Tragedy in Christchurch
March 14, 2019 10:00 PM Subscribe
Multiple mosques in Christchurch, NZ have been attacked; at least one suspect in custody; New Zealand's Darkest Day (Guardian). At least 27 dead, with 50 injured, while the shooter livestreamed the atrocity.. Yet another day where I have no words for the evil that has unfurled.
Thanks, LeRoienJaune. The most current venting thread expired so I have put another in the MetaTalk queue because fucking fuck, I need to vent about this but prefer not to drag down the blue.
posted by Bella Donna at 10:12 PM on March 14, 2019 [9 favorites]
posted by Bella Donna at 10:12 PM on March 14, 2019 [9 favorites]
Agree. Too close to it.
posted by Samuel Farrow at 10:14 PM on March 14, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by Samuel Farrow at 10:14 PM on March 14, 2019 [2 favorites]
I haven't cried about a shooting event since Orlando, but this one has really fucking pissed me off in a way I wasn't expecting. Fuck those fucks! Goddammit!
posted by hippybear at 10:15 PM on March 14, 2019 [6 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 10:15 PM on March 14, 2019 [6 favorites]
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posted by Joe in Australia at 10:16 PM on March 14, 2019
posted by Joe in Australia at 10:16 PM on March 14, 2019
BBC and NYT as well - three men and one woman. The police also found bombs on cars.
posted by reductiondesign at 10:17 PM on March 14, 2019
posted by reductiondesign at 10:17 PM on March 14, 2019
The NZ news website Stuff is likely to have the most up to date information.
posted by poxandplague at 10:19 PM on March 14, 2019 [5 favorites]
posted by poxandplague at 10:19 PM on March 14, 2019 [5 favorites]
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posted by Little Dawn at 10:22 PM on March 14, 2019
posted by Little Dawn at 10:22 PM on March 14, 2019
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There's an Islamic college and mosque a door down from me. It's still pretty close to school pickup right now here in Australia, and usually I can hear the children playing while they wait to be collected. Not today. Silent as a grave.
I hear them before school, too, loud and boisterous as kids are, I hear their parents shouting at them that they love them, that they hope they have a good day, in voices that sound as broadly Australian as my own, and I hear the Arabic and Bahasa and other medley of tongues as well, and I can't imagine they're saying much different. Eat your lunch, listen to your teacher. Be good. I'll see you soon. I love you.
Can you imagine that? Can you imagine that kind of simple, common love being so terrifying that the only thing you can do is murder them? That you'd find them in their most peaceful place, those mothers and fathers and children, someone's sons and daughters and most beloved child, and shoot them for the sin of not being white enough, not being hateful and bitter and closed off? Shot at prayer. I can only take some sort of comfort in that they died in the ear of God, and if I believed in any sort of Allfather that he couldn't do anything but hear.
I can imagine heartbreak, but not heartbreak strong enough for Christchurch right now. I want to go and just do something, anything, to show those kids and their families that they're welcome here, they're just as much a part of this place as anyone else. I don't know how to do that without making this about me, my own sorrow and horror, so I'm just staying here, feeling useless and dirty by association.
posted by Jilder at 10:23 PM on March 14, 2019 [183 favorites]
There's an Islamic college and mosque a door down from me. It's still pretty close to school pickup right now here in Australia, and usually I can hear the children playing while they wait to be collected. Not today. Silent as a grave.
I hear them before school, too, loud and boisterous as kids are, I hear their parents shouting at them that they love them, that they hope they have a good day, in voices that sound as broadly Australian as my own, and I hear the Arabic and Bahasa and other medley of tongues as well, and I can't imagine they're saying much different. Eat your lunch, listen to your teacher. Be good. I'll see you soon. I love you.
Can you imagine that? Can you imagine that kind of simple, common love being so terrifying that the only thing you can do is murder them? That you'd find them in their most peaceful place, those mothers and fathers and children, someone's sons and daughters and most beloved child, and shoot them for the sin of not being white enough, not being hateful and bitter and closed off? Shot at prayer. I can only take some sort of comfort in that they died in the ear of God, and if I believed in any sort of Allfather that he couldn't do anything but hear.
I can imagine heartbreak, but not heartbreak strong enough for Christchurch right now. I want to go and just do something, anything, to show those kids and their families that they're welcome here, they're just as much a part of this place as anyone else. I don't know how to do that without making this about me, my own sorrow and horror, so I'm just staying here, feeling useless and dirty by association.
posted by Jilder at 10:23 PM on March 14, 2019 [183 favorites]
Thanks, great_radio.
posted by Bella Donna at 10:26 PM on March 14, 2019
posted by Bella Donna at 10:26 PM on March 14, 2019
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posted by Mister Bijou at 10:26 PM on March 14, 2019
posted by Mister Bijou at 10:26 PM on March 14, 2019
I want to go and just do something, anything, to show those kids and their families that they're welcome here, they're just as much a part of this place as anyone else. I don't know how to do that without making this about me, my own sorrow and horror, so I'm just staying here, feeling useless and dirty by association.
Yeah, I don't know what to do with this feeling.
posted by hippybear at 10:28 PM on March 14, 2019 [5 favorites]
Yeah, I don't know what to do with this feeling.
posted by hippybear at 10:28 PM on March 14, 2019 [5 favorites]
I would recommend Radio New Zealand (http:// radionz.co.nz ) as a reliable and up to date source.
I've accounted for all my CHCH people. Lockdown just lifted after four hours or so. Apart from the obvious impact on our Muslim community and the country as a whole, this is retraumatising Christchurch, where so many have terrible memories from the earthquakes.
Questions are already being asked about how our intelligence services are (not) using their wide powers. The people who brought Molyneux and Southern here also need to account for themselves. I am so, so sad and angry about this awful terrorist act.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 10:29 PM on March 14, 2019 [19 favorites]
I've accounted for all my CHCH people. Lockdown just lifted after four hours or so. Apart from the obvious impact on our Muslim community and the country as a whole, this is retraumatising Christchurch, where so many have terrible memories from the earthquakes.
Questions are already being asked about how our intelligence services are (not) using their wide powers. The people who brought Molyneux and Southern here also need to account for themselves. I am so, so sad and angry about this awful terrorist act.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 10:29 PM on March 14, 2019 [19 favorites]
Bangladeshi cricket team narrowly escaped.
Today the Malaysian government is charging the organisers of the local Women's March for sedition for "organising an LGBTQ gathering", after over a year of systemic and increasing anti-LGBTQ rhetoric. Malaysian conservatives are already accusing LGBTQ Malaysians of "causing bad weather". I am absolutely certain some cretin is going to accuse them of causing this massacre as God's punishment or something, this is how low their minds would go.
Rumours that the shooter is Australian.. because this country needs more fucking encouragement to be racist.
I just had to pull out from a friend's play reading this weekend (which may be cancelled anyway) because the plotline, which is meant to be an all-trans satire involving "gender terrorists", is in really poor taste now.
I know this has not much to do with me asides from shared demographics but URGH
posted by divabat at 10:30 PM on March 14, 2019 [24 favorites]
Today the Malaysian government is charging the organisers of the local Women's March for sedition for "organising an LGBTQ gathering", after over a year of systemic and increasing anti-LGBTQ rhetoric. Malaysian conservatives are already accusing LGBTQ Malaysians of "causing bad weather". I am absolutely certain some cretin is going to accuse them of causing this massacre as God's punishment or something, this is how low their minds would go.
Rumours that the shooter is Australian.. because this country needs more fucking encouragement to be racist.
I just had to pull out from a friend's play reading this weekend (which may be cancelled anyway) because the plotline, which is meant to be an all-trans satire involving "gender terrorists", is in really poor taste now.
I know this has not much to do with me asides from shared demographics but URGH
posted by divabat at 10:30 PM on March 14, 2019 [24 favorites]
If you're feeling useless and want to help - check in on your Muslim friends and see if they need help with anything, even if it's mundane
posted by divabat at 10:31 PM on March 14, 2019 [10 favorites]
posted by divabat at 10:31 PM on March 14, 2019 [10 favorites]
Several Australian tv outlets have broadcast the streamed video. In the bin with all of them.
posted by the duck by the oboe at 10:32 PM on March 14, 2019 [43 favorites]
posted by the duck by the oboe at 10:32 PM on March 14, 2019 [43 favorites]
.
posted by Grandysaur at 10:35 PM on March 14, 2019
posted by Grandysaur at 10:35 PM on March 14, 2019
Bill Shorten, leader of the Labor Party in Australia, in response to reports that at least one of the attackers was Australian and video of the attacks was streamed live:
"The people who have committed this atrocity have wanted the attention. We should never normalise this. Do not share the footage. Do not watch the footage. This is not part of our daily lives. It should never be accepted as part of our daily lives."posted by theory at 10:36 PM on March 14, 2019 [57 favorites]
Christchurch is the one town outside North America I've spent significant time in. Beautiful place, and the earthquake broke my heart. Now this. Vibes are all I can send, but they're being sent.
posted by traveler_ at 10:38 PM on March 14, 2019 [3 favorites]
posted by traveler_ at 10:38 PM on March 14, 2019 [3 favorites]
divabat, current reports say the main shooter came from Australia but is originally from Christchurch. And then there are the other three in custody. I'm afraid we have to own this.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 10:38 PM on March 14, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 10:38 PM on March 14, 2019 [2 favorites]
There is never anything to be learned from the "manifestos" of these assholes. There is nothing to be gained except normalization (as mentioned above) by watching whatever the live stream was. The only thing we can learn is who is cheering this on and drum them out of our body politic if they are civil servants, stop buying their products if they are businesses, and stop watching or reading their media if they are organizations, reporters or pundits.
I guess I don't know anything at all about New Zealand's gun laws. I had it in my mind that they were somewhat sane, but perhaps not.
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posted by maxwelton at 10:43 PM on March 14, 2019 [12 favorites]
I guess I don't know anything at all about New Zealand's gun laws. I had it in my mind that they were somewhat sane, but perhaps not.
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posted by maxwelton at 10:43 PM on March 14, 2019 [12 favorites]
@bradesposito - The manifesto is designed to be reported on. It is bait. It is full of the ironic shitposting that litters the internet, & it hits all the beats the media will look for and thrive on reporting. This is a troll in its ugliest most horrific form. There is no reason to "explain" it.
@BostonJoan The manifesto is bait. It is loaded with keywords that lead down far-right rabbit holes. Do not repost.
Quarantine is our best defense against spreading their message.
Most of the NZ shooter’s social media is new. It’s an attempt to get journalists to see a unified narrative.
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:51 PM on March 14, 2019 [69 favorites]
@BostonJoan The manifesto is bait. It is loaded with keywords that lead down far-right rabbit holes. Do not repost.
Quarantine is our best defense against spreading their message.
Most of the NZ shooter’s social media is new. It’s an attempt to get journalists to see a unified narrative.
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:51 PM on March 14, 2019 [69 favorites]
Decided to close twitter and not watch the news from Wellington. Simultaneously rage inducing and depressing.
Solidarity & condolences to NZ's Muslim & minority communities.
I'm hoping the racists & their enablers get identified, rounded up, put on trial and jailed for a very very long time; while not being given an opportunity or platform to spout their bile.
Hoping the gun-laws get tightened further - they're already pretty tight, but I suspect you could get your hands on a firearm pretty easily by skirting the law.
posted by phigmov at 10:53 PM on March 14, 2019 [2 favorites]
Solidarity & condolences to NZ's Muslim & minority communities.
I'm hoping the racists & their enablers get identified, rounded up, put on trial and jailed for a very very long time; while not being given an opportunity or platform to spout their bile.
Hoping the gun-laws get tightened further - they're already pretty tight, but I suspect you could get your hands on a firearm pretty easily by skirting the law.
posted by phigmov at 10:53 PM on March 14, 2019 [2 favorites]
Honestly, you can do basically anything by skirting the law. The law only reins in law-abiding people. Shooting up mosques is not the action of a group of law-abiding people. How they got their guns is immaterial, honestly.
posted by hippybear at 10:55 PM on March 14, 2019 [8 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 10:55 PM on March 14, 2019 [8 favorites]
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posted by ChuraChura at 10:57 PM on March 14, 2019
posted by ChuraChura at 10:57 PM on March 14, 2019
I guess I don't know anything at all about New Zealand's gun laws.
I understand that NZ's gun laws are less restrictive than Australia's but still onerous compared to the US. IIRC there's about one firearm for every four NZ citizens and about half as many per capita in Australia. But not all firearms were created equal, of course. I'm sure NZers will be asking a lot of questions about how these ones were acquired and whether and how they were modified.
posted by Joe in Australia at 10:57 PM on March 14, 2019 [1 favorite]
I understand that NZ's gun laws are less restrictive than Australia's but still onerous compared to the US. IIRC there's about one firearm for every four NZ citizens and about half as many per capita in Australia. But not all firearms were created equal, of course. I'm sure NZers will be asking a lot of questions about how these ones were acquired and whether and how they were modified.
posted by Joe in Australia at 10:57 PM on March 14, 2019 [1 favorite]
Once again, too many .'s where there should be none.
(Australian, & possibly overseas readers: I don't know about the link in the post, but be aware that at least some of the News Ltd sites have the arsehole's video auto-playing on page load.)
posted by Pinback at 10:59 PM on March 14, 2019 [4 favorites]
(Australian, & possibly overseas readers: I don't know about the link in the post, but be aware that at least some of the News Ltd sites have the arsehole's video auto-playing on page load.)
posted by Pinback at 10:59 PM on March 14, 2019 [4 favorites]
Yeah people in my twitter in the US have been saying they've had the video autoplaying in their feeds and are begging others not to retweet.
posted by hippybear at 11:01 PM on March 14, 2019 [3 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 11:01 PM on March 14, 2019 [3 favorites]
Inna lillahi wa inna ilayhi raji'oon. (May Allah give them an easy and pleasant journey and shower blessings on them.)
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 11:01 PM on March 14, 2019 [77 favorites]
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 11:01 PM on March 14, 2019 [77 favorites]
From the Guardian Live Blog
Today’s shooting will put renewed scrutiny on New Zealand’s gun laws – particularly restrictions on military-style rifles and high-capacity ammunition magazines, which are frequently used in mass shooting attacks.posted by michswiss at 11:01 PM on March 14, 2019 [10 favorites]
Civilians in New Zealand own an estimated 1.2 million firearms, according to the 2017 Small Arms Survey. That puts New Zealand’s per capita rate of gun ownership higher than Australia’s, but still far below the United States, where there is more than one gun per person in civilian ownership.
Over the past year, New Zealand has seen renewed debate over what police have called loopholes in the way military-style semi-automatic rifles are defined by law. Possession of these “MSSA” rifles is supposed to be subject to a higher level of scrutiny from the police, and there are only about 15,000 registered military-style rifles in civilian hands, as of last year.
But because of the way “military-style” rifles are defined by law, guns with slightly different features but virtually the same function can fall outside of the stricter regulations. Both police and firearms enthusiasts noted that a rifle could be transformed into a “MSSA” simply by adding a larger-capacity ammunition magazine.
A briefing document sent to New Zealand police minister complained that gaps in the law had already been exploited in violent incidents, and noted that “Purchase of high-capacity magazines is unregulated and does not require a firearms license,” news website Stuff.co.nz reported.
In 1997, an overview of New Zealand gun laws commissioned by police officials recommended that MSSA rifles be banned and subject to a mandatory buyback.
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posted by colin.jaquiery at 11:02 PM on March 14, 2019
posted by colin.jaquiery at 11:02 PM on March 14, 2019
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posted by harriet vane at 11:02 PM on March 14, 2019
posted by harriet vane at 11:02 PM on March 14, 2019
I thought NZ gun laws are pretty strict, but to be honest I don't know what they are like in other countries. My mother (in NZ) used to own a gun, and when she got her licence the process included an interview at her house by the police, including an inspection of her gun safe, and a mental health assessment.
I just saw this news as I came out of a meeting with a Muslim PhD student where we were discussing her project for using technology to promote cross-cultural understanding in the context of Islamic pilgrimages.
Fortunately the first thing I saw wasn't the news sites but rather that I had a flood of emails in my inbox saying my family members were okay. The emails didn't give context, so I assumed it was another earthquake. In some ways, this is worse.
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posted by lollusc at 11:23 PM on March 14, 2019 [15 favorites]
I just saw this news as I came out of a meeting with a Muslim PhD student where we were discussing her project for using technology to promote cross-cultural understanding in the context of Islamic pilgrimages.
Fortunately the first thing I saw wasn't the news sites but rather that I had a flood of emails in my inbox saying my family members were okay. The emails didn't give context, so I assumed it was another earthquake. In some ways, this is worse.
.
posted by lollusc at 11:23 PM on March 14, 2019 [15 favorites]
My partner works here in Dunedin to help settle Syrian and Palestinian refugees, these families have become part of our family ... Learning that these terrorists originally planned to attack our local Dunedin mosque is just horrible, these are people who have escaped terror already, what has happened is numbing.
40 people have been killed, we've never had something this big happen here.
A terrorist attack on any one of us is a terrorist attack on us all.
posted by mbo at 11:30 PM on March 14, 2019 [41 favorites]
40 people have been killed, we've never had something this big happen here.
A terrorist attack on any one of us is a terrorist attack on us all.
posted by mbo at 11:30 PM on March 14, 2019 [41 favorites]
imo we'll discover eventually that the choice of new zealand for the perpetuation of this horror right now was extremely strategic
posted by infini at 11:31 PM on March 14, 2019 [14 favorites]
posted by infini at 11:31 PM on March 14, 2019 [14 favorites]
40 dead. No words.
posted by the duck by the oboe at 11:32 PM on March 14, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by the duck by the oboe at 11:32 PM on March 14, 2019 [2 favorites]
Feeling horrified really, can't add anything, I know Christchurch well and these places will never feel quite the same. I don't understand racism, never have - why?
infini sadly I agree
Totally agree hippybear re criminals and firearms. It's never been difficult to find illegal weapons in NZ (or any other country I've seen). Unfortunately it's never been difficult to find racists here either.
NZ firearms laws are quite rational; there is a lot of hunting here as we have so many vertebrate pests, and getting a licence is not a foregone conclusion. Criminals don't need licences.
posted by unearthed at 11:39 PM on March 14, 2019 [2 favorites]
infini sadly I agree
Totally agree hippybear re criminals and firearms. It's never been difficult to find illegal weapons in NZ (or any other country I've seen). Unfortunately it's never been difficult to find racists here either.
NZ firearms laws are quite rational; there is a lot of hunting here as we have so many vertebrate pests, and getting a licence is not a foregone conclusion. Criminals don't need licences.
posted by unearthed at 11:39 PM on March 14, 2019 [2 favorites]
We license people, not individual weapons, hand guns are generally not available, hunting weapons are quite common. But I see no reason why anyone in NZ needs an AR15.
In order to get a firearms licence one needs to persuade the police, who are not normally armed, that you are a safe person to own a weapon ... They try and find out if everyone in your household is mentally stable, whether there's any domestic violence etc etc
This guy is an Aussie who hasn't been here that long, it's unlikely he has a licence, he must have obtained his armoury from someone who is local
posted by mbo at 11:49 PM on March 14, 2019 [3 favorites]
In order to get a firearms licence one needs to persuade the police, who are not normally armed, that you are a safe person to own a weapon ... They try and find out if everyone in your household is mentally stable, whether there's any domestic violence etc etc
This guy is an Aussie who hasn't been here that long, it's unlikely he has a licence, he must have obtained his armoury from someone who is local
posted by mbo at 11:49 PM on March 14, 2019 [3 favorites]
This came in during the climate strike and straight away some people started leaving because it felt so close to home. Such a goddamn transition from the elated high of a protest to this feeling of utter powerlessness. Of course one was Australian.
Our media, our politicians, they have blood on their hands. It is their demonization of immigrants and constant promotion of Islamophobia, normalisation of Nazis as guests on shows and in government, it is all of that which leads directly to this.
