"Well, that ruined everything."
February 25, 2019 7:56 AM Subscribe
A massive crash takes out 21 cars at once near the end of the 2019 Daytona 500 (no serious injuries).
Hoo boy. I hope the driver the of number 10 car was wearing diapers.
posted by NoMich at 8:16 AM on February 25, 2019
posted by NoMich at 8:16 AM on February 25, 2019
In the NASCAR parlance, this is what's known as a "Big One". They tend to happen a lot.
Nascar's Greatest Big One's #1
Nascar's Greatest Big One's #2
The temptation is to try to tie it all to Trump's America, or the south's ongoing inability to reconcile the Civil War, but in the end, it seems just a uniquely American "entertainment". The inevitable result of doing gridlock at close to 200 mph.
posted by philip-random at 8:32 AM on February 25, 2019 [2 favorites]
Nascar's Greatest Big One's #1
Nascar's Greatest Big One's #2
The temptation is to try to tie it all to Trump's America, or the south's ongoing inability to reconcile the Civil War, but in the end, it seems just a uniquely American "entertainment". The inevitable result of doing gridlock at close to 200 mph.
posted by philip-random at 8:32 AM on February 25, 2019 [2 favorites]
From that wiki link:
One of the first times the term "The Big One" was used on-air was during the Winston 500 on ESPN October 11, 1998. Commentator Bob Jenkins said during the crash on lap 134 "this is the big one we hoped we would not have."
It's worth noting. In the context of Big Ones, when a NASCAR commentator suggests they were hoping it wouldn't happen, what they really mean is they were hoping it would. Good for biz.
posted by philip-random at 8:35 AM on February 25, 2019 [5 favorites]
One of the first times the term "The Big One" was used on-air was during the Winston 500 on ESPN October 11, 1998. Commentator Bob Jenkins said during the crash on lap 134 "this is the big one we hoped we would not have."
It's worth noting. In the context of Big Ones, when a NASCAR commentator suggests they were hoping it wouldn't happen, what they really mean is they were hoping it would. Good for biz.
posted by philip-random at 8:35 AM on February 25, 2019 [5 favorites]
...but is there more info on what happened to cause the conflagration?
Well, if you want to get technical about it, this all comes down to NASCAR's specifications/formula for these cars, which has the effect of making the cars race bunched-up and be pretty squirrely at speed on superspeedways. Essentially, the cars are heavy, the tires too skinny, and the aerodynamics compromised. There's also the effect of the engine restrictor plate that these cars use on superspeedways, which has the effect of making the power delivery sluggish and encourages the type of bunched-up draft racing here.
Essentially, NASCAR designs wrecking into the formula.
Thankfully, this was the last of the restrictor plate races.
posted by Thorzdad at 8:38 AM on February 25, 2019 [19 favorites]
Well, if you want to get technical about it, this all comes down to NASCAR's specifications/formula for these cars, which has the effect of making the cars race bunched-up and be pretty squirrely at speed on superspeedways. Essentially, the cars are heavy, the tires too skinny, and the aerodynamics compromised. There's also the effect of the engine restrictor plate that these cars use on superspeedways, which has the effect of making the power delivery sluggish and encourages the type of bunched-up draft racing here.
Essentially, NASCAR designs wrecking into the formula.
Thankfully, this was the last of the restrictor plate races.
posted by Thorzdad at 8:38 AM on February 25, 2019 [19 favorites]
thanks, Thorzdad -- I didn't catch that news about the end of restrictor plates. Now, if NASCAR can just get rid of its inane stage racing, I might get back to watching ...
posted by philip-random at 8:47 AM on February 25, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by philip-random at 8:47 AM on February 25, 2019 [1 favorite]
This is not the first thing that comes to mind for me when you bring up The Clash.
