This Bud’s For You*…
November 11, 2018 7:07 AM Subscribe
So growing marijuana is now legal where you live, and you want to grow your own. Joe Lstiburek, ASHRAE fellow, has some advice for you re: avoiding a mold disaster and getting good results.
The 'Ask Ed' books makes for a great resource as well.
posted by NoMich at 7:44 AM on November 11, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by NoMich at 7:44 AM on November 11, 2018 [1 favorite]
In Ontario (perhaps all of Canada?), the per household plant limit is four. Capital intensive purpose-built structures don't really make sense at that scale.
posted by tummy_rub at 7:52 AM on November 11, 2018
posted by tummy_rub at 7:52 AM on November 11, 2018
It's legal to grow here but the weed stores are so convenient and prices are low enough that I don't know almost anyone who still grows other than a couple of hobbyists. I've heard of rental houses getting absolutely trashed by the vapor issues from people setting up illegal grow operations inside, and you absolutely would want to apply some good building engineering for a commercial operation.
The FPP piece links to a similar article about constructing indoor wine cellars that I found interesting.
posted by Dip Flash at 8:18 AM on November 11, 2018
The FPP piece links to a similar article about constructing indoor wine cellars that I found interesting.
posted by Dip Flash at 8:18 AM on November 11, 2018
Ventilation. Ventilation. Ventilation.
posted by mikelieman at 8:34 AM on November 11, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by mikelieman at 8:34 AM on November 11, 2018 [2 favorites]
This is one of my areas of expertise, too, however:
It's just an advertisement for this guy's company...did he pay for it?
There isn't any information in here that you couldn't have learned from a subscription to High Times, and browsing a few of the numerous dedicated online grow forums.
posted by littlejohnnyjewel at 8:51 AM on November 11, 2018 [2 favorites]
It's just an advertisement for this guy's company...did he pay for it?
There isn't any information in here that you couldn't have learned from a subscription to High Times, and browsing a few of the numerous dedicated online grow forums.
posted by littlejohnnyjewel at 8:51 AM on November 11, 2018 [2 favorites]
There is also some straight-up bad information, like: "Now on to carbon dioxide levels. Plants need lots of carbon dioxide. About 1200 ppm on average."
This is pure bullshit...your plants will do just fine at ambient CO2 levels.
posted by littlejohnnyjewel at 8:57 AM on November 11, 2018 [4 favorites]
This is pure bullshit...your plants will do just fine at ambient CO2 levels.
posted by littlejohnnyjewel at 8:57 AM on November 11, 2018 [4 favorites]
This is pure bullshit...your plants will do just fine at ambient CO2 levels.
Cannabis responds especially vigorously to CO2 amendments, especially when we're talking about sealed-room indoor grows where ambient CO2 may plummet.
It's overkill for almost all hobbyist grows but if you've got a sea of green type grow in a small space that's very well sealed, has an access control "airlock" and such, you can actually run out of ambient CO2.
In any case, this is like saying "your plants will do just fine without soil amendments or fertilizers" which is also true, but if you want maximum yields and quality per plant, CO2 amendment can make a world of difference the same way using appropriate fertilizers at the right times and quantities will make a world of difference.
And these days you can get EXTREMELY nerdy about cannabis growing. You can optimize the heck out of the process, and using CO2 generators is one of those optimizations.
And you're not going to be growing centerfold quality buds without a lot of these amendments and processes. The natural, un-amended state of a cannabis plant isn't to grow giant mutant flowers like heads of broccoli. Normally the flowers are very sparse, thing and small things spread out all over a plant, not this "it's almost entirely flower by weight" modern cannabis, and especially not high THC cannabis.
posted by loquacious at 9:20 AM on November 11, 2018 [5 favorites]
Cannabis responds especially vigorously to CO2 amendments, especially when we're talking about sealed-room indoor grows where ambient CO2 may plummet.
It's overkill for almost all hobbyist grows but if you've got a sea of green type grow in a small space that's very well sealed, has an access control "airlock" and such, you can actually run out of ambient CO2.
In any case, this is like saying "your plants will do just fine without soil amendments or fertilizers" which is also true, but if you want maximum yields and quality per plant, CO2 amendment can make a world of difference the same way using appropriate fertilizers at the right times and quantities will make a world of difference.
And these days you can get EXTREMELY nerdy about cannabis growing. You can optimize the heck out of the process, and using CO2 generators is one of those optimizations.
And you're not going to be growing centerfold quality buds without a lot of these amendments and processes. The natural, un-amended state of a cannabis plant isn't to grow giant mutant flowers like heads of broccoli. Normally the flowers are very sparse, thing and small things spread out all over a plant, not this "it's almost entirely flower by weight" modern cannabis, and especially not high THC cannabis.
posted by loquacious at 9:20 AM on November 11, 2018 [5 favorites]
I'm well aware of all of that...it's great fun, to geek-out on your indoor pot garden
But most of these elaborate techniques were initially developed by necesseity because cultivation had to be done covertly...in the 90s, when wholesale marijuana could be sold for the same price per gram as gold, home growers could easily afford to run 20kw of lighting, CO2 supplementation, etc...it was high-risk/high reward.