I've finally calmed down a little bit, but this is going to take some time to deal with. Frankly, I'm a bit of a wreck right now and just want to go to sleep.
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posted by AnhydrousLove at 11:52 PM on March 14, 2019 [32 favorites]
Our media, our politicians, they have blood on their hands. It is their demonization of immigrants and constant promotion of Islamophobia, normalisation of Nazis as guests on shows and in government, it is all of that which leads directly to this.
I've finally calmed down a little bit, but this is going to take some time to deal with. Frankly, I'm a bit of a wreck right now and just want to go to sleep.
.
posted by AnhydrousLove at 11:52 PM on March 14, 2019 [32 favorites]
40 people. I'm 49 and this is the worst violent event in my lifetime in this country. I cannot express how sick at heart I am.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 11:53 PM on March 14, 2019 [21 favorites]
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 11:53 PM on March 14, 2019 [21 favorites]
I'm so sorry, NZ, and I feel worse since this stain on humanity has reportedly been inspired by our own local homegrown terrorist asshole (I'm Norwegian).
posted by Harald74 at 11:56 PM on March 14, 2019 [7 favorites]
posted by Harald74 at 11:56 PM on March 14, 2019 [7 favorites]
so much anger - so much hatred
posted by growabrain at 12:06 AM on March 15, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by growabrain at 12:06 AM on March 15, 2019 [1 favorite]
This was in the mega thread. Don't forget that while this atrocity was happening, 45 posted a tweet with just a single link to breitbart who's readers were heartily celebrating the attack. Blood is on his hands too.
posted by michswiss at 12:06 AM on March 15, 2019 [50 favorites]
posted by michswiss at 12:06 AM on March 15, 2019 [50 favorites]
Give nothing to racism just Give nothing (auto video) - NZ Commission for Human Rights. In essence racism thrives when we just play along, and then it grows
posted by unearthed at 12:19 AM on March 15, 2019 [7 favorites]
posted by unearthed at 12:19 AM on March 15, 2019 [7 favorites]
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posted by eirias at 12:35 AM on March 15, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by eirias at 12:35 AM on March 15, 2019 [1 favorite]
Does reporting racist pages to Facebook even work now? I found one that relates to the asshole's rantings but since I don't Facebook I'm not sure how to tell someone or ask someone else to report it.
posted by Rufous-headed Towhee heehee at 12:40 AM on March 15, 2019
posted by Rufous-headed Towhee heehee at 12:40 AM on March 15, 2019
I am fucking outraged. This bastard gang of mongrel fuckers took people who had gathered in peace and worship, who had nothing in their hearts except love for each other and their god, and destroyed them in hatred and blood. My country harboured one of these creatures, and my country gave him the ideological tools to commit this act. Giving airtime to the likes of Milo Yiannopoulos and Stephen Yaxley-Lennon, the feral potato Peter Dutton and gurning idiot ScoMo encouraged the far right in Australia, and this is the result of their bastardry.
No. Fucking. More.
posted by prismatic7 at 12:46 AM on March 15, 2019 [22 favorites]
No. Fucking. More.
posted by prismatic7 at 12:46 AM on March 15, 2019 [22 favorites]
The terrorist name checked Trump as one of his inspirations.
Body count now 49, sob!
Apparently (Aussie) Sky News is currently playing the terrorist's helmet cam video, in NZ SkyTV has replaced Sky News with tennis - cowards!
posted by mbo at 1:08 AM on March 15, 2019 [5 favorites]
Body count now 49, sob!
Apparently (Aussie) Sky News is currently playing the terrorist's helmet cam video, in NZ SkyTV has replaced Sky News with tennis - cowards!
posted by mbo at 1:08 AM on March 15, 2019 [5 favorites]
Now 49 gone.
I kept thinking as the reports came in that the numbers would go down.
They were saying 13 or so and I hoped maybe it could go down to 2 or 3 or even none. Confused reports and so.
I was wrong.
posted by Richard Upton Pickman at 1:09 AM on March 15, 2019 [5 favorites]
I kept thinking as the reports came in that the numbers would go down.
They were saying 13 or so and I hoped maybe it could go down to 2 or 3 or even none. Confused reports and so.
I was wrong.
posted by Richard Upton Pickman at 1:09 AM on March 15, 2019 [5 favorites]
If you read the comments section of right-wing blogs, such as Kiwiblog, you will find broadly similar sentiments of white supremacist thinking that the terrorist espoused. And it is tolerated and rarely if ever called out for what it is. Even reading the comments now is sickening.
It is also no surprise to me that this has happened in Christchurch which as a reputation for being the home of white supremacist groups.
Of even greater concern is that this terrorist was not on any watch-list. There is a concern that the security services were focussing on the supposed threat of Islamist violence, rather than on home-grown, right-wing, white supremacists. I know, know, you are all shocked to learn that.
Many things need to change in New Zealand as a result of this terrorist attack, not least is a vastly increased awareness and targeting of white supremacist-enabling social media.
posted by vac2003 at 1:16 AM on March 15, 2019 [27 favorites]
It is also no surprise to me that this has happened in Christchurch which as a reputation for being the home of white supremacist groups.
Of even greater concern is that this terrorist was not on any watch-list. There is a concern that the security services were focussing on the supposed threat of Islamist violence, rather than on home-grown, right-wing, white supremacists. I know, know, you are all shocked to learn that.
Many things need to change in New Zealand as a result of this terrorist attack, not least is a vastly increased awareness and targeting of white supremacist-enabling social media.
posted by vac2003 at 1:16 AM on March 15, 2019 [27 favorites]
.................................................
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 1:32 AM on March 15, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by Two unicycles and some duct tape at 1:32 AM on March 15, 2019 [2 favorites]
My heart breaks for Christchurch. You never really get over this pain. I hope there is justice and ample emotional and psychological resources to help this community through this terrible time. I also hope that there is minimal media presence for the sake of everyone whose directly devastated by this racist terrorist attack.
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:39 AM on March 15, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by Joey Michaels at 1:39 AM on March 15, 2019 [1 favorite]
Awful and tragic. I'm so sorry for these families and the people who are part of these communities.
I'm very disappointed in ABC News, the 24 hour Australian tv news station.
They're repeatedly showing many images from the shooter's video in the background. They've repeatedly mentioned his name and aspects of his manifesto and social media presence.
They're doing this in between video of Ardern, Shorten and others pleading with people not to watch the videos, not to read the manifesto, not to say his name.
Here's the form to lodge a complaint with the ABC, if anyone else is watching and frustrated
posted by mosessis at 1:47 AM on March 15, 2019 [31 favorites]
I'm very disappointed in ABC News, the 24 hour Australian tv news station.
They're repeatedly showing many images from the shooter's video in the background. They've repeatedly mentioned his name and aspects of his manifesto and social media presence.
They're doing this in between video of Ardern, Shorten and others pleading with people not to watch the videos, not to read the manifesto, not to say his name.
Here's the form to lodge a complaint with the ABC, if anyone else is watching and frustrated
posted by mosessis at 1:47 AM on March 15, 2019 [31 favorites]
49.
posted by GenjiandProust at 1:59 AM on March 15, 2019
posted by GenjiandProust at 1:59 AM on March 15, 2019
NZ holds a special place in my heart. We visited years ago and rattled around cheaply in the off season. I dreamer about moving there and vanishing into the landscape of mountains and oceans and tree ferns. It was amazingly gorgeous and it felt sleepy and friendly and yeah, sometimes racist and xenophobic. But I still felt like most people I met were open to the world. To learning about new people. To welcoming visitors and immigrants different from themselves.
I don't know what steps the people and government will take. But I want to believe they'll step up and assert that the attitudes which led to this horror are not tolerated. And that measures will be put in place to prevent it from reoccurring.
And for those who died, and for their families and friends, and for the hopes of those who chose NZ as the place to follow dreams they're having trouble believing in now,
.................................................
And a cloud, in hopes of change.
...oooOOooOOoooOOOoo...
posted by allium cepa at 2:02 AM on March 15, 2019 [4 favorites]
I don't know what steps the people and government will take. But I want to believe they'll step up and assert that the attitudes which led to this horror are not tolerated. And that measures will be put in place to prevent it from reoccurring.
And for those who died, and for their families and friends, and for the hopes of those who chose NZ as the place to follow dreams they're having trouble believing in now,
.................................................
And a cloud, in hopes of change.
...oooOOooOOoooOOOoo...
posted by allium cepa at 2:02 AM on March 15, 2019 [4 favorites]
The population of New Zealand is so small! This would be brutal to deal with anywhere but it must be triply so in NZ. I hope you all are ok.
posted by Justinian at 2:05 AM on March 15, 2019 [6 favorites]
posted by Justinian at 2:05 AM on March 15, 2019 [6 favorites]
This our PM doing her thing calling it terrorism as it is
posted by mbo at 2:14 AM on March 15, 2019 [35 favorites]
posted by mbo at 2:14 AM on March 15, 2019 [35 favorites]
This is heartbreaking. I have no other words.
.................................................
posted by Too-Ticky at 2:17 AM on March 15, 2019 [2 favorites]
.................................................
posted by Too-Ticky at 2:17 AM on March 15, 2019 [2 favorites]
Australia's most prominent Muslim TV host, Waleed Aly, had a piece to camera talking about his fear and disgust that's powerful stuff.
Australia deserves part of the blame for this, in how readily we've normalised violent and extreme racism.
posted by Merus at 2:26 AM on March 15, 2019 [43 favorites]
Australia deserves part of the blame for this, in how readily we've normalised violent and extreme racism.
posted by Merus at 2:26 AM on March 15, 2019 [43 favorites]
Christchurch is one of my favourite places and this news is unbearable. I'm so sorry, New Zealand.
posted by rory at 2:39 AM on March 15, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by rory at 2:39 AM on March 15, 2019 [1 favorite]
It's way too early to say if the authorities could have prevented this incident. Just a couple of weeks ago, Police were patrolling the Christchurch streets armed with guns. This is very unusual for NZ, and there were a lot of worried questions and plenty of Police assurances that it was just a temporary measure.
And last time NZ tried to deal with terrorists was in 2007, with the Urewera Raids. That was a complete mess, with the Police going in like jack-booted thugs from a movie, and the targets only getting a couple of years prison for firearms charges.
posted by WhackyparseThis at 2:42 AM on March 15, 2019 [1 favorite]
And last time NZ tried to deal with terrorists was in 2007, with the Urewera Raids. That was a complete mess, with the Police going in like jack-booted thugs from a movie, and the targets only getting a couple of years prison for firearms charges.
posted by WhackyparseThis at 2:42 AM on March 15, 2019 [1 favorite]
The main perpetrator's online rants and manifesto seem to be a mash-up of trolling and misdirection, likely gamed in order to milk the maximum amount of media speculation. The racism is consistent, but expect the right-wing to have plenty of ammo for misdirection and blame-shifting.
He literally posted on 8chan that he wanted to take shitposting to the real world. I wouldn't take any search for motives in the murderers' own words at face-value. It may be time that we stop looking at mass murderers' own words in our search for understanding and closure and instead try to find answers in the broad brush of general research.
This violence is epidemiological and utterly, utterly senseless.
posted by Skwirl at 2:43 AM on March 15, 2019 [30 favorites]
He literally posted on 8chan that he wanted to take shitposting to the real world. I wouldn't take any search for motives in the murderers' own words at face-value. It may be time that we stop looking at mass murderers' own words in our search for understanding and closure and instead try to find answers in the broad brush of general research.
This violence is epidemiological and utterly, utterly senseless.
posted by Skwirl at 2:43 AM on March 15, 2019 [30 favorites]
"@bradesposito: Most of the NZ shooter’s social media is new. It’s an attempt to get journalists to see a unified narrative."
It's not a unified narrative? Why rush to deny that it's what it appears to be? Are Islamophobic, white-supremacist, alt-right men that uncommon?
We should avoid spreading hate propoganda, but we should also see this for what it is and have a long think about what it represents and what we're going to do about it.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 2:43 AM on March 15, 2019 [12 favorites]
It's not a unified narrative? Why rush to deny that it's what it appears to be? Are Islamophobic, white-supremacist, alt-right men that uncommon?
We should avoid spreading hate propoganda, but we should also see this for what it is and have a long think about what it represents and what we're going to do about it.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 2:43 AM on March 15, 2019 [12 favorites]
I'm a little annoyed that the media is making such a big deal out of the fact that the one identified shooter is Australian-born. Just feels like an attempt to pretend it isn't our problem.
posted by L.P. Hatecraft at 2:48 AM on March 15, 2019 [9 favorites]
posted by L.P. Hatecraft at 2:48 AM on March 15, 2019 [9 favorites]
I'm 49 and this is the worst violent event in my lifetime in this country. I cannot express how sick at heart I am.
Worst since the Featherston POW camp escape in 1943. Worse than many of the battles of the New Zealand Wars.
Just yesterday the Green MP James Shaw was assaulted on his way to work, with his assailant apparently yelling about the UN Migration compact. There's a real nasty undercurrent here, and it's being enabled by some of the mainstream centre-right who have also been against the UN compact, and who really need to shut up or start distancing themselves from it.
posted by Pink Frost at 2:53 AM on March 15, 2019 [14 favorites]
Worst since the Featherston POW camp escape in 1943. Worse than many of the battles of the New Zealand Wars.
Just yesterday the Green MP James Shaw was assaulted on his way to work, with his assailant apparently yelling about the UN Migration compact. There's a real nasty undercurrent here, and it's being enabled by some of the mainstream centre-right who have also been against the UN compact, and who really need to shut up or start distancing themselves from it.
posted by Pink Frost at 2:53 AM on March 15, 2019 [14 favorites]
Australia's most prominent Muslim TV host, Waleed Aly, had a piece to camera talking about his fear and disgust that's powerful stuff.
Australia deserves part of the blame for this, in how readily we've normalised violent and extreme racism.
That segment is some amazing truth to power.
posted by jaduncan at 2:53 AM on March 15, 2019 [7 favorites]
Australia deserves part of the blame for this, in how readily we've normalised violent and extreme racism.
That segment is some amazing truth to power.
posted by jaduncan at 2:53 AM on March 15, 2019 [7 favorites]
Waleed Aly is a good egg.
posted by nnethercote at 2:59 AM on March 15, 2019 [5 favorites]
posted by nnethercote at 2:59 AM on March 15, 2019 [5 favorites]
As an Aussie I have had a few Kiwi friends over the years, and like many Aussies I have close family connections to Kiwiland.
We are as closely bonded as any two nations on this earth.
This is just awful beyond words. :(
posted by Pouteria at 3:04 AM on March 15, 2019 [5 favorites]
We are as closely bonded as any two nations on this earth.
This is just awful beyond words. :(
posted by Pouteria at 3:04 AM on March 15, 2019 [5 favorites]
There is some value in looking at the manifesto. Because it reveals where the hate comes from, it's unmistakable.
There's some trolling but even the flavor of troll is the precise idiom of the alt right. It's full of references to the US second amendment and US racial politics. These people were radicalized by the right wing online death machine. We must politicize this because these are political acts being driven by a political agenda.
posted by idiopath at 3:06 AM on March 15, 2019 [51 favorites]
There's some trolling but even the flavor of troll is the precise idiom of the alt right. It's full of references to the US second amendment and US racial politics. These people were radicalized by the right wing online death machine. We must politicize this because these are political acts being driven by a political agenda.
posted by idiopath at 3:06 AM on March 15, 2019 [51 favorites]
>There's some trolling but even the flavor of troll is the precise idiom of the alt right.
Absolutely. The 2015 Charleston church attack, the 2018 Toronto attack, the 2011 Norway attacks, etc, all of these guys fell down related right-wing rabbit holes. This particular attacker is going to be hard to explain politically because the right will be able to do the thing that they always do, which is to cherry-pick from the attackers' writings to push their own narrative and, if that fails, they can accuse others of cherry-picking because the whole thing is just a shitshow.
posted by Skwirl at 3:19 AM on March 15, 2019 [11 favorites]
Absolutely. The 2015 Charleston church attack, the 2018 Toronto attack, the 2011 Norway attacks, etc, all of these guys fell down related right-wing rabbit holes. This particular attacker is going to be hard to explain politically because the right will be able to do the thing that they always do, which is to cherry-pick from the attackers' writings to push their own narrative and, if that fails, they can accuse others of cherry-picking because the whole thing is just a shitshow.
posted by Skwirl at 3:19 AM on March 15, 2019 [11 favorites]
This is too close to me. I’m in the US. There should be no place on Planet Earth for this kind of thing.
I’m so sorry, NZ.
posted by Anne Neville at 3:20 AM on March 15, 2019 [7 favorites]
I’m so sorry, NZ.
posted by Anne Neville at 3:20 AM on March 15, 2019 [7 favorites]
Yeah, I kept reading on twitter how the manifesto was so full of sarcasm, irony, and trolling that it would be incomprehensible to the media or average person. I just read most of it and it seems garden variety alt-right to me. What's supposed to be so hard for people to follow? That he included the Navy Seal copypasta in it? Maybe I spend too much time online but nothing in this thing seems particularly confusing. And certainly none of it is particularly noteworthy. A first rate mind he is not.
It's "white people need to have more babies and kick out the non-white people". That's it, that's the manifesto.
posted by Justinian at 3:22 AM on March 15, 2019 [29 favorites]
It's "white people need to have more babies and kick out the non-white people". That's it, that's the manifesto.
posted by Justinian at 3:22 AM on March 15, 2019 [29 favorites]
I'm shaking with anger and fear and frustration. I really hate this timeline. Fuck.
.
posted by Fizz at 3:25 AM on March 15, 2019 [4 favorites]
.
posted by Fizz at 3:25 AM on March 15, 2019 [4 favorites]
I'm a little annoyed that the media is making such a big deal out of the fact that the one identified shooter is Australian-born. Just feels like an attempt to pretend it isn't our problem.
This isn't to say there aren't problems in NZ.
But it will be interesting to observe the short to mid-term hypocritical response from the SloMo government. We are currently denying Australian citizens from returning to AU because of affiliation with, or marriage to ISIS combatants, including denial of return of their babies resulting in the death of at least one infant that we know of.
If the current government sticks to the same policy (hah!), they would do their damnedest to remove the white male terrorist's citizenship for some obscure reason, refuse him reentry and stick the problem on someone else.
And if NZ took the same approach as the current shitstain of the LNP, they would just ship him back to us and say it's your problem.
posted by michswiss at 3:28 AM on March 15, 2019 [10 favorites]
This isn't to say there aren't problems in NZ.
But it will be interesting to observe the short to mid-term hypocritical response from the SloMo government. We are currently denying Australian citizens from returning to AU because of affiliation with, or marriage to ISIS combatants, including denial of return of their babies resulting in the death of at least one infant that we know of.
If the current government sticks to the same policy (hah!), they would do their damnedest to remove the white male terrorist's citizenship for some obscure reason, refuse him reentry and stick the problem on someone else.
And if NZ took the same approach as the current shitstain of the LNP, they would just ship him back to us and say it's your problem.
posted by michswiss at 3:28 AM on March 15, 2019 [10 favorites]
Murdoch has a lot to answer for.
posted by Homemade Interossiter at 3:28 AM on March 15, 2019 [46 favorites]
posted by Homemade Interossiter at 3:28 AM on March 15, 2019 [46 favorites]
I am so sorry.
posted by dinty_moore at 3:49 AM on March 15, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by dinty_moore at 3:49 AM on March 15, 2019 [1 favorite]
Murdoch has a lot to answer for. Google has a lot to answer for. Youtube. Facebook. Twitter. Many players in our media ecosystem are pretending that they have no responsibility, even as they profit. They have proven themselves unfit to wield power and it needs to be taken away from them.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 3:58 AM on March 15, 2019 [74 favorites]
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 3:58 AM on March 15, 2019 [74 favorites]
Shitposting, Inspirational Terrorism, and the Christchurch Mosque Massacre.
