I don't feel so good ...
July 3, 2018 11:09 AM   Subscribe

This post was deleted for the following reason: Poster's Request -- loup



 


I Asked an Expert if Thanos Is Right - Spoiler: He's not.

Well, he's half right.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 11:20 AM on July 3, 2018 [33 favorites]


I haven't seen Infinity War and don't plan on ever seeing Infinity War but for some reason last night I had a dream that I was watching Infinity War and now I'm furious at my brain for wasting precious dreamtime watching fucking Infinity War.
posted by Atom Eyes at 11:26 AM on July 3, 2018 [24 favorites]


So you're saying Infinity War was everything you dreamed it would be.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 11:29 AM on July 3, 2018 [39 favorites]


I'm actually saying I don't feel so good...
posted by Atom Eyes at 11:34 AM on July 3, 2018 [18 favorites]


Anyone with the slogan "Thanos Was Right" will get even more side-eye from me than the "Killmonger Was Right" t-shirts.

On the other hand, anyone with "Nakia Was Right" or "Shuri Was ALWAYS Right" gets a high-five.
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 11:37 AM on July 3, 2018 [21 favorites]




[ main link is nsfw due to thanos erotic fanfic, but it was reddit, so what did I expect ]
posted by benzenedream at 11:45 AM on July 3, 2018 [4 favorites]


The original form of the "X Did Nothing Wrong" meme was "Hitler Did Nothing Wrong". Just FYI.
posted by tobascodagama at 11:47 AM on July 3, 2018 [5 favorites]


I actually own a magneto was right t-shirt.
posted by Homo neanderthalensis at 11:51 AM on July 3, 2018 [5 favorites]


Comicbook Thanos is an Incel.
posted by Artw at 11:51 AM on July 3, 2018 [9 favorites]


I actually own a magneto was right t-shirt.

Magnito had some valid points.

(...is a T-Shirt I own)
posted by Artw at 11:53 AM on July 3, 2018 [7 favorites]


*scrutinizes Cortex, specifically his hands*
posted by Fizz at 11:53 AM on July 3, 2018 [3 favorites]


Oh I see we’ve covered that.
posted by Artw at 11:53 AM on July 3, 2018 [2 favorites]


According to some people's theories, Thanos wasn't wrong: It was the screenwriters, who ignored all the ways Thanos could've been/should've been stopped.
posted by nubs at 11:55 AM on July 3, 2018 [1 favorite]


One other thing that bothers me about the Thanos bit is that species is never really taken into account.

Somehow "half the universe", on Earth, wound up meaning "half the humans" (or about 0.05% of the planet's biomass). It didn't count trees, bacteria, fungus, insects, cattle, birds, etc. and just glossed right over the issue. Of course, along with water and air itself, those are the very resources that he thinks are threatened by overpopulation of... the other species that aren't resources, which just isn't specified in any way.

And surely not every planet and every sentient race in the MCU is in a similar situation to Titan or Earth. Even past Earth isn't like that; would wiping out half of the human race during the Bronze Age really have done anything useful?

It was a stupid plot.
posted by Foosnark at 11:55 AM on July 3, 2018 [9 favorites]


MetaFilter: nsfw due to thanos erotic fanfic
posted by Halloween Jack at 11:56 AM on July 3, 2018 [17 favorites]


According to some people's theories, Thanos wasn't wrong: It was the screenwriters, who ignored all the ways Thanos could've been/should've been stopped.

Those people are generally dumbasses.
posted by Artw at 11:56 AM on July 3, 2018 [3 favorites]


I agree, Artw, and have been developing some ideas on future uses of the Infinity Gauntlet.
posted by nubs at 12:01 PM on July 3, 2018 [2 favorites]


So Thanos is a charismatic leader with a fanatically loyal following and a plan he’s convinced is genius but doesn’t stand up to even cursory analysis and will cause untold suffering and problems , and he’s got the power to carry this plan out and is so smugly superior he can be reasoned with? I don’t see how this story is relevant to our times. (I stole this idea from Max Tempkin)
posted by Capn at 12:05 PM on July 3, 2018 [13 favorites]


Heads-up that you can still discuss Infinity War on FanFare if you want to dip in (comment thread includes links to fanfic by The Whelk).
posted by brainwane at 12:08 PM on July 3, 2018 [2 favorites]


Every time I see the word 'Thanos' I initially think people are referring to Theranos, and it confuses me for a second.
posted by Atom Eyes at 12:08 PM on July 3, 2018 [18 favorites]


Theranos just makes half your money disappear.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 12:15 PM on July 3, 2018 [45 favorites]


It was a stupid plot.

