Wherever you go...
August 31, 2018 11:34 AM Subscribe
Two takes on why and how it feels like we all end up at the same coffee shop wherever we go. The first, the danger of planning a trip online where we see what the numbers lead us to:
The Algorithmic Trap.
On the same side of the coin, the proliferation of the places that all feel the same anyway:
The Unbearable Sameness of Cities
What does this person think the word “algorithm” means? Every time I came up with a hypothesis in the course of reading this, he then used it in a way which violated my hypothesis. Which made my brain explode, algorithmically.
posted by XMLicious at 11:55 AM on August 31, 2018 [9 favorites]
posted by XMLicious at 11:55 AM on August 31, 2018 [9 favorites]
The unbearable ignorance of a NYMag writer
posted by blue t-shirt at 11:57 AM on August 31, 2018 [10 favorites]
posted by blue t-shirt at 11:57 AM on August 31, 2018 [10 favorites]
Exactly. It seems the author sought out exactly what he thought would give him optimum rage for his thinkpiece. It's not that hard to avoid these places. I'm avoiding them right now and the sushi is still fine.
posted by vverse23 at 11:58 AM on August 31, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by vverse23 at 11:58 AM on August 31, 2018 [2 favorites]
The brunch place that plies you with the same mimosas and pickle-tinged Bloody Marys, with the same menu of dressed-up, oversauced leftovers of every brunch place. Eggs-whatever. Bourbon bacon. Avocado everywhere.
Why is this a problem?
posted by Lutoslawski at 11:58 AM on August 31, 2018 [14 favorites]
Why is this a problem?
posted by Lutoslawski at 11:58 AM on August 31, 2018 [14 favorites]
"I think going to Beijing and seeing the Summer Palace, and then going to Tokyo and seeing some shrine and whatever, is basically useless because you don’t really get more than you would get by going to Wikipedia.
This is completely wrong, overwhelmingly and shockingly wrong. I'm sorry that this person, quoted approvingly in the first essay, was not able to get anything out of their travel to the Summer Palace more significant than reading the Wikipedia article, but that isn't the fault of the Summer Palace.
It is true that I have not been to the Summer Palace in more than twenty years, but the day I went was one of the most memorable days of my life. I was there on a sunny day in the dead of winter (I'd previously visited the Old Summer Palace site, where it was so still that I could hear the ice cracking across the lake) and the experience of climbing up one side of the mountain among pavilions and gardens, hearing the wind bells chime at the top and then seeing the frozen lake and the descending steps and corridors was completely overwhelming and astonishing.
Seeing how the place had been built, how it was maintained, how it was run; walking across the frozen lake to the stone boat among Beijing people sliding on the ice; seeing the blue mountains around Beijing, those things were all worth it, bright memories that I wouldn't trade....and the way it boosted my material understanding of Beijing history, what it meant that rickshaw runners had carried people at top speed from the Forbidden City area to the Summer Palace, working themselves to death in the heat and the cold; what the use of space, shape and color said about the imperial regime....those are things you don't get from a computer screen, even if you can recite all the facts.
The other thing about "travel to interact with people because that's all, like, authentic and shit"....I am a resident of a metropolis! As a broad generality, I don't want to "interact" with random tourists. Sure, up to a point you're all welcome in my favorite spots, but we're not buddies. When I travel I don't expect heaps of emotional labor from locals to create an "authentic" experience - I just want some snacks, a visit to the museum in the off hours and maybe a rental bike.
posted by Frowner at 12:03 PM on August 31, 2018 [92 favorites]
This is completely wrong, overwhelmingly and shockingly wrong. I'm sorry that this person, quoted approvingly in the first essay, was not able to get anything out of their travel to the Summer Palace more significant than reading the Wikipedia article, but that isn't the fault of the Summer Palace.
It is true that I have not been to the Summer Palace in more than twenty years, but the day I went was one of the most memorable days of my life. I was there on a sunny day in the dead of winter (I'd previously visited the Old Summer Palace site, where it was so still that I could hear the ice cracking across the lake) and the experience of climbing up one side of the mountain among pavilions and gardens, hearing the wind bells chime at the top and then seeing the frozen lake and the descending steps and corridors was completely overwhelming and astonishing.
Seeing how the place had been built, how it was maintained, how it was run; walking across the frozen lake to the stone boat among Beijing people sliding on the ice; seeing the blue mountains around Beijing, those things were all worth it, bright memories that I wouldn't trade....and the way it boosted my material understanding of Beijing history, what it meant that rickshaw runners had carried people at top speed from the Forbidden City area to the Summer Palace, working themselves to death in the heat and the cold; what the use of space, shape and color said about the imperial regime....those are things you don't get from a computer screen, even if you can recite all the facts.
The other thing about "travel to interact with people because that's all, like, authentic and shit"....I am a resident of a metropolis! As a broad generality, I don't want to "interact" with random tourists. Sure, up to a point you're all welcome in my favorite spots, but we're not buddies. When I travel I don't expect heaps of emotional labor from locals to create an "authentic" experience - I just want some snacks, a visit to the museum in the off hours and maybe a rental bike.
posted by Frowner at 12:03 PM on August 31, 2018 [92 favorites]
There are exceptions. A place like Edna’s in Oklahoma City will feel like a breath of fresh air after all the sameness. Convivial bartenders, dollar bills wallpapered over the ceilings and walls...
For a travel writer, this person doesn't seem to get out much... wait'll s/he wanders into a bar with car license plates from every goshdarn state on the walls. Mind=obliterated.
posted by logicpunk at 12:10 PM on August 31, 2018 [26 favorites]
For a travel writer, this person doesn't seem to get out much... wait'll s/he wanders into a bar with car license plates from every goshdarn state on the walls. Mind=obliterated.
posted by logicpunk at 12:10 PM on August 31, 2018 [26 favorites]
I think this is actually a problem, when algorithms and guidebooks promise you the 'best' thing, and you don't experience what it's like to actually travel places.
I've been travelling internationally for about twenty years. When I first started, there was no Yelp. You could check major hotel's star status and see roughly how good they were, you could pick up a guidebook that would lead you to some extra cool things, but most of the time you just wandered into places and had a hilariously good time about it. I have had hilariously terrible food, I have had amazing experiences and adventures.
These days, when I travel with someone, wherever we are going, the other person wants to check Yelp, or Google reviews, to see how good the food is at the place we're about to enter. The stars determine the travel, even if it's an obscure restaurant in an obscure port town. If the stars are too low, people simply don't enter. And...sure the food is perfectly...fine, I guess...in the well reviewed places. Sometimes it's even good. But it's always safe, the experience is always safe, and you're only stepping into the places you know will be fine ahead of time.
I went to a country recently that had hideously expensive data, so everyone sealed up their phones in a blocking bag and just kind of...wandered. And it was amazing again. It was everything I remembered about travel being so wonderful. Some places were amazing and some places were terrible and it was a delightful adventure of finding out which were which. I couldn't check a Yelp review - I just had to walk in and experience things.
