Obviously burritos, corn dogs, dumplings, Pop-Tarts are all calzones
December 10, 2018 7:52 PM Subscribe
Earlier this year @Phosphatide stepped into the (apparently never, ever, ever ending) "what is a sandwich" debate with the Cube Rule of Food, a six-part classification system for dishes based on the location of the starch. @indirect then stepped in to clarify the finer points. Therefore, according to the Rule: nigiri sushi should be categorized as toast, stacked toast as a sandwich, a hot dog as a taco, pigs in a blanket as sushi, and cheesecake as quiche. via Kottke
There are no previouslies. In one way or another every Metafilter post relates to sandwiches.
There are no previouslies. In one way or another every Metafilter post relates to sandwiches.
humans are sealed crustless sandwiches with hot filling
posted by poffin boffin at 8:01 PM on December 10, 2018 [35 favorites]
posted by poffin boffin at 8:01 PM on December 10, 2018 [35 favorites]
babies are like ravioli
posted by poffin boffin at 8:01 PM on December 10, 2018 [16 favorites]
posted by poffin boffin at 8:01 PM on December 10, 2018 [16 favorites]
babies are delicious but it's hard to find a slow cooker large enough to hold one.
posted by hippybear at 8:06 PM on December 10, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 8:06 PM on December 10, 2018 [2 favorites]
Words have lost all meaning after reading that a hot dog is a taco.
Also the vanilla soy latte one made me laugh like a maniac.
posted by greermahoney at 8:09 PM on December 10, 2018 [4 favorites]
Also the vanilla soy latte one made me laugh like a maniac.
posted by greermahoney at 8:09 PM on December 10, 2018 [4 favorites]
Vanilla Soy Latte
A three-bean soup.
SHUT YOUR DIRTY M̖̱̳͚̯̀ͭ͑ͧͥÖ̮͔̐͘Ȗ͒ͣͮ̽̓T̙̗̥̘ͨ̒̌̉̄̑̍H̢̯̀̏͑̂͑
posted by Foci for Analysis at 8:12 PM on December 10, 2018 [15 favorites]
1, 3, and 5 are topologically identical; other than that this is pretty swell and does offer a bright ontological line between hotdogs and sandwiches.
posted by Maecenas at 8:14 PM on December 10, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by Maecenas at 8:14 PM on December 10, 2018 [4 favorites]
Pretty much everything is a sandwich, and cereal is cold soup with milk.
posted by codacorolla at 8:18 PM on December 10, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by codacorolla at 8:18 PM on December 10, 2018 [2 favorites]
I think this is my new favorite slide deck. Previous favorites are The Gettysburg Powerpoint Presentation and Chicken chicken chicken
Both featured previously.
posted by Anonymous Function at 8:19 PM on December 10, 2018 [5 favorites]
Both featured previously.
posted by Anonymous Function at 8:19 PM on December 10, 2018 [5 favorites]
Well, I was firmly on Team-Subset-Of-Sandwich, but I am intrigued by Professor not_the_water’s research in this field. Further study is warranted.
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 8:24 PM on December 10, 2018
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 8:24 PM on December 10, 2018
I spent two hours discussing this on twitter today after someone brought up pocky, and look, here's the thing:
this system is bad and wrong because it has no provision for foodstuffs consisting of a starch with other foods on top of it, as opposed to starch wrapped around other foods.
therefore I propose:
a) separate the category of 'toast' into 'bred' and 'toast', to account for starch-with-a-thing-on-one-dimension as being a fundamentally different thing from starch-all-alone
b) rename category 6 to 'dumpling' as this word already exists to describe a wide variety of foods consisting of starch wrapped completely around other types of food AND
b.i) 'dumpling' is a much more inherently funny word
c) eliminate the category of 'salad' altogether in favor of creating
d) anti-categories such as can handle things like pocky and dumpling soups and proper sushi rolls*, with starch on the inside,
I therefore propose that we instead categorize by a) considering the three-dimensional topological surface of all foods, b) assigning an outermost layer as either starch or not-starch, and c) measuring the number of surfaces covered in the non-starch thing. because the endpoints of either all starch or no starch become difficult to categorize in this way, I propose that these categories receive the label of lim(1->0 (bred) and lim(-1->0) (anti-bred).
if it is a bred thing with only one dimensions' worth of Stuff on it, it is a Toast. if it is a not-bred thing with only one dimension of starch on it, it is a Anti-Toast. (example: green bean casserole.)
if it is a starch thing with two slabs of starch, one on top and one on the bottom, it is a Sandwich. if it is a starch thing with not-starch on top and on bottom, and the middle is indeterminate or starch, it is an anti-Sandwich. we have determined that lasagne made the correct way is such a beast, or perhaps a trifle.
if it is a not-starch thing with three connecting surfaces of starch wrapped around it, it is a Taco. if it is a starch thing with three connecting surfaces of not-starch on it, it is an Anti-Taco, like a ganache cake or certain log cakes.
and so forth.
if it is a not-starch thing wrapped entirely in starch, it is a Dumpling. if it is a starch thing immersed in non-starch, it is an Anti-Dumpling. paradoxically this latter category includes chicken-and-dumpling soup.
