Dispatch from the Land of Enchantment

December 2, 2018 5:17 PM

New Mexico's statehood questioned during marriage license application in the District of Columbia.

The court clerk asked Dr. Gavin Clarkson, resident of New Mexico and recent Republican candidate for New Mexico secretary of state, for his "international" passport, as his "foreign" driver's license would not be acceptable as proof of identification. Clarkson and his fiancée protested to the clerk's supervisor, who also initially rejected the state-issued identification.

"We understand that a clerk in our Marriage Bureau made a mistake regarding New Mexico's 106-year history as a state," said Leah H. Gurowitz, director of media and public relations for D.C. Courts, in an email. "We very much regret the error and the slight delay it caused a New Mexico resident in applying for a DC marriage license."

posted by Iris Gambol (148 comments total)

From the Las Cruces Sun News article: Clarkson's wife, Marina, immigrated from Argentina in the 1990s, becoming a legal permanent resident and then a naturalized U.S. citizen. She speaks English fluently, though she has a slight accent. But the clerk complimented Clarkson, not Marina, on how well he spoke the language... Notably, Clarkson is also an enrolled member of the Choctaw Nation. If he'd shown that ID to the marriage bureau, he said, it could have cleared up the confusion over his identity.

"Apparently it would have been easier if I'd shown her my tribal ID," he said.
posted by Iris Gambol at 5:19 PM on December 2, 2018 [1 favorite]

Wait, they have a New Mexico now?

(This is a common problem, everyone who's lived in New Mexico has a story like this.)
posted by Nelson at 5:19 PM on December 2, 2018 [40 favorites]

Yep, covered in the link: Clarkson is not alone in his experience applying for a marriage license. In a regular feature dubbed "One of Our 50 is Missing," New Mexico Magazine for years has documented with comedic flair New Mexicans' frustrations and trials in trying to persuade non-New Mexicans across the country — and sometimes the world — that New Mexico is in fact one of the 50 U.S. states.
posted by Iris Gambol at 5:21 PM on December 2, 2018 [12 favorites]

(It was interesting to me because this occurred at the D.C. Marriage Bureau, and the couple objected three times to more than one employee before the matter was resolved.)
posted by Iris Gambol at 5:24 PM on December 2, 2018 [6 favorites]

"What will you do with a geography degree?" they asked me.
posted by 4ster at 5:26 PM on December 2, 2018 [71 favorites]

People in New Hampshire or New York would have this problem if anyone in the US knew where Hampshire or York are. see also the persistent belief that Newark is where Noah landed.
posted by GenjiandProust at 5:27 PM on December 2, 2018 [23 favorites]

Newark is where Noah landed

What a country!
posted by thelonius at 5:33 PM on December 2, 2018 [13 favorites]

What's funny is I heard the opposite of this where a person with a District of Colombia license was almost refused for something because the clerk zeroed in on "Columbia" and thought the person in question wasn't American.
posted by Homo neanderthalensis at 5:41 PM on December 2, 2018 [17 favorites]

"West Virginia."

"Okay, Virginia."

"No, West Virginia."

"Look, buddy, I don't care what part of Virginia. All I need is the name of the state."
posted by fantabulous timewaster at 5:42 PM on December 2, 2018 [58 favorites]

ah yes. i had this fight with the United States Post Office, once. they were convinced that the service had to be International, because "mexico."

not that NM itself is any great shakes when it comes to marriage licenses; i have a story about my experiences in that vein that i shall not tell now as i fear it would strain the limits of the comment box
posted by halation at 5:52 PM on December 2, 2018 [4 favorites]

DC isn't a state, or even part of a state. Therefore, it's not part of the United States. Why would they accept a foreign license?
posted by phooky at 5:55 PM on December 2, 2018 [20 favorites]

"West Virginia."

"Okay, Virginia."

"No, West Virginia."

Honest to fuck, my college roommate had to be shown proof that West Virginia was a state, and not just some people from the western part of Virginia being particular.
posted by tzikeh at 5:55 PM on December 2, 2018 [21 favorites]

i have a story about my experiences in that vein that i shall not tell now as i fear it would strain the limits of the comment box

Do it!
posted by sjswitzer at 5:59 PM on December 2, 2018 [9 favorites]

I confess I once made this mistake. I was the ED of a small non-profit, got an email asking what services we offered in New Mexico. I replied that we we're currently only US-based.

The reply sent back was not kind, as I well deserved.

In my defense, my mistake was being careless, not clueless. I skimmed through the email. I do known New Mexico is a state, honest!
posted by Frayed Knot at 6:00 PM on December 2, 2018 [5 favorites]

My college roommate had to be shown proof that West Virginia was a state, and not just some people from the western part of Virginia being particular.

I am a native Virginian, and I just realized that, thanks to West Virginia (the state), no one I have ever known has ever referred to the left part of the state as west Virginia. There is central Virginia, eastern Virginia, the Eastern Shore, northern Virginia, and southwest Virginia. That's it.
posted by 4ster at 6:04 PM on December 2, 2018 [20 favorites]

When we got pulled over on vacation in Nicaragua, the police officer's eyes nearly bugged out of his head when he read "COLUMBIA???" on my Canadian passport...

BRITISH Columbia...
posted by wats at 6:05 PM on December 2, 2018 [11 favorites]

i have a story about my experiences in that vein that i shall not tell now as i fear it would strain the limits of the comment box

Do it!

DOOOOO IIIIIIIT
posted by tzikeh at 6:12 PM on December 2, 2018 [10 favorites]

I was married in D.C. and I will tell you, I believe it. I’m cis white hetero and it took 3 trips to the marriage bureau. In DC, you need a syphillis test to get married (it doesn’t matter if it’s positive or negative) you just need it. I took the lab tests which said “RPR” and I had to go and get a letter from my doctor (even though *im* a doctor) to explain this is in fact a syphillis test. The third time I had to go back was over an old unpaid parking ticket that I had in fact paid, but I fucking repaid it, because it’s DC and I needed to get the license before the big day and I had lost many fights with the bureaucracy in DC previously and I knew where that glitch was headed.
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 6:14 PM on December 2, 2018 [28 favorites]

Heh. When my mom moved to New Mexico her dad was extremely worried about the exchange rate to pesos.
posted by forza at 6:34 PM on December 2, 2018 [6 favorites]

*deep inhale*
just monkeys in pants, don't expect too much
*slow exhale*
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 6:39 PM on December 2, 2018 [20 favorites]

I heard a similar story from a friend, he was waiting in line to get his license and over heard the argument that someone at the head of the line was having with the clerk who finally replied "I don't care if you are from new Mexico or old Mexico, you have to be from the USA to get a license!".
posted by 445supermag at 6:45 PM on December 2, 2018 [5 favorites]

And oh god, town offices. I've reached the point now where I find them sort of hilarious in their absurdity. Like, I can't even be mad anymore. What would be the point?
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 6:46 PM on December 2, 2018 [1 favorite]

I was married in D.C. and I will tell you, I believe it. I’m cis white hetero and it took 3 trips to the marriage bureau. In DC, you need a syphillis test to get married (it doesn’t matter if it’s positive or negative) you just need it.