Bellingcat.
posted by adamvasco at 4:16 AM on March 15, 2019 [9 favorites]
Bellingcat.
posted by adamvasco at 4:16 AM on March 15, 2019 [9 favorites]
Maybe I spend too much time online but nothing in this thing seems particularly confusing.
If you can type "the navy seal copypasta" and know what you're talking about then yes, you are probably more online than the average bear. While I think it's probably not great to treat extremely online things as a freakish secret code, that doesn't mean it has complicated references.
What does kind of frustrate me about this is something like
@BostonJoan The manifesto is bait. It is loaded with keywords that lead down far-right rabbit holes. Do not repost.
I get the impulse for this entirely and largely agree with it, but to read the intent stated so brazenly comes across as rather paternalistic and patronizing. Of course the manifesto by a killer pushes an arguement - that's the point of a manifesto! It's not some sort of secret, darn it. Yes, don't reprint it if you don't want to give oxygen to those ideas. But it isn't a secret code. It's like treating "red pilling" as a magic process and not an awful miseducation.
posted by Going To Maine at 4:19 AM on March 15, 2019 [20 favorites]
If you can type "the navy seal copypasta" and know what you're talking about then yes, you are probably more online than the average bear. While I think it's probably not great to treat extremely online things as a freakish secret code, that doesn't mean it has complicated references.
What does kind of frustrate me about this is something like
@BostonJoan The manifesto is bait. It is loaded with keywords that lead down far-right rabbit holes. Do not repost.
I get the impulse for this entirely and largely agree with it, but to read the intent stated so brazenly comes across as rather paternalistic and patronizing. Of course the manifesto by a killer pushes an arguement - that's the point of a manifesto! It's not some sort of secret, darn it. Yes, don't reprint it if you don't want to give oxygen to those ideas. But it isn't a secret code. It's like treating "red pilling" as a magic process and not an awful miseducation.
posted by Going To Maine at 4:19 AM on March 15, 2019 [20 favorites]
I'm hesitant to mention this, because it is just so disgusting, but Senator Fraser ("Final Solution") Anning, pretty much an outright fascist and rabid Islamophobe, tweeted the following soon after the attack.
Does anyone still dispute the link between Muslim immigration and violence?
There's another 4 tweets after that which apparently were too much even for Twitter, and have now been deleted, but I am given to understand were in a very similar vein. There has also been a formal statement which makes clear that Anning is blaming Muslims for what has occured.
Anning is blatantly supporting the terrorists in this. I think most locals commenting here are fully aware of this but I wanted to make it absolutely clear to others what kind of political response we're talking about when we say blood on their hands.
Not that Labor, the Liberals and others are not also complicit, but with people like Anning around, almost anyone can look good in comparison. Very fine people on both sides would be an improvement, unfortunately, for Anning.
posted by AnhydrousLove at 4:22 AM on March 15, 2019 [36 favorites]
Does anyone still dispute the link between Muslim immigration and violence?
There's another 4 tweets after that which apparently were too much even for Twitter, and have now been deleted, but I am given to understand were in a very similar vein. There has also been a formal statement which makes clear that Anning is blaming Muslims for what has occured.
Anning is blatantly supporting the terrorists in this. I think most locals commenting here are fully aware of this but I wanted to make it absolutely clear to others what kind of political response we're talking about when we say blood on their hands.
Not that Labor, the Liberals and others are not also complicit, but with people like Anning around, almost anyone can look good in comparison. Very fine people on both sides would be an improvement, unfortunately, for Anning.
posted by AnhydrousLove at 4:22 AM on March 15, 2019 [36 favorites]
"It's 'white people need to have more babies and kick out the non-white people' . That's it, that's the manifesto."
Right, it's not actually that complicated.
But that's not to say it's trivial, or that it's not an ideology, or that it's not actually political, or that it's not radicalized hate-speech with a documented history and well-established cultural institutions and rhetorical tropes reified as terroristic murder.
When it's rabbit holes filled with ISIL web posts and videos, we get long thinkpieces about how and why and by whom this propoganda is created and disseminated and why it has an audience. We get government surveillance and watchlists. We get talking heads musing darkly about cells and networks.
When the rabbit holes lead into the muck of the alt-right, however, we hear it's ironic performance and idiosyncratic, that boys will be boys, that all the murdering is the sui generis coincidence of the occasional depraved mind. It's certainly not the lethal product of a system, a worldview, a community of like-minded people who openly embrace violence as political expression. Oh, it's not that. That we reserve for those other people.
Resist this narrative with every bit of strength we have, in every way, all the time.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 4:27 AM on March 15, 2019 [67 favorites]
Right, it's not actually that complicated.
But that's not to say it's trivial, or that it's not an ideology, or that it's not actually political, or that it's not radicalized hate-speech with a documented history and well-established cultural institutions and rhetorical tropes reified as terroristic murder.
When it's rabbit holes filled with ISIL web posts and videos, we get long thinkpieces about how and why and by whom this propoganda is created and disseminated and why it has an audience. We get government surveillance and watchlists. We get talking heads musing darkly about cells and networks.
When the rabbit holes lead into the muck of the alt-right, however, we hear it's ironic performance and idiosyncratic, that boys will be boys, that all the murdering is the sui generis coincidence of the occasional depraved mind. It's certainly not the lethal product of a system, a worldview, a community of like-minded people who openly embrace violence as political expression. Oh, it's not that. That we reserve for those other people.
Resist this narrative with every bit of strength we have, in every way, all the time.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 4:27 AM on March 15, 2019 [67 favorites]
Thread from Wajahat Ali (Threadreader) about online radicalization and white supremacist terrorism in Norway, Quebec, Pittsburgh, Charlottesville, and now Christchurch.
.
posted by Doktor Zed at 4:31 AM on March 15, 2019 [12 favorites]
.
posted by Doktor Zed at 4:31 AM on March 15, 2019 [12 favorites]
Jacinta Ardern is doing the right thing by calling it what it is instead of playing the misunderstood lone wolf bullshit that is fed to us consistently by white supremacist media distributed along white supremacist technology, aided by the white supremacist agents sitting in every tech giant HQ.
posted by infini at 4:59 AM on March 15, 2019 [19 favorites]
posted by infini at 4:59 AM on March 15, 2019 [19 favorites]
A now-heartbreaking Quora thread: Do Muslims feel safe in New Zealand?
posted by clawsoon at 5:13 AM on March 15, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by clawsoon at 5:13 AM on March 15, 2019 [2 favorites]
Scott Morrison earlier today:
"It is the work of hate. I've got no other way to describe it. That sort of hateful thinking has just reaped murder and misery on a peaceful people just going about their practice of faith on a Friday. It's disgusting."
Maybe he can say this to Alan "Cronulla" Jones's face next time he cosies up to him on his show.
posted by mosessis at 5:25 AM on March 15, 2019 [6 favorites]
"It is the work of hate. I've got no other way to describe it. That sort of hateful thinking has just reaped murder and misery on a peaceful people just going about their practice of faith on a Friday. It's disgusting."
Maybe he can say this to Alan "Cronulla" Jones's face next time he cosies up to him on his show.
posted by mosessis at 5:25 AM on March 15, 2019 [6 favorites]
Scott Morrison using the terms “right-wing extremism” as if it were unambiguously a bad thing does give off an Uncanny Valley/Invasion Of The Body Snatchers creepiness.
posted by acb at 5:32 AM on March 15, 2019 [5 favorites]
posted by acb at 5:32 AM on March 15, 2019 [5 favorites]
acts like this further the ISIL agenda (link to mid Twitter thread from a counter-terrorist expert)
posted by idiopath at 5:34 AM on March 15, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by idiopath at 5:34 AM on March 15, 2019 [1 favorite]
Stochastic terrorism yet again results in deaths, and no repercussions for the people who engaged in the acts that produced the terrorism.
Make absolutely no mistake here. Donald John Trump is responsible for this. FOX News is responsible for this. The Australia First Party is responsible for this. 4chan is responsible for this. Even PewDiePie is responsible for this.
None of those people and groups, and the hundreds of others out there, are wholly responsible. But each played their part in a steady drumbeat of calls for violence that they knew would eventually be answered by someone.
It is absolutely essential that we remember, and talk about this, not as a lone wolf attack, not as a tragedy, but as terrorism being deliberately and willfully created by the collective right wing media. The responsibility is shared by so many that it's easy to fall into the trap of believing that no one is really responsible, but that's not true. Intentional bad actors did this on purpose.
This is the desired, intended, end result of the propaganda and hate spread by FOX and Trump and 4chan and all the others. That's why Trump's only response to this act of terrorism was to link to Breitbart's (!) coverage. Because he wanted this to happen, and he wants more of the same to keep on happening.
Never forget that this was as intentional and planned as if they had personally recruited and trained the terrorists.
posted by sotonohito at 5:34 AM on March 15, 2019 [104 favorites]
Make absolutely no mistake here. Donald John Trump is responsible for this. FOX News is responsible for this. The Australia First Party is responsible for this. 4chan is responsible for this. Even PewDiePie is responsible for this.
None of those people and groups, and the hundreds of others out there, are wholly responsible. But each played their part in a steady drumbeat of calls for violence that they knew would eventually be answered by someone.
It is absolutely essential that we remember, and talk about this, not as a lone wolf attack, not as a tragedy, but as terrorism being deliberately and willfully created by the collective right wing media. The responsibility is shared by so many that it's easy to fall into the trap of believing that no one is really responsible, but that's not true. Intentional bad actors did this on purpose.
This is the desired, intended, end result of the propaganda and hate spread by FOX and Trump and 4chan and all the others. That's why Trump's only response to this act of terrorism was to link to Breitbart's (!) coverage. Because he wanted this to happen, and he wants more of the same to keep on happening.
Never forget that this was as intentional and planned as if they had personally recruited and trained the terrorists.
posted by sotonohito at 5:34 AM on March 15, 2019 [104 favorites]
I posted this back in 2017 during the Las Vegas shooting. It's just as relevant here and I'm going to quote it in full:
REMINDER:posted by Fizz at 5:38 AM on March 15, 2019 [29 favorites]
1. Choose not to hate.
2. Choose not to make baseless assumptions.
3. Choose not to be online or engage in social media.
4. Love.
5. Think.
If you find this kind of news overwhelming, distressing, and traumatic. Consider signing out of your social media/news-feeds. In a few days the news will settle and more truthful and reliable information will be out. And emotions will also not be at as high a level. Stay safe.
I hate that I've posted this exact same comment multiple times within the past few years. Too many times. Fuck.
Unlike the US, New Zealand calls right wing extremists terrorists. It's a start.
posted by tommasz at 5:43 AM on March 15, 2019 [28 favorites]
posted by tommasz at 5:43 AM on March 15, 2019 [28 favorites]
I see Trump has decided in his tweet to address his condolences to "the people of New Zealand" and not the victims. I think we all know why.
posted by Buck Alec at 6:00 AM on March 15, 2019 [31 favorites]
posted by Buck Alec at 6:00 AM on March 15, 2019 [31 favorites]
How to support New Zealand's Muslim Communities
posted by carrioncomfort at 6:10 AM on March 15, 2019 [11 favorites]
posted by carrioncomfort at 6:10 AM on March 15, 2019 [11 favorites]
. . . . . . .
. . . . . . .
. . . . . . .
. . . . . . .
. . . . . . .
. . . . . . .
. . . . . . .
My heart breaks for this evil.
posted by meinvt at 6:17 AM on March 15, 2019 [1 favorite]
. . . . . . .
. . . . . . .
. . . . . . .
. . . . . . .
. . . . . . .
. . . . . . .
My heart breaks for this evil.
posted by meinvt at 6:17 AM on March 15, 2019 [1 favorite]
I am in the U.S. and have only visited Christchurch for a short period of time, but I was struck at the time by the kindness. My heart aches to think of people there, subject to this hate.
posted by past unusual at 6:21 AM on March 15, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by past unusual at 6:21 AM on March 15, 2019 [1 favorite]
I can't even ask what this world is coming to, because we're there. I hurt for everyone.
My God that video is everywhere.
posted by kimberussell at 6:24 AM on March 15, 2019 [4 favorites]
My God that video is everywhere.
posted by kimberussell at 6:24 AM on March 15, 2019 [4 favorites]
Andrew Scheer, Canada's Conservative leader and long time friend of the alt-right, couldn't find the human decency to use the words "Muslims" or "mosque," surprising approximately nobody (except the complicit media)
posted by Yowser at 6:31 AM on March 15, 2019 [9 favorites]
posted by Yowser at 6:31 AM on March 15, 2019 [9 favorites]
imo we'll discover eventually that the choice of new zealand for the perpetuation of this horror right now was extremely strategic
posted by infini
...
infini sadly I agree
Do you mind explaining this a little bit more?
My first reaction in hearing about this (other then how terrible it is of course) is that NZ seems like a safer/more sane place with better gun laws. so this is going to arm the gun nuts with the narrative of "see, gun laws don't work, look at NZ." is this what you mean? or is it just strategic in the sense of being able to connect a mass shooting with an influx of immigrants? i mean that also makes no sense when it was a white supremacist doing the shooting. i don't know a ton about NZ so I'm curious to understand this better.
i agree with the sentiment stated a couple times above that at least, refreshingly, the Prime Minister is calling this shit out for what it is using words like "terrorist" and "white supremacy".
jilder: I want to go and just do something, anything, to show those kids and their families that they're welcome here, they're just as much a part of this place as anyone else.
i feel the same way and i guess the worst part and why this feels so terrible is that it makes clear that in the end there really is no way for any one of us to guarantee safety for anyone else. no matter how welcoming we are or how safe a place feels, the danger remains as long as this internet-based radicalization continues and people continue to have guns. it's a good wake up call though, honestly, i've recently been fantasizing about leaving the US and have even taken to perusing job postings in NZ thinking that i could somehow escape the insanity of Trump's America. but of course the truth is this is a global problem it cannot be escaped no matter where you go. which i do know but i was trying to naively pretend otherwise. i've been reminded now that the only choice is to keep fighting as hard as we can against this shit, no matter where we are, or no matter how bleak it seems, because really what other choice do we have?
my condolences to everyone
posted by robotdevil at 6:37 AM on March 15, 2019 [13 favorites]
Nightcrawler wasn't enough of a satire, it turns out.
posted by Going To Maine at 6:51 AM on March 15, 2019
posted by Going To Maine at 6:51 AM on March 15, 2019
> My God that video is everywhere.
I've seen it posted 4 times on Twitter when I was reading threads entirely unrelated to the tragedy in NZ. I have to wonder if bots are involved in its spread.
These tech companies like to brag endlessly about video "fingerprinting" and how they can keep copyrighted material off their platforms, but they can't handle deleting sub-edits of this single vile video?
posted by a complicated history at 6:54 AM on March 15, 2019 [31 favorites]
I've seen it posted 4 times on Twitter when I was reading threads entirely unrelated to the tragedy in NZ. I have to wonder if bots are involved in its spread.
These tech companies like to brag endlessly about video "fingerprinting" and how they can keep copyrighted material off their platforms, but they can't handle deleting sub-edits of this single vile video?
posted by a complicated history at 6:54 AM on March 15, 2019 [31 favorites]
I was just in CHCH a few weeks ago. South Island is lovely, the people were nice and everything was amazing.
My heart breaks for them.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 6:57 AM on March 15, 2019 [1 favorite]
My heart breaks for them.
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 6:57 AM on March 15, 2019 [1 favorite]
And because things aren't terrible enough, this is an official press release from an elected senator in Australia.
Certainly not doing Australia's image as a foul pit of venomous snakes any favors with that one.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 6:58 AM on March 15, 2019 [4 favorites]
Certainly not doing Australia's image as a foul pit of venomous snakes any favors with that one.
posted by Xyanthilous P. Harrierstick at 6:58 AM on March 15, 2019 [4 favorites]
Events like this are why I’ve toned down the rhetoric of my atheism over the years.
I don’t believe that religion is good for the world — any religion — but I will be DAMNED if my opinions will be used as cover for racist or anti-semitic violence.
posted by ChrisR at 7:02 AM on March 15, 2019 [52 favorites]
I don’t believe that religion is good for the world — any religion — but I will be DAMNED if my opinions will be used as cover for racist or anti-semitic violence.
posted by ChrisR at 7:02 AM on March 15, 2019 [52 favorites]
I want to go and just do something, anything...I don't know how to do that without making this about me
I saw someone on Twitter suggesting this morning that you send a message of support and solidarity to your local Mosque, so I did that. It was literally just via the contact form on their website, who knows if they'll even see it, but felt like something was better than nothing. Hard to know what to write so I just said that while everyone was horrified to see this news, I knew it must be particularly frightening for our local Mosque community, and that our Muslim friends are a loved and respected part of our city.
posted by penguin pie at 7:15 AM on March 15, 2019 [52 favorites]
I saw someone on Twitter suggesting this morning that you send a message of support and solidarity to your local Mosque, so I did that. It was literally just via the contact form on their website, who knows if they'll even see it, but felt like something was better than nothing. Hard to know what to write so I just said that while everyone was horrified to see this news, I knew it must be particularly frightening for our local Mosque community, and that our Muslim friends are a loved and respected part of our city.
posted by penguin pie at 7:15 AM on March 15, 2019 [52 favorites]
Oh, and just checked my email and got a beautiful message of thanks back from the Mosque. Glad I did it.
posted by penguin pie at 7:23 AM on March 15, 2019 [30 favorites]
posted by penguin pie at 7:23 AM on March 15, 2019 [30 favorites]
Thank you for relaying that suggestion, penguin pie. I just sent my local Mosque an email.
posted by kimberussell at 7:31 AM on March 15, 2019 [8 favorites]
posted by kimberussell at 7:31 AM on March 15, 2019 [8 favorites]
We lived in NZ for over a year about a decade ago. If things had been slightly different with my health I think we'd probably be living there permanently. This has been a shocking and heartbreaking story to wake up to, and as it has sunk in over the course of the day I've felt worse and worse. Please don't let this harden your mind, NZ; you are better than this, and the terrorists win if we allow this to blacken even the smallest part of our psyche. Grieve, lament, condemn, yes, but I hope the cynicism and bitterness that is all too common elsewhere is left behind
posted by trif at 7:35 AM on March 15, 2019 [3 favorites]
posted by trif at 7:35 AM on March 15, 2019 [3 favorites]
I'm rather surprised by people saying not to share the manifesto; it's not the parrot from BLIT, it's a shitposty evil document that ought to be examined and taken apart.
@Frank364291 isn't going to provide a helpful examination of this document. Your racist cousin isn't going to take it apart to winnow out the path this particular shitbird followed into the alt-right cesspool.
posted by Etrigan at 7:37 AM on March 15, 2019 [18 favorites]
@Frank364291 isn't going to provide a helpful examination of this document. Your racist cousin isn't going to take it apart to winnow out the path this particular shitbird followed into the alt-right cesspool.
posted by Etrigan at 7:37 AM on March 15, 2019 [18 favorites]
And because things aren't terrible enough, this is an official press release from an elected senator in Australia.
I concur with the assessment of the honourable member for Whitlam, that said senator is a fuckwit.
posted by zamboni at 7:42 AM on March 15, 2019 [10 favorites]
I concur with the assessment of the honourable member for Whitlam, that said senator is a fuckwit.
posted by zamboni at 7:42 AM on March 15, 2019 [10 favorites]
The manifesto was designed to be full of keywords that will lead to hate forums. It is a terrorist recruitment tool. That's why it shouldn't be shared.
posted by showbiz_liz at 7:46 AM on March 15, 2019 [56 favorites]
posted by showbiz_liz at 7:46 AM on March 15, 2019 [56 favorites]
Said senator got 19 votes, and is only serving because he was first in line to replace former Senator Malcolm Roberts, who was also a fuckwit. He was a sovereign citizen who believed he knew how the law worked, and who believed that NASA had faked climate change because he believed he knew how climatology worked. Hilariously, he also believed that emailing the British embassy via an address he knew in his heart was correct was sufficient to renounce his British citizenship (a necessary step to serve in the Australian parliament, don't ask). The judge did not agree that Malcolm Roberts' opinion was a valid replacement for reality.
