Please give this post five stars or I could be banned
June 22, 2018 9:07 AM Subscribe
Many chain restaurants have tabletop tablets that let restaurant customers rate their servers. But what happens when you give your waiter 4 stars ("satisfied") instead of 5 ("highly satisfied")? Their hours can get cut, and they can be moved to less lucrative roles in the restaurant, which can lower their weekly paycheck by hundreds of dollars. What about when you rate an Uber driver 4 stars? The driver can be put on probation, and eventually deactivated. If the service wasn't perfect, what is the morally right thing for the consumer to do? (Spoiler: You rate drivers 5 stars. Always. Unless they truly, royally suck.) (previously)
Uber will now let you rate your driver mid-trip
Uber will now let you rate your driver mid-trip
After working retail I would never give any employee anything less than a perfect rating on every metric were I to fill out a comment card or online survey about my experience. Even if they had, say, punched me in the face or stolen my car. Still perfect rating. Balanced against the psychic torture of them being required to smile in the face of a Capitalism-deluded humanity for 8-10 hours a day, even an employee interaction that resulted in my hospitalization would be, on balance, stellar treatment.
posted by lefty lucky cat at 9:11 AM on June 22, 2018 [43 favorites]
posted by lefty lucky cat at 9:11 AM on June 22, 2018 [43 favorites]
Nobody’s perfect, but you damn well better be anyway.
posted by mellow seas at 9:13 AM on June 22, 2018 [8 favorites]
posted by mellow seas at 9:13 AM on June 22, 2018 [8 favorites]
5 stars and a generous cash tip, every time.
(Except that time I wasn't prepared with cash, I'm so sorry Ahmed!)
posted by Emmy Rae at 9:16 AM on June 22, 2018 [3 favorites]
(Except that time I wasn't prepared with cash, I'm so sorry Ahmed!)
posted by Emmy Rae at 9:16 AM on June 22, 2018 [3 favorites]
We recently got a new car. The salesman, after all the paperwork was signed and done, pleaded with us to give him all 10s on the rating sheet. If not, his pay got docked. What is the point of having a survey when the results are all coerced? All of these customer satisfaction surveys are used to belittle and exploit the workers and not to get real feedback from customers. What happens if we refuse to fill them out? Period.
posted by njohnson23 at 9:16 AM on June 22, 2018 [82 favorites]
posted by njohnson23 at 9:16 AM on June 22, 2018 [82 favorites]
This week's episode of Bubble is about this ... a little bit.
But yeah, always five stars. Rating systems are completely useless for a host of reasons, no sense using one to penalize somebody who's doing a thankless job. (I mean, unless they actually did punch you in the face.)
posted by uncleozzy at 9:19 AM on June 22, 2018 [3 favorites]
But yeah, always five stars. Rating systems are completely useless for a host of reasons, no sense using one to penalize somebody who's doing a thankless job. (I mean, unless they actually did punch you in the face.)
posted by uncleozzy at 9:19 AM on June 22, 2018 [3 favorites]
What happens if we refuse to fill them out? Period.
Having watched my wife struggle with this during her time as a retail store manager: they get dinged for that too.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:19 AM on June 22, 2018 [19 favorites]
Having watched my wife struggle with this during her time as a retail store manager: they get dinged for that too.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 9:19 AM on June 22, 2018 [19 favorites]
What if, I know this is a crazy question, we rated people and services honestly, but then required employers not to treat people like disposable cogs?
posted by corb at 9:19 AM on June 22, 2018 [57 favorites]
posted by corb at 9:19 AM on June 22, 2018 [57 favorites]
I only recently started worrying about the cash tip vs tipping via an app because does it then show to providers on their side of the app that I've never tipped? Or is there something on the provider side where they can say "tips well in cash"? what an ordeal the future is for us all
posted by poffin boffin at 9:20 AM on June 22, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by poffin boffin at 9:20 AM on June 22, 2018 [3 favorites]
If you refuse to fill them out, you cede the field to the guy who likes to put 5 bucks on the table and remove one for each perceived mistake.
I don't understand how a good manager would want this useless metric but I guess I just answered my own question.
posted by Typhoon Jim at 9:21 AM on June 22, 2018 [4 favorites]
I don't understand how a good manager would want this useless metric but I guess I just answered my own question.
posted by Typhoon Jim at 9:21 AM on June 22, 2018 [4 favorites]
This stuff really annoys the crap out of me. First of all, won't it eventually result in worse service as everyone just rates everything beyond "this person spat in my face and/or put me in mortal danger" five stars?
Second, it's just...why the hell can't our society accept the idea that three stars (or whatever its' equivalent might be) is perfectly acceptable, and then give bonuses for four and five? Hasn't it ever occurred to our overlords at Uber or Big Restaurant or Airbnb or Big Corporation That Makes Customers Fill Out Surveys that if everyone is five-stars or excellent or ten out of ten or whatever then those ratings have no meaning?
But I guess abusing workers is really more important than customer experience. The corporation is always right.
posted by breakin' the law at 9:21 AM on June 22, 2018 [33 favorites]
Second, it's just...why the hell can't our society accept the idea that three stars (or whatever its' equivalent might be) is perfectly acceptable, and then give bonuses for four and five? Hasn't it ever occurred to our overlords at Uber or Big Restaurant or Airbnb or Big Corporation That Makes Customers Fill Out Surveys that if everyone is five-stars or excellent or ten out of ten or whatever then those ratings have no meaning?
But I guess abusing workers is really more important than customer experience. The corporation is always right.
posted by breakin' the law at 9:21 AM on June 22, 2018 [33 favorites]
When you are on the phone with a customer service rep in some big call center, always say yes when they ask if you want to take a survey at the end of your call. Then rate the CSR the highest available in each category. And don't drag out the call unnecessarily, especially with chit chat, they are reviewed based on their call times.
The only time I rate someone less than perfect on their job is when they should not have that job. E.g. a driver that runs red lights on purpose, a waiter who calls someone a f-g, a CSR who screams at me.
posted by AFABulous at 9:21 AM on June 22, 2018 [17 favorites]
The only time I rate someone less than perfect on their job is when they should not have that job. E.g. a driver that runs red lights on purpose, a waiter who calls someone a f-g, a CSR who screams at me.
posted by AFABulous at 9:21 AM on June 22, 2018 [17 favorites]
required employers not to
this anti-business attitude stifles job growth
posted by uncleozzy at 9:22 AM on June 22, 2018 [6 favorites]
this anti-business attitude stifles job growth
posted by uncleozzy at 9:22 AM on June 22, 2018 [6 favorites]
We should replace all of these with one question:
"Did [person] perform [service] in accordance in accordance with your expectations of [service]? Yes/No." Uber driver got you to your destination without making you fear for your life? Waiter gave you your food and was polite about it? Then you answer "yes." That's it. No grade inflation, no five-star bullshit, it's clear enough that if someone answers no then probably the employee screwed up somehow. (Although an occasional "no" still shouldn't be held against the employee.)
posted by breakin' the law at 9:30 AM on June 22, 2018 [7 favorites]
"Did [person] perform [service] in accordance in accordance with your expectations of [service]? Yes/No." Uber driver got you to your destination without making you fear for your life? Waiter gave you your food and was polite about it? Then you answer "yes." That's it. No grade inflation, no five-star bullshit, it's clear enough that if someone answers no then probably the employee screwed up somehow. (Although an occasional "no" still shouldn't be held against the employee.)
posted by breakin' the law at 9:30 AM on June 22, 2018 [7 favorites]
Jesus. I generally don't rate anything on a survey as 5 stars unless it's truly spectacular, just because I personally am not particularly comfortable with huge superlatives. That's totally on me and not on the organization being surveyed, but now learning that I might have damaged someone's job prospects makes me feel even worse. And now if I rate 5 stars I'm going to feel like a robotic Pollyanna, which is, I suppose, exactly what the Overlords want.
posted by dlugoczaj at 9:31 AM on June 22, 2018 [15 favorites]
posted by dlugoczaj at 9:31 AM on June 22, 2018 [15 favorites]
I would think some folks had heard of Campbell's law but hey.
posted by Typhoon Jim at 9:31 AM on June 22, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by Typhoon Jim at 9:31 AM on June 22, 2018 [3 favorites]
"Did [person] perform [service] in accordance in accordance with your expectations of [service]? Yes/No."
The problem is my expectation of service includes things that are irritating and I wouldn't recommend other people to but I also don't want someone to get fired for. Like, political rants for Uber drivers, or the waiter tried to upsell me on stuff which may even be part of their job but I still find irritating.
posted by corb at 9:34 AM on June 22, 2018 [5 favorites]
The problem is my expectation of service includes things that are irritating and I wouldn't recommend other people to but I also don't want someone to get fired for. Like, political rants for Uber drivers, or the waiter tried to upsell me on stuff which may even be part of their job but I still find irritating.
posted by corb at 9:34 AM on June 22, 2018 [5 favorites]
Yeah, I agree with the intentions behind this, and giving someone a 5-star rating helps that person in the short term, but it doesn't make the underlying problem go away. Uber doesn't require drivers to meet a threshold of 4.7 stars (or whatever) because they think that number has some objective value. They do it to force drivers to compete against each other to climb to the top of the ranking. If more people give out 5-star ratings, it just means the bar moves up to 4.8 or 4.9.
(In particular, if all the thoughtful, considerate customers decide to give the same rating to everyone, the only remaining factor to differentiate drivers -- and the criterion that determines their livelihood -- will be how good they are at putting up with dickheads.)
This seems like a situation that demands collective, not just individual, action. Don't support companies that impose this kind of arbitrary threshold, and encourage regulations that give workers the right to appeal unfair decisions. Is an "Uber drivers' union" out of the realm of possibility?
posted by teraflop at 9:35 AM on June 22, 2018 [20 favorites]
(In particular, if all the thoughtful, considerate customers decide to give the same rating to everyone, the only remaining factor to differentiate drivers -- and the criterion that determines their livelihood -- will be how good they are at putting up with dickheads.)
This seems like a situation that demands collective, not just individual, action. Don't support companies that impose this kind of arbitrary threshold, and encourage regulations that give workers the right to appeal unfair decisions. Is an "Uber drivers' union" out of the realm of possibility?
posted by teraflop at 9:35 AM on June 22, 2018 [20 favorites]
So what you're saying is a. I must give highest ratings for this meaningless metric or someone loses their job/money AND b. I must not abstain from participating in this meaningless metric or someone loses their job/money.
Jesus Christ. How much money/time is spent nickel and dime-ing service people that could go to, say, better food? The fuck.
**stews angrily**
posted by emjaybee at 9:35 AM on June 22, 2018 [33 favorites]
Jesus Christ. How much money/time is spent nickel and dime-ing service people that could go to, say, better food? The fuck.
**stews angrily**
posted by emjaybee at 9:35 AM on June 22, 2018 [33 favorites]
How does this article not mention WHY it’s 100% or nothing without mentioning Net Promoter? NPS is THE reason for all of this mess. Customer Satisfaction (yes/no, 👍/👎) is a better and easier metric, but it doesn’t generate a score like NPS, which organizations prefer so they can pit employees against each other.
posted by sleeping bear at 9:36 AM on June 22, 2018 [14 favorites]
posted by sleeping bear at 9:36 AM on June 22, 2018 [14 favorites]
The ratings will have no meaning to the business when the ratings aren't used for finding businesses to patronize. Using rating services to find restaurants, or whatever, makes the ratings meaningful to the owners.
Denying patronage to businesses that use these kinds of rating devices would be a start, ignoring web rating sites and systems would go further, but there's always going to be people who want to rate, some for legit reasons, many because their self entitled assholes who want to penalize anyone who doesn't accede to their every whim.
