The season finale of "Ooh er UK!"
July 9, 2018 6:41 AM   Subscribe

An interesting week in the UK, with its new-but-old national (England only) anthem [post]. After Chequers [post], DD (not this one) quits, replaced by Dominic "workhouses for the poor" Raab, with the cabinet in disarray and Boris being Boris. Trump's visit [megathread] means a police redeployment and a large inflatable baby. A civilian dies from Novichok possibly related to the recent poisonings, shops continue to shutter, the heatwave continues [post], ancient sites reveal, CrumpetGate [post], and water supplies diminish. Led by Waistcoat Gareth and Harry Kane and followed by "supporters", the mens footballers are doing well [fanfare], seeds are knocked out of Wimbledon, while electoral law integrity struggles to be heard. [Post title via devonian and twitter, and explained] Ooh I say!
posted by Wordshore (258 comments total) 40 users marked this as a favorite
 
My friends in North London report three-ship US Marine V-22 Osprey formations clattering across the skies, which has a suitably apocalyptic feel.
posted by Devonian at 6:51 AM on July 9, 2018 [10 favorites]


I admit it, only really did this FPP as I wanted to sneak that 'cabinet' tweet-picture in somewhere on MetaFilter (it will only mean something to British people of middle age or older and it made me LOL for a good few minutes, anway).
posted by Wordshore at 6:52 AM on July 9, 2018 [11 favorites]


[incomprehensible screaming]
posted by Happy Dave at 6:57 AM on July 9, 2018 [19 favorites]


And Boris just quit!
posted by lattiboy at 7:04 AM on July 9, 2018 [17 favorites]


Oo'er, Boris, thanks for fucking off. Please continue to do so.
posted by Kitteh at 7:08 AM on July 9, 2018 [10 favorites]


And Boris just quit!

WHAT IS HAPPENING. I don't know how to process my feelings!!

[incomprehensible screaming]
posted by Happy Dave at 2:57 PM on July 9 [1 favorite +] [!]


Oh right yeah that sounds good, thanks.
posted by like_neon at 7:08 AM on July 9, 2018 [22 favorites]


Ridiculous that he was allowed to resign instead of frogmarched out months ago. What an embarrassment.
posted by orrnyereg at 7:09 AM on July 9, 2018 [7 favorites]


It’s just annoying that he got the opportunity to resign — presumably pretending a point of principle — instead of being sacked in disgrace. Or, you know, being laughed out of the room the first time he tried standing for elected office.
posted by Bloxworth Snout at 7:09 AM on July 9, 2018 [5 favorites]


+1 for Carry On reference. +1 for Boris going. -50dkp for continuing with brexit.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 7:09 AM on July 9, 2018 [6 favorites]


strong and stable
posted by Bloxworth Snout at 7:11 AM on July 9, 2018 [8 favorites]


Also, his hair makes me gibber with rage.
posted by orrnyereg at 7:12 AM on July 9, 2018


Is it really healthy to have nothing but contempt for the political classes? I don't think I could do anything else, now, it's baked in, but I do feel a bit tarnished by it.

On the other hand, characters from Carry On films would actually be a significant step up.
posted by Grangousier at 7:17 AM on July 9, 2018 [4 favorites]


B-but isn't Boris just dashing off to reverse ferret and run against May?

as the Grauniad puts it:

As the flamboyant public face of the Vote Leave campaign, Johnson’s departure will deepen the sense of crisis around May, and increase the chances that she could face a vote of no confidence.
posted by chavenet at 7:18 AM on July 9, 2018 [1 favorite]


what a shower of shits.....16 years in UK, 3 members of the family working in the NHS, German/Irish and we are still unclear as to our status post Brexit.
posted by Wilder at 7:21 AM on July 9, 2018 [8 favorites]


Aren’t they pushing her over that glass cliff a little early?

These fuckwits can’t even get that right, huh?
posted by schadenfrau at 7:23 AM on July 9, 2018 [1 favorite]


[incomprehensible screaming]
posted by Happy Dave

Pretty much...
posted by Ziggy500 at 7:24 AM on July 9, 2018


That baby blimp is genius. Sadly, I can't imagine it being done here in the US.
posted by Thorzdad at 7:25 AM on July 9, 2018


Clearly the complete implosion of the Tory party is a brilliant distraction from the imminent anti-Trump protests WAKE UP SHEEPLE
posted by ominous_paws at 7:26 AM on July 9, 2018 [2 favorites]




Blimey.

Wonder what are the odds are on the World Cup being presented to national unity PM Corbyn in two weeks.
posted by brilliantmistake at 7:28 AM on July 9, 2018


How would you cast Carry on Brexiting? Bernard Bresslaw in a wig as Boris? Charles Hawtrey as Gove? Joan Sims as Theresa May? Who would Sid James & Kenneth Williams play?
posted by misteraitch at 7:32 AM on July 9, 2018 [3 favorites]


isn't Boris just dashing off to reverse ferret and run against May?

When isn’t he? ‘Leadership campaign’ is his default resting state.
posted by Catseye at 7:32 AM on July 9, 2018 [9 favorites]


It's a long hot crazy summer... and it's barely July
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 7:33 AM on July 9, 2018 [2 favorites]


Sid James as David Davis, Kenneth Williams as William Rees-Mogg.
posted by Grangousier at 7:39 AM on July 9, 2018 [13 favorites]


@pkandelic: Hearing reports that Liam Fox has handcuffed himself to a radiator inside the Department of International Trade.
posted by Wordshore at 7:41 AM on July 9, 2018 [8 favorites]


Loving my birthday presents, thanks Tories...

Grey rock anti-negotiator - GONE
White privilege hair - GONE

Come on now, how about a Fox?

Is it too much to expect a few timely calls for investigation into Leave funding / Russian influence?
posted by doornoise at 7:43 AM on July 9, 2018 [1 favorite]


It's indicative of how the last five to ten years have gone that I'm looking at the news of David Davis and Boris Johnson resigning from government and immediately thinking "this will make everything still worse somehow, again". It should be good news. But I am certain it will just fuck things up even further.
posted by Dysk at 7:43 AM on July 9, 2018 [37 favorites]


It should be good news. But I am certain it will just fuck things up even further.

That's because it's great news but it just doesn't help. Unless someone with a steel rod up their spine stands up and says "fuck the electorate, the referendum was advisory, I will not drive the country off a cliff out of spite" on either side, the UK is utterly fucked.
posted by Definitely Not Sean Spicer at 7:46 AM on July 9, 2018 [15 favorites]


263 days until "exit day".... hard brexit is looming on the horizon.
posted by Pendragon at 7:47 AM on July 9, 2018


That's because it's great news but it just doesn't help.

It's not just that it isn't helpful, it's actively harmful, as all distractions from the business of not dropping out of the EU like a stone with no deal (or like a terrible analogy - also with no deal - if you prefer) with the looming deadline are actively harmful.
posted by Dysk at 7:51 AM on July 9, 2018 [4 favorites]


And Boris just quit!

Somehow I feel like I'm watching the spread of a new disease that affects only inept politicians and causes them to resign. Up until now it's only been a United States outbreak, but it looks like the virus mutated...
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:56 AM on July 9, 2018 [1 favorite]




Grey rock anti-negotiator - GONE
White privilege hair - GONE


Please: there is a protocol to follow. It's strictly “(adjective) (swearword)(animal)”.
posted by acb at 8:01 AM on July 9, 2018


On a tangent: some thoughts about the World Cup and the Brexit/Gammon nationalist tendency, written as England supporters were jumping on ambulances and smashing up an IKEA.
posted by acb at 8:03 AM on July 9, 2018 [2 favorites]




Someone's going to be holding the poisoned chalice when the music stops. Better drop it now and come slinking back later when things quiet down seems to be the flavour of the day.

The one thing that's cheered me just a little bit today is the name 'Raab C. Brexit', which I hope will catch on.
posted by pipeski at 8:05 AM on July 9, 2018 [7 favorites]


Chaotic evil about to be replaced by lawful evil? Or even just basically competent evil?
posted by daveje at 8:09 AM on July 9, 2018




"this will make everything still worse somehow, again"

That and they won’t have quite fucked off somehow, so we’ll be stuck with them AND their horrible replacements. These shitbags never leave.
posted by Artw at 8:35 AM on July 9, 2018


As one arsehole goes out another comes in.
Meet Dominic -Feminists are "obnoxious bigots" - Raab.
The conservative party just gets nastier and nastier.
posted by adamvasco at 8:36 AM on July 9, 2018 [4 favorites]


> "David Davis 'disagreed with UK's NI Brexit policy'"

Does that mean he can tell the rest of us what it is?
posted by kyrademon at 8:43 AM on July 9, 2018 [14 favorites]




In case some folk are missing it, there is also an FPP solely about the ClusterFuck that is Brexit, as opposed to the MetaClusterFuck that is the UK.

I've just come back from the random evening prayers I occasionally go to (being a scientist Druid, it's ... complicated), and the vicar did an epic prayers of the day section that ranged from praying for common sense to prevail (return?) to the UK government, right through to a parishioner's dog called Patch who sadly passed away. I realised during this that I had far more empathy for Patch than for BoJo or the rest of the cabinet, despite their actions affecting me a lot more.
posted by Wordshore at 9:05 AM on July 9, 2018 [11 favorites]


Meanwhile, outside of London/Brexit-centric political madness... every single main political party in Wales (bar one) is having a leadership election right now.

The Scots, are being entirely sensible, and just saying what happens when they find Nessie.
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 9:14 AM on July 9, 2018 [3 favorites]


If Boris becomes PM I'm claiming asylum in Canada. Him and Cameron deserve a public flogging on Whitehall.

The only worse option would be Jacob Rees Mogg.
posted by derbs at 9:17 AM on July 9, 2018 [1 favorite]


Something I'm only just beginning to appreciate is that there's an exquisite infinity of worse options. That said, JRM PM is among the very worst of them.