So we're stuck with a vile bigot in parliament for another couple of months.
posted by Merus at 7:52 AM on March 15, 2019 [6 favorites]
So we're stuck with a vile bigot in parliament for another couple of months.
posted by Merus at 7:52 AM on March 15, 2019 [6 favorites]
I've seen a lot of reporting mention "subscribe to PewDiePie" like it's just a random meme thrown out to be funny or confuse people. This is wrong. That phrase may have started relatively innocently, but it's become a favorite catchphrase of white supremacists who use it specifically because it has a veneer of plausible deniability. Anyway, I hope PewDiePie enjoys all his new subscribers.
posted by theodolite at 7:52 AM on March 15, 2019 [24 favorites]
posted by theodolite at 7:52 AM on March 15, 2019 [24 favorites]
Unlike the US, New Zealand calls right wing extremists terrorists. It's a start.
Right now, I'm looking for any of our elected officials or many Democratic presidential candidates to use the words terror/terrorism or "white supremacy".
So far it's only been three: Hillary Clinton, Kirsten Gillibrand, and Cory Booker.
posted by asteria at 7:53 AM on March 15, 2019 [21 favorites]
penguin pie, thank you for the suggestion. I just sent short emails to my community’s two Mosques.
I don’t know what else to do. What a world...
posted by bookmammal at 7:59 AM on March 15, 2019 [4 favorites]
I don’t know what else to do. What a world...
posted by bookmammal at 7:59 AM on March 15, 2019 [4 favorites]
Bellingcat has a pretty good explanation of the manifesto's shibboleths, in jokes and references without romanticizing it at all.
posted by Sophie1 at 8:02 AM on March 15, 2019 [19 favorites]
posted by Sophie1 at 8:02 AM on March 15, 2019 [19 favorites]
.
posted by Foci for Analysis at 8:02 AM on March 15, 2019
posted by Foci for Analysis at 8:02 AM on March 15, 2019
There is some value in looking at the manifesto. Because it reveals where the hate comes from, it's unmistakable.
Exactly. Ignoring these manifestos makes it easier for people to pretend that these terrorist attacks are just a series of lone wolves. They're not. They may not have a top-down hierarchy, but these people are absolutely coordinated and see themselves as part of the same struggle.
I'm not saying post the contents and call it a day. (And actually airing video of an assault is positively ghoulish.) But the media have a responsibility to report on the contents of these manifestos and connect the dots between these attacks.
posted by tobascodagama at 8:06 AM on March 15, 2019 [4 favorites]
Exactly. Ignoring these manifestos makes it easier for people to pretend that these terrorist attacks are just a series of lone wolves. They're not. They may not have a top-down hierarchy, but these people are absolutely coordinated and see themselves as part of the same struggle.
I'm not saying post the contents and call it a day. (And actually airing video of an assault is positively ghoulish.) But the media have a responsibility to report on the contents of these manifestos and connect the dots between these attacks.
posted by tobascodagama at 8:06 AM on March 15, 2019 [4 favorites]
Shitposting, Inspirational Terrorism, and the Christchurch Mosque Massacre.
Bellingcat.
This is an excellent article with which I’m going to slightly disagree - all the shit these guys throw out constantly isn’t a distraction, it’s an identifier. They signal to each other with this shared language and use it as a marker. Mentions of “lightweight” white supremicist supremicist like PewDiePie and Candance Owens May seem joking, but those guys are very much of the toxic stew that goes into these guys brains. If your reaction to the article is to dismiss the threat posed by entry organizations such as gamergate then I’d ask you to re-examine that.
I feel like we’re not going to get good reporting on this until people fully understand the concept of “kidding on the square”.
posted by Artw at 8:07 AM on March 15, 2019 [40 favorites]
Bellingcat.
This is an excellent article with which I’m going to slightly disagree - all the shit these guys throw out constantly isn’t a distraction, it’s an identifier. They signal to each other with this shared language and use it as a marker. Mentions of “lightweight” white supremicist supremicist like PewDiePie and Candance Owens May seem joking, but those guys are very much of the toxic stew that goes into these guys brains. If your reaction to the article is to dismiss the threat posed by entry organizations such as gamergate then I’d ask you to re-examine that.
I feel like we’re not going to get good reporting on this until people fully understand the concept of “kidding on the square”.
posted by Artw at 8:07 AM on March 15, 2019 [40 favorites]
Bellingcat has a pretty good explanation of the manifesto's shibboleths, in jokes and references without romanticizing it at all.
I like the analysis at Sophie1's link, because it goes to the trouble of first distilling out the cognitive noise of the information warfare component -- the component the media will fixate on, at the expense of anything more significant. It looks like wide swaths of the "manifesto" are nothing but trending traps. #clickthrough
posted by Construction Concern at 8:09 AM on March 15, 2019
I like the analysis at Sophie1's link, because it goes to the trouble of first distilling out the cognitive noise of the information warfare component -- the component the media will fixate on, at the expense of anything more significant. It looks like wide swaths of the "manifesto" are nothing but trending traps. #clickthrough
posted by Construction Concern at 8:09 AM on March 15, 2019
There's a big difference between saying "don't share it" and "pay no attention to it". Some people seem to be saying the latter, that it signifies little. Other people seem to intend to say the former, but in a roundabout way that inadvertently implies the latter. It does signify -- we (collectively, with expert mediation) should pay attention to it.
As individuals, most of us absolutely do not need to see that odious white supremacist murder video or read that white supremacist manifesto. We damn sure oughtn't propagate them. But we need to know they exist and we need to know what they mean.
Recall that we were immediately told that Breivik's manifesto was a giant dumpster fire of online detritus that is more obfuscatory than illuminating, that we shouldn't take it at face value. And, in fact, it proved to be a giant dumpster fire of online detritus. But it was nevertheless exactly what it seemed to be. A hate-filled, white supremacist giant dumpster fire of online detritus is precisely what the alt-right is.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 8:09 AM on March 15, 2019 [24 favorites]
As individuals, most of us absolutely do not need to see that odious white supremacist murder video or read that white supremacist manifesto. We damn sure oughtn't propagate them. But we need to know they exist and we need to know what they mean.
Recall that we were immediately told that Breivik's manifesto was a giant dumpster fire of online detritus that is more obfuscatory than illuminating, that we shouldn't take it at face value. And, in fact, it proved to be a giant dumpster fire of online detritus. But it was nevertheless exactly what it seemed to be. A hate-filled, white supremacist giant dumpster fire of online detritus is precisely what the alt-right is.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 8:09 AM on March 15, 2019 [24 favorites]
.
posted by RedOrGreen at 8:12 AM on March 15, 2019
posted by RedOrGreen at 8:12 AM on March 15, 2019
I'm rather surprised by people saying not to share the manifesto
Every professional analysis I've seen so far from, like, an actual expert has made clear that:
1. The manifesto was intentionally set up as a shitpost to maximize mainstream media attention.
2. The mainstream media is not good at explaining shitposting, or the meme-y parts of the manifesto.
3. Googling the phrases used in the shitposting/memes will lead you straight to festering pools of right-wing hate.
4. The manifesto is completely consistent with now-standard right-wing recruitment tactics that work by trying to lead as many people as possible to festering pools of right-wing hate in the hopes that a portion will end up staying.
So no, we shouldn't share the manifesto.
posted by joyceanmachine at 8:13 AM on March 15, 2019 [99 favorites]
Every professional analysis I've seen so far from, like, an actual expert has made clear that:
1. The manifesto was intentionally set up as a shitpost to maximize mainstream media attention.
2. The mainstream media is not good at explaining shitposting, or the meme-y parts of the manifesto.
3. Googling the phrases used in the shitposting/memes will lead you straight to festering pools of right-wing hate.
4. The manifesto is completely consistent with now-standard right-wing recruitment tactics that work by trying to lead as many people as possible to festering pools of right-wing hate in the hopes that a portion will end up staying.
So no, we shouldn't share the manifesto.
posted by joyceanmachine at 8:13 AM on March 15, 2019 [99 favorites]
I was quietly looking forward to the day when John Oliver did another segment about us. But not like this.
posted by dashdotdot dash at 8:17 AM on March 15, 2019 [6 favorites]
posted by dashdotdot dash at 8:17 AM on March 15, 2019 [6 favorites]
Ben Shapiro is absolutely shitting himself at the idea of anyone sharing the manifesto, but not for good reasons.
posted by Artw at 8:20 AM on March 15, 2019 [7 favorites]
posted by Artw at 8:20 AM on March 15, 2019 [7 favorites]
"Do not share the killer's name and manifesto" is being forcefully pushed by the people who share responsibility for the murders. It's entirely cynical and manipulative: "you mustn't point out the blood on my hands, that's just what the crazy man wants you to do."
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:23 AM on March 15, 2019 [24 favorites]
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:23 AM on March 15, 2019 [24 favorites]
Shapiro is also adamant about not sharing the terrorist’s name. The same Shapiro who constantly rails against and calls out by name any Muslim attacker.
posted by chris24 at 8:24 AM on March 15, 2019 [9 favorites]
posted by chris24 at 8:24 AM on March 15, 2019 [9 favorites]
Condolences and love to people of New Zealand and to Muslims everywhere. Beyond horrific, my heart bleeds.
Penguin Pie, thanks for your suggestion to reach out to our local mosque to offer messages of support. In fact, in researching that, I see that Massachusetts has Open Mosque Day on April 8 to foster visits to 21 mosques throughout the state. I think that is something I will want to to do this year. It's past time to get to know my local Muslim neighbors.
posted by madamjujujive at 8:24 AM on March 15, 2019 [7 favorites]
Penguin Pie, thanks for your suggestion to reach out to our local mosque to offer messages of support. In fact, in researching that, I see that Massachusetts has Open Mosque Day on April 8 to foster visits to 21 mosques throughout the state. I think that is something I will want to to do this year. It's past time to get to know my local Muslim neighbors.
posted by madamjujujive at 8:24 AM on March 15, 2019 [7 favorites]
I’m sorry, but I strongly disagree with the notions that reading the manifesto is important or worth investigating. You want to know what the manifesto says? Go look at FOX News; watch the things your representatives and politicians say out in the open, and have been saying for decades at this point; go read online comments sections; go read Reddit; in fact, some of you may be unlucky enough to go onto your relatives’ Facebook profiles or Twitter accounts to see the same shit that’s in the manifesto.
It’s ludicrous to think these ISIS wannabes have anything significant to say, any deep thoughts worthy of examination. They’re scum, it’s as simple as that, and we can find out who their allies are by looking at their Twitter accounts and the statements they make to the media, and from there we know who needs to be shunned from society.
This piece by Masuma Rahim is about thoughts and prayers, but she lays it out much more eloquently than I do:
posted by gucci mane at 8:28 AM on March 15, 2019 [51 favorites]
It’s ludicrous to think these ISIS wannabes have anything significant to say, any deep thoughts worthy of examination. They’re scum, it’s as simple as that, and we can find out who their allies are by looking at their Twitter accounts and the statements they make to the media, and from there we know who needs to be shunned from society.
This piece by Masuma Rahim is about thoughts and prayers, but she lays it out much more eloquently than I do:
Every single day, people like me are subject to a media onslaught. Every single day, we are demonised, both by the people who make our laws and by the people who have significant influence over public opinion. And when I say “we”, I don’t just mean Muslims. Because it’s not just Muslims who are losing their lives at the hands of far-right nationalism. It’s Jews and Sikhs and black people. Because when fascism comes to call, it usually doesn’t care what shade of “different” you are. All it knows is that you are different, and it does not like you for it.The filth is mainstream, you don’t need to examine some scumbag’s manifesto to understand it.
My fury and my pain is not lessened when a Jewish person is killed, or when a Hindu person is killed. We share a common humanity and that is sufficient for us to feel rage and pain. And it is evident that very many people do feel a sense of shared humanity with those targeted in attacks. Those emotions are not specific to people of colour, or to religious minorities. We do not own them. But marginalised people do have an acute understanding of what it is to live their lives in a constant state of low-level alert.
How could we not? We’ve spent the past 20 years watching the world around us change beyond all recognition. Endless wars in the Middle East. Talk of “clashes” of ideology and culture. Refugee children left to die in the sea. The Windrush scandal. Rightwing nationalists given platforms that no one would have dreamed of giving them in the 1990s. There was a time when the very notion of the leaders of extremist parties appearing on Question Time was criticised heavily from almost all quarters.
These days we have racists and extremists on mainstream television all the time, and hardly anyone in any position of influence bats an eyelid. Those in power have made their position clear: they will invade our countries of origin and they will plunder our resources, but they don’t want us in their countries. They value our oil but they don’t value us. They dress it up as “free speech” but through their actions hatred has been legitimised, and minorities die because of it. You may disagree, but it is the truth.
posted by gucci mane at 8:28 AM on March 15, 2019 [51 favorites]
These massacres is something Muslims in most Western countries risk facing. I'm seeing the same patterns of violent white supremacy in Sweden and I fear it's just a matter of time before someone attacks one of the mosques here.
posted by Foci for Analysis at 8:31 AM on March 15, 2019 [3 favorites]
posted by Foci for Analysis at 8:31 AM on March 15, 2019 [3 favorites]
That's the whole point, gucci mane. Most people don't understand that these extremist terrorists are inspired by the public figures we hear from all the time, and they never will until they can see that the terrorists are using the exact same language, if not outright citing their inspirations.
posted by tobascodagama at 8:31 AM on March 15, 2019 [17 favorites]
posted by tobascodagama at 8:31 AM on March 15, 2019 [17 favorites]
If we ignore the manifesto then we lose the ability to relate hateful speech in the media and out of the mouths of our politicians directly to acts like these. It needs to be said loudly, and it needs to be so impossible to ignore that they cant deny it any more... and even then it might not be enough, because by then they might have poisoned the well so much that people just don't care.
posted by trif at 8:36 AM on March 15, 2019 [3 favorites]
posted by trif at 8:36 AM on March 15, 2019 [3 favorites]
.
posted by limeonaire at 8:39 AM on March 15, 2019
posted by limeonaire at 8:39 AM on March 15, 2019
Members of a refugee family who had fled Syria’s civil war appeared to be among the victims, Ali Akil, an Auckland-based spokesman for Syrian Solidarity New Zealand, said in an interview. The family’s father was killed, a son was seriously wounded, and another son was reported missing, Akil said, citing information he had received from a friend of the family.
Akil said the family had likely come to New Zealand in the past four or five years, to “a safe haven, only to be killed here."
Isaac Stanley-Becker, Eli Rosenberg, and Alex Horton, WaPo.
posted by joyceanmachine at 8:48 AM on March 15, 2019 [14 favorites]
If we ignore the manifesto then we lose the ability to relate hateful speech in the media and out of the mouths of our politicians directly to acts like these.
We can point out that this murderer directly cited Donald Trump as an inspiration without sharing the manifesto.
posted by Gelatin at 8:50 AM on March 15, 2019 [35 favorites]
We can point out that this murderer directly cited Donald Trump as an inspiration without sharing the manifesto.
posted by Gelatin at 8:50 AM on March 15, 2019 [35 favorites]
You know, the votes of barely 2% of all Australians elected that one senator, almost all in complete ignorance of who he was, whereas the votes of 20% of all Americans elected Donald J. Trump, the actual president, knowing full well what they were doing. I am an Australian, I know there is a deep racist rot at the centre of our history, economy, politics and media, and I want it excised desperately, but I'm not interested in any kind of performative self-flagellation that unwittingly provides cover for the institutions of the United States, the primary progenitors of both the technology and the ideology that radicalised the Christchurch shooter.
I am so sorry for the victims and for the Christchurch community.
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posted by Panthalassa at 8:50 AM on March 15, 2019 [19 favorites]
I am so sorry for the victims and for the Christchurch community.
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posted by Panthalassa at 8:50 AM on March 15, 2019 [19 favorites]
Putting it differently, while most of the impetus behind disregarding the manifesto is the commendable "don't amplify the message", the message is already amplified, it's everywhere, the genie is out of the bottle. The call is coming from inside the house.
This guy wrote the same things that the guy down the street writes. It's not a well-nigh impenetrable subculture that requires an ocean voyage to join -- all one needs is a game console and a web browser. These murdering terrorists are not pretending to be lulz-seeking 8chan online trolls, that's who they are. That's their milleu, their identity, and their message. How many of these twentysomething white guys do we need to see before we notice a pattern?
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 8:55 AM on March 15, 2019 [26 favorites]
This guy wrote the same things that the guy down the street writes. It's not a well-nigh impenetrable subculture that requires an ocean voyage to join -- all one needs is a game console and a web browser. These murdering terrorists are not pretending to be lulz-seeking 8chan online trolls, that's who they are. That's their milleu, their identity, and their message. How many of these twentysomething white guys do we need to see before we notice a pattern?
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 8:55 AM on March 15, 2019 [26 favorites]
This thread is moving fast so it may have been mentioned already, but the killer apparently set up relatively fresh social media accounts.
This was to have a highly curated social media presence ready to be disseminated.
That he makes ironic jokes that Owens (a black woman) goes too far for him is no accident. This is not to absolve her; she is absolutely an anti-Semite, an islamaphobe, and has spread the same neo nazi talking points that are in the manifesto.
That is to say, she is responsible for a great deal of hatred, but in reality is probably not a motivator for him. In reality, she wasn't nearly extreme enough for him, even though she's a Hitler defender.
That's the sort of context that the mainstream media is incapable of. That's several paragraphs to explain one line.
posted by Yowser at 8:57 AM on March 15, 2019 [15 favorites]
This was to have a highly curated social media presence ready to be disseminated.
That he makes ironic jokes that Owens (a black woman) goes too far for him is no accident. This is not to absolve her; she is absolutely an anti-Semite, an islamaphobe, and has spread the same neo nazi talking points that are in the manifesto.
That is to say, she is responsible for a great deal of hatred, but in reality is probably not a motivator for him. In reality, she wasn't nearly extreme enough for him, even though she's a Hitler defender.
That's the sort of context that the mainstream media is incapable of. That's several paragraphs to explain one line.
posted by Yowser at 8:57 AM on March 15, 2019 [15 favorites]
What terrible news. I was in Christchurch a month ago, and was struck by how peaceful everything was. The city has not yet recovered from the earthquakes, but this is another level of tragedy. I am heart sick at the continuous demonisation of muslims.
posted by dhruva at 9:00 AM on March 15, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by dhruva at 9:00 AM on March 15, 2019 [1 favorite]
Oh my god, I didn’t bother checking the news today until a few minutes ago, so this is the first I’ve heard of this. I’m beyond horrified. There has to be a way to see a positive way forward for humanity, but it’s so hard not to feel as though everything is just hopeless at a time like this.
This is a crime of the internet. There are people who have been quietly worming their way into message boards and social media for many years. This attack was the direct outcome of a concerted effort to indoctrinate and brainwash. Everything about this attack was designed to further indoctrinate and inflame.
What can we all do about it, starting today? It’s not enough to be informed. What good is faith without action, right?
posted by shapes that haunt the dusk at 9:08 AM on March 15, 2019 [9 favorites]
This is a crime of the internet. There are people who have been quietly worming their way into message boards and social media for many years. This attack was the direct outcome of a concerted effort to indoctrinate and brainwash. Everything about this attack was designed to further indoctrinate and inflame.
What can we all do about it, starting today? It’s not enough to be informed. What good is faith without action, right?
posted by shapes that haunt the dusk at 9:08 AM on March 15, 2019 [9 favorites]
penguin pie, thank you for posting about emailing your local mosques. I just did the same for one around the corner from my office and one near my apartment.
posted by showbiz_liz at 9:09 AM on March 15, 2019 [8 favorites]
posted by showbiz_liz at 9:09 AM on March 15, 2019 [8 favorites]
There has to be a way to see a positive way forward for humanity, but it’s so hard not to feel as though everything is just hopeless at a time like this.