Thanos is not called the Mad Titan for nothing. He's not Mad as in "pissed off", he's Mad as in out of his mind. Rationally, his plan makes no sense and won't solve anything. That isn't the point; the point is that (a) the plan is an immediate threat and (b) Thanos, despite his irrationality about the plan to kill half of "everything" still has the strength & ability, in terms of will, skill, and resources, to pull it off.

In other words, the heroes can't fight him with logic and by extension, we - the audience - can't fight the premise with logic either.

What Infinity War does that is interesting and good is it gives Thanos the same fundamental arc that the heroes usually get in their movies - to realize their full potential and power, they usually have to sacrifice something or gain some insight into themselves or stay true to some promise or some such. Tony Stark learns some humility. T'Challa breaks with the past of Wakanda. Thor learns that to lead means being willing to sacrifice. And so on (Captain America is a bit of an exception; his arc is usually having to remember that listening to his moral conviction is the right path, always - he doesn't need to change, the world does).

So Thanos gets the arc that we are used to seeing the heroes get, generally (I think there's some problems with its execution). With the exception of Starlord (and note that Starlord's arc is frustrated in this film - he does the unthinkable thing, keeps his promise, and is not rewarded for it), I don't think we see any of the heroes get anything like it in this movie - Captain America makes his stand (and is flicked aside); Thor continues to be willing to sacrifice; and so forth. We aren't supposed to like Thanos, but the fact that the script messes with the usual journey in this way has fucked with some people's heads - Thanos did the things that check of the boxes, he achieved his goal, and therefore we have a section of fandom that wants to interpret him as being a "good guy", even if it's somewhat tongue-in-cheek.

Now, I suspect in Avenger 4 - The Snappening we will see fuller arcs for our usual heroes, and balance will be restored.
posted by nubs at 12:18 PM on July 3, 2018 [21 favorites]


I don't understand the post or any of the comments so far. Is it because I didn't see Infinity War?
posted by Liquidwolf at 12:19 PM on July 3, 2018


It took me an embarrassing amount of time to figure out this wasn't a message board for Theranos investors. I still don't understand any of it. But, I no longer expect to, so that's okay. Assuming this is a fun thing, as it appears to be, cheers!
posted by eotvos at 12:20 PM on July 3, 2018 [2 favorites]


No, it's because you'd need a TV.
posted by axiom at 12:21 PM on July 3, 2018 [11 favorites]


I don't understand the post or any of the comments so far.

I think it's this: the plot of one of those damned superhero movies is that the bad guy wants to kill half of every species, and the reddit joke (har har) is that the moderator of some reddit group wants to ban half of the members, and this mefi post is here to tell us about that reddit joke.

Maybe it would have been easier to figure out (and funnier) if the mefi moderators weren't deleting half of the comments in this post.
posted by pracowity at 12:31 PM on July 3, 2018 [13 favorites]


MetaFilter: I'm furious at my brain for wasting precious dreamtime watching fucking Infinity War.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 12:33 PM on July 3, 2018 [2 favorites]


The reddit group is dedicated to the proposition (whether in earnest or tongue-in-cheek seems to be up to individual preference) that the Cosmic Malthusian bad guy had the right idea and should have been allowed to do his thing without opposition.

Shockingly, not having seen the movie that the link references is, in fact, a detriment to understanding the post. Lots of stuff here works like that, just not always in reference to movies as opposed to politics, literature, history, etc.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 12:35 PM on July 3, 2018 [9 favorites]


Thanos is not called the Mad Titan for nothing. He's not Mad as in "pissed off", he's Mad as in out of his mind. Rationally, his plan makes no sense and won't solve anything.

But it sounds superficially rational, or at least no less rational than any other supervillain plan, which basically guarantees that the "ya but he's insane tho" thing is not going to come across very well.

It was more obvious in the original Infinity Gauntlet arc, where he was just murdering at random to impress a girl (who happened to be the cosmic personification of death as a concept).
posted by tobascodagama at 12:37 PM on July 3, 2018 [5 favorites]


Thanos did the things that check of the boxes, he achieved his goal, and therefore we have a section of fandom that wants to interpret him as being a "good guy", even if it's somewhat tongue-in-cheek.

Or not at all tongue in cheek. As I said above, the meme being referenced here is "Hitler Did Nothing Wrong", which is a classic 4chanism. And we all know that 4chan's "ironic" love of real-life genocidal mass murders is actually genuine. The same applies here.

I mean, I don't doubt that there are those who participate in justifying Thanos' actions as a mere intellectual exercise for the fun of it. But it's an intellectual exercise in justifying genocide. You know, as a joke! It's a joke that the universe would be better off if we just killed half of all sentient beings! Hahaha, hilarious.
posted by tobascodagama at 12:42 PM on July 3, 2018 [12 favorites]


Its some dumb ass fedor wearers idea of a “rational” plan, which he’d argue for at length on Reddit no doubt.

