"If that’s not a pure mess, I don’t know what is."
August 21, 2018 7:56 PM   Subscribe

In the latest trailer for Wreck-It Ralph 2: Ralph Breaks the Internet, Vanellope meets a bunch of other Disney Princesses, including Brave's Merida, who recounts her movie's story almost unintelligibly... to American ears, that is. The image was immediately memefied, with various jokes riffing on what people think Scottish people and the Scots language sound like. Harry Josephine Giles says "The best example of how Scotland is both colonised and colonising is that it's impossible to complain about Americans' poorly-written Scots Merida memes without sounding like a twat.", and then takes the opportunity to "explain" their joke and educate Twitter about Scots.
posted by Etrigan (46 comments total) 34 users marked this as a favorite
 
That @HarryGiles thread is pretty good.
posted by tobascodagama at 8:05 PM on August 21, 2018 [7 favorites]


It's a very meta Disney joke about memes, Scottish culture, and inter-company warfare. Nice.
posted by chainlinkspiral at 8:17 PM on August 21, 2018 [5 favorites]


....I'd kind of like to know how many of the people who came up with these "ha ha those wacky Scots and their wacky slang" memes were saying "dude the way these Scots insulted Trump is AWESOME" a couple years back.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:45 PM on August 21, 2018 [3 favorites]


Well, my personal heritage is a jumble of mostly German, Irish and Scottish, with the Scot part the smallest, a little less than 1/4, so I used to like to say that I AM a fifth of Scotch... which got me handed a lot of drinks I really didn't want until I gave it up.
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:50 PM on August 21, 2018 [3 favorites]


The "Ye ever wanty just wrap yersel up in tin foil nice and cosy and then just fucking get right inty the microwave and blow yersel up tae fuck" first meme text isn't original, it's from a slightly famous tweet by I believe a scottish man, given his other tweets. Some of the others definitely read as fake 'what I think scottish people sound like' though.

As an English person, I'm not in a great position to pontificate on the state of scottish language. I'll just quote Harry Josephine Giles, as that is a great thread.

"tl;dr: Scots Twitter is a postcolonial literature that Americans don't get and just think is cute, and who's to say they're wrong?"
posted by Absolutely No You-Know-What at 8:59 PM on August 21, 2018 [6 favorites]


the meme was fine when it was actual scottish twitter users doing it themselves and not the cretinous ramblings of mediocre americans whose mothers once told them they were very talented and funny, but if there's one thing generic white americans love beyond all other things it's talking like they're anything other than generic white americans.
posted by poffin boffin at 9:02 PM on August 21, 2018 [31 favorites]


Hah, I was just going to mention how much this reminds me of first reading Trainspotting when I was younger, and then it turns out Kelly Macdonald, who plays Diane in the movie, is the voice actress!
posted by gucci mane at 9:13 PM on August 21, 2018 [7 favorites]


I'm thoroughly enjoying all of this, as I was prepped for "Scots Twitter postcolonial literature" by reading Maribou Stork Nightmares by Irvine Welsh in my 400-Lit-Crit class.

(Warning: an excellent book you will be very angry that you read, but you should read it anyway.)
posted by tzikeh at 9:53 PM on August 21, 2018 [6 favorites]


I really appreciate the extent to which contemporary Scots grappled with their role in the British empire. I remember being impressed when I visited the Kelvingrove Museum's permanent exhibit on colonialism.
posted by cendawanita at 10:04 PM on August 21, 2018 [9 favorites]


The best linguistic joke of Scots variety that I have heard is from professional wrestler and Scot Joe Coffey, who responded to a friend’s tweet of “KANYE” with “aye a can”.
posted by Parasite Unseen at 10:05 PM on August 21, 2018 [66 favorites]


Every time I read an Irvine Welsh book, it takes me a good week to stop thinking in Scots.

I don't Twitter, so I hadn't encountered the meme in the wild, but I agree that it should have been a Scottish meme for Scottish people. But heaven forbid there be a meme that is not about US.
posted by Ruki at 10:12 PM on August 21, 2018 [2 favorites]


I have to admit to, once again, being a bit confused as to why Disney escapes the focus of the complaint when they initiated the "joke" about Scots, which was then imitated in, unsurprisingly, even less "clever" fashion by internet users. Giles gives an "actually" about it,

Actually, the original Merida speech is little better, as it's entirely Scots Standard English ("know" again), with one fake archaicism ("auld yin") and one working class marker ("pure").

but leaves the main focus on the imitators, where, of course, most people are going to be even worse at their attempted japes than Disney's writers. Placing the emphasis on the source rather than the imitations would seem to be the more useful effort.