posted by Naberius at 8:47 AM on February 25, 2019 [5 favorites]
posted by Naberius at 8:47 AM on February 25, 2019 [5 favorites]
I listened to the color commentary and it turns out that the one dude was deliberately trying to bump the other dude, not out of malice but to push him ahead so that he could win. But he hit him a smidge too hard and too far to the right. I hate this crap frantically. Feverishly. All day and with both hands and feet I hate it. I have to go to god damned gator nationals this year because apparently it's the fiftieth anniversary, so People Want To Go and I missed it last year due to I hate it so this year I must so that we can All Go Together. I'm going to get my feelings out here so that I don't ruin people's good time. It's going to be about 120 degrees and packed full of screaming fans and I am going to hate every single second of it. I am not looking forward to any big dumb pileups like this, either, because it will just make it EVEN LOUDER and take EVEN LONGER.
posted by Don Pepino at 9:32 AM on February 25, 2019 [9 favorites]
posted by Don Pepino at 9:32 AM on February 25, 2019 [9 favorites]
All day and with both hands and feet I hate it. I have to go to god damned gator nationals this year because apparently it's the fiftieth anniversary, so People Want To Go and I missed it last year due to I hate it so this year I must so that we can All Go Together.Why do you have to go if you hate it so much? I mean, opt out!
NASCAR is dumb. There, I said it.
posted by uberchet at 9:51 AM on February 25, 2019 [1 favorite]
I have to go to god damned gator nationals this year...I am not looking forward to any big dumb pileups like this, either, because it will just make it EVEN LOUDER and take EVEN LONGER.
Aren't the Gatornationals a drag race event? I mean, I know they occasionally have accidents, but it isn't intentionally baked into the formula the way NASCAR racing is. Or, is it just auto racing in-general you hate?
posted by Thorzdad at 9:57 AM on February 25, 2019
Aren't the Gatornationals a drag race event? I mean, I know they occasionally have accidents, but it isn't intentionally baked into the formula the way NASCAR racing is. Or, is it just auto racing in-general you hate?
posted by Thorzdad at 9:57 AM on February 25, 2019
I know if you're a race fan you're used to this, but I still find all the race car branding hysterical, especially in this context. Oh no, that took a slice off the deli meat car! The Kleenex/Cottonelle car got crumpled up like a tissue! I mean, I can laugh here because no one was seriously hurt. It's a different story if the last thing someone sees is a giant flaming wreck emblazoned with "Cottonelle Flushable Wipes" smashing through their windshield.
posted by phooky at 10:09 AM on February 25, 2019 [10 favorites]
posted by phooky at 10:09 AM on February 25, 2019 [10 favorites]
I've not watched NASCAR for quite a few years, but in prior times all this sparking was completely absent. What change to the design causes the extensive metal rubbing now (and clearly a metal that sparks)?
posted by Bovine Love at 10:16 AM on February 25, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by Bovine Love at 10:16 AM on February 25, 2019 [1 favorite]
So a lot of the sparks were just from hard braking? They seemed to be coming from a lot of cars that hadn't yet made any contact.
posted by srboisvert at 10:21 AM on February 25, 2019
posted by srboisvert at 10:21 AM on February 25, 2019
I'm not a great fan of NASCAR racing in general, but I can appreciate how difficult it is to keep it together for 500 miles, traveling the speeds they are traveling, with tires wearing out and the performance and handling of your car dependent on the position of those cars very close to you, and innumerable other details. It is completely unsurprising that this occurred near the very end of the race, where the "now or never" mentality comes to the fore in any racers mind. I think Thorzdad has it right: intentionally or not, the massive pile-up potential is baked-into the NASCAR way of doing things.
posted by coppertop at 10:22 AM on February 25, 2019
posted by coppertop at 10:22 AM on February 25, 2019
Bovine Love, I think they used to use fiberglass body shells. They probably switched (back) to steel body shells because newer sheet steels are lighter, thinner and stronger than they used to be.
They also probably run cars lower on smoother tracks, and with skid plates/armor under the car.
posted by loquacious at 10:24 AM on February 25, 2019 [1 favorite]
They also probably run cars lower on smoother tracks, and with skid plates/armor under the car.
posted by loquacious at 10:24 AM on February 25, 2019 [1 favorite]
Also the cameras are getting better, they can pick up a lot more light with a lot more clarity under low-light conditions, so you don't realize just how dark out it is until the sparks -- normally not visible under the sun -- jump out like that.
posted by davejay at 10:29 AM on February 25, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by davejay at 10:29 AM on February 25, 2019 [1 favorite]
NASCAR is only fun if you’re the kind of sucker who likes things like “equality” and “competitive” “racing”.