(And an infinite number of sets and combinations of the worse options. And so on. A transcendental Cantorian multiverse of misery and pessimism. "Cheer up, it might never happen", but even if it didn't something else would.)
posted by Grangousier at 9:22 AM on July 9, 2018 [3 favorites]


Chatting with an American friend about all things political on both sides of the pond just now, and she's said: "Meanwhile, our guy is heading over there and while he's gone we're going to try to change the locks."
posted by Wordshore at 9:25 AM on July 9, 2018 [23 favorites]


My friends in North London report three-ship US Marine V-22 Osprey formations clattering across the skies, which has a suitably apocalyptic feel.

Three of those suckers flew over my house in New Hampshire earlier this year (I live near an Air National Guard airfield). "Clattering" does not begin to describe the crazy noise they make. It does indeed make one think something terrible is in the works.
posted by schoolgirl report at 9:28 AM on July 9, 2018 [2 favorites]


If England wins the World Cup, Prime Minister May should immediately announce that, due to widespread differences of opinion regarding HM Government's plans for leaving the European Union, the process will be put on hold until a new referendum takes place. The news will barely even register.
posted by East Manitoba Regional Junior Kabaddi Champion '94 at 9:38 AM on July 9, 2018 [5 favorites]


The Scots, are being entirely sensible, and just saying what happens when they find Nessie.
Also what happens when Henry Kissinger discovers Roko's Basilisk. Weird ratio on that one.
posted by rhamphorhynchus at 9:38 AM on July 9, 2018


Wonder what are the odds are on the World Cup being presented to national unity PM Corbyn in two weeks.

Yes, you'd think that would be nice, but could your liver handle all the celebratory boozing?
posted by MartinWisse at 9:48 AM on July 9, 2018


If England wins the World Cup, Prime Minister May should immediately announce that, due to widespread differences of opinion regarding HM Government's plans for leaving the European Union, the process will be put on hold until a new referendum takes place.

Alternatively, they hurry through the second referendum to take place within 24 hours of the victory parade, in the hope that the outpouring of nationalist sentiment and sense of confidence in England's undefeatable destiny results in an increased Leave majority.
posted by acb at 9:48 AM on July 9, 2018 [1 favorite]


Or they just make Gareth Southgate prime minister.
posted by Grangousier at 9:51 AM on July 9, 2018 [1 favorite]


Speaking of Southgate, if I had to suffer, you should too.
posted by MartinWisse at 9:58 AM on July 9, 2018


Is anyone else hoping that if England win the World Cup that we get a new album from The Lightning Seeds out of it?

*looks longingly at his copies of Sense and Cloudcuckooland*
posted by Definitely Not Sean Spicer at 10:07 AM on July 9, 2018 [2 favorites]


Marina Hyde:
Thanks to David Davis and Boris Johnson, England are now one of those World Cup sides that can be described sympathetically as “playing on despite the political turmoil back home”. As the old saying goes: dance like no one’s watching, love like you’ve never been hurt and play a World Cup like your shitshow of a government is about to collapse itself and plunge your country further into the mire.

And you know what? Depending on how much barely charted territory you can handle – England are in the semi-finals of the actual World Cup, after all – it feels great to be that side. Those guys typically pick up a lot of secondary support from people whose own national teams have already gone out. In the bars of Rio, I hope people are beginning to say: “I’m rooting for England now – it’s so sad what their dreadful politicians have done to them. But, you know, in the middle of it all, they just want to play football. It’s a very pure, special thing. They really rise above it with their magical, spellbinding corners. They remind you why it’s called the beautifully planned game. Yup, come on England! WE’RE ALL ENGLISH NOW.” All that in Portuguese, obviously.
posted by Bloxworth Snout at 10:10 AM on July 9, 2018 [18 favorites]


I primarily associate "Ooh er missus" with former children's TV presenter and failed saviour of Top of the Pops, Andi Peters. He always seemed very competent in the Broom Cupboard, so maybe we should get him in as foreign secretary. If he's not available I guess Edd the Duck would still be a significant step up from Johnson, and he doesn't seem to be working much these days.
posted by howfar at 10:19 AM on July 9, 2018 [6 favorites]


. I realised during this that I had far more empathy for Patch than for BoJo or the rest of the cabinet, despite their actions affecting me a lot more.

I have more empathy for patches' SHITS than I do for that shower of nation-wreckers
posted by lalochezia at 10:57 AM on July 9, 2018 [3 favorites]


As news the beloved David Davis had resigned spread, people began to call in sick, pubs emptied and spontaneous protests formed outside Gov buildings up and down the country. A tearful war veteran, covered in medals, whispered "They've taken so much already, they won't take David Davis from me too"
posted by Damienmce at 11:09 AM on July 9, 2018 [7 favorites]


PM May's speech:
- About 90% of the MPs: * laughing every time she tries to say something nice about Boris Johnson *
- May: * tries not to smile, gives up and sits down amidst more laughter *
- Speaker of Parliament: Excuse me, these are important matters.
posted by ahundredjarsofsky at 11:48 AM on July 9, 2018 [5 favorites]


"The referendum was like making a cup of peppermint tea. You had to decide whether to leave the teabag in or take it out. If you leave it in, the cup of tea as a whole is stronger. Even though it appears that the teabag itself is getting weaker, it’s still part of a strong cup of tea. But if you take the teabag out, the cup of tea as a whole is weaker – and the teabag itself goes directly in the bin. That’s essentially it. You’d be amazed at how angry Brexiteers get about it." -James Acaster
posted by Pyrogenesis at 11:49 AM on July 9, 2018 [18 favorites]


I keep waiting for the moment when The Doctor swoops in on his (well, her, now) Tardis, reveals the whole lot of them to be Daleks or Cybermen or some squishy green things and tells them to bugger off.
posted by briank at 12:17 PM on July 9, 2018 [1 favorite]


(I think I made a double traducement up there somewhere - firstly by casting Sid James as Davies - which is a terrible insult to Sid, on reflection; secondly by confusing Jacob Rees-Mogg with his father, which... ehh. My head's not working because I spent half the night trying to get home - Waterloo-ish - from Surrey by train, which is surprisingly difficult these days.)
posted by Grangousier at 12:50 PM on July 9, 2018


Charles Hawtrey as May.
*spits*
They're going to try and hand off the prime ministership to one of their cabal with neither election nor second referendum aren't they?
posted by glasseyes at 12:56 PM on July 9, 2018 [1 favorite]


I keep waiting for the moment when The Doctor swoops in on his (well, her, now) Tardis, reveals the whole lot of them to be Daleks or Cybermen or some squishy green things and tells them to bugger off.

Although they’re definitely not coordinating with an eerie, inhuman single-mindedness.
posted by Bloxworth Snout at 1:00 PM on July 9, 2018 [1 favorite]


There's no grand plan in all of this is there? Its just skittles, all the way down.
posted by infini at 1:02 PM on July 9, 2018 [1 favorite]


Oooh err missus was always Frankie Howerd for me. Titter ye not. Ooooh matron, that was Kenneth WIlliams in Carry On. Ooooh fuck, that's Theresa.
posted by Devonian at 1:03 PM on July 9, 2018 [4 favorites]


Who is Jeremy Hunt?
posted by infini at 1:06 PM on July 9, 2018


There's no grand plan in all of this is there?

Looking back a red, white and blue Brexit was actually the most solid plan put forward by the Gov.
posted by Damienmce at 1:08 PM on July 9, 2018


A better question might be 'Why is Jeremy Hunt.'

He is the Secretary of State (Cabinet Minister) for Health, in the same way that a fox is Secretary of State for Chickens.
posted by reynir at 1:10 PM on July 9, 2018 [11 favorites]


Let's hope he gets his Foreign Ministership together in time for hte Americans
posted by infini at 1:12 PM on July 9, 2018


When he looks back at the end of his life, Jeremy Hunt will find that the only positive lasting contribution he made to British life was to become a new bit of cockney rhyming slang.
posted by Grangousier at 1:14 PM on July 9, 2018 [30 favorites]


I don't know if this should be in the actual Brexit thread, but: I think the loudest Brexiteers imagined the UK as a 51th state of America, very close to the US, much less regulated than the EU and with lower wages, lower taxes and less protections for workers. They also imagined that would be attractive to the US, regardless of whatever government the US would have, because the UK has one of the largest economies in the world. They literally didn't know how tied up the UK economy is with the EU. Because they are stupid. Very stupid.
posted by mumimor at 1:15 PM on July 9, 2018 [21 favorites]


> Something I'm only just beginning to appreciate is that there's an exquisite infinity of worse options. That said, JRM PM is among the very worst of them.
Hmmm… I wonder what the DUP coalition partners would think of a catholic PM.
posted by farlukar at 1:17 PM on July 9, 2018 [2 favorites]


When he looks back at the end of his life, Jeremy Hunt will find that the only positive lasting contribution he made to British life was to become a new bit of cockney rhyming slang.

James Blunt being utterly relieved at this turn of events.
posted by Definitely Not Sean Spicer at 1:23 PM on July 9, 2018 [10 favorites]


When he looks back at the end of his life, Jeremy Hunt will find that the only positive lasting contribution he made to British life was to become a new bit of cockney rhyming slang.

He's had some trouble with that.
posted by Paul Slade at 1:24 PM on July 9, 2018


Who is Jeremy Hunt?

When all of this is over all we will remember is that he used to be the Hulture Secretary.
posted by howfar at 1:24 PM on July 9, 2018 [12 favorites]


because I spent half the night trying to get home - Waterloo-ish - from Surrey by train, which is surprisingly difficult these days.)

