Have we reached Peak MoviePass?
July 15, 2018 12:25 PM   Subscribe

MoviePass, the $9.95/month movie-a-day movie theater subscription service that has changed the moviegoing experience and has nudged the largest movie theater chain in the US to introduce it's own rival service, has reached three millions subscribers. However, because of it's shaky economics the company is not exactly celebrating this milestone. (Previously)

MoviePass recently introduced peak pricing, where users pay a fee ($2.29 to $4.50 according to the MP subreddit) to be able to go to showtimes that are at higher demand. Before this, the service attempted to reduce losses by prohibiting people from seeing the same movie more than once, ticket verification, alternate subscription plans, and even directly investing in two films, Americans Animals and Gotti.
posted by FJT (66 comments total) 13 users marked this as a favorite
 
At the very least, it appears not to be a loss leader; AMC has told analysts that it expects the subscription plan to add incremental benefit to its bottom line.

I'm only vaguely aware of MoviePass, but the advantage for theatre chains seems obvious to me from hearing my MoviePass-having colleagues talk about it--because the break-even on MoviePass is one film a month*, they signed up figuring they'd more or less break even and find themselves going much more frequently, meaning their partners and friends are probably going to the movies more as well, and some of those people are paying full price. The number of people who will say "what the heck" and register when the break-even is two films a month is smaller, but surely enough for AMC to give it a shot (especially since it is apparently profitable elsewhere). What I don't get is how MoviePass proposed to make money in the first place.

*My movie-going since I moved to NYC had all been first show of the day matinees for $7.25. I was shocked to discover the going rate in Manhattan is $16+.
posted by hoyland at 12:40 PM on July 15, 2018 [1 favorite]


Why did anyone think a service that is structured as a loss leader except there is nothing to make up the loss was a good business idea. I thought the idea of business was to sell things for more than they cost to produce
posted by dis_integration at 12:42 PM on July 15, 2018 [4 favorites]


In the UK the main cinema chains have unlimited-movie-passes - this makes sense as they have some restrictions so I'm sure most of the time they're just using up spare seats at the screens. Plus then getting people to buy pure profit popcorn.
But MoviePass are currently just paying full retail and not getting concession revenue - apparently they're now trying to bully the chains into giving them a cut and if they get enough subscribers then they may be able to. Depends who blinks first - MoviePass investors or the cinemas!

I wonder if there's a name for this type of business - appear to offer a great deal but actually the model relies on people not using it as much they think, like gyms too.
posted by JonB at 12:45 PM on July 15, 2018 [4 favorites]


My favorite thing about MoviePass is how it shows how uptight big brands have gotten. A company comes along and basically says "we're going to buy people your product" and the movie theater chains try to stop them. It's like if you walked into a bar and said "I'd like to buy everyone's next round" and the bartender kicked you out, saying if they let you, nobody would ever buy themselves a drink again.
posted by smelendez at 12:48 PM on July 15, 2018 [28 favorites]


I thought the idea of business was to sell things for more than they cost to produce

Movies (and stage productions) are an interesting kind of business because there is no way to produce the thing for a cost and then know how to price the thing for the buying public in a way in which you know you will recoup costs.

Movies have a pretty standard admission price (which varies widely by region) and so whoever shows up to see whatever pays the same price as the next schmo who sees a different whatever. You can't charge one guy $55 for a movie ticket and the next guy $10 to a different movie because you know one is going to sell more tickets than the other and thus costs will vary.
posted by hippybear at 12:50 PM on July 15, 2018 [1 favorite]


I'm movie passes worst nightmare. I work odd hours so I have time to kill with nobody to keep me company so o go to movies like 4 times a month. I assume it takes probably 10 or more subscribers not using their pass to make up for me. My favorite part is I love spending VC money. I feel like I'm getting a tiny revenge against really stupid billionaires. I'm going to ride this train till it stops making sense.
posted by Uncle at 1:00 PM on July 15, 2018 [70 favorites]


