. Paul wrote, "You will know them by their fruits....every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit." (Mt 7:17). That is, the results enable us to clearly recognize evil. As such, we have a moral obligation to name it and fight against it.
4/ Anyone who participates in this kind of wanton cruelty is also guilty of this evil. "I was just following orders" went out at Nuremberg. The decision-makers and all who cooperate in these actions will be judged.
5/ "I was a stranger and you did not welcome me." (Mt 25)

---

Manu Saadia (Trekonomics)
According to the Convention Against Torture, to which the US is a signatory, the US government and its agencies are torturing children.
"Torture means any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in or incidental to lawful sanctions."
posted by chris24 at 3:44 AM on June 18 [98 favorites]


Houston Chronicle: Chief Acevedo and other law enforcement slam Trump's family separation policy
Law enforcement leaders in Houston and elsewhere joined in Sunday on condemning President Donald Trump's 'zero-tolerance' immigration policy, which is leading to the separation of thousands of young children from their parents in recent weeks.

Harris County Sheriff Ed Gonzalez said Sunday that children should not be kept in immigration detention centers and said the current situation highlights Congress' failure to pass comprehensive immigration reform. "Separating families harms children," Gonzalez said. "To me, it's an affront to our American values." [...]

Chris Magnus, police chief in Tucson, Arizona, wrote that the practice raised "troubling questions" for police chiefs who cooperate with immigration enforcement that separates parents from children.
"Is this consistent with the oath you took to serve & protect?," he wrote Saturday afternoon. "Is this humane or moral? Does this make your community safer?"

And Lupe Valdez, the former sheriff of Dallas County who is now running as the Democratic candidate for governor against incumbent Greg Abbott, announced she would be marching in protest with other elected officials outside of a detention center in Tornillo in West Texas.

Chief Acevedo is a good man.

Chief Art Acevedo
American values? Conservative values? Progressive values? Judeo-Christian values? Family values? History & God will be unkind to those who are silent or support this oppressive, inhumane, unGodly policy. God is watching us, we can’t hide from him. WWJD?


@Rottluver425
Replying to @ArtAcevedo
Don't you have a large police department to run? Worry about the citizens of your City and your officers, leave the politics to those who are actually politicians


Chief Art Acevedo
Replying to @Rottluver425
We have 600,000+ immigrants in this city and ensuring they trust their police department is critical to our mission of keeping our city safe. Messages like yours must be what the German Police were told leading up to the Holocaust. Not this chief, not this Nation, not this time!
posted by chris24 at 3:51 AM on June 18 [157 favorites]


Does anyone here get the sense that Trump has grown into to the job? Obviously in the most odious of ways of course, but for the first several months of his presidency Trump flailed and veered all over the place.

It's all gone downhill since they figured out how to work the light switches.
posted by Faint of Butt at 3:55 AM on June 18 [49 favorites]


You know, when law enforcement officials from Texas and Arizona are calling out a policy as inhumane and immoral, I can't help but wonder why all those people who claim to "back the blue" are suddenly complaining about the actions of the police.
posted by Daughter of Time at 4:05 AM on June 18 [63 favorites]


News You May Have Missed has posted this week's roundup, with a focus on ways to help children separated from their families at the border, and stories on: ICE agents trained in interrogation techniques by former CIA (thank you, Metafilter, for that story); Morristown, TN support of families rounded up by ICE; new rules on asylum keeping out victims of domestic and gang violence; Michigan conservatives revising K-12 social studies curriculum to remove references to gay rights, the NAACP, the KKK, climate change, and Roe v. Wade, etc; AP World History curriculum change; Mexican election & foreign interference; U.S. apparently withdrawing from the Human Rights Council; Data Propria (Cambridge Analytica alumni) already working for Trump 2020; Ajit Pai rushes to beat a court date in order to approve Sinclair-Tribune merger; and photosynthesis discoveries.

This is a page I founded which is now run by a team of volunteers (of which I am only one). It would be very helpful if you all could like/comment on our posts, as we find that Facebook's new algorithms are de-emphasizing them.
posted by joannemerriam at 5:12 AM on June 18 [26 favorites]


You know, it somehow amazes me that the Houston Chief of Police says, 'let's not be Nazis' and half of those responses to his tweet are about how he's selling out citizens. Every day I wake up and have a reckoning about where we are now.
posted by angrycat at 5:22 AM on June 18 [63 favorites]


ICE is pretending to be the local police to gain access in NYC.
According to attorneys and advocates, field officers with Immigration and Customs Enforcement have for years been known to misrepresent themselves as members of local law enforcement agencies in an attempt detain immigrants, a practice known internally as “ruses.” As municipal and state officials scale back cooperation with ICE, often in response to the agency’s ever-more aggressive tactics under the Trump administration, agents have been regularly resorting to making home arrests and using deceptions that go way beyond merely identifying as “police.”
posted by schadenfrau at 6:19 AM on June 18 [28 favorites]


The sheer volume of disingenuous bullshit coming out around this family separation policy is truly staggering.

Yes, but that's because they know it hurts them politically. Which means press them on it at every opportunity -- heck, even the normally supine Washington press corps gave Sarah Huckabee Sanders some rare pushback. (Not over her lies, of course, but over the obvious immorality of the program, asking about her empathy, for which no public evidence exists.)
posted by Gelatin at 6:34 AM on June 18 [8 favorites]


Every day I wake up and have a reckoning about where we are now.

Surrounded by people who proclaim themselves good, advocate evil, and are unwilling or unable to see the difference.
Up to our eyeballs in former crypto-fascists who just stopped being crypto.
Under the thumb of a sociopathic cult leader and his legions of followers.

The only way really out of this is truth and reconciliation, but that's never going to happen.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:35 AM on June 18 [8 favorites]


Nice page from The Democracy List that provides a daily recap of protests, actions, news, information, and upcoming protests.

On Friday, there was an immigration checkpoint on I-93 in New Hampshire.
'"I don't know if you're a citizen," the agent tells O'Donnell. "I don't know if you're a terrorist."'

On Sunday, there was a fairly large protest at the ICE center in Elizabeth, NJ. Seven Dem Reps were eventually able to gain access and speak with adults being held there.

We're continuing to beat on Susan Collins' door. We've got her down to "inconsistent with American values" but she won't sign on to the bill. Yet.
posted by anastasiav at 6:36 AM on June 18 [32 favorites]


angrycat: "You know, it somehow amazes me that the Houston Chief of Police says, 'let's not be Nazis' and half of those responses to his tweet are about how he's selling out citizens. Every day I wake up and have a reckoning about where we are now."

That's been the worst part of the last two years: the realization of how much horrible shit my fellow Americans are happy to support. I mean the fact that the orange idiot still has a 40% approval rating just blows my mind.
posted by octothorpe at 6:41 AM on June 18 [42 favorites]


On Friday, there was an immigration checkpoint on I-93 in New Hampshire.
How is this allowed? US citizens are being stopped en masse, without probable cause, and asked for their papers? This is what we've come to?
posted by baltimoretim at 6:45 AM on June 18 [32 favorites]


That's been the worst part of the last two years: the realization of how much horrible shit my fellow Americans are happy to support.

This was my first thought in reaction to the "it can happen here" discussion. There are plenty of people in the country who would applaud unleashing State terror, as the Nazis did in 1933 against Communists and Social Democrats, against "liberals".
posted by thelonius at 6:46 AM on June 18 [19 favorites]


You know, it somehow amazes me that the Houston Chief of Police says, 'let's not be Nazis' and half of those responses to his tweet are about how he's selling out citizens.

Has anyone checked those responses to see where they come from?
posted by ZeusHumms at 6:46 AM on June 18 [12 favorites]


They're vastly underreporting the number of children they're kidnapping. It's at least five times what we've been told.

A senior administration official who asked not to be identified said the Department of Health and Human Services has been taking in about 250 children per day in recent weeks. HHS is the agency that is taking in children when they are separated from their families.

An HHS official added that the agency expects to be taking about 250 kids each day at least for the next two months. If that estimate holds, HHS could be caring for 18,500 more children by the end of August. The HHS official said as of Friday, HHS was already holding 11,500 children, which means the total could hit 30,000 by August.

posted by Rust Moranis at 6:52 AM on June 18 [38 favorites]


There are plenty of people in the country who would applaud unleashing State terror, as the Nazis did in 1933 against Communists and Social Democrats, against "liberals".

As noted previously we are way, way into the poem now. Unchecked they will work their way through everyone.
posted by Artw at 6:53 AM on June 18 [9 favorites]


How is this allowed? US citizens are being stopped en masse, without probable cause, and asked for their papers? This is what we've come to?

It's been this way for years and years. I was stopped by a checkpoint while driving cross country back from California in 2009. This particular injustice and "papers please" bullshit long predates the current administration. I'm in no way saying that we shouldn't be upset and this administration is showing itself to be particularly dangerous and, for lack of a better word, rabid on the subject, but the country let it 'come to' this years ago.

It's just now happening in places other than the southern border to non-brown folks so, maybe, folks will get pissed off at being made to wait hours in traffic to have their constitutional rights impinged upon. I'm not optimistic.
posted by RolandOfEld at 6:54 AM on June 18 [17 favorites]


How is this allowed? US citizens are being stopped en masse, without probable cause, and asked for their papers?

This has been legal for many years.
The Constitution in the 100 Mile Border Zone (ACLU)
Your Rights in the Border Zone (ACLU)
posted by anastasiav at 6:57 AM on June 18 [18 favorites]


How is this allowed? US citizens are being stopped en masse, without probable cause, and asked for their papers? This is what we've come to?

Anywhere within 100 miles of a border is under jurisdiction of the CBP and - suprise! - the coastline is considered a border.
posted by PenDevil at 6:57 AM on June 18 [4 favorites]


The ACLU has a page detailing where the 4th amendment "doesn't necessarily apply" around our borders. Good informative read.
posted by Sophie1 at 6:58 AM on June 18


New York Magazine has published a sobering interview with former Obama deputy national security adviser and foreign-policy speechwriter Ben Rhodes. It ranges widely but revolves mainly around Trump-realted topics, such as Obama's reaction to his election and his post-presidency approach to his successor, the Trump-linked Black Cube dirty ops targeting him, and the long-term international consequences of Trump's election for America.
To me, the more troubling thing, the more painful thing, is an entire approach to governing is just being eviscerated. We spent eight years trying to be good stewards in terms of whether we were right or wrong, trying to do this set of jobs a certain way. You watch the G7 summit — that, to me, is the most difficult thing to watch, because those countries have no idea what the hell is going on. And they don’t care about the reality show. Here, there’s almost a humor to it, but my basic view is that there was going to be a natural reallocation of global influence over the next 50 years with countries like China, India …[...]

It’s gonna happen in four years. That’s what I see happening. To me, that’s what’s most troubling, is that the cost of what Trump is doing is profound, but it’s not apparent day-to-day. So with the news cycle, it’s like, “Oh, he just shook Kim Jong-un’s hand.” No, in fact, what he just did is send a message that by trashing our allies, he’s further accelerating people turning to China and away from us. The consequences won’t become apparent right away.[...]

The policies are recoverable, right? We can care about climate change again. We can work with our allies again. We can advocate for human rights again, and you can go down the list. But the second troubling thing I’ve heard is that, like, Trump is totally recognizable because yeah, we’ve all had a corrupt leader — and I’ve heard this in Southeast Asia and Latin America — the rich liar with the son-in-law is usually who runs the country. [...] But that makes America just like everybody else. And that’s what China’s argument is, right?
This began to sink in with Rhodes in January when he was in Japan for meetings at the time Trump was baiting Kim Jong Un on Twitter. "And these were kind of business-leader types and I thought that all they’d want to talk about was North Korea. All they wanted to talk about was Charlottesville. [...] And what I realized is that that was more important to their calculation[....] Like, is this country not what we thought it was?"
posted by Doktor Zed at 7:04 AM on June 18 [68 favorites]


The HHS official said as of Friday, HHS was already holding 11,500 children, which means the total could hit 30,000 by August

By next August that's over 100,000 imprisoned children, about the same number of people we put in Japanese internment camps. By the winter after next, that's about the total number of live concentration camp inmates in 1944.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:06 AM on June 18 [34 favorites]


Trump on Twitter:
"The people of Germany are turning against their leadership as migration is rocking the already tenuous Berlin coalition. Crime in Germany is way up. Big mistake made all over Europe in allowing millions of people in who have so strongly and violently changed their culture!"
Which comes as somewhat of a surprise to me, a German, since there is no revolution in the air (AfD, the right-wing party holding flat and showing no gains) and the crime rate is at a 30-year-low.

Oh, and yeah, racism. He's not even pretending a little bit anymore, is he?
posted by PontifexPrimus at 7:33 AM on June 18 [86 favorites]


Border Patrol still "very uncomfortable" that everyone is saying "cages": and added that they may be cages but people are not being treated like animals.
posted by TwoStride at 7:37 AM on June 18 [28 favorites]


The Supreme Court dismissed the Wisconsin partisan gerrymandering case (Gill v. Whitford) for lack of standing. No judges dissented, though there are multiple concurrences. In the Maryland partisan gerrymandering case (Benisek), they issued a per curium decision upholding the denial of a preliminary injunction. In other words, they're not going to touch the actual merits of whether partisan gerrymandering is a thing and how courts should deal with it.

They also granted a number of cases for next term, including Apple v. Pepper, the iOS App Store anti-trust case.
posted by zachlipton at 7:38 AM on June 18 [5 favorites]


... and added that they may be cages but people are not being treated like animals.

If it looks like a duck, etc....
posted by Krazor at 7:39 AM on June 18 [3 favorites]


Which comes as somewhat of a surprise to me, a German, since there is no revolution in the air (AfD, the right-wing party holding flat and showing no gains) and the crime rate is at a 30-year-low.

He's addled, but he may be thinking of the Bavarian gov't.
posted by Rock 'em Sock 'em at 7:40 AM on June 18 [1 favorite]




Former Fox News host Bill O'Reilly on Monday said President Trump should "reverse course" on his administration's "zero tolerance" policy that separates families at the U.S.-Mexico border.
posted by anastasiav at 7:59 AM on June 18 [12 favorites]


CNN (video): Scaramucci: Trump needs to change this now

'Former White House communications director Anthony Scaramucci says President Trump needs to put an end to the practice of separating undocumented children from their parents "today."'
posted by chris24 at 8:01 AM on June 18 [12 favorites]


Which comes as somewhat of a surprise to me, a German, since there is no revolution in the air (AfD, the right-wing party holding flat and showing no gains) and the crime rate is at a 30-year-low.

Trump appears to be referring to the dispute between Merkel and (conservative) interior minister Horst Seehofer regarding a relatively technical point of immigration policy: whether asylum seekers who have submitted an application to another EU country should be allowed to pass through Germany or be turned away at the German border. Seehofer wants them turned away, Merkel would let them through for now while seeking an EU-wide solution.

Seehofer does not dispute that crime is down, including crimes committed by immigrants.

A check of a few newspapers suggests the German press is not treating Trump's blathering very kindly.
posted by jedicus at 8:01 AM on June 18 [17 favorites]


Re: Gill v. Whitford - came here to post the same. Damn, damn, damn. We leftward Sconnies will just have to be twice as good, I guess.
posted by eirias at 8:02 AM on June 18 [2 favorites]


Trumps ambassador has also voiced a desire for the German government to be replaced with far right ethnic-nationalists.