And I do think, after all that, that we are losing something important by demanding a curated world dictated by algorithms about what we will like, about things that are already safe for us.
posted by corb at 12:24 PM on August 31, 2018 [33 favorites]
I've been travelling internationally for about twenty years. When I first started, there was no Yelp. You could check major hotel's star status and see roughly how good they were, you could pick up a guidebook that would lead you to some extra cool things, but most of the time you just wandered into places and had a hilariously good time about it. I have had hilariously terrible food, I have had amazing experiences and adventures.
These days, when I travel with someone, wherever we are going, the other person wants to check Yelp, or Google reviews, to see how good the food is at the place we're about to enter. The stars determine the travel, even if it's an obscure restaurant in an obscure port town. If the stars are too low, people simply don't enter. And...sure the food is perfectly...fine, I guess...in the well reviewed places. Sometimes it's even good. But it's always safe, the experience is always safe, and you're only stepping into the places you know will be fine ahead of time.
I went to a country recently that had hideously expensive data, so everyone sealed up their phones in a blocking bag and just kind of...wandered. And it was amazing again. It was everything I remembered about travel being so wonderful. Some places were amazing and some places were terrible and it was a delightful adventure of finding out which were which. I couldn't check a Yelp review - I just had to walk in and experience things.
And I do think, after all that, that we are losing something important by demanding a curated world dictated by algorithms about what we will like, about things that are already safe for us.
posted by corb at 12:24 PM on August 31, 2018 [33 favorites]
I do agree that the Yelp thing has really made travel less interesting. My philosophy has always been that if you want to know where to eat or drink you should just ask some people there.
posted by Lutoslawski at 12:32 PM on August 31, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by Lutoslawski at 12:32 PM on August 31, 2018 [3 favorites]
It is really striking how much this particular Brooklyn aesthetic has spread across the country. With the identical independent coffeeshops, in particular, it's very good coffee! But it's as if they're all franchises of a nonexistent parent corporation, down to consistent decor, branding, and menu items.
Which makes me wonder, maybe there really is in practice a kind of parent corporation or franchiser? Like if there's a particular group of investors or a private equity firm that is funding these places and has a playbook.
Or there might be some other explanation. It would be interesting to know from the business owners' perspective, how they came to converge on the same design aesthetic as hundreds of independent businesses. Did they have it in mind going in? Did presenting a particular image help them get financing? Is there some kind of a consultant who will create a menu and buy all the decor for you? Or perhaps anyone starting one of these coffeeshops starts off by working at another one, and just brings the same sensibility and way of doing things.
With similar phenomena, like all the "expensive hamburger" Shake Shack imitators popping up, it's definitely driven by the money people chasing a trend.
posted by vogon_poet at 12:33 PM on August 31, 2018 [4 favorites]
Which makes me wonder, maybe there really is in practice a kind of parent corporation or franchiser? Like if there's a particular group of investors or a private equity firm that is funding these places and has a playbook.
Or there might be some other explanation. It would be interesting to know from the business owners' perspective, how they came to converge on the same design aesthetic as hundreds of independent businesses. Did they have it in mind going in? Did presenting a particular image help them get financing? Is there some kind of a consultant who will create a menu and buy all the decor for you? Or perhaps anyone starting one of these coffeeshops starts off by working at another one, and just brings the same sensibility and way of doing things.
With similar phenomena, like all the "expensive hamburger" Shake Shack imitators popping up, it's definitely driven by the money people chasing a trend.
posted by vogon_poet at 12:33 PM on August 31, 2018 [4 favorites]
This may be a little tinfoil-hattish, but I'm fairly convinced there are big money interests making a coordinated effort to reproduce the Williamsburg gentrification cycle in smaller cities across the country. As such it would make sense to replicate the aesthetics.
posted by grumpybear69 at 12:36 PM on August 31, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by grumpybear69 at 12:36 PM on August 31, 2018 [3 favorites]
Ultimately, my philosophy of travel boils down to this: When possible, avoid algorithms.
I can't imagine saying to myself "I want to go on a trip to a place but have no idea what I want to do there. I'll ask a cloud computing farm to tell me what to do!" Why would I travel to a place where I don't have a goal or destination in mind? Who does that?
I mean, I'm not generally a fan of Rick Steves, but he's been saying for literally DECADES to get away from the beaten path and consult the locals about what to do. This author is only just now discovering this? *shakes head and sighs*
posted by hippybear at 12:38 PM on August 31, 2018 [3 favorites]
I can't imagine saying to myself "I want to go on a trip to a place but have no idea what I want to do there. I'll ask a cloud computing farm to tell me what to do!" Why would I travel to a place where I don't have a goal or destination in mind? Who does that?
I mean, I'm not generally a fan of Rick Steves, but he's been saying for literally DECADES to get away from the beaten path and consult the locals about what to do. This author is only just now discovering this? *shakes head and sighs*
posted by hippybear at 12:38 PM on August 31, 2018 [3 favorites]
This may be a little tinfoil-hattish, but I'm fairly convinced there are big money interests making a coordinated effort to reproduce the Williamsburg gentrification cycle in smaller cities across the country. As such it would make sense to replicate the aesthetics
Somewhere I have a picture of the Benetton I saw in old-town Colonia, Uruguay. In the late 90s.
posted by rhizome at 12:43 PM on August 31, 2018 [2 favorites]
Somewhere I have a picture of the Benetton I saw in old-town Colonia, Uruguay. In the late 90s.
posted by rhizome at 12:43 PM on August 31, 2018 [2 favorites]
So a lot of these places are terrible but they're what a lot of people want. Things aren't built for the traveler, so the Brooklyn aesthetic isn't played out to the people who actually live in Omaha or wherever. To them it's modern and new and comfortable. Most people tend not to travel frequently, especially not professionally.
The old authentic places still exist but you have to seek them out and sometimes you might not like what you find.
When people stop spending money at them, they'll dry up and move on to something else, but until then it's a working business model and for every one of these places that exists it's another place that isn't a Starbucks or a TGIFridays sucking money out of the local community.
See also the generic Irish pub and the Thai restaurants sponsored by Thailand's tourism department. Often very samey but more local than a lot of alternatives. Not everything has to be the most authentic thing ever, things can sometimes just be comfortable.
posted by mikesch at 12:46 PM on August 31, 2018 [11 favorites]
The old authentic places still exist but you have to seek them out and sometimes you might not like what you find.
When people stop spending money at them, they'll dry up and move on to something else, but until then it's a working business model and for every one of these places that exists it's another place that isn't a Starbucks or a TGIFridays sucking money out of the local community.
See also the generic Irish pub and the Thai restaurants sponsored by Thailand's tourism department. Often very samey but more local than a lot of alternatives. Not everything has to be the most authentic thing ever, things can sometimes just be comfortable.
posted by mikesch at 12:46 PM on August 31, 2018 [11 favorites]
Ultimately, my philosophy of travel boils down to this: When possible, avoid algorithms.
Stuff White People Like: travelling, going new places.....but not being a tourist. No no no! Never. Wherever they go, they participate authentically, at all times, in the culture and identity of the people who live there and have lived there for generations!
This explains a lot of Anthony Bourdain's popularity, I'm afraid: people want to see themselves as beng just like him.
posted by thelonius at 12:52 PM on August 31, 2018 [30 favorites]
Stuff White People Like: travelling, going new places.....but not being a tourist. No no no! Never. Wherever they go, they participate authentically, at all times, in the culture and identity of the people who live there and have lived there for generations!
