Continuation of a basic income project or cheaper beer?
August 7, 2018 6:55 AM   Subscribe

 
Full disclosure: I will be writing about this for a local news outlet, but won't post it here. (You can PM me for it when it's done.)

Also, Barley Days is not bad insofar as Ontario craft goes, but it's still a bad look to side with Ford. As I said on my beer podcast Twitter feed, I'd like to believe that Ontarians would rather have a strong social safety net for the less fortunate than cheap beer, but here we are.
posted by Kitteh at 6:57 AM on August 7 [12 favorites]


Thanks Ontario liberal strategists who figured Ford would be out in one term and they'd get to be in charge again so start spreading FUD about the NDP . Thanks so much.
posted by Space Coyote at 6:58 AM on August 7 [4 favorites]


The populist model of politics that has been growing in Ontario and the rest of Canada is worrisome. I hate this timeline and I hate that these types of distraction politics are working so effectively. Pay attention to this other bullshit while I really destroy some more important bullshit over here. Vote for this one dumb thing while I destabilize and ruin this other thing that people depend on. We're all just sheep. Ugh.
posted by Fizz at 7:09 AM on August 7 [12 favorites]


Christ, what an asshole.
posted by SonInLawOfSam at 7:16 AM on August 7 [10 favorites]


Dear God, hope you got the letter
And I pray you can make it better
Down here
I don't mean a big reduction in the price of beer
But all the people that you made in your image
See them starving on their feet
'Cause they don't get enough to eat
From God
posted by bitslayer at 7:26 AM on August 7 [30 favorites]


to lower minimum price of beer to $1

Obviously, the market has been clamouring for this. Just look at all these great beers on sale for the previous minimum of ... good lord, 6 cans of Bud Light cost $14? You really do have a problem, Ontario.
posted by sfenders at 7:26 AM on August 7 [2 favorites]


Obviously, the market has been clamouring for this. Just look at all these great beers on sale for the previous minimum of ... good lord, 6 cans of Bud Light cost $14? You really do have a problem, Ontario.

No, we didn't - beer isn't a human right. Food, housing - these are human rights, and exactly what our government has ended for 4000 people in the basic income pilot program, in order to subsidize massive companies to get them to sell cheap(er) beer.

We didn't have a problem. Now we do.
posted by jb at 7:29 AM on August 7 [36 favorites]


I did not mean to suggest that non-extortionate beer pricing should take priority over basic human rights.
posted by sfenders at 7:36 AM on August 7 [7 favorites]


The only "winners" out of this plan will be major corporations and it will not benefit local Ontario craft brewers one whit. You know, local craft brewers who are Ontarian residents, who pay taxes, who can't afford to lower their beer prices because making a product at smaller level costs time and money and ingredients, who are supposed to be the kind of business owners Dougie claims to care about.
posted by Kitteh at 7:45 AM on August 7 [5 favorites]


He is also literally sending public school sex ed back to 1998 and gerrymandering Toronto's municipal government out of spite. I hate every Ford voter, especially those brigading the Toronto subreddit with endless Toronto Sun articles trafficking in Islamophobia and conspiracy theroy so, so much.
posted by yellowbinder at 7:58 AM on August 7 [16 favorites]


"no subsidies or tax handouts" and "will give brewers promotions and advertising advantages in the LCBO, such as limited time discounts and in-store displays"

There are a number of breweries that are refusing to participate (for a variety of reasons, I imagine).
posted by VioletU at 8:02 AM on August 7 [1 favorite]


good lord, 6 cans of Bud Light cost $14? You really do have a problem, Ontario.