You can't charge one guy $55 for a movie ticket and the next guy $10 to a different movie because you know one is going to sell more tickets than the other and thus costs will vary

Yeah. But I don't mean the movie business, I mean the MoviePass business. My dad is in a weird semi-retirement where he travels around the country in an RV with his partner and they have moviepass. They use it as a cheap way to get out of the RV wherever they're staying and go do something. They see just about every first run movie. They don't care about reviews, just whether they've seen it already. So in any given month they basically cause at least a $100 loss for moviepass. How many other people do this? It surely out numbers the people who sign up and only see a movie every other month.

The business model makes no sense. Obviously the deal-seekers and points-players of the world were going to immediately seize upon moviepass, chat about it on their billboards, and figure out what a good deal it is. I think my dad likes it just because he gets to see a bunch of movies for free. He doesn't care that the movies are often terrible. He's beating the system. And MoviePass is doing it to themslves.
posted by dis_integration at 1:01 PM on July 15, 2018 [2 favorites]


If only Netflix could get into the movie theater business where, for an additional fee, you can watch new releases in theaters. Just streamline and automate the whole experience so it makes financially sense.
posted by Foci for Analysis at 1:27 PM on July 15, 2018 [2 favorites]


This is Underpant Gnomes territory:
1. Collect subscribers
2. ??????
3. Profit!

Basically, they don't know what they will do to make a profit. Sure, maybe the chains will give them a cut if they get big enough. Maybe they'll gather enough data on their subscribers that they can still information to advertisers. Maybe it will turn out to be a gym-style business and the occasional viewers will subside the rest. Maybe they will exit through an acquisition and Netflix will buy them, or Facebook, or Disney in some kind of own-the-vertical idea. Really, they have no idea but have enough money to throw at it for a while that yay, cheap movies (at least for a while)!
posted by humuhumu at 1:32 PM on July 15, 2018 [4 favorites]


What I don't get is how MoviePass proposed to make money in the first place.

They were going to monetize all that data they collected on their users.

I'm not kidding. That was the business plan.
posted by COD at 1:40 PM on July 15, 2018 [19 favorites]


It was a stupid plan, but I bought a year pass and I'm enjoying the hell out of disrupting the movie theater business.

Now if only something would disrupt the movie snack business in a similar fashion I'd be set.
posted by graventy at 2:01 PM on July 15, 2018 [2 favorites]


I was amazed to find out that Moviepass pays the theatre the full price of the ticket. I had assumed that they had some kind of arrangement with the the theatres to pay them a percentage of the ticket under the assumption that those seats would stay empty otherwise (or something like that).
posted by jonathanhughes at 2:05 PM on July 15, 2018 [2 favorites]




Now if only something would disrupt the movie snack business in a similar fashion I'd be set.

Let me send you a prospectus and business plan for my latest venture, My Wife’s Oversized Bag, Cooking Beforehand At Home, and Aluminum Foil Wraps LLC. We’ve got some great proven talent already on board.
posted by infinitewindow at 2:17 PM on July 15, 2018 [35 favorites]


At my theater (a small town art-house) we accept MoviePass but dang are they sketchy.

They refuse to send you (the theater owner/managment) anything in writing about their service or how they plan to work with you, and they don't allow us to correct erroneous information they display about our theater or showtimes. And yeah, they've come at us with a "how about a cut of your sales?" plea but we definitely ain't trying to hear that. We didn't ask for your service or your help and we don't need it, so fuck off.