This explains a lot of Anthony Bourdain's popularity, I'm afraid: people want to see themselves as beng just like him.
posted by thelonius at 12:52 PM on August 31, 2018 [30 favorites]
Young hip kids dressing and acting like young hip kids and working at places run by other not quite so young hip kids. Not the biggest surprise I've ever had. If it is a conspiracy, they've been at it for a while with no apparent goal other than to occupy coffee houses.
posted by doctor_negative at 12:52 PM on August 31, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by doctor_negative at 12:52 PM on August 31, 2018 [2 favorites]
Which makes me wonder, maybe there really is in practice a kind of parent corporation or franchiser? Like if there's a particular group of investors or a private equity firm that is funding these places and has a playbook.
I think at least one factor is the investment required to open a coffee shop / restaurant / artisinal meadery in a major city, and the disproportionate amount of press the ones that make it there get due to their proximity to media, "influencers", etc. You now often need serious investors, and to get them have to demonstrate that you're following a reliable path to profitability. Profitable ones provide examples for those investors to point to and say, "do something like that".
I'm in DC, and there has been a direct relationship between skyrocketing real estate costs and the kind of retail / dining homogeneity - and the aping of the international "Brooklyn aesthetic" - that the author is calling out. There have always been trends and trendiness here, but cheap real estate made it a lot easier to buck or ignore those. That isn't happening much anymore.
A secondary factor, possibly, is that the aesthetic we're talking about - waxed concrete floors, exposed ductwork, reclaimed wood, succulents - is often cheap and quick to build compared with the high-design restaurant interiors of generations past. High rent costs push owners to find appealing ways to cut corners.
posted by ryanshepard at 12:54 PM on August 31, 2018 [10 favorites]
I think at least one factor is the investment required to open a coffee shop / restaurant / artisinal meadery in a major city, and the disproportionate amount of press the ones that make it there get due to their proximity to media, "influencers", etc. You now often need serious investors, and to get them have to demonstrate that you're following a reliable path to profitability. Profitable ones provide examples for those investors to point to and say, "do something like that".
I'm in DC, and there has been a direct relationship between skyrocketing real estate costs and the kind of retail / dining homogeneity - and the aping of the international "Brooklyn aesthetic" - that the author is calling out. There have always been trends and trendiness here, but cheap real estate made it a lot easier to buck or ignore those. That isn't happening much anymore.
A secondary factor, possibly, is that the aesthetic we're talking about - waxed concrete floors, exposed ductwork, reclaimed wood, succulents - is often cheap and quick to build compared with the high-design restaurant interiors of generations past. High rent costs push owners to find appealing ways to cut corners.
posted by ryanshepard at 12:54 PM on August 31, 2018 [10 favorites]
Apparently in the case of Irish pubs, there is literally the Irish Pub Company, which will build a pub, including interior design, and do logos and branding, and design a menu, and everything else. Which explains why there are so many fairly similar Irish pubs across the country!
posted by vogon_poet at 12:58 PM on August 31, 2018 [11 favorites]
posted by vogon_poet at 12:58 PM on August 31, 2018 [11 favorites]
This may be a little tinfoil-hattish, but I'm fairly convinced there are big money interests making a coordinated effort to reproduce the Williamsburg gentrification cycle in smaller cities across the country. As such it would make sense to replicate the aesthetics.
My only slightly informed impression of the bar/coffee/restaurant financing world is that it's less big money corporations and more the merely rich buying themselves some cool points at the expense of decent returns. Basically people making a small fortune in the restaurant business by starting with a large one. I'm thinking of this and also my limited knowledge of people around here that finance such places.
posted by ghharr at 1:01 PM on August 31, 2018
My only slightly informed impression of the bar/coffee/restaurant financing world is that it's less big money corporations and more the merely rich buying themselves some cool points at the expense of decent returns. Basically people making a small fortune in the restaurant business by starting with a large one. I'm thinking of this and also my limited knowledge of people around here that finance such places.
posted by ghharr at 1:01 PM on August 31, 2018
Apparently in the case of Irish pubs, there is literally the Irish Pub Company, which will build a pub, including interior design, and do logos and branding, and design a menu, and everything else. Which explains why there are so many fairly similar Irish pubs across the country!
Also, Thai restaurants.
posted by BungaDunga at 1:14 PM on August 31, 2018 [2 favorites]
Also, Thai restaurants.
posted by BungaDunga at 1:14 PM on August 31, 2018 [2 favorites]
Stuff White People Like: travelling, going new places.....but not being a tourist. No no no! Never.
Also never an immigrant.
posted by ODiV at 1:14 PM on August 31, 2018 [10 favorites]
Also never an immigrant.
posted by ODiV at 1:14 PM on August 31, 2018 [10 favorites]
I don't know about this guy, but when I go to a coffee shop in a city I'm visiting, it's to rest my feet AFTER visiting whatever it was that lured me there.
That it's tasty coffee prepared along with a nice sandwich and served by a tattooed barista, well, that's just gravy.
posted by ocschwar at 1:14 PM on August 31, 2018 [6 favorites]
That it's tasty coffee prepared along with a nice sandwich and served by a tattooed barista, well, that's just gravy.
posted by ocschwar at 1:14 PM on August 31, 2018 [6 favorites]
I can kind of see the problem as I'm visiting SF in a couple of weeks with family and elderly in our group, and I'm drawing a blank as to where to spend the day that wouldn't be a lot of walking/travel, not too crowded, and would make it a worthwhile visit for them. They've all been to the big tourist attractions before, so should we repeat the same places? SF as a city seems to be the embodiment of this capitalist-algorithmic model, should I just give in and spend the day shopping at Union Square?
posted by polymodus at 1:46 PM on August 31, 2018
posted by polymodus at 1:46 PM on August 31, 2018
Any events happening in parks or whatever the weekend you're there? A bit of research might give you A Thing To Do which isn't a repeat but is instead a Just That Weekend thing.
posted by hippybear at 1:52 PM on August 31, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by hippybear at 1:52 PM on August 31, 2018 [1 favorite]
The brunch place that plies you with the same mimosas and pickle-tinged Bloody Marys, with the same menu of dressed-up, oversauced leftovers of every brunch place.
literally what were you expecting when you went out to brunch tho
"dressed-up oversauced leftovers" is LITERALLY WHAT BRUNCH IS
Profitable ones provide examples for those investors to point to and say, "do something like that".
...
A secondary factor, possibly, is that the aesthetic we're talking about - waxed concrete floors, exposed ductwood, reclaimed wood, succulents - is often cheap and quick to build.
Yep. That and Instagram. Owners and partners will design a new concept around whatever is trending on Instagram, and will 'refresh' an existing concept by chasing whatever has been trending. "Brooklyn" has already moved on from Edison bulbs and dim wood interiors to rose-gold/copper accents, sheepskins, blonde wood, and photo-friendly high lighting. A bartender friend of mine has been in a lighting war with ownership for months; bartender and patrons like things dim, but every time the owner or manager comes in, they crank the lights up in hopes of luring the selfies-with-my-drink crowd. Ripped out the booths, painted the walls white, ruined the aesthetic -- because that's what's been trending.
posted by halation at 1:55 PM on August 31, 2018 [3 favorites]
literally what were you expecting when you went out to brunch tho
"dressed-up oversauced leftovers" is LITERALLY WHAT BRUNCH IS
Profitable ones provide examples for those investors to point to and say, "do something like that".