Dammit - yes, I should have put the near impossibility of traveling reliably and at reasonable cost on the train network into the post somewhere. Friends from Berlin last week were hoping to travel from Edinburgh to London without booking in advance, and could not comprehend the prices - they thought the currency conversion was out by x10. In the end, as it would have eaten up money they didn't have, they gave up.
posted by Wordshore at 1:28 PM on July 9, 2018


Never mind cabinet power struggles – the Brexiteers’ vision is chilling
Polly Toynbee, The Guardian

Like I said above
posted by mumimor at 1:37 PM on July 9, 2018 [3 favorites]


He is the Secretary of State (Cabinet Minister) for Health Foreign Affairs

FTFY. Got to keep up with things.
posted by ambrosen at 1:52 PM on July 9, 2018


Here I thought mefi’s own cstross’ visions of a U.K. ruled by Nyarlathotep was supposed to be dystopian, but perhaps the Dark Pharaoh would be a nice change...
posted by bouvin at 1:52 PM on July 9, 2018 [5 favorites]


Also what happens when Henry Kissinger discovers Roko's Basilisk. Weird ratio on that one.

I did not RTFA, but since AI fears are always projections of our own worst impulses onto the AI, I assume that Kissinger thinks the AI will secretly bomb Cambodia.
posted by runcibleshaw at 1:53 PM on July 9, 2018 [1 favorite]


James Blunt being utterly relieved at this turn of events.

James Blunt's Twitter>James Blunt's music.
posted by Damienmce at 1:56 PM on July 9, 2018 [7 favorites]


"May: * tries not to smile, gives up and sits down amidst more laughter *"

"Boris Johnson does indeed have a full complement of arms and legs, most of which work most of the time. And all the more splendid for having been made in America!"
posted by thatwhichfalls at 2:00 PM on July 9, 2018 [1 favorite]


Wordshore said Dammit - yes, I should have put the near impossibility of traveling reliably and at reasonable cost on the train network into the post somewhere.

I last lived in the UK in the early 90s, before privatization was a priority. One of my great joys in the 80s was hopping the fence at boarding school, scampering off to the train, and riding to London, there to be lost until either a nun caught me, or I ran out of money. I don't remember paying for trains anywhere, so I probably had a student and eurorail pass, but it was certainly never a cost factor in my running away from the convent.

Were the trains privatized, along with the postal service?
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 2:26 PM on July 9, 2018 [3 favorites]


British Rail was privatised in the mid 90s. The Royal Mail happened a couple of years ago.
posted by rhamphorhynchus at 2:35 PM on July 9, 2018 [2 favorites]


I am sorry to hear that. I wish the UK had watched what a disaster privatizing the commons has been for the U.S.,and avoided it.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 2:51 PM on July 9, 2018 [3 favorites]


...but it was certainly never a cost factor in my running away from the convent.

There are several websites which provide the prices of train tickets. The Train Line is a decent one, so you might want to put in the stations you used, day, time, and see how much it costs now.

There's also ticket barriers, various other enforcement systems, fines- which can be severe - and other punishments nowadays.
posted by Wordshore at 2:51 PM on July 9, 2018 [1 favorite]


Were the trains privatized, along with the postal service?

The rail service is a mess, partly because of privatisation and partly because of massive mismanagement at every level on top of that. Two of the big rail services faced a timetable change they weren't prepared for a couple of months ago and basically just fell over.

I've considered doing an FPP about the Northern Rail situation a couple of times, when it got bad enough that all the rival local papers across the north started co-ordinating their front pages to shout about it (but in honesty it's a massive long-standing mess that I don't even follow the half of, and also I'm hoping Garius will do it).
posted by Catseye at 2:57 PM on July 9, 2018 [15 favorites]


There's also ticket barriers, various other enforcement systems, fines- which can be severe - and other punishments nowadays.

I get that 400 quid for a 40p ticket is ridiculously mean and draconian and I’m on board with that not being anywhere near as cruel but holy shit the rest of it wasn’t really the fault of the charge but more like not being able to handle the fallout.
posted by Definitely Not Sean Spicer at 3:15 PM on July 9, 2018


I've considered doing an FPP about the Northern Rail situation a couple of times...

catseye: I would very much like to see that FPP. The last time I rode on a Northern Rail train was a few years back and therefore before the current crisis. But even then, I was shocked at how ... basic ... the transport was.
posted by Wordshore at 4:05 PM on July 9, 2018 [2 favorites]


Wow, 10pounds for a 25 minute ride, from what has literally has become a bedroom community for London. Like, this is where people forced out of London midmarket are going. Crazy.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 4:47 PM on July 9, 2018 [2 favorites]


Wait, so I'm reading the fines listed by wordshore, and for not having a ticket the fines are minimum of 150% of your weekly income, and up to 700%? I am surely reading that incorrectly, no?
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 5:48 PM on July 9, 2018






The Unteleported Cabinet

(The background painting is that of Ada Lovelace, of all people)
posted by runcifex at 10:37 PM on July 9, 2018


A better question might be 'Why is Jeremy Hunt.'

He is the Secretary of State (Cabinet Minister) for Health, in the same way that a fox is Secretary of State for Chickens.


and a member of the same family of famous typographical errors as Australia's Fuckwit for Health.
posted by flabdablet at 11:01 PM on July 9, 2018




An opportune tweet from the Charity Retail Association, though am not sure I'd trust the pictured people to be in charge of a 50p bric-a-brac stand...
posted by Wordshore at 12:34 AM on July 10, 2018 [1 favorite]


Wow, 10pounds for a 25 minute ride, from what has literally has become a bedroom community for London. Like, this is where people forced out of London midmarket are going. Crazy.

That's assuming your train turns up. And when it does, you can get onto it and find a small space to stand in. See the pretty much relentless news about train services for several months now, or have a look on social media. A random example from the last day or so.
posted by Wordshore at 1:11 AM on July 10, 2018 [3 favorites]


Ten pounds for nearly half an hour into London is supposed to be expensive? The ten minutes from Leamington to Coventry costs over half that, and is much less than half the journey, between two small rubbish stations far away from the expensive capital.
posted by Dysk at 1:28 AM on July 10, 2018 [3 favorites]


Hmmm… I wonder what the DUP coalition partners would think of a catholic PM.

Probably the second-worst option, just ahead of a Labour government.
posted by acb at 1:55 AM on July 10, 2018




Nice observation from that link: "At the time of writing, there are more restrictions about the claims advertisers can make about toothpaste then there are about political campaigns."
posted by rory at 3:07 AM on July 10, 2018 [6 favorites]


Dammit - yes, I should have put the near impossibility of traveling reliably and at reasonable cost on the train network into the post somewhere. Friends from Berlin last week were hoping to travel from Edinburgh to London without booking in advance, and could not comprehend the prices - they thought the currency conversion was out by x10. In the end, as it would have eaten up money they didn't have, they gave up.

I lived in England for 7 years and saw very little of it because when I had a chance to vacation the train trips were so expensive I almost always chose to fly to the continent. The reason why most English seaside resorts are abandoned is that you can fly somewhere sunny for less than it cost to take the train to the coast. Though the seaside resort towns are kind of fantastic in a sad faded grandeur way (Hello Margate!).
posted by srboisvert at 5:25 AM on July 10, 2018 [2 favorites]


'Scathing' is the best word I can think of to describe Fintan O'Toole's column today in the Irish Times, though 'painfully accurate' works too.
"If a deal is to be done at all, the last vestiges of fantasy Brexit will have to be stripped away and what will be left is a state that has negotiated its way from full partnership to the status of a rule-taking satellite of the EU.

When you take away all the heroic elements of Brexit, all the epic thrills of throwing off the oppressor and beginning a new history, what you are left with is just this – a country that has gone to enormous trouble to humiliate itself. Brexit has reached the point where the best possible outcome is the worst of both worlds, a state that is neither in nor out, neither on its own nor part of something larger."
posted by o seasons o castles at 5:59 AM on July 10, 2018 [10 favorites]


So, is it even possible, assuming there was political will, to stop brexit? Like, is there any path that could lead to it not happening?
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 7:35 AM on July 10, 2018


Yes. We say sorry to Europe and promise not to do it again.
posted by Devonian at 7:57 AM on July 10, 2018 [8 favorites]


Who's making that promise, though? On behalf of whom? Because (much as I don't want this to be the case) if I'm Juncker or whoever, I'd look at such a promise and see all the (let's be polite here) Eurosceptic Tories and Labour MPs still sitting quietly on the benches in the background, the continued existence of UKIP, of the redtops, and all of that, and I think to myself "yes YOU are promising YOU won't do it again, but your countrymen? Your promises are worth shit."
posted by Dysk at 8:15 AM on July 10, 2018 [1 favorite]


I think that's the biggest problem. This whole codswallop in the first place was to stop the Eurosceptic Tories from revolting. One would hope that this current omnishambles would teach Tories a lesson about letting the public solve their internal squabbles but I cringe to think of the next contentious issue within the party being thrown to the masses in an effort to stop backbench rebellion and voters defecting to UKIP.
posted by Definitely Not Sean Spicer at 8:21 AM on July 10, 2018


One would hope that this current omnishambles would teach Tories a lesson about letting the public solve their internal squabbles

though to be completely fair, total failure to learn the lessons of history is pretty much a defining characteristic for Tories, who prefer to spend their time trying to recreate some kind of fucked-up Golden Age that has only ever existed in their tiny and inadequate imaginations.

is it even possible, assuming there was political will, to stop brexit?

Yes. There are reasonable arguments to be made that Europe would have to agree, but none that hold water for a complete inability to stop the car before it actually goes over the cliff edge.

Given, of course, the political will. But the political will would appear to be the sticking point.
posted by flabdablet at 8:57 AM on July 10, 2018 [6 favorites]


And if the UK goes out and tries to come back in it won't be with open arms and getting back all the special treatment like they have had over the past 40 years. It will be four freedoms, Schengen, Eurozone, the whole shebang for the UK to get back in. They'll have all the political clout of Slovenia. Why? Because Farage wanted to dick the smug continentals and their "co-operation" while Boris thought he could ride it to being PM.
posted by Definitely Not Sean Spicer at 9:03 AM on July 10, 2018 [6 favorites]


Though can a democracy make a binding promise? Especially one led by the nose by hatemongering sensationalist tabloids and demagogues?