Not anymore, that part of the law was repealed in 2008. They've streamlined the process, it's now easier than ever for people with syphilis to get married.
posted by peeedro at 6:47 PM on December 2, 2018 [53 favorites]

For a long time New Mexico had pretty fake looking IDs.
posted by jeffamaphone at 6:51 PM on December 2, 2018 [2 favorites]

thanks to West Virginia (the state), no one I have ever known has ever referred to the left part of the state as west Virginia

Unless maybe John Denver did in Country Roads. Opinions vary.
posted by selfmedicating at 6:53 PM on December 2, 2018 [6 favorites]

I had a thing going on with someone from Manchester, NH for a while, which gave me some insights into the rather odd way the state interpreted 'Live Free Or Die' when it came to things like liquor laws. (And being familiar with the originals of Manchester and Hampshire, I had opinions there too. But never mind that.)

I got carded one evening on the way into a bar, and proffered my UK passport. The - well, monkey in pants isn't too far from the facts - doorman looked at it for a while, then said "Oh, you're Irish. Cool."

Which puzzled me briefly, until I looked at the passport and realised that he'd latched onto the only part of the full country name that, presumably, he recognised. And I was, after all, a citizen of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

I also spent a lot of time in Boston, where nobody mistook me for an Irishman, but it was a blast except for the driving. I can totes report that it's a lot more fun than the original Boston, with which I am also familiar.
posted by Devonian at 6:54 PM on December 2, 2018 [16 favorites]

New Mexico Magazine for years has documented with comedic flair New Mexicans' frustrations and trials in trying to persuade non-New Mexicans across the country — and sometimes the world — that New Mexico is in fact one of the 50 U.S. states.

Is this like the maps without New Zealand thing, or the Great Finland Lie?
posted by rokusan at 6:55 PM on December 2, 2018 [5 favorites]

Yeah, they were going to make me take the road test in California when I went to get a license due to the fact that I was international.

A high school acquaintance asked if I spoke "Mexican".

Best one though was a few years ago when I was rolling over my 401Ks. The guy on the phone asked me my state and I said "NM". He paused and then said "Northern Minnesota"? Best part was when he told me he was in Arizona.
posted by jenh526 at 7:01 PM on December 2, 2018 [16 favorites]

Many years ago when I worked at a truck stop on the Massachusetts Turnpike a truck driver asked me where New England was.
posted by bondcliff at 7:03 PM on December 2, 2018 [5 favorites]

Ha ha, very funny, I would’ve fired or reassigned the clerk on the spot. “What OTHER mistakes are you making that don’t go viral?”
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 7:12 PM on December 2, 2018 [13 favorites]

Honest question: I know it's a tired old joke that Americans are bad at geography, but usually we think of non-US geography that's the challenge. How is it such a common thing that many Americans can't recognize some of the states in their own country? Isn't this the sort of thing you would learn in school at the age of, like, 9? And would encounter throughout your life, even just in passing in popular media? One of the most popular TV dramas of all time, Breaking Bad, is set in New Mexico!

How does an American reach adulthood being unaware that New Mexico and West Virginia are US states?
posted by good in a vacuum at 7:21 PM on December 2, 2018 [21 favorites]

I am a native Virginian, and I just realized that, thanks to West Virginia (the state)
Weren't the WV counties referred to the Northern part of Virginia back when they decided to leave?
posted by 922257033c4a0f3cecdbd819a46d626999d1af4a at 7:24 PM on December 2, 2018

It’s a pretty extreme example to not know about New Mexico.

But yes, Americans are also very bad at American geography. Most people would be unable to fill in a map with the state names, for example.
posted by vogon_poet at 7:27 PM on December 2, 2018 [2 favorites]

Disappointed that this was not resolved by singing Fifty Nifty United States. Alabama Alaska Arizona Arkansas California Colorado Connecticut (doo-dee-doo)....
posted by basalganglia at 7:32 PM on December 2, 2018 [8 favorites]

Weren't the WV counties referred to the Northern part of Virginia back when they decided to leave?

I believe they were referred to as the northwestern part
posted by 4ster at 7:33 PM on December 2, 2018

eh...DC residents have to deal with this kind of ridiculousness all the time. I will play a tiny violin for those of you with full citizenship and voting rights.
posted by jindc at 7:37 PM on December 2, 2018 [17 favorites]

Nelson: This is a common problem, everyone who's lived in New Mexico has a story like this.

Which is why the bumper stickers "New Mexico: It Ain't New and It Ain't Mexico" and "New Mexico: No Passport Required" are fairly common in gift shops around the state.

My parents-in-law, who also live here, were talking with someone in Louisiana about where they were from, and the local looked at them a bit odd when they said New Mexico, as if he were wondering what happened to the old one. "It's a state, west of Texas and east of Arizona" might help those who are confused. Heck, we're one of the four states in the Four Corners! And we have the oldest capitol in the U.S., with Santa Fe pre-dating Boston by 20 years (1610, versus 1630), even though New Mexico wasn't a state until 1912.

But that's all history and geography, which are not always in folks minds.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:37 PM on December 2, 2018 [8 favorites]

How is it such a common thing that many Americans can't recognize some of the states in their own country?

This particular embarrassment is especially sharp because people with DC licenses have been (2014) known (2017) to have trouble checking in at US airports and buying beer in other states.
posted by fedward at 7:37 PM on December 2, 2018 [5 favorites]

DC isn't a state, or even part of a state. Therefore, it's not part of the United States.

Maybe you think you're funny, but too many people think that's actually true.
posted by fedward at 7:39 PM on December 2, 2018 [12 favorites]

Including Congress. Much like with Puerto Rico, Guam, American Samoa, the US Virgin Islands, and the Northern Mariana Islands, DC's residents are US citizens who have no representation in the US congress.

Not to suggest that your problems, New Mexicans and West Virginians, are not annoying to deal with, but y'all could have it worse.
posted by tobascodagama at 7:59 PM on December 2, 2018 [9 favorites]

filthy light thief, I see your Santa Fe, and raise you a San Juan (founded 1521).
posted by Iris Gambol at 8:01 PM on December 2, 2018 [8 favorites]

Las Cruces, NM, hometown. Lived there for 29 years. Would still live there if I could have found a decent job there in the mid-90s. Heart of green chile country, a short drive to White Sands National Monument, with dramatic mountains rising up east of town unlike anywhere else I've ever lived.