...
A secondary factor, possibly, is that the aesthetic we're talking about - waxed concrete floors, exposed ductwood, reclaimed wood, succulents - is often cheap and quick to build.
Yep. That and Instagram. Owners and partners will design a new concept around whatever is trending on Instagram, and will 'refresh' an existing concept by chasing whatever has been trending. "Brooklyn" has already moved on from Edison bulbs and dim wood interiors to rose-gold/copper accents, sheepskins, blonde wood, and photo-friendly high lighting. A bartender friend of mine has been in a lighting war with ownership for months; bartender and patrons like things dim, but every time the owner or manager comes in, they crank the lights up in hopes of luring the selfies-with-my-drink crowd. Ripped out the booths, painted the walls white, ruined the aesthetic -- because that's what's been trending.
posted by halation at 1:55 PM on August 31, 2018 [3 favorites]
They've all been to the big tourist attractions before, so should we repeat the same places? SF as a city seems to be the embodiment of this capitalist-algorithmic model, should I just give in and spend the day shopping at Union Square?
Derail, but absolutely not - there are some great suggestions in this 2012 thread, the bulk of which are still BETTER THINGS YOU CAN DO.
Seriously - in spite of everything, San Francisco is still a city full of uniquely beautiful places and experiences that kick the crap out of shopping in Union Square.
posted by ryanshepard at 1:59 PM on August 31, 2018 [1 favorite]
Derail, but absolutely not - there are some great suggestions in this 2012 thread, the bulk of which are still BETTER THINGS YOU CAN DO.
Seriously - in spite of everything, San Francisco is still a city full of uniquely beautiful places and experiences that kick the crap out of shopping in Union Square.
posted by ryanshepard at 1:59 PM on August 31, 2018 [1 favorite]
I recently got back from two weeks abroad, and I can confirm that certain aspects of cities feel more homogenous than they did when I last traveled 11 years ago. I don’t want to travel just for museums, I want to be somewhere different. Sneer at that all you like as “white people want to feel authentic,” but I’d rather hang out somewhere than trek from tourist spot to tourist spot. Doesn’t make me better or not a tourist, but it made saminess apparent for me. The problem may be overstated here, but I can see it.
posted by shapes that haunt the dusk at 2:00 PM on August 31, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by shapes that haunt the dusk at 2:00 PM on August 31, 2018 [4 favorites]
Small tourist attractions, as opposed to big ones, are if anything underrated, in my opinion. I'm talking about things like small house museums with five people at most to a tour, old bookstores that aren't The Strand or Shakespeare and Company, or even large museums that are even slightly off the beaten path. Dig into fifth and sixth pages of those 1000 things to do in [place] lists and you're certain to find some true gems.
Another good thing to do is to be aware of the big tourist attractions but not to deliberately go searching out for them. In Seattle I knew of the famous troll sculpture but didn't think it was worth going out of my way to visit. But when visiting a random coffee shop I noticed that I was right by the Fremont bridge, thought to myself, "hmm... I wonder..." and after a few minutes of undirected walking stumbled upon it. It was a bit like discovering it for myself, even though it's one of Seattle's most well-known landmarks.
And I very much second this other article from NYMag, on how nothing beats visiting a grocery store.
posted by perplexion at 2:07 PM on August 31, 2018 [9 favorites]
Another good thing to do is to be aware of the big tourist attractions but not to deliberately go searching out for them. In Seattle I knew of the famous troll sculpture but didn't think it was worth going out of my way to visit. But when visiting a random coffee shop I noticed that I was right by the Fremont bridge, thought to myself, "hmm... I wonder..." and after a few minutes of undirected walking stumbled upon it. It was a bit like discovering it for myself, even though it's one of Seattle's most well-known landmarks.
And I very much second this other article from NYMag, on how nothing beats visiting a grocery store.
posted by perplexion at 2:07 PM on August 31, 2018 [9 favorites]
And I can confirm that Yelp makes travel shittier.
posted by shapes that haunt the dusk at 2:07 PM on August 31, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by shapes that haunt the dusk at 2:07 PM on August 31, 2018 [2 favorites]
Why would I travel to a place where I don't have a goal or destination in mind? Who does that?
I did that last week. I went to a random semi-rural area I knew little about and did whatever struck my fancy each day. It was great!
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 2:15 PM on August 31, 2018 [4 favorites]
I did that last week. I went to a random semi-rural area I knew little about and did whatever struck my fancy each day. It was great!
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 2:15 PM on August 31, 2018 [4 favorites]
One rule I learned from traveling with a coffee snob friend: you never go to the coffee shop with a coffee-themed pun as its name. If it's called "Mud Hut," "The Grind," "The Beanery," etc - it's going to be bad coffee made by apathetic 20 year olds. Instead you want the coffee shops that are named after completely random shit for the really good coffee.
posted by backlikeclap at 2:16 PM on August 31, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by backlikeclap at 2:16 PM on August 31, 2018 [2 favorites]
I went to a random semi-rural area I knew little about and did whatever struck my fancy each day. It was great!
The article is nearly entirely about going to major destinations and then using some kind of internet service to suggest what tourist thing to do. I think these are apples and oranges.
posted by hippybear at 2:21 PM on August 31, 2018
The article is nearly entirely about going to major destinations and then using some kind of internet service to suggest what tourist thing to do. I think these are apples and oranges.
posted by hippybear at 2:21 PM on August 31, 2018
I mean, I'm not generally a fan of Rick Steves
Oh no! Is he a Milkshake Rickduck and I didn’t know it?
posted by Barack Spinoza at 2:22 PM on August 31, 2018
Oh no! Is he a Milkshake Rickduck and I didn’t know it?
posted by Barack Spinoza at 2:22 PM on August 31, 2018
I have no idea what that means, but generally I think Steves does good work for people who follow immediately in his footsteps after his shows air, but 3-4 years later some of his recommendations become overrun because of his mentions.
posted by hippybear at 2:24 PM on August 31, 2018
posted by hippybear at 2:24 PM on August 31, 2018
Oh phew. (It was a dumb portmanteau. I was just worried that Mr. Steves had done something nefarious — seems like an earnest, kind dude.)
posted by Barack Spinoza at 2:32 PM on August 31, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by Barack Spinoza at 2:32 PM on August 31, 2018 [1 favorite]
The overwhelming financial risk of opening anything in this country encourages this kind of sameless. Difference is a risk, it’s not cost effective. We have the immense freedom to be the same.
Interestingly enough tourists from Europe in the 1880s complained about this in eastern and midwestern areas too, every town was functionally indentical, right down to the billboards everywhere.
posted by The Whelk at 2:36 PM on August 31, 2018 [9 favorites]
Interestingly enough tourists from Europe in the 1880s complained about this in eastern and midwestern areas too, every town was functionally indentical, right down to the billboards everywhere.
posted by The Whelk at 2:36 PM on August 31, 2018 [9 favorites]
Regarding SF recommendations: If you've done the city before, get outside of it. Head to Sonoma and the Alexander Valley and drink wine. Drive up the coast to Marshall and eat BBQ oysters at the Marshall store. Go for a stroll in the Armstrong woods in Guerneville (well maintained paths, no real hills to speak of once you're out of the car). Stinson Beach if you're here when it won't be packed. Healdsburg and Petaluma have lovely downtown areas.