Bud Light was already priced above the minimum for reasons unrelated to government regulation. The real bottom shelf stuff is in the “value” category.
posted by rodlymight at 8:07 AM on August 7 [2 favorites]


Fuck yeah, Geordan from Napanee isn't going to participate! W00t! (His story is one of my favorite homebrewer to pro stories. If you ever go to his brewery/bottle shop, be amazed at the beer and how damn small his set up is.)
posted by Kitteh at 8:09 AM on August 7 [1 favorite]




Social Services Minister Lisa MacLeod said the government decided to end the program after being informed by ministry officials that it was failing to help people become "independent contributors to the economy."

Was it ever the point of the project to make recipients 'independent contributors to the economy' (whatever that means)? I understood that the point of the basic income project wasn't so much making money off the deal, but by giving people a basic income and with it, agency over prioritizing their own life decisions, you reduced the drain on other social services, particularly health. It was an approach which was simply more efficient, in addition to the obvious humanitarian argument for looking after the poor.

Shock and anger in Hamilton after province says it'll cancel the basic income project. "The stories we've been getting back are people who are eating healthier. They're able to participate in the community again. People are going back to school. They're buying winter clothes they couldn't afford and staying warm. These are very human stories, and they've have been shut down by an uncaring and ill conceived political decision."

Seems to me that there was data coming in, that the project was indeed working, even if that anecdotal evidence didn't fit a scientific model yet.
posted by Capt. Renault at 8:19 AM on August 7 [11 favorites]


Yeah, Muskoka and Great Lakes have added to the chorus of "No thanks, we like to pay our workers a living wage."
posted by Kitteh at 8:20 AM on August 7 [9 favorites]




you can get a beer for a buck in michigan - hell, you can get a 24 oz can - TWO beers for a buck

and you get what you pay for - a cheap shitty drunk
posted by pyramid termite at 8:23 AM on August 7 [1 favorite]


> As I said on my beer podcast Twitter feed, I'd like to believe that Ontarians would rather have a strong social safety net for the less fortunate than cheap beer, but here we are.

A lot of people in this province would rather have cheap beer than water that's safe to drink.
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:23 AM on August 7 [8 favorites]


Thanks for posting. I'm so disgusted and disheartened by what is going to happen to our province under this government. I work in the public service, so I feel insecure saying much more than that, but I think the right-wing steamrolling over evidence-based policy is going to be even worse than it was under Harris.
posted by sevenyearlurk at 8:26 AM on August 7 [12 favorites]


Harris hobbled Toronto in the '90s and now Ford is going do his best to finish the city off, and all of this and more is going to come down on the heads of the non-wealthy citizens of this province because his base didn't like having a lesbian Premier.
posted by The Card Cheat at 8:34 AM on August 7 [11 favorites]


Bud Light was already priced above the minimum for reasons unrelated to government regulation. The real bottom shelf stuff is in the “value” category.

Yeah if it wasn't clear, I was trying to point out that practically *all* of them are priced well above what is said to be the previous minimum. All the ones I clicked on randomly, anyway, no matter what quantity you're buying, bottles or cans, including both those on sale and those in the "value" category such as PBR, Keystone, Black Label, Busch. Aside from a marketing stunt here or there, lowering the minimum does not appear likely to have any effect.

Bud Light was chosen for comparison because it's widely available, not in any way "premium", and it seems unlikely that there's any special reason why Bud Light should cost more relative to other brands in Ontario than in other jurisdictions. It is not my favourite brand. Beer is not my favourite drink.

Most of it is due to taxes, but I do wonder how much is a result of the Beer Store management. Quebec seems to have similar taxes, but much lower prices.
posted by sfenders at 8:48 AM on August 7


There are a number of breweries that are refusing to participate (for a variety of reasons, I imagine).

As a Red Cap man, I hope that Brick Brewery refuses to participate. Continuing to buy my staple beer made cheaper would be a vindication of DoFo, but having to switch brands because of that would really be Teh Suck. Come on, Brick -- do the right thing, and eliminate my moral dilemma for me!
posted by Capt. Renault at 9:02 AM on August 7


"He said it amounted to the government "putting its hand in your pocket" each time you went to buy a six-pack of beer. "

That's rich, coming from the same asshole who just took millions right out of people's pockets.
posted by GoblinHoney at 9:04 AM on August 7 [7 favorites]


"Ontario Proud" was all over YouTube, Facebook and was cold texting in the run up to the election. Same bullshit as Trump and likely funded by the same crooks. Endlessly repeating"gas plant scandal" and the dickweeds at Doug rallies were shouting "lock her up!