Just last week I was asked in my current living area of far eastern WA if I was one of those illegals when I mentioned I was from New Mexico. At the age of 50, I just sigh and move along. There are other battles to fight.
posted by hippybear at 8:06 PM on December 2, 2018 [5 favorites]

How is it such a common thing that many Americans can't recognize some of the states in their own country? Isn't this the sort of thing you would learn in school at the age of, like, 9?

Back in the 90s, I knew a guy who in Usenet debates, used to insult people by saying in mock pity "You are after all, a product of the American educational system." Sometimes it's hard to disagree with that snide and contemptuous sentiment.
posted by happyroach at 8:12 PM on December 2, 2018 [13 favorites]

“How is it such a common thing that many Americans can't recognize some of the states in their own country?”

I mean, in their defence there are a stupidly large number of them. There are what, 50 states, plus Washington D.C., plus heck-if-I-know how many territories? I could get superior about how I know the names of all the provinces and territories in my country, but there are a paltry thirteen of them - I’m playing on easy mode.
posted by Secret Sparrow at 8:14 PM on December 2, 2018 [5 favorites]

How is it such a common thing that many Americans can't recognize some of the states in their own country?

I find there's an east-west divide about being able to place states, too. West of the Mississippi, people who grew up there can easily put names on all the squares but struggle with the squiggles and the tiny bits. And vice versa.

The US is a big place and it's fairly secluded from itself by region in strange ways. I'm not surprised that people can't list all the states or put names to the shapes on a map. I'm always surprised when someone argues with me about whether or not the state I'm from actually exists. Because, like, what is the motivation to lie about that? To what purpose?
posted by hippybear at 8:17 PM on December 2, 2018 [4 favorites]

We get about 900,000 cruise ship visitors per year stopping in my small Southeast Alaska town and every local shopkeeper I know has been asked if they "take American money here." There are perennial jokes about issuing our own local currency that has a one-way exchange only but as far as I know nobody has resorted to that yet. (By and large these are the same people who get off a cruise ship, look up from the dock to see snow on the top of nearby mountains, and want to know what their current elevation is.)

And even that is not as bad as the people who pulled up in front of Lake Michigan and asked my sister, in surprised tones, which ocean they were seeing. As a nation we are shockingly ignorant about the world in which we live.
posted by Nerd of the North at 8:19 PM on December 2, 2018 [24 favorites]

I’ve done a fair amount of tourism/arts work in Southwest Virginia. My extended family also lives there. The nuance required to get someone to hear and understand Southwest Virginia and not south West Virginia (and get the difference) is serious business.
posted by thivaia at 8:20 PM on December 2, 2018 [5 favorites]

Don't even get me started on how that one Journey song talks about South Detroit like it even actually exists!
posted by hippybear at 8:21 PM on December 2, 2018 [8 favorites]

My brother got in trouble a long time ago, and when the family made plans to go to Hawai'i he had to advise his parole officer (in Maryland) that he was leaving the state for a short time. Said officer wondered about Hawai'i -- "Is that part of America? A state? Really?" But this wasn't that long ago.

How is it such a common thing that many Americans can't recognize some of the states in their own country?

I love maps and can't understand why so many of my fellow citizens can't/won't read them, and find them off-putting and a challenge. And really, people -- don't you look at your quarters? The US Mint has been trying to educate you about the other states since 1999.
posted by Rash at 8:37 PM on December 2, 2018 [11 favorites]

Just last week I was asked in my current living area of far eastern WA

AKA Maryland.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 8:40 PM on December 2, 2018 [4 favorites]

*puts on the swish* Oh, honey. Let me tell you, this place is as far from being Mary as just about anyplace, anywhere. I'm closer to that guy with the obnoxious christmas display in a previous post than I am to any gay bar worthy of being a gay bar.

*takes off the swish and takes a swig from his Natty Ice*
posted by hippybear at 8:44 PM on December 2, 2018 [7 favorites]

To refine my question: I can understand how an American might struggle to locate New Mexico or New Hampshire on an unmarked map. You have a lot of states.

But to have never even heard of the state of New Mexico, or West Virginia? Even if you don't live near them?

Leaving aside the US education system, it just strains belief that people can live for decades in the US and not somehow acquire this knowledge through osmosis. I mean, even I've acquired this knowledge from watching American TV and movies, and I'm not American.
posted by good in a vacuum at 8:51 PM on December 2, 2018 [16 favorites]

I have never heard of this and I'm finding it super depressing. To be fair I probably cannot completely fill out a US state map, but I have absolutely heard of all of them and can tell you what is or isn't a state. I learned all of this school and I had to pass tests and stuff to get out of school. And then subsequently I ... heard things, about places. Is everyone just dropping out of society or what?
posted by bleep at 8:59 PM on December 2, 2018 [6 favorites]

It's also terrifying how we rely on the rules of bureaucracy smiling on us in order to live our lives, but the rules are just implemented by whoever, based on whatever they feel like doing, and if they don't feel like doing it, they don't have to, for whatever nonsense made-up reason they come up with. Mm yeah I don't want you to have a marriage license because uh, you don't come from a state. Yep. Nope. That's the reason. It's not a state. Sorry. Bye.
posted by bleep at 9:03 PM on December 2, 2018 [5 favorites]

Do it!

suffice it to say: they made such a hash of things that, when we divorced some years later, it was not entirely clear from a legal standpoint that we ever had in fact been married in the first place
posted by halation at 9:05 PM on December 2, 2018 [36 favorites]

I can absolutely name, place and recite something - at least the capitol - about all the states, but I'm not overwhelmed by trying to survive. I've known lots of people in the places I've lived (FL, MA, CA) that just can't be bothered because it's not getting them through the next month with their family so its just not a thing to care about and record.

Don't blame them - there's a ton of stuff about the things they do that I wouldn't know or give a damn about because it doesn't get me through my next month either.
posted by drewbage1847 at 9:06 PM on December 2, 2018 [8 favorites]

Everyone asking about why Americans can't name or place the states -- they cut Geography from the public-school curriculum ages ago to make way for more standardized testing. Ages ago. It's a tragedy.
posted by tzikeh at 9:14 PM on December 2, 2018 [11 favorites]

So the answer is yes people are dropping out of society and society is dropping people out.
posted by bleep at 9:17 PM on December 2, 2018 [3 favorites]

The actual answer is that New Mexico basically won WW2 for the US but people don't even know it exists despite a Boys II Men video being filmed there and Billy The Kid (Young Guns! Young Guns II!) and Roswell and the Very Large Array radio satellite made famous in Contact and and and and

And that the US public school education system has been failing students for generations.
posted by hippybear at 9:30 PM on December 2, 2018 [8 favorites]

Unless maybe John Denver did in Country Roads. Opinions vary.