So, in short: theoretically, it is possible. In practice, no.
posted by acb at 9:04 AM on July 10, 2018 [1 favorite]


It will be four freedoms, Schengen, Eurozone, the whole shebang for the UK to get back in.

Bring it on. Schengen would be very convenient. The Euro as well (chances are we won't do any worse under it than any other industrialised Northern European country). And I'll settle for pints of beer being rounded down to 500ml if we get round-pinned electrical plugs and stricter standards for living space and habitability as part of the deal. Heck, make all the signage quadrilingual in French, German and Polish just to rub the gammons' noses in the mess they made.
posted by acb at 9:09 AM on July 10, 2018 [13 favorites]




So, in short: theoretically, it is possible. In practice, no

I don't think it's even theoretically possible in the UK parliamentary system. Parliament is sovereign and cannot be bound by any legal authority, including its own prior authority.

That said, I think it's very likely that if we genuinely backed down now there would be a deal to avoid Brexit. The EU has no desire for the UK to leave, and while it cannot offer the impossible deal that the UK currently imagines it can have, it won't "punish" the UK in direct contravention of its own interests.
posted by howfar at 9:50 AM on July 10, 2018 [2 favorites]


And if the UK goes out and tries to come back in it won't be with open arms and getting back all the special treatment like they have had over the past 40 years.

I dunno, while the other EU negotiators do seem hurt and baffled, there doesn't seem to be a huge amount of antagonism involved. This may be because for the most part they seem to be seasoned and competent diplomats, and more importantly unlike our Westminster government* actual fucking grown-ups.

I mean, like acb I for one would welcome new sensible overcrats, with frictionless travel/currency/safety standards. And for that matter the end of any preferential treatment. 9.99 times out of 9.99 if you're punching above your weight it's cos you're a bully and a dick. And srsly, if there's any country that has been there and done that and needs to change....

Brexit may not be as terrible and crippling for the other EU members as it will be for the UK, some of them will probably benefit considerably from it. But it will directly and immediately damage them, and the EU as a whole, and even the whole idea of the EU. Not to mention they're all fighting their own far-right FSB funded whackajobs as well.

So, well yeah, they may be a dick about it. But probably not, especially if the article 50 notification is found to be void due to all that blatant fraud and disaster profiteering shitgibbons like Aaron Banks did.


* Whoever they are right now, had family over for the last hour so haven't checked yet. The way things were going before I had to go AFK I'm guessing Jimmy Saville has been resurrected, conjoined with Farage, and they now rule the country as God-Emperor.
posted by Buntix at 9:51 AM on July 10, 2018 [7 favorites]


I dunno, while the other EU negotiators do seem hurt and baffled, there doesn't seem to be a huge amount of antagonism involved. This may be because for the most part they seem to be seasoned and competent diplomats, and more importantly unlike our Westminster government* actual fucking grown-ups.

The problem is that rejoining the EU would require the consent of all other members not just the EU signing off on it. Individual governments can often be far more spiteful than the EU council who operate under a near fanatical devotion to centrist pragmatic technocracy.
posted by Definitely Not Sean Spicer at 10:15 AM on July 10, 2018 [3 favorites]


So, here's my thinking. America's mad toddler king looks like he's going to blow up NATO. Wouldn't that be enough impetus for the UK to slam brakes on brexit, before they find themselves a tiny island, alone, facing a country owned in large part by Russian oligarchs?
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 10:20 AM on July 10, 2018


before they find themselves a tiny island, alone, facing a country owned in large part by Russian oligarchs?

I thought the whole point of leaving the EU is because those bleeding hearts kept issuing edicts from up high like don’t take laundered Russian money and the proles actually do have human dignity.
posted by Definitely Not Sean Spicer at 10:23 AM on July 10, 2018 [1 favorite]


America's mad toddler king...

...will be a little confused if he looks out of the window at one particular moment in a few days time.
posted by Wordshore at 10:37 AM on July 10, 2018 [7 favorites]


Ok, that crop circle is the best crop circle.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 11:27 AM on July 10, 2018 [3 favorites]


The problem is that rejoining the EU would require the consent of all other members not just the EU signing off on it. Individual governments can often be far more spiteful than the EU council who operate under a near fanatical devotion to centrist pragmatic technocracy.

True, but there's no real upside for any EU state in Britain leaving. If Britain decided to return to the fold, it would essentially maintain the status quo for all. Other EU members would benefit as Britain would have to give up some goodies like the rebate and some countries might take a bit of a hard line on that. On the general principle of us staying though, it's hard to see where the pushback would come from, particularly at a time when the EU knows it faces external threats from Russia and an unpredictable US.

If we press on with leaving though, the problem of the EU authorities vs member states is much more acute - the EU council would probably still prefer a "pragmatic" Brexit with the least disruption that's consistent with single market rules, but member states might well wish to punish the UK more severely.
posted by crocomancer at 11:48 AM on July 10, 2018 [1 favorite]


Seriously, after today's match, I'm just worrying about his impact on everyone's match watching schedules.
posted by infini at 1:25 PM on July 10, 2018


It's not really about "spite", it's about interests and incentives.

First, every member state wants something or other from the EU. If the EU says "we'd like you to agree to let the UK back in", every state has an incentive to say "yes if you give us X", where X is the most they can possibly get. That's why it takes so long to join the EU: it took 12 years for the UK last time, and is taking even longer now for nations like Macedonia and Alabania with even more veto points.

Second, the EU has a whole host of troublesome members. There are populist governments in Italy and Greece, authoritarian governments in Poland and Hungary, far-right parties in coalition or part-power in Denmark and Austria. If the EU sets the precedent that Article 50 can be invoked and then cancelled if the negotiations turn sour, there's nothing to stop any populist government invoking it on a whim, which risks destablilizing the whole EU.

Basically while the remaining EU members would have preferred the UK not to leave, the UK isn't important enough that it's worth destabilizing the whole thing or forgoing national interests to get it back.

Moreover, if the EU can get a Norway-style soft Brexit deal, there's no great incentive to get the UK back as a full member anyway. Supply chains stay intact, the single market stays as is, money gets paid in, who needs the UK causing trouble on the inside?

The EU is not a person who feels spite or misses the UK emotionally. It's a collection of interests, some in common, some at cross purposes, none of which are particularly well served by the UK rejoining as a full member.
posted by TheophileEscargot at 1:57 PM on July 10, 2018 [10 favorites]


First, every member state wants something or other from the EU. If the EU says "we'd like you to agree to let the UK back in", every state has an incentive to say "yes if you give us X", where X is the most they can possibly get. That's why it takes so long to join the EU: it took 12 years for the UK last time, and is taking even longer now for nations like Macedonia and Alabania with even more veto points.

*Spain walks in, baseball bat held in its right hand hanging behind its back*

Spain, starting down the UK, only utters one single sentence, "hablemos de Gibraltar".
posted by Definitely Not Sean Spicer at 2:23 PM on July 10, 2018


If the EU sets the precedent that Article 50 can be invoked and then cancelled if the negotiations turn sour, there's nothing to stop any populist government invoking it on a whim, which risks destablilizing the whole EU.

At the same time, if the EU makes a deal that seems favourable for the Brexit supporters, other countries may follow that lead in invoking article 50.
posted by I paid money to offer this... insight? at 2:25 PM on July 10, 2018 [2 favorites]


If the EU sets the precedent that Article 50 can be invoked and then cancelled if the negotiations turn sour, there's nothing to stop any populist government invoking it on a whim, which risks destablilizing the whole EU.

That's simply not a risk. The negotiations haven't turned sour because there haven't even been close to anything like negotiations because those Tory twats (emboldened by the head Labour twat) have only just agreed what their objectives are, and they've decided on impossible ones.

I really don't think there's any moral hazard at all in doing what Donald Tusk invited us to do this morning, and withdrawing the notification.
posted by ambrosen at 2:43 PM on July 10, 2018 [7 favorites]


the UK isn't important enough that it's worth destabilizing the whole thing or forgoing national interests to get it back.

The UK is 16% of EU GDP, more than any country other than Germany, roughly the same as the 19 smallest economies (up to and including Austria) combined, which is disproportionately in services that are used internationally. It also includes the most economically important city in Europe. It's important to recognise that the UK isn't a major world power, but it's also important not to overstate the insignificance of the UK.

Beyond that, Brexit itself, particularly a hard Brexit, would be economically and politically highly destabilising to member states, and would remain a possibility throughout negotiations to remain. Member states would be aware that pushing for significant national interests as conditions of continued membership (if they even have the legal power to prevent continued membership, see information on revocability of Art. 50 linked above) would have the possibility of backfiring. The UK may well lose some of its special treatment if it were to climb down, but I don't see a real basis to think that the EU or member states would make it more difficult than absolutely necessary.

Having said that, I'm pretty confident it's not going to happen. The fact that we could probably back away from the precipice and survive mostly unscathed does not give me any reason to think that we will, based upon our idiotic conduct so far.
posted by howfar at 3:28 PM on July 10, 2018 [12 favorites]


It's strange that the UK news is so crowded with Brexit/Cabinet, Trump's Imminent Visit, World Cup, Thai Rescue (obligatory non-UK story), Heatwave, Wimbledon, that the Novichok story is not getting a look-in or even a minor mention in some news programs. Normally, the death of a UK civilian because, probably, they have somehow come across and handled a container of deadly nerve agent that was used on a ex-Russian spy, probably (again) masterminded by the Kremlin, and on UK soil would be a major lead story.

Normally.