Still, making it clear to the company or owner the surveys themselves are costing them business would be a good first step to breaking this idiotic system.
posted by gusottertrout at 9:36 AM on June 22, 2018 [1 favorite]
Denying patronage to businesses that use these kinds of rating devices would be a start, ignoring web rating sites and systems would go further, but there's always going to be people who want to rate, some for legit reasons, many because their self entitled assholes who want to penalize anyone who doesn't accede to their every whim.
Still, making it clear to the company or owner the surveys themselves are costing them business would be a good first step to breaking this idiotic system.
posted by gusottertrout at 9:36 AM on June 22, 2018 [1 favorite]
I worked in a jewellery store chain in the UK that was bought by a US company, and started rolling out its US customer service requirements (it was aggressively friendly. most customers hated it) . Anyway, with every receipt we had to ask the customer to fill in a feedback form which included rating the service. Anything less than an 8 out of 10? Counted as a failure. Not enough people leaving feedback and mentioning you specifically *by name*? You are also failing. We were ranked on how our feedback was, and how much feedback we got, and every month we had an individual employee performance meeting with the manager to figure out how to a) sell more insurance and b) get more feedback. I was really good at the part of my job that involved figuring out what the customer wanted and giving it to them, but Not Good at making people buy watch insurance and fill out stupid internet forms so I was constantly below the 'level required'. It was a big part of why I quit.
I'm still bitter that part of my "performance" relied entirely on strangers being coerced into filling out feedback the correct way.
posted by stillnocturnal at 9:37 AM on June 22, 2018 [16 favorites]
I'm still bitter that part of my "performance" relied entirely on strangers being coerced into filling out feedback the correct way.
posted by stillnocturnal at 9:37 AM on June 22, 2018 [16 favorites]
NPS is a scourge on customer service jobs.
posted by sleeping bear at 9:40 AM on June 22, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by sleeping bear at 9:40 AM on June 22, 2018 [3 favorites]
We recently got a new car. The salesman, after all the paperwork was signed and done, pleaded with us to give him all 10s on the rating sheet
This is the one I don't get. The relationship with a car salesperson is literally adversarial. Is there a Muggr app to rate a street robbery?
posted by uncleozzy at 9:40 AM on June 22, 2018 [28 favorites]
This is the one I don't get. The relationship with a car salesperson is literally adversarial. Is there a Muggr app to rate a street robbery?
posted by uncleozzy at 9:40 AM on June 22, 2018 [28 favorites]
God I hate those surveys. I'm going to give the rating I feel is appropriate using the scale provided. If anything less than perfect means failure then don't give me that scale to use. Give me OK vs Not OK. But don't punish the employee and don't make them beg me for ratings because your survey system sucks and you see them as a disposable resource.
posted by downtohisturtles at 9:41 AM on June 22, 2018 [5 favorites]
posted by downtohisturtles at 9:41 AM on June 22, 2018 [5 favorites]
or the waiter tried to upsell me on stuff which may even be part of their job but I still find irritating
It always bothers me when people complain about salespeople following them around a store, asking if they are finding everything OK, making suggestions about great deals and new products, explaining how great the service plan is, etc. I used to work retail. WE KNOW you don't like us doing that, WE DON'T LIKE IT either, but we GET FIRED if we don't do it. I mean, I don't have so much sympathy that I am going to buy your $2 protection plan on the $10 used video game I am purchasing (though I know you probably get dinged for every time you don't sell one), but I always try extra hard to be patient and gracious about it. I don't complete surveys as often as I should, but whenever I do, I give people top scores unless they were actively rude or did not perform the basic duties of the job.
posted by Rock Steady at 9:42 AM on June 22, 2018 [7 favorites]
It always bothers me when people complain about salespeople following them around a store, asking if they are finding everything OK, making suggestions about great deals and new products, explaining how great the service plan is, etc. I used to work retail. WE KNOW you don't like us doing that, WE DON'T LIKE IT either, but we GET FIRED if we don't do it. I mean, I don't have so much sympathy that I am going to buy your $2 protection plan on the $10 used video game I am purchasing (though I know you probably get dinged for every time you don't sell one), but I always try extra hard to be patient and gracious about it. I don't complete surveys as often as I should, but whenever I do, I give people top scores unless they were actively rude or did not perform the basic duties of the job.
posted by Rock Steady at 9:42 AM on June 22, 2018 [7 favorites]
The problem is my expectation of service includes things that are irritating and I wouldn't recommend other people to but I also don't want someone to get fired for. Like, political rants for Uber drivers, or the waiter tried to upsell me on stuff which may even be part of their job but I still find irritating.
Yeah, I tried to word it in such a way as to make it clear that the question would specifically refer to the service being provided (driving, serving food, whatever) and not any add-ons or idiosyncratic preferences. That said you are correct that there's no reliable way to weed out that sort of thing.
I actually like your solution, corb, but if we can't have that then doing away with these silly rating systems is at least an improvement
posted by breakin' the law at 9:44 AM on June 22, 2018
Yeah, I tried to word it in such a way as to make it clear that the question would specifically refer to the service being provided (driving, serving food, whatever) and not any add-ons or idiosyncratic preferences. That said you are correct that there's no reliable way to weed out that sort of thing.
I actually like your solution, corb, but if we can't have that then doing away with these silly rating systems is at least an improvement
posted by breakin' the law at 9:44 AM on June 22, 2018
It's not just customer service jobs. NPS is also used to rate websites and media content. And no, a good enough score of six or seven out of ten isn't enough. It has to be eight (or maybe) nine to count. I couldn't believe that until I heard it from a company I'm doing some freelance work for and was required to take a seminar about NPS. Boy was that an eye-opening experience and not in a good way.
posted by sardonyx at 9:45 AM on June 22, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by sardonyx at 9:45 AM on June 22, 2018 [4 favorites]
WE KNOW you don't like us doing that, WE DON'T LIKE IT either, but we GET FIRED if we don't do it.
And this pulls me back to "the real problem is companies". Because if someone can tell me upfront "I am required to do this as part of my job" I will just tune it out and nod, but it's literally impossible for me to tell the difference between someone who is being an aggressive salesman as part of their job or someone who is being an aggressive salesman because they are a dick, especially when companies will always sacrifice people they see as disposable cogs.
For example: there is a canvassing organization in my city that I know trains canvassers to actually touch strangers to get them engaged, yet if anyone calls in with a complaint about the canvasser touching them, they fire the canvasser, without admitting it's their policy.
in short, burn it all down.
posted by corb at 9:48 AM on June 22, 2018 [42 favorites]
And this pulls me back to "the real problem is companies". Because if someone can tell me upfront "I am required to do this as part of my job" I will just tune it out and nod, but it's literally impossible for me to tell the difference between someone who is being an aggressive salesman as part of their job or someone who is being an aggressive salesman because they are a dick, especially when companies will always sacrifice people they see as disposable cogs.
For example: there is a canvassing organization in my city that I know trains canvassers to actually touch strangers to get them engaged, yet if anyone calls in with a complaint about the canvasser touching them, they fire the canvasser, without admitting it's their policy.
in short, burn it all down.
posted by corb at 9:48 AM on June 22, 2018 [42 favorites]
I am currently working a part-time retail job. Corporate changed the "customer focused" score keeping: rate blahblahblahstuffstuff from 0 to 7 (7 highest). If the service isn't rated 7's for everydamnthing (even if something's out of stock) then the average isn't 7. And scores below perfect 7 are averaged as 0. Right. ZERO. It doesn't take many 6's to bring the score way down.
Can you guess where employee moral is heading? Answer: to zero.
(and, corporate is worried about the itnernet taking over - good way to make that happen.)
posted by mightshould at 9:51 AM on June 22, 2018 [10 favorites]
Can you guess where employee moral is heading? Answer: to zero.
(and, corporate is worried about the itnernet taking over - good way to make that happen.)
posted by mightshould at 9:51 AM on June 22, 2018 [10 favorites]
NPS is also used to rate websites and media content.
Does this affect a specific designer/developer, or the marketing/whatever department? Because I am not going to give 10 stars to a garbage website with popups all over the place. How else can I send a message?
posted by AFABulous at 9:52 AM on June 22, 2018 [3 favorites]
Does this affect a specific designer/developer, or the marketing/whatever department? Because I am not going to give 10 stars to a garbage website with popups all over the place. How else can I send a message?
posted by AFABulous at 9:52 AM on June 22, 2018 [3 favorites]
Second, it's just...why the hell can't our society accept the idea that three stars (or whatever its' equivalent might be) is perfectly acceptable, and then give bonuses for four and five?
I think this is actually a big part of the problem: Because service workers aren't supposed to have a less-than-excellent mode. They aren't supposed to be people. "Above and beyond" for a service worker is on the order of "delivered a baby" or "disarmed a terrorist". This is the same problem with salaries and tips; if people don't respect the delivery driver as being an adult human who deserves a certain level of dignity, then they get rated as a machine, not as a person.
"Average performance is fine" doesn't really kick in until you hit the point of white-collar work, and even then often not until the better-paying salary kind of white-collar work. My coworkers can be average. Hell, my coworkers can be barely-competent and that's treated as fine. We can also be fifteen minutes late for work. We can, occasionally, call off without needing to worry about anybody else covering our shifts. My natural inclination, existing in this world, is to treat a 4 like "pretty good" and reserve 5s for excellence, but I have to fight my natural inclination whenever I'm dealing with anybody who seems likely to be making less than $50k a year. Mediocrity is a privilege.
posted by Sequence at 9:52 AM on June 22, 2018 [41 favorites]
I think this is actually a big part of the problem: Because service workers aren't supposed to have a less-than-excellent mode. They aren't supposed to be people. "Above and beyond" for a service worker is on the order of "delivered a baby" or "disarmed a terrorist". This is the same problem with salaries and tips; if people don't respect the delivery driver as being an adult human who deserves a certain level of dignity, then they get rated as a machine, not as a person.
"Average performance is fine" doesn't really kick in until you hit the point of white-collar work, and even then often not until the better-paying salary kind of white-collar work. My coworkers can be average. Hell, my coworkers can be barely-competent and that's treated as fine. We can also be fifteen minutes late for work. We can, occasionally, call off without needing to worry about anybody else covering our shifts. My natural inclination, existing in this world, is to treat a 4 like "pretty good" and reserve 5s for excellence, but I have to fight my natural inclination whenever I'm dealing with anybody who seems likely to be making less than $50k a year. Mediocrity is a privilege.
posted by Sequence at 9:52 AM on June 22, 2018 [41 favorites]
I only recently started worrying about the cash tip vs tipping via an app because does it then show to providers on their side of the app that I've never tipped? Or is there something on the provider side where they can say "tips well in cash"? what an ordeal the future is for us all
I feel like I've told this story here before, but I used to order Domino's pizza delivery and pay by card over the phone for the pizza and tip the driver in cash
When I started getting "we're so sorry you weren't satisfied with your delivery, here's a coupon for a free pizza" postcards every damn time I ordered a pizza, I figured out that the cash tips were obviously not getting recorded
posted by prize bull octorok at 9:52 AM on June 22, 2018 [11 favorites]
I feel like I've told this story here before, but I used to order Domino's pizza delivery and pay by card over the phone for the pizza and tip the driver in cash
When I started getting "we're so sorry you weren't satisfied with your delivery, here's a coupon for a free pizza" postcards every damn time I ordered a pizza, I figured out that the cash tips were obviously not getting recorded
posted by prize bull octorok at 9:52 AM on June 22, 2018 [11 favorites]
For example: there is a canvassing organization in my city that I know trains canvassers to actually touch strangers to get them engaged, yet if anyone calls in with a complaint about the canvasser touching them, they fire the canvasser, without admitting it's their policy.