Sorry for this derail but OMG. I had no idea the song was about Clopper Road until now. I drive that road regularly! It was also where that damn deer hit me! It is indeed windy, but alas only a bit of it now could be considered a "country road" that looks beautiful covered in snow.
posted by numaner at 9:39 PM on December 2, 2018 [3 favorites]

None of us is as dumb as all of us, but once in a while somebody makes a run for it.
posted by rhizome at 9:39 PM on December 2, 2018 [36 favorites]

Don't even get me started on how that one Journey song talks about South Detroit like it even actually exists!

Even in this terrible timeline, Windsor exists.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 9:43 PM on December 2, 2018 [12 favorites]

Don't blame them - there's a ton of stuff about the things they do that I wouldn't know or give a damn about because it doesn't get me through my next month either.

By recognizing and acknowledging your ignorance and refusing to judge people from that position of ignorance you have already completely differentiated yourself from (most of) the people we are talking about here.

Although the discussion has typically begun to wander a bit, the subject of the post isn't just about ignorance. It's about ignorance in the hands of bureaucrats who have the power to truly impact our lives and who wield that power without curiosity or self-reflection. People who aren't just making mistakes, they are doubling down, and insisting that their obviously clueless ideas must be true, because the alternative - that they were wrong about something - is truly more unthinkable than the truth.

So I do blame them, actually. Not for being ignorant. We're all ignorant. I blame them for weaponizing their ignorance.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 9:48 PM on December 2, 2018 [9 favorites]

This is what teaching for the test(s) will get you. If it's not on a standardized test that determines which college you'll go to or whether your school will be funded, good luck.

To be generous, a lot of this information is fairly abstract to a lot of people if they never go there, and America is big enough that a lot of people will never see the Southwest. I lived in Oklahoma briefly back in the mid-nineties, was in Texas once over forty years ago (well, technically twice, but the second time was a brief layover in DFW), Colorado (Denver) once for a library conference, and California (once) for another library conference. And that's it.
posted by Halloween Jack at 10:01 PM on December 2, 2018

As a guy I used to work for was fond of saying, "Twelve years of free public education down the drain."
posted by bryon at 10:24 PM on December 2, 2018

The nuance required to get someone to hear and understand Southwest Virginia and not south West Virginia (and get the difference) is serious business.

Thivaia, is there a sociopolitical reason for not saying “southwestern Virginia” to get around the problem?
posted by rokusan at 10:51 PM on December 2, 2018 [1 favorite]

"Is that part of America? A state? Really?" But this wasn't that long ago.

To be fair, Hawaii was only made a state in 1959. New Mexico, by contrast was added in 1912, same year as Arizona.
posted by pwnguin at 11:09 PM on December 2, 2018

AKA Maryland.

Which I just learned this weekend was so named as it was originally intended to be a refuge for Catholics fleeing persecution.
posted by acb at 1:13 AM on December 3, 2018

the police officer's eyes nearly bugged out of his head when he read "COLUMBIA???" on my Canadian passport...

A policeman up this way, with a friend of ours: "Where are you from?"
Her: "Philadelphia."
Him: "Then why does it say 'Pennsylvanla' on your license plate?"
posted by LeLiLo at 1:45 AM on December 3, 2018 [7 favorites]

For a long time New Mexico had pretty fake looking IDs.

It doesn't help that all New Mexicans are legally required to change their names to "McLovin".
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 2:29 AM on December 3, 2018 [10 favorites]

Also, this thread is reminding me of a couple of things:

- Mrs. Example used to have a coworker who refused to believe there was a country named Chad.

- At a restaurant we once overheard what we were pretty sure was a disastrous first date during which one of the people seemed to think that the official language of Switzerland was Swiss.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 2:33 AM on December 3, 2018 [4 favorites]

Look, at the end of the day, some people are just not that bright. Such people are distributed pretty evenly throughout society, because this ain't some kind of meritocracy here, and things like intelligence and knowledge are about as likely to hinder one in life as they are to help. They are city clerks, and mechanics, and cooks, and coders, and TV pundits, and office managers, and CEOs, and doctors, and everything. They are the President of the United States of America—I'd bet anything that the POTUS can't name all 50 states on demand.

That's just people for you. That's all of us. There's a wide range. Don't expect too much.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 2:58 AM on December 3, 2018 [7 favorites]

Try to love 'em anyway.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 3:01 AM on December 3, 2018 [15 favorites]

Not knowing about all the states when it isn't really that relevant to just surviving in your difficult situation or the education system has failed you, sure, perfectly understandable and reasonable. Not knowing about all the states when your job is to check state-issued ID is a different matter. If you don't even know that New Mexico is a thing, how the fuck can you check whether that ID or state-issued document or whatever is legit? Like, that should be grounds for immediate termination in any job that requires you to have and act on that knowledge...

People in New Hampshire or New York would have this problem if anyone in the US knew where Hampshire or York are.

I was on a train from a London airport once, and some tourists near me were looking at a map. One of them suddenly exclaimed that look, there was a York here too, must be named after New York back home.
posted by Dysk at 3:08 AM on December 3, 2018 [20 favorites]

Some people just do not get maps. Period. Some have bad enough memories that even if they knew something in school they don't know it anymore. Combine those two, and it's a wonder - in a positive sense - that they manage to commute home.
posted by aurelian at 3:10 AM on December 3, 2018 [2 favorites]

I'd judge but it took me longer than it should to wrap my head around the fact even if New York and New Jersey were both named New Place-in-England, they were not, in fact, part of New England. This was after a couple of months living in actual New England.
posted by Kattullus at 3:13 AM on December 3, 2018 [3 favorites]

bleep: It's also terrifying how we rely on the rules of bureaucracy smiling on us in order to live our lives, but the rules are just implemented by whoever, based on whatever they feel like doing, and if they don't feel like doing it, they don't have to, for whatever nonsense made-up reason they come up with.

This is exactly true. If you rely on people being competent and fair to get you through life, you're going to have problems. Ever try to pull a building permit? But I digress. Governments are made of people, and people are a diverse bunch. Many of them are helpful and competent. Some will go above and beyond the call of duty for you, just because. Some will frustrate and disappoint you. Even the most important systems are designed and run by people. What's the alternative?
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 3:20 AM on December 3, 2018 [1 favorite]

maybe we've been going on about this the wrong way. Rather than work towards preventing disenfranchisement of voters, maybe we work to prove something like Texas is a republic and not a state - and revoke Texas's (or a different "state's" electoral college value...