Today, however, if you live a in low/no-risk legal environment, it's not really necessary to keep it hidden if you are obeying the plant count rules...so why not just grow it outdoors & organically without the expense & carbon footprint? It's easier & much cheaper to work with nature, than against it.
With access to quality seeds or clone stock, a first timer can quite easily grow centerfold-quality buds their very first harvest, without CO2 supplementation.
posted by littlejohnnyjewel at 9:53 AM on November 11, 2018 [4 favorites]
But most of these elaborate techniques were initially developed by necesseity because cultivation had to be done covertly...in the 90s, when wholesale marijuana could be sold for the same price per gram as gold, home growers could easily afford to run 20kw of lighting, CO2 supplementation, etc...it was high-risk/high reward.
Today, however, if you live a in low/no-risk legal environment, it's not really necessary to keep it hidden if you are obeying the plant count rules...so why not just grow it outdoors & organically without the expense & carbon footprint? It's easier & much cheaper to work with nature, than against it.
With access to quality seeds or clone stock, a first timer can quite easily grow centerfold-quality buds their very first harvest, without CO2 supplementation.
posted by littlejohnnyjewel at 9:53 AM on November 11, 2018 [4 favorites]
I grow a lot and keep waiting for a raid on my place. They’re going to be really disappointed in my lovely stash of tomato seedlings. I like to think that when Minnesota eventually legalizes I can go into business raising seedlings.
posted by misterpatrick at 10:52 AM on November 11, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by misterpatrick at 10:52 AM on November 11, 2018 [2 favorites]
Joe Lstiburek is an international treasure.
posted by meinvt at 10:55 AM on November 11, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by meinvt at 10:55 AM on November 11, 2018 [2 favorites]
Well, this just makes me more depressed. Our home state (ND) was the only one that turned down legalization this time around. Mrs Ber suffers from glaucoma and clinical depression, medical marijuana only covers the former and even then this state still hasn't implemented MM even though it was passed in 2016. We're just an hour away from Canada but no way am I risking bringing any across the border.
So like I said, all this just makes me more depressed.
posted by Ber at 11:20 AM on November 11, 2018 [1 favorite]
So like I said, all this just makes me more depressed.
posted by Ber at 11:20 AM on November 11, 2018 [1 favorite]
Cannabis responds especially vigorously to CO2 amendments, especially when we're talking about sealed-room indoor grows where ambient CO2 may plummet.
As a friend was dipping into this hobby 2 years ago I opined, "This hobby will consume every discretionary dollar you want to throw at it." and also that I've seen -- good genetics -- with minimal effort just keeping the hydro nutes from drying out, turn out quite respectable bud, so optimizing for the last 10% might not be worth the expense and effort.
With that said, there's a couple of raspberry pi based garden controllers that look interesting.
posted by mikelieman at 12:59 PM on November 11, 2018 [1 favorite]
As a friend was dipping into this hobby 2 years ago I opined, "This hobby will consume every discretionary dollar you want to throw at it." and also that I've seen -- good genetics -- with minimal effort just keeping the hydro nutes from drying out, turn out quite respectable bud, so optimizing for the last 10% might not be worth the expense and effort.
With that said, there's a couple of raspberry pi based garden controllers that look interesting.
posted by mikelieman at 12:59 PM on November 11, 2018 [1 favorite]
not this "it's almost entirely flower by weight" modern cannabis, and especially not high THC cannabis.
One of the things I'm looking forward to the most from widespread recreational marijuana legalization is being able to get regular Grandpa 1960's weed.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 1:04 PM on November 11, 2018 [8 favorites]
One of the things I'm looking forward to the most from widespread recreational marijuana legalization is being able to get regular Grandpa 1960's weed.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 1:04 PM on November 11, 2018 [8 favorites]
Count me in as a pretty serious gardening nerd who doesn’t see the appeal. If good weed were as hard to get as a perfect summer tomato maybe I’d feel differently? Instead I’ve routinely got tomato and basil starts under a “Purple Haze” branded grow lamp, because Colorado.
posted by deludingmyself at 1:06 PM on November 11, 2018
posted by deludingmyself at 1:06 PM on November 11, 2018
posted by Monday, stony Monday
What, you couldn't have waited a day to post this?
posted by elsietheeel at 1:46 PM on November 11, 2018 [4 favorites]
What, you couldn't have waited a day to post this?
posted by elsietheeel at 1:46 PM on November 11, 2018 [4 favorites]
One of the things I'm looking forward to the most from widespread recreational marijuana legalization is being able to get regular Grandpa 1960's weed.
Down to seeds and stems again blues - Commander Cody and his Lost Planet Airmen
posted by mikelieman at 2:09 PM on November 11, 2018 [1 favorite]
Down to seeds and stems again blues - Commander Cody and his Lost Planet Airmen
posted by mikelieman at 2:09 PM on November 11, 2018 [1 favorite]
The expense of the hydro is what puts me off indoor grows. It is so easy to grow outdoors as long as you place them according to the mature size of the plant. I don’t even use fertilizer
posted by saucysault at 6:47 PM on November 11, 2018
posted by saucysault at 6:47 PM on November 11, 2018
The expense of the hydro is what puts me off indoor grows.
