Who were the Pinkertons?
February 2, 2019 1:55 PM Subscribe
The modern day descendants of the Pinkerton Agency are suing Rockstar games for how the Pinkertons are depicted in RDR2
But who are the Pinkertons? Think old timey Blackwater. Strike breakers and hired muscle for terrible people, who liked to glorify themselves as private detectives.
The past mid-deeds of the Pinkerton Agency are historical record however, so it remains to be seen if this lawsuit is viable.
But who are the Pinkertons? Think old timey Blackwater. Strike breakers and hired muscle for terrible people, who liked to glorify themselves as private detectives.
The past mid-deeds of the Pinkerton Agency are historical record however, so it remains to be seen if this lawsuit is viable.
> the company’s president, Jack Zahran, emphasized the harm he felt the game had done to the company’s historical reputation... Zahran asked me, “Is it open season on companies that have achieved longevity? What’s next? A game where Coca-Cola poisons mankind?”
He thinks that's a good analogy... and so do I, but for different reasons.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 2:31 PM on February 2, 2019 [57 favorites]
He thinks that's a good analogy... and so do I, but for different reasons.
posted by Sing Or Swim at 2:31 PM on February 2, 2019 [57 favorites]
probably they shouldn't have historically murdered all those people for money then
posted by poffin boffin at 2:33 PM on February 2, 2019 [110 favorites]
posted by poffin boffin at 2:33 PM on February 2, 2019 [110 favorites]
Lol, historical reputation? I know only bad things about the Pinkertons, that IS their reputation.
posted by stillnocturnal at 2:39 PM on February 2, 2019 [33 favorites]
posted by stillnocturnal at 2:39 PM on February 2, 2019 [33 favorites]
If your reputation is worth so little to you that you were willing to sell it for a cut of the cash, your outrage about it being sullied is likely to ring just a little hollow.
posted by howfar at 2:39 PM on February 2, 2019 [4 favorites]
posted by howfar at 2:39 PM on February 2, 2019 [4 favorites]
I was gonna make a Wolfenstein joke but I'm concerned that actual american nazis did actually protest the game in 2017 and I just forgot because of the 100,000 other stupid horrible things that have happened since then.
posted by poffin boffin at 2:41 PM on February 2, 2019 [12 favorites]
posted by poffin boffin at 2:41 PM on February 2, 2019 [12 favorites]
sadly re: Wolfenstein...
posted by Homo neanderthalensis at 2:45 PM on February 2, 2019 [4 favorites]
posted by Homo neanderthalensis at 2:45 PM on February 2, 2019 [4 favorites]
Pinkertons are like cops who don't even pretend they answer to anyone but rich people. That's the legacy of your company, and good luck whitewashing it when the blood keeps seeping through and mixing with the whitewash.
posted by sciatrix at 2:48 PM on February 2, 2019 [25 favorites]
posted by sciatrix at 2:48 PM on February 2, 2019 [25 favorites]
My visions of locusts return. I see Pinkertons coming in swarms.
posted by thelonius at 2:57 PM on February 2, 2019 [10 favorites]
posted by thelonius at 2:57 PM on February 2, 2019 [10 favorites]
Um.....anyone remember Deadwood? They've had tons of things they could have sued over before RDR2. Sounds to me like someone just spending some cash on a lawsuit to get publicity.
posted by Room 101 at 3:23 PM on February 2, 2019 [9 favorites]
posted by Room 101 at 3:23 PM on February 2, 2019 [9 favorites]
This lawsuit is purely to remind David Koch and Howard Schulz that the Pinkertons still exist.
posted by saladin at 3:41 PM on February 2, 2019 [19 favorites]
posted by saladin at 3:41 PM on February 2, 2019 [19 favorites]
I remember my German stepmom being a bit upset about Wolfenstein-3D in the 90s. But then, she loved westerns and had no problem with indians as cannon fodder.
Is there any actual historical precedent for successful lawsuits about fictional characters what aren't closely based on particular people? And how many for ones that are? I seem to remember reading that one of the villains in Titanic uses the name of a guy who actually acted selfless and heroic during the tragedy. Surely the Pinkertons are old enough that you're legally allowed to say whatever the hell you want about them.
posted by es_de_bah at 3:59 PM on February 2, 2019 [2 favorites]
Is there any actual historical precedent for successful lawsuits about fictional characters what aren't closely based on particular people? And how many for ones that are? I seem to remember reading that one of the villains in Titanic uses the name of a guy who actually acted selfless and heroic during the tragedy. Surely the Pinkertons are old enough that you're legally allowed to say whatever the hell you want about them.