As such it’s actually a pretty great update of MRA Thanos from the comics, as it’s basically the same asshole a few years later.
posted by Artw at 12:45 PM on July 3, 2018 [8 favorites]


But it sounds superficially rational, or at least no less rational than any other supervillain plan, which basically guarantees that the "ya but he's insane tho" thing is not going to come across very well.

It came across well to me, as someone not all that well versed in the comics backlore. I could swear that the fact is called attention to early on, either by Bruce or by Gamora, but it could be I don't remember correctly. I could also just be weird.

I mean, I don't doubt that there are those who participate in justifying Thanos' actions as a mere intellectual exercise for the fun of it. But it's an intellectual exercise in justifying genocide. You know, as a joke! It's a joke that the universe would be better off if we just killed half of all sentient beings! Hahaha, hilarious.

Which is a very fair point, and I didn't communicate well the fact that it is a distasteful exercise in dark humor at best.
posted by nubs at 12:47 PM on July 3, 2018 [1 favorite]


Every time I see the word 'Thanos' I initially think people are referring to Theranos, and it confuses me for a second.

I'm not saying you're right, but if Avengers 3 part 2 doesn't feature The Bood Unicorn, I am dissapoint.
posted by wotsac at 12:56 PM on July 3, 2018 [2 favorites]


And also the particular flawed rationalization Thanos uses -- "Look, things seemed bad on this one planet, then I killed half the people, and now they seem better, so I definitely deserve the credit for that and that proves I should do it everywhere" -- is worth calling out as bullshit because it gets used in the real world.
posted by straight at 1:14 PM on July 3, 2018 [4 favorites]


OK, minor Thanos technical question. What happened to all of the populations he halved before he got the infinity Gauntlet. Did they just get reduced to 1/4 (not accounting for births since the initial halving)? Gamorra's Planet, the Asgardians, etc... Maybe that is why Thor survived, he had already been through a halving. Or he is doubly lucky to have survived both.
posted by Badgermann at 1:22 PM on July 3, 2018 [1 favorite]


As such it’s actually a pretty great update of MRA Thanos from the comics, as it’s basically the same asshole a few years later.

It's a pretty neat rework of what it means for a cosmic nutjob to be fixated on death, in a setting where death is still a metaphysical concept and not a silent, purple-robed skeleton lady with inexplicable boobs. Once he defeats the heroes he could do literally anything but he kills a bunch of people because he's decided that mass slaughter is an intrinsic good. The fact that he's deluded himself into the pretense that he finds the killing unpleasant-but-necessary even while he refuses to consider any other use for omnipotence is a nice character touch that I wish had been expanded on a bit more.
posted by Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish at 1:29 PM on July 3, 2018 [4 favorites]


Somehow "half the universe", on Earth, wound up meaning "half the humans" (or about 0.05% of the planet's biomass). It didn't count trees, bacteria, fungus, insects, cattle, birds, etc. and just glossed right over the issue.

Thanos is making a (terrible) economic argument, so he targets only the universe's economic actors, its rational beings.

(Aristotle distinguishes between "rational" souls (belonging to people), "sensitive" souls (animals), and "nutritive" souls (miscellaneous). With the Soul Stone and the Mind Stone combined, Thanos could identify the rational souls for culling while sparing the merely sensitive and nutritive souls. That this worked, apparently, has massive implications for the philosophy of mind. The director's cut will probably tease that out a bit more.)

(DISCLAIMER: Thanos is an edgelord dumbass, and I do not endorse his shitty plan.)
posted by Iridic at 1:32 PM on July 3, 2018 [9 favorites]


I don't kow much about /r/… will those users be banned from just the subreddit or from entire reddit? The latter would actually be kinda funny.
posted by farlukar at 1:37 PM on July 3, 2018 [1 favorite]


Just the sub.
posted by brundlefly at 1:42 PM on July 3, 2018


They will be hellbanned from the entire Internet until Avengers 3 Part 2.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 1:47 PM on July 3, 2018 [3 favorites]


It was a stupid plot.

Well, based on my (admittedly vague, so maybe I'm just wrong here) understanding of the original comics, the original motive behind his plan wasn't to sacrifice half the universe to save the other half from some impending Malthusian catastrophe. He just flat out had a huge crush on some goddess of death or another, and figured killing half the universe would be a spiffy way to get her attention. Sort of the divine level version of standing outside her window with a boom box over his head.

So that's actually more stupid than what they went with.
posted by Naberius at 1:50 PM on July 3, 2018


Weirdest people on the internet are the ones actually lining for Adam Warlock.
posted by Artw at 1:54 PM on July 3, 2018


On the other hand, if we could choose half of the world’s population to go into a deep, relaxing slumber, with no ill after-effects, lasting for...oh...a few years, that’d be okay?

