Les Moonves and CBS Face Allegations of Sexual Misconduct
July 28, 2018 2:08 AM Subscribe
Six women accuse the C.E.O. of harassment and intimidation, and dozens more describe abuse at his company.
Jen Kirby at Vox summarizes:
Les Moonves, the chief executive of CBS, faces sexual harassment allegations from at least six women, who said the network titan groped or forcibly kissed them, often during what the women had believed were professional meetings. The accusations, which span the 1980s to the 2000s, were detailed in an exposé by the New Yorker’s Ronan Farrow. Two of the women also said they were retaliated against for not acquiescing to Moonves’s overtures.posted by Barack Spinoza at 2:28 AM on July 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
Looks like more solid work by Farrow. I very much hope he can keep focused and avoid the rockstar attention he is starting to get, because the work is important.
The ironic problem with cleaning house in the goddamn entertainment industry, of all places, is you're basically going to have to burn the whole thing down and start over*. I mean, I barely danced around the edges of the industry when working there, in both Hollywood and NYC, and even stupid little nobody-me could see almost every day that it was a business of exploiting young naive people with dreams. (And, yes, a few calculating/cynical young people always buy into the bargain willingly, sure, but those are still few, even today.)
IME, the creeps and enablers of all this were not always evil old men -- there are more than a few evil old female executives at the networks, in particular, and I have to assume both sexes have spawned their own younger evil proteges, too -- but so much of the business is built on the 1960's media boom that it's damn certain that most of them are, and they are still hunkered down in offices that look straight out of Mad Men, believing they are titans, like all the career-makers who basically owned actors in 1930's Hollywood.
I'm ranting. Shorter version: keep up the good work, Ronan, especially the careful research. Misstep even once and they'll wreck you.
* Note: this is fine. Burn them all.
posted by rokusan at 3:56 AM on July 28, 2018 [26 favorites]
The ironic problem with cleaning house in the goddamn entertainment industry, of all places, is you're basically going to have to burn the whole thing down and start over*. I mean, I barely danced around the edges of the industry when working there, in both Hollywood and NYC, and even stupid little nobody-me could see almost every day that it was a business of exploiting young naive people with dreams. (And, yes, a few calculating/cynical young people always buy into the bargain willingly, sure, but those are still few, even today.)
IME, the creeps and enablers of all this were not always evil old men -- there are more than a few evil old female executives at the networks, in particular, and I have to assume both sexes have spawned their own younger evil proteges, too -- but so much of the business is built on the 1960's media boom that it's damn certain that most of them are, and they are still hunkered down in offices that look straight out of Mad Men, believing they are titans, like all the career-makers who basically owned actors in 1930's Hollywood.
I'm ranting. Shorter version: keep up the good work, Ronan, especially the careful research. Misstep even once and they'll wreck you.
* Note: this is fine. Burn them all.
posted by rokusan at 3:56 AM on July 28, 2018 [26 favorites]
We have informal staff lunches on Fridays to chat and a colleague (with whom I am friends!) saw this on his phone and said "It looks like Les Moonves is the latest victim of #MeToo" and I was like "Uh, I think you mean the women Les Moonves harassed and assaulted are the most recent people to speak out about #MeToo" and he was like "yeah, okay, sure" and I know he didn't mean anything bad by it but the thoughtless framing (which I see a lot) of these incredibly powerful harassers who have destroyed people's lives and careers as "victims" of a "movement" makes me absolutely fucking insane. They had agency they used to target other people and they are, possibly, finally facing some minor degree of consequences for their actions after years or even decades so no, they are definitely not "victims".
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 5:02 AM on July 28, 2018 [119 favorites]
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 5:02 AM on July 28, 2018 [119 favorites]
and I know he didn't mean anything bad by it
I mean none of them ever mean anything bad, even while they do very bad things.