Ughhhh of COURSE they do. I've spent a long time wondering what I should have done when I saw a Nature Conservancy canvasser GRAB A WOMAN BY HER ARM to keep her from walking away, but now I know there is nothing I can do other than continue to not donate to them.
(To add, though, the orgs don't hire/fire their own canvassers for the most part. It is contracted out. And if you ever see one of those signs on a telephone pole that says "get paid to support XYZ rights!" run fast and far.)
posted by capricorn at 9:54 AM on June 22, 2018 [4 favorites]
Ughhhh of COURSE they do. I've spent a long time wondering what I should have done when I saw a Nature Conservancy canvasser GRAB A WOMAN BY HER ARM to keep her from walking away, but now I know there is nothing I can do other than continue to not donate to them.
(To add, though, the orgs don't hire/fire their own canvassers for the most part. It is contracted out. And if you ever see one of those signs on a telephone pole that says "get paid to support XYZ rights!" run fast and far.)
posted by capricorn at 9:54 AM on June 22, 2018 [4 favorites]
The cash-tipping issues are good to note. My aunt who waitressed for several years told us to tip in cash because CC fees and other bureaucratic nibbling, which I remembered though often don't do because of not having cash on hand, but it sounds like there are other considerations.
Anyway, this in general reinforces my desire not to interact with people in a commercial setting or do anything that requires interacting with people in a commercial setting. Before anyone gets all "then STAY HOME you monster" at me, that is literally what I am saying.
posted by inconstant at 9:57 AM on June 22, 2018 [2 favorites]
Anyway, this in general reinforces my desire not to interact with people in a commercial setting or do anything that requires interacting with people in a commercial setting. Before anyone gets all "then STAY HOME you monster" at me, that is literally what I am saying.
posted by inconstant at 9:57 AM on June 22, 2018 [2 favorites]
I delivered food for DoorDash for a little while as a short term side hustle and that has to be the most demented application of the employer rating system ever.
Someone calls in an order to Cheesecake Factory and the staff there ignores until they've rung up each and every one of the dozen people in line for takeaway cheesecake. Then they hand you food that's been sitting on the counter the entire twenty minutes you were waiting and is now stone cold. In the meantime, DoorDash has assigned you another delivery from the mall, because hey, you're already there. You deliver both orders late and cold and get one star ratings.
And even in the cases where the process is supposed to protect you, compliance is tricky. Some stoner orders 25 tacos from Taco Bell, all with no lettuce. Are you supposed to open and manhandle twenty five tacos to make sure? If so, you're going to make everything cold and ill-wrapped, and generally looking like it was tampered with. If not, you miss one taco with lettuce and bam, one star.
Christ, I was even asked to deliver a hot fudge sundae from Baskin Robbins and was given a one star review because it arrived partially melted. I drove a hot fudge sundae twenty minutes to your house, genius, what did you think would happen?
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:58 AM on June 22, 2018 [44 favorites]
Someone calls in an order to Cheesecake Factory and the staff there ignores until they've rung up each and every one of the dozen people in line for takeaway cheesecake. Then they hand you food that's been sitting on the counter the entire twenty minutes you were waiting and is now stone cold. In the meantime, DoorDash has assigned you another delivery from the mall, because hey, you're already there. You deliver both orders late and cold and get one star ratings.
And even in the cases where the process is supposed to protect you, compliance is tricky. Some stoner orders 25 tacos from Taco Bell, all with no lettuce. Are you supposed to open and manhandle twenty five tacos to make sure? If so, you're going to make everything cold and ill-wrapped, and generally looking like it was tampered with. If not, you miss one taco with lettuce and bam, one star.
Christ, I was even asked to deliver a hot fudge sundae from Baskin Robbins and was given a one star review because it arrived partially melted. I drove a hot fudge sundae twenty minutes to your house, genius, what did you think would happen?
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:58 AM on June 22, 2018 [44 favorites]
Man. My medical insurer now sends me surveys in the mail to fill out after any interaction with my GP or with a lab tech. I have been shredding them, but now I realize that perhaps I should complete them, lest those workers get penalized somehow.
Fuck everything about this.
posted by sandettie light vessel automatic at 9:58 AM on June 22, 2018 [4 favorites]
Fuck everything about this.
posted by sandettie light vessel automatic at 9:58 AM on June 22, 2018 [4 favorites]
the quantified digital future: michelin 4 star service at denny's wages
posted by zippy at 9:58 AM on June 22, 2018 [10 favorites]
posted by zippy at 9:58 AM on June 22, 2018 [10 favorites]
I only recently started worrying about the cash tip vs tipping via an app because does it then show to providers on their side of the app that I've never tipped?
Is this true for in-restaurant waitstaff as well? I always thought I was saving the restaurant transaction fees and giving the waitstaff something immediately rather than taking the risk their manager won't give them their tips.
posted by AFABulous at 9:59 AM on June 22, 2018 [2 favorites]
Is this true for in-restaurant waitstaff as well? I always thought I was saving the restaurant transaction fees and giving the waitstaff something immediately rather than taking the risk their manager won't give them their tips.
posted by AFABulous at 9:59 AM on June 22, 2018 [2 favorites]
It also might be worth noting that businesses that are part of a chain or franchise themselves can get penalized by the umbrella corporations for lower reviews, which can play a part in why even the individual businesses under that brand feel they have to stress ratings to keep their benefits within the franchise hierarchy. Since some franchises grade on a curve, that means the individual businesses are competing against each other in a zero sum manner, meaning no matter what someone is gonna get screwed.
posted by gusottertrout at 9:59 AM on June 22, 2018
posted by gusottertrout at 9:59 AM on June 22, 2018
Ughhhh of COURSE they do. I've spent a long time wondering what I should have done when I saw a Nature Conservancy canvasser GRAB A WOMAN BY HER ARM to keep her from walking away, but now I know there is nothing I can do other than continue to not donate to them.
I actually sent an email to Save the Children after I had to walk a gauntlet of three canvassers in a row racing up to me with arm outstretched in order to shake my hand. they told me that was absolutely not their policy and they would talk to their canvassing partner and tell them to cut it out.
As far as ratings for service go: minus, check, plus should be it (and plus should get the employee bonuses).
posted by oneirodynia at 10:01 AM on June 22, 2018 [2 favorites]
Much customer satisfaction research based on data collection using these scales is little more than employee surveillance plugged into a system of rewards and punishments. It needn't be that way; it is possible to take a much more comprehensive view of customer experience. But that requires much richer questionnaires and anthropological thinking.
Btw, NPS is not always used; note the widely held criticisms in the wikipedia article cited above.
In any case, not all respondents use response scales in the same way (i.e. the same imputed meanings to endpoints and differences, and the same motivations), and it's really poor practice to use individual responses of 4 not 5 to punish. One needs to use averages, comparison to normative benchmarks, and trends, and note that results often point to problems with management rather than employees.
posted by lathrop at 10:02 AM on June 22, 2018 [3 favorites]
Btw, NPS is not always used; note the widely held criticisms in the wikipedia article cited above.
In any case, not all respondents use response scales in the same way (i.e. the same imputed meanings to endpoints and differences, and the same motivations), and it's really poor practice to use individual responses of 4 not 5 to punish. One needs to use averages, comparison to normative benchmarks, and trends, and note that results often point to problems with management rather than employees.
posted by lathrop at 10:02 AM on June 22, 2018 [3 favorites]
Does this affect a specific designer/developer, or the marketing/whatever department? Because I am not going to give 10 stars to a garbage website with popups all over the place. How else can I send a message?
posted by AFABulous at 9:52 AM on June 22
I think it depends on the survey. If it asks you to rate your overall experience, then that's one thing. The surveys this company was giving broke website evaluation down into content (including interestingness of topic, accuracy of information, etc.), website usability, website presentation, etc.
I think the overall score was calculated (or asked for, depending on the survey) and any score that I as a consumer or reader would consider decent/adequate (say six or seven) was essentially dismissed.
posted by sardonyx at 10:03 AM on June 22, 2018
posted by AFABulous at 9:52 AM on June 22
I think it depends on the survey. If it asks you to rate your overall experience, then that's one thing. The surveys this company was giving broke website evaluation down into content (including interestingness of topic, accuracy of information, etc.), website usability, website presentation, etc.
I think the overall score was calculated (or asked for, depending on the survey) and any score that I as a consumer or reader would consider decent/adequate (say six or seven) was essentially dismissed.
posted by sardonyx at 10:03 AM on June 22, 2018
In a sensible world this is perhaps a source of somewhat useful data that is noisy and must be interpreted with real care. Of course it's never treated that way.
I wish "Seeing Like a State" were widely taught in business schools, it would probably do a lot of good.
posted by vogon_poet at 10:06 AM on June 22, 2018 [7 favorites]
I wish "Seeing Like a State" were widely taught in business schools, it would probably do a lot of good.
posted by vogon_poet at 10:06 AM on June 22, 2018 [7 favorites]
I think I might compose an email/letter/comment that I can re-use, to send to companies that hit me with these surveys, along the lines of "I hate it that you do this, and it makes me want to stop using your services."
Wouldn't be terribly effective, but it would afford me the feeling of doing something.
posted by sandettie light vessel automatic at 10:08 AM on June 22, 2018 [4 favorites]
Wouldn't be terribly effective, but it would afford me the feeling of doing something.
posted by sandettie light vessel automatic at 10:08 AM on June 22, 2018 [4 favorites]
So, wait, just not everyone immediately puts those tablet thingies on the next table over or, at the very least, turns them facedown under the pile of unnecessary up sell menus?
I mean, I'm already there to give you my money, the last thing I need is some device flashing shit at me the entire meal.
posted by madajb at 10:09 AM on June 22, 2018 [4 favorites]
I mean, I'm already there to give you my money, the last thing I need is some device flashing shit at me the entire meal.
posted by madajb at 10:09 AM on June 22, 2018 [4 favorites]
My employer does surveys. They actually average the results across everyone covered by it, and pay small regular bonuses across the board if we hit targets. They call the strategy "One Team". The idea is that we are supposed to help each other rather than devolving into fiefdoms. Which is awesome, except that whole swathes of the organization are not included in it, and those groups can be pretty unhelpful.
But I guess this is why the thresholds for the average score that will give us the bonus, are so high, yet we mostly meet them. They are assuming everyone who we don't piss off, will give us a perfect score, whether because we really were that great or because they see the etiquette in this way.
Having been here for years I have also gotten to see how the system gets adjusted regularly. We have thresholds where the bonuses are varying sizes. If we don't get the middle bonus often enough, management will lower the bar. And if we get the high bonus too often, they raise the bar. Basically management wants to always give us the mid level bonus. Not sure what they actually do with the numbers; it's more like a mind game than anything.
posted by elizilla at 10:12 AM on June 22, 2018 [3 favorites]
But I guess this is why the thresholds for the average score that will give us the bonus, are so high, yet we mostly meet them. They are assuming everyone who we don't piss off, will give us a perfect score, whether because we really were that great or because they see the etiquette in this way.
Having been here for years I have also gotten to see how the system gets adjusted regularly. We have thresholds where the bonuses are varying sizes. If we don't get the middle bonus often enough, management will lower the bar. And if we get the high bonus too often, they raise the bar. Basically management wants to always give us the mid level bonus. Not sure what they actually do with the numbers; it's more like a mind game than anything.
posted by elizilla at 10:12 AM on June 22, 2018 [3 favorites]
The survey things I like are the sad face/sick face/neutral face/happy face buttons you see at exits and other strategic places.
They let the crowd express its opinion, but as a whole, not tied to any individual person.
Though I imagine they have their own data issues especially in venues that attract kids.
posted by madajb at 10:12 AM on June 22, 2018 [3 favorites]
They let the crowd express its opinion, but as a whole, not tied to any individual person.