But, it's 2018 and normal was a few years ago now, I guess. A few news stories about this:
- Chemical weapon symbol appears in crop circle near Salisbury Novichok site (it's a West Country thing)
- Police: Novichok used in Salisbury and Amesbury could be active for 50 years
- Novichok poisonings: search intensifying to find contaminated item (contains possible manner in which they became contaminated)
posted by Wordshore at 4:26 PM on July 10, 2018 [8 favorites]


Not another one!
posted by pharm at 2:38 AM on July 11, 2018


We just gonna make it an annual thing or what
posted by EndsOfInvention at 3:01 AM on July 11, 2018 [2 favorites]


Not another one!

assumes you mean another resignation, heads straight for the Guardian website as if conditioned
posted by ManyLeggedCreature at 3:02 AM on July 11, 2018


the Conservatives are privately preparing for an October election

Is this some kind of "we know the EU will pull us into BINO and we'll have to go to the country as we'll never get it through" thing? Which I can quite see - in fact, I can't see anything else, barring some kind of collapse beforehand.
posted by Devonian at 3:25 AM on July 11, 2018 [1 favorite]


assumes you mean another resignation, heads straight for the Guardian website as if conditioned

:)

No, it was a reference to this UK voxpop from when the last G.E. was announced.
posted by pharm at 4:05 AM on July 11, 2018 [4 favorites]


SecretAgentSockpuppet: So, is it even possible, assuming there was political will, to stop brexit? Like, is there any path that could lead to it not happening?

The key one in here is "the political will", and it's why we're so fucked. The situation's a clusterfuck. You're a savvy Remain politico with the clout to mount a serious opposition to the Brexit drift, you're going to get monstered for "ignoring the will of the people" and your career is over. You're a savvy Leave politico with the clout to mount a serious opposition to the Brexit drift, you're going to get monstered for selling lies about "sunlit uplands" and your career is over. This self interest means we're left in the care of ideologues and fundamentalists who keep being surprised when fudge cake doesn't survive contact with reality.

May's out of her depth, and has been desperately trying to hold the two wings of the Tory party together, same as every leader since Maastricht and Major's bastards. They've avoided this fundamental schism since then by offloading party politics onto impacts on the nation. Major had so many things sabotaged by them. Hague and IDS were from that wing anyhow.

Cameron blunted the Tory influence in Europe by taking them out of the EPP and grouping with the hard right. Then the fucking idiocy of promising the straight in/out referendum to them, and using the Lib Dems in the coalition as his excuse to not do it, which meant he had no bloody choice but to call it when just the Tories in power. It's obviously nearing tearing point because you've got people like Carswell and Reckless heading off to UKIP, but the schism's put off again by not forcing the point on what "Leave" actually means before calling it, stopping the split forming over Hard/EEA/renegotiate/etc.

Cameron can't keep the two parts together after losing, so he fucks off, May ends up in the hot seat, and we still have the bullshit of "keeping balance in the cabinet" by maintaining numbers of Leave/Remain ministers. I mean, fuck having the most competent person available for one of The Great Offices of state, let's just focus on how they voted in the referendum.... She's fucking buffeted away from a logic driven approach (even if evil fucking racist baiting logic, it's still logic of a sort) - we go from not triggering Article 50 "until out objectives are clear" in mid 2016 to "the first quarter of 2017" for her conference speech in October to keep the Leavers on side. Triggers it, then calls the fucking election to try and give herself enough clout to keep the two warring bastard stepchildren together in the one Tory party, and completely fucks it.

Now she's trying to keep them in one unhappy household, plus the adopted raving lunatics in the DUP. May's trying to tell one side that they can leave the SM/CU despite contradictions with telling the other side that they won't have border checks, and the DUP's 10 MPs are able to stop any deal they don't like. She's been fucking broken by it, and you can tell she's got no political power left, and more fundamentally seems unable to face telling anyone "no, you can't have that". It's been 30 years of trying to keep the conservative party of business together with those "fuck business" hard Brexit fundamentalists, all by putting the burden and damage on the country rather than the party.

Thirty fucking years of putting party unity above country.

Oh, and fuck Corbyn and his bullshit "jobs first" Brexit. It's fudge shat out by unicorns.



acb: And I'll settle for pints of beer being rounded down to 500ml if we get round-pinned electrical plugs
You'll take my BS 1363s from my cold, dead hands.

Definitely Not Sean Spicer: Spain, starting down the UK, only utters one single sentence, "hablemos de Gibraltar".
Oh look, it's Northern Ireland writ large, with a less co-operative counterpart. When are we planning to get to that fucking shit show?
posted by MattWPBS at 4:28 AM on July 11, 2018 [24 favorites]


And in today's Sunlit Uplands news - stockpiling Pot Noodles.
posted by MattWPBS at 4:29 AM on July 11, 2018 [1 favorite]


You're a savvy Remain politico with the clout to mount a serious opposition to the Brexit drift, you're going to get monstered for "ignoring the will of the people" and your career is over.

Some people need to start putting country (or continent) before career.
posted by Dysk at 4:32 AM on July 11, 2018 [4 favorites]


You'll take my BS 1363s from my cold, dead hands.

You'll take them from the bloody red agonisingly painful soles of my feet after I've come down for a pee in the middle of the night, and I'll say "I love you Schuko! Where have you been all my life?"
posted by ambrosen at 5:25 AM on July 11, 2018 [1 favorite]


Honestly think it needs someone like Ken Clarke to step forward. One of the old Big Beasts, at the end of their career, not bothered about what people think of them, but still able to command respect for their competence.
posted by MattWPBS at 5:30 AM on July 11, 2018 [1 favorite]


Oh, and fuck Corbyn and his bullshit "jobs first" Brexit. It's fudge shat out by unicorns

He’s the other part of the problem: there’s no split between the parties because, god help us, he’s a lexit true believer, and nothing is going to shift him on that. So another election will do nothing.
posted by Artw at 5:36 AM on July 11, 2018 [8 favorites]


On Ken Clarke - this interview makes me so bloody sad about the decline of our political class in any party.
posted by MattWPBS at 5:45 AM on July 11, 2018


Two generations since the politicians who fought in WWII.
posted by Devonian at 7:22 AM on July 11, 2018 [1 favorite]


Croatia just scored and my entire Twitter timeline went "Oh, no". We seem to be using this match to work through something. It would be nice if we won it, but...
posted by Grangousier at 12:27 PM on July 11, 2018


@donnyc1975: "BRITAIN is now officially a banana republic with constant sunshine, a collapsing government, depreciating currency and a good football team."
posted by Wordshore at 12:45 PM on July 11, 2018 [3 favorites]


Well, the football thing seems to be going awry, perhaps we can work on the other things.
posted by Grangousier at 12:48 PM on July 11, 2018


I'm grateful to these young men for their current efforts to bring some normality to England by crashing out in extra time. If they fail in this effort, I fear we may all be doomed.
posted by howfar at 1:27 PM on July 11, 2018 [1 favorite]


Aaaargh.
posted by MattWPBS at 1:30 PM on July 11, 2018




It's the hope that kills you.


(relevant for both politics and football)
posted by MattWPBS at 1:43 PM on July 11, 2018 [3 favorites]


At least May can now pull the English football team out of the World Cup in protest at the Russians killing a British citizen on British soil with their nerve agent.
posted by Definitely Not Sean Spicer at 1:45 PM on July 11, 2018


It's the hope that kills you.

If that's the case I reckon (cranks up Queen) I am immortal at this point. Whether I also have inside me blood of kings is still undergoing debate.
posted by howfar at 2:30 PM on July 11, 2018 [1 favorite]


All together now: "It's staying there, it's staying there, it's staying. It's not coming home..."
posted by Paul Slade at 2:32 PM on July 11, 2018


@theJeremyVine: On the upside, Gareth Southgate is now free to be Prime Minister.
posted by Wordshore at 2:50 PM on July 11, 2018 [1 favorite]


I'm grateful to these young men for their current efforts to bring some normality to England by crashing out in extra time. If they fail in this effort, I fear we may all be doomed.

It would have been more on-brand if they made it up to the final, got into the lead, and in the second half, lost the match with a series of own goals.
posted by acb at 4:24 PM on July 11, 2018 [6 favorites]


UK Polling Report: "Only 13% of people now think the Chequers Brexit deal would be good for Britain... 42% think it would not. 23% think it respects the referendum deal, 39% think it does not."
posted by TheophileEscargot at 12:35 AM on July 12, 2018


Some anti-Trump antics from around the country (all tweets with an image except Dave):

@MoonpigUK: "If we make a 100 of these baby #TrumpUKvisit balloons will you buy them?"

George Smiley - @georgescircus: "Fuck Trump in Russian appears in a crop circle on Bucks farm. He’ll see this on his way to Chequers."

@RhodaMiller: "Dundee cakes!"

@TennantsLager: "Hey @realDonaldTrump There's been a bit of a heatwave in Scotland recently, so if you get thirsty while you're here..."

@mikedavechannel: "Celebrate the #TrumpUKVisit at work by blagging your way through your job, never really knowing what you’re doing and then ruining everything"


Protest pics: @LukeStratford, @maestoallen, CookCookie.

And for balance: The pro-Trump gathering and some people studiously ignoring him.
posted by Buntix at 11:35 AM on July 12, 2018 [1 favorite]


@AlexCanterbury: "Proud to see the wonderful Red Arrows flying over Blenheim Palace this evening to mark the occasion of President Trump’s visit!" (click through for nice picture)
posted by Wordshore at 4:07 PM on July 12, 2018


Jason Hazeley: "While he's wantonly soiling our territory and cluelessly fucking with our politics, here are our 2017Wipe (it was cancelled) notes on you-know-who."

It's one of those annoying text-as-image tweets, but worth it. Probably the most comprehensive list of insults to the twat-in-chief I've seen so far.
posted by Grangousier at 1:59 AM on July 13, 2018 [1 favorite]


"Hitler Simpson".