posted by es_de_bah at 3:59 PM on February 2, 2019 [2 favorites]
The Pinkertons didn't come off too well in The Long Riders either.
posted by Ber at 4:01 PM on February 2, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by Ber at 4:01 PM on February 2, 2019 [2 favorites]
At least from the main article, it appears they are relying on trademark law, which doesn't have a time limit.
posted by tavella at 4:05 PM on February 2, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by tavella at 4:05 PM on February 2, 2019 [1 favorite]
They're not exactly well thought of here in Pittsburgh.
posted by octothorpe at 4:09 PM on February 2, 2019 [10 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 4:09 PM on February 2, 2019 [10 favorites]
good luck whitewashing it when the blood keeps seeping through
They can always try Boraxo!
posted by Harvey Kilobit at 5:17 PM on February 2, 2019 [4 favorites]
They can always try Boraxo!
posted by Harvey Kilobit at 5:17 PM on February 2, 2019 [4 favorites]
Um.....anyone remember Deadwood?
That was my first thought--*that* was okay with them??
posted by A Terrible Llama at 5:24 PM on February 2, 2019 [5 favorites]
That was my first thought--*that* was okay with them??
posted by A Terrible Llama at 5:24 PM on February 2, 2019 [5 favorites]
The history of the Pinkertons is more varied than I think most people are probably aware. They certainly did specialize in union-busting, and it's (not unfairly) what they are remembered for, but they also did quite a bit of other stuff.
In particular, prior to the creation of the FBI (1908), the Pinkerton Agency was one of the only avenues for tracking down missing or absconded persons across state lines, and even across national borders.
Pinkerton detectives even accidentally led to some interesting Supreme Court precedent, specifically Ker v. Illinois, when they followed an embezzler (Frederick Ker) all the way to Peru during the "Saltpeter War" of 1879-1884 (as an interesting note, this war is why Bolivia has a navy despite being landlocked). The US had an extradition treaty with Peru, but due to the occupation of Lima by Chilean forces at the time, things were a bit, uh... legally murky. The detective hauled his ass back regardless, oddly with help from the Chileans, leading to the court case. (tl;dr: the USSC decided it didn't give a shit how he ended up back in los Estados Unidos, only that he did, somehow.)
Perhaps most notably, Pinkerton detectives tracked and arrested serial killer H.H. Holmes. Though Detective Geyer (of the Philadelphia PD) generally gets the lion's share of the credit (perhaps related to writing a book immediately after the fact, and he did build the case), but the Pinkertons—working at the behest of the insurance companies—actually nabbed Holmes in the flesh.
Overall, the Pinkertons are a telltale as to what national law enforcement would look like in the absence of one provided provided by the state, and delivered only by the free market. It's not pretty.
posted by Kadin2048 at 6:16 PM on February 2, 2019 [55 favorites]
In particular, prior to the creation of the FBI (1908), the Pinkerton Agency was one of the only avenues for tracking down missing or absconded persons across state lines, and even across national borders.
Pinkerton detectives even accidentally led to some interesting Supreme Court precedent, specifically Ker v. Illinois, when they followed an embezzler (Frederick Ker) all the way to Peru during the "Saltpeter War" of 1879-1884 (as an interesting note, this war is why Bolivia has a navy despite being landlocked). The US had an extradition treaty with Peru, but due to the occupation of Lima by Chilean forces at the time, things were a bit, uh... legally murky. The detective hauled his ass back regardless, oddly with help from the Chileans, leading to the court case. (tl;dr: the USSC decided it didn't give a shit how he ended up back in los Estados Unidos, only that he did, somehow.)
Perhaps most notably, Pinkerton detectives tracked and arrested serial killer H.H. Holmes. Though Detective Geyer (of the Philadelphia PD) generally gets the lion's share of the credit (perhaps related to writing a book immediately after the fact, and he did build the case), but the Pinkertons—working at the behest of the insurance companies—actually nabbed Holmes in the flesh.
Overall, the Pinkertons are a telltale as to what national law enforcement would look like in the absence of one provided provided by the state, and delivered only by the free market. It's not pretty.
posted by Kadin2048 at 6:16 PM on February 2, 2019 [55 favorites]
Nothing to do with the second Weezer album, I think.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 7:17 PM on February 2, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 7:17 PM on February 2, 2019 [2 favorites]
Well, I don't know 'bout you guys, but I prefer the Pinker Tones myself. They've never killed anyone (to my knowledge), but they do have killer beats.
posted by los pantalones del muerte at 10:15 PM on February 2, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by los pantalones del muerte at 10:15 PM on February 2, 2019 [1 favorite]
anyway i hope huge poisonous murder crabs sue bioware for how they are depicted as villainous huge poisonous murder crabs in anthem
posted by poffin boffin at 7:27 AM on February 3, 2019 [5 favorites]
posted by poffin boffin at 7:27 AM on February 3, 2019 [5 favorites]
I think this may be a small bit of evidence that the Pinkerton class -- the guard labor who win their bread by suppressing the pained shouts of the underclasses -- is beginning to feel the slightest bit of pressure, with a handful of reputable and popular left politicians talking about things like raising the rates on the highest income brackets and abolishing private health insurance.