Though I imagine they have their own data issues especially in venues that attract kids.
posted by madajb at 10:12 AM on June 22, 2018 [3 favorites]
I just looked up some of the NPS data from this company. Score of zero to six are considered detractors. Scores of seven and eight are counted as passive. People who give a nine or ten rating are classed as promoters.
The NPS score is calculated like this: for one group of questions detractors were 40% of respondents, promoters were 15%, which resulted in an NPS score of -25.
posted by sardonyx at 10:13 AM on June 22, 2018
The NPS score is calculated like this: for one group of questions detractors were 40% of respondents, promoters were 15%, which resulted in an NPS score of -25.
posted by sardonyx at 10:13 AM on June 22, 2018
If the ratings are used to determine which servers get more or fewer shifts or which servers get the best sections of the restaurant, it's not clear to me how the decisions can be made on anything other than a relative basis. The story suggested that servers with higher ratings benefitted from them, so it did seem the important thing was how the score compared to other servers, but there was also the assertion that the score needs to absolutely be five stars. I didn't see an explanation of how both things could be true.
posted by layceepee at 10:16 AM on June 22, 2018
posted by layceepee at 10:16 AM on June 22, 2018
I actually applied for a data analyst position with a major retail company and it just now occurred to me that the job might involve these kinds of metrics. I had a phone interview last week and I should find out today whether I'll get an in person interview. If I do, I'll ask about the specific metrics and how they use them. If I'm offered the job, it'll be quite the ethical dilemma for me because I've been out of work for over a year. Fuck.
posted by AFABulous at 10:17 AM on June 22, 2018 [8 favorites]
posted by AFABulous at 10:17 AM on June 22, 2018 [8 favorites]
It sure is unfortunate when customers accidentally spill salt water into their table-top tablets. If this sort of thing keeps happening, distributing tablets may not remain financially sustainable.
posted by eotvos at 10:20 AM on June 22, 2018 [7 favorites]
posted by eotvos at 10:20 AM on June 22, 2018 [7 favorites]
Are you supposed to open and manhandle twenty five tacos to make sure?
That's interesting, because Skip the Dishes, which has a way better restaurant selection in my area, expressly says that food issues are the restaurant's responsibility and that the driver is not allowed to touch it because of food safety issues. They'll refund or put in a new order or whatever to fix it, but it's not on the driver. I feel like in some cases this is slightly silly--as far as I can tell they don't even tell the driver what's supposed to be there so the driver might leave without a beverage that would have been obvious--but I'm pretty supportive of the idea that what goes into the bag is not the driver's problem to manage. Especially, you know, a driver whose car is not exactly outfitted for hand-washing. I find it very gross that they would hold food stuff against someone who under no circumstances should be touching the food.
posted by Sequence at 10:22 AM on June 22, 2018 [7 favorites]
That's interesting, because Skip the Dishes, which has a way better restaurant selection in my area, expressly says that food issues are the restaurant's responsibility and that the driver is not allowed to touch it because of food safety issues. They'll refund or put in a new order or whatever to fix it, but it's not on the driver. I feel like in some cases this is slightly silly--as far as I can tell they don't even tell the driver what's supposed to be there so the driver might leave without a beverage that would have been obvious--but I'm pretty supportive of the idea that what goes into the bag is not the driver's problem to manage. Especially, you know, a driver whose car is not exactly outfitted for hand-washing. I find it very gross that they would hold food stuff against someone who under no circumstances should be touching the food.
posted by Sequence at 10:22 AM on June 22, 2018 [7 favorites]
If I'm offered the job, it'll be quite the ethical dilemma for me because I've been out of work for over a year. Fuck.
If you are offered the job, it will be great, because you will be in a position to effect change from the inside. Good luck!
posted by Rock Steady at 10:23 AM on June 22, 2018 [9 favorites]
If you are offered the job, it will be great, because you will be in a position to effect change from the inside. Good luck!
posted by Rock Steady at 10:23 AM on June 22, 2018 [9 favorites]
> capricorn:
"the orgs don't hire/fire their own canvassers for the most part. It is contracted out. And if you ever see one of those signs on a telephone pole that says "get paid to support XYZ rights!" run fast and far.)"
Tear them down, like I do those and all of the Make Money From Home flyers. Basically, I figure anything with a tear-off phone number that isn't for a lost pet or neighborhood criminal is a scam.
posted by rhizome at 10:24 AM on June 22, 2018
"the orgs don't hire/fire their own canvassers for the most part. It is contracted out. And if you ever see one of those signs on a telephone pole that says "get paid to support XYZ rights!" run fast and far.)"
Tear them down, like I do those and all of the Make Money From Home flyers. Basically, I figure anything with a tear-off phone number that isn't for a lost pet or neighborhood criminal is a scam.
posted by rhizome at 10:24 AM on June 22, 2018
I recently applied for a job, and was turned down early in the process. After being turned down, I was invited to fill out a survey on what I thought of the job-application process. And it wasn't just a single "rate this on a scale 1-5" question—I clicked their link out of curiosity, and it was a lot of questions!
They could have answered the questions for themselves. How do they think I felt about being turned down?
posted by adamrice at 10:25 AM on June 22, 2018 [5 favorites]
They could have answered the questions for themselves. How do they think I felt about being turned down?
posted by adamrice at 10:25 AM on June 22, 2018 [5 favorites]
This is especially jarring if you're Irish or British and your highest superlative is "not bad".
posted by kersplunk at 10:28 AM on June 22, 2018 [27 favorites]
posted by kersplunk at 10:28 AM on June 22, 2018 [27 favorites]
This bullshit was the most important thing I learned in customer support - I always give full marks now when I get surveyed because hearing my manager do a postmortem on someone explaining that they gave 7/10 because they got "exactly what they needed" was torture for everyone involved.
My family has a habit of rating our parallel parking out of 10, and a 6 means you've done a perfectly adequate job. Nobody has scored a 10, probably not a 9. I find this pretty cathartic in between needing to talk about my life-changing pharmacy experience or whatever.
I should have learned a lot earlier though: about ten years ago, I was still on Facebook and was procrastinating, and I filled out a 'hot or not' widget for someone I had a substantial crush on. I gave him a 7 because he was lovely but I figured an objective scale needed room at the top for the stupidly beautiful, and most of us were propping up the bell curve between 4 and 7. Well, it posted my name and rating on his wall.
posted by carbide at 10:29 AM on June 22, 2018 [4 favorites]
My family has a habit of rating our parallel parking out of 10, and a 6 means you've done a perfectly adequate job. Nobody has scored a 10, probably not a 9. I find this pretty cathartic in between needing to talk about my life-changing pharmacy experience or whatever.
I should have learned a lot earlier though: about ten years ago, I was still on Facebook and was procrastinating, and I filled out a 'hot or not' widget for someone I had a substantial crush on. I gave him a 7 because he was lovely but I figured an objective scale needed room at the top for the stupidly beautiful, and most of us were propping up the bell curve between 4 and 7. Well, it posted my name and rating on his wall.
posted by carbide at 10:29 AM on June 22, 2018 [4 favorites]
I feel like a happy medium on the food-delivery thing would be to have the driver read back the order as transmitted, and let the restaurant staff confirm that's what they gave you. Avoids getting somebody else's order altogether or missing an obvious separate item (e.g. drink) but the onus is still on the food service people to be correct.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 10:31 AM on June 22, 2018
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 10:31 AM on June 22, 2018
Instead of a star-based system, just ask the customer what could the employee have done to make the service better. Evaluate the employee based on the answer.
posted by asra at 10:32 AM on June 22, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by asra at 10:32 AM on June 22, 2018 [1 favorite]
This is especially jarring if you're Irish or British and your highest superlative is "not bad"
Yeah, I never used to give tens because to me ten was clearly reserved for "they're my new best friend and I want to invite them to my birthday party or possibly wear their skin like a suit and become them because they're so awesome". My natural ranking inclinations do not work with these company's expectations.
posted by stillnocturnal at 10:32 AM on June 22, 2018 [12 favorites]
Yeah, I never used to give tens because to me ten was clearly reserved for "they're my new best friend and I want to invite them to my birthday party or possibly wear their skin like a suit and become them because they're so awesome". My natural ranking inclinations do not work with these company's expectations.
posted by stillnocturnal at 10:32 AM on June 22, 2018 [12 favorites]
I actually sent an email to Save the Children after I had to walk a gauntlet of three canvassers in a row racing up to me with arm outstretched in order to shake my hand. they told me that was absolutely not their policy and they would talk to their canvassing partner and tell them to cut it out.
Right, this is exactly what corb's comment said they would say, but it likely IS their policy (or more specifically, the policy of a predatory employer that hires canvassers).
posted by capricorn at 10:34 AM on June 22, 2018 [1 favorite]
Right, this is exactly what corb's comment said they would say, but it likely IS their policy (or more specifically, the policy of a predatory employer that hires canvassers).
posted by capricorn at 10:34 AM on June 22, 2018 [1 favorite]
The survey things I like are the sad face/sick face/neutral face/happy face buttons you see at exits and other strategic places.I read a fascinating story about the company that does those, but now I can't find it. The devices give feedback in real time to the folks managing the sites, so you can find out REALLY QUICKLY if there's a bathroom issue out in Terminal D, or if the McDonald's in the Food Court is in trouble, or whatever.
It's kinda neat, but I see it as different than this 5-start survey culture BS.
posted by uberchet at 10:37 AM on June 22, 2018
We use the online Walmart grocery. I drive over a few blocks for the free pickup and always give the attendant five stars on the follow up email. I make an effort to remember their name since being mentioned is how they get their bonus (inside information from a manager). Besides, I'm old and anything that frees me from navigating a ginormous box store is worth a nod...
posted by jim in austin at 10:38 AM on June 22, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by jim in austin at 10:38 AM on June 22, 2018 [2 favorites]
Nobody has scored a 10, probably not a 9.
What it would take to score a ten in parallel parking?
posted by layceepee at 10:40 AM on June 22, 2018
What it would take to score a ten in parallel parking?
posted by layceepee at 10:40 AM on June 22, 2018
This is all to do with the endgame of current corporate structure and CEO forced sociopathy ("increase shareholder value" as the required goal of every company, not "adhere to our company charter which could include other values.")
It's increasingly clear to me, especially as world leaders who have been businessmen (*cough*) apply their principles to politics and on the world stage, that a vast swath of senior management really seriously understands their role as "scream at people (whether actually or metaphorically) until data changes."
In this case, you have companies where people have been working to drive the metrics up and up on data that they have over the last decade suddenly been able to access at lower cost. Which is why it has to all be stars and not comments.
So not only is this low-value, but very satisfying in a "my success is reported to the board!" way, data plentiful, but each senior person has pushed the bar higher and higher until 5 stars is the only acceptable answer. And then some companies like Uber have discovered that they can use this to keep people trying to game the system by making customer experiences better at their own cost in order to get to that number. Like I've had Uber drivers offer me water and snacks and playlists, which is lovely and all but I doubt that they are compensated for this the way traditional employees either get to expense water on site for customers, or don't.
And they get away with it in part because the endgame of the American Dream is to be your own CEO, so everyone chases the numbers. I did, in media, for a long long time. (I include Canada in this although I think we still have some reservations about front-line staff that make the work cultures slightly different...for now.)
It's all a kind of laziness and absolutest thinking, mixed in retail with a rapidly changing landscape. Profits are numerical enough, but there's almost no way, any more, for a CEO to report things like "I fixed some problems that could have impacted us long term but no needle today really moved." And the type of people who have remained in that system are...okay perpetuating it.
