“We can’t be sued because no one believed us anyway”
November 13, 2018 9:13 AM Subscribe
Wells Fargo says its promises to restore consumer trust were just ‘puffery.’ But they look more like lies. (SL LATimes by Michael Hiltzik)
Fucking infuriating. To go from bloviating acting like it's genuine to acting like nobody could possibly take your bullshit as anything but is some real late-stage capitalism gymnastics, holy shit. This is the sort of shit a company does when they know they cannot possibly face real consequences for their actions.
"But we’ve all become inured to outright lying by businesses and politicians. If there’s any lesson to be learned from the deception practiced in both spheres in recent years, it’s that the days of innocent “puffery” are over, and our lives and livelihoods hang in the balance when we don’t hold business and political leaders strictly to account. It’s past time for the pendulum to swing back toward truth."
It may be past time for that swing, but too fucking bad. The bob has left the bob entirely and will never be able to swing towards truth again, it's flying off into space, not even orbit, just an unnatural straight line through the universe getting as far away from truth as it possibly can.
posted by GoblinHoney at 9:20 AM on November 13, 2018 [6 favorites]
"But we’ve all become inured to outright lying by businesses and politicians. If there’s any lesson to be learned from the deception practiced in both spheres in recent years, it’s that the days of innocent “puffery” are over, and our lives and livelihoods hang in the balance when we don’t hold business and political leaders strictly to account. It’s past time for the pendulum to swing back toward truth."
It may be past time for that swing, but too fucking bad. The bob has left the bob entirely and will never be able to swing towards truth again, it's flying off into space, not even orbit, just an unnatural straight line through the universe getting as far away from truth as it possibly can.
posted by GoblinHoney at 9:20 AM on November 13, 2018 [6 favorites]
They're trying to sell this to shareholders? Woof. Good luck with that.
posted by Etrigan at 9:22 AM on November 13, 2018 [7 favorites]
posted by Etrigan at 9:22 AM on November 13, 2018 [7 favorites]
The bob has left the bob entirely and will never be able to swing towards truth again, it's flying off into space, not even orbit, just an unnatural straight line through the universe getting as far away from truth as it possibly can.
The struggle isn't about getting capitalists to tell the truth (they won't), but by making it dangerous, expensive and legally painful for them to attempt to profit from their lies.
Things are bad right now, but they were also bad - really, really bad, shellacked in fatcat bullshit from top to bottom - during the first Gilded Age, too. Roll up your sleeves, sharpen the axe, and swing hard for the sneering face below the top hat.
posted by ryanshepard at 9:24 AM on November 13, 2018 [16 favorites]
The struggle isn't about getting capitalists to tell the truth (they won't), but by making it dangerous, expensive and legally painful for them to attempt to profit from their lies.
Things are bad right now, but they were also bad - really, really bad, shellacked in fatcat bullshit from top to bottom - during the first Gilded Age, too. Roll up your sleeves, sharpen the axe, and swing hard for the sneering face below the top hat.
posted by ryanshepard at 9:24 AM on November 13, 2018 [16 favorites]
I finally got sick of receving credit card statements for a Wells Fargo account I never opened, so I called them to tell them to stop, that I never opened an account with them, I didn't want the card, and I've never, ever had any other type of account with Wells Fargo.
They were sure I was a victim of online fraud.
I was kind of in agreement, just I knew who was at the bottom of it.
If they could stop sending me bogus, "We made an error in your student loan bill, here's a check for $1.10" letters, I'd be over the moon (I, I don't have any student loans..).
I'm not one to promote violence, but I've never wanted to throw a brick through a glass window so badly, and the local WF has many, large windows in their main branch in town.
posted by alex_skazat at 9:24 AM on November 13, 2018 [3 favorites]
They were sure I was a victim of online fraud.
I was kind of in agreement, just I knew who was at the bottom of it.
If they could stop sending me bogus, "We made an error in your student loan bill, here's a check for $1.10" letters, I'd be over the moon (I, I don't have any student loans..).
I'm not one to promote violence, but I've never wanted to throw a brick through a glass window so badly, and the local WF has many, large windows in their main branch in town.
posted by alex_skazat at 9:24 AM on November 13, 2018 [3 favorites]
I cannot fathom why people still voluntarily do business with Wells Fargo, or any for-profit bank for that matter. There are so many credit unions around, at least where I live.
posted by scottatdrake at 9:28 AM on November 13, 2018 [11 favorites]
posted by scottatdrake at 9:28 AM on November 13, 2018 [11 favorites]
Looking for a modest mortgage earlier this year I was referred by a friend to her broker, and should have said "wait, Wells Fargo? LOL no" but with a million other things on my mind I applied for and got a mortgage from them.
A few months later I checked my Chase bank statements to see if the automatic payments I'd set up were being debited correctly, to find that they didn't appear at all!