I don’t mean to go after your friend, and I’m sorry, because that always sucks to hear. But I am now approaching 100% if men I’ve given a pass to for that kind of thing demonstrating very earnestly that they were not deserving of that pass and in fact have deep wells of misogyny boiling up inside them. Just because they’re very earnest about it doesn’t make it less poisonous.
posted by schadenfrau at 5:28 AM on July 28, 2018 [43 favorites]
I mean none of them ever mean anything bad, even while they do very bad things.
I don’t mean to go after your friend, and I’m sorry, because that always sucks to hear. But I am now approaching 100% if men I’ve given a pass to for that kind of thing demonstrating very earnestly that they were not deserving of that pass and in fact have deep wells of misogyny boiling up inside them. Just because they’re very earnest about it doesn’t make it less poisonous.
posted by schadenfrau at 5:28 AM on July 28, 2018 [43 favorites]
https://twitter.com/Travon/status/1022995594900516865
posted by Former Congressional Representative Lenny Lemming at 5:53 AM on July 28, 2018 [12 favorites]
posted by Former Congressional Representative Lenny Lemming at 5:53 AM on July 28, 2018 [12 favorites]
Mod note: A couple deleted. Oh dear God, do not troll/derail in here by describing other men called out by #metoo as "victims." Everyone else: please flag before jumping in to strike down with great vengeance and furious anger. These discussions don't have to be total shit. (And thanks to the person who did flag)
posted by taz (staff) at 6:07 AM on July 28, 2018 [32 favorites]
posted by taz (staff) at 6:07 AM on July 28, 2018 [32 favorites]
I wonder if they will let Stephen Colbert roast him.
posted by Brocktoon at 7:26 AM on July 28, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by Brocktoon at 7:26 AM on July 28, 2018 [4 favorites]
the thoughtless framing (which I see a lot) of these incredibly powerful harassers who have destroyed people's lives and careers as "victims" of a "movement" makes me absolutely fucking insane.
Same. And that’s because it is insane. Put into any other context and it becomes apparent just how weird this approach really is. “Uh oh, looks like the Golden State Killer is another victim of the muder-in-the-first movement.”
posted by supercrayon at 7:36 AM on July 28, 2018 [53 favorites]
Same. And that’s because it is insane. Put into any other context and it becomes apparent just how weird this approach really is. “Uh oh, looks like the Golden State Killer is another victim of the muder-in-the-first movement.”
posted by supercrayon at 7:36 AM on July 28, 2018 [53 favorites]
The ironic problem with cleaning house in the goddamn entertainment industry, of all places, is you're basically going to have to burn the whole thing down and start over
I have said the same thing about journalism. It is an industry that not only partook in that kind of workplace terrorism, but lionized those people for decades. You still have media outlets defend this kind of behaviour or deny it outright, and then try to spin it as some sort of "witch hunt". The National Post up here in Canada is the worst offender for it.
"It looks like Les Moonves is the latest victim of #MeToo" and I was like "Uh, I think you mean the women Les Moonves harassed and assaulted are the most recent people to speak out about #MeToo" and he was like "yeah, okay, sure" and I know he didn't mean anything bad by it but the thoughtless framing (which I see a lot) of these incredibly powerful harassers who have destroyed people's lives and careers as "victims" of a "movement" makes me absolutely fucking insane.
I find it interesting that the Alpha males who got to the top by manipulating and controlling other people's behaviours suddenly morph into helpless little boys when exposed for their tyranny. They wear one mask until they are cornered, and then promptly whip out another.
Workplaces shouldn't be war zones and we shouldn't have a system where people without talent or ideas can make it to the top by bullying people, and then get enabled by people who hide their deeds by giving them the image of being a Great Man. It is a gross waste of resources.
And then, when that narrative is set, people follow it blindly, never being able to see the narrative was a sham all along used as a fortress to protect the predator and make the prey look like villains. It is a feint, and a failsafe.
Both NBC and CBS have enabled a very bad culture with impunity for decades, and I am wondering at what point will someone try to dismiss the next wave of criticism by claiming that the facts are being "weaponized" to take down these sheltered little boys.
Thank you for the link.
posted by Alexandra Kitty at 8:31 AM on July 28, 2018 [10 favorites]
I have said the same thing about journalism. It is an industry that not only partook in that kind of workplace terrorism, but lionized those people for decades. You still have media outlets defend this kind of behaviour or deny it outright, and then try to spin it as some sort of "witch hunt". The National Post up here in Canada is the worst offender for it.
"It looks like Les Moonves is the latest victim of #MeToo" and I was like "Uh, I think you mean the women Les Moonves harassed and assaulted are the most recent people to speak out about #MeToo" and he was like "yeah, okay, sure" and I know he didn't mean anything bad by it but the thoughtless framing (which I see a lot) of these incredibly powerful harassers who have destroyed people's lives and careers as "victims" of a "movement" makes me absolutely fucking insane.
I find it interesting that the Alpha males who got to the top by manipulating and controlling other people's behaviours suddenly morph into helpless little boys when exposed for their tyranny. They wear one mask until they are cornered, and then promptly whip out another.
Workplaces shouldn't be war zones and we shouldn't have a system where people without talent or ideas can make it to the top by bullying people, and then get enabled by people who hide their deeds by giving them the image of being a Great Man. It is a gross waste of resources.
And then, when that narrative is set, people follow it blindly, never being able to see the narrative was a sham all along used as a fortress to protect the predator and make the prey look like villains. It is a feint, and a failsafe.
Both NBC and CBS have enabled a very bad culture with impunity for decades, and I am wondering at what point will someone try to dismiss the next wave of criticism by claiming that the facts are being "weaponized" to take down these sheltered little boys.
Thank you for the link.
posted by Alexandra Kitty at 8:31 AM on July 28, 2018 [10 favorites]
I was struck by how in (at least) two of those cases described, Moonves could plausibly claim that the end of the actresses' careers could be because they were "past their prime," rather than because he blackballed them. The patriarchy can make it so easy to hide crimes against women like that. "Oh, no, there was no discrimination or retaliation! They just weren't pretty/young/talented enough!" And society nods and says, "That makes sense!" and goes about its business.
posted by lazuli at 8:47 AM on July 28, 2018 [24 favorites]
posted by lazuli at 8:47 AM on July 28, 2018 [24 favorites]
However, experts on sexual harassment told me that misconduct by a chief executive can reverberate across aspects of even the largest companies. “If you have a company with an abuser on the top, they typically surround themselves with people like them, who engage in similar behavior,” Debra Katz, a lawyer specializing in sexual harassment, told me. “It can put a set of enablers in place, who protect powerful people when they get challenged for misconduct, and who work to discredit and manage out women who come forward with allegations.”So...just a civilization-wide reboot, then?
posted by schadenfrau at 9:13 AM on July 28, 2018 [16 favorites]
The ironic problem with cleaning house in the goddamn [X], of all places, is you're basically going to have to burn the whole thing down and start over
This is not specific to an industry, geographic location, or economic status. Everywhere men are in power, which is almost everywhere, you will find a lengthy history of men abusing their power.
And there's nothing ironic about it.
So...just a civilization-wide reboot, then?
A-yup.
posted by Revvy at 9:34 AM on July 28, 2018 [19 favorites]
This is not specific to an industry, geographic location, or economic status. Everywhere men are in power, which is almost everywhere, you will find a lengthy history of men abusing their power.
And there's nothing ironic about it.
So...just a civilization-wide reboot, then?
A-yup.
posted by Revvy at 9:34 AM on July 28, 2018 [19 favorites]
Man, I cut-and-pasted something offensive and stupid Les Moonves said into a zine I was doing after hours on the copy machine at work in, like, 1988, and I've hated him ever since. He seemed at the time, and still seems, like a smug, self-regarding mediocrity so stuck inside the dead center-mass of consensus normality that he cannot conceive of an outside.