I hear you. I feel the same way. I think these scumbags timed this deliberately to eclipse the School Strike, which should have been the day's big news. We can't let them take that away without a fight. Don't fall for the shitposting. Stay strong.
Christchurch, I am so, so, sorry.
posted by Elizabeth the Thirteenth at 9:15 AM on March 15, 2019 [5 favorites]
I hear you. I feel the same way. I think these scumbags timed this deliberately to eclipse the School Strike, which should have been the day's big news. We can't let them take that away without a fight. Don't fall for the shitposting. Stay strong.
Christchurch, I am so, so, sorry.
posted by Elizabeth the Thirteenth at 9:15 AM on March 15, 2019 [5 favorites]
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posted by JoeXIII007 at 9:30 AM on March 15, 2019
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posted by JoeXIII007 at 9:30 AM on March 15, 2019
Ethnofascism is everywhere. That’s what he wanted to say. How the hell do we stop it.
.
posted by cotton dress sock at 9:37 AM on March 15, 2019 [2 favorites]
.
posted by cotton dress sock at 9:37 AM on March 15, 2019 [2 favorites]
Ethnofascism is everywhere. That’s what he wanted to say. How the hell do we stop it.
First, we stop letting people off the hook for defending it. No more weasel words - if people are going to say that hate, bigotry, and fascism is the "price" of free speech, we need to make them own that position.
Second, we start kicking the bigots out,and cutting off their oxygen. They need people to support them - we need to knock those pillars out.
posted by NoxAeternum at 9:43 AM on March 15, 2019 [20 favorites]
First, we stop letting people off the hook for defending it. No more weasel words - if people are going to say that hate, bigotry, and fascism is the "price" of free speech, we need to make them own that position.
Second, we start kicking the bigots out,and cutting off their oxygen. They need people to support them - we need to knock those pillars out.
posted by NoxAeternum at 9:43 AM on March 15, 2019 [20 favorites]
It’s an international movement, so pointing at Country X rather than the movement as a whole is rather pointless. The US is a locus of activity at the moment because it’s a locus for everything, culturally, but US right wing media will promote hate mongers from all over the world.
posted by Artw at 9:52 AM on March 15, 2019 [6 favorites]
posted by Artw at 9:52 AM on March 15, 2019 [6 favorites]
First, we stop letting people off the hook for defending it.
That’s going to be bad news for the Andrew Yang thread.
posted by Artw at 9:53 AM on March 15, 2019 [4 favorites]
That’s going to be bad news for the Andrew Yang thread.
posted by Artw at 9:53 AM on March 15, 2019 [4 favorites]
Dear New Zealand, I'm so sorry. It feels like the rampant gun violence, gun-love, white supremacist terrorism, and hate, fomented in the US, encouraged not so subtly by our vile President, has spilled onto your country. This is a terrible tragedy. It *is* political. I will 'hold you in the light'.
posted by theora55 at 10:03 AM on March 15, 2019
posted by theora55 at 10:03 AM on March 15, 2019
So no, we shouldn't share the manifesto.
not today anyway ... or tomorrow, or maybe until next week, next month whenever. There's a way to do it, I think (ie: via rational critical breakdown etc), and that way is not going to be feasible as long as the shock of the event is still acute. Right now, it's just more f***ing noise.
posted by philip-random at 10:03 AM on March 15, 2019
not today anyway ... or tomorrow, or maybe until next week, next month whenever. There's a way to do it, I think (ie: via rational critical breakdown etc), and that way is not going to be feasible as long as the shock of the event is still acute. Right now, it's just more f***ing noise.
posted by philip-random at 10:03 AM on March 15, 2019
A survivor of the shooting at the Linwood mosque has revealed how his friend risked his life to tackle the gunman and wrestle away the weapon.
posted by clawsoon at 10:14 AM on March 15, 2019 [20 favorites]
posted by clawsoon at 10:14 AM on March 15, 2019 [20 favorites]
Ugh, the second last caller on Ontario Today (a radio call-in program on the CBC) this afternoon commented on how it was strange that a bunch of people with Muslim sounding names called in today to moan and complain, the topic being the attack in Christchurch, and then went on to directly say that this wouldn't have happened if the victims had better integrated into society. The host gave him the opportunity to either clarify or walk-back his comments but he kept on going.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 10:22 AM on March 15, 2019 [4 favorites]
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 10:22 AM on March 15, 2019 [4 favorites]
Andrew Scheer, Canada's Conservative leader and long time friend of the alt-right, couldn't find the human decency to use the words "Muslims" or "mosque," surprising approximately nobody (except the complicit media)
Just to add to this, the Quebec City mosque shooting in 2017 was carried out by Alexandre Bissonnette, who had been radicalized by a steady diet of white supremacist propaganda. He killed six people and injured another 19 while they were at prayer.
Bissonnette's name was among those that the Christchurch shooter had inscribed on his rifle magazines. A couple of weeks ago, Andrew Scheer addressed a xenophobic yellow vest rally on Parliament hill. He did so alongside a prominent Canadian neo-Nazi who, in 2017, took to the streets in Quebec City mere hours after the shootings to livestream broadcasts about how it was "a hoax":
Within hours of the shooting, Islamophobic propaganda outlet The Rebel bought the domain name quebecterror.com and deployed correspondent Faith Goldy to the scene.
As people have said above, it's important to make sure the dots are connected - over and over again - so people understand that these are global white supremacist propaganda and terrorist networks, whether loosely federated or well-organized, and so that the people who wish to disclaim responsibility when people act on their exhortations and propaganda cannot escape responsibility.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 10:27 AM on March 15, 2019 [41 favorites]
Just to add to this, the Quebec City mosque shooting in 2017 was carried out by Alexandre Bissonnette, who had been radicalized by a steady diet of white supremacist propaganda. He killed six people and injured another 19 while they were at prayer.
Bissonnette's name was among those that the Christchurch shooter had inscribed on his rifle magazines. A couple of weeks ago, Andrew Scheer addressed a xenophobic yellow vest rally on Parliament hill. He did so alongside a prominent Canadian neo-Nazi who, in 2017, took to the streets in Quebec City mere hours after the shootings to livestream broadcasts about how it was "a hoax":
Within hours of the shooting, Islamophobic propaganda outlet The Rebel bought the domain name quebecterror.com and deployed correspondent Faith Goldy to the scene.
As people have said above, it's important to make sure the dots are connected - over and over again - so people understand that these are global white supremacist propaganda and terrorist networks, whether loosely federated or well-organized, and so that the people who wish to disclaim responsibility when people act on their exhortations and propaganda cannot escape responsibility.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 10:27 AM on March 15, 2019 [41 favorites]
I've shared the idea of emailing a supportive message to a local mosque on Facebook and with my coworkers, and already like 6 people have said "that's a good idea, it hadn't occurred to me but I'm going to do that right now." Spread the word!
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:28 AM on March 15, 2019 [4 favorites]
posted by showbiz_liz at 10:28 AM on March 15, 2019 [4 favorites]
Okay uh don’t share the manifesto and don’t read it if you’re not Very Online. But if you’re the sort of person who watches Natalie Wynn’s videos about how fascists organize in Very Online spaces and thinks “finally someone is talking about this shit” rather than “holy shit I’ve never heard of this this is so weird,” you kind of have a responsibility to read it so that you can explain it to your less Very Online friends.
The media is going to drop the ball on this, and people whose only knowledge of fringe Internet culture comes from the media are going to need you to set them straight.
posted by Reclusive Novelist Thomas Pynchon at 10:28 AM on March 15, 2019 [23 favorites]
The media is going to drop the ball on this, and people whose only knowledge of fringe Internet culture comes from the media are going to need you to set them straight.
posted by Reclusive Novelist Thomas Pynchon at 10:28 AM on March 15, 2019 [23 favorites]
Barack Obama: Michelle and I send our condolences to the people of New Zealand. We grieve with you and the Muslim community. All of us must stand against hatred in all its forms.
That's what a president sounds like expressing sympathy and grief when tragedy strikes an ally. As opposed to this.
posted by Doktor Zed at 10:28 AM on March 15, 2019 [49 favorites]
That's what a president sounds like expressing sympathy and grief when tragedy strikes an ally. As opposed to this.
posted by Doktor Zed at 10:28 AM on March 15, 2019 [49 favorites]
The one thing I don't understand about white supremacist politicians (whether it be DJT, Andrew Scheer or Fraser Anning) is that they could make the most public display of support possible, name checking Muslims and even quoting from the Quran and they wouldn't alienate their white supremacist base because they've already locked up the white supremacist vote. Like FFS even Doug Ford managed to specifically mention Muslims.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 10:39 AM on March 15, 2019 [4 favorites]
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 10:39 AM on March 15, 2019 [4 favorites]
because they've already locked up the white supremacist vote.
I think that's part of the issue — this isn't solely about locking up these votes. This group of white supremacist politicians aren't being particularly strategic; they literally do not believe in the value of (non-white) human lives.
They don't see why their responses should be mitigated by any other considerations, they're just *telling it like it is*.
posted by bluemilker at 10:45 AM on March 15, 2019 [8 favorites]
I think that's part of the issue — this isn't solely about locking up these votes. This group of white supremacist politicians aren't being particularly strategic; they literally do not believe in the value of (non-white) human lives.
They don't see why their responses should be mitigated by any other considerations, they're just *telling it like it is*.
posted by bluemilker at 10:45 AM on March 15, 2019 [8 favorites]
they wouldn't alienate their white supremacist base because they've already locked up the white supremacist vote.
Trump (etc.) is his white supremacist base. He isn't courting "those people" for votes, he 100% believes that white people are better and are under attack. And he knows that his base will stick with him through Medicare cuts and higher taxes and everything else, but they will turn on him in a heartbeat if he rejects -- for even one single second -- that obvious, overt racism. Because he knows all of the various things that he will turn on people in a heartbeat for (for him, usually, it's being "disloyal" for even one single second).
posted by Etrigan at 10:45 AM on March 15, 2019 [9 favorites]
Trump (etc.) is his white supremacist base. He isn't courting "those people" for votes, he 100% believes that white people are better and are under attack. And he knows that his base will stick with him through Medicare cuts and higher taxes and everything else, but they will turn on him in a heartbeat if he rejects -- for even one single second -- that obvious, overt racism. Because he knows all of the various things that he will turn on people in a heartbeat for (for him, usually, it's being "disloyal" for even one single second).
posted by Etrigan at 10:45 AM on March 15, 2019 [9 favorites]
they’re not tweeting out support for white supremacy because it polls well or whatever. they’re tweeting support for white supremacy because they’re white supremacists, and want more people to be white supremacists.
posted by Reclusive Novelist Thomas Pynchon at 10:53 AM on March 15, 2019 [18 favorites]
posted by Reclusive Novelist Thomas Pynchon at 10:53 AM on March 15, 2019 [18 favorites]
Mod note: Folks, this absolutely needs to not become an American politics proxy thread. Rein it in. Thanks.
posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 10:57 AM on March 15, 2019 [34 favorites]
posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 10:57 AM on March 15, 2019 [34 favorites]
The New Zealand Massacre Was Made to Go Viral, Charlie Warzel on the murderer's careful social media campaign. Also The Eerie Absence Of Viral Fakes After The New Zealand Mosque Attacks which talks about because the social media campaign of the massacre was so well orchestrated, there was no room for fakes to take root.
posted by Nelson at 11:03 AM on March 15, 2019 [14 favorites]
posted by Nelson at 11:03 AM on March 15, 2019 [14 favorites]
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posted by lazaruslong at 11:29 AM on March 15, 2019
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posted by lazaruslong at 11:29 AM on March 15, 2019
Why Tech Didn't Stop the New Zealand Attack From Going Viral (Wired, ever the banner-carrier for The Power Of Technology To Fix People, but also including some information on what technology is being deployed, and by whom, to block known extremist and offensive content). It's interesting that the article notes that "Facebook and others have also invested in machine learning technology that has been trained to spot new troubling content, such as a beheading or a video with an ISIS flag" which made me wonder how many other hate symbols are identified but allowed, like a swastika or the Confederate flag. Or is the machine learning not (yet) targeted on "domestic terrorism" symbology?
Also, this article was written because they couldn't possibly write "How Tech Fostered This Hatred In The First Place."
posted by filthy light thief at 11:30 AM on March 15, 2019 [14 favorites]
Also, this article was written because they couldn't possibly write "How Tech Fostered This Hatred In The First Place."
posted by filthy light thief at 11:30 AM on March 15, 2019 [14 favorites]
Josh reads it so you don't have to.
posted by j_curiouser at 11:35 AM on March 15, 2019 [6 favorites]
posted by j_curiouser at 11:35 AM on March 15, 2019 [6 favorites]
Just horrifying. My heart breaks for the victims, their families, that community. For Muslims all over the world presented with just one more piece of evidence that there are people who hate them enough to invade their places of worship and obliterate them while they are peacefully at prayer.
.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 12:01 PM on March 15, 2019 [3 favorites]
.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 12:01 PM on March 15, 2019 [3 favorites]
made me wonder how many other hate symbols are identified but allowed, like a swastika or the Confederate flag. Or is the machine learning not (yet) targeted on "domestic terrorism" symbology?
I guarantee you that facebook and other tech giants have swastika detection running in Germany. Whether they deploy it elsewhere where it is not done under the threat of severe legal penalty is the question. Also if not why not?
posted by srboisvert at 12:37 PM on March 15, 2019 [16 favorites]
I guarantee you that facebook and other tech giants have swastika detection running in Germany. Whether they deploy it elsewhere where it is not done under the threat of severe legal penalty is the question. Also if not why not?
posted by srboisvert at 12:37 PM on March 15, 2019 [16 favorites]
I don't know much about Tom Watson but I endorse this message.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 12:44 PM on March 15, 2019 [11 favorites]
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 12:44 PM on March 15, 2019 [11 favorites]
He is/was a mefite iirc i_am_joe's_spleen
posted by infini at 12:56 PM on March 15, 2019 [5 favorites]
posted by infini at 12:56 PM on March 15, 2019 [5 favorites]
I took Fizz’s advice and stepped away. After a restless night, reading has begun. It’s Saturday morning now. I’ve been here just shy of 13 years in Wellington; came for a 6 month contract and never left. I love my life here. when I received the State Department email broadcast about Chch, it was incomprehensible to me. After getting home, more and more details appeared. All I have zooming thru my head are banal platitudes and echoes of what everyone else has said before this post. But this I know: Chch has a reputation for its active white supremicist community. We have racists and xenophobes so the next step has to be how do we talk about this, how do we fix/address this.
in addition to mourning for those who were killed, injured, witnessed ... gods, anyone who is affected by this, my heart weeps with you. But I’m also mourning a little for myself. I’ve lost a secret thing, something that I was not cognisant of till it died, and it is this: I found I believed that my chosen home country was a magical place, where violent extremism didn’t live. I thought I had no more corners of innocence left. I was wrong. And am just a little shattered by it’s discovery and sudden dissolution.
So. First step on this Saturday morning is a donation to the fund set up for the victims and families. Next, send email to the nearest mosque in Kilbirnie. After that.....
posted by lemon_icing at 12:57 PM on March 15, 2019 [29 favorites]
in addition to mourning for those who were killed, injured, witnessed ... gods, anyone who is affected by this, my heart weeps with you. But I’m also mourning a little for myself. I’ve lost a secret thing, something that I was not cognisant of till it died, and it is this: I found I believed that my chosen home country was a magical place, where violent extremism didn’t live. I thought I had no more corners of innocence left. I was wrong. And am just a little shattered by it’s discovery and sudden dissolution.
So. First step on this Saturday morning is a donation to the fund set up for the victims and families. Next, send email to the nearest mosque in Kilbirnie. After that.....
posted by lemon_icing at 12:57 PM on March 15, 2019 [29 favorites]
Givealittle (a crowdsourcing site in New Zealand to donate and fundraise for causes and charities) has page where people can donate. It has been set up by Victim Support and is as far as I can tell is the official place to donate. There may well be other places to donate of course. Givealittle is however under such heavy load at the moment that it isn't loading for me at least. This a great sign in one way as people clearly want to express grief and sympathy for our fellow New Zealanders so tragically murdered. I'll try the site a little later. Not sure if it takes donations from overseas but worth checking if you want to contribute.
posted by vac2003 at 12:59 PM on March 15, 2019 [6 favorites]
posted by vac2003 at 12:59 PM on March 15, 2019 [6 favorites]
Right now, I'm looking for any of our elected officials or many Democratic presidential candidates to use the words terror/terrorism or "white supremacy".
AOC was all over this from the start; she was one of the first non-NZers I saw tweeting about it. (Along with a couple of MeFites, shoutout to Divabat and Max Sparber for your words).
posted by Pink Frost at 1:44 PM on March 15, 2019 [2 favorites]
AOC was all over this from the start; she was one of the first non-NZers I saw tweeting about it. (Along with a couple of MeFites, shoutout to Divabat and Max Sparber for your words).
posted by Pink Frost at 1:44 PM on March 15, 2019 [2 favorites]
Ardern just said that Trump phoned her and asked what support the US could provide. She replied, "Provide sympathy and love for all Muslim communities".
posted by vac2003 at 1:47 PM on March 15, 2019 [59 favorites]
posted by vac2003 at 1:47 PM on March 15, 2019 [59 favorites]
I'm late in this thread because I spent yesterday in lockdown at work, my flatmate was in lockdown at the hospital. While I was in lockdown one of my co-workers was called by her daughter to pray because she had seen some of the shooting at her high school (Papanui). I haven't heard from all the muslims that I know in christchurch, but I'm not too worried because they're all pretty self acknowledged bad muslims and were most likely at work rather than Friday prayers.
Driving home after the end of the lockdown was pretty eerie for how polite the traffic was, I saw a car blocking a massive queue while it waited to get into the other lane and no one was tooting. That's so very much not christchurch traffic.
A bunch of detonators got stolen from the railway a couple of days ago, sounds like that's how they sorted out the IEDs. Rumour during the lockdown was seven shooters, I wouldn't be surprised if one or two more co-conspirators get picked u over the weekend.
I remember not so very long ago (five years?) the national front or one of Kyle Chapmans splinter groups announced they were doing training camps in the bush, paint balling etc. to prepare for the race war. I remember after the earthquake the National Front was "patrolling" in New Brighton and beat up some dark skinned teenagers. I remember the photos of the christchurch skin scene posing with their weapons. The South Island racist scene has been preparing to do something dumb and violent for years, I am in no way surprised that this happened in Christchurch. I am in no way surprised that an aussie was involved, the racist scenes in New Zealand and Australia have been mingled and cross pollinating for years.
I Remember Rob FUCKING Gilchrist, I remember how the police in the South Island have been very focused on the animal rights, environmental and leftist scenes for the last however many years. I remember the police charging a punk with assault for throwing a bagel at a skinhead. I remember activists fleeing to nz because the aussie police had put unofficial death sentences on them. I remember the Te Urewera raids and the racist sham they ended up being.
I'm so sad and so very fucking angry that this happened. We should have prevented this.
posted by fido~depravo at 1:50 PM on March 15, 2019 [58 favorites]
Driving home after the end of the lockdown was pretty eerie for how polite the traffic was, I saw a car blocking a massive queue while it waited to get into the other lane and no one was tooting. That's so very much not christchurch traffic.
A bunch of detonators got stolen from the railway a couple of days ago, sounds like that's how they sorted out the IEDs. Rumour during the lockdown was seven shooters, I wouldn't be surprised if one or two more co-conspirators get picked u over the weekend.
I remember not so very long ago (five years?) the national front or one of Kyle Chapmans splinter groups announced they were doing training camps in the bush, paint balling etc. to prepare for the race war. I remember after the earthquake the National Front was "patrolling" in New Brighton and beat up some dark skinned teenagers. I remember the photos of the christchurch skin scene posing with their weapons. The South Island racist scene has been preparing to do something dumb and violent for years, I am in no way surprised that this happened in Christchurch. I am in no way surprised that an aussie was involved, the racist scenes in New Zealand and Australia have been mingled and cross pollinating for years.