I keep telling customers who use them to enjoy it while it lasts because I don't think they'll last the summer.
posted by Hey Dean Yeager! at 2:18 PM on July 15, 2018 [16 favorites]


my moviepass experience has been nothing but hassles. oh, i've seen movies. but i haven't really saved any money, and every single month there is some new problem or restriction with using the app. i am canceling after this month. i think a subscription service is a great idea to get people into theaters. most make their money off of concessions, not box office, anyway. though it isn't working the way it could, a subscription service could be a win-win-win - for the theaters, for the company, and for the attendee. movie theaters have been struggling for decades to get seats filled. so, i may try Sinemia. or i may just go back to my usual mode, of seeing one movie a month, without the added hassles.
posted by lapolla at 2:20 PM on July 15, 2018


Now if only something would disrupt the movie snack business in a similar fashion I'd be set.

Keep in mind that the reason concessions prices are so outrageous is because theaters make basically no money on ticket sales - all that revenue goes directly to the studios and distributors.

If you're seeing a movie at an AMC or a Landmark or a similar multi-national behemoth, sneak in all the food you can, I say. But if you're going to a small, independent theater, consider buying your snacks there. They'll be more expensive than the corner store but it really does help support the theater.
posted by Hey Dean Yeager! at 2:28 PM on July 15, 2018 [21 favorites]


My assumption was that Movie Pass existed solely to be bought by a theater chain, guaranteeing a massive built-in userbase. But it looks like theater chains are scooping them on the model, so now... ???
posted by codacorolla at 2:30 PM on July 15, 2018 [3 favorites]


I also don't understand the business tactic around this scheme. In here, I could get a second ticket free (or a small drink+popcorn) with the cable costumer card on their theatres. Other chains have a loyalty card that gives points on each purchase that can be traded by popcorn/drinks or free tickets. The indies downtown have a €10/year 25% off card on three different theatres. Some retailer loyalty cards or debit cards allow Monday prices all week long.
All this makes sense. In all cases the costumer is still paying for the ticket (or has paid a lot of them), only at a small discount or maybe offering snacks that have an absurd profit margin and can offer like twenty with the margin of one sale. MoviePass looks like some idea some techbro cooked up to "disrupt the movie industry" by losing money but killing the competition off.
posted by lmfsilva at 2:38 PM on July 15, 2018


But when the competition are the ones actually running the business you are selling, how does that work?
posted by Windopaene at 2:41 PM on July 15, 2018 [2 favorites]


I got the year subscription for $90 via Costco as a Christmas present. Now, I work from home two days a week, and my job is very fits-and-starts, so I have taken 33 movies of money out of MoviePass's investors' pockets in 2018 (and my spouse took another 2 movies out before they stopped letting you see the same movie twice). Even at the lowest weekday-morning matinee price, they're losing their ass on me.

In 2017, I don't think I saw any movies in the theater; if I did, I was taking the kids.

When MoviePass dies, I might go over to Sinemia. I probably won't use the AMC one -- it's the second-closest theater to me, but frankly, their dickishness over MoviePass has soured me on the whole chain. Most likely, I'll just look back fondly on 2018, when I got to see Lady Bird and The Death of Stalin on some VC's dime.
posted by Etrigan at 2:42 PM on July 15, 2018 [7 favorites]


I was completely happy with the MP service when I had it. I only cancelled because my schedule changed. I think it’s great that they’ve gotten so many people watching movies without wringing their hands over the trailers and the RT score. If they survive, I hope they can figure out how to have a more peaceful relationship with theaters.
posted by michaelh at 2:58 PM on July 15, 2018


Now if only something would disrupt the movie snack business in a similar fashion I'd be set.

See, the way the economics work, I'm surprised cinemas don't just let people in for free because they'll make mint on the concessions anyway. Just return to strict bag checks for snack smugglers.

(I mean, banning outside snacks is petty, yes, but I'd really rather they checked bags anyway for much scarier possibilities, and so if it takes their own greed to make them do so, fine.)
posted by rokusan at 4:12 PM on July 15, 2018 [1 favorite]


I wonder if there's a name for this type of business - appear to offer a great deal but actually the model relies on people not using it

You mean the insurance model?
posted by rokusan at 4:12 PM on July 15, 2018 [13 favorites]


The closest *three* cinemas to me all all AMC, so if MoviePass passes, I guess they got me, even though they're jerks.