Of course he turns out to be a serial abuser, because of course he is. May those he victimized find some peace, or at least the satisfaction of being heard at long last, in his deeds being hauled into the light of day.
posted by adamgreenfield at 12:03 PM on July 28, 2018 [8 favorites]
Of course he turns out to be a serial abuser, because of course he is. May those he victimized find some peace, or at least the satisfaction of being heard at long last, in his deeds being hauled into the light of day.
posted by adamgreenfield at 12:03 PM on July 28, 2018 [8 favorites]
a civilization-wide reboot
Hey, it worked for a tribe of baboons.
posted by fings at 1:58 PM on July 28, 2018 [9 favorites]
Hey, it worked for a tribe of baboons.
posted by fings at 1:58 PM on July 28, 2018 [9 favorites]
''The good news for humans is that it looks like peaceful conditions, once established, can be maintained,'' he said.Well the science is clear, even if he forgot to mention the bad news.
''And if baboons can do it,'' he said, ''why not us? The bad news is that you might have to first knock out all the most aggressive males to get there.''
posted by schadenfrau at 2:39 PM on July 28, 2018 [14 favorites]
The patriarchy can make it so easy to hide crimes against women like that. "Oh, no, there was no discrimination or retaliation! They just weren't pretty/young/talented enough!"
A coworker of mine said a couple of years ago that Lindsay Lohan wasn't a fucked-up mess, she was a victim of Hollywood and the shitty men in it -- and that Lohan's only "crime" was in not just going away like someone clearly wanted her to. Ever since these stories started coming out, every time it's discovered that yet another batch of women were blackballed, we just sort of look at each other and nod, like, "Oh, of course that's what happened to Illeana Douglas's career."
posted by Etrigan at 5:29 PM on July 28, 2018 [13 favorites]
A coworker of mine said a couple of years ago that Lindsay Lohan wasn't a fucked-up mess, she was a victim of Hollywood and the shitty men in it -- and that Lohan's only "crime" was in not just going away like someone clearly wanted her to. Ever since these stories started coming out, every time it's discovered that yet another batch of women were blackballed, we just sort of look at each other and nod, like, "Oh, of course that's what happened to Illeana Douglas's career."
posted by Etrigan at 5:29 PM on July 28, 2018 [13 favorites]
"The bad news is that you might have to first knock out all the most aggressive males to get there."
Who says that's bad news?
posted by oneswellfoop at 5:51 PM on July 28, 2018 [4 favorites]
Who says that's bad news?
posted by oneswellfoop at 5:51 PM on July 28, 2018 [4 favorites]
Well a lot of women are coming forward to say that Moonves supported them and created a good atmosphere for women, including one I know personally and a couple more my parents or their friends know. No one is surprised about the article, there were rumors this story was coming for months so I guess it's possible it's a well orchestrated rebuttal but I can't see these people caring to be involved in that. The accusations against him personally are from quite a while ago as far as I can tell, yes? Maybe he has changed since then because I'm having a hard time reconciling these two narratives in a way that I did not with the Weinstein, Brian Singer or Charlie Rose cases where they just highlighted things people had known for ages.
Also the court case is coming up and yeah. I don't think the writers of the article are wrong, I'm sure they fact-checked, and he admitted he made advances to women at work and made them uncomfortable in the 90s but the idea that CBS is hugely anti-woman or that he knew about some of the decisions made seems odd to a lot of people.
I guess we will see. I hope no one is getting played.
posted by fshgrl at 11:56 PM on July 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
Also the court case is coming up and yeah. I don't think the writers of the article are wrong, I'm sure they fact-checked, and he admitted he made advances to women at work and made them uncomfortable in the 90s but the idea that CBS is hugely anti-woman or that he knew about some of the decisions made seems odd to a lot of people.
I guess we will see. I hope no one is getting played.
posted by fshgrl at 11:56 PM on July 28, 2018 [1 favorite]
This is the guy who famously said in early 2016 that Trump's run for president "may not be good for America, but it's damn good for CBS."