There’s another word for that.
posted by Artw at 8:04 AM on June 18 [21 favorites]


Jorge Rivas, Splinter: A Former Japanese Internment Camp Prisoner on the Dire Effects of Putting Kids in Detention
There’s been some national press coverage, but I don’t feel like we are responding with the amount of outrage these actions deserve. Are we being complacent?

When thousands of Japanese Americans were being removed from their classrooms, from their jobs, and their neighborhoods, there was no outcry. No one instituted any kind of protest. And there was no press or organized effort to stand up for the Japanese-Americans because it was war time. We are currently in a war-like situation in that immigrants are seeking safety. And they have been characterized as criminals and rapists.

On one level I think people have the sense that anyone trying to enter our country is a threat. So there is support for Trump’s tightened policies. The broader audience is feeling complacent because they don’t feel identified with the population. I think that’s what happened to us.

My hope is that people will know how important it is to stand up for the injustice that’s happening right now.
posted by ZeusHumms at 8:06 AM on June 18 [26 favorites]


Former White House communications director Anthony Scaramucci says President Trump needs to put an end to the practice of separating undocumented children from their parents "today."'

And this is how they cut off the Left from the debate. Send Mooch out to stake out the rightmost left position.
posted by rhizome at 8:09 AM on June 18 [14 favorites]


Department of Homeland Security (DHS) Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen told a gathering of sheriffs on Monday to ignore press reports of mistreatment of undocumented minors separated from their families at the southwest border.

"It is important to note that these minors are very well taken care of — don’t believe the press," Nielsen said to the National Sheriff's Association while addressing reports of substandard treatment of minors.

"They are very well taken care of -- you know this as many of you have detention facilities of your own," she added.

Kirstjen Nielsen is guilty of ongoing crimes against humanity. She cannot be forgotten if any justice ever comes.
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:13 AM on June 18 [77 favorites]


Gill v. Whitford is a punt, not a full-on denial. They said the district court didn't properly review whether the plaintiffs had standing to sue (which, they said, is based on whether they live in gerrymandered districts) and remanded so it can perform that analysis. Gorsuch and Thomas would have dismissed altogether but couldn't even get Alito to sign on to that garbage.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 8:13 AM on June 18 [9 favorites]


"It is important to note that these minors are very well taken care of — don’t believe the press,"

lugenpresse amirite
posted by entropicamericana at 8:15 AM on June 18 [21 favorites]


Didn't Nielsen just say that family separation was fake news and no children were being separated from their parents?

This is basically like the collusion thing too:

We didn't do it.
We didn't do it, but if we did do it, it would be fine.
We maybe did it, but just a little and we probably didn't mean it.
We maybe did it, and if we did do it, well, you'd do it too.
We totally did it and it was awesome, come at us, bros.
posted by soren_lorensen at 8:17 AM on June 18 [77 favorites]


eirias: "Re: Gill v. Whitford - came here to post the same. Damn, damn, damn. We leftward Sconnies will just have to be twice as good, I guess."

So, the SCOTUS take seems to be that a given person can only be impacted by the way their own district is drawn, so they can't be seeking statewide relief. However, the thought is that this still leaves the door open for *political parties* to make statewide claims, since all districts impact them. This is not yet over.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:19 AM on June 18 [13 favorites]


Democracy Now: Meet the Migrant Child Detention Center Whistleblower Now Speaking Out Against Family Separations

Antar Davidson says he quit after he was forced to tell children who were separated from their mother not to hug one another.

He also describes mandatory meetings which the ($million/year earning) CEO asked employees to contribute from their paychecks to (ostensibly) pay for the children's health care.

It's fractal evil.
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:24 AM on June 18 [58 favorites]


Donald Trump Jr. Likes Tweet Suggesting Children Separated from Parents at Border are Crisis Actors

Presented without comment.

Oh wait, here's a comment: I hope he dies in prison.
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:27 AM on June 18 [141 favorites]


Department of Homeland Security (DHS) Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen told a gathering of sheriffs on Monday to ignore press reports of mistreatment of undocumented minors separated from their families at the southwest border.

"It is important to note that these minors are very well taken care of — don’t believe the press," Nielsen said to the National Sheriff's Association while addressing reports of substandard treatment of minors.


The obvious simple response to this is "how well would your children have to be taken care of for you to be okay with someone else making the decision to take them away from you for three weeks?"
posted by phearlez at 8:34 AM on June 18 [34 favorites]


So, I just got off the phone with Sentient Slime in a Badly Fitting Human Suit sometimes Called Ted Cruz. Well, his office, the holes in the phone are hard for slime to manage. I basically said that while I didn't expect SSiBFHS to actually have any human compassion, but I would like him to think about how he'd feel if ICE showed up and took all his soup cans, and then tried to separate him from his egg sacks. (Which made the staffer snort, although he tried to cover it quickly.)

I finished by saying that this policy, not law, was inhuman, unamerican, unchristian, immoral and bad. And that people who supported it are bad people who do bad things and should feel bad. I said that ICE needed to be abolished, 45 needed to be impeached for the good of all humanity, and if Ted wanted to continue his ruse as a human being, he needed to start acting like one.

Also, where are the girls? Seriously. Where are the girls? I mentioned that SlimeTed had 2 beautiful little girls, and how would he feel knowing they were unsupervised, in the care of people who had not been cleared by the viper system to be near children, and that breastfeeding babies were being taken away from their mothers with no plan in place to keep those children alive, or allow the mothers to pump so they can continue breastfeeding if/when they ever see their children again.

I used the words Nazi. I said this policy was a slippery slope towards death camps, and either Ted needed to step up and start fixing the shit his party broke, or he should pack his bag and get the fuck out so someone else could be a real Senator for the real population of Texas, which, as it turns out, is a lot more brown and Spanish speaking than pseudo Hispanic Cruz wants to believe.

Next up, John Cornyn...that evil fucking "concerned" bastard.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 8:35 AM on June 18 [146 favorites]


Yeah, at this point, every single Republican who says this policy is "fine, it's fine, don't worry", should have to volunteer one of their children or grandchildren to go to the camps and babysit.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 8:37 AM on June 18 [27 favorites]


So, the SCOTUS take seems to be that a given person can only be impacted by the way their own district is drawn, so they can't be seeking statewide relief. However, the thought is that this still leaves the door open for *political parties* to make statewide claims, since all districts impact them. This is not yet over.

I think (having skimmed the opinion) the opinion of the court is that a person can seek statewide relief, even for a personal harm to the way a district is drawn, but showing statewide harm isn't something an individual can do, because they're only resident in one district, viz.:
The plaintiffs’ mistaken insistence that the claims in Baker and Reynolds were “statewide in nature” rests on a failure to distinguish injury from remedy. In those malapportionment cases, the only way to vindicate an individual plaintiff’s right to an equally weighted vote was through a wholesale “restructuring of the geographical distribution of seats in a state legislature.” Here, the plaintiffs’ claimsturn on allegations that their votes have been diluted. Because that harm arises from the particular composition of the voter’s own district, remedying the harm does not necessarily require restructuring all of the State’s legislative districts. It requires revising only such districts as are necessary to reshape the voter’s district. This fits the rule that a “remedy must of course be limited to the inadequacy thatproduced the injury in fact that the plaintiff has established.”
If it turns out that changes solely to the voter's district are insufficient to redress the harm, then they can pursue a statewide remedy. But (the court says here) the harm being alleged in this case isn't about their personal districts, it's about overall state dilution of Democratic votes -- which the Democratic Party might be able to bring, but that individual voters (the court says) cannot.

Kagan's concurrence is basically 'HEY DID YOU CONSIDER PURSUING A CASE THIS WAY???' with giant flaming letters written a mile high pointing to arguments the court would be more receptive to, so this is very much not over as an issue --
I also write separately because I think the plaintiffs may have wanted to do more than present a vote dilution theory. Partisan gerrymandering no doubt burdens individual votes, but it also causes other harms. And at some points in this litigation, the plaintiffs complained of a different injury—an infringement of their First Amendment right of association. The Court rightly does not address that alternative argument: The plaintiffs did not advance it with sufficient clarity or concreteness to makeit a real part of the case. But because on remand they may well develop the associational theory, I address the standing requirement that would then apply.
posted by cjelli at 8:40 AM on June 18 [18 favorites]


When you traumatically separate kids from parents, it wouldn't matter if they went to a luxury hotel and ate off solid-gold plates, you have already hurt them. They cannot, by definition, be "well taken care of," because they are imprisoned without their parents.

The shitty facilities and neglect are one, very upsetting, part, but they are not the whole of the evil being perpetrated here.
posted by emjaybee at 8:42 AM on June 18 [93 favorites]


Chauncey DeVega, Salon: Michael Eric Dyson: Donald Trump is “what black people have warned America about”
Sociologist and best-selling author says Trump is no “aberration from whiteness” but its ultimate fulfillment.
When you think about this moment in America, with President Donald Trump, did you ever think you would see such a thing transpire?

Not in such naked intensity, that a man of such manifest incompetence and Herculean ignorance would be at the helm of the ship of state. It’s pretty depressing. It’s pretty remarkable. But given the kind of person I am and the kind of people from whom I hail, I am forced to think about the consequences of all this that could be productive in an ironic way.

One of them is that people should understand that in many ways Donald Trump is the manifestation of what black people have warned America about in regard to whiteness for some 300 years. This is what racism looks like, this is how it happens, this is what it does to you. It’s incoherent often, it’s narcissistic, it’s self-preoccupied, it’s irrational, it comes at you in such gusts and waves of hostility that it’s hard to manage. It knocks you off-kilter, and you try to stand back off to fight it. This is what a lot of America is feeling in the aftermath of Donald Trump’s presidency. He’s not an aberration from whiteness, so to speak. He’s an extension of the logic of what that is, at its base.

That’s one of the good things. And then the second thing is to remind ourselves that this is, by far, not the worst thing to ever happen in America. It is pretty bad but when you look back at history, Civil War, enslavement, Jim Crow and a host of ills -- as bad as Donald Trump is, it isn't the worst thing that happened. So let’s put the brakes on and figure out how to handle him and move beyond him in the future and heal the country.
posted by ZeusHumms at 8:42 AM on June 18 [72 favorites]


Oh, wow, SecretAgentSockpuppet, I just got off the phone after politely and blandly asking Cruz and Cornyn to support S.3036 and stop separating families at the border. I like your approach much better.
posted by Tuba Toothpaste at 8:43 AM on June 18 [19 favorites]


how he'd feel if ICE showed up and took all his soup cans, and then tried to separate him from his egg sacks

Cruz's father entered the US legally in 1957 to attend University in Texas and then obtained political asylum in the U.S when his student visa expired.

Never let Cruz forget for one moment that he is a US Senator because the US granted political asylum to his father - the very same asylum that Cruz would now reject for others who need it. He is the literal product of people who took advantage of their right of freedom of movement between states. For him to do anything except loudly support the rights of immigrants to obtain asylum in this country is hypocritical and horrific.

Not that he cares, of course.
posted by anastasiav at 8:45 AM on June 18 [141 favorites]


I just got banned from the Georgia Lt. Gov.'s Facebook page for stating perfectly reasonable opinions in the comments. As far as I can tell, a federal court ruled in Davison v Loudoun Co that politicians can't ban constituents from their official Facebook pages. I didn't know what else to do, so I contacted the local media. This asshole, besides just being an asshole Nazi enabler and pro-NRA/anti-Delta, is running for governor against the awesome Stacey Abrams.
posted by hydropsyche at 8:47 AM on June 18 [52 favorites]


Michael Eric Dyson was on NPR yesterday and he was really, really good. Amazingly articulate speaker, so much so that I may have missed some holes in his arguments, but I don't think so.
posted by rhizome at 8:48 AM on June 18 [1 favorite]


When you traumatically separate kids from parents, it wouldn't matter if they went to a luxury hotel and ate off solid-gold plates, you have already hurt them. They cannot, by definition, be "well taken care of," because they are imprisoned without their parents.

Or to put it in a historically resonant way, separated but treated humanely is inherently inhumane.
posted by martin q blank at 8:50 AM on June 18 [14 favorites]


hyrdropsyche, you might also contact the Georgia ACLU. The Maryland ACLU sued Hogan for banning users and deleting comments on Facebook.
posted by amarynth at 8:54 AM on June 18 [16 favorites]


cjelli: "Kagan's concurrence is basically 'HEY DID YOU CONSIDER PURSUING A CASE THIS WAY???' with giant flaming letters written a mile high pointing to arguments the court would be more receptive to, so this is very much not over as an issue"

Agreed. See also this Stephen Wolf analysis, and reminder that there is a North Carolina gerrymandering case due to be heard next term, which I *think* the NC Dem party is a party to.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:56 AM on June 18 [7 favorites]


Zero tolerance is the new intolerance.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 8:57 AM on June 18 [1 favorite]


This asshole, besides just being an asshole Nazi enabler and pro-NRA/anti-Delta, is running for governor against the awesome Stacey Abrams.

NB: Cagle still has a runoff to win in order to be the GOP nominee. Of course, his opponent is arguably even worse.
posted by Chrysostom at 8:58 AM on June 18


Head of San Diego Border Patrol: "Some of these kids are hardened adults"

That is a quote.
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:01 AM on June 18 [48 favorites]


Crimes against humanity keep being brought up. Would there be any legal way, perhaps after this administration is gone, to actually follow through on that and actually hold people accountable? Like, send people to the Hague for trial level of accountable? Or are we not at that level or is that not something that there are legal mechanisms for?

Following through on accountability might send an important message to future administrations...though, I can't tell if it will be received as "Ok, won't go there" so much as "Dirty Democrats sent good border cops to rot in European prisons!" Though, even if it's the latter, maybe it would be better to establish that we won't put with this sort of thing and that people will actually be held accountable.
posted by delicious-luncheon at 9:02 AM on June 18 [2 favorites]


Twitter thread showing how the NYT cancel your subscriptions is once again "catapulting the propaganda" by astroturfing a member of the executive board of the Kenosha County, Wisconsin GOP into a "well-educated suburban mom" and "small business owner".
posted by tonycpsu at 9:10 AM on June 18 [16 favorites]


New Yorker: The Government has no plan for reuniting the immigrant families it is tearing apart

The federal departments involved in dealing with separated families have institutional agendas that diverge. Immigration and Customs Enforcement—the agency at the D.H.S. that handles immigrant parents—is designed to deport people as rapidly as it can, while O.R.R.—the office within the Department of Health and Human Services (H.H.S.) that assumes custody of the kids—is designed to release children to sponsor or foster families in the U.S. Lately, O.R.R. has been moving more slowly than usual, which has resulted in parents getting deported before their children’s cases are resolved. There’s next to no coördination between D.H.S. and H.H.S.
posted by anastasiav at 9:14 AM on June 18 [40 favorites]


Crimes against humanity keep being brought up. Would there be any legal way, perhaps after this administration is gone, to actually follow through on that and actually hold people accountable? Like, send people to the Hague for trial level of accountable? Or are we not at that level or is that not something that there are legal mechanisms for?

You would have to ratify the Rome Statute and that would require 2/3 of the Senate of which the Republicans would not only balk at but probably call for the head of the Democratic president responsible for submitting that ratification to the Senate.

In fact, we're so afraid of the ICC that US law requires us to invade The Netherlands in order to free any US service members that might be held by the ICC.
posted by Definitely Not Sean Spicer at 9:15 AM on June 18 [6 favorites]


@nbcnews
BREAKING: AG Sessions on Trump admin. policy of separating migrant families at US border: "If we build a wall, we pass some legislation, we close some loopholes, we won’t face these terrible choices."