I do support the independents as much as I can (Film Forum, Angelika and the Quad all get my business as much as possible), and they're definitely the right places to find foreign and art films, but they don't get all the big releases. That's what MoviePass is for.
posted by rokusan at 4:13 PM on July 15, 2018


Can anyone tell me if there's anything like this in Canada yet, besides Sinemia? Sinemia sounds like an interesting proposition but since it doesn't involve a physical debit/credit card, you have to pay a convenience fee for every "free" ticket.
posted by trackofalljades at 4:27 PM on July 15, 2018 [1 favorite]


After much pondering and debate among my movie friends, there's 3 ways MP could eventually be good for everyone.

1) They might eventually boost (though debatably artificial) sales so much that distributors will bail them out. Alternatively, it could force the market to slow ticket price inflation overall much in the way that streaming services have kept a lid on music prices.

2) Their restrictions might actually catch on market-wide, encouraging discounts for anything from off-times to 2nd-*nth week to even for "smaller" movies.

3) The data might actually be more useful that people think, since it's the only demographic and habitual data for theatrical viewing where the cost factor is essentially removed. Most streaming services don't even release that info. And ultimately, less advertising eventually means more/better content.
posted by bigmike485 at 5:20 PM on July 15, 2018 [1 favorite]


my buddy's retired dad has a hobby of buying a ticket to the earliest show in a multiplex and staying, moving from theater to theater, until he decides it's dinner time.

He immediately subscribed to MoviePass, which he descibed as a never-ending series of hassles which took him more than a month to navigate. He is old enough that using computers for a given commercial activity is a struggle for him, so it was not clear if he was describing a process run amuck or his own inability to parse registration UIs or both.

Now he uses MoviePass that same way as he did the matinee tickets. Boy, is he happy with the service!
posted by mwhybark at 6:51 PM on July 15, 2018 [3 favorites]


CCan anyone tell me if there's anything like this in Canada yet, besides Sinemia?

Cineplex, who control 4/5 of all Canadian theatres, probably have a team talking about a MoviePass clone right now. They are also getting extra stingy with perks like Scene points (2nd place in pre-show trivia? 5 pts!) so they probably also have a totally different team working on an anti-MoviePass plan as well.
posted by thecjm at 6:57 PM on July 15, 2018


I have quadrupled my movie going since getting a MP. I never bought snacks before, but now I buy either a soda or a popcorn. Theaters are making a lot more off me than they did not too long ago.

It's too bad MP couldn't get theaters to give them a ticket break, because I think one of the reasons theaters have been doing well lately is due to MP.

> It's like if you walked into a bar and said "I'd like to buy everyone's next round" and the bartender kicked you out, saying if they let you, nobody would ever buy themselves a drink again.

They are more afraid of the Netflix model. People get used to paying $9.99 for all you can binge content. Then when the model fails, people don't want to pay $15 for tickets again, when they weren't even paying that for a month of movies.

This all said, their stock is currently at 15 cents a share. I'm tempted to buy some, just to see how a reverse split works out, see if they can pull up the nosedive, and who knows, maybe they will win in the end. They have a better idea to me than either AMC or Cinemark's competing plans.
posted by cjorgensen at 7:18 PM on July 15, 2018 [2 favorites]


Yeah, I’m using it while I can. I’m one of the lucky ones who has had no problems and seen a ton of flix on VC dime. I’m happy.
posted by greermahoney at 7:41 PM on July 15, 2018 [1 favorite]


Now if only something would disrupt the movie snack business in a similar fashion I'd be set.

