"Comedy is medicine. Not coloured sweeties to rot the teeth with."
September 4, 2018 9:08 AM   Subscribe

 
Thanks for posting, Artw. Great article.

It articulates and expands on something that had been rattling around the back of my head for a while, because even biostatisticians couldn't miss the shift in comedy (which I think is a good thing). Actually, it's less of a shift and more of an expansion. There's still plenty of old-fashioned joke-telling, but the field has expanded to include these newer forms of "comedy." Insightful, thought-provoking, as comedy should be, but without punchlines. The amusement comes from the surprise at the angles in the insights, not from "set-up/joke" timing. Still very amusing, though, and I believe that's what makes it comedy.
posted by Mental Wimp at 9:19 AM on September 4, 2018


Take my old school misogynistic stogie smoking fast talking comic... (take a beat) please.
posted by sammyo at 9:25 AM on September 4, 2018 [12 favorites]


People laughed at me when I said straight-up gag merchants were on the wane, they're not laughing now.
posted by Damienmce at 9:45 AM on September 4, 2018 [17 favorites]


Here in Germany, there hasn't been such a divide between comedy and social commentary, so this change in the US doesn't seem so exceptional.

A big part of the cabaret tradition has been jumping between comedy and social commentary (and music, dance, etc). So a performer like Hagen Rether is superficially a comedian -- but, like the artists in the OP, largely uninterested in making people laugh.
posted by danohu at 9:54 AM on September 4, 2018 [2 favorites]


This isn't a sudden new development. For instance, someone should ask some of these current comedians how much they were influenced by work like that of George Carlin's in the late 80's - early 00's.
posted by Greg_Ace at 10:00 AM on September 4, 2018


Well, funny enough that I'll laugh.
posted by MartinWisse at 10:02 AM on September 4, 2018 [4 favorites]


The title is from a 1975 play, so yeah, new AND old...
posted by Artw at 10:03 AM on September 4, 2018


As someone who's been doing comedy for over a decade now, I'd say it's best if comedy is so funny that you can't breathe and you feel high and full of wonder after watching it, but that's not always what people want. The personal struggle is to be cool with that.
posted by Philipschall at 10:11 AM on September 4, 2018 [5 favorites]


I get where they're coming from and all, but my favorite comic working is Ron Funches and he brings nothing but jokes. Some of the jokes are personal but the structure is there. He's like the punk band that reminds you why you loved punk (or ignorant rap) in the first place.
posted by East14thTaco at 10:20 AM on September 4, 2018 [4 favorites]


I don't want to get teary eyed from a stand up set unless it's from laughter.
posted by agregoli at 10:32 AM on September 4, 2018 [1 favorite]


NYT had a good article on the subject as the Nanette fervor reached its zenith this summer.

Mentioned in that article, Michelle Wolf's Netflix show has been a revelation for me lately in both being incredibly irreverent dealing with some difficult topics. On top of that--and I can't say this for a lot of the "important" "comedy"--it's funny to me. Key and Peele often hit that sweet spot, too, and so did Amy Schumer's sketch show, though a little less often.

As with all matters of taste, I'm glad that we've got an entertainment ecosystem that can encompass all of this. I don't want the comedy I consume to be an inspirational lecture that would feel right at home on a TED stage, but I'm glad there is enough of an audience to allow for those sorts of performers to have a large stage. It's great to have more voices...I'll just stick to what's funny to me.

Also, this is a subject, alongside superhero movies and a few other major pop cultural subjects, where a contrary opinion seems to end conversations and make others feel bad, at least with the people I'm usually around, so I normally just say, "Eh, it's not for me," hope that no one asks me any questions, shut up until the crowd moves on to another topic.
posted by msbrauer at 10:53 AM on September 4, 2018 [3 favorites]


What’s funny is more subjective than what is dramatically resonant

“One must have a heart of stone to read the death of little Nell without laughing.”

Oscar Wilde
posted by BWA at 11:25 AM on September 4, 2018 [7 favorites]


The article is great and more nuanced and sophisticated than I thought it would be after the set-up. And in the NYT Magazine this weekend: Norm Macdonald, Still in Search of the Perfect Joke.
posted by Drab_Parts at 2:45 PM on September 4, 2018 [2 favorites]


Thanks for posting this. It certainly deals with the nuance of the topic well, which was somewhat surprising.