That's right: lets get picky with 200 year old paperwork clerical errors.
posted by Nanukthedog at 3:21 AM on December 3, 2018 [1 favorite]

I'd judge but it took me longer than it should to wrap my head around the fact even if New York and New Jersey were both named New Place-in-England, they were not, in fact, part of New England. This was after a couple of months living in actual New England.

Before the brits got in, New Netherland was a thing. Then they called it New York.

Up The Patroon!
posted by mikelieman at 3:22 AM on December 3, 2018 [2 favorites]

I'd judge but it took me longer than it should to wrap my head around the fact even if New York and New Jersey were both named New Place-in-England, they were not, in fact, part of New England.

Jersey isn't actually in England!
posted by Dysk at 3:24 AM on December 3, 2018 [9 favorites]

If it’s any consolation, a friend of mine was travelling on a diplomatic passport and was detained at the German border because the border guards didn’t believe that Uruguay was a country.
posted by chappell, ambrose at 3:25 AM on December 3, 2018 [8 favorites]

Jersey isn't actually in England!

It just took me a solid minute to mentally sort the difference between England, Britain, and the UK.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 3:51 AM on December 3, 2018 [1 favorite]

(Jersey isn’t in the UK either, though)
posted by chappell, ambrose at 4:13 AM on December 3, 2018 [6 favorites]

Jersey is in the British Empire, along with St. Helena, Tristan da Cuñha, Bermuda and (for now, at least) Gibraltar and the Falklands. The most salient manifestation of it is its British-style alphanumeric postcodes that map to a compact area on a map.
posted by acb at 4:44 AM on December 3, 2018

These anecdotes aren't helping my hope for humanity, y'all.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 4:54 AM on December 3, 2018 [2 favorites]

Here’s a good primer on all things UK, for the confused.
posted by Happy Dave at 4:56 AM on December 3, 2018 [3 favorites]

Oh yeah, I always forget that Britain still considers itself an empire. As if that was something to be proud of.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 4:57 AM on December 3, 2018 [1 favorite]

Well, Jersey, Guernsey and the Isle of Mann are technically crown dependencies - but mostly Britain has a collection of overseas territories... exactly like the US does. If you want to compare, the respective wikipedia articles have lists of both: British territories; US territories.
posted by chappell, ambrose at 5:08 AM on December 3, 2018

Which is to say, I don’t think anyone in considers the Empire to be an ongoing project at this point, and it makes about as much sense to accuse Americans of the same thing, if we’re basing the accusation on the administration of various small islands in the middle of nowhere.
posted by chappell, ambrose at 5:11 AM on December 3, 2018 [1 favorite]

The US Mint has been trying to educate you about the other states since 1999.

Then they lost it when they started throwing in national parks and stuff.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 5:17 AM on December 3, 2018 [1 favorite]

Thivaia, is there a sociopolitical reason for not saying “southwestern Virginia” to get around the problem?

I’m not Thivaia, but honestly? That’s just not what it’s called, and people vaguely near there are not confused.
posted by musicinmybrain at 5:41 AM on December 3, 2018

At least I didn't make a simple geographical error while complaining about someone else's geographical error.

It's always possible to have a brain fart. I used to berate myself for them, but years of listening to podcasts with people talking about the field of their expertise has made it clear to me that it can happen to anyone. The most recent one I can think of was when one of the most respected football journalists in the UK completely forgot that Cristiano Ronaldo, one of the most famous footballers in the world, had transferred with much fanfare from Real Madrid to Juventus, even though the self-same journalist had written about that story.

Anyway, the point is that the DC clerk could just have had a brainfart that day (which doesn't excuse the you-speak-such-good-English condescension, though).
posted by Kattullus at 5:46 AM on December 3, 2018

Honest to fuck, my college roommate had to be shown proof that West Virginia was a state, and not just some people from the western part of Virginia being particular.

I'm just saying, we used to play the spot-the-license-plate game on road trips when I was a kid, and quickly collected all 49 states plus DC... but to my knowledge I've still never seen a car from the purported state of West Virginia.
posted by ook at 5:56 AM on December 3, 2018 [3 favorites]

To be fair, living in RI, there are people born in Providence who don’t really accept the existence of such far-off places as Foster-Glocester, much less fantastical mythlands like Delaware. What chance does New Mexico have?
posted by GenjiandProust at 6:18 AM on December 3, 2018 [4 favorites]

I love these kinds of story. A favorite was a family friend from Vermont who moved to California 30 years ago and went to get a license and the DMV could not be convinced the Vermont license was valid, because Vermont "wasn't a state." Finally he convinced the two clerks and supervisor to get a phone book and showed them Vermont on the area code map of the US. They stared at it for a long moment, and then the supervisor shrugged and said (and this is why I remember this story and it always makes me laugh), "If it's good enough for PacBell, it's good enough for me!"

I had a multi-week farrago with a Peoria-area government entity who refused to accept my US passport as proof of citizenship OR identity. Apparently up until that moment, people had only ever used their social security card and their drivers' license. I was like, Okay, but that's NOT actually proof of citizenship, that's proof of a right to work and proof of identity/residence, and my passport is DEFINITELY proof of both of those things. I went all the way up the chain to the department manager, who refused to take my passport, and then demanded to talk to their legal counsel, which they refused to let me do, so I came to a public meeting and threw a hissy, and pointed out REPEATEDLY that the ON THE FORM ITSELF that a US Passport was not just allowed but the PREFERRED for of identification for these purposes. I mean I HAD my social security card handy but I'd be DAMNED if I was going to bow before incompetent bureaucrats when I didn't have to and had no time pressure.

I had a roommate in college (A TOP 25 COLLEGE) who was profoundly convinced that Ireland was part of the UK, but Scotland was a separate country. We were studying abroad in London and I just barely convinced her to take her passport with her to Ireland, "just in case you need it." Her mind was completely blown when she came back, "They have different money there and everything!"

Although that pales before my history-major husband who somehow made it to the 2012 London Olympics before he learned, during the parade of nations, that Ireland was NOT PART OF THE UK, and then when I was like, "Yes, there was like a whole war about it on the tag end of WWI that ended with an independent Ireland and Northern Ireland still part of the UK? And then the IRA bombed the UK for decades, including Parliament, and the UK violently and repeatedly retaliated, over Northern Ireland? And Bono wrote a bunch of songs about it?" He was like, "That's ridiculous, you're telling me it would be like if Texas just decided to quit the US, they'd never allow that!" "YEAH DUDE THAT'S WHY THERE WAS A WAR." "That's ridiculous! You're not allowed to just DO that!" "REMEMBER THE US CIVIL WAR?" He didn't believe me until he googled it and then I had to spend a good hour explaining the Good Friday Agreement and EU membership and open borders and all the rest.