It's called baggy pants.
posted by kafziel at 8:13 PM on July 15, 2018 [1 favorite]


I go to our local independent cinema but the mention of Sinema in Canada made me look up where it is available. First screen:”Watch any movie at any theatre in The Canada”. The Canada?
posted by saucysault at 8:26 PM on July 15, 2018 [2 favorites]


The Canada. It's like The Ukraine.
posted by hippybear at 8:28 PM on July 15, 2018 [2 favorites]


Regular movie admissions were already loss leaders, from the exhibitors' point of view. So the AMC plan is no surprise at all. Concessions are what make money. (Hence the obligatory Coke trailers.)
posted by aurelian at 11:43 PM on July 15, 2018


Amusingly, this thread is leading to my partner and myself getting the AMC version. It makes sense for us, because we almost never go to a movie not at the super nice dine-in theater near us, which has in seat cocktail and food delivery. It's very nice, but expensive, so we usually only go for big effects movies - MCU and Star Wars, mostly. The tickets there are $20 each, so $20 a month for up to to three movies a week there is a STEAL. It's not included in movie pass, and I splurged on my home theater setup so less fancy theaters are a lot less appealing. AMC might win me on this.
posted by flaterik at 11:43 PM on July 15, 2018 [2 favorites]


The people I know in the movie theater business just kind of give them the "Whatever, I have no idea what they're trying to do, but I can't imagine it's going to work. You want to buy tickets from us at full price and sell them at a loss, Godspeed to you."
posted by bongo_x at 12:42 AM on July 16, 2018 [1 favorite]


I've noticed with MoviePass that my moviegoing habits have been altered. I used to only go to the movies maybe once a month or two, and usually something that was either a big blockbuster or a movie that had a high rating on Rotten Tomatoes. If a movie fell into that category of "looks interesting, but unsure if it's worth a ticket", I would try to remember to look it up a few months later to find it on Netflix or RedBox. But usually, I would just forget.

With MoviePass I still watch blockbusters, but I'm also more willing to take a chance on a lesser known movie and sometimes without even reading up anything about it. I'm intentionally seeking out movie theaters that are screening non-blockbusters, because it might be harder to find these movies later or I might just forget. It's how I ended up a couple weeks ago driving 20 minutes to a movie theater I've never been before to go and watch a movie I've never even heard of, the New Zealand film Hibiscus and Ruthless.

MoviePass in that way is kind of like the Cable TV subscription model: Customers purchase the service while maybe only wanting the most popular channels, but then smaller/lesser known channels are included/supported so that the minority of subscribers can watch them and as a side effect some unaware customers start finding these channels and watching them too.
posted by FJT at 10:09 AM on July 16, 2018


Oh, and most of the time those lesser known movies either can't be found on any streaming service/rental/library, OR they cost like $5 just to rent/stream. So, it is kind of worth it to go see these movies now instead of waiting for 6 months and then having to track them down.
posted by FJT at 10:20 AM on July 16, 2018


It feels like this is tied into large, long-term changes in tax policy. Instead of letting themselves be taxed so that the rest of us have the money to spend on little luxuries like watching movies in theatres, investors are flopping about ever-more-desperately for ways to bring us into theatres. They'll only do it if there's some chance - no matter how ridiculous, as in the case of MoviePass's financials - that they'll make a profit.

Taxes are great, because you only have to pay them if your movie makes money. When you pay them, and they're redistributed, even more people have money to spend on movies, and even more of your movies are profitable. Win-win!

But, no, we'll keep going down this tragedy-of-the-profits spiral. Investors will find ever stupider ways to give money away, while lobbying for ever-lower taxes. Stupid.
posted by clawsoon at 12:39 PM on July 16, 2018 [2 favorites]


Actually, I sometimes joke that MoviePass is one of the biggest endowments given for the arts this year.
posted by FJT at 1:21 PM on July 16, 2018 [4 favorites]


I have been a NYC MoviePass subscriber since June 2013 and I have happily paid as much as, I think, $45 a month for it. It's pretty much always worked out well for me as I typically see 1-2 movies a week if not more.

It's always been a bit of a hassle and their support has really suffered since the $10 thing happened, but I just keep in mind that I am getting like $100 of "value" out of them per month, and go on my merry way.

I have to imagine I was one of the first people to have to do the "ticket verification" thing, which was piloted at least a year ago, because whenever they introduce a new thing to discourage people from taking advantage of their service, I have been hit with it.

It's a weird thing dealing with them as a customer, because I know that if everyone behaved like me, they would be run into the ground that much quicker, so it's hard for me to get too mad when customer service takes hours to respond or they take six weeks to replace my broken card.
posted by lackutrol at 1:27 PM on July 16, 2018


Oh, and it truly changed my moviegoing habits; the fact that I can use it at three arthouses within easy walking/subway distance of my home has meant that I take a chance on a film all the time. I'm really grateful that they are effectively subsidizing so many small films.
posted by lackutrol at 1:29 PM on July 16, 2018 [2 favorites]


I'm movie passes worst nightmare.

I'd give the prize to a friend who's a semi-pro movie reviewer. His goal is to see 300 movies in theaters this year, and he's currently at 189. The vast majority were paid for with Moviepass.
posted by benbenson at 1:42 PM on July 16, 2018


Honestly if it wasn't for Moviepass I wouldn't be in AMC theaters at all. I hate their Stubs card program with a passion, and their two-tiered nonsense around that. Gold member? Oh here's this special line just for you. Fuck off with that bullshit.
posted by graventy at 2:49 PM on July 16, 2018 [1 favorite]


Honestly if it wasn't for Moviepass I wouldn't be in AMC theaters at all. I hate their Stubs card program with a passion

And they don't let you accrue Stubs points if you're using MoviePass, even before their new program. They're losing literally zero money on me, and in fact gaining because I see way more movies. I genuinely don't get it.
posted by Etrigan at 5:48 PM on July 16, 2018


I have quadrupled my movie going since getting a MP. I never bought snacks before, but now I buy either a soda or a popcorn. Theaters are making a lot more off me than they did not too long ago.

Ditto. It's not even close. Theatres should be giddy, because without MoviePass I suspect they'd be empty once again.


It's too bad MP couldn't get theaters to give them a ticket break, because I think one of the reasons theaters have been doing well lately is due to MP.

The last time I stood in line to buy tickets at the annoying little kiosks, there were eight people/groups ahead of me, but since we were jammed pretty tightly, it was intimate enough that I could notice that every single purchase, all eight in a row (nine, counting me) used a MoviePass card.

It might not last, no, but right now, cinemas banning MP are committing suicide.
posted by rokusan at 10:35 PM on July 16, 2018


I think they were hoping for the gym membership model where a large number of users pay the monthly fee but don't use the service. Unfortunately it's been adopted by a large number of power users at the start and that is going to substantially hurt cashflow.

I think a interesting expansion of their model would be to turn the company issued mastercard into an actual credit card that users can spend on entertainment items and concessions. If you allowed users to buy concessions on their card but only at locations that gave Moviepass a cut of the spend then they could get a nice incremental bump in revenue.
posted by ShakeyJake at 7:59 AM on July 17, 2018 [1 favorite]


I think they were hoping for the gym membership model

Profitable subscription service: Base it on something that people make New Year's Resolutions about.
posted by clawsoon at 8:46 AM on July 17, 2018


Heh, aren't gym memberships based on 3/6/12 month subscriptions at over $50 a month (plus signing-up fees), while making it damn hard to get out before they expire? That looks more like the cable business.

The power user problem seems more related to something like Spotify - they make money from people that listens occasionally on their commute Monday to Friday or when working out. If every user listened monthly to around 1500 songs they have to pay full royalties (which is why there are so many tracks and live sessions commissioned by them - they're paid upfront and pay no royalties), they likely lose money. And since they're bleeding money...
posted by lmfsilva at 9:31 AM on July 17, 2018


It might not last, no, but right now, cinemas banning MP are committing suicide.

Up until the point where Moviepass comes up and says “we’re buying tickets in bulk for $2.50 a pop or you lose all this trade we’ve been bringing you” and you look at the snack revenue and you look at the revenue coming through the Moviepass cards and then you acquiesce.

I suspect AMC would rather learn to live without the income than be strong armed once these rentiers are delivering a majority of their ticket revenue.
posted by Definitely Not Sean Spicer at 10:37 AM on July 17, 2018 [2 favorites]


So glad I didn't give into temptation and buy their stock at 15 cents a share. Here's the current price: HMNY ($0.108 as of this writing and that's DOWN 3.5% for the day).
posted by cjorgensen at 8:25 AM on July 19, 2018 [2 favorites]


MoviePass runs out of money.

Don't think I would go buying any HMNY shares right now
posted by dis_integration at 9:11 AM on July 27, 2018 [2 favorites]


I wonder how the financials of ClassPass are doing, which has the same model but for (as a number of people above suggested would be a better idea) fitness classes and studios.
posted by clawsoon at 10:49 AM on July 27, 2018


MoviePass runs out of money.

Yeah, people are reporting this morning that they are still unable to use their cards. That and you can't use MP to see any non-e-ticket showing of the new Mission Impossible coming out.

If service comes back I will try my card tonight. If not, I'm going to go to my e-ticket theater (which are unaffected for now by the outage) and see whatever is available.

I think the outage and running out of money will trigger a run on MoviePass, which might kill it very soon. So if you have an MP, use it while you can!
posted by FJT at 11:11 AM on July 27, 2018


I wasn’t able to try over the weekend, but work was slow Monday morning, so I tried it at my local theater. No dice, but the app said e-ticketing would work, and so I went to a slightly farther away theater for the first time and tried e-ticketing for the first time, and each was fine, but I am not betting on MoviePass lasting until this post closes.
posted by Etrigan at 11:48 PM on July 30, 2018


We find they are limiting which movies they list in the app. NOT intelligently, my partner had to go further for a film to a more expensive theater. The closer theater simply wasn't listed in the app.
posted by Goofyy at 4:09 AM on July 31, 2018


If there's anything I've learned from tech industry leaders, I wouldn't put it behind them to create artificial shortages
and limitations to know if there's a point the service can function and turn a profit.
posted by lmfsilva at 8:58 AM on July 31, 2018




MoviePass loves to compare its "disruptive" model to Netflix. The problem is that they don't control the content and they can't predict expense. Netflix could lose money for a long time because they could control how much they lost by mixing stuff they owned outright with things they were able to get limited access to on prices they could deal with. By measuring that against memberships and cashflow, they could get a realistic picture of how much they were losing while building up their business. They could keep the blood loss to a manageable level and even forecast with some degree of clarity when they would turn the corner into profitability.

By making MoviePass open to all movies, they were doomed, because certain studios and/or theater chains were in the middle and could fuck with them at will. I think the AMC's new pass--and analogous passes sure to follow from other chains--are the way forward for this model. It cuts out an additional step and helps them control costs.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:46 AM on July 31, 2018


MoviePass raises its prices, limits access to newest blockbusters in effort to save itself.

This is like a gym selling too many memberships and then taking out its most popular machines. To use the language of cinema, It's a bold strategy, Cotton. Let's see if it pays off for 'em.
posted by Etrigan at 10:00 AM on July 31, 2018


I know I'll get pilloried for this, but I think the way forward is more variation in movie theater pricing. Empty seats in a theater are a sign of inefficiency, and if the theater could sell those for much less (and price the most in-demand shows higher) then that would create a very different type of opportunity to get folks interested in movie-going again. I absolutely see a market for people who would enjoy checking an app that flags cheap (or even free) movies and going to something they only mildly want to see, just because it's $2. Last run theaters kind of do this, but there's an opportunity to do it with much more nuance.