(I'm a bit ambivalent about the argument over special status as it seems like similar one's could also be applied by many subgroups to distance themselves from the dominant culture. It's perfectly reasonable to ask for greater respect for features of one's own identified group as long as the larger relationship of status is recognized. I'm wary of watering down concerns of minority rights by the claims of special status. It's something that seems increasingly common among many white groups as a way to separate their interests from some larger whole and claim some form of potential harm.)
posted by gusottertrout at 11:46 PM on August 21, 2018 [1 favorite]


It's something that seems increasingly common among many white groups

It's worth pointing out that not all speakers of Scots are white.
posted by ambrosen at 12:20 AM on August 22, 2018 [6 favorites]


I’m not completely sure whether the characters in the film were actually meant to be speaking correct Scots or whether it was just that a vaguely Scottish kind of speech was being borrowed/improvised as suitable, in Hollywood’s eyes, for rough barbarians, as it was for the (presumably Nordic) people in ‘How to train your dragon’, or for Shrek.
posted by Segundus at 12:29 AM on August 22, 2018 [1 favorite]


Segundus- my head cannon is that How to Train your Dragon takes place in Orkney, thus explaining the vikings with Scottish accents. :)

(My family tree goes back to Orkney)
posted by freethefeet at 12:51 AM on August 22, 2018 [5 favorites]


Wow, just read that Harry Josephine Giles Twitter thread and it is fascinating. Thank you for posting this.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 12:54 AM on August 22, 2018 [3 favorites]


Segundus, I'm not Scottish but have lived here for 20 years and the voice acting in Brave is definitely Scottish, not a dumbing down.

The weird thing about how to train your dragon is the adults all have Scottish accents but the kids have generic American ones. This leads to speculation in our household that it is somehow part of puberty to start sounding Scottish.

Also, Limmy is a vicious comic genius.
posted by hfnuala at 1:24 AM on August 22, 2018 [16 favorites]


it me.
Words and Phrases I Have Been Requested to Say by Americans purely for Their Lordly Amusement
(an incomplete list by scruss, a Scottish person)
  1. squirrel
  2. cookbook
  3. cow town
  4. it's a braw bricht moon licht nicht the nicht
posted by scruss at 1:45 AM on August 22, 2018 [36 favorites]


It's worth pointing out that not all speakers of Scots are white.

True, and I should have added a "predominantly" to my statement as that is often the case with other the other groups I was thinking of as well. But that only makes the point more fraught for me since basing a claim of group minority status on there being some members of that group who also carry an additional minority status doesn't make the larger group's identity therefore equal to that member's. Not all billionaires are white, but that doesn't mean that they can claim billionaires as a group deserve special consideration. Or in language terms, many groups are represented in stereotypical ways in US media due to their speech patterns and perceived lifestyles. Southerners, "Hillbillies", Australians, the Irish, Texans, heck, Minnesotans, that's crappy lazy writing like most that relies on cliches and stereotypes, and I'd have no problem with complaints about that or the ignorance that perpetuates those cliches.

I get a bit twitchy, however, when I see white guys start talking about punching down, appropriation, and "coded as white", making use of ideas central to understanding systemic oppression and response to it to talk about their feelings of being misrepresented. Many, if not most, of us can find some group we are or might be associated with that is poorly represented in media or does face some level of discrimination at times compared to some more ideal other. Age, weight, income, religious affiliation, national heritage, accent, chosen activities all are being added to race, gender, and sexual identity as claims for why "my" group deserves special status. People are using the language and ideas taken from discourse on civil rights to make themselves seem deserving of greater accommodation while distancing themselves from the larger dominant group responsible for oppression.

It isn't that there is no valid complaints to be made about shitty representation and possibly treatment for most groups of diverse enough lives and interests, but that there needs to be some caution about how one makes those claims when one is also a member of a larger group responsible for oppressing others. I don't have some magic formula on where that dividing line is or when claims reach the level of more serious complaint, which is why I'm ambivalent about this one. But I do think the tendency to set one's own group aside using language developed to talk about deeper seated oppression is growing and troubling in that growth for moving the focus from where its most needed to one's own immediate concerns, which is where so many problems stem from.
posted by gusottertrout at 1:47 AM on August 22, 2018 [4 favorites]


Or in language terms, many groups are represented in stereotypical ways in US media

And people in Scotland have the absolute right to say "that's not us", and the fact that some white Americans get all precious about a confected Scottish identity in order to bolster their white identity shouldn't affect a conversation that's taking place in Scotland.
posted by ambrosen at 1:54 AM on August 22, 2018 [15 favorites]