For viewers of more refined taste, you can watch teams spend 100 times as much to play follow-the-leader in F1.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 10:30 AM on February 25, 2019
For viewers of more refined taste, you can watch teams spend 100 times as much to play follow-the-leader in F1.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 10:30 AM on February 25, 2019
MetaFilter: use special reinforced toothpicks
posted by Splunge at 10:32 AM on February 25, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by Splunge at 10:32 AM on February 25, 2019 [1 favorite]
Another thread for MeFi to "lol redneck NASCAR dummies lolz" about. Yay!
I've got lots of issues with rednecks and whatever, but NASCAR isn't one of them. I've been a big fan since I was small kid, and I'm not even American. Though as suggested earlier, my fandom's been seriously checked by a recent major change in how they run their races -- the so-called Stage format.
The only thing I can liken it to would be if Major League Baseball rounded up the score after five innings, so that whoever was leading now had only a one run lead.
posted by philip-random at 10:34 AM on February 25, 2019 [3 favorites]
I've got lots of issues with rednecks and whatever, but NASCAR isn't one of them. I've been a big fan since I was small kid, and I'm not even American. Though as suggested earlier, my fandom's been seriously checked by a recent major change in how they run their races -- the so-called Stage format.
The only thing I can liken it to would be if Major League Baseball rounded up the score after five innings, so that whoever was leading now had only a one run lead.
posted by philip-random at 10:34 AM on February 25, 2019 [3 favorites]
A note about how The Big One evolved: when high speed "super speedway" tracks started getting built, the cars didn't have to slow down for turns, so speeds began to exceed 200mph and drivers started to boycott races at that speed.
Rather than rebuilding or modifying the tracks, which would have been very expensive, the NASCAR organization mandated cars be slowed by "restrictor plates" (limiting maximum air intake, and thus power, in the engines.)
The end result: cars' performance is not differentiated by relative performance in turns or straights, so all we have left is driver skill, reliability and aerodynamics. Cars cluster together due to equal power and run substantially faster when clustered (those aerodynamic effects) so drivers have to stay that way or risk falling way behind.
There's no incentive for NASCAR to fix it, because fans love it, so drivers do their best to avoid it -- the best drivers tend to hang back at the cluster's tail for much of the race to stay out of most trouble, then rush up near the end and hope they are in front of any trouble at the end.
By the way, most commentators are themselves ex-drivers, so their dismay at The Big One is genuine.
posted by davejay at 10:39 AM on February 25, 2019 [8 favorites]
Rather than rebuilding or modifying the tracks, which would have been very expensive, the NASCAR organization mandated cars be slowed by "restrictor plates" (limiting maximum air intake, and thus power, in the engines.)
The end result: cars' performance is not differentiated by relative performance in turns or straights, so all we have left is driver skill, reliability and aerodynamics. Cars cluster together due to equal power and run substantially faster when clustered (those aerodynamic effects) so drivers have to stay that way or risk falling way behind.
There's no incentive for NASCAR to fix it, because fans love it, so drivers do their best to avoid it -- the best drivers tend to hang back at the cluster's tail for much of the race to stay out of most trouble, then rush up near the end and hope they are in front of any trouble at the end.
By the way, most commentators are themselves ex-drivers, so their dismay at The Big One is genuine.
posted by davejay at 10:39 AM on February 25, 2019 [8 favorites]
by the way, cars were a lot less safe and a lot more stock when those 200+ speeds were being hit, so it was a much bigger deal in that context
posted by davejay at 10:41 AM on February 25, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by davejay at 10:41 AM on February 25, 2019 [2 favorites]
This is actually a perfect metaphor for what's going to happen to the over-revved global economy when global warming causes a key player to collapse -- except for the lack of fatalities.
posted by jamjam at 10:50 AM on February 25, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by jamjam at 10:50 AM on February 25, 2019 [1 favorite]
In your metaphor, we aren't the drivers, we're the quarter panels, tires, and brakes.