Heh.
posted by flabdablet at 3:48 AM on July 13, 2018 [1 favorite]




The best single picture fic I have ever hoped for #HindenTrump
posted by Buntix at 1:20 PM on July 13, 2018 [1 favorite]


I've had a couple of beers and I'm a bit over-wrought emotionally at the moment anyway, so this doesn't make much sense, but. I'd like the next election, whenever that is, to be fought on the question "Do you like the country we've become over the last ten years?" And I hope and believe that the answer is no. But if the answer is yes, it would act as a sign that it would be a good time to find a tall building to step off.
posted by Grangousier at 2:01 PM on July 13, 2018 [2 favorites]


That's the trick Nazis play, they make everyone think that their beliefs are ordinary.

We are a social species particularly good at mutual aid and supporting each other. That's why we ain't extinct yet.

Most people are mostly good most of the time. Nazis can unbalance things briefly, but then they get to hang out on the civic lighting features.
posted by Buntix at 2:48 PM on July 13, 2018


Plenty of (my) pics from today's London protest march on Twitter @PlanetSlade.
posted by Paul Slade at 3:09 PM on July 13, 2018 [8 favorites]




Oh so Boaty McBoatface was changed to Sir David Attenborough when you all realised it was a stupid idea... but Brexit has to stay Brexit because it's the people's will! Rather have stupid boat than a stupid country.
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 9:15 AM on July 14, 2018 [7 favorites]


Trump’s visit will help buoy the already boisterous British right.
While May entertained the president at Blenheim Palace, his visit was facilitating the cross-pollination between British conservatism and the Trumpian alt-right.
"It goes further than Twitter gaffes and rogue councillors, and further than Boris Johnson and Donald Trump’s mutual adoration, or Theresa May’s desperate deference to the president".
posted by adamvasco at 10:14 AM on July 14, 2018 [1 favorite]


Yes, if they'd run the lifeboat vote the way they've run Brexit, they'd have forced David Attenborough to change his name to Boaty McBoatface.
posted by Grangousier at 10:28 AM on July 14, 2018 [7 favorites]


He’s the other part of the problem: there’s no split between the parties because, god help us, he’s a lexit true believer, and nothing is going to shift him on that. So another election will do nothing.

maybe Labour HQ will buy more Facebook ads again
posted by Apocryphon at 9:20 PM on July 14, 2018


Labour have gone roaring ahead in the latest opinion polls as Tory voting hard Brexiteers go back to UKIP.
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 11:57 PM on July 14, 2018 [2 favorites]


Theresa May: how much worse can the PM’s summer get? TL:DR... a lot worse, and wait until you get to the Autumn, you ain't seen nothing yet.
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 12:00 AM on July 15, 2018 [1 favorite]


No matter how bad this summer is for her, next summer is going to be infinitely worse for the rest of us.
posted by dng at 4:12 AM on July 15, 2018 [1 favorite]


Labour have gone roaring ahead in the latest opinion polls as Tory voting hard Brexiteers go back to UKIP.

And therein lies the problem. Having the country swing wildly left to stop Brexit is not an option for Tories. They'll destroy the country before having Jezza in Number 10.
posted by Definitely Not Sean Spicer at 7:13 AM on July 15, 2018


That being said, the Tories will really wish they had the ECJ and the rest of the centrist technocrats backstopping them when Jezza, on the back of the biggest recession Britain has ever seen, is swept into power and turns the UK into a worker's paradise.
posted by Definitely Not Sean Spicer at 7:15 AM on July 15, 2018




Looks like the Gov is caving to the Brexiteers to fend off a defeat on customs tonight, which will do nothing except prolong the agony...
posted by Devonian at 5:19 AM on July 16, 2018




The Guardian's liveblog has No. 10 stating "no second referendum under any circumstances".
posted by entity447b at 6:14 AM on July 16, 2018


If last year's anything to go by, that means Theresa May will announce a new referendum in the next couple of weeks.
posted by dng at 6:19 AM on July 16, 2018 [7 favorites]


A second referendum would be profoundly undemocratic, apparently, and nobody ever does it.

(For a chap who likes logic and history, these are hard times.)
posted by Devonian at 6:39 AM on July 16, 2018 [2 favorites]


But that's the whole thing right. Nobody likes the situation, but nobody wants to be PM knowing their political career in dead in a year's time, and nobody will take down the government because it means Jezza in No. 10. Meanwhile they're bleeding support back to UKIP because the government is merely cutting off both the country's arms instead of decapitating it out of spite towards the Poles and Bulgarians.

It'd be almost fucking hilarious if the future of Britain and its people weren't at stake.

The worst thing is that a general election wouldn't even be a proxy referendum because Jezza is going full steam ahead with the people's choice. He's not even offering the alternative of calling this whole omnishambles off.
posted by Definitely Not Sean Spicer at 6:46 AM on July 16, 2018


A second referendum would be profoundly undemocratic, apparently

"One referendum good, two referendums bad."
posted by dng at 7:33 AM on July 16, 2018 [5 favorites]


And it's all going Pete Tong. Per Faisal Islam - phoned up by middle ground Tory MP:
“This is a s**tshow” - reports prominent PPS still in Government ringing around as alternative whip for ERG amendments... says Remainer MPs will now (today or tomorrow) push for full customs union to remind ERG of “mutually assured destruction”


He goes on to say there's a suspicious spike in some Tory party constituency membership applications, which some interpret as preparation for a speedy leadership challenge. I don't doubt it - the ERG amendments make nonsense of the White Paper, leaving May just sitting in that canoe as the currents of Shit Creek carry her paddles away.
posted by Devonian at 7:59 AM on July 16, 2018




Hey, let's toss our negotiating position to stop the Brexiteers from open revolt!

Christ, May. At some point you do actually have to lead.
posted by Definitely Not Sean Spicer at 8:28 AM on July 16, 2018 [3 favorites]


Running away from the problem is kind of leading, right ?
posted by Pendragon at 11:43 AM on July 16, 2018


Ran across someone in a Twitter thread complaining that May has to respect the outcome of the referendum, not push forward some awful half-in-half-out solution. Sadly, I didn't have the nerve to point out that half-in-half-out is actually a pretty good description of the outcome of the referendum...
posted by ManyLeggedCreature at 12:30 PM on July 16, 2018 [1 favorite]




Christ. The vote passed with a majority of three, and four Labour MPs sided with the ERG.

If I typed what I feel, I'd be looking at five to ten in the Scrubs.
posted by Devonian at 3:17 PM on July 16, 2018 [2 favorites]


Yes, I very nearly wished something more intemperate than immediate promotion to Crown Steward and Bailiff of the three Chiltern Hundreds of Stoke, Desborough and Burnham for Kate Hoey, but I restrained myself.
posted by ambrosen at 4:18 PM on July 16, 2018 [1 favorite]


May is planning an early recess/holiday to save her skin... not that the government has anything urgent to attend to or anything.
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 11:10 PM on July 16, 2018


One of those Labour votes was from bloody Frank Field, who happens to be our MP. He will be hearing from us. I find him baffling. He's a genuinely good constituency MP, and he can be so great when it comes to stuff like fighting Universal Credit -- and given the number of his constituents who are being hosed by UC, he damn well should be -- but he has this bizarre authoritarian/moralist streak and an unswerving devotion to Brexit.
posted by skybluepink at 11:39 PM on July 16, 2018


A second referendum would be profoundly undemocratic, apparently

Luckily the first one was profoundly undemocratic too.
posted by dng at 2:53 AM on July 17, 2018 [2 favorites]


Anna Soubry telling it how it is in the HoC
I'm in a strange mood today, so that's part of it, but I cried when I saw that.
posted by mumimor at 3:30 AM on July 17, 2018


I'm pretty incensed that both Tim Farron and Vince Cable apparently missed several votes last night. Incredible.

It should be possible to vote remotely, of course, but an amazing dereliction of duty and appalling that they could have got it so wrong.
posted by Quagkapi at 4:44 AM on July 17, 2018 [1 favorite]


Farron had more important matters to attend to. Like how people were being "illiberal" about his Christianity when in actual fact they were holding him to account for not being willing or able to say that gay sex wasn't a sin. But you know, playing persecuted martyr is obviously more important than the whole Brexit thing, of course, especially for a party that is currently selling itself entirely on its apparently unique opposition to Brexit.
posted by Dysk at 4:53 AM on July 17, 2018 [4 favorites]


It's all the bloody Lib Dems are good for anymore, and they can't even show up to vote? "We thought Labour was going to abstain," isn't good enough. This is their signature issue. They need to show up and vote even when they know they're going to lose.
posted by skybluepink at 4:53 AM on July 17, 2018 [2 favorites]


I checked in with the twitter #FBPE group on that.
Turns out it was Jeremy Corbyn's fault that Tim Farron missed the Brexit vote to talk about gays in a church.
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 4:55 AM on July 17, 2018 [3 favorites]


Can we use the Trump Screaming Thread, or should we have one of our own?
posted by Devonian at 5:45 AM on July 17, 2018


Farron on missing the vote: I was authorised to be absent from the vote last night for a pre-arranged engagement. Nobody expected the vote to be as close as it was. We clearly called it wrong, as did Labour, and I take full responsibility for my part – the Tories don’t deserve any luck. Chief Whip's statement here.

Kier Starmer on the Vote Leave fine and reporting to the police: Very serious findings. Completely unacceptable for VoteLeave not to co-operate with inquiry. Police investigation should go wherever the evidence leads.

Although still refusing to consider that both the official campaign and Leave.EU overspending by ~10% this may have any implications for the legitimacy of a 52/48 result. Fun fact pop pickers, there's fewer safeguards over the Brexit referendum than a local council one. We're now in a situation where this would almost certainly be annulled if it was about a local planning decision.

The Office of Budget Responsibility has said that the NHS funding cannot be met by the Brexit Dividend, because there isn't one, but the government disputes this because "We have said very clearly that there is".

The government has moved to bring forward the Parliamentary recess by five days, but now looks to be opposed by Labour and some Conservative MPs, so it's changing its mind.