"Pinkerton" is a slur that you can really wrap your arms around and understand, in the way that a Western is almost always an allegory for something that is happening *now*, rather than the 19th century. If they can muddy the waters and make it "complex" rather than a straightforward spitting insult, they will have won a small battle of rhetoric.
We're seeing this pushback now, rather than the previous century of Pinkerton-deprecating popular culture, because rich interests are no longer so sure that they can afford to put up with even small slights, lest they build into real opposition. Any rhetoric that suggests they are not benevolent technocrats tweaking interest rates and wisely investing for everyones' betterment, instead of shadowy masters lurking in darkness and counting their stacks of gold, must be made "complex" (thus boring and not a locus of thought) if not eliminated.
It's not much, maybe, but a positive development.
In other words, the Pinkertons are clearly the bad guys of history, and the bad guys of today need the culture to be less certain of that. Otherwise, they might get the idea that such obvious evil still exists under different names in the present.
posted by LiteOpera at 6:24 AM on February 4, 2019 [2 favorites]
"Pinkerton" is a slur that you can really wrap your arms around and understand, in the way that a Western is almost always an allegory for something that is happening *now*, rather than the 19th century. If they can muddy the waters and make it "complex" rather than a straightforward spitting insult, they will have won a small battle of rhetoric.
We're seeing this pushback now, rather than the previous century of Pinkerton-deprecating popular culture, because rich interests are no longer so sure that they can afford to put up with even small slights, lest they build into real opposition. Any rhetoric that suggests they are not benevolent technocrats tweaking interest rates and wisely investing for everyones' betterment, instead of shadowy masters lurking in darkness and counting their stacks of gold, must be made "complex" (thus boring and not a locus of thought) if not eliminated.
It's not much, maybe, but a positive development.
In other words, the Pinkertons are clearly the bad guys of history, and the bad guys of today need the culture to be less certain of that. Otherwise, they might get the idea that such obvious evil still exists under different names in the present.
posted by LiteOpera at 6:24 AM on February 4, 2019 [2 favorites]
I’m a descendant of Irish coal miners who were involved in the Molly Maguires, who were brutally suppressed by the Pinkerton. I should be suing those descendants!
posted by jonp72 at 8:03 AM on February 4, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by jonp72 at 8:03 AM on February 4, 2019 [1 favorite]
As a Colorado native, my opinion is that the Pinkertons (and Securitas AB by association) can go fuck themselves with their reputations.
it appears they are relying on trademark law, which doesn't have a time limit.
I know there's no set expiration date, but doesn't US trademark law also require you to use the trademark in commerce or lose it?
Man, the Pinkertons. Did y'all know there's actually an act preventing the federal government from hiring private investigators or mercenaries? It's literally called the Anti-Pinkerton Act. Of course the military has a pass in practice because 'Merica.
Also Dashiell Hammett was a Pinkerton investigator, which is part of how he ended up in the pulp fiction racket.
posted by aspersioncast at 5:28 PM on February 4, 2019 [6 favorites]
it appears they are relying on trademark law, which doesn't have a time limit.
I know there's no set expiration date, but doesn't US trademark law also require you to use the trademark in commerce or lose it?
Man, the Pinkertons. Did y'all know there's actually an act preventing the federal government from hiring private investigators or mercenaries? It's literally called the Anti-Pinkerton Act. Of course the military has a pass in practice because 'Merica.
Also Dashiell Hammett was a Pinkerton investigator, which is part of how he ended up in the pulp fiction racket.
posted by aspersioncast at 5:28 PM on February 4, 2019 [6 favorites]
The Continental Op stories that Hammet wrote based on his experiences as a Pinkerton are a fun read.
posted by octothorpe at 4:53 AM on February 5, 2019
posted by octothorpe at 4:53 AM on February 5, 2019
I'm glad these people are reminding us they exist so I can curse them and their descendents too.
posted by GoblinHoney at 11:06 AM on February 5, 2019 [3 favorites]
posted by GoblinHoney at 11:06 AM on February 5, 2019 [3 favorites]
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posted by poffin boffin at 2:23 PM on February 2, 2019 [38 favorites]