Anyways I will be sure to give the 5 stars any time I encounter this kind of system. The faster everyone, everywhere, every time gets to 5 stars the sooner we can blow it up. Although you know there is always going to be That Person that Expresses Themselves through customer satisfaction surveys.
posted by warriorqueen at 10:41 AM on June 22, 2018 [4 favorites]
It's increasingly clear to me, especially as world leaders who have been businessmen (*cough*) apply their principles to politics and on the world stage, that a vast swath of senior management really seriously understands their role as "scream at people (whether actually or metaphorically) until data changes."
In this case, you have companies where people have been working to drive the metrics up and up on data that they have over the last decade suddenly been able to access at lower cost. Which is why it has to all be stars and not comments.
So not only is this low-value, but very satisfying in a "my success is reported to the board!" way, data plentiful, but each senior person has pushed the bar higher and higher until 5 stars is the only acceptable answer. And then some companies like Uber have discovered that they can use this to keep people trying to game the system by making customer experiences better at their own cost in order to get to that number. Like I've had Uber drivers offer me water and snacks and playlists, which is lovely and all but I doubt that they are compensated for this the way traditional employees either get to expense water on site for customers, or don't.
And they get away with it in part because the endgame of the American Dream is to be your own CEO, so everyone chases the numbers. I did, in media, for a long long time. (I include Canada in this although I think we still have some reservations about front-line staff that make the work cultures slightly different...for now.)
It's all a kind of laziness and absolutest thinking, mixed in retail with a rapidly changing landscape. Profits are numerical enough, but there's almost no way, any more, for a CEO to report things like "I fixed some problems that could have impacted us long term but no needle today really moved." And the type of people who have remained in that system are...okay perpetuating it.
Anyways I will be sure to give the 5 stars any time I encounter this kind of system. The faster everyone, everywhere, every time gets to 5 stars the sooner we can blow it up. Although you know there is always going to be That Person that Expresses Themselves through customer satisfaction surveys.
posted by warriorqueen at 10:41 AM on June 22, 2018 [4 favorites]
I didn't see an explanation of how both things could be true.
It can be true when there's a strong ceiling effect. If everyone is performing near the top of the scale, that means that there's less variation between servers, and the differences between them are less meaningful. Very small differences can make you one of the lower performers - and those can just be due to chance.
Giving a server a five-star rating in this situation doesn't fix the broken system, or keep the management from pitting employees against each other in this way. But what it does do is help keep that particular server for being punished under this system for your four-star rating.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 10:41 AM on June 22, 2018 [3 favorites]
It can be true when there's a strong ceiling effect. If everyone is performing near the top of the scale, that means that there's less variation between servers, and the differences between them are less meaningful. Very small differences can make you one of the lower performers - and those can just be due to chance.
Giving a server a five-star rating in this situation doesn't fix the broken system, or keep the management from pitting employees against each other in this way. But what it does do is help keep that particular server for being punished under this system for your four-star rating.
posted by Kutsuwamushi at 10:41 AM on June 22, 2018 [3 favorites]
I actually sent an email to Save the Children after I had to walk a gauntlet of three canvassers in a row racing up to me with arm outstretched in order to shake my hand. they told me that was absolutely not their policy and they would talk to their canvassing partner and tell them to cut it out.
The canvassing org that partners with Save the Children is precisely who I was referencing, except we live in different cities, so it is clear it is a national policy rather than a local one.
posted by corb at 10:45 AM on June 22, 2018 [1 favorite]
The canvassing org that partners with Save the Children is precisely who I was referencing, except we live in different cities, so it is clear it is a national policy rather than a local one.
posted by corb at 10:45 AM on June 22, 2018 [1 favorite]
A ten in parallel parking would be: 1) parking in a space everyone agrees the car will definitely not fit 2) in one try, turning the wheel only twice, without any pauses 3) completely snug up to the curb, but without actually touching the curb, 4) using only mirrors.
posted by rikschell at 10:46 AM on June 22, 2018 [6 favorites]
posted by rikschell at 10:46 AM on June 22, 2018 [6 favorites]
Instead of a star-based system, just ask the customer what could the employee have done to make the service better. Evaluate the employee based on the answer.
Until it's generally okay for these employees to be less than perfect, I can see this leading to just as many horrors. Managers given employee feedback like "could have been a bit faster" or "could have been more cheerful" are just as likely to treat these like major performance defects even where it should be understood that a generally-well-served customer could still write both of those things. And worse, I think if you switched to qualitative reviews, the most satisfied customers would be the least likely to leave any review at all, so your average feedback could be much more negative.
posted by Sequence at 10:46 AM on June 22, 2018 [4 favorites]
Until it's generally okay for these employees to be less than perfect, I can see this leading to just as many horrors. Managers given employee feedback like "could have been a bit faster" or "could have been more cheerful" are just as likely to treat these like major performance defects even where it should be understood that a generally-well-served customer could still write both of those things. And worse, I think if you switched to qualitative reviews, the most satisfied customers would be the least likely to leave any review at all, so your average feedback could be much more negative.
posted by Sequence at 10:46 AM on June 22, 2018 [4 favorites]
Evaluation surveys are often taken by customers as an opportunity to vent at the company in general, rather than the employee in particular.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:53 AM on June 22, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:53 AM on June 22, 2018 [3 favorites]
I used to give 10 stars or whatever no matter what but now I just don't do anything. It is enabling terrorists as far as I am concerned, stupid terrorists at that. I do not wish to knuckle under to the emotional manipulation just so some jerk MBA can comb their fingers through meaningless metrics in order to have something to do. I feel like filling out these surveys even with the best intent is just enabling something that should not be.
posted by Pembquist at 10:53 AM on June 22, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by Pembquist at 10:53 AM on June 22, 2018 [4 favorites]
This is all to do with the endgame of current corporate structure and CEO forced sociopathy ("increase shareholder value" as the required goal of every company, not "adhere to our company charter which could include other values.")
take some grim satisfaction at the Wells Fargo debacle, where finally the CEO was held responsible for this absolutely stupid obsession with shallow metrics.
posted by vogon_poet at 10:57 AM on June 22, 2018 [1 favorite]
take some grim satisfaction at the Wells Fargo debacle, where finally the CEO was held responsible for this absolutely stupid obsession with shallow metrics.
posted by vogon_poet at 10:57 AM on June 22, 2018 [1 favorite]
Man. My medical insurer now sends me surveys in the mail to fill out after any interaction with my GP or with a lab tech. I have been shredding them, but now I realize that perhaps I should complete them, lest those workers get penalized somehow.
My... sympathy is a bit different towards a doctor making $250K/year than someone working customer service making $15/hour. Or am I part of the problem?
posted by meowzilla at 11:00 AM on June 22, 2018
My... sympathy is a bit different towards a doctor making $250K/year than someone working customer service making $15/hour. Or am I part of the problem?
posted by meowzilla at 11:00 AM on June 22, 2018
I worked as a bank teller at bank of america for about a year, and this part of the job was one of the reasons why I quit. We were rated on how many extra services we offered, how many times we asked, etc. It was literally coercing people into financially unstable decisions.
posted by FirstMateKate at 11:03 AM on June 22, 2018 [9 favorites]
posted by FirstMateKate at 11:03 AM on June 22, 2018 [9 favorites]
Restaurants should not try to make me part of their fucking employee management schemes. I don't want to decide who gets enough money to feed their family that week and who doesn't. I want every employer to be legally required to pay every employee a living wage no matter what.
posted by pracowity at 11:03 AM on June 22, 2018 [30 favorites]
posted by pracowity at 11:03 AM on June 22, 2018 [30 favorites]
This post helped me discover that you can go back in the Lyft app and tip drivers after the fact - at least 72 hours later, which seems to be the cutoff.
posted by gottabefunky at 11:05 AM on June 22, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by gottabefunky at 11:05 AM on June 22, 2018 [4 favorites]
I was introduced to this situation a few days ago by a relative who works as a manager in a grocery store. "Always give 5's" he implored.
The matter came up because another relative (that isn't well liked) has a habit of writing long letters to complain about the smallest things when she eats out. She'll go on in detail (apparently) about how some tiny thing wasn't to her personal standards of perfections. My imagination tells me there's a chance she's responsible for people losing their jobs.
She thinks she's a good person (don't we all), and in her 'defense' also writes lengthy letters when there is exceptional service.
Personally, I very rarely fill out a survey. Look, I already paid for my meal/service; why are you asking me to perform free quality assurance for your organization. Hire some secret shoppers or something, massive grocery store chain.
posted by el io at 11:11 AM on June 22, 2018 [6 favorites]
The matter came up because another relative (that isn't well liked) has a habit of writing long letters to complain about the smallest things when she eats out. She'll go on in detail (apparently) about how some tiny thing wasn't to her personal standards of perfections. My imagination tells me there's a chance she's responsible for people losing their jobs.
She thinks she's a good person (don't we all), and in her 'defense' also writes lengthy letters when there is exceptional service.
Personally, I very rarely fill out a survey. Look, I already paid for my meal/service; why are you asking me to perform free quality assurance for your organization. Hire some secret shoppers or something, massive grocery store chain.
posted by el io at 11:11 AM on June 22, 2018 [6 favorites]
A ten in parallel parking would be: 1) parking in a space everyone agrees the car will definitely not fit 2) in one try, turning the wheel only twice, without any pauses 3) completely snug up to the curb, but without actually touching the curb, 4) using only mirrors.
My stepfather once got a round of applause from some construction workers after squeezing into a tiny space in the Back Bay. I think that is a 10.
posted by Rock Steady at 11:13 AM on June 22, 2018 [6 favorites]
My stepfather once got a round of applause from some construction workers after squeezing into a tiny space in the Back Bay. I think that is a 10.
posted by Rock Steady at 11:13 AM on June 22, 2018 [6 favorites]
I'm sorry, a 12 star rating is now the minimum for parallel parking, you need to improve or you'll be terminated.
posted by automatronic at 11:23 AM on June 22, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by automatronic at 11:23 AM on June 22, 2018 [4 favorites]
The real-time 🙂😐🙁 button devices generate insanely detailed metrics that are used by employers to target specific employees on specific shifts. They are if anything more poisonous than surveys. Sigh.
posted by sixswitch at 11:25 AM on June 22, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by sixswitch at 11:25 AM on June 22, 2018 [1 favorite]
The real-time 🙂😐🙁 button devices generate insanely detailed metrics that are used by employers to target specific employees on specific shifts. They are if anything more poisonous than surveys. Sigh.
One problem with those things is they have a 'neutral' button. I remember reading an article about the company that developed them; the company was (I believe) Finnish. I feel like someone needs to make clear to them that Americans cannot be trusted to properly interpret 'neutral.'
posted by breakin' the law at 11:38 AM on June 22, 2018 [1 favorite]
One problem with those things is they have a 'neutral' button. I remember reading an article about the company that developed them; the company was (I believe) Finnish. I feel like someone needs to make clear to them that Americans cannot be trusted to properly interpret 'neutral.'
posted by breakin' the law at 11:38 AM on June 22, 2018 [1 favorite]
The real-time 🙂😐🙁 button devices generate insanely detailed metrics that are used by employers to target specific employees on specific shifts. They are if anything more poisonous than surveys. Sigh.Huh?
Like, sure, you can have unethical management, and they'll fuck anything up, but the deployment of the 2- or 3-button survey panels seems like a great way to get information about customer satisfaction without creating a whole 5-stars-or-you're-fired scenario -- especially for things like airport bathrooms.
posted by uberchet at 11:47 AM on June 22, 2018
My read, as someone who isn't a waiter but is familiar with retail-survey fuckery: the problem isn't the 🙂😐🙁 scale but the real-time element. It allows the company to track how often a server is visiting individual tables, and to enforce not only mandatory overall cheerfulness but mandatory cheerfulness in every 30-second engagement with every table for the whole shift.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 11:50 AM on June 22, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 11:50 AM on June 22, 2018 [2 favorites]
This is especially jarring if you're Irish or British and your highest superlative is "not bad".