I Remember Rob FUCKING Gilchrist, I remember how the police in the South Island have been very focused on the animal rights, environmental and leftist scenes for the last however many years. I remember the police charging a punk with assault for throwing a bagel at a skinhead. I remember activists fleeing to nz because the aussie police had put unofficial death sentences on them. I remember the Te Urewera raids and the racist sham they ended up being.
I'm so sad and so very fucking angry that this happened. We should have prevented this.
posted by fido~depravo at 1:50 PM on March 15, 2019 [58 favorites]
If there are any other Melburnians/Victorians reading who want to express sympathy and support for the Muslim community, it turns out tomorrow is Victorian Mosque Open Day with many mosques opening their doors to share their community and culture with everyone.
posted by Athanassiel at 2:20 PM on March 15, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by Athanassiel at 2:20 PM on March 15, 2019 [2 favorites]
.
posted by So You're Saying These Are Pants? at 2:56 PM on March 15, 2019
posted by So You're Saying These Are Pants? at 2:56 PM on March 15, 2019
He is/was a mefite iirc i_am_joe's_spleen
WHAT
ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME
posted by divabat at 3:03 PM on March 15, 2019 [3 favorites]
WHAT
ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME
posted by divabat at 3:03 PM on March 15, 2019 [3 favorites]
He is baggymp and yes this intersection is a constant delight to me.
posted by cortex at 3:05 PM on March 15, 2019 [18 favorites]
posted by cortex at 3:05 PM on March 15, 2019 [18 favorites]
Howard J. Fezell, Former NRA Director, Exposed As Member of Identity Evropa
posted by Atom Eyes at 3:20 PM on March 15, 2019 [25 favorites]
posted by Atom Eyes at 3:20 PM on March 15, 2019 [25 favorites]
OHHHHHH
Sorry, i missed a comment and thought you meant the SHOOTER was a Mefite and panicked. So so sorry.
posted by divabat at 3:24 PM on March 15, 2019 [4 favorites]
Sorry, i missed a comment and thought you meant the SHOOTER was a Mefite and panicked. So so sorry.
posted by divabat at 3:24 PM on March 15, 2019 [4 favorites]
WTAF? There seems to be an insulation company in Christchurch with the black sun symbol as a logo, and their insulation rate "$14.88 per square metre" prominently emblazoned on their vans.
Twitter thread with screenshots and owner claiming it's a pagan new year thing to teach children to be careful of fire: @oriwa_.
There's also been an incident at a London mosque (thankfully there don't seem to have been any serious injuries, although guessing there was probably some serious psychological trauma).
London mosque attack: Men assault Muslim worshipper with 'batten and hammer' after shouting Islamophobic abuse [independent. CW there is some autoplaying video of the attackers being chased from the scene.]
posted by Buntix at 3:31 PM on March 15, 2019 [5 favorites]
Twitter thread with screenshots and owner claiming it's a pagan new year thing to teach children to be careful of fire: @oriwa_.
There's also been an incident at a London mosque (thankfully there don't seem to have been any serious injuries, although guessing there was probably some serious psychological trauma).
London mosque attack: Men assault Muslim worshipper with 'batten and hammer' after shouting Islamophobic abuse [independent. CW there is some autoplaying video of the attackers being chased from the scene.]
posted by Buntix at 3:31 PM on March 15, 2019 [5 favorites]
I posted about how angry this made me on Facebook and got an image of a pug dog with "triggered" written on it from a kid who used to bully me in high school but now considers me a friend in rerurn.
I don't know what to do here. This is the reality I live in but I would like to live almost anywhere else.
posted by East14thTaco at 3:46 PM on March 15, 2019 [14 favorites]
I don't know what to do here. This is the reality I live in but I would like to live almost anywhere else.
posted by East14thTaco at 3:46 PM on March 15, 2019 [14 favorites]
Twitter thread with screenshots and owner claiming it's a pagan new year thing to teach children to be careful of fire:
No? It says: "So I messaged this company about being more sensitive after what's happened & they h2g [honest to God] said they stand with their white brother & celebrate his actions."
Beneficial Installation Installs
[address and contact info]
So... this is a Christchurch business publicly siding with terrorists?
posted by reductiondesign at 3:48 PM on March 15, 2019 [8 favorites]
No? It says: "So I messaged this company about being more sensitive after what's happened & they h2g [honest to God] said they stand with their white brother & celebrate his actions."
Beneficial Installation Installs
[address and contact info]
So... this is a Christchurch business publicly siding with terrorists?
posted by reductiondesign at 3:48 PM on March 15, 2019 [8 favorites]
There are also people on Twitter discussing how 20 years ago, Christchurch was "skinhead central," is this accurate?
posted by reductiondesign at 3:50 PM on March 15, 2019
posted by reductiondesign at 3:50 PM on March 15, 2019
Well this finally got r/watchpeopledie banned, as well as some other subreddits
posted by thelonius at 4:11 PM on March 15, 2019 [16 favorites]
posted by thelonius at 4:11 PM on March 15, 2019 [16 favorites]
I posted about how angry this made me on Facebook and got an image of a pug dog with "triggered" written on it from a kid who used to bully me in high school but now considers me a friend in rerurn.
You could unfriend the man who sounds like a jerk, which will fix nothing but remove the problem from your life. Or, if you're feeling strong enough and you want b that burden, you could confront him about it. Me, I would mute or unfriend.
posted by Going To Maine at 4:13 PM on March 15, 2019 [8 favorites]
You could unfriend the man who sounds like a jerk, which will fix nothing but remove the problem from your life. Or, if you're feeling strong enough and you want b that burden, you could confront him about it. Me, I would mute or unfriend.
posted by Going To Maine at 4:13 PM on March 15, 2019 [8 favorites]
> WTAF? There seems to be an insulation company in Christchurch with the black sun symbol as a logo, and their insulation rate "$14.88 per square metre" prominently emblazoned on their vans.
There's been quite a bit of that sort of shit going on in Aus & NZ the last few years. c.f. the "Nazi Sparky", who's been treated as a bit of a meme himself up till now.
I just took a quick look into the one of the reactionary old sadfuck / borderline neo-Nazi tech forums here in Aus. I shouldn't have…
posted by Pinback at 4:15 PM on March 15, 2019 [4 favorites]
There's been quite a bit of that sort of shit going on in Aus & NZ the last few years. c.f. the "Nazi Sparky", who's been treated as a bit of a meme himself up till now.
I just took a quick look into the one of the reactionary old sadfuck / borderline neo-Nazi tech forums here in Aus. I shouldn't have…
posted by Pinback at 4:15 PM on March 15, 2019 [4 favorites]
Howard J. Fezell, Former NRA Director, Exposed As Member of Identity Evropa
posted by Atom Eyes at 3:20 PM on March 15 [11 favorites +] [!]
Can someone provide some context for this? What's Evropa? and is the website that's linked to- panic in the discord- legit?
posted by bluesky43 at 4:15 PM on March 15, 2019
posted by Atom Eyes at 3:20 PM on March 15 [11 favorites +] [!]
Can someone provide some context for this? What's Evropa? and is the website that's linked to- panic in the discord- legit?
posted by bluesky43 at 4:15 PM on March 15, 2019
Identity Evropa is/was a white nationalist group that just disbanded/rebranded to "American Identity Movement," either because Unicorn Riot dumped their chat logs or because their founder's legal situation put them at risk.
I don't know about Panic at the Discord, but they're going through the Discord logs leaked publicly by Unicorn Riot, which has been a legitimate source of similar leaks in the past.
posted by contraption at 4:23 PM on March 15, 2019 [12 favorites]
I don't know about Panic at the Discord, but they're going through the Discord logs leaked publicly by Unicorn Riot, which has been a legitimate source of similar leaks in the past.
posted by contraption at 4:23 PM on March 15, 2019 [12 favorites]
This is the tweet where makes the claim about it being a traditional solstice thing.
It does illustrate clearly that this isn't just a lone-wolf thing. There seems to be a lot of crossover with that symbol and The Great Replacement conspiracy theory [wikipedia], for instance the far right Azov movement in Ukraine (see @kooleksiy and various recent tweets from @GorseFires).
(Stuchbery's tweet has screenshots of tweets/posts from Lauren Southern, Katie Hopkins, Paul Joseph Watson, and David Vance.)
What's Evropa?
They recently had all their Discord chat logs hacked and made public by the Unicorn Riot antifa group. They then dissolved and renamed the group. I've seen a few people posting about the NRA director being outed that are generally reliable, and it doesn't really seem like an extraordinary claim. That said he was apparently ousted when Wayne LaPierre took over the helm in 1991, so the NRA will probably just 'only a coffee-boy' him.
posted by Buntix at 4:24 PM on March 15, 2019 [8 favorites]
It does illustrate clearly that this isn't just a lone-wolf thing. There seems to be a lot of crossover with that symbol and The Great Replacement conspiracy theory [wikipedia], for instance the far right Azov movement in Ukraine (see @kooleksiy and various recent tweets from @GorseFires).
The conspiracy theory commonly apportions blame to a global and liberal elite,[6] such as Brussels and the European Union, which is portrayed as directing a planned and deliberate plot or scheme to carry out the replacement of European peoples.@MikeStuchbery_: FYI, the 'Great Replacement' - cited by the Christchurch terrorist - isn't some sort of niche theory relegated to 8chan & other image boards. It's a theory peddled by verified users on this site.
(Stuchbery's tweet has screenshots of tweets/posts from Lauren Southern, Katie Hopkins, Paul Joseph Watson, and David Vance.)
What's Evropa?
Identity Evropa is at the forefront of the racist "alt-right's" effort to recruit white, college-aged men and transform them into the fashionable new face of white nationalism. Rather than denigrating people of color, the campus-based organization focuses on raising white racial consciousness, building community based on shared racial identity and intellectualizing white supremacist ideology.(description from the SPLC)
They recently had all their Discord chat logs hacked and made public by the Unicorn Riot antifa group. They then dissolved and renamed the group. I've seen a few people posting about the NRA director being outed that are generally reliable, and it doesn't really seem like an extraordinary claim. That said he was apparently ousted when Wayne LaPierre took over the helm in 1991, so the NRA will probably just 'only a coffee-boy' him.
posted by Buntix at 4:24 PM on March 15, 2019 [8 favorites]
There are also people on Twitter discussing how 20 years ago, Christchurch was "skinhead central," is this accurate?
It's had a reputation for having a racist element for at least 20 years, for sure. Certainly not the only place in NZ with that crowd, but it's known for it, yeah.
As a general comment, and I think people here are being good about this, I'm going to ask for people to be mindful about (a) sharing stuff and (b) using this as their hobby horse. My Twitter is a shitstorm of people quoting horrible things other people have said, and I probably just got banned from another board for screaming at a British leftist who was using it as a chance to go deep into why liberals are really the real enemy.
posted by Pink Frost at 4:25 PM on March 15, 2019 [9 favorites]
It's had a reputation for having a racist element for at least 20 years, for sure. Certainly not the only place in NZ with that crowd, but it's known for it, yeah.
As a general comment, and I think people here are being good about this, I'm going to ask for people to be mindful about (a) sharing stuff and (b) using this as their hobby horse. My Twitter is a shitstorm of people quoting horrible things other people have said, and I probably just got banned from another board for screaming at a British leftist who was using it as a chance to go deep into why liberals are really the real enemy.
posted by Pink Frost at 4:25 PM on March 15, 2019 [9 favorites]
You could unfriend the man who sounds like a jerk, which will fix nothing but remove the problem from your life. Or, if you're feeling strong enough and you want b that burden, you could confront him about it. Me, I would mute or unfriend.
That's just it. The dude is, by any objective measure, a moron. But his heart is in the right place I think and we've actually had good conversations in the past. He does not post alt-right memes and calls out racism when it happens in the sports spheres he's aware of.
Do a write this guy off? Just because he's not as up on things as me?
Part of me wants to say yes and that would be the easy thing to do. But I think doing the hard thing is appropriate here and that's giving him the benefit of the doubt while saying "that's a fucked up thing you did." We're in our 30s and we can talk to each other.
posted by East14thTaco at 4:26 PM on March 15, 2019 [4 favorites]
That's just it. The dude is, by any objective measure, a moron. But his heart is in the right place I think and we've actually had good conversations in the past. He does not post alt-right memes and calls out racism when it happens in the sports spheres he's aware of.
Do a write this guy off? Just because he's not as up on things as me?
Part of me wants to say yes and that would be the easy thing to do. But I think doing the hard thing is appropriate here and that's giving him the benefit of the doubt while saying "that's a fucked up thing you did." We're in our 30s and we can talk to each other.
posted by East14thTaco at 4:26 PM on March 15, 2019 [4 favorites]
There are also people on Twitter discussing how 20 years ago, Christchurch was "skinhead central," is this accurate?
Yes it's pretty accurate. Christchurch has historic been one of the whitest cities in NZ and there's a lot of the racist bullshit and eventually, violence, that seems typical of cities where white people don't tend to personally know anyone who isn't white. It also has a lot of gangs.
posted by lollusc at 5:18 PM on March 15, 2019 [2 favorites]
Yes it's pretty accurate. Christchurch has historic been one of the whitest cities in NZ and there's a lot of the racist bullshit and eventually, violence, that seems typical of cities where white people don't tend to personally know anyone who isn't white. It also has a lot of gangs.
posted by lollusc at 5:18 PM on March 15, 2019 [2 favorites]
I just heard that a friend's friend reported the gunman to an arms officer for his behaviour at a rifle club in 2017. No one can say that we could not have anticipated that guy would do something like this.
posted by lollusc at 6:15 PM on March 15, 2019 [13 favorites]
posted by lollusc at 6:15 PM on March 15, 2019 [13 favorites]
I took this photo in Merivale, Chch a few years back. Check out swastika dude there. https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8-S9r6avLQSYkk0dndTZ0E5cEU/view?usp=sharing
posted by xiw at 6:16 PM on March 15, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by xiw at 6:16 PM on March 15, 2019 [2 favorites]
One interesting thing last night: on satellite last night the two main local TV networks were covering the issue non-stop, so was the BBC, Al Jazeera, and CNN, but FOX had some talking heads blabbing on a bout some other nonsense as if nothing had happened
As I mentioned above, the local satellite service took our Aussie news channel (SkyNews) off the air because they were actually playing the terrorists video propaganda (snuff film), I'm hoping they never bring them back
posted by mbo at 6:17 PM on March 15, 2019 [7 favorites]
As I mentioned above, the local satellite service took our Aussie news channel (SkyNews) off the air because they were actually playing the terrorists video propaganda (snuff film), I'm hoping they never bring them back
posted by mbo at 6:17 PM on March 15, 2019 [7 favorites]
This is Waseem Daraghmeh, a Muslim barber who immigrated from Jordan 5 years ago for a better life in New Zealand. He and one of his daughters were shot multiple times :(
posted by growabrain at 6:31 PM on March 15, 2019 [5 favorites]
posted by growabrain at 6:31 PM on March 15, 2019 [5 favorites]
The population of New Zealand is so small! This would be brutal to deal with anywhere but it must be triply so in NZ. I hope you all are ok.
I've seen people pointing out, and the numbers seem right to me, that this is proportional to 9/11, population-wise.
Also re: Identity Evropa, I've seen stickers saying "Identity Australia: Reject Your Replacement" across parts of Sydney. Never been able to figure out what group is responsible though.
posted by AnhydrousLove at 6:32 PM on March 15, 2019 [5 favorites]
I've seen people pointing out, and the numbers seem right to me, that this is proportional to 9/11, population-wise.
Also re: Identity Evropa, I've seen stickers saying "Identity Australia: Reject Your Replacement" across parts of Sydney. Never been able to figure out what group is responsible though.
posted by AnhydrousLove at 6:32 PM on March 15, 2019 [5 favorites]
The Longer History of the Christchurch Attacks: For over a century, the United States has played a role in inspiring and enabling white supremacy in Australia and New Zealand.
White Nationalism Is an International Threat: The Christchurch attacks point to a disturbing web reaching from the United States, to the United Kingdom, to Greece, and beyond.
"This is not who we are as a country" is always such a strange message because whether it's the U.S., Australia, or New Zealand, it quite literally isn't true.
posted by Ouverture at 6:52 PM on March 15, 2019 [23 favorites]
White Nationalism Is an International Threat: The Christchurch attacks point to a disturbing web reaching from the United States, to the United Kingdom, to Greece, and beyond.
"This is not who we are as a country" is always such a strange message because whether it's the U.S., Australia, or New Zealand, it quite literally isn't true.
posted by Ouverture at 6:52 PM on March 15, 2019 [23 favorites]
Just to give people in the US some perspective: compared to our population in NZ this attack was worse than the 911 twin towers attack, and also done by extremists from a friendly nation
posted by mbo at 6:54 PM on March 15, 2019 [14 favorites]
posted by mbo at 6:54 PM on March 15, 2019 [14 favorites]
(we're not following G W Bush and sending troops into Australia to root out the white supremacists, just yet)
posted by mbo at 7:00 PM on March 15, 2019 [4 favorites]
posted by mbo at 7:00 PM on March 15, 2019 [4 favorites]
A few months ago I recorded a video of myself playing along with a song for one of my students, I am a guitar tutor. Youtube automatically rejected the post for copyright violations. I'm guessing other platforms have the same technology. Yet this is still being reposted.
I guess copyright holders have better lawyers than victims of hate.
posted by adept256 at 7:05 PM on March 15, 2019 [9 favorites]
I guess copyright holders have better lawyers than victims of hate.
posted by adept256 at 7:05 PM on March 15, 2019 [9 favorites]
a British leftist who was using it as a chance to go deep into why liberals are really the real enemy.
and
"This is not who we are as a country" is always such a strange message because whether it's the U.S., Australia, or New Zealand, it quite literally isn't true.
I often wonder about the intersection of these two ideas. I do think social fascism is a dangerous theory. We can see the tragic consequences that followed.
Yet I think we have to find a middle ground, where we talk about how liberalism intentionally ignores the inherently corrupt nature of our states from their origins.
We're talking about New Zealand, and even when we talk about Aotearoa instead that's a label that was expanded in response to colonisation. White terror is how our countries came about and how their existence is still justified and maintained today, and any response that fails to include that is part of the problem.
posted by AnhydrousLove at 7:10 PM on March 15, 2019 [1 favorite]
and
"This is not who we are as a country" is always such a strange message because whether it's the U.S., Australia, or New Zealand, it quite literally isn't true.
I often wonder about the intersection of these two ideas. I do think social fascism is a dangerous theory. We can see the tragic consequences that followed.
Yet I think we have to find a middle ground, where we talk about how liberalism intentionally ignores the inherently corrupt nature of our states from their origins.
We're talking about New Zealand, and even when we talk about Aotearoa instead that's a label that was expanded in response to colonisation. White terror is how our countries came about and how their existence is still justified and maintained today, and any response that fails to include that is part of the problem.
posted by AnhydrousLove at 7:10 PM on March 15, 2019 [1 favorite]
"This is not who we are as a country" is always such a strange message because whether it's the U.S., Australia, or New Zealand, it quite literally isn't true.