Wants to make it clear that this is a hostage situation and the kidnapping will continue until democrats pay the ransom.

(nb. the kidnappings will continue even if democrats pay the ransom)
posted by Artw at 9:19 AM on June 18 [95 favorites]


About those Trump tweets at targeting Merkel... I'm pretty confused about whether there's really some kind of crisis or not. I came across this Wall Street Journal article...

By Bojan Pancevski, WSJ (June 13th) Immigration Standoff Shakes Merkel’s Fragile Government
At issue is one measure in a 63-point action plan by Interior Minister Horst Seehofer —one that would instruct border police to turn back migrants found to have applied for asylum in other countries of the European Union’s border-free area.

After Ms. Merkel opposed the measure, Mr. Seehofer, in a rare revolt by a minister against the head of the German government, on Tuesday canceled the planned presentation of his plan, declaring the measure integral to any attempt at bringing illegal immigration under control.

There appeared to be few avenues left on Wednesday for Mr. Seehofer other than to compromise or resign—an unprecedented break in the conservative movement that would leave the government without a parliamentary majority.
And then this follow up from today...

Bojan Pancevski, WSJ (June 18th): "Merkel’s Government Avoids Collapse Over Immigration Battle, at Least for Now"
BERLIN—German Chancellor Angela Merkel secured a two-week reprieve in her confrontation with her coalition partner on Monday, averting at least for now a collapse of her government over immigration.

Ms. Merkel clashed with longstanding ally Horst Seehofer, interior minister and chairman of the Bavarian sister party to her conservative bloc, last week after he threatened to go ahead with a plan she vetoed to start turning back some migrants at the German border.
...
Mr. Seehofer’s and Ms. Merkel’s parties have been jointly contesting elections for decades, but the CSU has grown increasingly impatient with her refugee agenda. Polls show rising support for the anti-immigration Alternative for Germany could cost the CSU its absolute majority in Bavaria at a regional election in October.
...
Bavaria has been Germany’s frontline state in the migration crisis, with the biggest influx coming from neighboring Austria. A Civey poll found on Monday that 71% of voters in Bavaria would endorse a breakdown of the coalition if the CSU fails to implement its demands."
So is there is a real risk of the coalition breaking down over this? Ugh. Being nervous about other countries' politics is even worse than being nervous about my own. I'm even more helpless. I don't think I'm allowed to write postcards to voters in Bavaria.
posted by OnceUponATime at 9:24 AM on June 18 [1 favorite]


Masha Gessen on the Trump administration's new attempt to revoke the status of naturalized citizens.

The green card application asks "have you ever committed a crime?", and if you are discovered to have lied about that (as in, you slept with someone of the same sex in a country where that is illegal), your citizenship could be revoked.

I really really hate these people.
posted by suelac at 9:32 AM on June 18 [63 favorites]




Manchin caves!
posted by Artw at 9:35 AM on June 18 [67 favorites]


Note that in the United States, basically everybody has committed a crime they were not arrested for. Anybody who answered "no" to that question could have their citizenship revoked if the administration feels like it.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:37 AM on June 18 [38 favorites]


@ddale8: "Trump says he's directing the government to create a "Space Force" as a sixth branch of the Armed Forces."

"We have the Air Force and we're going to have the Space Force. Separate but equal."

(Yes, he said "separate but equal.")"
posted by entropicamericana at 9:37 AM on June 18 [44 favorites]


As everyone here is painfully aware, we're going deeper and deeper into the twilight zone every day, particularly with the latest scandal about family separation. Horrible stories keep piling up and even though Godwin himself thinks his namesake law's comparison is probably now apt, it's hard to find a bedrock motivation in the quicksand of government-by-twitter. Is it the banality of profoundly incompetent evil or maybe our historical imagination doesn't go back far enough? I can't make it escape my attention that separating families was an extremely common practice among slavers in the antebellum past. I know how hard many people have fought over generations to maintain the institutions of that antebellum past, if not de jure then de facto. We're a few clicks of the dial away from recapitulating Germany's dark past but also our own. Within the border zone, ICE has a lot of the same ability to act unchecked as did the gestapo and the bloodhound posses of the Fugitive Slave Act. Someone has to harvest the crops, after all, if migrant labor isn't allowed. We're living one of those parts of history whose outcome you peek on wikipedia about when you get to it in the chronology.
posted by feloniousmonk at 9:38 AM on June 18 [15 favorites]


Note that in the United States, basically everybody has committed a crime they were not arrested for. Anybody who answered "no" to that question could have their citizenship revoked if the administration feels like it.

This is the exact same thought that came to my mind.
posted by Definitely Not Sean Spicer at 9:41 AM on June 18 [8 favorites]


like others above, prompted to end decades lurking by funding shortfall, against the background of the value this community has represented over those years, particularly the ongoing thread of endless dumb doom.

thanks to you all for being here doing this.
posted by 20 year lurk at 9:42 AM on June 18 [59 favorites]


We need a prominent Democratic leader to declare what is obvious. If the wall goes up, in a few years, when the administration changes, we will cheerfully go full free Berlin and tear apart the wall.

I'll be there. I'll pay for an airplane ticket and bring along my wife and son and we will happily smash it to pieces.
posted by dances_with_sneetches at 9:46 AM on June 18 [21 favorites]


Oh, good - "space force." I honestly expect him to announce that the outer space treaty is up for renegotiation as well. "Outer space treaty is a BAD DEAL and BAD FOR AMERICANS! We pay 90% of the cost and see NO BENEFITS!"
posted by MysticMCJ at 9:49 AM on June 18 [12 favorites]


Re the SC case: even if they only wanted to change the district they reside in, that HAS to change at least one other district. So punting on that front after the previous debacle of "it's too complicated to draw maps" makes it seems like a decision not based on the reality of districting?
posted by Slackermagee at 9:52 AM on June 18 [2 favorites]


Manchin caves!


So now those GOP a-holes twittering about this is "not who we are" while doing nothing can step up and actually do something.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:52 AM on June 18 [6 favorites]


This ad for Wisconsin GOP Senate candidate Leah Vukmir sums the era up well

spoiler: she really wants to shoot one of us
posted by OverlappingElvis at 9:53 AM on June 18 [12 favorites]


Poffin boffin - I just submitted a new venting thread. Hopefully it will be up shortly.
posted by Sophie1 at 10:01 AM on June 18 [3 favorites]


@ddale8: "Trump says he's directing the government to create a "Space Force" as a sixth branch of the Armed Forces."

Oy vey.

“To permit irresponsible authority is to sow disaster; to hold a man responsible for anything he does not control is to behave with blind idiocy.”
― Robert A. Heinlein, Starship Troopers [the book, not the movie]
posted by zarq at 10:08 AM on June 18 [4 favorites]


This ad for Wisconsin GOP Senate candidate Leah Vukmir sums the era up well

"Standing on principle takes guts."


Comments are disabled for this video.
posted by NorthernLite at 10:08 AM on June 18 [69 favorites]


I just left voice mail for my two Goofus & Gallant senators, thanking the latter for supporting the Keep Families Together Act S.3036 (and asking him to hold fast in the face of Jeff Sessions's extortionate speech) and cajoling the former for remaining silent on the issue, which is tantamount to backing the Trump Administration child-snatching policy.

For those interested in following up with their senators, the Capitol Hill switchboard number is (202) 224-3121, and Faxzero offers a free fax service to senators.
posted by Doktor Zed at 10:12 AM on June 18 [5 favorites]


Here's the thanks Chuck Schumer got for his effusive praise of the China trade war a few days ago. The icing on the cake is that neither party knows the difference between a hat and a bovine.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 10:13 AM on June 18 [3 favorites]


Doktor Zed, thanks for the fax link. My Senators generally let their voicemail boxes fill up so you can't even leave them a message by calling their offices!
posted by rikschell at 10:24 AM on June 18


So now those GOP a-holes twittering about this is "not who we are" while doing nothing can step up and actually do something.

It does let Dems do this...

@SenFeinstein
UPDATE: The entire Democratic caucus supports our bill to bar children from being taken from their parents at the border. I’ve heard countless Republicans say that they oppose children being taken from their parents. If that’s true, they should support our bill NOW!

Honestly I didn't think they had the weight to get Manchin on board, god knows what they offered him, maybe they'll get some official Rs on board as well now?
posted by Artw at 10:27 AM on June 18 [46 favorites]


Manchin caves!

See how any Democrat, even a Blue Dog, is better than any Republican? I've been very proud of Dianne Feinstein lately - she's been really stepping up, and I think it's because we, her constituents, have been pushing her to the left. (And because she's not a terrible person who wants to see little kids in concentration camps.)

It's really easier than ever, with social media and ResistBot and smart phones, to communicate with our various elected representatives. Whether this is "good" or "bad" depends on the caliber of the constituents - it amplifies our progressive voices, but, alas, also those of the deplorables. Again, why Democrats are better for us - they are more likely to listen to us and not the people who really do like seeing children be brutalized.

ZeusHumms, thank you for the Chauncey DeVega link. Another good and relevant DeVega article at Salon is From 9/11 to 11/9: How The War on Terror Helped Donald Trump Win. I don't really like Salon all that much (and haaaaate their janky website) but DeVega has written some very perceptive articles on our current situation.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 10:27 AM on June 18 [39 favorites]


Trump says he's directing the government to create a "Space Force" as a sixth branch of the Armed Forces

I don't think he can direct that. The United States Air Force was established by the National Security Act of 1947, so I assume we'd need an act of Congress to set up another branch. And we already have the Air Force Space Command.
posted by kirkaracha at 10:30 AM on June 18 [4 favorites]


Honestly I didn't think they had the weight to get Manchin on board, god knows what they offered him, maybe they'll get some official Rs on board as well now?

Maybe... maybe he felt the policy is awful and does awful things?
posted by Justinian at 10:32 AM on June 18 [10 favorites]


imagine an overton window shoved so far the right that you think speaking up against locking children in cages is praiseworthy instead of THE BAREST FUCKING MINIMUM OF STANDARDS
posted by entropicamericana at 10:33 AM on June 18 [74 favorites]


Rosie M. Banks: "See how any Democrat, even a Blue Dog, is better than any Republican?"

Because he "caved" to not defending children being put in cages? This doesn't seem like a moment to laud Manchin.
posted by TypographicalError at 10:33 AM on June 18 [10 favorites]


Space Force? I wonder how that would affect our military budget? Hmm....
posted by parm=serial at 10:34 AM on June 18 [4 favorites]


This doesn't seem like a moment to laud Manchin.
It IS a moment to laud that he is a Democrat and not a Republican.
posted by W Grant at 10:35 AM on June 18 [20 favorites]


I don't think that was lauding, it was pointing out that pretty much any Democrat beats pretty much any Republican as an officeholder. A point that has been disputed here in the past.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:35 AM on June 18 [61 favorites]


I wonder how that would affect our military budget? Hmm....

If you strip money from NASA that they spend on things like climate change research, you can keep it cost neutral!
posted by Candleman at 10:37 AM on June 18 [6 favorites]


A point that has been disputed here in the past.

Indeed. And perhaps one that we can avoid disputing again for the sake of it, I hope.
posted by lazaruslong at 10:37 AM on June 18 [9 favorites]


Maybe... maybe he felt the policy is awful and does awful things?

Nah. Dude is a racist MAGA hat, or at best gutlessly imitates one to secure MAGA votes. He was put under pressure of some kind and caved, or he was bought out in some way. If we suddenly see a bunch of support for the wall from Dem higher ups we’ll know which.
posted by Artw at 10:40 AM on June 18 [4 favorites]


@JebBush:
Children shouldn’t be used as a negotiating tool. @realDonaldTrump should end this heartless policy and Congress should get an immigration deal done that provides for asylum reform, border security and a path to citizenship for Dreamers.
posted by chris24 at 10:45 AM on June 18 [41 favorites]


Behind the paywall, but two ratings moves from Cook:

KY-06 (Barr): Lean R => Toss-up
VA-10 (Comstock): Toss-up => Lean D
posted by Chrysostom at 10:48 AM on June 18 [20 favorites]


I have called and emailed and donated and am going to a protest this weekend but it doesn't feel like enough. I feel awful sitting at work and filling out spreadsheets while children are ripped from their parents arms. I don't know what else I can do but it doesn't feel enough.
posted by hapaxes.legomenon at 10:49 AM on June 18 [14 favorites]


Richard Painter released his first ad in his campaign for the MN-DFL Senate nomination. As we say here in Minnesota, that sure is something.
posted by nathan_teske at 10:52 AM on June 18 [6 favorites]


New Quinnipiac poll on child concentration camp favorability, with slightly different results than yesterday's Ipsos poll.

Overall US disapproval: 66% (compared to 56% for Ipsos)
Republican voter approve/disapprove: 55/35 (compared to 46/32 in Ipsos)

A face-value interpretation is that more exposure and coverage of the crisis decreased overall support but increased Republican support. They like it. It's who they are.
posted by Rust Moranis at 10:52 AM on June 18 [64 favorites]


Family separation could turn into Trump's Katrina -- the policy or action that allows the wobbly, low interest voter and the Obama 2012/Trump 2016 voter to back away from Trumpism without having to reckon too much with their complicity (and while it galvanizes the opposition).
posted by notyou at 10:54 AM on June 18 [11 favorites]


Ugh, I've had to stop following Trump's approval numbers for my own mental wellbeing... and then Chris Hayes retweets a link to the gallup numbers showing Trump's approval at his highest since the inauguration annnnd I'm super depressed again. There is no escaping it. We're really a terrible people.
posted by Justinian at 10:55 AM on June 18 [20 favorites]


@JebBush:
Children shouldn’t be used as a negotiating tool. @realDonaldTrump should end this heartless policy and Congress should get an immigration deal done that provides for asylum reform, border security and a path to citizenship for Dreamers.


On the one hand, it's good to see Jeb! coming out against the Trump administration's policy; on the other hand, it's frustrating to see Jeb! -- along with so many other Republicans -- frame this as a exhortation to compromise, which accepts the use of children as a negotiating tool.

Right? 'Children shouldn't be a negotiating tool! That said, we should negotiate a deal between the administration that is enacting this policy and the Democrats who want a path to citizenship for Dreamers.'

If children shouldn't be a negotiating tool, surely that's a reason to call for a narrowly-tailored bill that would protect children, and then proceed on to discuss other others.

This is -- bluntly -- on Ryan and McConnell's hands. They could support a quick DACA fix, or a quick end to this abhorrent separation policy, and they'd bring along a lot of Republican votes. But they aren't.
posted by cjelli at 10:56 AM on June 18 [27 favorites]


[A few things removed. I know shit's sort of spiking in crazy even by current standards but if you folks can please dial back the riffing and the spit-takes a little to help this thread not be an omni-timesuck today that would be really helpful.]
posted by cortex (staff) at 10:56 AM on June 18 [10 favorites]




How to sleep at night when families are being separated at the border (Alexandra Petri, WaPo)
The trick is forgetting they are children.