thank you for attending my ted talk. I will take questions at the taco truck down the street.
the existing sushi category is incorrect because the starch is not on the outside; the nori is on the outside and being composed of seaweed is not a fucking starch. only the reverse rolls with the rice on the outside qualify as sushi in the way the category is described. a taquito is a better example.
posted by sciatrix at 8:30 PM on December 10, 2018 [42 favorites]
this system is bad and wrong because it has no provision for foodstuffs consisting of a starch with other foods on top of it, as opposed to starch wrapped around other foods.
therefore I propose:
a) separate the category of 'toast' into 'bred' and 'toast', to account for starch-with-a-thing-on-one-dimension as being a fundamentally different thing from starch-all-alone
b) rename category 6 to 'dumpling' as this word already exists to describe a wide variety of foods consisting of starch wrapped completely around other types of food AND
b.i) 'dumpling' is a much more inherently funny word
c) eliminate the category of 'salad' altogether in favor of creating
d) anti-categories such as can handle things like pocky and dumpling soups and proper sushi rolls*, with starch on the inside,
I therefore propose that we instead categorize by a) considering the three-dimensional topological surface of all foods, b) assigning an outermost layer as either starch or not-starch, and c) measuring the number of surfaces covered in the non-starch thing. because the endpoints of either all starch or no starch become difficult to categorize in this way, I propose that these categories receive the label of lim(1->0 (bred) and lim(-1->0) (anti-bred).
if it is a bred thing with only one dimensions' worth of Stuff on it, it is a Toast. if it is a not-bred thing with only one dimension of starch on it, it is a Anti-Toast. (example: green bean casserole.)
if it is a starch thing with two slabs of starch, one on top and one on the bottom, it is a Sandwich. if it is a starch thing with not-starch on top and on bottom, and the middle is indeterminate or starch, it is an anti-Sandwich. we have determined that lasagne made the correct way is such a beast, or perhaps a trifle.
if it is a not-starch thing with three connecting surfaces of starch wrapped around it, it is a Taco. if it is a starch thing with three connecting surfaces of not-starch on it, it is an Anti-Taco, like a ganache cake or certain log cakes.
and so forth.
if it is a not-starch thing wrapped entirely in starch, it is a Dumpling. if it is a starch thing immersed in non-starch, it is an Anti-Dumpling. paradoxically this latter category includes chicken-and-dumpling soup.
thank you for attending my ted talk. I will take questions at the taco truck down the street.
the existing sushi category is incorrect because the starch is not on the outside; the nori is on the outside and being composed of seaweed is not a fucking starch. only the reverse rolls with the rice on the outside qualify as sushi in the way the category is described. a taquito is a better example.
posted by sciatrix at 8:30 PM on December 10, 2018 [42 favorites]
I can get behind this categorization, except for the named category for #6.
A dumpling is not a type of calzone, a calzone is a type of dumpling.
posted by CrystalDave at 8:31 PM on December 10, 2018 [5 favorites]
A dumpling is not a type of calzone, a calzone is a type of dumpling.
posted by CrystalDave at 8:31 PM on December 10, 2018 [5 favorites]
The vanilla soy latte thing is not original.
posted by axiom at 8:34 PM on December 10, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by axiom at 8:34 PM on December 10, 2018 [1 favorite]
I would tolerate the nonsense of nigiri being toast if it induces people to think more about how and why they come to rules and definitions, and why rigid categories for human things are silly, and more the result of post hoc justification than Platonic Truth.
But I think sometimes people just like to argue and be silly. I get that. Well, half of it. Humbug.
posted by pykrete jungle at 8:39 PM on December 10, 2018 [7 favorites]
But I think sometimes people just like to argue and be silly. I get that. Well, half of it. Humbug.
posted by pykrete jungle at 8:39 PM on December 10, 2018 [7 favorites]
Okay, internet: we need to talk about cooking taxonomy. It's clear that you've not thought about it, and I assume it's because your mothers cook for you, but it's not based on shapes.
The accepted taxonomy of what a recipe is is based on two things: tradition of origin (which is ironclad) and sweet/savoury, which is usually also fairly reliable but exceptions do exist. For instance, a dessert pizza is a pizza, which is usually savoury, but dessert pizzas are made in basically the same way, with a slightly sweeter dough and a sweet sauce instead of savoury. Sandwiches, too, can be sweet or savoury, and that's because they use ingredients that have been prepared in advanced.
The sweet/savoury categorisation exists because the recipes are usually wildly different. Savoury foods are not as sensitive: you put in a bit more vegetables, cook it for a few minutes over the recipe, it'll still basically be fine. You get that Malliard reaction on the food and it'll turn out okay. Sweet recipes, by contrast, are very, very sensitive - you put in a bit more flour to bulk it out, and you may get a completely different recipe. You beat eggs and they go frothy, and you beat them even more and they change consistency entirely. You have to have a different mindset to cook them. You might be able to spread Nutella on a dessert pizza just like tomato paste, but you don't make Nutella like you make tomato paste.