To make myself feel better, I'm going to put some posters along the drive into Toronto...YOU GULLIBLE DIPSHITS.
posted by bonobothegreat at 9:20 AM on August 7 [5 favorites]


Wait. How did Doug Ford get elected after the multiple travesties that was his brother Rob? Premier of Ontario? WTF!?!?!? I feel like banging my head into a wall.
posted by GregorWill at 10:29 AM on August 7 [2 favorites]


Pandering to people's worst instincts will never not be a winning formula for right-wing populists, that's how.
posted by The Card Cheat at 10:58 AM on August 7 [5 favorites]


Dangit, I spent all my rage on the "ancient Greek music" thread last night, and now I can only feebly flail at this. I've been back in SW Ontario looking after sick parents this summer, and it's amazing how much Ford has managed to undermine/destroy in a few months. Every time we drive out into rural SW Ontario for some twee farmer's market or countryside eatery, I get paranoid and fighty. Brown + queer was never a safe combo around these parts, but I'm feeling hypervigilant these days…
posted by LMGM at 11:11 AM on August 7 [2 favorites]


The Card Cheat: "A lot of people in this province would rather have cheap beer than water that's safe to drink."

It worked so well for medieval Europe, though.
posted by Chrysostom at 11:15 AM on August 7 [1 favorite]


Just out of curiosity, has Mothers Against Drunk Driving had anything to say about this? They've been very outspoken about lowering the price of alcohol sold in bars in the past , at least in Newfoundland. They're very effective lobbyists, and I can imagine some very effective ads they might have a hand in to show the real costs of buck a beer, in terms of people's lives.
posted by peppermind at 11:31 AM on August 7


Just out of curiosity, has Mothers Against Drunk Driving had anything to say about this?

Yup.

"...Mothers Against Drunk Driving (MADD) Canada said cheaper suds are a bad idea — pointing out the impact "extends beyond the price of beer."

"Lower alcohol prices can lead to increased consumption, particularly among those with alcohol problems, and among young people," MADD Canada said in an email."


But, hey, no problem -- DoFo says Ontario folks are responsible enough to know when they've had one too many. Like RoFo did.
posted by Capt. Renault at 11:51 AM on August 7 [7 favorites]


At a discount liquor store in Nevada I recently purchased Bud Light for $9.99 a 12 pack(buy 2 get 1 free). That comes out to .55 cents a beer and that's not even the cheap stuff.
posted by ShakeyJake at 12:02 PM on August 7


Keep in mind that currently 1.00 USD is about 1.31 CAD.
posted by Chrysostom at 12:08 PM on August 7 [1 favorite]


MADD Canada said cheaper suds are a bad idea

While I can understand their point of view, perhaps they should hold back for a while after this basic income thing and whatever other pro-poverty measures Ford has in mind to kick off his reign, rather than seizing the opportunity to sing the praises of higher taxes on things poor people spend disproportionately large fractions of their income on the buying of, despite nobody so far seriously proposing to lower them.

Perhaps they're saying it pre-emptively, to make sure the government knows it can't get away with somehow trying to deliver on the cheap beer promise a year from now when everyone realizes it's still not 1993 and thus you still can't get a beer for a buck unless that buck was somehow used to win a bet.
posted by sfenders at 12:26 PM on August 7 [1 favorite]


Just got an unsolicited text on my phone. "Hi, it's Ava from the Ontario PC Party. Do you support the PC plan to clean up the mess left by Kathleen Wynne's Gov't? Reply Yes No or STOP to opt-out."