If you remember that they are children, you will not be able to go on with any of this. If you remember when you were a child, and frightened, and everything seemed impossibly big and loud and sharp and hard except a certain pair of familiar arms, this will have to stop.
posted by Is It Over Yet? at 10:59 AM on June 18 [94 favorites]


This twitter thread about gaming turns out to be incredibly relevant to the family separation mess. Starts with the ordinary "back when I played D&D," but then... wow.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 11:03 AM on June 18 [67 favorites]


For those not in the know: Massachusetts has a history of electing moderate Republican governors, to balance the always-all-Dem legislature.
posted by Melismata at 11:03 AM on June 18


scaryblackdeath: " Jayapal put up an interesting suggestion: the White House has disconnected their direct line for the public, but you can always call the Trump Hotel to complain about this policy."

Finally a benefit to free international calling in staff residence.

Rust Moranis: "By next August that's over 100,000 imprisoned children, about the same number of people we put in Japanese internment camps. By the winter after next, that's about the total number of live concentration camp inmates in 1944."

I imagine the policy will be effective in reducing asylum seekers presenting at the US border before those sorts of numbers are realized.
posted by Mitheral at 11:15 AM on June 18 [2 favorites]


Mitheral: I imagine the policy will be effective in reducing asylum seekers presenting at the US border before those sorts of numbers are realized.

That's certainly possible, but some people in the administration are going to see those numbers as a goal, and are going to ramp up deportation and citizenship-removal so as to reach it.

Call your reps and send postcards to voters! We, collectively, have got this.
posted by InTheYear2017 at 11:31 AM on June 18 [6 favorites]


Josh Marshall, TPM Editorial: Family Separation, Evil Via Policy and The Internal Contradictions of Trumpism
There’s also the matter of channel conflict. Channel separation is a bedrock principle of marketing. You sell the same product to different people at different prices – price discrimination. You sell the same product to different people using different pitches. It all works so long as the channels remain largely separate. Since Trump is more than anything a marketing man the framework of channel conflict is an appropriate way to explain what is happening.

For base Trumpists: family separation for the bad people is simply awesome.

For other pro-Trump Republicans: evil against children may not be okay, but abusing Democrats works. So for them, no defense of family separation as such, but stick it on the Democrats. Blaming the opponents of your policy for policy is perverse, nasty and thus awesome.

For more Middle of the Road Voters: It’s simply not happening. There is no family separation policy. It’s literally not happening at all or if it is happening it’s being forced on us and families were separated under Obama too.
So we have mixed messaging going on. Maybe this is worth a Congressperson's time to call out.
posted by ZeusHumms at 11:42 AM on June 18 [31 favorites]


A face-value interpretation is that more exposure and coverage of the crisis decreased overall support but increased Republican support. They like it. It's who they are.

This is maybe grasping at straws, but the way the question was worded kinda softballs the child torture angle.
25. As you may know, some families seeking asylum from their home country cross the U.S. border illegally and then request asylum. In an attempt to discourage this, the Trump administration has been prosecuting the parents immediately, which means separating parents from their children. Do you support or oppose this policy?
As you may know, these monsters only care about Republican approval, so maybe next time ask the question honestly.
posted by schadenfrau at 11:42 AM on June 18 [5 favorites]


"which means" says that one must follow the other, but this is not true; it is a policy which is changeable (without legislation). "and" would, at minimum, be a much more honest representation, not even considering how leading the question was in the first place.
posted by Bovine Love at 11:49 AM on June 18 [2 favorites]


Of all the distractions to try and draw attention away from the child concentration camps, announcing a space military seems particularly weak and silly.
posted by lazugod at 11:55 AM on June 18 [17 favorites]


This twitter thread about gaming turns out to be incredibly relevant to the family separation mess. Starts with the ordinary "back when I played D&D," but then... wow.

This deserves to get wider distribution.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 12:02 PM on June 18 [20 favorites]


ICE Statement on the maybe-nazi tattoo

Aparently the iron cross is a “titan 2” platoon symbol (not seeing anything for google on that, no idea of it’s an iron cross) and the Greek is the “Spartan creed”.

I can still tell the guy is a Nazi, mind, on account of how he joined ICE.
posted by Artw at 12:09 PM on June 18 [49 favorites]


@MichaelCBender: Pictures of President Trump and Kim Jong Un in the West Wing of the White House. A few weeks ago, these frames surrounded pics of Trump with Emmanuel Macron, president of France, one of America’s closest allies.

@DavidNakamura: Side note: In Jan. 2017, I took a picture of these frames sitting empty on Obama's last night. Trump has changed the frames from black to gold. Here's what they used to look like

Meeting with awful people is part of the job. Creating a glory wall of your fun times together really is not.
posted by zachlipton at 12:10 PM on June 18 [18 favorites]


The "Space Force" was first mentioned in June of last year (I could have sworn it was more recent -- my personal time distortion runs in both directions, I guess). From that point in time, here's a valuable Alexandra Erin thread (recently re-tweeted by her) about its significance as a concept, how it fits with so-called Star Wars missile defense and similar military-competitiveness concerns.

People are treating this like his typical nonsense but it's actually his deeply scary nonsense.
posted by InTheYear2017 at 12:12 PM on June 18 [7 favorites]


Do you think he knows about the Outer Space Treaty? Do you think he cares?
posted by Weeping_angel at 12:19 PM on June 18 [3 favorites]


Forbes, Dan Alexander, Lies, China And Putin: Solving The Mystery Of Wilbur Ross' Missing Fortune
For most of last year, Ross served as secretary of commerce while maintaining stakes in companies co-owned by the Chinese government, a shipping firm tied to Vladimir Putin’s inner circle, a Cypriot bank reportedly caught up in the Robert Mueller investigation and a huge player in an industry Ross is now investigating. It’s hard to imagine a more radioactive portfolio for a cabinet member.


To this day, Ross’ family apparently continues to have an interest in these toxic holdings. Rather than dump them all, the commerce secretary sold some of his interests to Goldman Sachs—and, according to Ross himself, put others in a trust for his family members. He continued to deal with China, Russia and others while evidently knowing that his family’s interests were tied to those countries.

In addition, five days before reports surfaced last fall that Ross was connected to cronies of Vladimir Putin through a shipping firm called Navigator Holdings, the secretary of commerce, who likely knew about the reporting, shorted stock in the Kremlin-linked company, positioning himself to make money on the investment when share prices dropped.

Absurdly, maintaining all those conflicts of interest appears to be entirely legal—a reflection of ethics laws woefully unprepared for governing tycoons like Donald Trump and Wilbur Ross.

Ross appears to have broken one law, however: submitting a sworn statement to federal officials in November saying he divested of everything he had promised he would—even though he still held more than $10 million worth of stock in financial firm Invesco, his former employer. He also continued to hold a short position in a bank called Sun Bancorp, a company he had promised to divest. The next month, Ross got rid of interests in both.
Or as Mike McIntire, the Times investigative reporter who broke the Navigator Holdings story put it: "Days after I sought comment from Wilbur Ross about his investment in a Kremlin-linked shipping firm, he shorted stock in the company, then sold it after my story with @sashachavkin came out"

In case you're wondering how to piss off Forbes, it's playing games like this:
Wilbur Ross is not known for telling the truth. On a Sunday afternoon last fall, just back from a trip to Asia, Ross called Forbes to lie about his personal fortune. Forbes had listed the commerce secretary on its billionaires rankings for years, but his financial disclosure report revealed less than $700 million in assets. When pressed about the discrepancy, Ross calmly cited more than $2 billion in undisclosed assets, saying he had shifted a chunk of his fortune to a trust for his family.

Those billions apparently did not exist, but when six senators demanded an investigation, Ross insisted his statements contained a kernel of truth. “At the time of my conversation with the reporter, I was in the process of creating a trust as a mechanism to divest my assets in order to comply with my ethics agreement.” But Ross’ ethics agreement required him to divest, either by selling his assets or giving them away. Simply parking them in a trust was not enough.
Many more details inside, including fancy charts showing the connections to the Bank of Cyprus and Vekselberg.
posted by zachlipton at 12:22 PM on June 18 [32 favorites]


Do you think he knows about the Outer Space Treaty? Do you think he cares?

He has shown time and again that he does not care about any obligations or agreements, whether those are treaties and relationships established by prior administrations, or contracts he signed to pay people for their labor. He does what he wants, and whatever has come before is immaterial.
posted by agentofselection at 12:22 PM on June 18 [3 favorites]


Aparently the iron cross is a “titan 2” platoon symbol (not seeing anything for google on that, no idea of it’s an iron cross) and the Greek is the “Spartan creed”.

I can still tell the guy is a Nazi, mind, on account of how he joined ICE.


Referencing the Spartans is only a slightly quieter dogwhistle. Fascists are all about the Spartans.
posted by camyram at 12:22 PM on June 18 [34 favorites]


Well, the marine platoon with an (unofficial?) iron cross logo that nobody has heard of before isn’t exactly a confidence builder either.
posted by Artw at 12:25 PM on June 18 [9 favorites]


the Greek is the “Spartan creed”

I called it, in a, I guess, deleted comment early this morning
posted by thelonius at 12:26 PM on June 18 [4 favorites]


New York’s Health Department Plans to Recommend Legalizing Marijuana

Cynthia Nixon is such a great governor; it's just weird these articles always give top billing to some other guy with completely different views every time a part of her agenda is carried out.
posted by zachlipton at 12:27 PM on June 18 [59 favorites]


Do you think he knows about the Outer Space Treaty? Do you think he cares?
posted by Weeping_angel at 2:19 PM on June 18 [+] [!]

1. He almost certainly does not know it exists.

2. If he does know it exists, he most certainly does not care about its contents enough to study it.

3. A summary of it short enough to hold his attention would confirm his iron conviction that any treaty entered willingly proves we are suckers.

4. It's an easy idea to sell during a stump speech.

5. He might forget about this in a week.
posted by Caxton1476 at 12:30 PM on June 18 [10 favorites]


Bible-Quoting Marco Rubio Defends Trump's Inhumane Child-Separation Policy

When you're willing to hold out your hand to "never-Trumpers", remember Rubio was their wet-dream candidate.
posted by maxwelton at 12:38 PM on June 18 [24 favorites]


Sahil Kapur (Bloomberg)
New: @KamalaHarris calls on @SecNielsen to resign.
"The government should be in the business of keeping families together, not tearing them apart. And the government should have a commitment to transparency and accountability. Under Secretary Nielsen's tenure, the Department of Homeland Security has a track record of neither. As a result, she must resign.

"During her time as the manager of the government's third largest agency, the Department has implemented a policy that has separated thousands of children from their families, issued a directive to make it easier to detain pregnant women, tried to use DACA recipients as leverage to achieve the President's anti-immigrant agenda, failed to address some of the agency's most pressing management challenges and overseen the continued failed response to tragedy in Puerto Rico.

"As a member of the Homeland Security Committee of the United States Senate for the last 18 months, which has oversight of the Department of Homeland Security, I have asked Secretary Nielsen and other DHS officials to clarify each of these policies, because the American people deserve to know the truth. I have, since March of 2017, repeatedly asked for complete data on the number of children separated and what training and protocol exists for carrying out such separations. In response, the leadership of this department has routinely failed to provide complete answers to questions from me and my colleagues.

"The Department's lack of transparency under Secretary Nielsen's leadership combined with her record of misleading statements including yesterday's denial that the Administration even had a policy of separating children at the border, are disqualifying. We must speak the truth. There is no law that says the Administration has to rip children from their families. This Administration can and must reverse course now and it can and must find new leadership for the Department of Homeland Security."
posted by chris24 at 12:41 PM on June 18 [91 favorites]


Referencing the Spartans is only a slightly quieter dogwhistle. Fascists are all about the Spartans.

So is the entire US military. In particular, I think, the Marines. Their training is based on fucking Spartan manuals. I'm not kidding. The US Military emulates a fascist slave state that held, essentially, toxic masculinity as its highest value system, by design. Apparently they were really good at turning out soldiers, so...

Still feels like something that's going to come back to bite us in the ass.
posted by schadenfrau at 12:44 PM on June 18 [20 favorites]


ICE is pretending to be the local police to gain access in NYC.

I'm sure impersonating a police officer is a crime in New York (and elsewhere).
posted by Gelatin at 12:45 PM on June 18 [9 favorites]


He's lost Fox's Judge Napolitano.

Evan Rosenfeld (Mediaite)
NEW: Fox News senior judicial analyst @Judgenap: “[Trump]’s trying to use children to turn up the heat on the negotiatiors... it’s child abuse to separate children from parents unless necessary to save the human life. That’s not the case here.”
posted by chris24 at 12:47 PM on June 18 [45 favorites]


I'm sure impersonating a police officer is a crime in New York (and elsewhere).

Yeah, it's a felony IIRC. So at this point it's really about whether or not New York institutions -- the NYPD, the mayor, the Governor -- want to do anything about it.

The quotes in the article all sounded very nervous. "Sounds like a very good argument that they've impersonated a police officer" and "we've had no complaints about that, that would be very bad" etc etc.

And it's not like you're going to get a complainant with standing to come forward. Because they're afraid of ICE.
posted by schadenfrau at 12:48 PM on June 18 [8 favorites]


I just read through all of these comments, but I'm not sure I really digested anything beyond the link to the New Yorker article stating that there's no plan or process in place for getting these children back to their families...
posted by xammerboy at 12:50 PM on June 18 [25 favorites]


it's really about whether or not New York institutions -- the NYPD, the mayor, the Governor -- want to do anything about it.


Genuinely curious if anyone with subject area knowledge could weigh in, but it would appear that this listing is short by a few names . . . the District Attorney's office in any of the 5 boroughs (theyre all separate) and/or the NYS AG would, i think, be more inclined to go after this egregious abuse of power if they were able.
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 12:51 PM on June 18 [3 favorites]


Senator Mazie Hirono joins Harris in calling for Nielsen's resignation.

Frank Thorp V (NBC)
Sen @maziehirono steps out of Senate Judiciary on 🔥🔥🔥 about Trump admin policy separating children from parents, says DHS @SecNielsen should Resign, & calls Republicans “gutless wonders” for not doing more to stop it.
posted by chris24 at 12:55 PM on June 18 [67 favorites]


ProPublica, Listen to Children Who’ve Just Been Separated From Their Parents at the Border: ProPublica has obtained audio from inside a U.S. Customs and Border Protection facility, in which children can be heard wailing as an agent jokes, “We have an orchestra here.”

Brb, vomiting.
posted by zachlipton at 12:57 PM on June 18 [86 favorites]




In nearly 500 pages of answers, Facebook stonewalls some senators’ questions -- Written answers follow CEO Mark Zuckerberg's testimony before two Senate committees. (Cyrus Farivar for Ars Technica, June 16, 2018)
Earlier this week, Facebook submitted nearly 500 pages worth of written responses to dozens of US senators’ questions stemming from CEO Mark Zuckerberg’s April 2018 testimony before two committees.

In the documents, the company attempted to provide clarity to the lingering concerns many lawmakers had. While seemingly trying to be forthright overall, Facebook was also evasive when responding to certain critical questions.

Notably, Facebook declined to promise to share the results of its post-Cambridge Analytica investigation with the public or even Congress. The social media giant also wouldn’t say if it had ever turned off a feature for privacy reasons.