Just so, you know, they’d be gently out of action for a little while?

Because I’ve got a list...
posted by darkstar at 2:09 PM on July 3, 2018 [1 favorite]


Um excuse me but any schoolchild could tell you that the name of the follow-up to Avengers: Infinity War can only be Avengers: Infinity Plus One War
posted by ckape at 2:18 PM on July 3, 2018 [18 favorites]


Avengers: Infinity Times Infinity War is infinitely better.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 2:34 PM on July 3, 2018 [2 favorites]


darkstar: So, not so much "Thanos was right" as "Thanos was overzealous and politically naive"?
posted by Grimgrin at 2:47 PM on July 3, 2018 [2 favorites]


On the other hand, if we could choose half of the world’s population to go into a deep, relaxing slumber, with no ill after-effects, lasting for...oh...a few years, that’d be okay?

I'd settle for one Tuesday in Autumn.
posted by dances with hamsters at 3:05 PM on July 3, 2018 [7 favorites]


Could we redirect our discussion to a profound authentic comic book hero?
posted by sammyo at 3:44 PM on July 3, 2018


What happened to all of the populations he halved before he got the infinity Gauntlet. Did they just get reduced to 1/4 (not accounting for births since the initial halving)?

Getting halved again means they’re doubly saved.
posted by ejs at 4:21 PM on July 3, 2018


If only our intrepid heroes had thought to show Honey, I Shrunk the Kids to Thanos before he assembled his blingfist.
posted by grandiloquiet at 5:41 PM on July 3, 2018


I would have preferred boom box thanos plot. At least there’s no out-thinking it. He would have done something horrible for a personal reason. He’s evil, end of story. But in this case, we get to try to ignore gaping plot holes and make up reasons why he could be so stupid. It’s pretty infuriating. Normally I’m all for villains having depth and not being “just evil” but in this case, they made more problems than they solved.
posted by greermahoney at 5:48 PM on July 3, 2018 [1 favorite]




The difference between the "Magneto Was Right" crowd and the "Thanos Did Nothing Wrong" group is that the Magneto Was Right people generally acknowledge Magneto did plenty wrong, but still think he was right ideologically (in that respectability politics won't achieve equality) and factually (in his predictions of what humans would do to mutants given the chance), even if not morally. Thanos was just wrong, ideologically, factually, and morally.
posted by brook horse at 6:50 PM on July 3, 2018 [11 favorites]


Malcom X/MLK comparisons for pairs of fictional characters have very much fallen out of favour, for good reason, but Magnetos repeatedly been set up as the Marvel Malcolm X as regards the mutant minority.

Thanks is... I dunno, bullshit Space Stalin?
posted by Artw at 7:09 PM on July 3, 2018 [1 favorite]


I Asked an Expert if Thanos Is Right - Spoiler: He's not.

Hmm. I'm not convinced. The expert seems to make no room in his calculations for the other lifeforms that we share ("share") the planet with. Certainly humankind could continue to grow and we could all get enough to eat and capture all the energy of the sun, but at what cost? In and of itself, humanity merely sustaining itself efficiently is not an optimal outcome, if it is at the expense of everything else that is alive.
posted by turbid dahlia at 7:09 PM on July 3, 2018


My comic book fan friends tell me that Thanos was trying to woo Lady Death so that she may grant him eternal rest, which sounds way cooler than some warmed-over Malthus.
posted by Apocryphon at 8:23 PM on July 3, 2018 [2 favorites]


I walked out of the film thinking about how Thanos's motivations were unbelievable. Except it turns out a lot of real, live people unironically believe them. Reminds me of the saying, "truth's stranger than fiction because fiction's obligated to make sense." ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
posted by Emily's Fist at 11:07 PM on July 3, 2018 [4 favorites]


Anyone want to have a sidebar discussion about the big plan from the cabal in the UK tv series Utopia?
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:52 AM on July 4, 2018


It was a stupid plot.

Of course it was a stupid plot. Not like turning humanity into dinosaurs. Who would want to kill half of humanity when you can rewrite DNA on the fly and turn people into dinosaurs? It is just self-evident that turning humanity into dinosaurs is the smartest thing you can do. Don't argue with me, you know I'm right.
posted by happyroach at 2:38 PM on July 4, 2018 [4 favorites]


Magneto will necessarily always be the most polarizing supervillain tho'.
posted by eviemath at 7:01 AM on July 5, 2018 [2 favorites]


Until he becomes an omega level mutant and removes the poles, that is.
posted by Artw at 7:02 AM on July 5, 2018 [3 favorites]


« Older What's the most creepily intelligent thing your...   |   Richard Swift, Producer Of Indie Stars And Solo... Newer »


This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments