Conspiracy Theories Replace Systemic Understanding Of Oppresion
October 6, 2018 10:02 AM Subscribe
“Illuminati theory helps oppressed people to explain our experiences in the hood. Society throws horrible stuff in our faces: our family members get locked up for bullshit. Our friends kill each other over beefs, money or turf. Our future is full of dead-end jobs that don’t pay shit. We struggle to pay bills while others live in luxury. On TV, we see people all over the world dying in poverty, even though we live in the most materially abundant society in history. Most people act like none of these terrible things are happening. Why does this occur? We start looking for answers, and Illuminati theory provides one.
We believe Illuminati theory is wrong, and we wrote this pamphlet to offer a different answer. “ How to Overthrow the Illuminati: How conspiracy theories thrived in the aftermath of the Black Power movements and how to combat them.
We believe Illuminati theory is wrong, and we wrote this pamphlet to offer a different answer. “ How to Overthrow the Illuminati: How conspiracy theories thrived in the aftermath of the Black Power movements and how to combat them.
Fascinating history! However, at one point I suddenly hit some cognitive dissonance. After explaining how groups of activists discussed change in Freemason meetings the authors say...
"Many famous revolutionaries developed their radical ideas while they were Freemasons. Because of this association with Enlightenment radicalism, people who opposed revolution tended to view Freemasons as the enemy. This is a common pattern: the elite always think revolutions are planned and directed by a small group of enlightened people, instead of by masses of people themselves."
It seems they are contradicting themselves a bit, since the theme so far has been to debunk this "common pattern." If the famous revolutionaries were Freemasons, was that not a logical conclusion to consider them the enemy? Perhaps the elite mistake was to think that any given revolution could be quelled by attacking the leaders.
On preview: right, there have been plenty of racist conspiracies. What is the lesson to learn here?
posted by TreeRooster at 10:35 AM on October 6, 2018 [1 favorite]
"Many famous revolutionaries developed their radical ideas while they were Freemasons. Because of this association with Enlightenment radicalism, people who opposed revolution tended to view Freemasons as the enemy. This is a common pattern: the elite always think revolutions are planned and directed by a small group of enlightened people, instead of by masses of people themselves."
It seems they are contradicting themselves a bit, since the theme so far has been to debunk this "common pattern." If the famous revolutionaries were Freemasons, was that not a logical conclusion to consider them the enemy? Perhaps the elite mistake was to think that any given revolution could be quelled by attacking the leaders.
On preview: right, there have been plenty of racist conspiracies. What is the lesson to learn here?
posted by TreeRooster at 10:35 AM on October 6, 2018 [1 favorite]
Wait wait wait. The premise is that the belief in Illuminati Theory is widespread among oppressed people in the hood. Is there any truth to that?
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 10:42 AM on October 6, 2018 [8 favorites]
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 10:42 AM on October 6, 2018 [8 favorites]
“If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about answers.”
-Thomas Pynchon
posted by vibrotronica at 10:46 AM on October 6, 2018 [30 favorites]
-Thomas Pynchon
posted by vibrotronica at 10:46 AM on October 6, 2018 [30 favorites]
Needs moar fnord
posted by chavenet at 10:48 AM on October 6, 2018 [7 favorites]
posted by chavenet at 10:48 AM on October 6, 2018 [7 favorites]
Hip hop and Illuminati, a bit of background. more
posted by Ideefixe at 10:52 AM on October 6, 2018 [8 favorites]
posted by Ideefixe at 10:52 AM on October 6, 2018 [8 favorites]
Wait wait wait. The premise is that the belief in Illuminati Theory is widespread among oppressed people in the hood. Is there any truth to that?
In my anecdotal experience, absolutely yes. A certain brand of conspiratorial thinking where the Illuminati has a major presence is definitely common among black americans from the "hood". It's also widespread in hip-hop circles. Take, for example, noted Illuminati theorist, KRS-One.
posted by dis_integration at 10:53 AM on October 6, 2018 [11 favorites]
In my anecdotal experience, absolutely yes. A certain brand of conspiratorial thinking where the Illuminati has a major presence is definitely common among black americans from the "hood". It's also widespread in hip-hop circles. Take, for example, noted Illuminati theorist, KRS-One.
posted by dis_integration at 10:53 AM on October 6, 2018 [11 favorites]
qxny, yeah, a ton of woke young ppl of color from “hood” neighborhoods believe in Illuminati theories. I’m more concerned with the people running this site— “This blog post is an online version of the pamphlet “How to Overthrow the Illuminati” which we are passing out in the hood.” sounds like twitter trolls failing to mimic AAVE. The people who wrote this site are not fluent in “youth” or Black culture at all and I feel like black twitter would tear this site apart immediately upon contact. Are these guys a bunch of white marxists trying to connect with poc kids without having any organic connection to those spaces or ??? Do they know twitter and Instagram are where the youth are congregating, not wordpress or pamphlets? Just, ??? The idea of going to “the hood” to pass out zines to “the youth” seems patronizing and like a total waste of printer paper at best.
posted by moonlight on vermont at 10:58 AM on October 6, 2018 [9 favorites]
posted by moonlight on vermont at 10:58 AM on October 6, 2018 [9 favorites]
For those asking what's wrong with Illuminati Theory, ask yourselves this: do you seriously believe that George Soros masterminded the Kavanaugh protests, #metoo and #Blacklivesmatter? Do you believe nobody died in Sandy Hook and the Parkland teens are crisis actors?
Because that's Illuminati Theory in a nutshell: there are no real mass movements, just hidden elite trying to manipulate the world.
There's also the fact that if you dig deep enough into pretty much any conspiracy theory, you get to anti-semitic roots. The "George Soros funds the protests" theory barely conceals it's antisemitism. And the last guy I argued about 9-11 with tip about five minutes to bring up Rothschilds.
posted by happyroach at 10:58 AM on October 6, 2018 [23 favorites]
Because that's Illuminati Theory in a nutshell: there are no real mass movements, just hidden elite trying to manipulate the world.
There's also the fact that if you dig deep enough into pretty much any conspiracy theory, you get to anti-semitic roots. The "George Soros funds the protests" theory barely conceals it's antisemitism. And the last guy I argued about 9-11 with tip about five minutes to bring up Rothschilds.
posted by happyroach at 10:58 AM on October 6, 2018 [23 favorites]
re these guys a bunch of white marxists trying to connect with poc kids without having any organic connection to those spaces or ??? Do they know twitter and Instagram are where the youth are congregating, not wordpress or pamphlets? Just, ??? The idea of going to “the hood” to pass out zines to “the youth” seems patronizing and like a total waste of printer paper at best.
Read about who they are becore throwing accusations like that
https://overthrowingilluminati.wordpress.com/about/
posted by lalochezia at 11:10 AM on October 6, 2018 [8 favorites]
Read about who they are becore throwing accusations like that
https://overthrowingilluminati.wordpress.com/about/
posted by lalochezia at 11:10 AM on October 6, 2018 [8 favorites]
Unsurprisingly don't read the comments on that wordpress about page, two in it turns into a rant against "Zionist Globalists" which shows that these people have a ways to go combating this nonsense.
Mobunited is right of course, there have been conspiracies- and that's kinda the point. The Government doesn't want you to uncover what they're really doing so they use chaos agents to spread shit like this so people are busy ranting against Soros and the Rothschilds instead of the real people in power. That was the function of Jews in Europe too- scapegoats people in power could direct anger against when kings and later ministers did something truly egregious. We all know how that turned out. I'm glad someone is trying to combat this.
posted by Homo neanderthalensis at 11:18 AM on October 6, 2018 [15 favorites]
Mobunited is right of course, there have been conspiracies- and that's kinda the point. The Government doesn't want you to uncover what they're really doing so they use chaos agents to spread shit like this so people are busy ranting against Soros and the Rothschilds instead of the real people in power. That was the function of Jews in Europe too- scapegoats people in power could direct anger against when kings and later ministers did something truly egregious. We all know how that turned out. I'm glad someone is trying to combat this.
posted by Homo neanderthalensis at 11:18 AM on October 6, 2018 [15 favorites]
One of the writers of the phamplet , interviewed in this episode of the Antfiada Podcast, is Tanzeem Ajmiri, Formerly a youth worker and community organizer in the Bronx.
posted by The Whelk at 11:33 AM on October 6, 2018 [11 favorites]
posted by The Whelk at 11:33 AM on October 6, 2018 [11 favorites]
The Whelk, thanks for that clarification. With no disrespect intended towards Tamzeen Amjiri or her work, the only person who had working links or a clear social media presence on the “about” page was the guy from Seattle who wrote a rap battle about white male working class consciousness via Noel Ignatiev, so apologies for making assumptions. The Fire Next Time Collective’s website is down, not just in this link but VICE articles sourcing them; I hope they’re OK.
posted by moonlight on vermont at 11:44 AM on October 6, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by moonlight on vermont at 11:44 AM on October 6, 2018 [1 favorite]
From that about link:
We created this project for our friends and comrades in the ‘hood, to deepen our ongoing conversations and struggles together. We wrote the pamphlet based on feedback from them, and we welcome more feedback as we continue to revise and sharpen our arguments.posted by schadenfrau at 12:17 PM on October 6, 2018 [2 favorites]
Whelk and others, I apologize for that shitshow of a comment; it’s been a frustrating day but making ugly comments about community organizers of any kind is crossing a line. I woke up this morning mad about Noah Berlatsky and other white leftists appropriating woc’s ideas and voices and ended up steamrolling Tanzeen Amjiri’s work and attributing it to white men, really not OK. Apologies to you and the writers of this zine; they didn’t deserve that kind of snottiness in response to their work and time.
posted by moonlight on vermont at 12:25 PM on October 6, 2018 [8 favorites]
posted by moonlight on vermont at 12:25 PM on October 6, 2018 [8 favorites]
The trouble with this is that there really have been wide ranging conspiracies to oppress African-Americans. COINTELPRO was real. Racist medical experiments and eugenics initiatives were real. The Klan is real. There has been strong journalism associating the cocaine flood with the 80s with US state power. A large segment of white people murdered, cheated and disenfranchised African-Americans with impunity and conspired to protect each other from the possible fallout.
I wouldn't call those "conspiracies" in the same sense as the classic conspiracy theory that posits an almost all-powerful hidden cabal that controls all aspects of life in pursuit of a singular goal. Those were essentially just reflections of fairly open policies and attitudes towards African-Americans. Moreover, despite similarities, they aren't part of an overarching, coherent plan pursuing a specific goal w/r/t the African-American population. Take the 80s drug trade, for example: here we see different parts of the US government acting at odds with each other, and likely with limited knowledge of the others; no doubt the govt. made deals to allow drugs into the US, and specifically to inner cities -- often in order to catch other drug dealers, often in inner cities. What makes government so profitable for the owner class, and so effective at adapting its oppressive powers to new situations, is that they can get you coming and going, as it were.
posted by Saxon Kane at 12:27 PM on October 6, 2018 [7 favorites]
I wouldn't call those "conspiracies" in the same sense as the classic conspiracy theory that posits an almost all-powerful hidden cabal that controls all aspects of life in pursuit of a singular goal. Those were essentially just reflections of fairly open policies and attitudes towards African-Americans. Moreover, despite similarities, they aren't part of an overarching, coherent plan pursuing a specific goal w/r/t the African-American population. Take the 80s drug trade, for example: here we see different parts of the US government acting at odds with each other, and likely with limited knowledge of the others; no doubt the govt. made deals to allow drugs into the US, and specifically to inner cities -- often in order to catch other drug dealers, often in inner cities. What makes government so profitable for the owner class, and so effective at adapting its oppressive powers to new situations, is that they can get you coming and going, as it were.
posted by Saxon Kane at 12:27 PM on October 6, 2018 [7 favorites]
There's also the fact that if you dig deep enough into pretty much any conspiracy theory, you get to anti-semitic roots.
It’s amazing how true this is; I’d like to find one conspiracy that didn’t have an antisemetic heart, but I doubt I ever will. It’s like magnets and iron filings.
posted by GenjiandProust at 1:43 PM on October 6, 2018 [11 favorites]
It’s amazing how true this is; I’d like to find one conspiracy that didn’t have an antisemetic heart, but I doubt I ever will. It’s like magnets and iron filings.
posted by GenjiandProust at 1:43 PM on October 6, 2018 [11 favorites]
Yeah! And speaking of -- fucking magnets, how do they work?