(What's even weirder is that my sister lived in Ireland for a good five years so it's not like Ireland never came up at dinner!)
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 6:19 AM on December 3, 2018 [29 favorites]

hippybear: The actual answer is that New Mexico basically won WW2 for the US but people don't even know it exists despite a Boys II Men video being filmed there and Billy The Kid (Young Guns! Young Guns II!) and Roswell and the Very Large Array radio satellite made famous in Contact and and and and

It’s funny that you mention this because when I was growing up I was a huge dork about aliens and UFOs and such, and now I get Nevada and New Mexico mixed up in my head at times because of Roswell/Area 51. At some point in time they sort of blended into one concept for me, resulting in those states getting mixed up.

At one point in time I knew all of the US states locations on a blank map, and I think I could maybe do it again. However, I also at one time knew all of the African countries, the Middle East, and SE Asia, but I definitely don’t remember those anymore. Knowing where those places are located is a bit useless in my day-to-day, but if I had to conjure up a mental image of where a particular US state was located I wouldn’t be too far off.
posted by gucci mane at 6:24 AM on December 3, 2018 [1 favorite]

I have at various times lived in Washington (the state, not the DC), and have found that plenty of people, especially on the eastern seaboard, are unaware that there is a state in addition to the capitol. Fortunately it's never been a situation that has caused harm or difficulty, just amusement during hotel check-ins and the like. Most people don't travel much, and most schools aren't all that great, so people not knowing about far-flung geography seems pretty normal to me.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:31 AM on December 3, 2018 [2 favorites]

I just looked up the Great Finland Lie. That's not ignorance; that's crazy. Be careful out there, Mefites.
posted by ALeaflikeStructure at 6:31 AM on December 3, 2018 [3 favorites]

I like to think that I am a relatively smart, well-read and -educated person, but my elementary/high school had outdated textbooks and history/geography were never my favorite subjects, so I went around thinking that Yugoslavia was still a country until my college roommate disabused me of that notion in 2008.
posted by coppermoss at 6:37 AM on December 3, 2018 [2 favorites]

Well hey, I'm just a monkey in some rather smart pants over here, don't expect too much.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 6:42 AM on December 3, 2018 [2 favorites]

This kind of thing is why New Mexico's license plates say "New Mexico USA"
posted by buxtonbluecat at 6:46 AM on December 3, 2018 [9 favorites]

Well hey, I'm just a monkey in some rather smart pants over here, don't expect too much.

It’s all good! It is really confusing. Also, I just fell asleep for an hour or so after a night of insomnia and dreamt that the thread had moved on to making fun of my username (?) and that despite being a republican I was having to passionately defend the Queen. (Then I had a conversation with an old school friend whose eyes had since grown to about 5x their normal size and who kept buying computer repair businesses to shut them down as some kind of complicated tax fraud.)
posted by chappell, ambrose at 7:01 AM on December 3, 2018 [1 favorite]

It was a mistake not to federalize all driver's licences when they introduced the CDL legislation.
posted by groda at 7:02 AM on December 3, 2018 [3 favorites]

There was something going around the other day where, iirc, a Greek person in the UK was being threatened by their boss because their passport actually said Hellenic Republic.

My mother has been considering moving to Portland, New South Wales, Australia of late, and I and many others even here in NSW, apparently mentally jump to Oregon or Maine before we remember that there is a Portland here.
posted by AnhydrousLove at 7:06 AM on December 3, 2018 [1 favorite]

This is reminding me very strongly of the application test to be a U.S Census worker, which I took back in 2010. I aced it and therefore got offered the much cushier job in the office than working the streets, but I was puzzled, at the time, why there'd be people who didn't get at least 90%. Now I believe it.

The test was entirely about the ability to a) alphabetize and b) parse street addresses.
posted by restless_nomad at 7:19 AM on December 3, 2018 [6 favorites]

Many years ago when I worked at a truck stop on the Massachusetts Turnpike a truck driver asked me where New England was.

Sunday night/Monday morning after Thanksgiving, 2001. I get to Boston South Station at four in the morning after the Train Ride From Hell, and get in a cab.

Cab driver, dropping me off: "what is this place?"
me: "MIT."
Cab driver: "what is MIT?"
me: "Massachusetts Institute of Technology. It's a college."
Cab driver: "what's Massachusetts?"
posted by madcaptenor at 7:29 AM on December 3, 2018 [9 favorites]

I have at various times lived in Washington (the state, not the DC), and have found that plenty of people, especially on the eastern seaboard, are unaware that there is a state in addition to the capitol.

I am from Philadelphia. It took me embarrassingly long to figure out that the Washington football team did not play in Seattle.
posted by madcaptenor at 7:31 AM on December 3, 2018 [5 favorites]

In 1987 my friend visited Dracula's Castle in Romania. There he met a woman from the adjacent country of Moldova. They married 2 years later. Problem was, in 1985 there was a major story line involving a Moldovian Prince in the highly rated TV show Dynasty. The couple found out quickly, then over and over, that almost everyone knew Moldova didn't exist except on Dynasty.
posted by Homer42 at 7:41 AM on December 3, 2018 [9 favorites]

Please someone convince me this is 100% fake: from Jimmy Fallon, Can You Name a Country?
posted by mosst at 7:55 AM on December 3, 2018

I am from Philadelphia. It took me embarrassingly long to figure out that the Washington football team did not play in Seattle.

That's okay. When the NHL expanded in 1991, I was shocked as I did not realize that ice hockey was so popular in Costa Rica
posted by standardasparagus at 8:03 AM on December 3, 2018 [1 favorite]

I went around thinking that Yugoslavia was still a country until my college roommate disabused me of that notion in 2008.

In your defense, it was a bit confusing because there was in fact a sovereign state called the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia from 1992 to 2003, which then from 2003 to 2006 was subsequently called "Serbia and Montenegro."