If they're ditching the restrictor plates how are they going to keep the cars at relatively sane speeds with four tires on the track?
posted by cmfletcher at 11:00 AM on February 25, 2019
If they're ditching the restrictor plates how are they going to keep the cars at relatively sane speeds with four tires on the track?
posted by cmfletcher at 11:00 AM on February 25, 2019
NASCAR is sort of a weird animal. It's like they can't decide if it's supposed to be a team event about who can field the best and most-performant racecar, or if it's an individual event pitting one driver against the next in a contest of pure skill.
I think they'd do better if they picked one or the other, but OTOH it's popular as hell so what do I know.
Personally I'd like to see a "one design" endurance race where everyone had to drive, like, stock Chevy Cruzes with no modifications other than a roll cage and fuel cell.
And then on the other end of the spectrum, have a totally unlimited race where the only rule was fuel flow rate. You could start at the current F1 limit (105 kg/hr I think? 110?) but go down by 5kg/hr per year. Just to see what the big teams and automakers could come up with. I bet they would find some really great ways of wringing performance out of limited fuel burn.
posted by Kadin2048 at 11:01 AM on February 25, 2019 [5 favorites]
I think they'd do better if they picked one or the other, but OTOH it's popular as hell so what do I know.
Personally I'd like to see a "one design" endurance race where everyone had to drive, like, stock Chevy Cruzes with no modifications other than a roll cage and fuel cell.
And then on the other end of the spectrum, have a totally unlimited race where the only rule was fuel flow rate. You could start at the current F1 limit (105 kg/hr I think? 110?) but go down by 5kg/hr per year. Just to see what the big teams and automakers could come up with. I bet they would find some really great ways of wringing performance out of limited fuel burn.
posted by Kadin2048 at 11:01 AM on February 25, 2019 [5 favorites]
it's popular as hell so what do I know.
maybe not that popular anymore ...
posted by philip-random at 11:40 AM on February 25, 2019
maybe not that popular anymore ...
posted by philip-random at 11:40 AM on February 25, 2019
NASCAR is only fun if you’re the kind of sucker who likes things like “equality” and “competitive” “racing”.
For viewers of more refined taste, you can watch teams spend 100 times as much to play follow-the-leader in F1.
meanwhile, rally racing does a Scandinavian flick around the corner, spraying fetid mud in both NASCAR and F1's faces, and then zooms off turbo hissing after the apex
posted by invitapriore at 11:43 AM on February 25, 2019 [3 favorites]
For viewers of more refined taste, you can watch teams spend 100 times as much to play follow-the-leader in F1.
meanwhile, rally racing does a Scandinavian flick around the corner, spraying fetid mud in both NASCAR and F1's faces, and then zooms off turbo hissing after the apex
posted by invitapriore at 11:43 AM on February 25, 2019 [3 favorites]
Well, if you want to get technical about it, this all comes down to NASCAR's specifications/formula for these cars, which has the effect of making the cars race bunched-up and be pretty squirrely at speed on superspeedways. Essentially, the cars are heavy, the tires too skinny, and the aerodynamics compromised. There's also the effect of the engine restrictor plate that these cars use on superspeedways, which has the effect of making the power delivery sluggish and encourages the type of bunched-up draft racing here.
Essentially, NASCAR designs wrecking into the formula.
The alternative is to have cars approaching 250 mph on the Super Speedways that would cause the slighted bump to send cars airborne and possibly into the stands, impacting safety of everyone (i.e. when Bobby Allison went airborne and into the stands at Tallegadga in 1987). The restrictor plate and other limitations were a trade off based on the issues of just going hog wild in terms of speed.
Thankfully, this was the last of the restrictor plate races.
Tapered spacers and increased drag in the required packages will have the same effect more or less in that they limit horse power and bunch of cars as the restrictor plates did. It really won't be that different.
posted by jmauro at 11:48 AM on February 25, 2019 [1 favorite]
Essentially, NASCAR designs wrecking into the formula.