Ebb/Flow is pretty cheap.
posted by mikelieman at 7:34 PM on November 11, 2018 [1 favorite]
Ebb/Flow is pretty cheap.
posted by mikelieman at 7:34 PM on November 11, 2018 [1 favorite]
Lol, sorry, hydro=electricity. I was complaining about the cost of electricity (I’m rural so my electricity costs almost a thousand a month as it is due to delivery charges).
posted by saucysault at 1:04 AM on November 12, 2018
posted by saucysault at 1:04 AM on November 12, 2018
It is possible to get good results using substrate and softpots, fluorescents at 18/6 for vegging, and a single 400W light set to 12/12 for flowering. You don’t have to go hydro with its attendant mess, leak perils and humidity. Panda plastic (plastic sheeting that’s white on one side and black on the other) together with a staple gun and some tape, plus some basic ventilation, and you can prep a space in no time. It’s really not rocket science. Hydro stores stock good lines of nutes, and have friendly staff who’ll answer any question. I’ve a setup in a small extra bedroom which has been reliably producing for over a decade with minimal gardener input beyond watering and trimming; with a single ceiling exhaust from the hardware store and a small fan for circulation everybody’s happy without a trace of mold. You just need to mind the temps and keep things clean.
Most discussions overcomplicate the process or insist that expensive equipment be employed in order to produce good weed. Not true. I get phenomenal results with minimal tech beyond a couple of timers, one exhaust fan and a window a/c unit in summer.
Added bonus: just being in a bright room full of happy green things effectively treats the seasonal affective disorder which inevitably sets in around this time of year here in snow country, and my regular houseplants benefit from occasional visits to “the spa.” Plus I’ve an endless supply of fresh kitchen herbs. The impact on our power bill is appreciable but not overwhelming.
posted by kinnakeet at 2:00 AM on November 12, 2018 [2 favorites]
Most discussions overcomplicate the process or insist that expensive equipment be employed in order to produce good weed. Not true. I get phenomenal results with minimal tech beyond a couple of timers, one exhaust fan and a window a/c unit in summer.
Added bonus: just being in a bright room full of happy green things effectively treats the seasonal affective disorder which inevitably sets in around this time of year here in snow country, and my regular houseplants benefit from occasional visits to “the spa.” Plus I’ve an endless supply of fresh kitchen herbs. The impact on our power bill is appreciable but not overwhelming.
posted by kinnakeet at 2:00 AM on November 12, 2018 [2 favorites]
kinnakeet: "You don’t have to go hydro with its attendant mess"
HYDRO in a lot of places in Canada is how we refer to electrical power (my electrical utility for example is called BC Hydro). It's the cost per KWh that saucycault was referring to as too expensive. A 400W light burning 12 hours a day is 4.8KWhs; that's a double-double every day.
posted by Mitheral at 8:36 AM on November 12, 2018 [2 favorites]
HYDRO in a lot of places in Canada is how we refer to electrical power (my electrical utility for example is called BC Hydro). It's the cost per KWh that saucycault was referring to as too expensive. A 400W light burning 12 hours a day is 4.8KWhs; that's a double-double every day.
posted by Mitheral at 8:36 AM on November 12, 2018 [2 favorites]
If you ever want to know the definitively correct way to build a structure for energy use and durability, Joe Lstiburek and Building Science Corp are the people to ask. Thanks for posting this article, I hadn't previously considered the challenges around sophisticated indoor grow ops.
posted by ChrisHartley at 9:50 AM on November 12, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by ChrisHartley at 9:50 AM on November 12, 2018 [1 favorite]
Wow, had no idea things got this elaborate. At the same time, I've smoked weed grown in some dude's apartment closet and it got the job done just fine. It's cool that it can be a relatively low maintenance plant or some hyper intensive project for more extreme versions.
posted by GoblinHoney at 2:40 PM on November 12, 2018
posted by GoblinHoney at 2:40 PM on November 12, 2018
I'm almost grateful that the old joke about Marlboro Greens is now inevitable - the second Illinois--they'll probably be first, although it could just as easily be some other big midwestern grain-producing state or southern tobacco state--deregulates far enough, the bulk of the industry will go to bigass mono-cropped fields like most of the rest of large-scale ag in this country.
And sadly that's probably better in at least one way than what's happening now, since most current large-scale weed production is environmentally only a couple steps above bitcoin mining.
posted by aspersioncast at 10:10 PM on November 12, 2018 [1 favorite]
And sadly that's probably better in at least one way than what's happening now, since most current large-scale weed production is environmentally only a couple steps above bitcoin mining.
posted by aspersioncast at 10:10 PM on November 12, 2018 [1 favorite]
IE: Ain't no one sneaking into national parks to grow corn.
posted by Mitheral at 10:23 PM on November 13, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by Mitheral at 10:23 PM on November 13, 2018 [1 favorite]
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posted by zamboni at 7:42 AM on November 11, 2018 [2 favorites]