Today has the customs bill, and possibility of defeat on rebel Tory amendments on that given that Labour is now opposing government policy. This is the one with the customs union backstop to Chequers, which "unacceptably ties the government's hands", as opposed to the one making in unlawful for HMRC to carry out Chequers, which apparently didn't.

Nice colour quotes for the state of the nation. Simon Clarke (Conservative MP): "It is dead and we are tearing ourselves apart over something that is dead. We are negotiating with the EU over something that is dead, we are trying to sell to the public something that is dead. It is stupid it is palpably absurd."

Oh, and the EU has just signed the largest bilateral trade deal with Japan.

Here is your soundtrack for the day.
posted by MattWPBS at 5:54 AM on July 17, 2018 [4 favorites]


Postscript:

Robert Hutton: Really weird moment on the World At One where presenter asks "if these allegations are true" and interviewee has to explain that this is no longer at issue.

You can hear it here from about 11:20. Kate Hoey being interviewed about a report which she openly says she hasn't read, and then Shahmir Sanni literally having to point out they've been proven at 15:30. It's nuts.
posted by MattWPBS at 6:28 AM on July 17, 2018 [2 favorites]


David Cameron: Getting fellatio from a dead pig was only the second most regrettable thing I did in my life.
posted by Definitely Not Sean Spicer at 8:37 AM on July 17, 2018


Maybe some of the Brexiteers are shorting the market but given what’s been said it’s good old fashioned selfishness and racism. They don’t want French and German technocrats telling them how straight their bananas have to be or that Poles and Bulgarians are people that are equally worthy of dignity and respect as other Europeans.
posted by Definitely Not Sean Spicer at 9:46 AM on July 17, 2018 [2 favorites]


It's frustrating because ironically a binding referendum would have been weaker than an advisory referendum.

Because the referendum was merely advisory there is no legal basis upon which to undo it. It can't be voided, because there is nothing to void.
posted by Just this guy, y'know at 9:46 AM on July 17, 2018


I thought there couldn't be a binding referendum because Parliament can't be bound?
posted by Chrysostom at 12:07 PM on July 17, 2018 [1 favorite]


The voting reform referendum was a binding referendum.

From Wikipedia: "This was only the second UK-wide referendum to be held [...] and was also the first UK-wide referendum to be overseen by the Electoral Commission. It was also the first that was not merely consultative: it committed the government to give effect to its decision."
posted by dng at 12:49 PM on July 17, 2018


I thought there couldn't be a binding referendum because Parliament can't be bound?

Constitutionally, that is the case. If Parliament had declined to enact a positive AV referendum vote, the most direct corrective action would be the forced dissolution of Parliament by the monarch, although there is some debate about whether that's constitutionally possible. The monarch would have some other options too, such as dismissing the prime minister and/or cabinet (which might well be sufficient in some circumstances), or withholding royal assent to all legislation to try to force the government to fall. But yeah, sadly, our ultimate constitutional safeguard against tyranny is an old lady in a very expensive stolen hat.
posted by howfar at 1:16 PM on July 17, 2018 [1 favorite]


Jo Swinson on Twitter saying Conservative whips are not respecting pairing. She was paired with Brandon Lewis for tonight’s vote but Brandon Lewis appears to have voted.

(For non-UK Parliament followers: pairing is an arrangement between party whips, where an MP who can’t be there to vote for whatever reason is paired with someone on the other side who sits the vote out. Nice FT article on the custom, including an overview of what happened the last time a government allegedly broke pairing.)
posted by Catseye at 1:20 PM on July 17, 2018 [5 favorites]


(and apologies if that FT link is subscribers-only now - I can read it fine, but just sent the link to someone else who couldn’t)
posted by Catseye at 1:22 PM on July 17, 2018


people in whose interest it is to make average British people poorer?

I don’t think that the main Brexiteers (Farage, Gove, Banks etc) ever think about average British people. Their only reason for pushing this shitshow is to make themselves richer and they are using the straight banana stories to rile up Middle England sufficiently to provide cover for their heist.
posted by jontyjago at 3:17 AM on July 18, 2018


winterhill: So, to what extent do we think the current situation was pre-planned by the kind of people in whose interest it is to make average British people poorer?

It's been pointed out to me by a few people that when other countries do referendums, there tends to need to be a quorum of some kind. Either it's a 66% or even 75% vote required to make a major change to the law or constitution, or >50% of the electorate, rather than just 50%+1 of the people who happened to turn up to vote on a given day. Either the organisers of the referendum were massively incompetent and didn't do basic research on how these things are done overseas, or they made deliberate decisions to make a Leave vote more likely.


Honestly, I'm a big believer in Hanlon's Razor, especially with the British political adaptation to cock up or conspiracy.

I think it's really much more likely that Cameron and co were over-confident, rather than a deliberate attempt to undermine the interests of themselves, the Tories traditional business backers, and the vast majority of the country.

You've now got a government that's trying to preserve itself, and is terrified of losing political clout. View it through that lens rather than common sense, economics or whatever, and it all makes sense. Prioritise keeping the party in power over what's right. Or for a longer version, with more swearing, my comment here.
posted by MattWPBS at 3:28 AM on July 18, 2018 [2 favorites]


The problem with Hanlon's Razor in the current climate is that so many of the main actors are maliciously stupid - it's both evil and stupidity at the same time. The problem is that they don't cancel each other out, but they amplify each other in unpredictable ways.
posted by Grangousier at 4:12 AM on July 18, 2018 [5 favorites]


I don’t think that the main Brexiteers (Farage, Gove, Banks etc) ever think about average British people. Their only reason for pushing this shitshow is to make themselves richer

I think you're reducing these people to too two-dimensional a caricature. The reality is a little more complex: it's also about sticking it to Johnny Foreigner.
posted by Dysk at 4:43 AM on July 18, 2018 [1 favorite]


I think it's really much more likely that Cameron and co were over-confident, rather than a deliberate attempt to undermine the interests of themselves, the Tories traditional business backers, and the vast majority of the country.

Agreed. Especially since it was a winning strategy for Cameron at that point. He'd successfully bought the LibDems off with a referendum, that had all gone swimmingly, let's just try the same trick with our own annoying backbenchers. Worked a charm last time!


Surely - surely - no one is that short-sighted.

How long are you anticipating May sticking around? She's over 60. By the time this whole mess kills the Tories (and hey, it might yet not!) she'll be ready to retire if she hasn't already.
posted by Dysk at 4:47 AM on July 18, 2018


Ian Paisley Jr from the DUP has been suspended for 30 days due to undeclared interests around Sri Lanka.

The Customs Bill is not a money bill, but a supply bill. So this means they can reject, but not amend.

The white paper's translation to other languages seems to be Google Translate level.

Boris might not get to give his big resignation statement for a while.

Turns out David Davis's fallback for Brexit was literally cherry picking the best bits from other EU FTAs.



Surely - surely - no one is that short-sighted.

This is the group of people who called a General Election after triggering A50.
posted by MattWPBS at 5:00 AM on July 18, 2018 [4 favorites]


And the people that triggered Article 50 before they had made any preparations at all for the negotiations, not just with the EU, but with themselves.
posted by dng at 5:46 AM on July 18, 2018 [2 favorites]


And the people that triggered Article 50 before they had made any preparations at all for the negotiations, not just with the EU, but with themselves.

Well it's not like she didn't have a strategy. Before the general election May had an ungodly approval rating of +21. She though she could declare a snap election, come out with an increased majority, kick the hard Brexiteers to the kerb and gently ease Britain out of the EU. Best-laid plans of mice and men and all that.
posted by Definitely Not Sean Spicer at 6:24 AM on July 18, 2018


Before the referendum I generally approved of staying in the EU because it seemed like the best course of action (although I hadn't given it much thought and had misgivings about the institution itself, which seemed, and seems, very much in need of reform). However, now that it's not only obvious that it is the most practical course of action but would also humiliate Johnson, Farage and the others, infuriate the Mail- and Telegraph-reading class and in addition lose the Rees-Mogg types enormous amounts of hedge fund money, I'm almost fanatically in favour.
posted by Grangousier at 6:33 AM on July 18, 2018 [2 favorites]


Well it's not like she didn't have a strategy. Before the general election May had an ungodly approval rating of +21. She though she could declare a snap election, come out with an increased majority, kick the hard Brexiteers to the kerb and gently ease Britain out of the EU. Best-laid plans of mice and men and all that.

I think the Ancient Greeks had a word for this.
posted by dng at 6:40 AM on July 18, 2018


Βλακεία?
posted by Grangousier at 6:46 AM on July 18, 2018 [3 favorites]


Before the general election May had an ungodly approval rating of +21.

Well, she had polls that gave her that. As it turns out, she probably didn't have that kind of approval at all. Given everything that had happened leading up to the snap election, it was possibly not the best time to bet so heavily on counter-intuitive polling results...
posted by Dysk at 7:03 AM on July 18, 2018 [1 favorite]


I think it's really much more likely that Cameron and co were over-confident

I think so, especially in the wake of the Scottish independence referendum in 2014. Cameron & co went into that overconfident because Yes was polling really low, failed to put together a coherent and compelling narrative for people to vote No, started to panic late on when Yes kept polling higher and higher. Then they won, just about, but instead of thinking “oh shit that was a narrow escape, let’s take a long hard look at what we did wrong there”, they just bounced happily on like nothing ever happened.