Finally, Facebook took a stronger position against offering a more private, paid, ad-free version of it service, saying that if it did so "it would not be Facebook."
Questions FB did not clearly answer include a question from Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-California), who asked: "In 2014, Facebook updated its policies to reduce third party applications’ access to user data. [Is Facebook] now investigating applications that, as you described had access to ‘a large amount of information,’ before this change?" and three questions from Sen. Cortez Masto (D-Nevada): 1. "Has Facebook ever launched a feature that had to be turned off because of the privacy implications?" / 2. "Why did Facebook hire Joseph Chancellor, who was the business partner of Aleksandr Kogan, around the same time as the Guardian article alerted you to the violation of your policies?" / 3. "Why do you continue to employ him to this day?"
posted by filthy light thief at 1:00 PM on June 18 [21 favorites]


zachlipton: The Supreme Court dismissed the Wisconsin partisan gerrymandering case (Gill v. Whitford) for lack of standing. No judges dissented, though there are multiple concurrences. In the Maryland partisan gerrymandering case (Benisek), they issued a per curium decision upholding the denial of a preliminary injunction. In other words, they're not going to touch the actual merits of whether partisan gerrymandering is a thing and how courts should deal with it.

Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish: Gill v. Whitford is a punt, not a full-on denial. They said the district court didn't properly review whether the plaintiffs had standing to sue (which, they said, is based on whether they live in gerrymandered districts) and remanded so it can perform that analysis. Gorsuch and Thomas would have dismissed altogether but couldn't even get Alito to sign on to that garbage.

NPR reports both as punting: Supreme Court Punts On Partisan Gerrymandering, Leaving Status Quo In Place (June 18, 2018)
The U.S. Supreme Court essentially punted on extreme partisan gerrymandering Monday, declining to address the central questions at the heart of whether the practice is constitutional.

The court took up two cases, one out of Wisconsin and one out of Maryland, with lines drawn by both parties.

It declared that the plaintiffs in Wisconsin don't have standing to sue, because they didn't try to prove that their vote had been diluted in their own district.

In Maryland, the court declined to engage on the merits of the case. The lower court, it said, was right in leaving the current system in place.

In many ways, this is a win for those who wish to leave partisan gerrymandering in place, because this decision likely makes it harder for groups opposed to the practice to bring such a case in the future.

Justice Elena Kagan filed a concurring opinion, however, that liberals may look to figure out a roadmap for how to bring a future case, as those opposed to partisan gerrymandering are sure to regroup.

"Partisan gerrymandering, as this Court has recognized, is 'incompatible with democratic principles,' " Kagan wrote, adding, "More effectively every day, that practice enables politicians to entrench themselves in power against the people's will. And only the courts can do anything to remedy the problem, because gerrymanders benefit those who control the political branches."

Kagan's concurrence was signed by the court's other three liberals and cites Justice Anthony Kennedy, and it appears Kennedy remains the potential swing vote on the merits of partisan gerrymandering.

That's if Kennedy remains on the court, and, for now, the status quo remains in place.
The article continues with background of the cases.
posted by filthy light thief at 1:05 PM on June 18 [6 favorites]


ProPublica, Listen to Children Who’ve Just Been Separated From Their Parents at the Border

Time to haul every amplifier in DC to the White House.
posted by Rust Moranis at 1:06 PM on June 18 [68 favorites]


The WH press briefing has been delayed, and is now about 10 mins overdue from its pushed-back time. Id LOVE for a reporter to ask Sarah Sanders to respond to the audio of those children, have he say she hasnt heard it, and have it played for her right then and there during the briefing.

ah fantasies
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 1:08 PM on June 18 [54 favorites]


at this point I am genuinely afraid they would enjoy it
posted by kelborel at 1:17 PM on June 18 [19 favorites]


The WH press briefing has been delayed, and is now about 10 mins overdue from its pushed-back time. Id LOVE for a reporter to ask Sarah Sanders to respond to the audio of those children, have he say she hasnt heard it, and have it played for her right then and there during the briefing.

There's always Brian Karem, but you know what she'll say: "Well, if their parents didn't want them to be sad, they shouldn't have blah blah blah yata yata" or "Kids cry; they're getting excellent care." They're soulless bloodsucking ghouls; listening to devastated kids won't make them find a sudden well of empathy.
posted by FelliniBlank at 1:17 PM on June 18 [5 favorites]


Then a distraught but determined 6-year-old Salvadoran girl pleads repeatedly for someone to call her aunt. Just one call, she begs anyone who will listen. She says she’s memorized the phone number, and at one point, rattles it off to a consular representative. “My mommy says that I’ll go with my aunt,” she whimpers, “and that she’ll come to pick me up there as quickly as possible.”
Jesus fucking Christ.

The article notes that the ten children on the call appear to be between the ages of four and 10. I leave it as an exercise in wanting to punch the fuck out of Jeff Sessions to imagine which end of the age range cries harder.
posted by joyceanmachine at 1:18 PM on June 18 [50 favorites]


The ProPublica audio is, like most of their work (support non-profit journalism!) Creative Commons licensed, so it can be used for free by other outlets. I have the C-SPAN feed for the perennially delayed press briefing open in the background, and I can hear WH reporters in the briefing room listening to it now.

Will the broadcast networks air it tonight?
posted by zachlipton at 1:19 PM on June 18 [35 favorites]


I wish the media would call it what it is: Child torture.

Saying, "children are being held in harsh conditions/separated from their parents/may experience long-term trauma" is handwaving past the fact that these people are deliberately inflicting pain on children in order to make adults more pliable.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 1:19 PM on June 18 [52 favorites]


The audio is being played in the background of the briefing room right now.
posted by Rust Moranis at 1:19 PM on June 18 [49 favorites]


Matthew La Corte
Here's a thread featuring Republican responses on ending the policy of family separation:
- Rep. Diaz-Balert (R-FL) says, "It is totally unacceptable, for any reason, to purposely separate minor children from their parents. Any and every other option should be implemented in order to not separate minors from their parents, which I believe is unconscionable"
- Rep. Love (R-UT) says, "The Administration’s horrible “zero tolerance” policy has unnecessarily separated children from their parents and I firmly oppose it. As a mother of three children & daughter of immigrant parents, this is something that’s heartbreaking to me"
- Rep. Fred Upton (R-MI) says, "It's time for this ugly and inhumane practive to end now. It's never acceptable to use kids as bagaining chips in the political process"
- Sen. Ben Sasse (R-NE) says, "The administration’s decision to separate families is a new, discretionary choice. Anyone saying that their hands are tied or that the only conceivable way to fix the problem of catch-and-release is to rip families apart is flat wrong"
- Rep. David Valadao (R-CA) says, "while we must work to reduce the occurence of illegal border crossings, it is unacceptable to seperate young children from their parents. This is exactly why passage of a compromise solution is absolutely necessary"
- Senator James Lankford (R-OK) says,"I disagree with the administration’s policy of separating families, but we must continue to protect the privacy of the children, many who have experienced trauma"
- Gov. Charlie Baker (R-MA) says "the federal governments' actions are resulting in the inhumane treatment of children"
- Mitt Romney says "we need a more compassionate answer" to protect children
- Senator Heller (R-NV), "doesn’t support separating children from their families, and he believes that this issue highlights just how broken our immigration system is and why Congress must act to fix it"
- Rep. Carlos Curbelo (R-FL) says, "The separation of children from parents is always a tragedy. While some tolerated it when it happened under the previous administration, I found it unacceptable then & I find it unacceptable now"
- Rep. Erik Paulsen (R-MN) says, "It's heartbreaking to hear about the situation along our border and the stories of children being removed from their moms and dads. The U.S. should not forcibly break up families. That is just not what America is about"
posted by chris24 at 1:24 PM on June 18 [24 favorites]




Here's a thread featuring Republican responses on ending the policy of family separation:

tl;dr: Thoughts and prayers
posted by zombieflanders at 1:24 PM on June 18 [32 favorites]


Action alert: National Treasure Walter Shaub is sounding the alarm for a national protest after getting 100,000 votes for it on Twitter; he says details will be announced at 8:00 tonight.
posted by kelborel at 1:25 PM on June 18 [35 favorites]


Finally, Facebook took a stronger position against offering a more private, paid, ad-free version of it service, saying that if it did so "it would not be Facebook."

Well this might make it easier to sieze Facebook once we’ve beat back the Nazi menace and can turn our attention to collaborators and war profiteers

Silver linings, take em where you can get em
posted by schadenfrau at 1:25 PM on June 18 [3 favorites]


Brian Karem went behind the Blue Door. Someone said "you get 'em, Brian." He came back a minute later and is now saying that he "knocked on the door but no one answered." He says he doesn't know if anyone's back there.
posted by Rust Moranis at 1:26 PM on June 18 [11 favorites]


Colorado governor bars state resources for Trump family separation policy
Colorado Gov. John Hickenlooper (D) is barring state agencies from using state resources in support of carrying out President Trump's "zero tolerance" policy that separates migrant families at the U.S.-Mexico border.

The governor signed an executive order on Monday that forbids state resources from being used "to separate children from parents or legal guardians on sole ground of immigration status."

“The U.S. Department of Homeland Security’s policy and practice of separating children from their parents when arriving at the southern border is offensive to our core values as Coloradans and as a country,” he states in the order.

Hickenlooper also sent a letter to Congress urging that they take action to stop the policy, according to CNN.
posted by chris24 at 1:27 PM on June 18 [46 favorites]


Here's a thread featuring Republican responses on ending the policy of family separation:

I hear a lot of flapping gums, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
posted by nubs at 1:27 PM on June 18 [13 favorites]


Senator Heller (R-NV), "doesn’t support separating children from their families, and he believes that this issue highlights just how broken our immigration system is and why Congress must act to fix it"

Sen. Ben Sasse (R-NE) says, "The administration’s decision to separate families is a new, discretionary choice. Anyone saying that their hands are tied or that the only conceivable way to fix the problem of catch-and-release is to rip families apart is flat wrong"


Words mean nothing. Unless they sign on to the Democratic bill, they support child torture. That's it. There are zero other options. Just these two could stop this, today. If they don't, it's because they approve of the policy 100%.
posted by T.D. Strange at 1:28 PM on June 18 [33 favorites]


Senator James Lankford (R-OK) says,"I disagree with the administration’s policy of separating families, but we must continue to protect the privacy of the children, many who have experienced trauma"

LIKE BEING TAKEN FROM THEIR FAMILIES AND THROWN IN CAGES YOU RAGING PROLAPSE
posted by schadenfrau at 1:29 PM on June 18 [33 favorites]


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jun/18/separation-children-parents-families-us-border-trump
I’m on an old iPad and cant figure out how to make links, but I hope you will read this comment. This is my family’s story, in a way, but obviously also different. My uncle was left behind with kind gentiles when my grandparents fled, and has never recovered. My mother came along, but suffers to this day from anxiety and depression. My aunt was born a refugee, and my gran, her mother suffered from post-partum depression and never loved her. How do you think this worked out when they grew up to become parents? What is happening now doesn’t only affect those it hurts directly.
posted by mumimor at 1:32 PM on June 18 [38 favorites]


Jesus fucking christ. I am immune to just about fucking everything. I have dealt with a fair share of trauma and can power through emotions on logic and getting shit accomplished. I got through the entire audio, but not without getting nauseated. If the people in the press room aren't asking hard questions and demanding answers, they are soulless.
posted by Sophie1 at 1:33 PM on June 18 [17 favorites]


when you've even lost BILL FUCKING O'REILLY:

"The government should know how bad this looks and how innocent children are actually suffering. That kind of scenario is unacceptable to most Americans as exemplified by former First Lady Laura Bush's withering criticism."

kinda fucked up that "the government" is unilaterally controlled by one party headed by a close personal friend of yours, eh bill?
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 1:33 PM on June 18 [38 favorites]


Press Briefing update: per Zeke Miller the briefing now set to begin at 5pm so Nielsen can gaslight us all some more. [paraphrase]
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 1:34 PM on June 18 [3 favorites]


Everybody should listen to that link, it's painful, but it's part of our national history now.
posted by Sphinx at 1:36 PM on June 18 [14 favorites]


Notable that in that quote O'Reilly cites how bad it looks for the Republicans three times ("how bad this looks"/"unacceptable to most Americans"/"Laura Bush's withering criticism") to "innocent children are actually suffering" only once.
posted by Gelatin at 1:37 PM on June 18 [38 favorites]


Is there a better link for the audio? I get a "Error 503 Backend.max_conn reached" error.
posted by ian1977 at 1:38 PM on June 18


Reversing course, Massachusetts Gov. Baker directs National Guard not to send any assets or personnel to the Southwest border "because the federal government’s current actions are resulting in the inhumane treatment of children.”

Colorado governor bars state resources for Trump family separation policy

can't believe we're gonna have another civil war based on states' rights except this time it's the federal government full of racists. it's gonna be super-confusing for future students.
posted by logicpunk at 1:39 PM on June 18 [11 favorites]


> The government should know how bad this looks

For fucks sake, none of this is about how it looks! The government shouldn't fucking be doing it, period. What he is saying is totally inline with Republican wishes for this to simply not be visible, of course.
posted by MysticMCJ at 1:40 PM on June 18 [23 favorites]




Seriously. I want my state to expel ICE. Entirely. I would sign the fuck up for that.
posted by schadenfrau at 1:41 PM on June 18 [22 favorites]




Here's the full text of S.3036 - Keep Families Together Act. The question for GOP Senators is this: what in this bill is worse than the administration's current policy that prevents you from signing on to it?
posted by jetsetsc at 1:42 PM on June 18 [29 favorites]


I want to make this very clear. If you are a childhood trauma survivor and/or you have kids who have suffered trauma, this audio is EXTREMELY painful and triggering. Please take care of your mental health. If you need to not listen, do not make yourself.
posted by Sophie1 at 1:43 PM on June 18 [56 favorites]


The question for GOP Senators is this: what in this bill is worse than the administration's current policy that prevents you from signing on to it?

it was written and sponsored by democrats, so...
posted by anem0ne at 1:44 PM on June 18 [3 favorites]




It's incredibly sad that the best-case scenario right now is "well maybe we somehow get the government to lock up parents and children together in inhumane conditions," and people will cheer that victory if it somehow happens.
posted by zachlipton at 1:46 PM on June 18 [49 favorites]


The question for GOP Senators is this: what in this bill is worse than the administration's current policy that prevents you from signing on to it?

it was written and sponsored by democrats, so...


I can totally see the Republicans introducing a bill of their own with the exact same text and McConnell putting that up for vote just to be petty dicks if a couple Republican senators signal they'll back it.
posted by jason_steakums at 1:47 PM on June 18 [1 favorite]


> I can totally see the Republicans introducing a bill of their own with the exact same text

There's no way that they don't include a demand for wall funding or similar... I don't think they would pass up any opportunity to use hostages in their favor, no matter how horrible things are.
posted by MysticMCJ at 1:51 PM on June 18 [5 favorites]


I think - and I'm speculating based on her comments - the objection Senator Collins makes to the Keep Families Together Act is that Section 2 (a)(1), (2) and (3) as written would prohibit separation even if the parent is arrested for a felony. Perhaps there's a reason that's not included in the conditions for separation, I don't know.
posted by schoolgirl report at 1:52 PM on June 18


Also, resistbot got a fax through to my governor on the first try. As I only recently started using it, I don't know if that's a common thing or not-- but if that line isn't perpetually busy, we aren't making enough noise.
posted by MysticMCJ at 1:53 PM on June 18 [2 favorites]


Of course, if that's the case she could simply offer up her own version, but she's clearly too feckless to bother.
posted by schoolgirl report at 1:55 PM on June 18


Politico, Nancy Cook, Trump aides plan fresh immigration crackdowns before midterms
Top aides to President Donald Trump are planning additional crackdowns on immigration before the November midterms, despite a growing backlash over the administration’s move to separate migrant children from parents at the border.