I’m not completely sure whether the characters in the film were actually meant to be speaking correct Scots

Yup, even Young MacGuffin.
posted by scruss at 2:01 AM on August 22, 2018


And people in Scotland have the absolute right to say "that's not us"

I agree. They absolutely do, I'm just saying the way that is done when talking about Americans, I wouldn't have entered the conversation at all if this was just about the UK, should perhaps take more care about how that idea is expressed and focus it on those with the most influence here, which is Disney. But I don't have any disagreement with the general gripe about being misrepresented at all.
posted by gusottertrout at 2:05 AM on August 22, 2018


It's not altogether unrelated to the thread about that movie set in Singapore - the prevailing notion that the rest of the world exists as a context for people in the U.S. to locate themselves in, either as visitors or by using them as heritage. What makes it a problem is that these representations that are designed as a flattering reflection for a U.S. audience are then disseminated to the rest of the world (including the culture that has been taken from), so that the dominant picture that the world has of these cultures is essentially one that centres the perceptions and identity of the U.S. audience.

I call it Brigadoonery. I mean, it could be called Braveheart Syndrome, but I think Brigadoonery is a nicer word.
posted by Grangousier at 2:11 AM on August 22, 2018 [21 favorites]


Scottish Twitter is one thing I miss about being on Twitter. I can't get myself to look for these Merida memes done by Americans because I think the cringe will permanently attach my shoulders to my ears.

Years ago, my husband and I attended a high school friend's wedding reception in America. He wore his kilt because that's what he wears to weddings. It was the first time he met a few of my high school friends. One of my them, who is in most regards lovely, charming, and relatively schooled, said "Oh you grew up in Scotland?? Wow your English is so good!"

Credit to the rest of my friends they all laughed in her face and she was pretty embarrassed. Upon reflection, the whole exchange was pretty weird and ironic as my husband is white and all my friends were asian, so for him to get the "wow you speak English so well" backhand compliment is pretty funny.
posted by like_neon at 2:14 AM on August 22, 2018 [8 favorites]


Are we sharing our favourite genuine Scottish Twitter applications of the meme? Because this one had my husband and I both almost cry laughing.
posted by like_neon at 2:23 AM on August 22, 2018 [6 favorites]


my head cannon is that How to Train your Dragon takes place in Orkney, thus explaining the vikings with Scottish accents. :)

Good idea, though to be really annoyingly picky, I don’t think Scots started to supplant the local version of Norse in Orkney till after the Viking era. Fascinating place, btw; the scenery and wildlife are amazing and the archaeology is completely mind blowing.
posted by Segundus at 3:45 AM on August 22, 2018 [1 favorite]


It isn't that there is no valid complaints to be made about shitty representation and possibly treatment for most groups of diverse enough lives and interests, but that there needs to be some caution about how one makes those claims when one is also a member of a larger group responsible for oppressing others.

I think the Twitter thread addressed this:

This double-bind is not unique to Scots, but very common to European minority languages: subject to internal colonisation through the imperial construction of the European nation state, then participatingand benefiting from global empire
posted by Think_Long at 5:14 AM on August 22, 2018 [6 favorites]


ELEVEN!!
posted by briank at 5:30 AM on August 22, 2018 [12 favorites]


This reminds me of some convos I've had about Quebec French. Great Twitter thread
posted by ServSci at 5:43 AM on August 22, 2018


On one of the BBC podcasts I listen to, there was an episode about Scots. It was interesting but what stuck with me was that before they ended corporal punishment in schools entirely, the general policy was to try and beat Scots out of children. Up until the 70s, and after that the same attitude more or less prevailed but without the beatings.
posted by BungaDunga at 6:03 AM on August 22, 2018 [2 favorites]


On one of the BBC podcasts I listen to, there was an episode about Scots.