In a saner political climate I’d think that Brexit consequences (assuming they’re anything less than sunlit uplands and world begging for trade deals at our feet, etc etc) will boot the Conservatives into the wilderness for a generation. Labour are still widely perceived as financially reckless for not sufficiently heading off the global financial crisis before it happened; how bad’s it going to be for the party that did see an economic crisis coming and marched obliviously towards it anyway? But this is no longer a sane political climate and it’s not like Labour can tell a very convincing narrative about their own part at the moment, so who knows.
posted by Catseye at 9:13 AM on July 18, 2018 [2 favorites]


It's important to recognise that the media and political narrative about economic policy has been so entirely captured by business interests rather than economists that any party which favours sane and sustainable spending and regulation will be portrayed as loony lefties out to crash the economy. The narrative of austerity is so pervasive that what is actually best for economies has been lost among a totemistic celebration of slash and burn. The suffering of the poor is seen as a sacrifice to propitiate some mysterious market god, rather than an avoidable and wasteful inefficiency. I think a few right wing politicians actually believe this bullshit, but most of them are just out to line their pockets.
posted by howfar at 10:08 AM on July 18, 2018 [5 favorites]


Brandon Lewis breaking pairing with Jo Swinson is now being reported to be deliberate.
posted by MattWPBS at 3:07 AM on July 19, 2018 [4 favorites]


More pressure now coming on Julian Smith (Tory Chief Whip), as Tory MPs are briefing heavily against him.
posted by MattWPBS at 5:36 AM on July 19, 2018 [1 favorite]


Per Laura Kuenssberg in Twitter, the current Conservative line on the pairing thing was 2 hours ago that the chief whip considered asking MPs to break pairs but didn’t actually do it. But as a result of this Brandon Lewis accidentally got told to break his pair.

Line has since changed to: okay maybe several MPs got told to break their pair, but they didn’t do it so it doesn’t matter. And anyway it was only short-term pairs the Conservatives considered not honouring, not long-term arrangements for maternity like Jo Swinson’s. Who is of course the only one whose pair appears to have been broken.

Increasingly convinced they don’t actually have a whip’s office and Gavin Williamson left that tarantula in charge when he moved on.
posted by Catseye at 7:51 AM on July 19, 2018


The Independent Commission on Referendums has now reported, here's their outline:
...the Commission urges politicians, political parties, and campaigners to think carefully before committing to hold a referendum. Above all, that means ensuring that any proposal for change is prepared and scrutinised in detail. Referendums work best when they come at the end of a thorough policy development process, as occurred before the 1997 Scottish devolution referendum and the 1998 Good Friday Agreement referendum. The recent Irish Citizens’ Assembly, which paved the way for that country’s referendum on abortion, offers a promising model for the future...

The proposals put to a referendum should, so far as possible, be clear and immediately actionable. If they are not, voters may be unable to make an informed choice and tensions between popular and parliamentary sovereignty may arise – as they did during the Article 50 notification debates in parliament. The best way to ensure clarity is to hold referendums after the legislation to implement the change has been passed by the relevant parliament or assembly: the Commission recommends this wherever possible...

...[in] circumstances where this is not possible... the government calling the referendum should provide as much clarity as possible for voters, producing a detailed White Paper on what it intends to happen in the event of a vote for change.
posted by TheophileEscargot at 8:02 AM on July 19, 2018 [6 favorites]


Independent Commission on Referendums - established in 2017.

Well there's your fucking problem right there.
posted by jontyjago at 8:09 AM on July 19, 2018 [3 favorites]


Okay, now Tory MPs are pretty much calling for the Chief Whip's head. It was deliberate.
posted by MattWPBS at 10:56 AM on July 19, 2018 [1 favorite]


Apparently, May's going to denounce the NI backstop tomorrow.

That'll be game over.
posted by Devonian at 3:29 PM on July 19, 2018 [1 favorite]


How many double crosses per minute are we at now?
posted by dng at 5:09 PM on July 19, 2018


I'm a bit lost- what's the significance of May rejecting a national border with Ireland? What is that game over for?
posted by Pope Guilty at 5:30 PM on July 19, 2018


But what happens after game over, Devonian?

It really is unbelievable that the UK government can be so incompetent.
posted by ambrosen at 5:30 PM on July 19, 2018


I'm a bit lost- what's the significance of May rejecting a national border with Ireland? What is that game over for?

Because she's throwing her turd bowl of party squabble issues over the fence into the EU's backyard and telling them they have to produce a unicorn or they'll shoot the UK economy and Northern Ireland in the head.
posted by Definitely Not Sean Spicer at 7:58 PM on July 19, 2018 [2 favorites]


'[May] is expected to say the EU needs to "evolve its position in kind,"'

'We've gotten less reasonable and accommodating, so we expect you to be more so.'
posted by Dysk at 1:23 AM on July 20, 2018 [2 favorites]


It really is unbelievable that the UK government can be so incompetent.


Oh, I find it entirely believable
posted by EndsOfInvention at 1:47 AM on July 20, 2018 [3 favorites]


I'm so conflicted.

As someone living in the UK, I'm all apprehensive and anxious at how uncertain this godawful clearly-unplanned amorphous Brexit mess is making everything.

On the other hand, as a horrible filthy immigrant who came over shortly before the whole "hostile environment" thing, I am positively beside myself with glee to see terrible things happening to Theresa May and her career.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 2:52 AM on July 20, 2018 [7 favorites]


It's never their fault: And so rather than take responsibility for the fact that the agenda they have embraced was opportunistic, flawed and destined for failure, the right’s most vocal practitioners absent themselves of all responsibility and instead cry “betrayal”.
posted by dng at 2:56 AM on July 20, 2018


Today's brief roundup:



We're all fucked.

posted by MattWPBS at 3:08 AM on July 20, 2018 [5 favorites]




*May sees cat is dead and throws it over the fence for EU to deal with*
Open Europe @OpenEurope
.@MichelBarnier: "The UK white paper is the result of a very intense internal debate in the UK - a debate that was necessary. And we all see that this debate is not over yet."

5:52 AM - 20 Jul 2018
EU to May: "Why the fuck did you throw this dead cat over the fence?" *throws the dead cat back over the fence*
posted by Definitely Not Sean Spicer at 6:17 AM on July 20, 2018 [3 favorites]


Afternoon brief roundup:



Fuckedness level increase to 11.




NB: the expectation was that he'd go a bit easier on May today, so as to give her some wiggle room.
posted by MattWPBS at 6:23 AM on July 20, 2018 [2 favorites]


Deutsche Welle: British government mocked for poor Brexit paper translations.

Yeah I wonder why there's no expert German translators around, it's a mystery, where could they have gone
posted by EndsOfInvention at 8:34 AM on July 20, 2018 [2 favorites]


Yeah I wonder why there's no expert German translators around, it's a mystery, where could they have gone

We're still in the EU, there are absolutely no barriers to contracting the work to somebody in say, Germany.
posted by Dysk at 8:36 AM on July 20, 2018


We're still in the EU, there are absolutely no barriers to contracting the work to somebody in say, Germany.

Yes but it wouldn’t have that air of contempt that Google Translate provides.
posted by Definitely Not Sean Spicer at 8:42 AM on July 20, 2018 [2 favorites]


The Government are sourcing imagery from Scarfolk Council now.

Sadly, the PDF has now been edited to remove the poster that encourages killing children...
posted by Helga-woo at 9:22 AM on July 20, 2018 [4 favorites]


A clip from a Krishnan Guru-Murthy interview with Jacob Rees-Mogg, on whether JRM will be proved right or wrong about the economic consequences of Brexit:
JRM: We will know at some point, yes of course we will, but it's a question of timescale.
KGM: So how long have you got?
JRM: We won't know the full economic consequences for a very long time.
KGM: Come on.
JRM: We really won't.
KGM: Of course not, but I mean we'll have an indication, we'll know whether there's been chaos, we'll know whether there have been job losses.
JRM: The overwhelming opportunity for Brexit is over the next 50 years.
As someone mentions in the replies, that's about the same timescale suggested by Andrew "Your next 10 years are irrelevant" Lilico, the only economist anyone could find who was prepared to be remotely positive about Brexit, who suggested 45 years, and only half that of Digby Jones, who suggested 100 years.

Finally, the Brexiteers agree on something: we won't be able to objectively judge their scheme until they're all dead.
posted by Quagkapi at 11:14 AM on July 21, 2018


Well by that measure, I'm feeling pretty happy to objectively judge their scheme within the next few weeks. Let's hope they all catch some horrible pox through the ERG WhatsApp group.
posted by ambrosen at 2:03 PM on July 21, 2018


I miss the old days when conservatives were Europhiles because they knew if they were inside the EU they could make a right pig’s breakfast of the whole thing. Which they successfully did might I add.
posted by Definitely Not Sean Spicer at 4:23 PM on July 21, 2018


I think it's generally agreed that however awful Thatcher's government was, it did also drive the creation of the single market, so saying the Tories have always made a pig's breakfast of the EU is pretty much flat out wrong.
posted by ambrosen at 5:40 PM on July 21, 2018


Rees-Mogg is basically sitting in the passenger seat, yanking the driver's arm so they crash the car and he can, somehow, claim a lot of money on the insurance, at which point he'll say "Don't blame me, I wasn't driving".
posted by Grangousier at 6:11 PM on July 21, 2018 [2 favorites]


JRM: The overwhelming opportunity for Brexit is over the next 50 years.

Wow! I'm sure this might have had a teeny tiny bit of an influence on the referendum if Brexiteers had said: "Yeah, about those economic consequences, actually you'll be worse off. And so will your children. But your grandchildren will thrive, if everything goes well!"
posted by sour cream at 2:21 PM on July 22, 2018 [1 favorite]


I'm pretty sure this is the future Jacob Rees-Mogg envisions. Look at all that opportunity for those children!
posted by Definitely Not Sean Spicer at 4:31 PM on July 22, 2018 [1 favorite]


I'm sure it's symptomatic of something that you've linked to a video that's not available in the UK.
posted by Grangousier at 12:42 AM on July 23, 2018


This was a diverting start to the day. I'm sure all you chaps are all over the book already, and found myriad ways to dismiss it, but this review was my first encounter with it - :

What if everything you think you know about Britain’s 20th century is wrong? That is the startling and surprisingly successful premise of David Edgerton’s book The Rise and Fall of the British Nation: A Twentieth-Century History.

posted by Grangousier at 1:45 AM on July 23, 2018 [2 favorites]






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