I don't think it's a coincidence that a man who abused his power for sexual gratification was also happy to hurt democracy for financial fun times.
posted by saturday_morning at 12:15 AM on July 29, 2018 [12 favorites]
I don't think it's a coincidence that a man who abused his power for sexual gratification was also happy to hurt democracy for financial fun times.
posted by saturday_morning at 12:15 AM on July 29, 2018 [12 favorites]
Part of why it seems odd is that CBS under Moonves greenlighted a number of shows that actually had great roles for women, and not just young cute ones. I'm thinking of THE GOOD WIFE and its spin-off, THE GOOD FIGHT, as well as the more recent MOM (which for the last few years has featured a regular cast of five women, aged 40-70+, and blows away the Bechdel test every week).
posted by wendyg at 6:18 AM on July 29, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by wendyg at 6:18 AM on July 29, 2018 [1 favorite]
Yes, Wendy and fshgirl, I don't have any bad inside info on Moonves himself, either, unlike Weinstein and the other everyone-has-known-forever criminals. I mean, he's unliked and seen as a my-kingdom-runner type, but I don't remember any sexual abuse buzz, specifically. But... well, let's find out, right?
I mean, in all these cases, I think the best we can hope for is a thorough investigation that includes, hopefully, some real testimony, followed by appropriate charges/action/punishment. It's something not in fashion in some circles lately, but we really need to stick to thoughtful justice, long term, in order to make it impossible for bad actors to weaponize accusations.
Like, I respect the work Farrow, specifically, and a few others are doing, so far, because they seem to be using a lot of caution, but I still don't like the idea of trial-by-media for obvious reasons. It's way too far down the reality-TV/social media rabbit hole that brought us to this weird timeline we're in right now.
(i.e. Good investigative reporting leads to criminal investigations. It shouldn't replace them.)
posted by rokusan at 7:31 AM on July 29, 2018 [1 favorite]
I mean, in all these cases, I think the best we can hope for is a thorough investigation that includes, hopefully, some real testimony, followed by appropriate charges/action/punishment. It's something not in fashion in some circles lately, but we really need to stick to thoughtful justice, long term, in order to make it impossible for bad actors to weaponize accusations.
Like, I respect the work Farrow, specifically, and a few others are doing, so far, because they seem to be using a lot of caution, but I still don't like the idea of trial-by-media for obvious reasons. It's way too far down the reality-TV/social media rabbit hole that brought us to this weird timeline we're in right now.
(i.e. Good investigative reporting leads to criminal investigations. It shouldn't replace them.)
posted by rokusan at 7:31 AM on July 29, 2018 [1 favorite]
Plus someone has been salting the gossip columns with rumors all year, maybe longer.
posted by fshgrl at 8:20 AM on July 29, 2018
posted by fshgrl at 8:20 AM on July 29, 2018
On what planet is “he’s nice to some women” a defense against any of the very detailed, very corroborated accusations made in the Farrow piece?
posted by schadenfrau at 8:49 AM on July 29, 2018 [26 favorites]
posted by schadenfrau at 8:49 AM on July 29, 2018 [26 favorites]
It doesn't. I think maaaaaybe what that's getting at is that some folks, you're not surprised to hear this shit about (Louis CK certainly dropped hints to say the least) and others well, you didn't get that impression from them previously (hey Coz) at least most of the time.
I dunno, I heard someone openly saying sexual harassment (in addition to the usual other sorts) was going on IRL the other day and I am still boggling going "Who?!?" If I think of every creepy sexual harasser dude I've dealt with, versus the possible suspects, the possible suspects just don't act like that in my experience. So if anyone I know IRL gets busted for this I am gonna be flabbergasted. Maybe that's going on here too. I never paid much attention to Moonves in my life so hell if I know there.