Senior policy adviser Stephen Miller and a team of officials from the Justice Department, Department of Labor, Department of Homeland Security, and the Office of Management and Budget have been quietly meeting for months to find ways to use executive authority and under-the-radar rule changes to strengthen hard-line U.S. immigration policies, according to interviews with half a dozen current and former administration officials and Republicans close to the White House.

The goal for Miller and his team is to arm Trump with enough data and statistics by early September to show voters that he fulfilled his immigration promises — even without a physical border wall or any other congressional measure, said one Republican close to the White House.

Among the fresh ideas being circulated: tightening rules on student visas and exchange programs; limiting visas for temporary agricultural workers; making it harder for legal immigrants who have applied for any welfare programs to obtain residency; and collecting biometric data from visitors from certain countries.
...
In one of the most closely watched plans under discussion, the Department of Homeland Security has proposed a new rule that former Obama administration officials and immigration advocates worry could be used as an end run around a 1997 court settlement that limits the length of time migrant children can be kept in government custody.

“Once you rescind that regulation, then you go back to being able to do whatever you want and the detention becomes the complete discretion of ICE,” said Leon Fresco, former deputy assistant attorney general for the Office of Immigration Litigation at the Department of Justice. “That is where people think this is headed.”
They've realized that attacking immigrants won them the last election, so they'll do it with the force of law this time.
posted by zachlipton at 1:55 PM on June 18 [42 favorites]


Mitt Romney takes a strong stance! *

* Mitt Romney dies not take a strong stance, Mitt Romney takes a weak as piss stance that is as utterly useless and morally compromised as everything else he says and does.
posted by Artw at 1:56 PM on June 18 [14 favorites]


when we abolish ICE, what will become of its 20K employees? will they filter into the private security/incarceration industry, join police forces, TSA, the private-army-formerly-known-as-blackwater/xe (and its ilk), agitate among the oath keepers or worse? or merely turn in their jumpsuits & guns and, abashed, merge harmlessly back into civilian society, as good citizens who neither harm nor seek to harm others?
posted by 20 year lurk at 1:58 PM on June 18 [4 favorites]


Lock them up.
posted by Artw at 1:59 PM on June 18 [40 favorites]


Please, this is what Mitt Romney insinuated he wanted when he ran for president on the platform of "self-deportation" for undocumented immigrants. Make coming to America so onerous so many won't even try.
posted by Groundhog Week at 2:00 PM on June 18 [18 favorites]


@oliverdarcy: A White House official tells @jeffzeleny that @PressSec didn't want to do the briefing today amid questions on child separation policy, so @SecNielsen is being flown in from New Orleans to take questions.

I mean, this is self-serving nonsense so Sanders can protect her reputation as a caring mother who tears up at the prospect of such things, nevermind how much time she's already spent defending the policy, but here we are. I like this suggestion to use someone who is already in the building instead:

@pbump: Or they could have brought Trump in.
posted by zachlipton at 2:00 PM on June 18 [44 favorites]


I can totally see the Republicans introducing a bill of their own with the exact same text

There's no way that they don't include a demand for wall funding or similar... I don't think they would pass up any opportunity to use hostages in their favor, no matter how horrible things are.

At the moment they're more scared of Trump (and Trump voters) than they are scared of anything else.
posted by notyou at 2:02 PM on June 18


when we abolish ICE, what will become of its 20K employees?

Historically speaking, they should flee to Argentina.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 2:03 PM on June 18 [119 favorites]


Sanders deserves very little moral credit (in my estimation) for refusing to handle today’s briefing. If she had taken to the podium and announced her personal objections, maybe. If she had tendered her resignation? Sure. But this is what you sign up for when you agree to be disinformation minister for this president.

I’m sick to death of these double standards on moral questions. These are moral questions, and they have zero credibility on morality. Make that clear.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 2:04 PM on June 18 [26 favorites]


There's no way that they don't include a demand for wall funding or similar... I don't think they would pass up any opportunity to use hostages in their favor, no matter how horrible things are.

There's no way they give up the hostages simply because it's the right thing to do.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 2:04 PM on June 18 [1 favorite]


Sanders is a damn coward and should stand up, face the nation, and tell the lies she's paid to tell.
posted by EarBucket at 2:06 PM on June 18 [46 favorites]


@oliverdarcy: A White House official tells @jeffzeleny that @PressSec didn't want to do the briefing today amid questions on child separation policy, so @SecNielsen is being flown in from New Orleans to take questions.

I mean, this is self-serving nonsense so Sanders can protect her reputation as a caring mother who tears up at the prospect of such things, nevermind how much time she's already spent defending the policy, but here we are.


At the risk of presenting too much hope: it's reasonable to see this as a sign of traction. Sarah Huckabee Sanders isn't in her position to sway anyone's opinions or put out any convincing lies. Everyone knows she's full of shit, including her. Sanders is out there to say "Fuck you" to the press, every day, which is why Trump wants her there.

Someone like her dodging this is significant. I don't remotely think it's because she spent the weekend looking for her empathy. I'm not seeing this as a sign of any shred of humanity within her. But this looks bad enough that even she wants to dodge it.

Take the little wins. Even the tiny, petty little wins. Don't stop there, but don't ignore them, either. It's how you build momentum.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 2:07 PM on June 18 [57 favorites]


In re visa crackdowns and so on: It will be interesting to see how they handle produce rotting in the fields (already starting to happen) and universities missing out on all those sweet, sweet full-tuition enrollees. In a typical administration, you'd assume they'd cave as "respectable" people with money start to complain, but since this is really just the oligarchs and their fascist base, they'll probably just carry on because they don't care if they run everyone else into bankruptcy.
posted by Frowner at 2:08 PM on June 18 [9 favorites]


Historically speaking, they should flee to Argentina.

Should we set up a Go Fund Me?
posted by ian1977 at 2:09 PM on June 18


so @SecNielsen is being flown in from New Orleans to take questions.

I want to see the look on her face when that audio is played back for her. I hope there is at least one person in the press room who will do that.
posted by Existential Dread at 2:14 PM on June 18 [6 favorites]


shes being described as "chipper" and "upbeat" by reporters in the briefing - chris geidener from buzzfeed noting it isnt "exactly fitting the day"
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 2:15 PM on June 18 [8 favorites]


I am on a pro-killing-the-planet mailing list (Energy Nation) that just announced that today, June 19, is the last day to comment (right column) on the Department of the Interior's plan to start drilling in Alaska's Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. If you haven't commented, please do!
posted by Bella Donna at 2:16 PM on June 18 [10 favorites]


I called the DC office of my Senator Joni Ernst (R-IA) and said I had a nomination for her "Squeal Award", named in reference to her previous job castrating pigs, and the poetic resemblance of that task to reducing government "pork".
I will be giving out my Squeal Award each month, which recognizes a Washington expense, program or concept that has proven to be wasteful and must be cut. Iowans simply should not be on the hook for these reckless spending habits. By highlighting this out of control waste, we can work to hold Washington accountable.
My nominee was the Trump administration's new and unilateral zero-tolerance policy on illegal entry, which has resulted in thousands of children being snatched from their parents and housed in cages in privately-operated concentration camps, including a disused Walmart. I proposed that a great deal of taxpayer money might be saved by allowing the children to remain with their parents, instead of snatching them away and sending them to a cage in a privately-operated concentration camp. I noted that the policy would be a highly appropriate recipient of the "Squeal Award" because of the inevitable "Squealing" noises that are no doubt issued by toddlers when being snatched away from their mothers and placed into cages in privately-operated concentration camps. I also noted that this wasteful spending was all due to the unilateral actions of the Trump administration, aided and enabled by complicit politicians such as Senator Joni Ernst, who remains silent in the face of this monstrous evil. I was thanked and my message will be passed along
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 2:20 PM on June 18 [45 favorites]


Can't we get somebody to go on Fox and Friends, look directly into the camera, and tell Trump that the ratings are really bad on this and that he should pardon all the children?
posted by Soliloquy at 2:20 PM on June 18 [6 favorites]


Some should interrupt her right here by playing that audio . . . shes going on about how well the children are treated.
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 2:21 PM on June 18 [9 favorites]


Hillary Clinton blasts administration on family separation (with a side of I warned you!) and calls on women to lead (Vox).
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 2:21 PM on June 18 [32 favorites]


Kristjen Nielsen wraps up by saying, essentially, "won't someone please think of the Nazis?"

The first or second question is thankfully asking if she's heard the audio of the wailing children and seen the pictures of them in cages.
posted by Justinian at 2:25 PM on June 18 [16 favorites]


SHE HASNT SEEN [OR HEARD] SOMETHING CAME OUT TODAY - AND I AM SHOCKED!
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 2:25 PM on June 18 [5 favorites]


DHS Secretary is putting a bright face on this draconian horseshit. This theater of cruelty is nauseating.

Q: How is this not child abuse?
Sec: Could you be more specific?
posted by Barack Spinoza at 2:25 PM on June 18 [18 favorites]


Peter Baker (NYT)
Another first lady heard from: Rosalynn Carter releases statement saying "The practice and policy today of removing children from their parents' care at our border with Mexico is disgraceful and a shame to our country."
posted by chris24 at 2:26 PM on June 18 [32 favorites]


Was the follow-up "don't worry, we can play it for you right now"?
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 2:26 PM on June 18 [6 favorites]


Can we please leave fatalism out of the thread and take it this-a-way? Thanks much!
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 2:27 PM on June 18 [19 favorites]


Listening to the DHS Secretary, one thing is clear to me -nothing will change and there' nothing anyone can do to stop this.

I understand the sentiment, but there are people who could stop this, and they have (R) after their names. Just because they're not stopping it and unlikely to doesn't mean we should cede the point that they are choosing this just as much as Trump and Nielsen and Pence and all the others.
posted by Emmy Rae at 2:27 PM on June 18 [14 favorites]


Hillary Clinton blasts administration on family separation (with a side of I warned you!)

Hillary Clinton is fully entitled and correct to tell everyone "I told you so" about this regime forever.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 2:27 PM on June 18 [116 favorites]


Someone needs to ask her if she is aware that "I was only following orders" has not been seen as sufficient justification for enforcing immoral laws since at least 1945. Am I wrong that her justification is "this is the law and we are only following orders"?
posted by Justinian at 2:27 PM on June 18 [17 favorites]


Nielsen straight-up said that one of the reasons parents can be separated from their children is if they don't have documents demonstrating their relationship. Because paperwork is something that most people fleeing persecution tend to have in droves.

Somebody should play the damn audio for her.
posted by zachlipton at 2:27 PM on June 18 [38 favorites]


im going to stop with the live-blogging i swear but this exchange just happened:

Reporter: do you think this policy, or any part of it, is cruel?

DHS Sec Neilsen: its not a policy.
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 2:28 PM on June 18 [10 favorites]


Where are the girls, where are the toddlers?

Neilsen: i dont know
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 2:29 PM on June 18 [42 favorites]


Reporters in the room (a) aren't playing the tape (b) aren't reading her Sessions or Kelly's defense of the "not a policy".
posted by T.D. Strange at 2:29 PM on June 18 [3 favorites]


I am on a pro-killing-the-planet mailing list (Energy Nation) that just announced that today, June 19, is the last day to comment (right column) on the Department of the Interior's plan to start drilling in Alaska's Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. If you haven't commented, please do!

That comment form seems intimidatingly technical. Any idea what kind of comments would be effective, and/or how should they be formatted?
posted by runcibleshaw at 2:31 PM on June 18


I understand the sentiment, but there are people who could stop this, and they have (R) after their names. Just because they're not stopping it and unlikely to doesn't mean we should cede the point that they are choosing this just as much as Trump and Nielsen and Pence and all the others.

Does it matter? If we have every indication that shows that politicians with an R behind their names have no intention of ending this, what's there to cede? The practical matter is that no one will stop this. Let's be clear, I'm in a family of immigrants that have been deeply affected by this administration. I am intimately familiar with immigration law and process. Nothing will change for these people until this administration chooses to.
posted by RedShrek at 2:32 PM on June 18 [1 favorite]


@pdmcleod: I would like a White House reporter to ask Nielsen specifically how Congress can end child separation when parents are prosecuted, as all of them are. Am very, very curious to hear her answer.

This is the central contradiction here. How can "Congress can fix this tomorrow," as she just flippantly said with a smile, as long as it's administration policy to prosecute everyone for illegal entry? If their position is that everyone gets prosecuted, and Congress isn't going to repeal the illegal entry statute, separating families will continue to happen as long as they keep that up.

Neilsen is now complaining that there are "loopholes" (in other words, court orders) that prevent jailing children, so they have no choice.
posted by zachlipton at 2:34 PM on June 18 [10 favorites]


Woo hoo MS13 made it big
posted by RedShrek at 2:34 PM on June 18


Nielsen is so much better than trump in playing the game of deflecting blame to Congress and criminal boogeymen. She just basically puts it on full nazi order following mode and doesn’t deviate.
posted by Burhanistan at 2:36 PM on June 18 [5 favorites]


PLAY THE AUDIO
posted by birdheist at 2:37 PM on June 18 [5 favorites]


this is getting good - she repeated that they should come through legal ports and is now "defending" turning people away by saying that its just because we dont have the resources at this time and that they should come back.

now she says the idea that this policy is acting as a deterrent is offensive, what a fucking asshole.
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 2:37 PM on June 18 [7 favorites]


I want to share how I reduced my feeling of despairing powerlessness by at least 10%, if not 15%!

It occurred to me that I could easily put together a pamphlet with information about what's happening, and some numbers people can call and organizations they can support. I paid a copy shop to fire off 1,000 copies, and two of my friends helped me fold them all up. I handed out half in stacks to local businesses to put by their cash registers. I plan to hand out the rest when I go back to protest again in front of ICE's NYC headquarters at 26 Federal Plaza (the employee exit is on Worth St.). I'll probably be there tomorrow around noon for about an hour, if anyone wants to join me. You're all welcome to adapt the pamphlet to your states and use and distribute however you want.
posted by prefpara at 2:37 PM on June 18 [79 favorites]


Nielsen says people seeking asylum should enter legally at ports of entry and claim asylum. Asked about how people are being turned away at ports of entry, "That actually is incorrect. We have limited resources." She claims that they're not turning them away, just telling them to come back.

So it's actually...correct?
posted by zachlipton at 2:37 PM on June 18 [15 favorites]


Reporter in the briefing just shouted “Lies!” as the DHS Sec left the room to shouted questions.
posted by Barack Spinoza at 2:38 PM on June 18 [68 favorites]


Someone has played the audio, but it's only faint in the background. I'm saddened that during the 2.5 hour delay, nobody found a bluetooth speaker to use.
posted by onehalfjunco at 2:38 PM on June 18 [10 favorites]




I hate this. Why is no one pointing out that in 2014 the Gang of 8 had agreed on immigration reform and then Senator Jeff Sessions and Stephen Miller undermined it!
posted by W Grant at 2:42 PM on June 18 [5 favorites]


A reporter was playing the audio during the briefing.
posted by Sophie1 at 2:42 PM on June 18 [4 favorites]


Prepared statement by Dem WV Sen Capito after Trump mtg. She chairs subcmte which controls wall funding: We are on the same page as President Trump. Our highest priority is securing the U.S. border.

To clarify, Senator Capito is actually a Republican.
posted by Emmy Rae at 2:44 PM on June 18 [21 favorites]


Yeah, and Pergram works for Fox News.
posted by zombieflanders at 2:46 PM on June 18 [3 favorites]


Maybe... maybe [Manchin] felt the policy is awful and does awful things?