How about I don't reply at all but simply block your bloviating ass?

posted by Capt. Renault at 12:44 PM on August 7 [3 favorites]


and you get what you pay for - a cheap shitty drunk

I think you mean "vote for", but the point is valid.
posted by Jon Mitchell at 12:47 PM on August 7 [7 favorites]


When I brought up MADD, I was daydreaming about them partnering up with another organization, perhaps a women's shelter, to make commercials about the real cost of cheap beer. Maybe talk about how the loss of universal basic income will make it harder for domestic abuse victims to leave, alongside the stats on alcohol abuse. Then I remembered, it's 2018.
posted by peppermind at 1:41 PM on August 7 [5 favorites]


When I read the interviews with the folks who were part of the UBI program and then DoFo does this unsurprising shit...I'm just so mad. It was fucking working!
posted by Kitteh at 2:03 PM on August 7 [2 favorites]


Thanks Ontario liberal strategists who figured Ford would be out in one term and they'd get to be in charge again so start spreading FUD about the NDP . Thanks so much.

This is the thing that has me so wound up. It just cements my already rock-solid belief that the real nihilists in Canadian politics are the Liberal Party, whether federal or provincial. They literally stand for nothing.

Say what you will about the Doug Ford PCs, but at least it's an ethos.

I don't need buck-a-beer because getting blackout angry obviates the need to get blackout drunk.

Thanks, Doug!
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 3:08 PM on August 7 [1 favorite]


Seeing as how buck-a-beer was the PC Party’s only stated policy goal, perhaps once this lofty objective is achieved they can dissolve the government and call a new election.
posted by The Card Cheat at 3:24 PM on August 7 [1 favorite]


Seeing as how buck-a-beer was the PC Party’s only stated policy goal, perhaps once this lofty objective is achieved they can dissolve the government and call a new election.

I guess that's what they meant by "costed platform."

Sigh.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 3:25 PM on August 7


Wait. How did Doug Ford get elected after the multiple travesties that was his brother Rob? Premier of Ontario? WTF!?!?!? I feel like banging my head into a wall.

Rob retired undefeated. If not for cancer he might still be mayor of Toronto today. Doug is way less charismatic (somehow) though, and I think that Ontario actually voted for Rob Ford’s ghost rather than his living brother.
posted by rodlymight at 3:26 PM on August 7 [1 favorite]


This is an important post. DoFo's loathsomeness can't be overstated, nor can the genuine harm he and the other crazies in the OPC party will be doing to many, many people.
posted by Jessica Savitch's Coke Spoon at 3:27 PM on August 7


Where does Doug Ford stand on the crucial issue of smoking crack
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 5:17 PM on August 7


All we need now is to find out that Rob Ford faked his death and is going to run for mayor of Toronto. And then after he wins Doug Ford can give the city a strong mayor system.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 5:22 PM on August 7


Damn. Seems the same as Finland: right wingers get it and make it a top priority to close down a Basic Income trial before the data comes in.

They all know for certain that a Basic Income would make everyone stop working, so it's vitally important not to gather the data this would prove or refute it...
posted by TheophileEscargot at 9:18 PM on August 7 [2 favorites]



As a Red Cap man, I hope that Brick Brewery refuses to participate. Continuing to buy my staple beer made cheaper would be a vindication of DoFo, but having to switch brands because of that would really be Teh Suck. Come on, Brick -- do the right thing, and eliminate my moral dilemma for me!