Your point there is quite good.
posted by ambrosen at 11:53 AM on June 22, 2018 [1 favorite]
Your point there is quite good.
posted by ambrosen at 11:53 AM on June 22, 2018 [1 favorite]
breakin' the law: One problem with those things is they have a 'neutral' button. I remember reading an article about the company that developed them; the company was (I believe) Finnish. I feel like someone needs to make clear to them that Americans cannot be trusted to properly interpret 'neutral.'
I think it was the article in The New Yorker about the HappyOrNot terminals. (David Owen, in the February 5th 2018 issue, "Customer Satisfaction at the Push of a Button".)
posted by minsies at 12:03 PM on June 22, 2018 [2 favorites]
I think it was the article in The New Yorker about the HappyOrNot terminals. (David Owen, in the February 5th 2018 issue, "Customer Satisfaction at the Push of a Button".)
posted by minsies at 12:03 PM on June 22, 2018 [2 favorites]
Under comments.... I no longer support businesses that ask me to evaluate the job performance of their employees.......might help.
posted by notreally at 12:05 PM on June 22, 2018 [5 favorites]
posted by notreally at 12:05 PM on June 22, 2018 [5 favorites]
God, I fucking hate capitalism. I've gone from a Buckley conservative in my youth through "maybe we can salvage the good parts" to wind up here at "why haven't we seized the means of production yet?"
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 12:07 PM on June 22, 2018 [17 favorites]
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 12:07 PM on June 22, 2018 [17 favorites]
Shit my Noodles app asks me how was my visit with 😟😊😍😎 (frown, smile, heart, sunglasses) emojis. I AM SO CONFLICTED.
posted by littlesq at 12:10 PM on June 22, 2018
posted by littlesq at 12:10 PM on June 22, 2018
My natural ranking inclinations do not work with these company's expectations.
I'm not entirely sure that's the case. Maybe I'm just burned out*, but I feel like many employers love to give their employees negative feedback as a way of justifying crappy working conditions/pay. By making everything less than perfect = shitty, they can keep telling people they just aren't good enough, wearing away at their self esteem enough they'll stay in the shitty job.
*Only one more week to go!
posted by ghost phoneme at 12:11 PM on June 22, 2018 [6 favorites]
I'm not entirely sure that's the case. Maybe I'm just burned out*, but I feel like many employers love to give their employees negative feedback as a way of justifying crappy working conditions/pay. By making everything less than perfect = shitty, they can keep telling people they just aren't good enough, wearing away at their self esteem enough they'll stay in the shitty job.
*Only one more week to go!
posted by ghost phoneme at 12:11 PM on June 22, 2018 [6 favorites]
Shit my Noodles app asks me how was my visit
Please tell us more about the Shit My Noodles app.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 12:15 PM on June 22, 2018 [29 favorites]
Please tell us more about the Shit My Noodles app.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 12:15 PM on June 22, 2018 [29 favorites]
Yes, receipt surveys are the retailer version of Uber's star rating.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 12:32 PM on June 22, 2018
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 12:32 PM on June 22, 2018
What should we do? Longer term I mean.
In a restaurant, to your server, after you've left a good tip: "Hey, you were great and this is not about you at all, I just need to speak to the manager for a minute, would you mind getting them?"
To manager: "My food was good and [name of server] did a great job, but I am not going to fill out this survey on principle. Please tell corporate that your customers object to this practice and we will take our business elsewhere."
posted by AFABulous at 1:15 PM on June 22, 2018 [3 favorites]
In a restaurant, to your server, after you've left a good tip: "Hey, you were great and this is not about you at all, I just need to speak to the manager for a minute, would you mind getting them?"
To manager: "My food was good and [name of server] did a great job, but I am not going to fill out this survey on principle. Please tell corporate that your customers object to this practice and we will take our business elsewhere."
posted by AFABulous at 1:15 PM on June 22, 2018 [3 favorites]
From what I've read on Reddit, it would probably be much better if you complained directly to corporate yourself, rather than involving the manager.
I live in a city with great food and I haven't traveled much for the past few years, so I only eat in locally owned places. I haven't seen any of these tablets or happy face thingies, for which I am very grateful.
posted by Squeak Attack at 1:23 PM on June 22, 2018 [1 favorite]
I live in a city with great food and I haven't traveled much for the past few years, so I only eat in locally owned places. I haven't seen any of these tablets or happy face thingies, for which I am very grateful.
posted by Squeak Attack at 1:23 PM on June 22, 2018 [1 favorite]
Instead of a star-based system, just ask the customer what could the employee have done to make the service better. Evaluate the employee based on the answer.
posted by asra at 1:32 PM on June 22 [+] [!]
Please no. When this tack is chosen the reviews for female employees include suggestions like “be naked.”
Do not ever suggest this feedback collection style to a company. Please.
posted by bilabial at 1:36 PM on June 22, 2018 [17 favorites]
This doesn't just happen in the food/retail/gig economy world, though. I'm an implementation coordinator for a financial IT firm, and the mid-sized banks/credit unions for whom I implement Apple Pay or Google Pay or whatever get sent surveys when I complete a project for them. And yes, these surveys are part of my annual performance review. And I worry about that, because I had one spectacularly bad survey very early in this fiscal year from a client who acknowledged in the notes on their returned survey that it wasn't me personally they had a problem with, it was issues that originated with a 3rd party vendor and were completely out of my control... but this guy still went to the effort of rating every single metric on that fucking survey at a 1 or 2 out of 5, and nobody looks at the notes when they compile this information at review time. So I may very likely not get a merit raise this year because some angry white male bank manager in Vermont is pissed off and doesn't give a shit about the consequences of his anger mismanagement.
posted by palomar at 1:53 PM on June 22, 2018 [5 favorites]
posted by palomar at 1:53 PM on June 22, 2018 [5 favorites]
Any manager worth the money they're being paid should know if their employees are doing a good job. They shouldn't need some bullshit Yelp For Employees to figure that out.
posted by stillnocturnal at 2:00 PM on June 22, 2018 [14 favorites]
posted by stillnocturnal at 2:00 PM on June 22, 2018 [14 favorites]
I am a left-leaning statistician and this bullshit makes me twitch twice.
My HMO sends me these surveys with, like, eight billion five-point-scale questions every ducking time I go to the doctor. The care I get is excellent, almost without exception[1], but I want to know how I can find the assholes who made the decision to spam me with invitations to defund my PCP (someone I have been seeing for a decade+), and give THEM a bunch of one star ratings, thereby ensuring their swift replacement with reasonable humans.
[1] There was that one time an on-call nurse identified something as viral and then immediately suggested antibiotics. You’d better bet they heard about that person. But otherwise I’m very lucky.
posted by eirias at 2:00 PM on June 22, 2018 [5 favorites]
My HMO sends me these surveys with, like, eight billion five-point-scale questions every ducking time I go to the doctor. The care I get is excellent, almost without exception[1], but I want to know how I can find the assholes who made the decision to spam me with invitations to defund my PCP (someone I have been seeing for a decade+), and give THEM a bunch of one star ratings, thereby ensuring their swift replacement with reasonable humans.
[1] There was that one time an on-call nurse identified something as viral and then immediately suggested antibiotics. You’d better bet they heard about that person. But otherwise I’m very lucky.
posted by eirias at 2:00 PM on June 22, 2018 [5 favorites]
I once was going to give a Lyft driver 4 stars (I honestly can't remember why) and the app immediately asked me what he did wrong. I reversed my vote and gave him 5 stars. Whatever he'd done had been minor, but I realized that the 4 should be saved for someone who has an unsecured child in the car with them.
Honestly, if they got rid of everything but 1 and 5 stars, the system would be much better.
posted by Hactar at 2:03 PM on June 22, 2018 [1 favorite]
Honestly, if they got rid of everything but 1 and 5 stars, the system would be much better.
posted by Hactar at 2:03 PM on June 22, 2018 [1 favorite]
From the article:
posted by mhum at 2:07 PM on June 22, 2018 [10 favorites]
He [Jack Baum, CEO of Ziosk] said he wasn’t aware that some restaurants threaten to cut shifts of servers with lower ratings, and isn’t “a huge fan of using station or scheduling as preference for people getting great scores.”Are you fucking kidding me, man? This is some Werner Von Braun, "that's not my department" bullshit.
Rajat Suri, CEO of the California-based Ziosk competitor Presto, is even more bullish than Baum about the technology: He imagines a future in which tabletop devices deliver customer feedback data to management constantly and instantaneously.Oh my god. This person has either never worked as a server or is a complete sociopath. Possibly both.
“We think there could be a server leaderboard in the back of house that ranks the servers in real time, based on guest surveys,” he said. “I agree it's going to increase stress. But it will put the emphasis more on performance.”
posted by mhum at 2:07 PM on June 22, 2018 [10 favorites]
omg i gave an uber driver 4 stars because he literally couldn't follow the gps, missed a turn, and took us across a bridge before able to turn around to go in the right direction and added like 10 minutes to the trip and i felt so goddamn guilty.
posted by numaner at 2:21 PM on June 22, 2018
posted by numaner at 2:21 PM on June 22, 2018
The only driver I've rated less than 5 stars: missed the turnoff to the airport, twice(!), both times took an exit to a toll road instead, didn't have an iPass so we had to wait and pay in cash, and the second time around he didn't have any more cash so I had to pay the toll. He got 3 stars.
posted by Jobst at 2:33 PM on June 22, 2018
posted by Jobst at 2:33 PM on June 22, 2018
It's time we massively start doing what I've been doing for a while whenever I get an request to "rate" a company (not a person, mind you). Rate them all zero stars and in the comment fields say "I bloody hate getting bugged with a review request every time I so much as fart online, so I'm zero rating this shit until it stops."
At the very least just muck up their system.
Which reminds me, the number of requests I've been getting recently has dropped a bit. Perhaps it's working.
posted by DreamerFi at 3:19 PM on June 22, 2018
At the very least just muck up their system.
Which reminds me, the number of requests I've been getting recently has dropped a bit. Perhaps it's working.
posted by DreamerFi at 3:19 PM on June 22, 2018
back in the 90s, I was managing an installation group, and mgmt insisted we do surveys. I agreed only after tying it to our group bonus in a clear fashion, posted weekly survey results, and called any customer who had a 6 or less on a scale of 1-10 -- we did spectacularly, and every bonus was met -- we were even audited and the auditors said "you're getting scores that are impossible, but they check out, your group is just that good." Then mgmt decided to decouple the bonus, and lo and behold, our scores dropped. Funny that. The company went bankrupt shortly thereafter due to the CEO and financial officer lying about earnings, which I don't think is unrelated.
posted by Blackanvil at 3:27 PM on June 22, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by Blackanvil at 3:27 PM on June 22, 2018 [3 favorites]
Instead of a star-based system, just ask the customer what could the employee have done to make the service better. Evaluate the employee based on the answer.
This is still awful. The customer is not always right. How is that customer in a position to know what is actually that employee's fault and not the company's fault, or the fault of poor management? What if that employee was having an off day, as we all do?
Customer service is so freaking hard. You can be a perfect saint, and you'll still manage to piss someone off. Some customers will call up just looking for a fight. You can't please everyone no matter what you do. I work in customer service, and I am SO GLAD my company doesn't have this policy of asking customers to rate the representatives.
Most people don't care about whether a CSR is a perfect being, they just want their problem to be resolved without having to call back over and over again.
posted by wondermouse at 5:36 PM on June 22, 2018 [4 favorites]
This is still awful. The customer is not always right. How is that customer in a position to know what is actually that employee's fault and not the company's fault, or the fault of poor management? What if that employee was having an off day, as we all do?