As you might guess from the name, this state that existed from 1992 to 2006 comprised what are now the separate sovereign states of Montenegro, Serbia, and disputed Kosovo.
posted by andrewesque at 8:09 AM on December 3, 2018

Canadians working in call centers have been trained to rely on American's imperfect sense of geography:

Customer: "Where are you guys located?"
Call Taker (located in Victoria, British Columbia): "We're just north of Seattle"
Customer: "I know Seattle - whereabouts up there?
Worker: "Do you know Bellingham?"
Customer: "Sure, we went up there one year."
Call Taker: "Do you know Port Angeles?"
Customer: "I don't think I've heard of that, no."
Call Taker: "We're just outside Port Angeles."
posted by not_that_epiphanius at 8:27 AM on December 3, 2018 [8 favorites]

I mean, I wouldn't expect non-Americans to know the location of a random 20,000-person port town in their country, either. Even if they were from a country much smaller than the US.
posted by mosst at 8:35 AM on December 3, 2018 [2 favorites]

I used to work in Vancouver BC and called a vendor in Seattle. Told them I was from Vancouver BC and the person asked "Now, is that Western Canada, Central Canada, or Eastern Canada?"

Another fun state-related activity is to search Yahoo! Answers for "52 states". A lot of people are convinced that there are 50 mainland states + Hawaii and Alaska.
posted by Gortuk at 8:47 AM on December 3, 2018 [2 favorites]

because of Roswell/Area 51
I've been to all 48 of the contiguous states and I still had those two mushed together in my head until like 8 years ago.

Washington (the state, not the DC)
If you live in Vancouver, Washington, you get to explain that it is Vancouver (not BC), Washington (not DC).
posted by soelo at 8:48 AM on December 3, 2018 [10 favorites]

@ good in a vacuum : Many years ago I was enrolled in a mandatory Texas history class at a community college in north Texas. Our first exam included a bonus question that consisted of a US map with the states numbered, and all you need to do was generate a matching numbered list of state names. Easy bonus points, I thought, until the next class session when our exams were returned and I learned that I was the only student who managed to earn those easy bonus points. The teacher was also amused to report that two students misidentified Texas.
posted by HillbillyInBC at 9:09 AM on December 3, 2018 [2 favorites]

Being from Hawaii means not being treated like an American on the mainland which bites, but also not being treated like an American when traveling internationally which rocks.
posted by Joey Michaels at 9:16 AM on December 3, 2018 [14 favorites]

Living in America, got to have a celebration!
posted by SonInLawOfSam at 9:24 AM on December 3, 2018

My party trick, years ago, was to draw the 48 contiguous states, like the Al Franken sketch on SNL. (I also did a world map in under 15 seconds.)

Then I was kinda drunk one time, and a friend (also drunk) decided to shut me up by requesting I do my party trick on the bar's Etch-a-Sketch. So I did. People were arguing "that's not a state" but I kept on going. Until that night, I didn't realize just how geographically ignorant most people are.

The bar kept the Etch-a-Sketch, unshaken, up on the wall until it closed a few years later.
posted by notsnot at 9:24 AM on December 3, 2018 [10 favorites]

Being from Hawaii means not being treated like an American on the mainland which bites

I'm just glad I swapped out my Hawaii ID for one from a mainland state before Superbad came out.
posted by tobascodagama at 9:27 AM on December 3, 2018 [5 favorites]

Immortal line from a flustered clerk who was reading information to me over the phone for work purposes: "Wait, what? There's an A.R. Kansas? What the hell is A.R. Kansas? What does the A.R. stand for?"
posted by zeusianfog at 9:43 AM on December 3, 2018 [1 favorite]

"Assault Rifle"
posted by pwnguin at 9:58 AM on December 3, 2018 [10 favorites]

I've imagined that the "Ar-" is some sort of modifier, so in some parallel world we have Arillinois, Armissouri, Artexas, etc. The fact that there's a town called Arkadelphia only supports my theory.
posted by madcaptenor at 10:13 AM on December 3, 2018 [11 favorites]

Actually this reminds me of the waitress in a bar in LA who ID’d me and wouldn’t accept my U.K. passport as proof of age because it ‘didn’t include height and weight’.

She relented after I pointed out it was good enough to enter the country, so should suffice for the purchase of an overpriced craft ale.
posted by Happy Dave at 10:20 AM on December 3, 2018 [4 favorites]

Heh, Assault Rifle is a common misconception you libs make. It’s ACTUALLY ArmaLite Rifle Kansas.
posted by Ghostride The Whip at 10:34 AM on December 3, 2018 [15 favorites]

The former flag of New Mexico literally had the US flag in the corner. I have to imagine that folks there have been dealing with this misunderstanding for a long time.
posted by adamrice at 10:37 AM on December 3, 2018 [1 favorite]

This was my favorite palm plant story of the year.
posted by Oyéah at 11:09 AM on December 3, 2018

I once had a long argument with American Airlines over having called their domestic reservations line to book a trip to Puerto Rico. The woman kept telling me this was only for the United States. I said yes, I agree. She said, but this is Puerto Rico. I asked here what country is Puerto Rico. It is not the United States she said. I asked her to look to see if I need a passport to go there. She looked and said no. So it is domestic, right? Nope. They speak spanish there she told me. Cannot be the US.

Finally, after literally 6 minutes, she transferred me to someone who could help me with my reservations. She transferred me to the Spanish speaking domestic line.

I do not mind the initial ignorance. It is the repeated insistence even in the face of evidence that boggles my mind.
posted by AugustWest at 11:20 AM on December 3, 2018 [16 favorites]

AKA Maryland.

Which I just learned this weekend was so named as it was originally intended to be a refuge for Catholics fleeing persecution.

Was it? I thought it was named after Queen Henrietta Maria, wife of Charles 1 - who was a Protestant king. albeit with a complex relationship to Catholicism (Henrietta was Catholic). I don't remember him doing much to help persecuted Catholics, though, as the country was in general firmly of the opinion that you couldn't persecute Catholics enough.
posted by Devonian at 12:23 PM on December 3, 2018

What does the A.R. stand for?"

Alternate Reality. A.R. Kansas is a really nice place! They even have some hills and forests! Also, a progressive legislature and that dog who became Governor is really getting stuff done! It makes me sad for this reality.
posted by GenjiandProust at 12:30 PM on December 3, 2018 [8 favorites]

Also, in A.R. Kansas, everyone knows that New Mexico is a state, and they don’t even get confused about Even Newer Mexico (which is not a US state), Nuevo Colorado (which is a state of Mexico), Northeast Dakota (which is a US state), or South Canada(that used to be West Virgina).

It’s a really fun reality, except for middle school geography classes (which they still teach there).
posted by GenjiandProust at 12:35 PM on December 3, 2018 [6 favorites]

Wait, they have a New Mexico now?

(This is a common problem, everyone who's lived in New Mexico has a story like this.)

I grew up in Las Cruces and graduated from Mayfield High School. I can confirm that this is very, very common depending on how far away from the Southwest you are. Growing up, most of my friends experienced this same conversation in some fashion:

"Where are you from?"