And/or he can read polls and realizes this policy is a big loser. Either way, Republicans face party pressures that Democrats don't, and it matters.
posted by msalt at 2:51 PM on June 18 [5 favorites]


Capito is one of the Republicans that people sometimes inexplicably lump in with the "moderate" group, without any sort of evidence that she is. During the healthcare debates she was one of the targets to flip because an ungodly percentage of her state is on Medicaid despite voting overwhelmingly for Trump.
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:01 PM on June 18 [3 favorites]


@Olivianuzzi: I played the audio of children separated from their parents at a US Customs and Border Protection facility that was published by @ProPublica today at the White House briefing. Officials failed to adequately and truthfully answer questions about the policy. I would have waited until I was called on to play it, but I was not being called on. After another reporter’s phone began loudly ringing with a melodic jingle, I figured the briefing room could probably deal with a more important disturbance.
posted by zachlipton at 3:04 PM on June 18 [83 favorites]


I wonder if this is the beginning of a sustained propaganda campaign to shore up republican support for the midterm election. If so, I fear what the coming weeks will bring. Mass deportations, pulling out of NAFTA, more economic sanctions for Mexico, militarization of the border, etc. The whole Trump wish list on speed. God help us.
posted by Omon Ra at 3:06 PM on June 18 [11 favorites]


God help us.

If God exists, he'll have to beg our forgiveness.

We help us.
posted by Rust Moranis at 3:10 PM on June 18 [21 favorites]


@dale_e_ho: Kansas documentary proof of citizenship law for voter registration struck down permanently. Court finds it violates the NVRA and the U.S. Constitution.
posted by Chrysostom at 3:11 PM on June 18 [59 favorites]


Ted Cruz, of all people..

Andrew Desiderio (@desiderioDC)
CRUZ introduces “emergency legislation” to keep families together at the border and provide funding for new immigration judges to expedite court proceedings for asylum cases. Summary from his office: [image, text reproduced below]
This week Sen. Cruz is introducing the Protect Kids and Parents Act, which will:

. Double the number of federal immigration judges, from roughly 375 to 750
. Authorize new temporary shelters, with accomodations to keep families together.
. Mandate that illegal immigrant families must be kept together, absent aggravated criminal conduct or threat of harm to the children.
. Provide for expedited processing and review of asylum cases, so that -- within 14 days -- those who meet the legal standards will be granted asylum, and those who do not will immediately be returned to their home countries.
Of course, he can't just sign on to the Democratic bill. And I have .. concerns .. about the adherence to the "legal standards" of those being granted asylum. It's increasingly obvious that this administration wishes to criminalize asylum for .. y'know... undesirables. But, we won't be caging children? so? small win maybe?


(*sigh*)
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 3:12 PM on June 18 [6 favorites]


@CharlesSoule
If they will do this to children, on the flimsiest excuse, they will do it to anyone.

Including, on the flimsiest excuse, you.


(thread)
posted by Artw at 3:17 PM on June 18 [45 favorites]


Cruz must be really worried about Beto.
posted by Sphinx at 3:18 PM on June 18 [36 favorites]


He'd better worry about Beto. I see new signs for that guy every day in my very average Texas neighborhood.

I didn't post anything but "Call your Senators" on my Facebook today. Couldn't stand to post anything silly.

I don't want to relax because of Cruz's bill because I trust the Rs as far as I can throw them with my busted arm, but we'll see.
posted by emjaybee at 3:21 PM on June 18 [11 favorites]


Kobach didn't just lose. He was ordered to complete 6 hours of additional continuing legal education in the hope that he learn the rules of civil procedure and evidence. He insisted on trying the case himself instead of letting the Kansas Attorney General’s office do their jobs, and it went spectacularly poorly.

Provide for expedited processing and review of asylum cases, so that -- within 14 days -- those who meet the legal standards will be granted asylum, and those who do not will immediately be returned to their home countries.

Even if this is possible, I can't see how this wouldn't be the complete end of asylum in this country. Some of these are effectively death penalty cases; this would turn them into a rush job.
posted by zachlipton at 3:22 PM on June 18 [32 favorites]


Kobach also ended up making the state pay for his court fine for contempt.
posted by Chrysostom at 3:24 PM on June 18 [3 favorites]


The only way to adjudicate a case in 14 days is either to deny them all, or allow them all. Guess which one 350 new Republican appointed immigrant judges will be ordered to pick.
posted by T.D. Strange at 3:25 PM on June 18 [15 favorites]


Cruz must be really worried about Beto.

I hope he's worried, that he's sweating bullets and needing an Ambien prescription. I want to see every man Jack and every woman Jill of the (R)'s that have a D opponent turfed out - or at least as many as possible. Rather than trying to win over "swing" voters, we just need to get as many D voters to the polls as we possibly can. When we vote, we win. Two-thirds of Americans are opposed to the atrocity that is going on. We can stop the authoritarians if we get to the polls and elect Democrats.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 3:27 PM on June 18 [17 favorites]


Merriam-Webster tweeted out an explanation of 'gaslighting' immediately after Nielsen's press conference ended.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 3:30 PM on June 18 [98 favorites]


Me earlier: At the moment they're [GOP pols] more scared of Trump (and Trump voters) than they are scared of anything else.

Sphinx, a moment ago: Cruz must be really worried about Beto.

They'll need several more scared GOP pols to get this done (and good luck getting the President to sign it), but it's a start.
posted by notyou at 3:34 PM on June 18


I would like the phrase "swing voters" to disappear. These human pendulums, who need to be courted every 2-4 years, are not worth the candle.
posted by Iris Gambol at 3:43 PM on June 18 [27 favorites]


Say what you want about the tenets of National Socialism, at least they had real trauma.

Matt Christman
At least the original Nazi social base went though World War One and the Depression. What are these people’s excuse? That Tim Allen show getting cancelled?
posted by chris24 at 3:44 PM on June 18 [100 favorites]


In the summary of an article titled "Growing number of Republicans urge Trump to change policy on separating families", the WaPo demonstrates a growing spine:

President Trump doubled down on his false insistence that Democrats are to blame for the administration’s forced separation of migrant children from their families at the border. Contrary to Trump’s claims, the separations largely stem from a “zero-tolerance” policy announced with fanfare last month by Attorney General Jeff Sessions.

And look, the NYT too: "Trump Defends Child Separation but Falsely Pins It on Democrats"

President Trump remained resistant in the face of growing public outcry over his administration’s policy of separating children from their parents at the border. He repeated the false assertion that Democrats were to blame for it, and claimed that criminals used children to cross into the U.S.

I'm afraid the Republicans are going to bail for the exits and then pretend nothing ever happened, when the only acceptable solution in the long term is to abolish ICE and prosecute its goons.
posted by RedOrGreen at 3:47 PM on June 18 [24 favorites]


At least the original Nazi social base went though World War One and the Depression. What are these people’s excuse? That Tim Allen show getting cancelled?

Apparently it’s that in our dystopian hell world the largest voting block lives in “Villages” perfectly isolated from the world beyond FOX News.
posted by Artw at 3:49 PM on June 18 [8 favorites]


Arizona Daily Star (there has been an abundance of really good local reporting on this, which needs to be listened to more), In Tucson court, immigrant parents still left guessing about kids' whereabouts
For the 51st time in the last month, a parent wanted to know the whereabouts of her child. And for the 51st time, the authorities in federal court in Tucson did not tell her.

Flor Berillos de Lopez pleaded guilty to crossing the border illegally June 10 near Lukeville with her 15-year-old daughter, who was taken from her by the Border Patrol hours before Berillos’ June 12 hearing at U.S. District Court in Tucson.

“They were separated this morning and she does not know where her child is,” defense lawyer Joe Machado told Magistrate Judge Bernardo P. Velasco during an Operation Streamline hearing, a fast-track prosecution program for illegal border crossers.

The exchange came a week after Magistrate Judge Bruce G. MacDonald told federal prosecutor Christopher Lewis to call the agency responsible for the children and report back with a way for parents to know where their children are.

On June 6, U.S. Attorney’s Office spokesman Cosme Lopez said prosecutors in Tucson were working with law enforcement and the Office of Refugee Resettlement, which places children split from their parents in foster care or with family members, to develop a “mechanism” to keep parents informed about their children.

A week later, Lopez said he was “unsure” what was happening with the mechanism.
The most important bit is farther down though:
As is the case with most parents prosecuted through Streamline, Berillos was scheduled to be sentenced to time served, released and deported.

“You would think they would know that and keep them together,” Machado said.
Nielsen has had many arguments, including claiming no policy exists, but one of her main ones is that parents have to be separated from children because the parents are being prosecuted for illegal entry. But in most cases, these are misdemeanor illegal entry charges (illegal re-entry is a felony) where defendants are often sentenced to time served. It's not like the parents are spending long periods of time in prison on the criminal charge that would require separation; they're just being separated for the sake of separating them.

Also, @chrislhayes:
It's really really important we find out how many young children (under 10) are in ORR custody, where they are, and how these facilities are caring for them. Can't get an answer from ORR.

What's happening right now is that faciltiies that were already handling unaccompanied minors are now also getting an influx of kids taken from their parents. But those facilities tend to be for kids aged 10 - 18 years. But there's no existing capacity to deal with little kids, bc no one sends a 2 yo unaccompanied. Now, bc we've taken 2yo's and 4yo's from their parents we have to care for them and no one, as far as I can tell, has any idea how that is being done and by whom.

This is an extremely urgent matter for obvious reasons.
posted by zachlipton at 3:50 PM on June 18 [72 favorites]


I finally got sufficiently inspired to make my first campaign donation of 2018, and it went to Beto O'Rourke. I held off for a long time because I was unsure who to donate to or how much, and my ADHD-addled brain doesn't want to commit to anything it hasn't done a thousand times before, so it makes up excuses like that. I hope everyone reading this will take a moment to donate to some cause they believe in, even if it's just $1, because once you've taken the first step, no matter how small, the next step is always easier.
posted by shponglespore at 3:56 PM on June 18 [21 favorites]


> Now, bc we've taken 2yo's and 4yo's from their parents we have to care for them and no one, as far as I can tell, has any idea how that is being done and by whom. This is an extremely urgent matter for obvious reasons.

I weep for my adopted country.
posted by RedOrGreen at 3:59 PM on June 18 [5 favorites]


U.S. Senator Lisa Murkowski (R-AK) released the following statement on the practice of separating children and parents at the U.S. border.

“The time is now for the White House to end the cruel, tragic separations of families. They are not consistent with our values. The thousands of children taken from their parents and families must be reunited as quickly as possible and be treated humanely while immigration proceedings are pending. ‎I am troubled that those seeking asylum are being turned away before they even have the opportunity to file their papers. While I have said that this is a policy discussion that needs to be had, in my view we should not have a policy designed to separate families, particularly mothers with young children, without a clear process and focus on the needs of the children. To blame previous administrations for a wrong committed today is not acceptable. The Attorney General and Secretary of Homeland Security should make the call today. If the administration does not fix this and fast, we in Congress must.”

Since this actually puts some responsibility on the Executive Branch it's the closest thing yet to an acceptable statement from a GOP senator.
posted by Rust Moranis at 4:09 PM on June 18 [69 favorites]


Sanders doesn't need to return. Ann Coulter's got it covered.
posted by urbanwhaleshark at 4:11 PM on June 18 [3 favorites]


(although Murkowski still hasn't signed on to the bill so I guess that makes her statement useless but...not fully disgusting?)
posted by Rust Moranis at 4:12 PM on June 18 [9 favorites]




How bad was that performance? When even Cillizza...

Chris Cillizza
Well, that was a total disaster for Nielsen and the White House
posted by chris24 at 4:19 PM on June 18 [16 favorites]


About the status of babies, Rep. Joaquin Castro (D-TX) was on MSNBC just now reporting that he was allowed into an "infant room" at a detention center -- the interview was happening in Brownsville, so I'm not sure where the facility is located. He said one eight month old infant there has been away from her mother for a month; there was also a one-year-old who had been detained alone for a month.
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:31 PM on June 18 [36 favorites]


there was also a one-year-old who had been detained alone for a month.

That kid will have an attachment disorder for the rest of their life. It's a crime against humanity.
posted by Rust Moranis at 4:34 PM on June 18 [128 favorites]


Prepare to protest, prepare to march, prepare to strike, prepare to fight. The monsters of our time have crossed so many lines before and so fast that we have been scrambling to react, resist, refuse. I didn't think there would be a moment like this where people were finally galvanized: these fascists won't be drummed out by petitions or persuasion, the mueller investigations and midterm elections will only help if they have the force of the will of the people behind them. Save up some food, memorize a phone number, switch off your bill autopay, get ready for civil disobedience. There is no painfree way to rewind to the status quo ante: a few donations and some letters to the editor won't put this country back together again.

So yes: sign petitions but also make protest signs
So yes: call your politicians
but also call your friends and allies
So yes: donate to campaigns but also start a strike fund
So yes: resist but also FIGHT BACK

every one of these child camps has public roads leading to it: block them.
every one of these child camps has workers in it, follow them home and take the non-violent protest to their homes
every one of these republicans have offices back home, make working there impossible.
This system requires that most people politely go about their business, doing their jobs and not rocking the boat

Do to these monsters what they do to planned parenthood, what they do to gay marriages and gay funerals. Hound them, don't let them hide from their crimes.
posted by Anchorite_of_Palgrave at 4:41 PM on June 18 [61 favorites]


How is this allowed? US citizens are being stopped en masse, without probable cause, and asked for their papers? This is what we've come to?

In 2001, some dudes crashed planes into buildings and ever since we've reacted in weird and insane ways. Any land area within 100 miles of the US border is now subject to being searched like this. No one seemed to care to fight it when it became a thing and now that it's being used for evil it's too late.
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 4:46 PM on June 18 [40 favorites]


Anywhere within 100 miles of a border is under jurisdiction of the CBP and - suprise! - the coastline is considered a border.

"Coast" includes the Great Lakes, btw. The entire state of Michigan is within the 100-mile "papers, please" jurisdiction.
posted by FelliniBlank at 4:54 PM on June 18 [11 favorites]


Are there mass protests scheduled? Who can organize this? I'm talking mass protests + general strike. No one gets to work until these kids are reunited with their parents.
posted by MisantropicPainforest at 4:57 PM on June 18 [2 favorites]


Are there mass protests scheduled? Who can organize this? I'm talking mass protests + general strike. No one gets to work until these kids are reunited with their parents.

A nationwide protest for (I think) June 30 is about to be announced tonight at around 8 pm.
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:00 PM on June 18 [4 favorites]


June *30th* ? It's June 18th. WHY IS EVERYTHING TAKING SO LONG? AAAAAAAA.. Where's the fucking-fuck thread...
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 5:03 PM on June 18 [9 favorites]


Are there mass protests scheduled? Who can organize this? I'm talking mass protests + general strike. No one gets to work until these kids are reunited with their parents.

The best and fastest way to get something done is to get your friends and family to go down to the nearest gov't office and start protesting.
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 5:04 PM on June 18 [2 favorites]


If you'd like to tell the Census Bureau not to include a citizenship question on the census, you can submit your comments for the record (it can really make a difference, both to show that people care and oppose the policy, and later if the policy is challenged in court if the agency hasn't done enough to take comments into consideration).