Brick Brewery produces Laker, who literally ran an ad campaign about being a buck a beer. It would be strange if they didn't do so again.
posted by Harpocrates at 5:50 AM on August 8


A friend shared this article this morning: Ontario's "welfare diet" in 2018. It takes a fresh look at the shitty welfare "shopping list" that the Harris government proposed back in 1995. The cost of that (entirely insufficient) diet has exceeded inflation by 65%, and has increased at double the rate of social assistance payments. Ford, of course, is cancelling a planned (entirely insufficient) 3% increase to those payments.
posted by sevenyearlurk at 7:56 AM on August 8 [2 favorites]


I recommend setting up a continuous game of Fizzball right outside the dimwit's office. Or perhaps inside it.
posted by flabdablet at 10:28 AM on August 8


Where does Doug Ford stand on the crucial issue of smoking crack

Not that they're remotely equivalent in terms of harm potential, but Doug was a hash dealer in high school:

This investigative report reveals that:

- Doug Ford, Toronto Mayor Rob Ford’s brother, sold hashish for several years in the 1980s.

- Another brother, Randy, was also involved in the drug trade and was once charged in relation to a drug-related kidnapping.

- Their sister, Kathy, has been the victim of drug-related gun violence.


This is the basis for the now-very-relevant again 80s Doug Ford Twitter feed.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 12:50 PM on August 8 [1 favorite]


Buck a beer was born in Hamilton, but local brewers want none of it this time around:

Collective Arts is operating out of a space that was unlikely to house a brewery ever again. Labatt did everything in its power make the former Lakeport site useless to potential competitors after it took over, including filling the building's drains with cement, and selling all the equipment for scrap so it couldn't be reused.

Former Lakeport CEO Teresa Cascioli hasn't been in the beer business since selling Lakeport, but she told CBC News that at the time, the company was able to accommodate its rock bottom costs.

"Obviously, the business fundamentals have to be there," Cascioli said. "Whether it's toothpaste or beer, supply and demand have to go hand in hand, and there has to be profitability for the manufacturer."


To be fair, Lakeport and toothpaste backwash were pretty close in flavour profile.

Here's a bit of cheap beer history for ya:

Cobalt sulphate poisoning from Dow - not the chemical company, the beer company.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 6:25 PM on August 8


Ha ha ha! My fave complaint--this is on the local Kingston subreddit, mind you--is that "well duh, indie brewers are against it, they are all left-leaning."

Listen, dipshit, there is a reason DoFo went to Barley Days Brewery and not a Molson-Coors facility. He's like your shitty drugged up uncle trying to be hip. He is deliberately trying to target our 260+ breweries here in Ontario that make local beers.
posted by Kitteh at 10:32 AM on August 9


I was talking about this with a friend last night; if the objective is to boost Molson/Coors/Labatts at the expense of the smaller craft breweries, well...how much overlap in their market base is there? I mean, the people who are going to get excited about Laker or Wildcat being a buck each almost certainly aren't buying craft beer at $3/can anyway, and the price for the good beers would have to get up to like, I don't know, $20/can before I'd consider buying Blue or Canadian, and even then I'd probably just give up drinking beer and go full-time on bourbon.
posted by The Card Cheat at 10:48 AM on August 9 [2 favorites]


Also, I submitted my article to MeFi projects so hopefully it will make its way over here soon, despite it's obv #ygk bias.
posted by Kitteh at 10:59 AM on August 9


"well duh, indie brewers are against it, they are all left-leaning."

Heh. The small businesspeople are...communists?
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 11:37 AM on August 9 [2 favorites]


Buck a Beer was the topic of today's Ontario Today and it was interesting to hear the callers. No one, regardless of political orientation, seemed to think that there will actually be Buck a Beer, or at least not for any meaningful time period, because it isn't possible to sell beer that cheap and still turn a profit. The current price floor is apparently $1.20 and no one is selling at that price. But like the caller who sounded like the mayor of Ford Nation said, it doesn't matter if we actually get Buck a Beer as long as it helped get DoFo elected.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 11:43 AM on August 9 [1 favorite]


I want to listen to that on the CBC website but I 100% know I will fucking pitch my laptop out a window and I cannot afford to fucking pitch a laptop out a window, despite it being one dude.
posted by Kitteh at 12:02 PM on August 9


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