The alternative is to have cars approaching 250 mph on the Super Speedways that would cause the slighted bump to send cars airborne and possibly into the stands, impacting safety of everyone (i.e. when Bobby Allison went airborne and into the stands at Tallegadga in 1987). The restrictor plate and other limitations were a trade off based on the issues of just going hog wild in terms of speed.
Thankfully, this was the last of the restrictor plate races.
Tapered spacers and increased drag in the required packages will have the same effect more or less in that they limit horse power and bunch of cars as the restrictor plates did. It really won't be that different.
posted by jmauro at 11:48 AM on February 25, 2019 [1 favorite]
is it just auto racing in-general you hate
It's anything hot and crowded with loud engine noise and a competition I don't give a crap about. So things I would otherwise love, like lawnmower racing and swamp buggies and monster trucks, I have this unfortunate condition where I hate the shit out of those things. Sad: I miss out on a lot of wonderful experiences because of this whole thing where I hate earsplitting noise, insane heat, and sitting for many hours on incandescent aluminum bleachers squinting through the radiance at a competition the outcome of which I cannot interest myself in and nestled among crowds and crowds of other people all enduring the earsplitting noise and insane heat along with me. Not this year, though! I'm sure not going to miss out this year!
posted by Don Pepino at 12:34 PM on February 25, 2019 [6 favorites]
It's anything hot and crowded with loud engine noise and a competition I don't give a crap about. So things I would otherwise love, like lawnmower racing and swamp buggies and monster trucks, I have this unfortunate condition where I hate the shit out of those things. Sad: I miss out on a lot of wonderful experiences because of this whole thing where I hate earsplitting noise, insane heat, and sitting for many hours on incandescent aluminum bleachers squinting through the radiance at a competition the outcome of which I cannot interest myself in and nestled among crowds and crowds of other people all enduring the earsplitting noise and insane heat along with me. Not this year, though! I'm sure not going to miss out this year!
posted by Don Pepino at 12:34 PM on February 25, 2019 [6 favorites]
meanwhile, rally racing does a Scandinavian flick around the corner,
a. rallying is astonishing to me, particularly the upper levels of it,
b. it's nevertheless just one car at a time on a given piece of track which, for me, removes perhaps the single most compelling aspect of racing -- the epistemological satisfaction of a great overtake.
posted by philip-random at 1:21 PM on February 25, 2019 [1 favorite]
a. rallying is astonishing to me, particularly the upper levels of it,
b. it's nevertheless just one car at a time on a given piece of track which, for me, removes perhaps the single most compelling aspect of racing -- the epistemological satisfaction of a great overtake.
posted by philip-random at 1:21 PM on February 25, 2019 [1 favorite]
Maybe you should try flat track roller derby. Same bleachers, not as noisy, fewer fatalities.
Better still, bring your own lawn chair and sit in the 'suicide ring'. Hardly any deaths ever, but maybe a spilled beer or two.
posted by Capt. Renault at 1:51 PM on February 25, 2019 [1 favorite]
Better still, bring your own lawn chair and sit in the 'suicide ring'. Hardly any deaths ever, but maybe a spilled beer or two.
posted by Capt. Renault at 1:51 PM on February 25, 2019 [1 favorite]
I LOVE ROLLER DERBY
posted by Don Pepino at 2:14 PM on February 25, 2019 [3 favorites]
posted by Don Pepino at 2:14 PM on February 25, 2019 [3 favorites]
Big NASCAR fan here. I go back when they were stock cars. Not worth arguing here, but I leave you with the tip of never hug a driver after a race. 500 miles and the only place to go is in the suit.
posted by AugustWest at 2:30 PM on February 25, 2019
posted by AugustWest at 2:30 PM on February 25, 2019
I grew up within sight of a NASCAR track on the Winston Cup series. I never once went to a race and still feel much the same way as Don Pepino does.
posted by infinitewindow at 5:03 AM on February 26, 2019
posted by infinitewindow at 5:03 AM on February 26, 2019
And that, dear hearts, is where baby billboards comes from.
posted by sonascope at 6:12 AM on February 26, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by sonascope at 6:12 AM on February 26, 2019 [2 favorites]
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posted by Huffy Puffy at 8:08 AM on February 25, 2019 [6 favorites]