Customer service is so freaking hard. You can be a perfect saint, and you'll still manage to piss someone off. Some customers will call up just looking for a fight. You can't please everyone no matter what you do. I work in customer service, and I am SO GLAD my company doesn't have this policy of asking customers to rate the representatives.
Most people don't care about whether a CSR is a perfect being, they just want their problem to be resolved without having to call back over and over again.
posted by wondermouse at 5:36 PM on June 22, 2018 [4 favorites]
What is the point of having a survey when the results are all coerced? All of these customer satisfaction surveys are used to belittle and exploit the workers and not to get real feedback from customers. What happens if we refuse to fill them out? Period.
Unfortunately, in many situations you can't refuse because you're forced into the surveys by the app. On Upwork, the transaction for someone who hired a freelancer can't be even completed without a rating. (Or so I am told, anyway; I've actually never hired anyone there myself. Maybe another MeFite can confirm.)
So these are your only choices as a customer:
1) leave a less-than-5-star rating knowing that the freelancer will be docked for it, or
2) leave a 5-star rating regardless of your actual assessment.
The point of the survey is to exploit the workers, under the guise of promoting "customer satisfaction."
posted by velvet winter at 5:38 PM on June 22, 2018 [4 favorites]
Unfortunately, in many situations you can't refuse because you're forced into the surveys by the app. On Upwork, the transaction for someone who hired a freelancer can't be even completed without a rating. (Or so I am told, anyway; I've actually never hired anyone there myself. Maybe another MeFite can confirm.)
So these are your only choices as a customer:
1) leave a less-than-5-star rating knowing that the freelancer will be docked for it, or
2) leave a 5-star rating regardless of your actual assessment.
The point of the survey is to exploit the workers, under the guise of promoting "customer satisfaction."
posted by velvet winter at 5:38 PM on June 22, 2018 [4 favorites]
Take real cabs
Ride bikes
Eat real food
Refuse to participate
Tax the bosses
Fight
posted by eustatic at 6:03 PM on June 22, 2018 [4 favorites]
Ride bikes
Eat real food
Refuse to participate
Tax the bosses
Fight
posted by eustatic at 6:03 PM on June 22, 2018 [4 favorites]
The only driver I've rated less than 5 stars...
posted by Jobst at 2:33 PM on June 22
[+] [!]
You ve missed the point, I think. The violence is in the rating system itself. 3 stars.
posted by eustatic at 6:07 PM on June 22, 2018 [1 favorite]
So I may very likely not get a merit raise this year because some angry white male bank manager in Vermont is pissed off and doesn't give a shit about the consequences of his anger mismanagement.
I don't know that that's exactly anger mismanagement. The problem you describe isn't that guy, the problem is the stupid fucking way that your company uses these surveys (primarily to fuck employees, of course). Your company should:
a) Look at the notes and incorporate that into the review process and information crunching.
b) Recognize that sometimes shit happens and it wasn't even your fault.
'Big Data Taken Wildly Out of Context' is going to be an increasing theme in the coming years. Watch out, everybody.
posted by breakin' the law at 7:24 PM on June 22, 2018 [2 favorites]
I don't know that that's exactly anger mismanagement. The problem you describe isn't that guy, the problem is the stupid fucking way that your company uses these surveys (primarily to fuck employees, of course). Your company should:
a) Look at the notes and incorporate that into the review process and information crunching.
b) Recognize that sometimes shit happens and it wasn't even your fault.
'Big Data Taken Wildly Out of Context' is going to be an increasing theme in the coming years. Watch out, everybody.
posted by breakin' the law at 7:24 PM on June 22, 2018 [2 favorites]
If the service wasn't perfect, what is the morally right thing for the consumer to do?
The morally right thing for the consumer to do - for this reason and many others - is to not use Uber. But you knew that already.
posted by splitpeasoup at 8:55 PM on June 22, 2018 [2 favorites]
The morally right thing for the consumer to do - for this reason and many others - is to not use Uber. But you knew that already.
posted by splitpeasoup at 8:55 PM on June 22, 2018 [2 favorites]
This whole thing is making me mad, and now I realize I probably got a guy fired because I could not give 10 out of 10 for everything because we had a food issue. Server was great and I said so, but when the food had to be sent back...
Never mind. EVERYTHING WAS WONDERFUL AND UTTERLY PERFECT BEST MEAL EVER PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE DO NOT FIRE THE SERVER I DON'T WANT TO BE RESPONSIBLE FOR HIS FIRING JUST BECAUSE YOU SERVED THE FOOD ICE COLD.
Guess I'm not gonna go back to that Round Robin, either.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:00 PM on June 22, 2018
Never mind. EVERYTHING WAS WONDERFUL AND UTTERLY PERFECT BEST MEAL EVER PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE DO NOT FIRE THE SERVER I DON'T WANT TO BE RESPONSIBLE FOR HIS FIRING JUST BECAUSE YOU SERVED THE FOOD ICE COLD.
Guess I'm not gonna go back to that Round Robin, either.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:00 PM on June 22, 2018
breakin' the law: ""Did [person] perform [service] in accordance in accordance with your expectations of [service]? Yes/No." "
The problem is customer expectations are all over the map. Take a typical hotel room rental for example: The spectrum goes from people who demand a two night stay be comped because a light bulb burned out the morning they were checking out thru to people who seem embarrassed to mention (as they are checking out) that the fridge didn't work all week and are genuinely sorry they had to let you know this bad news. You are never going to get a yes from the former; their expectations are completely out of whack and they actually seem to get pleasure out of complaining, making a fuss, and somehow sticking it to the business.
Another example: I've had a customer complain because it took me 8 minutes to come and plunge their toilet at midnight (I'm was the on call guy. 9 minutes earlier I was sleeping. We weren't a 5* concierge type place, more like Motel 6). What the hell dude? Previous to that job it never would have occurred to me to even call for that sort of service in the middle of the night.
Anyone who has ever spent anytime dealing with unfiltered public service has reams of stories like this. It's not uncommon in hotels (in my limited experience) for a front desk report to be sent out weekly with examples from the comment cards and client interactions and if you read between the lines a bit it like 50% "good job team", 25% "things we could improve" and 25% "Look at these assholes". I'm still amazed thinking back of the sheer chutzpah of some people.
posted by Mitheral at 9:13 PM on June 22, 2018 [2 favorites]
The problem is customer expectations are all over the map. Take a typical hotel room rental for example: The spectrum goes from people who demand a two night stay be comped because a light bulb burned out the morning they were checking out thru to people who seem embarrassed to mention (as they are checking out) that the fridge didn't work all week and are genuinely sorry they had to let you know this bad news. You are never going to get a yes from the former; their expectations are completely out of whack and they actually seem to get pleasure out of complaining, making a fuss, and somehow sticking it to the business.
Another example: I've had a customer complain because it took me 8 minutes to come and plunge their toilet at midnight (I'm was the on call guy. 9 minutes earlier I was sleeping. We weren't a 5* concierge type place, more like Motel 6). What the hell dude? Previous to that job it never would have occurred to me to even call for that sort of service in the middle of the night.
Anyone who has ever spent anytime dealing with unfiltered public service has reams of stories like this. It's not uncommon in hotels (in my limited experience) for a front desk report to be sent out weekly with examples from the comment cards and client interactions and if you read between the lines a bit it like 50% "good job team", 25% "things we could improve" and 25% "Look at these assholes". I'm still amazed thinking back of the sheer chutzpah of some people.
posted by Mitheral at 9:13 PM on June 22, 2018 [2 favorites]
When given a tablet by a eatery to rate your service, simply pour your glass of water on it. Then tip well. Encourage others to do the same. Feel free to 'make it look like an accident'.
Pass it on.
posted by el io at 9:15 PM on June 22, 2018
Pass it on.
posted by el io at 9:15 PM on June 22, 2018
I find it very gross that they would hold food stuff against someone who under no circumstances should be touching the food.
Some people just don’t understand the difference, but some people also just want to make their complaint heard and will use the first complaint box they can find. Think about how many shipping complaints you see as product reviews on Amazon.
The CEO of Presto is definitely a sociopath. They think they are solving real-time Big Data problems when dealing with a handful of data points for a particular server or driver.
posted by jimw at 10:20 PM on June 22, 2018 [1 favorite]
Some people just don’t understand the difference, but some people also just want to make their complaint heard and will use the first complaint box they can find. Think about how many shipping complaints you see as product reviews on Amazon.
The CEO of Presto is definitely a sociopath. They think they are solving real-time Big Data problems when dealing with a handful of data points for a particular server or driver.
posted by jimw at 10:20 PM on June 22, 2018 [1 favorite]
Jesus Christ. How much money/time is spent nickel and dime-ing service people that could go to, say, better food? The fuck.
Or maybe to the service worker? Because in the "better food" scenario, it seems like the service worker is still being nickel-and-dimed.
posted by deadbilly at 10:53 PM on June 22, 2018
Or maybe to the service worker? Because in the "better food" scenario, it seems like the service worker is still being nickel-and-dimed.
posted by deadbilly at 10:53 PM on June 22, 2018
I would think some folks had heard of Campbell's law but hey.
Or even Sturgeon's Law.
posted by bryon at 11:17 PM on June 22, 2018 [1 favorite]
Or even Sturgeon's Law.
posted by bryon at 11:17 PM on June 22, 2018 [1 favorite]
“If you drop below a 4.6, then your career becomes a question. Uber or Lyft will reach out to you and let you know that you are on review probation."
The Uber driver I was with last week told me it was 4.8.
posted by AlSweigart at 2:07 AM on June 23, 2018
The Uber driver I was with last week told me it was 4.8.
posted by AlSweigart at 2:07 AM on June 23, 2018
These ratings are the early private sector version of China's social credit score. Imagine when these companies start sharing ratings data with a third party database, which is then bought by Facebook.
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:28 AM on June 23, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by T.D. Strange at 5:28 AM on June 23, 2018 [3 favorites]
I ran into this problem with an Uber where the whole car reeked of B.O. Yes, exactly like the Seinfeld episode.
However, I felt really bad about downrating the driver, because if I gave him anything less than 5 stars, it would mean he'd lose his job. Obviously, he deserved a complaint due to the fact that the car stank to high heaven, but that would mean the driver would lose a source of income.
posted by Delia at 6:19 AM on June 23, 2018 [1 favorite]
However, I felt really bad about downrating the driver, because if I gave him anything less than 5 stars, it would mean he'd lose his job. Obviously, he deserved a complaint due to the fact that the car stank to high heaven, but that would mean the driver would lose a source of income.
posted by Delia at 6:19 AM on June 23, 2018 [1 favorite]
The morally right thing for the consumer to do - for this reason and many others - is to not use Uber. But you knew that already.Bit glib considering that people are talking about their medical providers forcing them to fill out these surveys.
Every time I submit a maintenance request to the landlord I also get a survey like that. I guess I should boycott having a working toilet?
posted by inconstant at 6:46 AM on June 23, 2018 [3 favorites]
Gee. If only there was some way for customers to rate the executives who run the company, rather than the minimum-wage slaves said executives expect miracles and more from.
posted by Thorzdad at 7:41 AM on June 23, 2018 [6 favorites]
posted by Thorzdad at 7:41 AM on June 23, 2018 [6 favorites]
Those surveys on the receipts? I always fill them out and use the "additional comments" to advocate for the hourly workers. Helps to look up average wages for places I am all the time like my local drugstore.
posted by Lesser Shrew at 8:06 AM on June 23, 2018
posted by Lesser Shrew at 8:06 AM on June 23, 2018
Bit glib considering that people are talking about their medical providers forcing them to fill out these surveys.