And the tradition category exists because what flavours and techniques are common to recipes is what defines them much more than their goddamn shape. Some traditions are very strict about their taxonomies - for instance, the Italian tradition is strict, and if you make a bolognese sauce and add carrot, it's not bolognese any more. It's a ragu. If a recipe or technique crosses cultural boundaries, as often happens, it's a new thing according to that tradition, even if it borrows the name. Swedish meatballs aren't Italian once the Swedish start making them.
This raises the spectre of cultural appropriation, and I have to get back to work!
Anyway, a sandwich is British, and it's usually savoury, but it's always made from slices of a bread loaf. The exception is that in the American tradition, a sandwich is made out of bread no matter the way it was baked, but you can't then turn to us and say that we have to agree to use your definition of sandwich.
posted by Merus at 8:52 PM on December 10, 2018 [12 favorites]
The accepted taxonomy of what a recipe is is based on two things: tradition of origin (which is ironclad) and sweet/savoury, which is usually also fairly reliable but exceptions do exist. For instance, a dessert pizza is a pizza, which is usually savoury, but dessert pizzas are made in basically the same way, with a slightly sweeter dough and a sweet sauce instead of savoury. Sandwiches, too, can be sweet or savoury, and that's because they use ingredients that have been prepared in advanced.
The sweet/savoury categorisation exists because the recipes are usually wildly different. Savoury foods are not as sensitive: you put in a bit more vegetables, cook it for a few minutes over the recipe, it'll still basically be fine. You get that Malliard reaction on the food and it'll turn out okay. Sweet recipes, by contrast, are very, very sensitive - you put in a bit more flour to bulk it out, and you may get a completely different recipe. You beat eggs and they go frothy, and you beat them even more and they change consistency entirely. You have to have a different mindset to cook them. You might be able to spread Nutella on a dessert pizza just like tomato paste, but you don't make Nutella like you make tomato paste.
And the tradition category exists because what flavours and techniques are common to recipes is what defines them much more than their goddamn shape. Some traditions are very strict about their taxonomies - for instance, the Italian tradition is strict, and if you make a bolognese sauce and add carrot, it's not bolognese any more. It's a ragu. If a recipe or technique crosses cultural boundaries, as often happens, it's a new thing according to that tradition, even if it borrows the name. Swedish meatballs aren't Italian once the Swedish start making them.
This raises the spectre of cultural appropriation, and I have to get back to work!
Anyway, a sandwich is British, and it's usually savoury, but it's always made from slices of a bread loaf. The exception is that in the American tradition, a sandwich is made out of bread no matter the way it was baked, but you can't then turn to us and say that we have to agree to use your definition of sandwich.
posted by Merus at 8:52 PM on December 10, 2018 [12 favorites]
I'd have a lot easier time accepting that toast is a kind of pizza than that pizza's a kind of toast.
posted by aubilenon at 8:55 PM on December 10, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by aubilenon at 8:55 PM on December 10, 2018 [1 favorite]
I'd have a lot easier time accepting that toast is a kind of pizza than that pizza's a kind of toast.
The America's Test Kitchen recipe for Grilled Pizza That Actually Works involves making an overnight raised dough which is pressed out (with oil, not flour) and is then grilled in both sides before being topped and put back on the grill until the cheese melts.
That is definitely a form of toast. That it's topped first and baked in an oven as a single unit doesn't make it less toast, IMO.
posted by hippybear at 8:59 PM on December 10, 2018 [2 favorites]
The America's Test Kitchen recipe for Grilled Pizza That Actually Works involves making an overnight raised dough which is pressed out (with oil, not flour) and is then grilled in both sides before being topped and put back on the grill until the cheese melts.
That is definitely a form of toast. That it's topped first and baked in an oven as a single unit doesn't make it less toast, IMO.
posted by hippybear at 8:59 PM on December 10, 2018 [2 favorites]
Corndogs are midwestern white people tamales.
posted by Mizu at 9:04 PM on December 10, 2018 [10 favorites]
posted by Mizu at 9:04 PM on December 10, 2018 [10 favorites]
I remember reading a writer who was traveling through Africa saying that food is rice with junk on it. My only amendment was that the food that is not rice with junk on it is dough with stuff in it. Between those two categories you get pretty much everything.
posted by Daily Alice at 9:06 PM on December 10, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by Daily Alice at 9:06 PM on December 10, 2018 [3 favorites]
While the general taxonomy is sound, there are multiple problems with the names of the categories... #1 toast open face, #2 sandwich (fine), #3 taco open wrap, #4 sushi full wrap, #5 (just drop the) bread bowl and #6 calzone fully enclosed...
posted by oneswellfoop at 9:07 PM on December 10, 2018 [6 favorites]
posted by oneswellfoop at 9:07 PM on December 10, 2018 [6 favorites]
food is rice with junk on it. My only amendment was that the food that is not rice with junk on it is dough with stuff in it.
And soup or stew is.. not food?
posted by hippybear at 9:08 PM on December 10, 2018
And soup or stew is.. not food?
posted by hippybear at 9:08 PM on December 10, 2018
PIZZA.IS.A.PIE
posted by supermedusa at 9:11 PM on December 10, 2018
posted by supermedusa at 9:11 PM on December 10, 2018
And by the transitive property.. pie is a form of pizza?
posted by hippybear at 9:14 PM on December 10, 2018
posted by hippybear at 9:14 PM on December 10, 2018
Cream of mushroom soup. Frozen. Is gelato. A slice of pepperoni pizza eaten folded is a hotdog. Beer is a rotten sandwich. Hardboiled eggs are fruit.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 9:17 PM on December 10, 2018 [5 favorites]
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 9:17 PM on December 10, 2018 [5 favorites]
Soup, stew or salad is #0 nobread; #1 open face includes pizza and pies without a top crust, top-crusted pie jumps from #1 to #6 fully enclosed except when served in slices, which could be #2 OR #3 turned 90 degrees, as is the New York folded pizza... It's complicated.
posted by oneswellfoop at 9:20 PM on December 10, 2018
posted by oneswellfoop at 9:20 PM on December 10, 2018
I'm on board with most of this, but the (0) Salad category seems off, because while some have no carbs, others are mostly carb, but with other junk mixed in. E.g. fried rice, spaghetti, poutine. I think all of those should count as (7) banana bread.
posted by equalpants at 9:20 PM on December 10, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by equalpants at 9:20 PM on December 10, 2018 [3 favorites]
Poutine is a salad.
posted by NedKoppel at 9:22 PM on December 10, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by NedKoppel at 9:22 PM on December 10, 2018 [4 favorites]
I knew it. The world went insane and I was too busy going mad to notice.
I'm going to go put a corn dog in a tortilla and use it the whole thing as sandwich filling between a mess of onion rings as bread, then I'm going to cram that in a burrito.
posted by loquacious at 9:25 PM on December 10, 2018 [4 favorites]
I'm going to go put a corn dog in a tortilla and use it the whole thing as sandwich filling between a mess of onion rings as bread, then I'm going to cram that in a burrito.
posted by loquacious at 9:25 PM on December 10, 2018 [4 favorites]
Oh. I see they have already covered that. Carry on.
posted by NedKoppel at 9:27 PM on December 10, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by NedKoppel at 9:27 PM on December 10, 2018 [1 favorite]
Anything that is all/mostly carb with nothing breadlike (rice, pasta, french fries) is either a #7 or a #0.5...
Sounds like loquacious is close to re-creating the SNL Taco Town commercial....
posted by oneswellfoop at 9:30 PM on December 10, 2018 [2 favorites]
Sounds like loquacious is close to re-creating the SNL Taco Town commercial....
posted by oneswellfoop at 9:30 PM on December 10, 2018 [2 favorites]
I also question defining rice as a starch under this system but apparently not potatoes.
Look, I'm sorry, I don't make the rules. Mashed potatoes are clearly primarily starch; ergo that bowl of em is not a salad but a toast. Similarly, poutine is not a salad, it's a jumbled up mass of starch with shit poured on it, making it anywhere from a toast to a quiche under the original taxonomy depending on your ratio of fries to nasty shit.
Nachos are also probably a toast.
posted by sciatrix at 9:37 PM on December 10, 2018 [4 favorites]
Look, I'm sorry, I don't make the rules. Mashed potatoes are clearly primarily starch; ergo that bowl of em is not a salad but a toast. Similarly, poutine is not a salad, it's a jumbled up mass of starch with shit poured on it, making it anywhere from a toast to a quiche under the original taxonomy depending on your ratio of fries to nasty shit.
Nachos are also probably a toast.
posted by sciatrix at 9:37 PM on December 10, 2018 [4 favorites]
No I'm just hungry.
posted by loquacious at 9:37 PM on December 10, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by loquacious at 9:37 PM on December 10, 2018 [2 favorites]
This all reminds me of ongoing discussion I have with a friend over the concept of a store advertising "Real Human Food Restaurant, served Earth style". The concept is the restaurant menu was made by aliens who don't have a complete handle on the whole Earth-culture cuisine, and as a result, make combinations that don't normally occur.
The quickest way to play this game is to swap starches. For instance, serving a hotdog in a sliced open baked potato; Chicken & String Beans with Garlic Sauce on a pizza dough base; or pepperoni, cheese and tomato sauce fried rice.
I mostly think about this when I crave a Chicken Tikka Masala Burrito.
posted by fings at 9:48 PM on December 10, 2018 [19 favorites]
The quickest way to play this game is to swap starches. For instance, serving a hotdog in a sliced open baked potato; Chicken & String Beans with Garlic Sauce on a pizza dough base; or pepperoni, cheese and tomato sauce fried rice.
I mostly think about this when I crave a Chicken Tikka Masala Burrito.
posted by fings at 9:48 PM on December 10, 2018 [19 favorites]
Um basically every bite of tikka masala I eat is wrapped in garlic naan with rice? Technically a burrito. Every bite, a tiny burrito.
posted by drinkyclown at 10:08 PM on December 10, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by drinkyclown at 10:08 PM on December 10, 2018 [4 favorites]
Vanilla soy latte being known as a three bean soup since at least 2011, FYI. I remember that's when I first saw that joke
posted by yueliang at 10:09 PM on December 10, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by yueliang at 10:09 PM on December 10, 2018 [1 favorite]
MetaFilter: Every bite, a tiny burrito.
posted by hippybear at 10:13 PM on December 10, 2018 [13 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 10:13 PM on December 10, 2018 [13 favorites]
I’ve long described eating chicken Tikka masala with naan as a series of tacos.
posted by flaterik at 11:29 PM on December 10, 2018
posted by flaterik at 11:29 PM on December 10, 2018
Most of these categories lack the property of being self-similar.