The podcast in question, I believe.
posted by sonascope at 6:18 AM on August 22, 2018


For the best pure Scottish patter in all its nsfw sweary glory I recommend @scottish_tweets
posted by fearfulsymmetry at 6:28 AM on August 22, 2018 [2 favorites]


I'm Scottish and also uncomfortable with this meme, which is essentially 'Hahaha, don't Scots speak funny and sound unintelligible'. I mean that is THE joke - Merida is impossible to understand. Moreover, it's definitely not a new joke. For example, Brits of a certain age will remember the inexplicable popularity of the 'CU Jimmy' character (link for those blissfully unaware, skip to 0.31): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_Cg7bS7XXI

Within the UK, speaking Scots, or even speaking standard English with a Scots accent, is absolutely a class marker, as noted in the Twitter thread. And like many other 'regional accents', it often makes us the butt of jokes. In addition to most of us having to grimace our way through (usually English) acquaintances having a 'go' at the accent, we routinely receive feedback from non-Scottish English speakers about how (un)intelligible our personal accents are. We are also schooled to speak and write 'properly' (i.e. Standard English) instead of using 'slang' (i.e. Scots), and have the pleasure of routinely seeing Scottish accents on TV as shorthand for 'crazed/ violent/ alcoholic character'. It all wears a bit thin. Sorry.
posted by genuinely curious at 6:51 AM on August 22, 2018 [19 favorites]


The class dynamic in that Twitter thread was fascinating. Thank you for sharing this, Etrigan.

I'm reminded of how Cajun was coded "poor, bad white (kinda) people" in Louisiana for a very long time. French being outlawed both by governments and custom. Back in the 1990s some of my students reported being told by their grandparents not to study French, because it would make them look bad.

Also reminded me that bit in Neal Stephenson's historical novel sequence, where a Scotsman revenges himself on Englishmen who mock his speech etc.
posted by doctornemo at 7:04 AM on August 22, 2018 [3 favorites]


Needs an “intersectionality” tag.
posted by acb at 7:16 AM on August 22, 2018 [3 favorites]


The podcast in question, I believe.

That's the one. And of course, not a Beebcast. 80% of my pod intake is, so.
posted by BungaDunga at 7:17 AM on August 22, 2018


Yup, even Young MacGuffin.

Aye, I'd like to see an extension of the Giles thread to cover Brave's use of Doric for the same punchline as this trailer. That's not a dialect that's really colonised anywhere to my knowledge.
posted by rhamphorhynchus at 7:20 AM on August 22, 2018


Not to imply that Aberdonians didn't take part in the Empire, of course, just that Doric specifically hasn't spread in the way that the larger Scots dialects have.
posted by rhamphorhynchus at 7:28 AM on August 22, 2018


Galaxy brain: the Merida meme and the Downfall meme are the same meme
posted by GuyZero at 7:33 AM on August 22, 2018 [2 favorites]


(Warning: an excellent book you will be very angry that you read, but you should read it anyway.)

I fucking _loved_ that book when I read it in high school. Have not revisited it since
posted by Maaik at 7:52 AM on August 22, 2018 [1 favorite]


we routinely receive feedback from non-Scottish English speakers about how (un)intelligible our personal accents are.

I was preparing myself for this you know, because that's what English pop culture told me in the colonies. And sure, when you guys get into your patter it's a challenge but that's another dialect, duh of course I just need to learn new vocab (as if I didn't need to learn new vocab when watching Friends or The Nanny). But the accent(s) are perfectly fine! Let's blame it on monolinguals not knowing any better.
posted by cendawanita at 8:06 AM on August 22, 2018 [3 favorites]


This reminds me of some convos I've had about Quebec French.

Also pertinent in the Canadian context: the Atlantic Canada anglo experience, as both colonized and colonizer, for example, in the Trailer Park Boys. It's very much the animating force of Letterkenny too, especially stark there, given the inclusion of First Nations communities.

Newfoundlanders have born the brunt for more than a century, and even there have internal linguistic and class divisions, English & Irish, between the city dwellers and the outport/Labradoreans respectively.
posted by bonehead at 1:33 PM on August 22, 2018 [1 favorite]


the meme was fine when it was actual scottish twitter users doing it themselves...

The crappy faux-Scottish permutations of this meme remind me a bit of the rapid decline in the quality of lolcats, bredlik poems and similar memes. Some people just seem to have have a tin ear, and don't get that while it can be hilarious* to use a strategic misspelling or a regional slang term here and there, writing everything in some kind of weird mutant baby talk that you made up doesn't make it funny, and making it longer doesn't make it any funnier.

* Actual level of hilarity is in the eye of the beholder.
posted by confluency at 5:39 PM on August 22, 2018 [2 favorites]




I think this joke is in poor taste, because it's 2018 and wow it's really not a good precedence to show this to children that this is a good joke. It's not even a remotely funny or intelligent joke. Sigh.
posted by yueliang at 8:22 PM on August 22, 2018


noooo I can't believe I used the wrong canon I'm an English teacher. Also I realised I taught a kid how to spell racist wrong (extra s: rascist). Maybe I'm tired.
posted by freethefeet at 11:34 PM on August 30, 2018 [1 favorite]


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