posted by Saxon Kane at 1:47 PM on October 6, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by Saxon Kane at 1:47 PM on October 6, 2018 [4 favorites]
Had a work friend who was into the Illuminati in an always-surprisingly serious way. This is when I was managing at a burrito place, and we was about 6-7 years younger than me and just out of highschool. Super smart but would go really quiet and dark when his friends brought it up, not unlike a very religious person. Always bummed me out. This was around the beginning of the Obama administration and he was sure that Obama was evil. We worked with is younger cousin, who didn't take it seriously I think I kinda helped talking him out of the idea, but that only made the older cousin's seriousness the more striking. Like I said, he was young and smart, so I'm sure he grew out of it. Lord knows I put hard faith in a lot of stupid ideas when I was his age.
posted by es_de_bah at 2:42 PM on October 6, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by es_de_bah at 2:42 PM on October 6, 2018 [1 favorite]
Well, outside the West you get a lot more non-anti-Semitic conspiracy theories. But they're often still racist in some way. (For example, there are some right-wingers in Japan who have conspiracy theories about Koreans secretly controlling all kinds of things in Japan).
posted by thefoxgod at 3:01 PM on October 6, 2018 [7 favorites]
posted by thefoxgod at 3:01 PM on October 6, 2018 [7 favorites]
qxntpqbbbqxl More anecdotal data, but I spent time in prisons and jails in the south and the northeast. Most of the other incarcerated people were POC. Books on secret societies and conspiracy theories were HUGELY popular. I had a reputation as a reader, and people would pull up on me all the time and ask me if I had any books about secret societies. There were also a surprising number of Sovereign Citizens who would try and engage me in their particular brand of bullshit ALL the time.
posted by youthenrage at 4:10 PM on October 6, 2018 [12 favorites]
posted by youthenrage at 4:10 PM on October 6, 2018 [12 favorites]
Mark Jacobson's new biography on Bill Cooper (author of Behold a Pale Horse) touches on this too, it has a chapter on how BaPH went viral via the Nation of Islam, NYC prisons and the Wu Tang Clan. It's still a top seller on Amazon.
posted by nfultz at 4:38 PM on October 6, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by nfultz at 4:38 PM on October 6, 2018 [1 favorite]
It's interesting to note that the (mythical) Illuminati went from being proto-Communists to being The Man. The original Illuminati legend, from the Bavarian Illuminati and claims about their involvement in the French and American Revolutions, fits into the “Garden of Eden” trope favoured by many conservatives, which holds that the masses were born to serve and would be quite happy with their humble place in the hierarchy of being, were it not for nefarious agitators convincing them that they're “oppressed”/“exploited” and making trouble. (In more recent times, the Illuminati have been replaced by anarchists, communists, incomprehensible French philosophers who are really nefarious communists, and (((George Soros))) who's personally running payroll on the #MeToo and Black Lives Matter protests.) Now, after Illuminatus! and the Illuminati card game, the idea of the Illuminati has been torn from its context of diabolical world revolution and repurposed into the deus ex machina of oppression.
posted by acb at 6:12 PM on October 6, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by acb at 6:12 PM on October 6, 2018 [3 favorites]
I'll offer a cracked.com article about all this that includes a pretty insightful quote:
"The interesting thing here is that cumulatively, they're talking about groups--politicians, bankers, big media--that do control the world. But they control it in the sense that a group of squirrels can "control" how that meatloaf they found the trash gets eaten. It'll get eaten, all right, but the organization is what's lacking."
5 Pathetic Groups That People Think Rule the World
posted by lon_star at 6:23 PM on October 6, 2018 [10 favorites]
"The interesting thing here is that cumulatively, they're talking about groups--politicians, bankers, big media--that do control the world. But they control it in the sense that a group of squirrels can "control" how that meatloaf they found the trash gets eaten. It'll get eaten, all right, but the organization is what's lacking."
5 Pathetic Groups That People Think Rule the World
posted by lon_star at 6:23 PM on October 6, 2018 [10 favorites]
I liked my illuminati phobia better when they were high level freemasons, rather than drunken frat boy legacies
posted by Redhush at 7:35 PM on October 6, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by Redhush at 7:35 PM on October 6, 2018 [2 favorites]
Those two groups are essentially interchangeable, you know.
posted by Grangousier at 2:54 AM on October 7, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by Grangousier at 2:54 AM on October 7, 2018 [4 favorites]
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posted by mobunited at 10:31 AM on October 6, 2018 [46 favorites]