You can't eat a burrito unless you eat it all in one bite, otherwise each bite is actually a bread bowl, not a burrito.
Notice a pumpkin pie slice is in a different category of food than a pumpkin pie.
Most bites of my folded quesadilla (taco) are actually sandwiches.
One way to fix this is to categorize based on how the food is eaten, not on how it is visually presented. Otherwise the soaring architectures of say, wedding cakes, would be a different category than just cake. But, its not. You still eat it one slice at a time.
posted by vacapinta at 11:32 PM on December 10, 2018 [1 favorite]
You can't eat a burrito unless you eat it all in one bite, otherwise each bite is actually a bread bowl, not a burrito.
Notice a pumpkin pie slice is in a different category of food than a pumpkin pie.
Most bites of my folded quesadilla (taco) are actually sandwiches.
One way to fix this is to categorize based on how the food is eaten, not on how it is visually presented. Otherwise the soaring architectures of say, wedding cakes, would be a different category than just cake. But, its not. You still eat it one slice at a time.
posted by vacapinta at 11:32 PM on December 10, 2018 [1 favorite]
Has anyone invented a taco or burrito on a stick?
posted by loquacious at 12:17 AM on December 11, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by loquacious at 12:17 AM on December 11, 2018 [1 favorite]
OK, what about chicken cordon bleu then - or just breaded and fried chicken for that matter - or really batter fried *anything* ?
Chicken cordon bleu is a calzone?
posted by alchemist at 1:14 AM on December 11, 2018
Chicken cordon bleu is a calzone?
posted by alchemist at 1:14 AM on December 11, 2018
Hey! Nuh-uh! What happened to three squares sharing a corner?! (An ice cream cone is neither toast nor taco nor quiche.)
Also: Inception noise.
posted by erniepan at 1:16 AM on December 11, 2018
Also: Inception noise.
posted by erniepan at 1:16 AM on December 11, 2018
I entirely approve of this classification. Though, I'd argue there's a second meaning of sandwich, which describes the entire genus of enfolded foods. In the same way a buffalo is a bison bison and all the skunks I've met are Mephitis mephitis, a quesadilla is a sandwich sandwich, sub-species tortillanses cheeses.
Though, I'd have picked an empanada or pot-sticker as the six-walled archetype. I'm not sure I've ever seen an actual calzone in the wild. I assumed it was as made-up thing designed to fill space on menus on the assumption nobody would ever order one.
posted by eotvos at 1:38 AM on December 11, 2018 [2 favorites]
Though, I'd have picked an empanada or pot-sticker as the six-walled archetype. I'm not sure I've ever seen an actual calzone in the wild. I assumed it was as made-up thing designed to fill space on menus on the assumption nobody would ever order one.
posted by eotvos at 1:38 AM on December 11, 2018 [2 favorites]
Last word on the sandwich here.
"Tomatoes are things that didn't appear for a long time in West Kerry."
posted by Prince Lazy I at 1:48 AM on December 11, 2018
"Tomatoes are things that didn't appear for a long time in West Kerry."
posted by Prince Lazy I at 1:48 AM on December 11, 2018
I'm going to go put a corn dog in a tortilla and use it the whole thing as sandwich filling between a mess of onion rings as bread, then I'm going to cram that in a burrito.
oh my god my fucking brain has really gone into fret mode lately I read that and actually worried for a moment that you didn't take the stick out of the corn dog and would like chip a tooth or something. I think I need more sleep.
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 2:46 AM on December 11, 2018 [4 favorites]
oh my god my fucking brain has really gone into fret mode lately I read that and actually worried for a moment that you didn't take the stick out of the corn dog and would like chip a tooth or something. I think I need more sleep.
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 2:46 AM on December 11, 2018 [4 favorites]
Has anyone invented a taco or burrito on a stick?
Burrito on a stick was patented: US4399156A.
Tacos on a stick was an iCarly gag.
posted by peeedro at 3:22 AM on December 11, 2018 [3 favorites]
Burrito on a stick was patented: US4399156A.
Tacos on a stick was an iCarly gag.
posted by peeedro at 3:22 AM on December 11, 2018 [3 favorites]
Merus: tradition of origin (which is ironclad)
Originalist traditionalism is all well and good, but then you get the radical originalist traditionalists, who argue that all cuisine is either Chinese, Persian or French.
posted by Kattullus at 3:36 AM on December 11, 2018 [2 favorites]
Originalist traditionalism is all well and good, but then you get the radical originalist traditionalists, who argue that all cuisine is either Chinese, Persian or French.
posted by Kattullus at 3:36 AM on December 11, 2018 [2 favorites]
great i read this fpp and now i'm confused and hungry
posted by the painkiller at 4:06 AM on December 11, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by the painkiller at 4:06 AM on December 11, 2018 [1 favorite]
As always, I maintain that nothing is a sandwich.