"Las Cruces, New Mexico."

"Wait, but you speak English so well. You don't even have an accent!"

"New Mexicans don't really have accents."

"Well, that must make it easier at the border."

"Yeah, okay...I gotta go." **Sigh**
posted by Benway at 2:15 PM on December 3, 2018 [2 favorites]

Easily one of my favourite things about that state. I can't tell you how often my family's print shop in Albuquerque would get customers baffled that we would ship to America or that they were paying a Mexican company. A lot of Americans just don't seem to know about New Mexico or are under the mistaken assumption it's part of Mexico.
posted by GoblinHoney at 2:55 PM on December 3, 2018 [1 favorite]

Questions I was sincerely asked by Washingtonians, after moving there from Delaware:

"Is that part of New England?" Understandable, but also no.

"That's in Colorado, isn't it?" I can only assume they confused "Delaware" with "Denver".

And my personal favorite: "Delaware - that's a city in Philadelphia, right?"
posted by darchildre at 5:43 PM on December 3, 2018 [2 favorites]

Public education issues aside (I am only 26 and we had very thorough geography classes, that high school still does, I'm thinking reports of the death of geography classes are overstated), I do think it's in large part because the US is actually truly massive compared to the rest of the world except Russia and China. Like, asking someone in Washington State about the states in the SE of the nation is like asking someone in the UK about the administrative districts in Turkey, in terms of distance. The US is really really big and the vast majority of people will either never leave the state they were born in, or will live in one or two other states. Road-based travel is much rarer than it once was, so people don't drive through states as often, or need to care in what order they are as much. People don't really need to know it, and it's about something as far away as the middle east is to London, so they don't know it.
posted by neonrev at 5:53 PM on December 3, 2018 [1 favorite]

This has happened to me several times though, coming from South Dakota. People have:
Thought I meant the south part of a state called Dakota (excusable, there was once a Dakota Territory)
Assumed there was also a North, West or East Dakota (only one is real, and then just barely)
Straight up not understood it was a state until we explained it's where Deadwood is and yes that is a real town and then they asked us about tepees, if Indian attacks are an issue, and if we had running water and such. They didn't seem to understand much about anything.

It bugs me less than I'd imagine it would someone in a larger, more important state, because it's ENTIRELY PLAUSIBLE to live your entire life in the US and only hear about SD in school and maybe as the place with Mt Rushmore, and to never meet anyone from there.
posted by neonrev at 6:00 PM on December 3, 2018 [2 favorites]

I love you too, chappell, ambrose. Sorry for being a bit tetchy this (UTC -5:00) morning. You're good people.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 7:12 PM on December 3, 2018

I was at a party once on Hemenway St. in Boston (Massachusetts) during my Berklee years, and these two townies were chatting with my guitarist friend who was from Bridgeport, CT. When they asked him where he was from, they drew a complete blank when he said "Connecticut." "Where's that?" (As I'm sure y'all know, Connecticut borders Massachusetts. You can drive to the northeast corner of Connecticut from Boston in under an hour and a half. New England states are tiny compared to the rest of the country.)
posted by Philofacts at 8:21 PM on December 3, 2018 [2 favorites]

I do think it's in large part because the US is actually truly massive compared to the rest of the world except Russia and China.

Sure, but that's not really that meaningful. There are 50 states in the US. That's a lot to be able to list out of the blue, but not unreasonable to be able to recognise each of. There are 51 countries in Europe, for example (counting Turkey and Russia) which is very comparable. Again, not unreasonable to expect someone living here to be able to recognise that Andorra, yep, that's a European country (even if they might not recall it themselves unprompted). There are 48 counties in England. Again, wouldn't expect people to be able to list all of them, but would expect people to be able to tell that yes, Rutland is in fact a county. And doubly so if their job involved checking county issued ID or paperwork.

50 is a fair few, but far from uniquely many places to remember. The US is big, yes, but the list is not that long, and people from smaller countries tend to have to know things about surrounding countries too, in a way that Americans don't have to, making a country to country comparison not the most apt for this context. And again, being able to recognise a thing is different to being able to recall it unprompted, and being a member of the public is different to being a bureaucract whose job it is to check state-issued ID.
posted by Dysk at 2:56 AM on December 4, 2018 [2 favorites]

Conversely, I have had TSA people at DIA and ABQ look askance at my DC driver's license, and several times had to explain that yes indeed people other than congressmembers do live in DC.

"New Mexicans don't really have accents."
That's certainly true of e.g. well-to-do white people in Santa Fe, but as someone who's retained a fairly pronounced norteño/Spanglish accent (esp. after a couple beers), I beg to differ. If you were here I could do a pretty good impression of my uncle Dick.
posted by aspersioncast at 11:19 AM on December 4, 2018 [3 favorites]

we had very thorough geography classes, that high school still does, I'm thinking reports of the death of geography classes are overstated

The DC public school curriculum most certainly still covers history and geography, I'd love to know about any real instances of a school system dropping them - it seems to be a kind of urban myth.
https://dcps.dc.gov/page/social-studies
posted by the agents of KAOS at 12:15 PM on December 4, 2018 [1 favorite]

search Yahoo! Answers for "52 states". A lot of people are convinced that there are 50 mainland states + Hawaii and Alaska.

Okay, I'm gonna start to spread this one myself, I think.

The great state of New England is an obvious 51st... what's the other phantom one? I worry that East Virginia and West Dakota and such are too obvious.
posted by rokusan at 12:38 PM on December 4, 2018 [1 favorite]

It's Eastern Washington. Eastern Washington is not only its own state, it is also its own century. (Hint: Not the 21st century)
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 1:04 PM on December 4, 2018

I believe the canonical extra state, per John "MeFi's Own" Hodgman, is Ar (also known as Hohoq).
posted by Kattullus at 1:06 PM on December 4, 2018

Pennsyltucky.

But this actually creates two extra states: Philadelphia and Pittsburgh. So now there's one too many. To fix that, merge southern New Jersey with the state of Philadelphia that we just created, and merge northern New Jersey with New York state.

Central Jersey does not exist.
posted by madcaptenor at 1:08 PM on December 4, 2018

what's the other phantom one?
Pete Dakota
posted by soelo at 1:42 PM on December 4, 2018

Central Jersey does not exist.

Ooo, nice trolling.
posted by asperity at 2:43 PM on December 4, 2018

Totally not questioning your Las Cruces bonafides Benway, just asserting this person probably meant "you don't have a 'Mexican' accent."
posted by aspersioncast at 2:52 PM on December 4, 2018