Panicking at the thought that I, a first-time homeowner, had already gotten behind on my mortgage I called the broker who set it up, who said "huh, weird! but once you closed on the loan it's off my desk" and told me to call customer service.
Customer service said "those payments are being debited from your Wells Fargo checking account."
I explained that I only have one checking account, the one at Chase from which no payments are being taken. They took some convincing but said they'd look into it and call me back.
The broker called me first. He'd "called a guy he knows" who told him they'd been debiting someone else's account to pay my mortgage.
Customer service called back to say, uh, there'd been an irregularity but everything was corrected now and the missing payments would be debited from my account and retroactively re-applied to my mortgage as on-time. And the account that had already been debited would be made whole.
But was its holder notified? How did they not notice $1500 monthly debits? Does that account's holder... not know it exists?
In summary, Wells Fargo are shady as fuck.
posted by Now I'm Prune Tracy! at 9:48 AM on November 13, 2018 [32 favorites]
A few months later I checked my Chase bank statements to see if the automatic payments I'd set up were being debited correctly, to find that they didn't appear at all!
Panicking at the thought that I, a first-time homeowner, had already gotten behind on my mortgage I called the broker who set it up, who said "huh, weird! but once you closed on the loan it's off my desk" and told me to call customer service.
Customer service said "those payments are being debited from your Wells Fargo checking account."
I explained that I only have one checking account, the one at Chase from which no payments are being taken. They took some convincing but said they'd look into it and call me back.
The broker called me first. He'd "called a guy he knows" who told him they'd been debiting someone else's account to pay my mortgage.
Customer service called back to say, uh, there'd been an irregularity but everything was corrected now and the missing payments would be debited from my account and retroactively re-applied to my mortgage as on-time. And the account that had already been debited would be made whole.
But was its holder notified? How did they not notice $1500 monthly debits? Does that account's holder... not know it exists?
In summary, Wells Fargo are shady as fuck.
posted by Now I'm Prune Tracy! at 9:48 AM on November 13, 2018 [32 favorites]
"Puffery" is the most ridiculous defense standard. I can understand if it's fantastic hyperbole ("Red Bull gives you wings"), or a joke, but words mean things. You say things in your advertisement because you want consumers to believe them.
I wish even one judge would say, "why would you say this if you didn't think you'd be believed?" Why should "advertisers always lie" be considered a legal guideline giving consent?
posted by explosion at 10:28 AM on November 13, 2018 [7 favorites]
I wish even one judge would say, "why would you say this if you didn't think you'd be believed?" Why should "advertisers always lie" be considered a legal guideline giving consent?
posted by explosion at 10:28 AM on November 13, 2018 [7 favorites]
I cannot fathom why people still voluntarily do business with Wells Fargo, or any for-profit bank for that matter. There are so many credit unions around, at least where I live.
Last year my employer switched our 401k provider from Prudential over to WellsFargo. A lot of people dropped out of the 401k because of WellsFargo and switched to an IRA through their own bank/credit union. (My employer only matches if we have a good quarter and we never have a good quarter...)
posted by nathan_teske at 10:38 AM on November 13, 2018
Last year my employer switched our 401k provider from Prudential over to WellsFargo. A lot of people dropped out of the 401k because of WellsFargo and switched to an IRA through their own bank/credit union. (My employer only matches if we have a good quarter and we never have a good quarter...)
posted by nathan_teske at 10:38 AM on November 13, 2018
Now I'm Prune Tracy!: "they'd been debiting someone else's account to pay my mortgage."
Jeez... if only you knew WHO the other account belonged to before you asked about the correction. I mean, a regular Joe, you'd go to hell if you let him pay for your house. But if the account belonged to say some slimeball pharma CEO or Wall Street exec, etc., letting them pay for YOUR mortgage is just doing God's work.
posted by caution live frogs at 11:29 AM on November 13, 2018 [2 favorites]
Jeez... if only you knew WHO the other account belonged to before you asked about the correction. I mean, a regular Joe, you'd go to hell if you let him pay for your house. But if the account belonged to say some slimeball pharma CEO or Wall Street exec, etc., letting them pay for YOUR mortgage is just doing God's work.
posted by caution live frogs at 11:29 AM on November 13, 2018 [2 favorites]
Another example of epistemological decay. We live in an information-rich environment - but the quailty of the information is so low as to render it useless and utterly unreliable. This is the source of a growing anxiety.
posted by Jode at 12:09 PM on November 13, 2018 [6 favorites]
posted by Jode at 12:09 PM on November 13, 2018 [6 favorites]
Closing my Wells Fargo account was one of the highlights of this year. I only used the account for occasionally receiving international money transfers, which small local banks sometimes have trouble with especially when some other currency is involved. But Wells Fargo is also kind of crap at it.