Anyway, to tie this back into the thread, I've always found the best parts of cities are just outside of them. When I lived in NYC I got sad seeing tourists wandering the desolate hellscape of Wall Street on weekends, and I hoped they stayed in Times Square just long enough for a quick photo. Working in SF I see tourists here in the FiDi constantly where it makes no sense.
The first time I visited Portland I hated it because I only had two days and I spent them downtown. Now that I've discovered the various other neighborhoods it's pretty much my favorite city. I have the same feelings about Seattle.
The interesting places anywhere you go are never the obvious ones. It takes a little bit to get your bearings and explore things.
posted by mikesch at 3:02 PM on August 31, 2018
Anyway, to tie this back into the thread, I've always found the best parts of cities are just outside of them. When I lived in NYC I got sad seeing tourists wandering the desolate hellscape of Wall Street on weekends, and I hoped they stayed in Times Square just long enough for a quick photo. Working in SF I see tourists here in the FiDi constantly where it makes no sense.
The first time I visited Portland I hated it because I only had two days and I spent them downtown. Now that I've discovered the various other neighborhoods it's pretty much my favorite city. I have the same feelings about Seattle.
The interesting places anywhere you go are never the obvious ones. It takes a little bit to get your bearings and explore things.
posted by mikesch at 3:02 PM on August 31, 2018
I thought that Helen Rosner had a pretty thoughtful twitter thread regarding the second article.
posted by ch1x0r at 3:04 PM on August 31, 2018
posted by ch1x0r at 3:04 PM on August 31, 2018
They may not be franchises but, like the outer sprawl of malls, big box stores, and chain restaurants, there is a bit of the tyranny of the franchise. The Whelk has it nailed - no risk taking in this arena. Plus, there is a bit of signaling here. The young tattooed author may not feel as comfortable walking into a diner or a cowboy bar in Comfort TX, so she ends up in a coffee bar like she has been in before.
Regarding travel, if you really want to meet the locals and get away from the beaten tourist path, I have always found flea markets a great venue to meet people. Not the well-known ones like Marche aux Puces in Paris or Portobello Road in London, but literally every other town has a similar venue. We just went to one in Dothan AL and met some very interesting musicians, found a great bar, etc, well off the beaten path, but I guess Dothan is too. Nice town, though.
posted by sudogeek at 3:05 PM on August 31, 2018
Regarding travel, if you really want to meet the locals and get away from the beaten tourist path, I have always found flea markets a great venue to meet people. Not the well-known ones like Marche aux Puces in Paris or Portobello Road in London, but literally every other town has a similar venue. We just went to one in Dothan AL and met some very interesting musicians, found a great bar, etc, well off the beaten path, but I guess Dothan is too. Nice town, though.
posted by sudogeek at 3:05 PM on August 31, 2018
I agree with XMLicious about Perrell's use of the word "algorithms." He seems to be referring to some social media plus capitalism plus marketing plus tv plus use behavior. But it's much more trendy to diss the software now.
Also: "Avoiding algorithms doesn’t apply to traveling in beautiful places." No beauty in cities, then?
"Distinct, foreign experiences in cities — which evolve around people —cannot be bought or sold.¹ They can’t be found in guidebooks..." ...except when they can.
I have to stop. On MetaFilter I try not to diss articles that people have taken the time to share, but Perrell's was just awful.
posted by doctornemo at 3:06 PM on August 31, 2018 [4 favorites]
Also: "Avoiding algorithms doesn’t apply to traveling in beautiful places." No beauty in cities, then?
"Distinct, foreign experiences in cities — which evolve around people —cannot be bought or sold.¹ They can’t be found in guidebooks..." ...except when they can.
I have to stop. On MetaFilter I try not to diss articles that people have taken the time to share, but Perrell's was just awful.
posted by doctornemo at 3:06 PM on August 31, 2018 [4 favorites]
RE the second article. 1994 Portland overheard on the street from NY sourced female (words to the effect of): “Wow, look they have Starbucks out here”
posted by Pembquist at 3:14 PM on August 31, 2018
posted by Pembquist at 3:14 PM on August 31, 2018
It is really striking how much this particular Brooklyn aesthetic has spread across the country. With the identical independent coffeeshops, in particular, it's very good coffee! But it's as if they're all franchises of a nonexistent parent corporation, down to consistent decor, branding, and menu items.
I mean, the same thing could be said about any decor of any period. Granted, things might be more homogenous now because aesthetics spread quickly and regionalism is kind of a weak force....but I mean, if you're house hunting you can peg out when the bathroom or kitchen was redone within a 5 year span. Same goes for cafes, regardless of their 'quirk' or 'sameness.' Show me a photo of a cafe and the city it was in, and I could probably tell you what 3 or 4 year span it was taken in. Cafe's in the 90's were just as homogenous, just with gross couches and thrift store hutches.
Ah crap, I can't find it right now, but Brian Jones (of DCILY and AKA coffee) has gone into some pretty heavy discussions around how, especially specialty coffee shops are like this. From what I've gathered from his talks and other industry folks who concern their brains with such things, it's kind of a necessity, because to signal to the public that you have "good coffee that is similar to, but not quite like [larger older coffee company over here]." Specialty coffee is a really immature industry, and hasn't had time to suss all that out yet.
And honestly, for those of who grew up and now have people flocking to our home cities, I'm all for this. Swing on by, stay for a few years, poach all our aesthetic ideas, and take them back to your smaller city or town and go nuts.
posted by furnace.heart at 3:57 PM on August 31, 2018 [5 favorites]
I mean, the same thing could be said about any decor of any period. Granted, things might be more homogenous now because aesthetics spread quickly and regionalism is kind of a weak force....but I mean, if you're house hunting you can peg out when the bathroom or kitchen was redone within a 5 year span. Same goes for cafes, regardless of their 'quirk' or 'sameness.' Show me a photo of a cafe and the city it was in, and I could probably tell you what 3 or 4 year span it was taken in. Cafe's in the 90's were just as homogenous, just with gross couches and thrift store hutches.
Ah crap, I can't find it right now, but Brian Jones (of DCILY and AKA coffee) has gone into some pretty heavy discussions around how, especially specialty coffee shops are like this. From what I've gathered from his talks and other industry folks who concern their brains with such things, it's kind of a necessity, because to signal to the public that you have "good coffee that is similar to, but not quite like [larger older coffee company over here]." Specialty coffee is a really immature industry, and hasn't had time to suss all that out yet.
And honestly, for those of who grew up and now have people flocking to our home cities, I'm all for this. Swing on by, stay for a few years, poach all our aesthetic ideas, and take them back to your smaller city or town and go nuts.
posted by furnace.heart at 3:57 PM on August 31, 2018 [5 favorites]
Tbh, I would kill to have even one of those places here. People in my town are extraordinarily excited because there are rumors we are getting a Chik Fil A.