I used to grow about this, a great deal, but it's an aspirational move, an attempt to set a goal for a nation and a people to strive for. Telling people that, yes, the bad people are you, creates plenty of space for citizens to join the bad people. (Or for the attacked to join other bad people; consider how ISIS and white nationalists both desire clear lines of in group and out group to trigger war.) Leave the nuance to the historians; the leaders should be clear about which side the people should be on.
posted by Going To Maine at 7:19 PM on March 15, 2019 [7 favorites]
I used to grow about this, a great deal, but it's an aspirational move, an attempt to set a goal for a nation and a people to strive for. Telling people that, yes, the bad people are you, creates plenty of space for citizens to join the bad people. (Or for the attacked to join other bad people; consider how ISIS and white nationalists both desire clear lines of in group and out group to trigger war.) Leave the nuance to the historians; the leaders should be clear about which side the people should be on.
posted by Going To Maine at 7:19 PM on March 15, 2019 [7 favorites]
I believe in that aspiration. I have literal brown skin in that game. But it has to be honest or otherwise it just becomes just another empty platitude, as meaningful as thoughts and prayers.
posted by Ouverture at 7:29 PM on March 15, 2019 [11 favorites]
posted by Ouverture at 7:29 PM on March 15, 2019 [11 favorites]
The govt just announced we're banning all semi-automatics - hooray!
posted by mbo at 7:31 PM on March 15, 2019 [37 favorites]
posted by mbo at 7:31 PM on March 15, 2019 [37 favorites]
It'll be profoundly telling if Australia lets Milo enter the country.
posted by aramaic at 9:48 PM on March 15, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by aramaic at 9:48 PM on March 15, 2019 [1 favorite]
Chances are they will - the immigration minister has already over-ruled the original decision of his department and the Federal Police to deny him a visa, and & granted him one for his upcoming visit.
It's what passes as Strong Government™ with the Liberals…
posted by Pinback at 10:01 PM on March 15, 2019 [4 favorites]
It's what passes as Strong Government™ with the Liberals…
posted by Pinback at 10:01 PM on March 15, 2019 [4 favorites]
(Aaaand … my partner just tells me she's seen a report the Government's pulled Milo's visa again. Actual spine seems to have won the day.)
posted by Pinback at 10:05 PM on March 15, 2019 [6 favorites]
posted by Pinback at 10:05 PM on March 15, 2019 [6 favorites]
In additional Senator 19-Nazi-Votes Anning news, some deadset legend [Facebook link] cracked his egg-shaped-head with an egg-shaped egg at the bastard's "African Gangs Are Coming For Your FREEDUMB" event in Moorabin, Melbourne, Victoria today.
posted by prismatic7 at 10:11 PM on March 15, 2019 [22 favorites]
posted by prismatic7 at 10:11 PM on March 15, 2019 [22 favorites]
On the racism spreading from the US via the internet topic, yeah, there's an acquaintance I tend to avoid because it usually takes him about half an hour in any conversation to spout some weird US-style racism that he has clearly found online. Like, obviously he also has his own homegrown racism or this stuff would not appeal, but... yeah. It gets all over everything.
posted by inexorably_forward at 12:11 AM on March 16, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by inexorably_forward at 12:11 AM on March 16, 2019 [1 favorite]
Christchurch is NZ's 2nd largest and least diverse major city. It has a large white working class and a lot of deprivation and the main men's prison in the South Island so people kind of stick around after they're released. It is where a certain kind of racism manifests most and there are good reasons: less immigration that in the North Island (places with lots of immigrants are more tolerant) and a lot of hard done by white people who want to blame someone. It's complicated, as always: Christchurch is also a bastion of left and progressive people and activism. You can find neo-nazis and racist skins all over the country and just last year some student at the University of Auckland was trying to set up a European pride group... but yeah, Christchurch. That's where you worry most about feral fuckers attacking you on the street. For the avoidance of doubt, I'm a Jew and they hate me too and the only time I've met a holocaust denier in the flesh (and made him run away) was in Christchurch. Saw and felt more racist incidents in five years there than anywhere else in NZ, and that include three years living next door to an Outcasts prospect in Frankton.
"This isn't who we are" has to be understood, charitably, as a normative claim about how we should be, not a factual claim about how we are. Inasmuch as it resonates with some, I don't mind it. It's good if people buy into it as an aspiration. It is a propaganda claim about values and I support that, even as I know it isn't true. In saying that, the last act of violence on this scale, before I was born, was the massacre of escaping internees at Featherston, and I am also the descendant of white settlers who overran the indigenous people and took their land with force because they could.
Friend of mine dropped off flowers at the mosque in Kilbirne (wellington) this morning. Sea of flowers, lovely. Armed police standing guard: surreal. You foreigners won't know this, but our police are unarmed on the street, they only have guns in a locked box in their cars, and if there is an incident with armed offenders, a special Armed Offenders Squad are called. It is deeply shocking to see our police openly carrying arms because they need to. It's like a weird wormhole opened up and now we're in another, different country, uncannily like the one we were in earlier, but alien and disturbing.
I drove home from an event today and passed the new graffito I tweeted earlier: Chch murderers not gonna f**k our country up. I sincerely hope so.
Apologies for the discursiveness. I've been drinking, as so many of us have. It's 50-50 wanting to burst into tears or go break some heads.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 1:03 AM on March 16, 2019 [54 favorites]
"This isn't who we are" has to be understood, charitably, as a normative claim about how we should be, not a factual claim about how we are. Inasmuch as it resonates with some, I don't mind it. It's good if people buy into it as an aspiration. It is a propaganda claim about values and I support that, even as I know it isn't true. In saying that, the last act of violence on this scale, before I was born, was the massacre of escaping internees at Featherston, and I am also the descendant of white settlers who overran the indigenous people and took their land with force because they could.
Friend of mine dropped off flowers at the mosque in Kilbirne (wellington) this morning. Sea of flowers, lovely. Armed police standing guard: surreal. You foreigners won't know this, but our police are unarmed on the street, they only have guns in a locked box in their cars, and if there is an incident with armed offenders, a special Armed Offenders Squad are called. It is deeply shocking to see our police openly carrying arms because they need to. It's like a weird wormhole opened up and now we're in another, different country, uncannily like the one we were in earlier, but alien and disturbing.
I drove home from an event today and passed the new graffito I tweeted earlier: Chch murderers not gonna f**k our country up. I sincerely hope so.
Apologies for the discursiveness. I've been drinking, as so many of us have. It's 50-50 wanting to burst into tears or go break some heads.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 1:03 AM on March 16, 2019 [54 favorites]
Oh yeah, apropos this "it's not us" stuff and Christchurch: they live among us.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 1:04 AM on March 16, 2019 [3 favorites]
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 1:04 AM on March 16, 2019 [3 favorites]
Also, I can't resist saying this. Mr Fuckstick is going to die in solitary. We have no death penalty, and he will never be safe in prison. Good.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 1:14 AM on March 16, 2019 [5 favorites]
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 1:14 AM on March 16, 2019 [5 favorites]
"I wish I could have done more".
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 1:19 AM on March 16, 2019 [13 favorites]
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 1:19 AM on March 16, 2019 [13 favorites]
The victims. They have names and stories.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 1:37 AM on March 16, 2019 [24 favorites]
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 1:37 AM on March 16, 2019 [24 favorites]
(we're not following G W Bush and sending troops into Australia to root out the white supremacists, just yet)
If I thought troops would fix this, I'd invite the Kiwis over immediately. Feeling a secondhand guilt about this - I've tried to speak up about anti-Muslim sentiment in my family and on Facebook, but could I have done more? I've reported then blocked a lot of pages like that on FB but now I don't know if anyone in my circle is still promoting it.
posted by harriet vane at 2:07 AM on March 16, 2019 [1 favorite]
If I thought troops would fix this, I'd invite the Kiwis over immediately. Feeling a secondhand guilt about this - I've tried to speak up about anti-Muslim sentiment in my family and on Facebook, but could I have done more? I've reported then blocked a lot of pages like that on FB but now I don't know if anyone in my circle is still promoting it.
posted by harriet vane at 2:07 AM on March 16, 2019 [1 favorite]
The conditions for this tragedy and for the other white supremacists terrorism incidents are at least partly created by large amounts of money being spent to promote racism see e.g. The Islamophobia Industry - Pluto Press , Islamophobia Inc. - Al Jazeera and Islamophobia Network (US focus)
Breivik and several of the others who followed in his wake were demonstrably influenced by the material put out by such groups.
So while social media certainly does aid the spread of such material, a number of right-wing trusts and similar organisations are paying for it to be created and disseminated in the first place. One only has to look at the current situation in the UK, where the Prime Minister talks about creating a 'hostile environment' to see that this stuff has become completely mainstream, which I suggest only happens where big money is being spent to make it so.
While these awful massacres may not be the explicit aim of such spending, they're an entirely predictable result.
posted by Caractacus at 2:09 AM on March 16, 2019 [8 favorites]
Breivik and several of the others who followed in his wake were demonstrably influenced by the material put out by such groups.
So while social media certainly does aid the spread of such material, a number of right-wing trusts and similar organisations are paying for it to be created and disseminated in the first place. One only has to look at the current situation in the UK, where the Prime Minister talks about creating a 'hostile environment' to see that this stuff has become completely mainstream, which I suggest only happens where big money is being spent to make it so.
While these awful massacres may not be the explicit aim of such spending, they're an entirely predictable result.
posted by Caractacus at 2:09 AM on March 16, 2019 [8 favorites]
“Automating Hate: Documenting the anatomy of an automated propaganda machine”
From the One People's Project in the US, an analysis published a couple of years ago of an operation called AgendaOfEvil.com which promotes and cross-propagates anti-Islam propaganda and fake news through a network of social media accounts through “computational propaganda” software automation.
posted by XMLicious at 2:46 AM on March 16, 2019 [8 favorites]
From the One People's Project in the US, an analysis published a couple of years ago of an operation called AgendaOfEvil.com which promotes and cross-propagates anti-Islam propaganda and fake news through a network of social media accounts through “computational propaganda” software automation.
posted by XMLicious at 2:46 AM on March 16, 2019 [8 favorites]
As I mentioned above gun licensing here is all about licensing a person - and the cops do focus on the possibility of domestic violence and mental instability (of everyone in the house)
posted by mbo at 3:29 AM on March 16, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by mbo at 3:29 AM on March 16, 2019 [2 favorites]
the Unicorn Riot antifa group
Though they are pretty sympathetic to antifa groups, more accurately, Unicorn Riot is a journalism collective.
posted by eviemath at 3:58 AM on March 16, 2019 [11 favorites]
Though they are pretty sympathetic to antifa groups, more accurately, Unicorn Riot is a journalism collective.
posted by eviemath at 3:58 AM on March 16, 2019 [11 favorites]
A statement by Republican congressperson Louie Gohmert, one of the 22 representatives who voted against the recent anti-hate resolution:
posted by Joe in Australia at 5:25 AM on March 16, 2019 [11 favorites]
@replouiegohmertIt's late and I find myself incapable of properly expressing the depth of my feeling about this, but tl;dr; Nazi McNaziface.
"The shootings at the New Zealand mosques are egregiously reprehensible. There are courts, dispute resolutions, and legislatures to resolve controversies – there is no place for cold blooded murders ..." Read my full statement, here:
posted by Joe in Australia at 5:25 AM on March 16, 2019 [11 favorites]
In that case, I feel justified in another round of...schadenAnning? Fraserfreud? [NSFW due to unvarnished Melburnian colloquialisms.]
posted by prismatic7 at 5:36 AM on March 16, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by prismatic7 at 5:36 AM on March 16, 2019 [2 favorites]
I’ve been tearing up just thinking about NZ and wishing I could be home there now. The “I wish I could have done more” video Joe linked above is almost every person I know in NZ (and Australia) distilled and really hit me. In the People Of New Zealand cartoon series she’d be Helpful Beryl.
The only thing I can add is that what I love about NZ and Australia is that even in the darkest of times there is such a raw underlying humor in the people. Like that the kid who egged Australian Senator Fraser after his horrific comments, now has a GoFundMe, to pay his legal fees.....and buy more eggs. It’s already more than doubled it’s target. On ya, mate.
posted by inflatablekiwi at 7:29 AM on March 16, 2019 [12 favorites]
The only thing I can add is that what I love about NZ and Australia is that even in the darkest of times there is such a raw underlying humor in the people. Like that the kid who egged Australian Senator Fraser after his horrific comments, now has a GoFundMe, to pay his legal fees.....and buy more eggs. It’s already more than doubled it’s target. On ya, mate.
posted by inflatablekiwi at 7:29 AM on March 16, 2019 [12 favorites]
What began as commodifying dissent has been transformed into crowdfunding dissent.
posted by infini at 8:20 AM on March 16, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by infini at 8:20 AM on March 16, 2019 [1 favorite]
egg target confronted at airport
warning: australian vocabulary
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:38 AM on March 16, 2019 [19 favorites]
warning: australian vocabulary
posted by Rust Moranis at 8:38 AM on March 16, 2019 [19 favorites]
Abdul Aziz: The man who saved lives by running at the Christchurch gunman
posted by valetta at 8:54 AM on March 16, 2019 [23 favorites]
posted by valetta at 8:54 AM on March 16, 2019 [23 favorites]
^^^^^ This clip above by Rust Moranis needs to go very viral ^^^^^
posted by growabrain at 9:00 AM on March 16, 2019 [3 favorites]
posted by growabrain at 9:00 AM on March 16, 2019 [3 favorites]
Amazing seeing Anning’s chickenshit followers kick a 17-year-old while he’s held down. Good for that kid. I hope I can do something similar to our right wing lunatics over here.
posted by gucci mane at 12:39 PM on March 16, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by gucci mane at 12:39 PM on March 16, 2019 [2 favorites]
What's the clip? Twitter suspended the account linked by Rust Moranis.
posted by Rev. Syung Myung Me at 1:06 PM on March 16, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by Rev. Syung Myung Me at 1:06 PM on March 16, 2019 [1 favorite]
This is the clip of him getting egged and then him and his followers beating on a teenager.
This is a man who called for Muslim immigration to been suspended in Australia and proclaimed that it was part of his “final solution” (his literal words in front of parliament).
posted by gucci mane at 1:32 PM on March 16, 2019 [8 favorites]
This is a man who called for Muslim immigration to been suspended in Australia and proclaimed that it was part of his “final solution” (his literal words in front of parliament).
posted by gucci mane at 1:32 PM on March 16, 2019 [8 favorites]
Oh so twitter suspends the good accounts.
That's a twist.
(If Jack Dorsey isn't alt-right(ie a nazi), I'll eat a boot)
posted by Yowser at 2:12 PM on March 16, 2019 [9 favorites]
That's a twist.
(If Jack Dorsey isn't alt-right(ie a nazi), I'll eat a boot)
posted by Yowser at 2:12 PM on March 16, 2019 [9 favorites]
No worries, Will's video message has been saved. I don't know if this was all he said, though, since his account's been shut down. I wouldn't have been nearly so calm as to allow this to happen, but knowing me (and being black), my trying to beat 5 people off me at once would get me killed.
EDIT to add: No POC could egg a man like that, with the followers he has, and live, could they?
posted by droplet at 2:28 PM on March 16, 2019 [4 favorites]
EDIT to add: No POC could egg a man like that, with the followers he has, and live, could they?
posted by droplet at 2:28 PM on March 16, 2019 [4 favorites]
Oh fuck egg boy
Not like him personally, but I was at a massive PoC & Muslim-led anti-Islamophobia rally the same time as this and coverage of the rally has been ABSOLUTELY OVERSHADOWED by a white boy and his egg. I've been hiding all the Egg Boy memes from my feeds because I find them so infuriating. Especially given how meme-y the shooter was.
A friend mentioned Egg Boy being "the Green Book of this shooting" and URGH so true. Especially after people are calling for him to be recognised as Australian of the Year and saying "I stand with Egg Boy" and what not. GO STAND WITH THE MUSLIMS YOU DINGBAT
posted by divabat at 2:29 PM on March 16, 2019 [35 favorites]
Not like him personally, but I was at a massive PoC & Muslim-led anti-Islamophobia rally the same time as this and coverage of the rally has been ABSOLUTELY OVERSHADOWED by a white boy and his egg. I've been hiding all the Egg Boy memes from my feeds because I find them so infuriating. Especially given how meme-y the shooter was.
A friend mentioned Egg Boy being "the Green Book of this shooting" and URGH so true. Especially after people are calling for him to be recognised as Australian of the Year and saying "I stand with Egg Boy" and what not. GO STAND WITH THE MUSLIMS YOU DINGBAT
posted by divabat at 2:29 PM on March 16, 2019 [35 favorites]
I presume this is one of the other people who were initially said to have been arrested: Christchurch mosque shootings: Camouflage wearer claims wrongful arrest
posted by Joe in Australia at 2:44 PM on March 16, 2019 [7 favorites]
"They had me on my knees, they had a gun in my face.I didn't know police could issue a warning for stupidity. It would seem to be an underutilised remedy. All snark aside, though, the fact that nobody seems to have been shot by NZ police responding to the incident – not even the killer – is remarkable and does them credit.
"I said, 'I've done nothing wrong. They said I was an idiot for wearing camouflage clothing."
[...]
"They have given me a verbal warning for stupidity and the only thing they could say was [that it was] disorderly behaviour."
posted by Joe in Australia at 2:44 PM on March 16, 2019 [7 favorites]
Ms vac2003 and I just came back from a visit to pay our respects at the local mosque in Kilbirnie, here in Wellington. When we arrived there no more than a couple of hundred people milling around outside the mosque on the street as well inside courtyard. I noticed that the local imam was greeting a party of people and there were a couple of TV crew and reporters there too. It took me a while to realise he was in fact greeting and hugging the Prime Minister. I only mention that because if you didn't recognise her, you wouldn't have known that the Prime Minister of New Zealand was visiting there. Sure there were 4 or 5 armed police around and a couple of suits with earpieces but it was very low key in a way I imagine mefites from larger countries would find hard to understand.
The atmosphere of the crowd was one of quiet, respectful sorrow but with a feeling of solidarity that is hard to put into words. Conversations, if any, were muted, people placed flowers, as we did, or drew messages of support on the footpath with the large pieces of chalk that were lying around. A woman in a hijab stood at the entrance of the courtyard handing out tissues from a box she was holding alongside with a paged-sized photo of one the victims.
We had basically stood around for about ten to fifteen minutes and then something extraordinary happened. The imam had been speaking with and embracing people inside the courtyard. He then came out onto the street where we were standing. He embraced several people speaking softly with them. At first I thought it was people he knew. But it soon became apparent he was embracing strangers. I was standing a few feet away and walked up to him. We hugged each other and I said, sobbing slightly, "I'm sorry, I'm so sorry. You are us and we are you". And he said, tears streaming down his face, "I know. I know. I feel so much love here today. Thank you for being here."
The courage he showed, the emotional strength it must have taken to greet so many of us like that, the depth of his faith, when his heart must have been torn apart with grief, was quite extraordinary. Love really does conquer all.
posted by vac2003 at 6:38 PM on March 16, 2019 [73 favorites]
The atmosphere of the crowd was one of quiet, respectful sorrow but with a feeling of solidarity that is hard to put into words. Conversations, if any, were muted, people placed flowers, as we did, or drew messages of support on the footpath with the large pieces of chalk that were lying around. A woman in a hijab stood at the entrance of the courtyard handing out tissues from a box she was holding alongside with a paged-sized photo of one the victims.
We had basically stood around for about ten to fifteen minutes and then something extraordinary happened. The imam had been speaking with and embracing people inside the courtyard. He then came out onto the street where we were standing. He embraced several people speaking softly with them. At first I thought it was people he knew. But it soon became apparent he was embracing strangers. I was standing a few feet away and walked up to him. We hugged each other and I said, sobbing slightly, "I'm sorry, I'm so sorry. You are us and we are you". And he said, tears streaming down his face, "I know. I know. I feel so much love here today. Thank you for being here."
The courage he showed, the emotional strength it must have taken to greet so many of us like that, the depth of his faith, when his heart must have been torn apart with grief, was quite extraordinary. Love really does conquer all.
posted by vac2003 at 6:38 PM on March 16, 2019 [73 favorites]
Well said vac2003. I hadn't realised people were going to the mosque, I'd got the impression from their social media that they were closed and didn't necessarily want visitors right now. Good to see people out there.