DirtyOldTown has a good point, too, although I would add that Netflix started out with a trickle of content to accompany its DVD service and then grew that over time, so folks still had access to basically all content ever (via DVDs) while the library grew until it was comprehensive enough to be worthwhile in its own right. A subscription model that had something more like "check the app and see what's available; right now you can see X, Y, and Z at these specific times in these specific theaters" and interfaced with theaters to fill their open seats at a deep discount might be compelling but it'd be a harder initial sell to folks who had to sign up without knowing exactly what they might get out of it. Still, the fact that Spotify or Netflix's catalogs are limited seems to be ok with customers given that they still provide a solid lifetime's worth of awesome content.
posted by mosst at 10:07 AM on July 31, 2018


I wonder how the financials of ClassPass are doing, which has the same model but for (as a number of people above suggested would be a better idea) fitness classes and studios.

It's not really the same, though - classpass only works for a limited set of member studios, the service pays a discounted rate to the studio (I think it's about half of what paying customers pay?), customers only have access to 2-10ish classes per month (it's a credit model, and there are tiers), and the classpass service only has a limited number of seats in each class (if they have any at all) which can and do sell out. It's more limited, and not designed to ultimately undercut the studios' other business, unlike MoviePass.
posted by mosst at 10:14 AM on July 31, 2018 [1 favorite]


The other thing to keep in mind about AMC's pass is that as a solidly profitable existing company taking on the pass as one aspect of its operation, rather than its entire source of income, AMC's worst case scenario is losing some profits from its existing customers. Really, given how absurdly high the markup is on concessions, they can likely come out ahead overall even if they lose money on the passes, simply because they'll be putting more butts into seats to buy $10 tubs of popcorn and $6 soft drinks.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 12:11 PM on July 31, 2018 [1 favorite]


I think the way forward is more variation in movie theater pricing. Empty seats in a theater are a sign of inefficiency, and if the theater could sell those for much less (and price the most in-demand shows higher) then that would create a very different type of opportunity to get folks interested in movie-going again.

I keep coming back to this, because it's absolutely true. My family went from seeing movies almost never to being regular moviegoers once we learned to take advantage of the variances in our local theater chain's pricing. We see a lot of Saturday and Sunday morning movies because non-3D, non-Dolby, non-IMAX shows starting before noon are $7 a ticket. We see movies on Tuesday night because the chain's frequent moviegoers club does tickets on those nights for only $5 each.

Afternoon tickets also cost less than evening tickets. And very popular movies that fill the IMAX and Dolby screens always get smaller plain digital showings scheduled so that there are cheaper options for stuff like the Marvel movies, for instance. When a kid gets to school on Monday and the other kids are discussing the new blockbuster, no one asks or cares if they saw it in 2D at 11 am for $7 a seat, when others saw it in 3D IMAX at dinnertime for $20 a ticket.

The frequent moviegoer program/app also lets you book online without paying fees (unlike Fandango) and lets you cancel with a full refund if you do so before start time of the show. They give you points for purchases, both on tickets and concessions, which accumulate and become credits.

And which is the chain that is forward thinking and working on different pricing models to better cater to modern audiences? It's AMC again, of course.

My only complaint is the separate concession lines for AMC Stubs members (the frequent moviegoer club) both because having a VIP line and a plebs line is offensive and because I didn't get a membership until around the same time everyone figured out what a good deal it is, and thus have never actually gotten to use this system to skip the line.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 12:36 PM on July 31, 2018


Impossibly, MoviePass just got even crappier:
the movie-ticketing service is now severely limiting subscriber options, offering a choice between just two movies: Slender Man and Mission: Impossible—Fallout. Bah, you say, that’s no choice at all—and you’re right, but for the wrong reasons...what MoviePass is actually offering is the chance to see [Mission Impossible] at an odd hour, or [Slender Man] at basically any time you’d like
posted by DirtyOldTown at 2:44 PM on August 13, 2018 [2 favorites]


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