We do have one tiny bar, but “You don’t go there unless you want to get shot”. People who want to drink in this town go to Chili’s, until it closes at 10pm, and then they go home. (We don’t have any liquor stores, either. Only the supermarkets and the convenience stores sell alcohol. We’ve got a lot of tweakers, though, so our weekend party needs are apparently covered. Not sure what the decor is like where they hang out, though.)
posted by MexicanYenta at 4:04 PM on August 31, 2018 [3 favorites]
We do have one tiny bar, but “You don’t go there unless you want to get shot”. People who want to drink in this town go to Chili’s, until it closes at 10pm, and then they go home. (We don’t have any liquor stores, either. Only the supermarkets and the convenience stores sell alcohol. We’ve got a lot of tweakers, though, so our weekend party needs are apparently covered. Not sure what the decor is like where they hang out, though.)
posted by MexicanYenta at 4:04 PM on August 31, 2018 [3 favorites]
We do have three coffee shops, though, all with watery coffee. The most popular one is decorated with cast-off 80’s furniture in a teal and peach color scheme - and not in an ironic manner. They have a nice view from the patio, though, so it’s where we take out of town guests. *sob*
It’s located on the spot where we used to go “parking” in high school, so for some of us it has some nostalgia going for it.
posted by MexicanYenta at 4:11 PM on August 31, 2018 [1 favorite]
It’s located on the spot where we used to go “parking” in high school, so for some of us it has some nostalgia going for it.
posted by MexicanYenta at 4:11 PM on August 31, 2018 [1 favorite]
That it's tasty coffee prepared along with a nice sandwich and served by a tattooed barista, well, that's just gravy.
See, if you go to local restaurants in the American heartland, then getting tasty gravy is the gravy.
posted by Daily Alice at 4:46 PM on August 31, 2018 [2 favorites]
See, if you go to local restaurants in the American heartland, then getting tasty gravy is the gravy.
posted by Daily Alice at 4:46 PM on August 31, 2018 [2 favorites]
The author of "The Algorithmic Trap" makes no particular sense that I can figure out; maybe it's that we should seek out inconvenience and discomfort because that's the author's definition of adventure. The author of "Unbearable Sameness" is objecting to worldwide fashions being a Thing (and also objecting to Ikea on the principle that . . . what?). The first author should stop seeking "memorable experiences" and pay closer attention to the places where he is, possibly even his own home. I encounter some pretty darn bizarre and occasionally threatening situations on the bus in my own city, come to think of it. Human beings may have tattoos, but that doesn't make them stereotypes. The second author should just wait a while until Brooklynism is no longer a fashionable flavor and something else has taken its place that doesn't elicit the same kind of snobbism from her.
I've been to some odd and inconvenient places in recent years, mostly because they have cheap hotels and large sports facilities where they can hold master's world championships in my sport. Krems, Austria, for instance. Lovely little town with not a whole lot to do. Limoges, France, factory town, dispiritingly mundane. Porec, Croatia, where all the German tourists go, absolutely idyllic. Varna, Bulgaria, a crumbling formerly-Communist resort with lots of stray dogs and graffiti. Stralsund, Germany, which I can't seem to remember much about. My two favorites were Bath, England, which was just a gem of a tourist town, and Moscow, because it was utterly weird and ALSO a great place to be a tourist.
I don't get to do much sightseeing in any of these places, because I'm there to do something, but I can tell you on the whole that I'd rather be in a place that is pleasant, has great sights, and has decent coffee, with or without tattooed baristas.
posted by Peach at 6:20 PM on August 31, 2018 [1 favorite]
I've been to some odd and inconvenient places in recent years, mostly because they have cheap hotels and large sports facilities where they can hold master's world championships in my sport. Krems, Austria, for instance. Lovely little town with not a whole lot to do. Limoges, France, factory town, dispiritingly mundane. Porec, Croatia, where all the German tourists go, absolutely idyllic. Varna, Bulgaria, a crumbling formerly-Communist resort with lots of stray dogs and graffiti. Stralsund, Germany, which I can't seem to remember much about. My two favorites were Bath, England, which was just a gem of a tourist town, and Moscow, because it was utterly weird and ALSO a great place to be a tourist.
I don't get to do much sightseeing in any of these places, because I'm there to do something, but I can tell you on the whole that I'd rather be in a place that is pleasant, has great sights, and has decent coffee, with or without tattooed baristas.
posted by Peach at 6:20 PM on August 31, 2018 [1 favorite]
Sigh, that second article is so true. Oh, how fondly I remember the heyday of the truly local coffee houses of my youth back in Minnesota, each with their unique customs that represented the real heritage of the place.
How I miss those traditions! Getting up before dawn to go to the Lera Vatten Palats to witness the early morning arrival of the kaffebönor herre (Coffeebean Lord) announcing the variety of bean to be used for the day whilst the kaffe jungfrur (coffee maidens) in their traditional folk costumes would prepare vats of boiling water each taken from a different local lake or stream to suit the varying tastes of the natives. At the first pour of the day we'd all burst into song to celebrate the new brew and then link hands and join in the kaffeehambo, a folk dance praising the glory of caffeine and small pastries.
That's all lost to the ubiquity of people wanting clean well lit spaces to work, converse or study while served by those who no longer see the service as a calling, but as just some job they work for awhile during their college years or some such nonsense. What makes it really sad is that is does so harm how vacationers see us. No longer do we provide them their special experience they can take home and share, we have placed our own needs ahead of that of the one time visitor. Such selfishness is just another measure of our moral decline.
Here in the US, we've gone from a charming nation of tiny artisanal folk communities following picturesque local custom to a country filled with people now more interested in doing their own thing and worried about their own comfort instead of that of those seeking experiences that can be placed on a postcard inducing the wonder and envy of their friends. Alas to think that I should be alive to witness the end of quaint! These are sad times indeed.
posted by gusottertrout at 8:54 PM on August 31, 2018 [17 favorites]
How I miss those traditions! Getting up before dawn to go to the Lera Vatten Palats to witness the early morning arrival of the kaffebönor herre (Coffeebean Lord) announcing the variety of bean to be used for the day whilst the kaffe jungfrur (coffee maidens) in their traditional folk costumes would prepare vats of boiling water each taken from a different local lake or stream to suit the varying tastes of the natives. At the first pour of the day we'd all burst into song to celebrate the new brew and then link hands and join in the kaffeehambo, a folk dance praising the glory of caffeine and small pastries.
That's all lost to the ubiquity of people wanting clean well lit spaces to work, converse or study while served by those who no longer see the service as a calling, but as just some job they work for awhile during their college years or some such nonsense. What makes it really sad is that is does so harm how vacationers see us. No longer do we provide them their special experience they can take home and share, we have placed our own needs ahead of that of the one time visitor. Such selfishness is just another measure of our moral decline.
Here in the US, we've gone from a charming nation of tiny artisanal folk communities following picturesque local custom to a country filled with people now more interested in doing their own thing and worried about their own comfort instead of that of those seeking experiences that can be placed on a postcard inducing the wonder and envy of their friends. Alas to think that I should be alive to witness the end of quaint! These are sad times indeed.
posted by gusottertrout at 8:54 PM on August 31, 2018 [17 favorites]
I mean, I think there are two separate issues getting treated as one in these articles - the whole "Venice becomes like Blackpool, leaving nothing for anybody" problem and the usually misguided search for an "authentic" experience.