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:33 AM on July 29, 2018
I dunno, I heard someone openly saying sexual harassment (in addition to the usual other sorts) was going on IRL the other day and I am still boggling going "Who?!?" If I think of every creepy sexual harasser dude I've dealt with, versus the possible suspects, the possible suspects just don't act like that in my experience. So if anyone I know IRL gets busted for this I am gonna be flabbergasted. Maybe that's going on here too. I never paid much attention to Moonves in my life so hell if I know there.
posted by jenfullmoon at 10:33 AM on July 29, 2018
I don't see people saying that ("he's nice to women"). I see people saying that his actions (promoting/creating some women-lead work) seem at odds with these reports. That's it. We look at people's actions and we think that says something about who they are in private. Sometimes true, sometimes not true.
posted by amanda at 10:36 AM on July 29, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by amanda at 10:36 AM on July 29, 2018 [4 favorites]
The accusations against him personally are from quite a while ago as far as I can tell, yes?
This is textbook minimizing of a harasser's actions.
Maybe he has changed since then
And maybe he has not. This is textbook minimizing of a harasser's actions.
with the Weinstein, Brian Singer or Charlie Rose cases
"He's not as bad as these other harassers" is textbook minimizing of a harasser's actions.
I don't think the writers of the article are wrong,
But?
I'm sure they fact-checked
But?
and he admitted he made advances to women at work and made them uncomfortable in the 90s
But? (And "made them uncomfortable" is textbook minimizing of a harasser's actions.)
but the idea that CBS is hugely anti-woman or that he knew about some of the decisions made seems odd to a lot of people.
This is textbook minimizing of a harasser's actions.
Misogyny is a powerful undercurrent in our culture. And a large part of its power is that it make us look for every possible way to minimize and excuse it.
posted by AlSweigart at 5:58 PM on July 29, 2018 [19 favorites]
This is textbook minimizing of a harasser's actions.
Maybe he has changed since then
And maybe he has not. This is textbook minimizing of a harasser's actions.
with the Weinstein, Brian Singer or Charlie Rose cases
"He's not as bad as these other harassers" is textbook minimizing of a harasser's actions.
I don't think the writers of the article are wrong,
But?
I'm sure they fact-checked
But?
and he admitted he made advances to women at work and made them uncomfortable in the 90s
But? (And "made them uncomfortable" is textbook minimizing of a harasser's actions.)
but the idea that CBS is hugely anti-woman or that he knew about some of the decisions made seems odd to a lot of people.
This is textbook minimizing of a harasser's actions.
Misogyny is a powerful undercurrent in our culture. And a large part of its power is that it make us look for every possible way to minimize and excuse it.
posted by AlSweigart at 5:58 PM on July 29, 2018 [19 favorites]
These stories are always bittersweet. Sweet because it's way past time for these wicked men to be exposed for what they've done. Bitter because it means there have been victims, presumably more than have come forward. Doubly bitter because what repercussions do any of these evil people really face? They're already rich and powerful and as far as I can tell, losing their jobs/positions/careers/reputation isn't even a slap on the wrist. They still get to live their lives out freely as immorally-rich people.
posted by GoblinHoney at 12:16 PM on July 31, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by GoblinHoney at 12:16 PM on July 31, 2018 [2 favorites]
Stephen Colbert: Accountability Is Meaningless Unless It's For Everybody.
posted by Pendragon at 1:58 PM on July 31, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by Pendragon at 1:58 PM on July 31, 2018 [1 favorite]
Colbert handled that amazingly well.
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:53 PM on July 31, 2018
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:53 PM on July 31, 2018
Oh no. I feel like all this praise for Colbert means he's going to be the next one to add to the list. I'll keep hope that he's not, but not much hope based on how all this has turned out.
posted by LizBoBiz at 2:14 AM on August 1, 2018
posted by LizBoBiz at 2:14 AM on August 1, 2018
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posted by Barack Spinoza at 2:11 AM on July 28, 2018 [7 favorites]