I don't think this notion of comedians doing serious non-jokes is new at all - it's just that more "comedians" are doing it for longer, even the entirety of their shows. (Reminds me of those comedians who become talk show hosts and stop being funny, heh.) But still, if I'm not laughing, it ain't comedy in my book. Get a new name for your TED talk.

Looking at all of this together, what I’m seeing is a shift away from comedian as provider of a service (laughs), and toward comedian as artist.

Stewart Lee way ahead of the curve, as usual. Does metacomedy a lot, has done for years now and it's actually funny.
posted by Juso No Thankyou at 3:09 PM on September 4, 2018 [3 favorites]


I've always wanted to be a monologuist with a humorous bent, but I've never had the courage to stand on a stage alone. Also, I was friends with Bill Hicks and a lot of the comedians from that period in time, and the industry just seemed a terrible place for women. I mean, I've known some astonishing women in comedy in the 80s and early 90s, and almost all of them turned to writing rather than performing. Or, like Brett Butler, the industry chewed them up and spit them out.

That said, I've seen some amazing women, mostly European lately, and I hope this means the industry iis becoming more friendly. And perhaps this belongs in an askme, but I would love to hear about new talent doing new things.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 4:51 PM on September 4, 2018 [1 favorite]


There's a truism that horror movies do surprisingly well during times of high societal anxiety. You'd think that people would look for something lighter-hearted, but it's not the case. Comedy and horror have always played in the same hysterical sandbox. Ghost stories and punchline jokes for instance, have the same structure and are spread the same way: word of mouth around campfires, water coolers, and schoolyards. I think the darkness of our comedy fits the background.

I also think that stand up in particular is coming into its own as a medium rather than a genre. Like, there are branching genres of stand up. Certainly, there are trailblazers folks are pointing to in this thread, but we're seeing standup for all audiences and moods, recently. Music ain't just for dancing, and comedy ain't just for yuks.

I like Ike Birbiglia's take best, which is that comedians are like priests. They're main talent is getting an audience invested enough to go along with the idea that a bunch of folks are going to sit around listening to one person address a crowd for a while. This is the main thing...and the jokes are just part of it.

Gripping, farcicle offerings like Louis or Atlanta come about when people bring what worked on stage to the screen, just like comedy has always worked.
posted by es_de_bah at 5:55 PM on September 4, 2018 [3 favorites]


Comedy and horror have always played in the same hysterical sandbox.
Both involve logical twists, and if there are 'jump scares' there must also be 'jump laughs'.
posted by oneswellfoop at 9:18 PM on September 4, 2018 [1 favorite]


... there must also be 'jump laughs'.

Mais oui!
posted by Greg_Ace at 11:10 PM on September 4, 2018 [3 favorites]


I'm with MartinWisse: if it doesn't make me laugh, or at least amuse me, it's not comedy. It may be a bitter laugh or a dark one, it may be a cynical smile, but without it, not comedy. It doesn't mean it isn't *worthwhile*, but it's not comedy.
posted by tavella at 10:00 AM on September 5, 2018


this is a slight derail but the linked clip to Jon Stewart on Crossfire in 2004 contains this gem:
Tucker Calrson: "If Kerry gets elected, [...] will it be harder for you to mock his administration if he becomes president?"
Jon Stewart: "The only way it would be harder is if his administration is less absurd than this one. [...] But, uh, I mean it'd be hard to top this group."

oh how innocent we were
posted by numaner at 4:07 PM on September 5, 2018 [2 favorites]


if it doesn't make me laugh, or at least amuse me, it's not comedy

I'm not sure. The great example is Chris Morris' Jam and Blue Jam (the former is a TV adaptation of the latter), which is structurally a sketch comedy programme (especially Jam). Everything about the way it is constructed tells you it is comedy. But it is designed to be distressing rather than funny. And it is, at times, very upsetting indeed. Why one would want to experience such a thing, I don't know, and I'm not going to link to it on YouTube (and if you go to look for it, I would attach a general trigger warning for pretty much anything. I don't remember any overt racism, but everything else one might need a trigger warning for is featured), but it is an extraordinary thing, and I do find I want to re-experience at least parts of it. It is at times very funny indeed, at other times it is horrific or deeply, deeply sad. I don't think it could be made today.

But in its form and construction (and a lot of its performance) it couldn't be anything other than a sketch comedy show.
posted by Grangousier at 5:45 PM on September 5, 2018 [1 favorite]


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