It is absolutely a drag when chains and homogenization take over - it's a bit like Brexit, you get a result that even the people who were cheerleading the process don't like. For instance, in Minneapolis, the fringes of downtown and "Uptown", our erstwhile trendy neighborhood, have pretty much developed into lofts-and-Whole-Foods-and-the-Apple-Store. Unless you're someone to whom Whole Foods and the Apple Store and a really crowded shopping street are novel, there's no point in visiting. I used to hit Uptown a couple times a month for record or book browsing, and now I get over there once a year. My assumption is that those parts of town are mostly for affluent newbies - people who moved here for finance or some kind of tech related job, have a lot of money and grew up somewhere so restricted that having an Apple Store and a Design Within Reach on the same street feels like paradise. But even those people would probably have liked it better as it was ten or fifteen years ago, when there were a lot of posh things but most of them were unique.
But authenticity, like the kingdom of god, is within you. It's not more authentic to have banal out-of-towner chat with a bartender at some "authentic" dive bar than it is to get a drink at a tourist hot spot. It may be nicer or more enjoyable or less stressful or cheaper, but the drink at the tourist spot is a real drink and you're really observing the actual world while you drink it. Some might say, actually, that you're really getting to grips with the modern world at the tourist hot spot - that you might as well encounter the horror vacui and banality of the world at the one rather than hiding from it at the other. Crowded shopping streets, chain stores and Whole Foods are the real of Minneapolis, for instance, not some nostalgia for other places and times. If you want to see the real, here it is right here.
Everyone always says that they very maturely like "experiences, not stuff". Well, you can have experiences every day of your life, anywhere you go. If you like novelty, or shaking up your routine, or a change of climate - sure, fine, travel. But if we're all virtuously traveling for "experience", experience is just one more commodity, subject to the same old rules of commodity. In that sense, you might as well just buy one of those gilded hairdryers they've got now.
posted by Frowner at 11:46 PM on August 31, 2018 [12 favorites]
It is absolutely a drag when chains and homogenization take over - it's a bit like Brexit, you get a result that even the people who were cheerleading the process don't like. For instance, in Minneapolis, the fringes of downtown and "Uptown", our erstwhile trendy neighborhood, have pretty much developed into lofts-and-Whole-Foods-and-the-Apple-Store. Unless you're someone to whom Whole Foods and the Apple Store and a really crowded shopping street are novel, there's no point in visiting. I used to hit Uptown a couple times a month for record or book browsing, and now I get over there once a year. My assumption is that those parts of town are mostly for affluent newbies - people who moved here for finance or some kind of tech related job, have a lot of money and grew up somewhere so restricted that having an Apple Store and a Design Within Reach on the same street feels like paradise. But even those people would probably have liked it better as it was ten or fifteen years ago, when there were a lot of posh things but most of them were unique.
But authenticity, like the kingdom of god, is within you. It's not more authentic to have banal out-of-towner chat with a bartender at some "authentic" dive bar than it is to get a drink at a tourist hot spot. It may be nicer or more enjoyable or less stressful or cheaper, but the drink at the tourist spot is a real drink and you're really observing the actual world while you drink it. Some might say, actually, that you're really getting to grips with the modern world at the tourist hot spot - that you might as well encounter the horror vacui and banality of the world at the one rather than hiding from it at the other. Crowded shopping streets, chain stores and Whole Foods are the real of Minneapolis, for instance, not some nostalgia for other places and times. If you want to see the real, here it is right here.
Everyone always says that they very maturely like "experiences, not stuff". Well, you can have experiences every day of your life, anywhere you go. If you like novelty, or shaking up your routine, or a change of climate - sure, fine, travel. But if we're all virtuously traveling for "experience", experience is just one more commodity, subject to the same old rules of commodity. In that sense, you might as well just buy one of those gilded hairdryers they've got now.
posted by Frowner at 11:46 PM on August 31, 2018 [12 favorites]
What’s that line about a character being from Paris, not that it matters since all the malls have the same stores now?
I thought it was 1980’s Brett Easton Ellis, which is exactly the voice the writer seems to be fromaging here, but pre-coffee Google is failing me.
posted by rokusan at 2:55 AM on September 1, 2018
I thought it was 1980’s Brett Easton Ellis, which is exactly the voice the writer seems to be fromaging here, but pre-coffee Google is failing me.
posted by rokusan at 2:55 AM on September 1, 2018
But I think the kind of traveling that is valuable is the kind where it’s not even set up as explicit travel for the sake of travel. You’re traveling there in order to do something, and in the course of doing that, you end up interacting with people. You end up seeing what the different aspects of the culture look like. You end up seeing how people think, how people interact with each other.
I am on a month long training and school opening tour of China - the remote periphery of Bejing, a bunch of tier 3 and 4 cities...
Mostly it is generic upper-mid range hotels and coffee shops, punctuated by genuine experiecnes with teachers and school officials and local shopkeepers.
I have been here 2 years and have no Chinese. My visiting UK colleague is keen to learn, and he goes out running. I am learning more Chinese just standing near him and taking inspiration.
Today I learned "I am not Chinese." and "I am a foreigner." Completely useless, but hey it helps clarify my status when I walk into a random little family shop to buy my smokes in the middle of nowhere, China.
posted by Meatbomb at 4:17 AM on September 1, 2018
I am on a month long training and school opening tour of China - the remote periphery of Bejing, a bunch of tier 3 and 4 cities...
Mostly it is generic upper-mid range hotels and coffee shops, punctuated by genuine experiecnes with teachers and school officials and local shopkeepers.
I have been here 2 years and have no Chinese. My visiting UK colleague is keen to learn, and he goes out running. I am learning more Chinese just standing near him and taking inspiration.
Today I learned "I am not Chinese." and "I am a foreigner." Completely useless, but hey it helps clarify my status when I walk into a random little family shop to buy my smokes in the middle of nowhere, China.
posted by Meatbomb at 4:17 AM on September 1, 2018
What’s that line about a character being from Paris, not that it matters since all the malls have the same stores now?
Decades ago, I observed that the entire US was trying to become US route 17 through northern jersey.
posted by mikelieman at 4:20 AM on September 1, 2018
Decades ago, I observed that the entire US was trying to become US route 17 through northern jersey.
posted by mikelieman at 4:20 AM on September 1, 2018
> But I think the kind of traveling that is valuable is the kind where it’s not even set up as explicit travel for the sake of travel. You’re traveling there in order to do something, and in the course of doing that, you end up interacting with people.
This is basically how I have made every friend of my adult life.
posted by rokusan at 7:18 AM on September 1, 2018 [3 favorites]
This is basically how I have made every friend of my adult life.
posted by rokusan at 7:18 AM on September 1, 2018 [3 favorites]
Decades ago, I observed that the entire US was trying to become US route 17 through northern jersey.