(Via the Population Industry Association and MeFi's favorite librarian.)
posted by zachlipton at 5:06 PM on June 18 [17 favorites]


Wheeeeeee

Daniel Dale
Breaking: Trump announces he plans to retaliate against China's retaliation against his $50 billion in tariffs, asking his officials to identify another $200 billion worth of goods to hit with tariffs.
- Trump says he'll find another $200 billion in Chinese goods to hit with tariffs if China retaliates against this $200 billion in tariffs, which come on top of the original $50 billion.
posted by chris24 at 5:07 PM on June 18 [20 favorites]


It will be interesting to see if his supposed masters let him pull that off.
posted by Harry Caul at 5:10 PM on June 18


WaPo, Trump defiant as crisis grows over family separation at the border
Trump has been closely monitoring the coverage, but has been suspicious of it, telling associates he believes the media cherry-picks the most dramatic images and stories to portray his administration in a negative light, according to one senior administration official.

The images in the media contrast with more positive photos Trump’s aides have shown the president depicting detained children smiling, playing video games and exercising outside, said the official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to be candid.
...
Trump considers immigration a winning issue for him politically, advisers said. The president has complained repeatedly in recent months that he looks “weak” on border enforcement and has been concerned his base could turn on him for not being tougher, according to a senior administration official.

A second administration official said Trump is in agreement with Miller, a hard line influence on the administration, in believing, “If we’re having an argument on immigration, we always win because that’s our ground, no matter what the nuances of the argument are.”

White House officials have said there is no comprehensive strategy at play. “What’s the end game?” another senior administration official asked.

At a meeting with Sen. Richard C. Shelby (R-Ala.) and Sen. Shelley Moore Capito (R-W.Va.) at the White House on Monday, Trump re-upped his threat to shutdown the government in September if he doesn’t get money for the border wall, according to two people familiar with the meeting. Trump told the senators he was willing to take such a drastic action, these people said, and wanted his wall funding along with strong border security measures.
...
The White House distributed more than 3,000 words of talking points to Republican allies under the headline, “Congressional Democrats’ Policies Are Responsible for the Border Crisis and Family Separations.” The talking points — which included repeated and false claims and claimed that children were being treated well, calling reports of inhumane treatment “bunk” — were largely greeted with amazement, according to senior Republican aides.
posted by zachlipton at 5:11 PM on June 18 [15 favorites]


*hums Chrysostom's theme song*

@Taniel: #CA48 flips: Harvey Rouda takes the lead over Hans Keirstead for the very first since Election Night, by... *40* votes. (This is to determine Rep. Rohrabacher's opponent.) There are mostly only provisional ballots left to count, & these have leaned heavily toward Rouda.
posted by zachlipton at 5:13 PM on June 18 [15 favorites]


June *30th* ? It's June 18th. WHY IS EVERYTHING TAKING SO LONG?

Because unlike the Muslim ban that was centered on airports, which are everywhere, this happens in southern border states more than elsewhere - people in other states need time to mobilize if they're going to blockade roads or follow people around with cameras.

There are some kinds of holding facilities in other states, but we don't know where they are, and they're often not easily accessible, especially by public transit. And "handful of people waving signs at local gov't offices" won't make change happen, especially if your local gov't offices strongly disapprove of these actions. (I work a few blocks from Feinstein's office... showing up there with a posterboard sign won't fix anything.)

Geography's working against us on this one - concentration camps are always held away from cities, away from suburbia, out in uncomfortable places where not many people live and it's not easy to visit.

We can protest in the meantime, but getting huge numbers together for this won't happen overnight.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 5:16 PM on June 18 [25 favorites]


Because unlike the Muslim ban that was centered on airports, which are everywhere, this happens in southern border states more than elsewhere - people in other states need time to mobilize if they're going to blockade roads or follow people around with cameras.

It's not so much that international airports are everywhere (since they're really not except in populous states) but that there are many of them in super-large and blue cities or cities with large blue contingents. And they're easily accessible, visible, and known locations. You can mobilize a giant crowd of people very fast in those circumstances.

I hate the delay on this too, but for those of us who can't hop on the bus or into the car and go without making arrangements first, this does enable me to attend a protest in a major city several hours away, which I could not do on short notice.
posted by FelliniBlank at 5:26 PM on June 18 [3 favorites]


Unless the plan is to storm the detention centers and break the detainees out; there's little point in travelling. A general strike, on the other hand.... That's everywhere, and it affects everyone, and they want it to go away quickly.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 5:26 PM on June 18 [7 favorites]


Let us all take the time to remember that these brave patriots who insist their 2nd amendment right to bear arms insures their ability to stand valiantly against government tyranny

HAVE taken up arms to:
  • Defend some dude's ability to graze on land without paying fees
  • Walk into a pizza place to investigate a thinly documented conspiracy story about child trafficking
HAVE NOT taken up arms to:
  • Assemble in a former Walmart parking lot to protest the documented, with video, containment of children in chain-link cages
I mean, forget even expecting them to go to those detainment centers en-masse and force their way in. That doesn't seem all that out of line with setting up your sniper station on an overpass but whatever - just show the fuck up if you're so gung-ho on saving kids. For bonus points, don't let any employees back in the building. They can leave but not go in. Those for-hire sleaze will hit the bricks and call in sick the rest of the week.
posted by phearlez at 5:33 PM on June 18 [43 favorites]


I just realized that pizzagate was the Trump's Mirror omen for all this. I feel sick.
posted by Westringia F. at 5:39 PM on June 18 [30 favorites]


just show the fuck up if you're so gung-ho on saving kids

Trick question, the nonexistent pizzagate kids were white. The real asylum seekers aren't.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:41 PM on June 18 [14 favorites]




As mentioned above, nationwide protests June 30th, with information to be available on familiesbelongtogether.org (just a sign-up form right now).

And here's confirmation from Lomi Kriel at the Houston Chronicle (who you should follow if you're on twitter and interested in immigration issues; she's very good at getting to the bottom of the legal situation behind immigration stories) that first-time illegal entry (a misdemeanor) often results in a sentence of time served or a couple days in prison (it's a maximum of 6 months), especially with children.

Sec. Nielsen said today that "If an American were to commit a crime anywhere in the United States, they would go to jail and they would be separated from their family. This is not a controversial idea." Which, first, it should be a controversial idea, because we do that way too damn often and it's bad, but in this case, it's not a crime people are generally being jailed over. And none of that justifies putting parents through bureaucratic hell to try to even find out where their children are after they get out or deporting parents and leaving their children to navigate a separate legal process by themselves.
posted by zachlipton at 5:45 PM on June 18 [24 favorites]


Last year on the Crooked Media podcasts there was a common expression: "Trump always shoots the hostage." Of course, this was at the time used in the context of his ineptitude at deal-making. I think that given enough time, it's also literal.
posted by Rust Moranis at 5:45 PM on June 18 [10 favorites]


Nielsen should resign immediately, you can't spin this shit.
posted by Sphinx at 5:52 PM on June 18 [17 favorites]


One reason there isn't a general strike (or any other large-scale action) is that large-scale non-violent actions are rarely the product of spontaneous demands of individuals' consciences. They may look that way, they may even deliberately be presented that way, but they are almost universally the product of a lot of earlier labor-intensive organizing and strategizing. And for something as dramatic, costly, and difficult to organize as a general strike, they're probably the result of a lot of earlier organized action directed at the same policy. I mean, if you're wondering, "Why isn't there a general strike?" try asking yourself, "Why can't I convince five of my neighbors not to go to work for a week?" That's not a defeatist question, by the way, but rather a way of identifying the things that a social movement would need to do and provide before it could call a general strike.

It's not like a bunch of individual people get really mad and a general strike just happens.
posted by This time is different. at 5:53 PM on June 18 [49 favorites]


Sec. Nielsen said today that "If an American were to commit a crime anywhere in the United States, they would go to jail and they would be separated from their family.

I plan to revisit this quote often when 45 is indicted, or Ivanka, or don jr.
posted by OHenryPacey at 5:54 PM on June 18 [44 favorites]


It's not like a bunch of individual people get really mad and a general strike just happens.

Yep. I can show up to protest. I can take days off to protest. I can drive to detention centers and protest. I can't afford to strike from my job unpaid for more than a week. And I'm a single person living alone. It's even harder for families. Maybe I should be willing to not be able to pay my rent to stop this heinous shit, but I would need to know I'm not the only one. I'd need to know that my small contribution would have some kind of effect. It's the shittiest of moral and ethical calculations to have to make.
posted by runcibleshaw at 5:58 PM on June 18 [31 favorites]


Sec. Nielsen said today that "If an American were to commit a crime anywhere in the United States, they would go to jail and they would be separated from their family. This is not a controversial idea."

This happens after a trial and a conviction, not on first accusation of a crime. And children thus separated from their parents are sent to the care of approved foster care homes, OR to family members whenever those are available. Parents separated from their children because of crimes have a right to know where those children are being held, and the right to contact with them.

None of that process was followed here.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 6:06 PM on June 18 [100 favorites]


Apologies if this has been addressed: can anyone point me to some advice on what a US citizen residing abroad (my wife) can do to protest/help with respect to the separation of kids from their parents?
posted by dhruva at 6:08 PM on June 18 [3 favorites]


Thank you. Well-stated.
posted by greermahoney at 6:09 PM on June 18 [1 favorite]


dhruva: my partner's in the same position, she's donated to https://www.raicestexas.org/
posted by mbo at 6:18 PM on June 18 [8 favorites]


I keep having to tell people on Twitter about that time I got arrested and was released from the pokey the next morning. I got nabbed for a misdemeanor that actually carries max penalties quite a bit more severe than an illegal entry charge. I got a letter in the mail (at my house, where I was chilling comfortably, studying for finals) a few days later stating my court date a couple weeks later. I was not separated from anyone except for a single, highly unpleasant night spent in the county lock-up. (I went to court, pled guilty, had the good fortune to be white and well-educated, and got a slap on the wrist.)

So yeah, no, you do not get arrested and then immediately have your children confiscated. We do still have due process in this country, at least for the time being.

The next time we have a Dem majority in a house of Congress, I want hearings upon hearings upon hearings about this. And then when those are over? More hearings.
posted by soren_lorensen at 6:22 PM on June 18 [68 favorites]


It;s pretty clear at this point that targetting Trump properties is the way to go, if there are any in your country. A long line of people at the concierge desk coming to lodge a customer complaint about a bad experience, in particular about abysmal accomodations given to a child, with each complainant taking as long as possible to explain an incident before it becomes clear that the incident happened at a different Trump "hotel" and the child is an involuntary guest. This could be scaled up for a mighty long time.
posted by ocschwar at 6:23 PM on June 18 [87 favorites]


You can also donate to Innovation Law Lab who is supplying legal aid to those detained in Sheridan OR: https://innovationlawlab.org/donate/

Also any portland mefites, if you can't make it to Sheridan there's a vigil at the ICE center in PDX tonight, 4310 SW Macadam.
posted by nixon's meatloaf at 6:26 PM on June 18 [8 favorites]


Follow up with parties sitting down at Trump restaurants, looking at the menus, looking at the menus, looking at them somre more, you get the idea.
posted by ocschwar at 6:32 PM on June 18 [11 favorites]


I was thinking to myself this morning, "you know, how come Fox haven't tried to divide and conquer white people using kids in cages as a wedge issue".
Tucker Carlson: "This is one of those moments that tells you everything about our ruling class. They care far more about foreigners than about their own people."
Turns out I just had to wait until 8pm.

I knew they were going to use these kids as bait. I fucking knew it. But I'll take it anyway. To quote Bill Kristol (thank you very fucking much you bow-tie wearing dipshit, I'm quoting Bill Fucking Kristol):
[I]f the idea we should strive to treat foreigners decently is to be an object of scorn, I'll wear that scorn as a badge of honor.
Because that's this timeline. Bill Kristol, the Iraq War's biggest cheerleader, is reasonable and I'm agreeing with him.
posted by Definitely Not Sean Spicer at 6:39 PM on June 18 [38 favorites]




Politico, Nielsen becomes the face of Trump's border separations
White House chief of staff John Kelly advised Nielsen against doing the press conference, but she charged ahead anyway, according to a senior administration official. She placed blame for some of the heart-rending scenes captured by the news media squarely on Congress and charged that kids are being warehoused because lawmakers have shirked their responsibility to close loopholes in current immigration law.
...
But Kelly’s status in the White House has changed in recent months, and he and the president are now seen as barely tolerating one another. According to four people close to Kelly, the former Marine general has largely yielded his role as the enforcer in the West Wing as his relationship with Trump has soured. While Kelly himself once believed he stood between Trump and chaos, he has told at least one person close to him that he may as well let the president do what he wants, even if it leads to impeachment – at least this chapter of American history would come to a close.

In recent months, his Secret Service detail has often been spotted standing outside the gym in the Eisenhower Executive Office Building in the middle of the day – and White House officials who pass it on the way to meetings view his late morning workouts as an indication of him having thrown in the towel on trying to have any control inside the West Wing.
I know everyone is just saying random stuff about each other to cause chaos and shift blame, but that's a hell of a thing to have attributed to the White House Chief of Staff.
posted by zachlipton at 6:46 PM on June 18 [68 favorites]


Just to offer a little slight bit of goodish-news in the midst of all this crud, I offer you this article from my distant acquaintance Daniel Schulman from Demand Progress, detailing some of the things that have happened in the legislative appropriations process. In short, this is Congress deciding about paying for shit regarding their own goings-ons and other housekeeping sort of stuff.

The good stuff in there is a study on pay inequities (good for women and PoC staff), money to pay interns (which is an impediment to getting diverse folks staffing congress because only people who can afford to work at cost can take these gigs), and working to fix the child care situation for congressional staff. There's other good stuff in there from a data nerd/transparency standpoint but it's a little more inside baseball.
posted by phearlez at 6:57 PM on June 18 [5 favorites]


How bad is Fox News? It's embarrassed Seth MacFarlane (CW: large close-up of MacFarlane's face)
posted by oneswellfoop at 7:11 PM on June 18 [2 favorites]


CBS News: New child concentration camp favorability poll, again with somewhat different results.

Overall disapprove: 67%
R: 36% approve, 39% disapprove

Much lower approval for Republicans than the other 2 polls; and overall that's by far the most inconsistent variable of these three polls. It's like we're watching the Republican brain thrashing in cognitive dissonance death-agonies.
posted by Rust Moranis at 7:22 PM on June 18 [23 favorites]


Much lower approval for Republicans than the other 2 polls; and overall that's by far the most inconsistent variable of these three polls. It's like we're watching the Republican brain thrashing in cognitive dissonance death-agonies.

Maybe this issue is so visceral that the media can't effectively Both Sides it away, which makes you wonder what polls would look like without most news outlets tripping over themselves to normalize evil on other topics.
posted by jason_steakums at 7:30 PM on June 18 [35 favorites]


Someone posted the video upthread today, but Ann Coulter calling the crying migrant children "child actors" is IMHO is so unbelievably vulgar, despicable, disgusting, ... an entire thesaurus of synonyms for "abominable" do not even begin to describe it ...
posted by StrawberryPie at 7:49 PM on June 18 [19 favorites]


Then wait until you see Laura Ingraham describing these facilities as "basically summer camps" or boarding schools, citing this story, which discusses the trauma of a mother being told she had 10 minutes to say goodbye to her children. Here's video and a transcript.

Later in her show (no video of this yet):
Sessions says families must enter through ports of entry if they don't want to be separated, even though the administration is *turning people away* from ports of entry
Sessions says this