And time is a closed loop. We're all bread now.
posted by aspersioncast at 4:52 AM on December 11, 2018 [1 favorite]
And time is a closed loop. We're all bread now.
posted by aspersioncast at 4:52 AM on December 11, 2018 [1 favorite]
Wait… do you mean that there is no such thing as a sandwich, or that nothingness is a sandwich?
posted by Kattullus at 5:17 AM on December 11, 2018
posted by Kattullus at 5:17 AM on December 11, 2018
Let's talk about the failure of this taxonomical system as it relates to the classification of pie. So you're trying to tell me that a full pie constitutes either toast, a taco, a quiche, or a calzone, depending on the configuration of crusts and the completeness of the pie. You're arguing that you can change the state of your food product, and thus its tranposition on the matrix, by cutting it into smaller pieces. Let's not dance around it with discrete mathematics; you're talking a continuous function here, son. So we can derive
OK, I'll give you your infinite number of infinitely small tacos. But differentiation goes two ways, so, conversely,
You may have mastered the topological constraints of carbohydrates, goofy sandwich taxonomy, but I will be dead in the ground before I acknowledge that the integral of an infinitely tiny wedge of pumpkin pie (from 0 to 2π) is anything other than pi(e) itself.
posted by Mayor West at 6:22 AM on December 11, 2018 [10 favorites]
lim f(pie)
= { toast, taco }
pie -> 0
OK, I'll give you your infinite number of infinitely small tacos. But differentiation goes two ways, so, conversely,
2π
∱ f (taco) d taco = { calzone, quiche }
0
You may have mastered the topological constraints of carbohydrates, goofy sandwich taxonomy, but I will be dead in the ground before I acknowledge that the integral of an infinitely tiny wedge of pumpkin pie (from 0 to 2π) is anything other than pi(e) itself.
posted by Mayor West at 6:22 AM on December 11, 2018 [10 favorites]
This does make perfect sense. I like it.
At my volunteer job (now closed for the season) we were arguing over whether or not lasagna is a cake. I really wish I could go over there and bring this up. I guess that's all quiche now.
Metafilter: The world went insane and I was too busy going mad to notice.
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:30 AM on December 11, 2018 [5 favorites]
At my volunteer job (now closed for the season) we were arguing over whether or not lasagna is a cake. I really wish I could go over there and bring this up. I guess that's all quiche now.
Metafilter: The world went insane and I was too busy going mad to notice.
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:30 AM on December 11, 2018 [5 favorites]
Then the category for jaw breakers baked in puff pastry then blended, is...
posted by sammyo at 7:01 AM on December 11, 2018
posted by sammyo at 7:01 AM on December 11, 2018
Is there a keto version of this?
Asking for a friend.
posted by TrishaU at 7:01 AM on December 11, 2018
Asking for a friend.
posted by TrishaU at 7:01 AM on December 11, 2018
Foods that belong to the emperor
Pickled ones
Those that require training to prepare
Suckling pigs
Sunmaids (or Syrahs)
Fabulous ones
Stray hot dogs
Those that are included in this classification
Those that wiggle as if they were mad
Innumerable ones
Those whisked with a very fine camel hair brush
Et cetera
Those that are discreetly disposed of in the flower vase
Those that, at a distance, resemble flies
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 7:19 AM on December 11, 2018 [2 favorites]
Pickled ones
Those that require training to prepare
Suckling pigs
Sunmaids (or Syrahs)
Fabulous ones
Stray hot dogs
Those that are included in this classification
Those that wiggle as if they were mad
Innumerable ones
Those whisked with a very fine camel hair brush
Et cetera
Those that are discreetly disposed of in the flower vase
Those that, at a distance, resemble flies
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 7:19 AM on December 11, 2018 [2 favorites]
The main ingredient in toast is heat.
Nigiri sushi is not toast.
posted by davros42 at 7:19 AM on December 11, 2018
Nigiri sushi is not toast.
posted by davros42 at 7:19 AM on December 11, 2018
Jeesus, people. Stop playing with your food and eat the damned sandwich, already.
posted by Big Al 8000 at 9:03 AM on December 11, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by Big Al 8000 at 9:03 AM on December 11, 2018 [1 favorite]
We almost have a full plate of beans now, keep up the good work, everyone.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 9:07 AM on December 11, 2018 [4 favorites]
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 9:07 AM on December 11, 2018 [4 favorites]
So an onion ring is a calzone. So is chicken cordon bleu. And a stuffed baked potato is a taco.
I've never hated the internet more.
posted by The Man from Lardfork at 9:14 AM on December 11, 2018 [4 favorites]
I've never hated the internet more.
posted by The Man from Lardfork at 9:14 AM on December 11, 2018 [4 favorites]
A plate of beans is toast if the plate just came out of the dishwasher cycle.
posted by wellred at 9:15 AM on December 11, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by wellred at 9:15 AM on December 11, 2018 [2 favorites]
What if the starch is on the inside? If I dip a chip into salsa, what ridiculous classification does that fall into? Is it somehow a breakfast cereal?