This is one of the many reasons I'm leaving my current job. A colleague got lectured because she got a "bad" survey. It was 89%, she got dinged because central scheduling gave the person the wrong time for the appointment and he had to wait 30 minutes. The survey clearly stated the point of miscommunication was outside of the provider's control.
My company also clearly doesn't care about the surveys except as a way to ding their employees because we never hear about the good ones. I was never told about my survey results until I asked: "Oh, you're fine, you always get good scores. You're the highest rated in the area."
They also do a lot of "analysis" and then institute new rules to "improve" our services. So, we have to schedule people within 2 days of contact. But a lot of people I see schedule their appointment more than two days out so they can arrange for transportation or get a bunch of stuff done in the area at the same time. Now everyday we get "calls to action" to get people who booked out in sooner. Sure, we can let management know that this person specifically requested that date and time, but they don't actually pay any attention and the next day they're asking us again to reschedule the same people.
I think it's because a lot of people above the regional level have never done our jobs. They're clueless as to how things work on the ground, and how regional differences in clientele can make some ideas that work for some areas a disaster for others.
Basically, why actually listen to people: your employees, your clientele, when you can look at numbers!
posted by ghost phoneme at 9:21 AM on June 23, 2018 [2 favorites]
This is one of the many reasons I'm leaving my current job. A colleague got lectured because she got a "bad" survey. It was 89%, she got dinged because central scheduling gave the person the wrong time for the appointment and he had to wait 30 minutes. The survey clearly stated the point of miscommunication was outside of the provider's control.
My company also clearly doesn't care about the surveys except as a way to ding their employees because we never hear about the good ones. I was never told about my survey results until I asked: "Oh, you're fine, you always get good scores. You're the highest rated in the area."
They also do a lot of "analysis" and then institute new rules to "improve" our services. So, we have to schedule people within 2 days of contact. But a lot of people I see schedule their appointment more than two days out so they can arrange for transportation or get a bunch of stuff done in the area at the same time. Now everyday we get "calls to action" to get people who booked out in sooner. Sure, we can let management know that this person specifically requested that date and time, but they don't actually pay any attention and the next day they're asking us again to reschedule the same people.
I think it's because a lot of people above the regional level have never done our jobs. They're clueless as to how things work on the ground, and how regional differences in clientele can make some ideas that work for some areas a disaster for others.
Basically, why actually listen to people: your employees, your clientele, when you can look at numbers!
posted by ghost phoneme at 9:21 AM on June 23, 2018 [2 favorites]
Is there a Muggr app to rate a street robbery?
Oh man... (rushes off to start coding). Riches here I come!
I get this silly "give us an excellent rating or we're in trouble" from my Toyota dealer, because apparently if they don't get top ratings then they get calls from Head Office. They forget that for us Brits "very good" is about as far as it goes, and "delighted" is something we tend to reserve for occasions rather more special than a car service.
My favo(u)rite one was the HR dept of a large corporate who wanted me to rate some students I had on a course, and the evaluation was of the "met expectations" and "exceeded expectations" variety. This was apparently because they didn't like the idea of passing and failing, or grades.
One student was notably hopeless, so I graded him "exceeded expectations". I'd thought at the start that he wasn't going to do well, and well... he exceeded my expectations. HR was not amused.
posted by 43rdAnd9th at 9:39 AM on June 23, 2018 [4 favorites]
Oh man... (rushes off to start coding). Riches here I come!
I get this silly "give us an excellent rating or we're in trouble" from my Toyota dealer, because apparently if they don't get top ratings then they get calls from Head Office. They forget that for us Brits "very good" is about as far as it goes, and "delighted" is something we tend to reserve for occasions rather more special than a car service.
My favo(u)rite one was the HR dept of a large corporate who wanted me to rate some students I had on a course, and the evaluation was of the "met expectations" and "exceeded expectations" variety. This was apparently because they didn't like the idea of passing and failing, or grades.
One student was notably hopeless, so I graded him "exceeded expectations". I'd thought at the start that he wasn't going to do well, and well... he exceeded my expectations. HR was not amused.
posted by 43rdAnd9th at 9:39 AM on June 23, 2018 [4 favorites]
sometimes when i am feeling bad about myself or the world, I seek solace in my perfect eBay feedback
posted by Morpeth at 9:55 AM on June 23, 2018 [5 favorites]
posted by Morpeth at 9:55 AM on June 23, 2018 [5 favorites]
How has it become an expectation that customers should constantly provide feedback at all? That’s assigning work to me, the customer. If (e.g.) a restaurant wants me to rate my server or fill out a survey, then discount my meal to compensate for the time, thought and labor I’m providing to you by completing a form. My time, person and effort are not limitless and free, to me or anyone else. That I should continually do free work for random corporations is a presumption that I reject, and it’s really strange to me that this has become an expectation or norm in the first place.
posted by LooseFilter at 10:39 AM on June 23, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by LooseFilter at 10:39 AM on June 23, 2018 [3 favorites]
How has it become an expectation that customers should constantly provide feedback at all?
Because 90% of contemporary online life is composed of various forms of data entry for the commercial benefit of someone else.
posted by rhizome at 10:45 AM on June 23, 2018 [5 favorites]
Because 90% of contemporary online life is composed of various forms of data entry for the commercial benefit of someone else.
posted by rhizome at 10:45 AM on June 23, 2018 [5 favorites]
Should have written: how have we accepted the expectation—that was my actual question, not the literal ‘how.’ Many of the comments in this thread indicate acceptance of an obligation to provide free labor, on a regular and ongoing basis. To me, the normalization of that is a symptom of how sick from uncontrolled capitalism and commodification we all are. To a frightening degree, we think of ourselves as the roles that we play in a system of economic exchange: I am a consumer, a customer, before I’m a person.
We’ve accepted commodification of ourselves, and since that’s the case I try to be more clear-eyed about it, not less. If a business wants feedback from me, fine, but pay me for the value I’m providing. It’s what I did that brought me to the transaction in the first place, I’m just trying to treat them as I am treated.
posted by LooseFilter at 11:09 AM on June 23, 2018 [3 favorites]
We’ve accepted commodification of ourselves, and since that’s the case I try to be more clear-eyed about it, not less. If a business wants feedback from me, fine, but pay me for the value I’m providing. It’s what I did that brought me to the transaction in the first place, I’m just trying to treat them as I am treated.
posted by LooseFilter at 11:09 AM on June 23, 2018 [3 favorites]
Should have written: how have we accepted the expectation—that was my actual question, not the literal ‘how.’
90% of that data entry is in a social context, 9% of the remaining being shipping and payment details, and the last 1% are bloggers. So while it is data entry, it's also participating in human relationships. This used to be done primarily through speech and sometimes postal mail, but now it's online and that's the first time every utterance and interaction could be recorded. Until the turn of the century, extracting the business value of your thoughts and feelings required paying you $100/hr to participate in a focus group.
That is, the "how" is through its double-role as social interaction, which masquerades the business side.
posted by rhizome at 11:16 AM on June 23, 2018
90% of that data entry is in a social context, 9% of the remaining being shipping and payment details, and the last 1% are bloggers. So while it is data entry, it's also participating in human relationships. This used to be done primarily through speech and sometimes postal mail, but now it's online and that's the first time every utterance and interaction could be recorded. Until the turn of the century, extracting the business value of your thoughts and feelings required paying you $100/hr to participate in a focus group.
That is, the "how" is through its double-role as social interaction, which masquerades the business side.
posted by rhizome at 11:16 AM on June 23, 2018
I love that y'all are empathetic, but do not panic.
I drive for Lyft sometimes and it is not the case that anything less than five stars equals end of employment. Only drivers with consistently low scores face repercussions. What you don't want to do is give your driver you liked a three or four star rating because of some trifling bullshit: a previous rider left an empty soda bottle in the drink holder, traffic made us get the destination slower than projected, etc. Do not downgrade because of "room to improve." Downgrade because of failure or ill performance only.
Drivers get a report weekly and as long as their ratings aren't consistently low, they're fine.
What you can do, if you want to be a good and helpful person is inflate your ratings. That way, when we take our just-washed, just-vacuumed 2018 car with a clean interior to pick someone up and they give us four stars because "car could have been cleaner" it will balance. Assume other passengers are dicks. Assume tips are lower than makes sense and that people routinely give inexplicably low ratings that must be overcome.
But do not assume "I have to tolerate everything and give everyone five stars or else I will cost working people their jobs." You can give the guy with the BO car three stars. It will be low enough to be a drag on his rating, but not so low that if it was a fluke or you were alone on that one and no one else had the same experience that he/she can't overcome it and keep on working.
So basically, what I am saying is add one star to what your gut says. That will work fine. The enemy of the ride share driver isn't the passenger who has legit complaints, it's the passenger who gives three stars when they cannot actually state anything they didn't like, they just think you didn't wow them. It's the passenger who gives four stars because they've "seen better."
posted by DirtyOldTown at 1:19 PM on June 23, 2018 [12 favorites]
I drive for Lyft sometimes and it is not the case that anything less than five stars equals end of employment. Only drivers with consistently low scores face repercussions. What you don't want to do is give your driver you liked a three or four star rating because of some trifling bullshit: a previous rider left an empty soda bottle in the drink holder, traffic made us get the destination slower than projected, etc. Do not downgrade because of "room to improve." Downgrade because of failure or ill performance only.
Drivers get a report weekly and as long as their ratings aren't consistently low, they're fine.
What you can do, if you want to be a good and helpful person is inflate your ratings. That way, when we take our just-washed, just-vacuumed 2018 car with a clean interior to pick someone up and they give us four stars because "car could have been cleaner" it will balance. Assume other passengers are dicks. Assume tips are lower than makes sense and that people routinely give inexplicably low ratings that must be overcome.
But do not assume "I have to tolerate everything and give everyone five stars or else I will cost working people their jobs." You can give the guy with the BO car three stars. It will be low enough to be a drag on his rating, but not so low that if it was a fluke or you were alone on that one and no one else had the same experience that he/she can't overcome it and keep on working.
So basically, what I am saying is add one star to what your gut says. That will work fine. The enemy of the ride share driver isn't the passenger who has legit complaints, it's the passenger who gives three stars when they cannot actually state anything they didn't like, they just think you didn't wow them. It's the passenger who gives four stars because they've "seen better."
posted by DirtyOldTown at 1:19 PM on June 23, 2018 [12 favorites]
Until the turn of the century, extracting the business value of your thoughts and feelings required paying you $100/hr to participate in a focus group.
Now they've got people taking quizzes like this for entertainment: Shop At H&M And We'll Tell You Which Fandom You Should Join, How Many Of These Netflix Shows Have You Binged? and Eat At Chili's And We'll Tell You The First Letter Of Your True Love's Name. I'm sure that data is packaged and sold and cross-referenced with your social media profiles.
posted by AFABulous at 2:30 PM on June 23, 2018 [4 favorites]
Now they've got people taking quizzes like this for entertainment: Shop At H&M And We'll Tell You Which Fandom You Should Join, How Many Of These Netflix Shows Have You Binged? and Eat At Chili's And We'll Tell You The First Letter Of Your True Love's Name. I'm sure that data is packaged and sold and cross-referenced with your social media profiles.
posted by AFABulous at 2:30 PM on June 23, 2018 [4 favorites]
I once went on a date with a guy who'd taken Uber to get there; he opened by telling me proudly that he'd given a bad rating because the driver hadn't been enough of a conversationalist for his liking. Shortest date I've ever had.
Nosedive doesn't seem so far away, really.
posted by lwb at 8:51 AM on June 24, 2018 [1 favorite]
Nosedive doesn't seem so far away, really.
posted by lwb at 8:51 AM on June 24, 2018 [1 favorite]
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