Wells Fargo stole ~$10 from me as follows:
On my birthday, someone fraudulently made purchases with my credit card. I had never used this credit card or exposed it to any computer etc. (It was kept in a safe.) Wells Fargo detected the fraud and reversed the charges. Since I kept the "minimum" account balance (an absurd $1500), this meant the account was below the minimum briefly due to fraud. So Wells Fargo billed me at the end of the month for going below the minimum. The fee came out of my account. I promptly added more money to it, but it had again gone below the minimum, so I got a second fee the next month. At this point I called customer service, they were able to reverse one fee, but not the other one.
While their high-profile villany makes the news, their bread and butter is nickle-and-diming their customers in shady ways.
posted by joeyh at 12:37 PM on November 13, 2018 [11 favorites]
Wells Fargo stole ~$10 from me as follows:
On my birthday, someone fraudulently made purchases with my credit card. I had never used this credit card or exposed it to any computer etc. (It was kept in a safe.) Wells Fargo detected the fraud and reversed the charges. Since I kept the "minimum" account balance (an absurd $1500), this meant the account was below the minimum briefly due to fraud. So Wells Fargo billed me at the end of the month for going below the minimum. The fee came out of my account. I promptly added more money to it, but it had again gone below the minimum, so I got a second fee the next month. At this point I called customer service, they were able to reverse one fee, but not the other one.
While their high-profile villany makes the news, their bread and butter is nickle-and-diming their customers in shady ways.
posted by joeyh at 12:37 PM on November 13, 2018 [11 favorites]
Re: nickel-and-diming, one wonders if Wells Fargo is the Verizon of banking, or is Verizon the Wells Fargo of telecomm?
I know everyone hates Comcast but I used to work for Verizon and I currently have Comcast internet that I actually am rather pleased with. Lemme tell you, Comcast ain't got shit on Verizon for shady billing practices.
I'm in the process of moving my Wells Fargo accounts to a combination of local and federal credit unions. I only have Wells Fargo at all because I used to live in a remote area and the only bank was Wachovia which became Wells Fargo following the financial crisis.
posted by glonous keming at 1:23 PM on November 13, 2018 [2 favorites]
I know everyone hates Comcast but I used to work for Verizon and I currently have Comcast internet that I actually am rather pleased with. Lemme tell you, Comcast ain't got shit on Verizon for shady billing practices.
I'm in the process of moving my Wells Fargo accounts to a combination of local and federal credit unions. I only have Wells Fargo at all because I used to live in a remote area and the only bank was Wachovia which became Wells Fargo following the financial crisis.
posted by glonous keming at 1:23 PM on November 13, 2018 [2 favorites]
"Things are bad right now, but they were also bad - really, really bad, shellacked in fatcat bullshit from top to bottom - during the first Gilded Age, too. Roll up your sleeves, sharpen the axe, and swing hard for the sneering face below the top hat."
This means a lot to me, I don't look forward to much, but if I must be alive, I hope this comes to pass before I go.
posted by GoblinHoney at 1:43 PM on November 13, 2018 [6 favorites]
This means a lot to me, I don't look forward to much, but if I must be alive, I hope this comes to pass before I go.
posted by GoblinHoney at 1:43 PM on November 13, 2018 [6 favorites]
I just got back from my first trip to the US in ~17 years and was excited to find I had been think-pronouncing Verizon all wrong. USA, will your wonders never cease.
posted by biffa at 2:15 PM on November 13, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by biffa at 2:15 PM on November 13, 2018 [1 favorite]
Was it "veh-rizz-on?"
posted by grumpybear69 at 2:55 PM on November 13, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by grumpybear69 at 2:55 PM on November 13, 2018 [1 favorite]
The days that I severed by commercial relationships with Wells Fargo (to switch to First Republic) and with AT&T (to switch to Sonic) were two of the happiest days of my life...
posted by PhineasGage at 2:58 PM on November 13, 2018
posted by PhineasGage at 2:58 PM on November 13, 2018
I've been calling another Yankee company 'Chick Filler'.
posted by emf at 4:43 PM on November 13, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by emf at 4:43 PM on November 13, 2018 [1 favorite]
I cannot fathom why people still voluntarily do business with Wells Fargo, or any for-profit bank for that matter. There are so many credit unions around, at least where I live.
Fun fact: if your credit is garbage, like mine is, most credit unions will turn their nose up at you. So instead I get to do business with an incredibly incompetent local for-profit bank.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 5:03 PM on November 13, 2018
Fun fact: if your credit is garbage, like mine is, most credit unions will turn their nose up at you. So instead I get to do business with an incredibly incompetent local for-profit bank.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 5:03 PM on November 13, 2018
I image that when Facebook ran the laughable ads claiming "...when this place does what it was built for, then we all get a little closer", their lawyers had already assured them this was just some generic, feel-good bullshit on which no reasonable investor would rely.
The stockholders are well aware what the place was "built for".
posted by she's not there at 6:27 PM on November 13, 2018
The stockholders are well aware what the place was "built for".
posted by she's not there at 6:27 PM on November 13, 2018
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