I have a smoldering anger about this entire conversation that I cannot justify.
posted by The Man from Lardfork at 9:21 AM on December 11, 2018 [2 favorites]
I have a smoldering anger about this entire conversation that I cannot justify.
posted by The Man from Lardfork at 9:21 AM on December 11, 2018 [2 favorites]
Reading the article expanding on Cube Theory made me feel ancient, and slightly dumber.
posted by egypturnash at 10:07 AM on December 11, 2018
posted by egypturnash at 10:07 AM on December 11, 2018
What if the starch is on the inside? If I dip a chip into salsa, what ridiculous classification does that fall into?
There needs to be a category where the starch is both inside and outside. Call it fruitcake; also includes aloo masala, colcannon, crab cakes, nachos, succotash, and tapioca pudding.
posted by peeedro at 10:23 AM on December 11, 2018
There needs to be a category where the starch is both inside and outside. Call it fruitcake; also includes aloo masala, colcannon, crab cakes, nachos, succotash, and tapioca pudding.
posted by peeedro at 10:23 AM on December 11, 2018
Clearly a dipped chip is toast. There's no limitation on having jam on the back side of toast. Nachos are toast. Crab cakes and meatballs require more thought. Perhaps there's an 8th category.
That example pie has been cut is interesting. I assume a whole pie is a calzone and a pie that's been cut in half is a soup. (But then, all pies that isn't aren't just a soupy, savory calzones are terrible and should be torn from recipe books and thrown into the sea.)
posted by eotvos at 10:31 AM on December 11, 2018 [1 favorite]
That example pie has been cut is interesting. I assume a whole pie is a calzone and a pie that's been cut in half is a soup. (But then, all pies that isn't aren't just a soupy, savory calzones are terrible and should be torn from recipe books and thrown into the sea.)
posted by eotvos at 10:31 AM on December 11, 2018 [1 favorite]
this is the metafilter page that i hope is used to capture the meaning of metafilter by archaeologists and/or anthropologists in the distant future. this is just the finest page i can remember reading on metafilter.
thank you all so much.
posted by rude.boy at 10:37 AM on December 11, 2018 [5 favorites]
posted by rude.boy at 10:37 AM on December 11, 2018 [5 favorites]
Dosa is sushi. Gyoza are calzones. Okonomiyaki is toast.
God is dead.
posted by scruffy-looking nerfherder at 11:19 AM on December 11, 2018
God is dead.
posted by scruffy-looking nerfherder at 11:19 AM on December 11, 2018
Note that under this taxonomy Subway used to sell sandwiches, but now they sell... tacos?
posted by mhum at 11:27 AM on December 11, 2018 [2 favorites]
posted by mhum at 11:27 AM on December 11, 2018 [2 favorites]
Wait… do you mean that there is no such thing as a sandwich, or that nothingness is a sandwich?
Yes.
posted by aspersioncast at 11:36 AM on December 11, 2018 [1 favorite]
Yes.
posted by aspersioncast at 11:36 AM on December 11, 2018 [1 favorite]
A hot dog is a taco now?
It's this COMPELLED SPEECH?
I need Jordan Peterson to weigh in. The forces of post modern neo-Marxism can keep their bony misandrist fingers off of my hot dog.
posted by klanawa at 11:56 AM on December 11, 2018
It's this COMPELLED SPEECH?
I need Jordan Peterson to weigh in. The forces of post modern neo-Marxism can keep their bony misandrist fingers off of my hot dog.
posted by klanawa at 11:56 AM on December 11, 2018
WHAT ABOUT CHILAQUILES?
posted by aspersioncast at 12:04 PM on December 11, 2018
posted by aspersioncast at 12:04 PM on December 11, 2018
1, 3, and 5 are topologically identical; other than that this is pretty swell and does offer a bright ontological line between hotdogs and sandwiches.Said the mathematician, before stabbing themself in the eye with a bayonet they mistook for a coffee cup.
posted by eotvos at 1:53 PM on December 11, 2018
So is chicken cordon bleu.
Sorry to be pedantic, but breaded chicken was actually explicitly called out in the original Twitter feed. Because the breading is not a form of structural bread then it qualifies as a type of salad. Unless, of course, you're following a low carb diet and consider chicken a valid bread substitute, in which case chicken cordon bleu is a ketogenic ham and cheese calzone.
posted by OMGTehAwsome at 2:36 PM on December 11, 2018 [2 favorites]
Sorry to be pedantic, but breaded chicken was actually explicitly called out in the original Twitter feed. Because the breading is not a form of structural bread then it qualifies as a type of salad. Unless, of course, you're following a low carb diet and consider chicken a valid bread substitute, in which case chicken cordon bleu is a ketogenic ham and cheese calzone.
posted by OMGTehAwsome at 2:36 PM on December 11, 2018 [2 favorites]
I have long argued that a turducken and a creme egg are a paleo dumpling and a dessert dumpling, respectively, and now that the starch-based category name is calzone, this allows them to stand alone as the true dumplings.
posted by jeather at 6:42 PM on December 11, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by jeather at 6:42 PM on December 11, 2018 [1 favorite]
A wheat field is the one true sandwich. Everything else is either soup (liquids), or salad (solids).