I was at a strip mall somewhere in Silicon Valley a few years ago and thought, "Christ, it looks like New Jersey here but with palm trees."
posted by octothorpe at 8:59 AM on September 1, 2018 [2 favorites]
I was at a strip mall somewhere in Silicon Valley a few years ago and thought, "Christ, it looks like New Jersey here but with palm trees."
posted by octothorpe at 8:59 AM on September 1, 2018 [2 favorites]
Both of these articles reek of the writer being burnt out on travel and blaming it on the internet or whatever. The New York one in particular... some years ago, that magazine published a ranty screed from someone decrying the touristization of 57th Street... you know, it used to be super-classy and now there's all this commercial shit on it, o tempora, o mores. In the middle of it, he states as an aside that he's never worn an article of clothing with writing on it. Never. Stop and think about that for a second. If he ever wore T-shirts (I have occasionally run across people who refused to do so, because T-shirts are "underwear", but you'd better believe that they were OK with polo shirts, perhaps excessively so), they were either blank or that Pink Floyd shirt that's just the cover of Dark Side of the Moon, I guess. I felt comfortable stopping right there.
And now this writer, who had done some travel piece on "a mission to the cities and towns closest to the geographic center of each state", which seems less a mission than a desperate attempt to find an unused gimmick for a travel article (what's in the middle of Alaska or Nebraska?), and, surprise surprise, found out that most of the bigger and presumably more interesting cities tend to be on river banks, lake shores, and sea coasts, and therefore not in the middle of the prairie. Dive bars are the same because they're not really for slumming hipsters, they're for the local alcoholics to drink themselves to death in. Barbecue joints tend to lacquer their tables because it makes it easier to clean up. You don't get a feeling that the author might have realized that you have to look for something unique, rather than there being a line of footsteps painted on the pavement going up to the front door.
The first author does a bit better, but the revelation that you might have a better time by shutting your fucking phone off and just winging it is hardly new. I stopped using Yelp because someone trashed the local Vietnamese restaurant--a nice, unpretentious place where you can buy a bowl of pho almost big enough to bathe in--because they saw a bug there, once, and acted as if the place should be declared a Superfund site. (I suspect that they tried to wrangle a free meal out of the place and failed.)
posted by Halloween Jack at 10:02 AM on September 1, 2018 [4 favorites]
And now this writer, who had done some travel piece on "a mission to the cities and towns closest to the geographic center of each state", which seems less a mission than a desperate attempt to find an unused gimmick for a travel article (what's in the middle of Alaska or Nebraska?), and, surprise surprise, found out that most of the bigger and presumably more interesting cities tend to be on river banks, lake shores, and sea coasts, and therefore not in the middle of the prairie. Dive bars are the same because they're not really for slumming hipsters, they're for the local alcoholics to drink themselves to death in. Barbecue joints tend to lacquer their tables because it makes it easier to clean up. You don't get a feeling that the author might have realized that you have to look for something unique, rather than there being a line of footsteps painted on the pavement going up to the front door.
The first author does a bit better, but the revelation that you might have a better time by shutting your fucking phone off and just winging it is hardly new. I stopped using Yelp because someone trashed the local Vietnamese restaurant--a nice, unpretentious place where you can buy a bowl of pho almost big enough to bathe in--because they saw a bug there, once, and acted as if the place should be declared a Superfund site. (I suspect that they tried to wrangle a free meal out of the place and failed.)
posted by Halloween Jack at 10:02 AM on September 1, 2018 [4 favorites]
The coffee shop thing seems like a result of third wave coffee becoming a big thing, and the resulting design aesthetics that came with that, so perhaps that is why every coffee shop now feels the same. I’ve ranted about this previously, but a lot of places have a Kinfolk magazine aesthetic that seems vaguely Scandinavian inspired. I’ve only been to Sweden, where there are plenty of coffee shops that have this aesthetic, so I can’t speak to the rest of the region. Portland has several specialty coffee shops that fit this general aesthetic, just as Seattle does as well, and probably most cities like them (and even small college towns). I agree that Instagram has proliferated this style even further, because for whatever reason this is a trend that results in likes and follows.
If I personally drank coffee enough to go to coffee shops often I’d want to go to a coffee shop that has an old, historic university feeling and aesthetic to it. Cozy, where I can sit at an old table and chair in the corner surrounded by books. And see, I’ve never been to an old, historic university, but I imagine a library some place like Oxford. It’s all in my imagination. The coffee shop is a weird aesthetic projection of space, like going into a Waffle House on an old freeway in a small town, or going into a diner that is actually a classic diner and not something that is attempting to be intentionally super retro.
I think as cities change and time advances people find themselves aestheticizing and fetishizing things the generation before them had or idealized to them, as a form of comfort against a rapidly changing world, while still consuming at places that are in some way more “ethical” or progressive than places like Starbucks. Even though Peet’s Coffee bought out Stumptown a few years back, there are loads of people that prefer Stumptown over Starbucks for a variety of reasons, and I think aesthetics is a big one. Likewise, Stumptown is a major tourist destination for Portland. A third wave coffee shop like Stumptown is where you can sit down and get some work done on your laptop while the barista plays Godspeed You! Black Emperor, versus a diner where you can get a cup and read the newspaper while the people from the night shift all saunter in.
It’s sort of like when Twin Peaks got really popular again for the millennial generation, and all of a sudden everybody was taking trips to Twede’s Cafe in Washington.
posted by gucci mane at 12:09 PM on September 1, 2018 [3 favorites]
If I personally drank coffee enough to go to coffee shops often I’d want to go to a coffee shop that has an old, historic university feeling and aesthetic to it. Cozy, where I can sit at an old table and chair in the corner surrounded by books. And see, I’ve never been to an old, historic university, but I imagine a library some place like Oxford. It’s all in my imagination. The coffee shop is a weird aesthetic projection of space, like going into a Waffle House on an old freeway in a small town, or going into a diner that is actually a classic diner and not something that is attempting to be intentionally super retro.
I think as cities change and time advances people find themselves aestheticizing and fetishizing things the generation before them had or idealized to them, as a form of comfort against a rapidly changing world, while still consuming at places that are in some way more “ethical” or progressive than places like Starbucks. Even though Peet’s Coffee bought out Stumptown a few years back, there are loads of people that prefer Stumptown over Starbucks for a variety of reasons, and I think aesthetics is a big one. Likewise, Stumptown is a major tourist destination for Portland. A third wave coffee shop like Stumptown is where you can sit down and get some work done on your laptop while the barista plays Godspeed You! Black Emperor, versus a diner where you can get a cup and read the newspaper while the people from the night shift all saunter in.
It’s sort of like when Twin Peaks got really popular again for the millennial generation, and all of a sudden everybody was taking trips to Twede’s Cafe in Washington.
posted by gucci mane at 12:09 PM on September 1, 2018 [3 favorites]
You know, the one and only time I have ever been to Twede's Cafe, the next booth over contained the whole Chromatics band (Twin Peaks, season 3, Episode 1 and 12), eating breakfast.
Because of course.
posted by rokusan at 3:52 PM on September 1, 2018 [3 favorites]
Because of course.
posted by rokusan at 3:52 PM on September 1, 2018 [3 favorites]
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I noticed the same kind of person was behind the counter: young and tattooed and bespectacled. The same kind of patrons: young and tattooed and bespectacled, clacking away on MacBooks.
Perhaps, maybe, it is possible, that the author found all the same places everywhere... because they were looking for the same place everywhere?
I feel we've learned a lot more about the author than we did about American cities.
posted by AlSweigart at 11:52 AM on August 31, 2018 [18 favorites]