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 6:53 PM on December 11, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 6:53 PM on December 11, 2018 [1 favorite]
Don't you have to find two wheat fields on opposite sides of the planet?
posted by peeedro at 7:21 PM on December 11, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by peeedro at 7:21 PM on December 11, 2018 [1 favorite]
Shepherd's pie is lamb stew shit-on-a-shingle with the potatoes acting as the bread and sitting on top.
Toast.
posted by hippybear at 8:12 PM on December 11, 2018 [2 favorites]
Toast.
posted by hippybear at 8:12 PM on December 11, 2018 [2 favorites]
What amuses me here for unclear reasons is this:
The KFC double-down, with fried chicken as the "bread", does not count as a sandwich, because fried chicken is not a starch. However, the vegan version of the double-down with fried chicken style seitan on the outside, does count as a sandwich, because seitan is a starch.
posted by bile and syntax at 6:12 AM on December 12, 2018 [1 favorite]
The KFC double-down, with fried chicken as the "bread", does not count as a sandwich, because fried chicken is not a starch. However, the vegan version of the double-down with fried chicken style seitan on the outside, does count as a sandwich, because seitan is a starch.
posted by bile and syntax at 6:12 AM on December 12, 2018 [1 favorite]
> What about smoothies? Soup?
Okay well if we want to bring liquids into this, all food is a soup, divided into pre-blender or post-blender categories.
Cereal is a gazpacho.
posted by fragmede at 8:59 AM on December 12, 2018
Okay well if we want to bring liquids into this, all food is a soup, divided into pre-blender or post-blender categories.
Cereal is a gazpacho.
posted by fragmede at 8:59 AM on December 12, 2018
I'm not really convinced that self-similarity is a necessary requirement. Would adherents to the structural/ingredient weltanschauung agree that a BLT sliced latitudionaly becomes two open-face sandwiches? Or that a hard taco shell which cracks along its apex has suddenly become a sandwich?
posted by the man of twists and turns at 9:53 AM on December 12, 2018
posted by the man of twists and turns at 9:53 AM on December 12, 2018
While I'm not sure I actually agree with this. . . one could argue that the intent matters here. Whether the intent of the artist or the viewer is another question, though perhaps both are equally valid.
A hard taco shell that was intentionally broken into halves so that it could be eaten in pieces is either a toast or a non-parallel sandwich, depending on the location of the break and which bits remain attached to the food. A hard taco shell that accidentally falls apart and is then held together and eaten as an unusually messy whole taco is instead a taco. It may be a bad taco; however, a leaky roof is still a roof.
Perhaps more importantly, a soft taco remains a taco throughout the entire production-consumption cycle, even though it has the form of multi-layer toast throughout the majority of its existence. In the mind of everyone involved, a soft taco's essence is that it can be folded into a three-sided structure when held in the hand. Taking one home and leaving it in sandwich form in the refrigerator for three days doesn't change the fact that at the moment of creation and consumption the imagined taco possesses the essence of the taco form. This remains true even if it's fallen to pieces and you have to eat it with a fork, 'cause you left it soaking in pineapple juice for too long. It is only a salad or a soup if that was the active intent behind forgetting one's leftovers.
But, even if I'm not entirely convinced by the above, I'll enthusiastically defend the claim that a latitudinally sliced BLT is exactly equivalent to two toasts, with the caveat that nobody in the history of the world would ever do such a thing.
Chilaquiles and nachos require further consideration, though I think one can make a strong argument for toast, based on functional rather than structural arguments. Perhaps that means an intentionally broken taco is never a sandwich, but always a toast.
posted by eotvos at 2:59 PM on December 15, 2018
A hard taco shell that was intentionally broken into halves so that it could be eaten in pieces is either a toast or a non-parallel sandwich, depending on the location of the break and which bits remain attached to the food. A hard taco shell that accidentally falls apart and is then held together and eaten as an unusually messy whole taco is instead a taco. It may be a bad taco; however, a leaky roof is still a roof.
Perhaps more importantly, a soft taco remains a taco throughout the entire production-consumption cycle, even though it has the form of multi-layer toast throughout the majority of its existence. In the mind of everyone involved, a soft taco's essence is that it can be folded into a three-sided structure when held in the hand. Taking one home and leaving it in sandwich form in the refrigerator for three days doesn't change the fact that at the moment of creation and consumption the imagined taco possesses the essence of the taco form. This remains true even if it's fallen to pieces and you have to eat it with a fork, 'cause you left it soaking in pineapple juice for too long. It is only a salad or a soup if that was the active intent behind forgetting one's leftovers.
But, even if I'm not entirely convinced by the above, I'll enthusiastically defend the claim that a latitudinally sliced BLT is exactly equivalent to two toasts, with the caveat that nobody in the history of the world would ever do such a thing.
Chilaquiles and nachos require further consideration, though I think one can make a strong argument for toast, based on functional rather than structural arguments. Perhaps that means an intentionally broken taco is never a sandwich, but always a toast.
posted by eotvos at 2:59 PM on December 15, 2018
« Older Reconsidering the Jewish American Princess | If you can read this, leave me alone I'm watching... Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
posted by hippybear at 7:58 PM on December 10, 2018 [2 favorites]