I'm planning on heading down to the main vigil in Wellington. It's already been moved from the original site due to the numbers expected to be there. Meanwhile the supporters of our soccer team will be singing Tūtira Mai ("seek after knowledge and love of others....call ourselves one people") to honour the victims.
posted by Pink Frost at 7:37 PM on March 16, 2019 [8 favorites]
I'm planning on heading down to the main vigil in Wellington. It's already been moved from the original site due to the numbers expected to be there. Meanwhile the supporters of our soccer team will be singing Tūtira Mai ("seek after knowledge and love of others....call ourselves one people") to honour the victims.
posted by Pink Frost at 7:37 PM on March 16, 2019 [8 favorites]
I'm torn on egg boy. On the one hand, it's exactly as divabat says - he's sucking up all the oxygen, and people are flocking to debate his actions rather than confront the larger issues because it's easier. On the other hand, he set a good example by using his privilege to put his body on the line for the sake of others. A boy exactly like him but with darker skin wouldn't have gotten near enough for an egging and if he had, he wouldn't have survived those thugs.
And he opens up the question of what is an acceptable response to fascism - plenty of people are doing the "but both sides!" thing and getting mainstream pushback so I hope we're coming closer as a community to accepting deplatforming as a tactic in this fight.
posted by harriet vane at 8:04 PM on March 16, 2019 [8 favorites]
And he opens up the question of what is an acceptable response to fascism - plenty of people are doing the "but both sides!" thing and getting mainstream pushback so I hope we're coming closer as a community to accepting deplatforming as a tactic in this fight.
posted by harriet vane at 8:04 PM on March 16, 2019 [8 favorites]
An excerpt from an appalling BBC interview, posted on Twitter by @miqdaad (Miqdaad Versi). I don't know the people involved; can any UK MeFites put names to them?
[via @Yair_Rosenberg]
posted by Joe in Australia at 8:34 PM on March 16, 2019 [9 favorites]
[my transcript]IMO this is a clear example of someone wielding institutional power against minorities. There probably won't be any consequences for the interviewer: similar remarks made by another interviewer regarding the 2015 murders of Jews in France were found to be consistent with BBC policy. Apparently you can say anything, as long as you ascribe it to (unknown and unidentified) critics.
Interviewer: [...] some of this language has become normalised, almost, kind of anti-Muslim language and rhetoric, it's bluntly because of the Islamist language and violence, and the Islamist extremism that's happened. One of the criticisms you hear in communities for instance in this country is there hasn't been enough criticism of those people by the mainstream Islamic community. What do you say to that?
[n.b., if the interviewee had screeched and leapt across the table with bared fingernails at this point I would totally have supported her]
Interviewee: I mean, I think, in my experience and in my Muslim community and Muslim communities in the UK, we have always deplored and we have always condemned this kind of violence; this isn't endorsed in any way by Islam, and to associate with it is dangerous, and is offensive, and the main - the main perpetrators [...]
[via @Yair_Rosenberg]
posted by Joe in Australia at 8:34 PM on March 16, 2019 [9 favorites]
Radio New Zealand this morning:
- Morning Report special coverage 1, 2
- Mediawatch
- Police Commissioner Mike Bush update on Christchurch terror attacks
- Dr Sarb Johal: Helping young people through the Christchurch tragedy
- The rise and rise of nationalism in Europe
I see a petition (at 870k) for all those AU Mefi's -
Remove Fraser Anning from parliament
posted by phigmov at 9:37 PM on March 16, 2019 [5 favorites]
Remove Fraser Anning from parliament
posted by phigmov at 9:37 PM on March 16, 2019 [5 favorites]
Apart from making a statement, it doesn't mean much - he's 99% certain to be gone at the next election, which is almost guaranteed to be held within the next 60 days (unless the Government wants to pull separate half-Senate & Reps elections, which they won't).
The alternative - kicking him now and creating a casual vacancy (that maybe needs to be filled before then? Not sure of the timeline there) - would open a can of worms that nobody, not even the public, wants opened.
In the meantime, I'll just leave you with this little bit of joy from /r/Australia:
The alternative - kicking him now and creating a casual vacancy (that maybe needs to be filled before then? Not sure of the timeline there) - would open a can of worms that nobody, not even the public, wants opened.
In the meantime, I'll just leave you with this little bit of joy from /r/Australia:
Imagine everywhere you go, there are people with eggs. Not throwing them, just holding a carton (which may even be empty,) watching and following you. They leave after 5 to 10 minutes, and you turn to see someone else doing exactly the same thing.posted by Pinback at 10:20 PM on March 16, 2019 [30 favorites]
You call the police, but it's not illegal to stand in public looking at a politician while holding your groceries. We have a right to bear ovum in Australia after all.
It ramps up. First it was official public appearences. Now, after a few weeks, it's when you're out having dinner there's someone standing outside, while you're on the freeway a car matches your speed and the passenger holds up those damned eggs. You're at a breakfast function and the omlette chef gives you a too-knowing look. Who can you trust? Can you even look your own family in the eye anymore?
Then Easter comes.
The Basin Reserve in Wellington is full. There are so many people here.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 10:30 PM on March 16, 2019 [8 favorites]
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 10:30 PM on March 16, 2019 [8 favorites]
Christopher Dickey:
It's Time to Attack White Nationalism for the Terror Group it Is
Tarrant may have been a lone shooter, but he was not a “lone wolf.” He was part of a much wider movement that is every bit as extensive as Al Qaeda was when it attacked the United States in 2001, and potentially much more dangerous to the future of Western democracies.
Now, before it grows any stronger, should be the time to move against it with the same kind of concerted international focus of attention and resources that were trained on Osama bin Laden. Now is the time for a Global War on White Nationalist Terrorism.
posted by growabrain at 11:03 PM on March 16, 2019 [29 favorites]
It's Time to Attack White Nationalism for the Terror Group it Is
Tarrant may have been a lone shooter, but he was not a “lone wolf.” He was part of a much wider movement that is every bit as extensive as Al Qaeda was when it attacked the United States in 2001, and potentially much more dangerous to the future of Western democracies.
Now, before it grows any stronger, should be the time to move against it with the same kind of concerted international focus of attention and resources that were trained on Osama bin Laden. Now is the time for a Global War on White Nationalist Terrorism.
posted by growabrain at 11:03 PM on March 16, 2019 [29 favorites]
I think it was on the BBC I saw an interview just after the attacks with a man in a wheelchair in the street just outside a police cordon, who said that he had been separated from his wife and did not know where she was. According to the RNZ Mediawatch piece I linked to above, his name is Farid Ahmed. Stuff reported that his wife, Husna, was killed at the Al Noor Mosque.
Speaking from his Christchurch home on Saturday Farid Ahmed said he did not hate the terror suspect.posted by XMLicious at 1:09 AM on March 17, 2019 [7 favorites]
“I don't hold any grudges. I just don't understand. I have compassion for them, I hope and pray that they will learn, listen and they will be turned as better humans and they will care for people instead,” he said.
“In any fruit basket you get one or two bad fruit, so we should not hold onto that thought. We are one people and some people are trying to spread hate to create animosity between us.”
He said his wife was a “very courageous and caring” person and a “dedicated wife”.
“We worked as a team, we were extremely happy.”
Losing her was a “big loss” for him and their 15-year-old daughter.
“Everything hurts, I'm feeling for her, I'm feeling for all the people hurt and I'm feeling for the whole of New Zealand.”
New Zealand pulls Murdoch’s Sky News Australia off the air over mosque massacre coverage
They pulled sky news! That's a good start.
“Already tonight, you are hearing calls in this country for curbs on free speech in response to the New Zealand massacre,” Fox host Tucker Carlson said Friday night. “Jeff Bezos’ newspaper wasted no time in blaming the entire thing [on] free flow of ideas that are, quote, ‘spreading hate.’ For the censorship class, more control is always the solution. Ban more people, squelch more ideas, go deplatform someone.”
STFU tucker.
posted by adept256 at 1:12 AM on March 17, 2019 [16 favorites]
They pulled sky news! That's a good start.
“Already tonight, you are hearing calls in this country for curbs on free speech in response to the New Zealand massacre,” Fox host Tucker Carlson said Friday night. “Jeff Bezos’ newspaper wasted no time in blaming the entire thing [on] free flow of ideas that are, quote, ‘spreading hate.’ For the censorship class, more control is always the solution. Ban more people, squelch more ideas, go deplatform someone.”
STFU tucker.
posted by adept256 at 1:12 AM on March 17, 2019 [16 favorites]
I am not a big booster of the NZ police but the aside in this story about damaging a car is pure NZ right there. (Story is detailed account of how the offender was actually apprehended).
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 1:39 AM on March 17, 2019 [5 favorites]
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 1:39 AM on March 17, 2019 [5 favorites]
NZ gun owners began to stock up ahead of an anticipated crackdown while the lockdown was still in effect: 'It's not fair to blame us': aisles at Gun City are busy in wake of Christchurch attack
[…] An employee who works at a takeaway shop opposite Gun City, New Zealand’s largest gun retailer, confirmed to the Guardian that business had been “extremely busy” at the rifle store since Friday’s massacre. She said she only usually saw such crowds at the shop’s annual sale.posted by Joe in Australia at 4:42 AM on March 17, 2019 [19 favorites]
The employee said despite every other shop going into lockdown during the three-hour event, the doors of Gun City remained open. As police chased the killer and ambulances rushed to attend the injured and dying, streams of buyers entered the doors of Gun City carrying empty rifle bags.
“It was disturbing,” she says.
Tucker Carlson sharing the manifesto in an attempt to go after Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.
posted by Artw at 6:36 AM on March 17, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by Artw at 6:36 AM on March 17, 2019 [2 favorites]
Opinion: We Confronted Chelsea Clinton At The Christchurch Vigil. Here's Why.
posted by Artw at 8:58 AM on March 17, 2019 [4 favorites]
posted by Artw at 8:58 AM on March 17, 2019 [4 favorites]
Tucker Carlson sharing the manifesto in an attempt to go after Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez cause more mass murders.
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:30 AM on March 17, 2019 [11 favorites]
posted by Rust Moranis at 9:30 AM on March 17, 2019 [11 favorites]
NZ gun owners began to stock up ahead of an anticipated crackdown while the lockdown was still in effect
Just remember this the next time your friendly neighborhood gun nut (*cough* sorry, "sportsman") talks about law and order. Scum.
posted by aramaic at 11:01 AM on March 17, 2019 [6 favorites]
Just remember this the next time your friendly neighborhood gun nut (*cough* sorry, "sportsman") talks about law and order. Scum.
posted by aramaic at 11:01 AM on March 17, 2019 [6 favorites]
Tucker Carlson
Surprisingly, I find that I still had some expectations of basic decency from the Trumpist right, some unconscious belief that they would react to an atrocity like this in some other way but by seizing on it as a chance to claim that they were the real victims here, perhaps simply keeping quiet for a day or two, if they couldn't bring themselves to mouth some formulas of condolence or condemnation......but no.
posted by thelonius at 11:36 AM on March 17, 2019 [4 favorites]
Surprisingly, I find that I still had some expectations of basic decency from the Trumpist right, some unconscious belief that they would react to an atrocity like this in some other way but by seizing on it as a chance to claim that they were the real victims here, perhaps simply keeping quiet for a day or two, if they couldn't bring themselves to mouth some formulas of condolence or condemnation......but no.
posted by thelonius at 11:36 AM on March 17, 2019 [4 favorites]
Opinion: We Confronted Chelsea Clinton At The Christchurch Vigil. Here's Why.
I notice that "Because we're shallow turds whose defense against having been raging homophobes five years ago is that we're barely out of our teens" doesn't get a mention. Also that they monetised their outrage. We're 2+ years into the Trump presidency which means, if you're around 20, that this has been politics for your entire adult life: polarise, attack, profit.
Here's the actual Tweet that Dweik claims to have found so outrageous. Omar herself apologised for the "Benjamins" Tweet and she knows Clinton well enough to talk directly, as they have. Claiming that "49 people died because of the rhetoric that [Chelsea Clinton] put out there" is obviously a lie. Nobody with the least capacity for reflection could take it as anything other than a violent rant designed to stir up outrage. This has been all over right-wing media as yet another example of how Democrats are hateful and divided. They need her and she needs them; let them have each other.
posted by Joe in Australia at 3:17 PM on March 17, 2019 [19 favorites]
I notice that "Because we're shallow turds whose defense against having been raging homophobes five years ago is that we're barely out of our teens" doesn't get a mention. Also that they monetised their outrage. We're 2+ years into the Trump presidency which means, if you're around 20, that this has been politics for your entire adult life: polarise, attack, profit.
Here's the actual Tweet that Dweik claims to have found so outrageous. Omar herself apologised for the "Benjamins" Tweet and she knows Clinton well enough to talk directly, as they have. Claiming that "49 people died because of the rhetoric that [Chelsea Clinton] put out there" is obviously a lie. Nobody with the least capacity for reflection could take it as anything other than a violent rant designed to stir up outrage. This has been all over right-wing media as yet another example of how Democrats are hateful and divided. They need her and she needs them; let them have each other.
posted by Joe in Australia at 3:17 PM on March 17, 2019 [19 favorites]
Here's an excellent Twitter thread by @brucewilson on the shooter's manifesto, and how the "cultural Marxism" conspiracy theory (previously) contributed to motivating the shooter.
posted by homunculus at 3:18 PM on March 17, 2019 [4 favorites]
posted by homunculus at 3:18 PM on March 17, 2019 [4 favorites]
This about Dubscribe to PewDiePie describes pretty much every dumb fascist dogwhistle, the white power okay sign being the latest dumb example.
posted by Artw at 6:17 PM on March 17, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 6:17 PM on March 17, 2019 [1 favorite]
Also the owner of that gun store chain is notorious for his disregard for the law (he was once imprisoned in the US for violating airline regulations transporting firearms).
He just gave a press conference where he admitted selling Mr Fuckstick many guns over a period of months...
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 6:50 PM on March 17, 2019 [1 favorite]
He just gave a press conference where he admitted selling Mr Fuckstick many guns over a period of months...
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 6:50 PM on March 17, 2019 [1 favorite]
i_am_joe's_spleen - it will come as no surprise to you that Whale Oil's Cameron Slater [right-wing blogger and all round nasty piece of work] has been a staunch defender of Gun City/David Tipple. Not linking, but a 2016 post begins, "The NZ Herald has done a nice hit job on Gun City in their continued and wonky jihad against guns." You can imagine the rest.
So yeah, people are known by the company they keep.
posted by vac2003 at 7:04 PM on March 17, 2019 [1 favorite]
So yeah, people are known by the company they keep.
posted by vac2003 at 7:04 PM on March 17, 2019 [1 favorite]
[Gun City's owner] just gave a press conference where he admitted selling Mr Fuckstick many guns over a period of months...
In the light of recent events Gun City's advertising billboard (scroll down) is really on the nose. "Get The Family Outside", indeed.
posted by Joe in Australia at 7:09 PM on March 17, 2019
In the light of recent events Gun City's advertising billboard (scroll down) is really on the nose. "Get The Family Outside", indeed.
posted by Joe in Australia at 7:09 PM on March 17, 2019
Joe: we had to walk past one of those billboards only a block away from the vigil at Basin Reserve yesterday.
In encouraging news the owner of the media company that rents the space for that Basin Reserve billboard has said on Twitter it's coming down and they will stop doing business with Gun City.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 7:14 PM on March 17, 2019 [5 favorites]
In encouraging news the owner of the media company that rents the space for that Basin Reserve billboard has said on Twitter it's coming down and they will stop doing business with Gun City.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 7:14 PM on March 17, 2019 [5 favorites]
NZ Police Commissioner Mike Bush just gave a press conference stating that they've concluded that there was only one attacker, though this does not rule out collaborators who didn't directly participate in the attack.
posted by XMLicious at 9:55 PM on March 17, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by XMLicious at 9:55 PM on March 17, 2019 [1 favorite]
Will somebody answer me a simple question.... why has Facebook NOT just deleted the million-plus uploads of the video of the massacre, but also BANNED every user who uploaded it??? Not suspended... BANNED.
posted by oneswellfoop at 11:14 PM on March 17, 2019 [5 favorites]
posted by oneswellfoop at 11:14 PM on March 17, 2019 [5 favorites]
After the Christchurch shooting, Clancy Dackbulge asks: who are the real victims?
[First Dog on the Moon]
posted by Joe in Australia at 12:52 AM on March 18, 2019 [2 favorites]
[First Dog on the Moon]
posted by Joe in Australia at 12:52 AM on March 18, 2019 [2 favorites]
As much as I love first-dog that cartoon is pretty meaningless in a NZ context, as mentioned above Sky News was taken off the air here, it's still gone.
So enjoy the cartoon, but read it as if you are an
Aussie
posted by mbo at 1:25 AM on March 18, 2019 [2 favorites]
So enjoy the cartoon, but read it as if you are an
Aussie
posted by mbo at 1:25 AM on March 18, 2019 [2 favorites]
Toby Morris cartoon, always reliable.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 1:34 AM on March 18, 2019 [6 favorites]
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 1:34 AM on March 18, 2019 [6 favorites]
Will somebody answer me a simple question.... why has Facebook NOT just deleted the million-plus uploads of the video of the massacre, but also BANNED every user who uploaded it??? Not suspended... BANNED.
Permabans have probably been happening to some greater or lesser degree; all information about this comes from Facebook itself, which is quite happy to be opaque about details. My uninformed assumption would be that permabans are a generally delicate thing because a) Facebook hates having to take precise positions on things and demonstrating that they have the power they do in fact possess, b) if they permaban someone who uploaded the hateful thing out of sheer morbid naivete and intending no malice (which, with 1.5 million uploads, undoubtedly happened at least once) they will get screamed at, and c) every lost user is a loss of revenue. If you've made it impossible for someone to put the video up, the garden is still tidy and we can say that all is well.
This is obviously not a satisfying answer, but I think it is isn't so far from wrong.
posted by Going To Maine at 5:19 AM on March 18, 2019 [1 favorite]
Permabans have probably been happening to some greater or lesser degree; all information about this comes from Facebook itself, which is quite happy to be opaque about details. My uninformed assumption would be that permabans are a generally delicate thing because a) Facebook hates having to take precise positions on things and demonstrating that they have the power they do in fact possess, b) if they permaban someone who uploaded the hateful thing out of sheer morbid naivete and intending no malice (which, with 1.5 million uploads, undoubtedly happened at least once) they will get screamed at, and c) every lost user is a loss of revenue. If you've made it impossible for someone to put the video up, the garden is still tidy and we can say that all is well.
This is obviously not a satisfying answer, but I think it is isn't so far from wrong.
posted by Going To Maine at 5:19 AM on March 18, 2019 [1 favorite]
O, also: if Facebook is coordinating with law enforcement, they may not be banning people in order to help with making cases and tracking user activity. Once someone is banned, it's hard to get useful new information from the account.
posted by Going To Maine at 5:51 AM on March 18, 2019
posted by Going To Maine at 5:51 AM on March 18, 2019
Kelly Anne Conway joining Tucker Carson in urging everyone to read the manifesto.
posted by Artw at 7:55 AM on March 18, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 7:55 AM on March 18, 2019 [1 favorite]
Australian broadcaster Jan Fran on media double-standards over Christchurch.
posted by rory at 8:03 AM on March 18, 2019 [3 favorites]
posted by rory at 8:03 AM on March 18, 2019 [3 favorites]
"When Australia found itself tragically in a similar position to what we find ourselves now, they took 12 days to make their decision. We have taken 72 hours," Ardern said.
About their decision to reform gun laws. In just three days! Did they even try thoughts and prayers?
posted by adept256 at 9:00 AM on March 18, 2019 [11 favorites]
About their decision to reform gun laws. In just three days! Did they even try thoughts and prayers?
posted by adept256 at 9:00 AM on March 18, 2019 [11 favorites]
I've looked up the numbers, Jacinda, since we're having a race. It took 12 weeks from 28 April 1996 to devise, draft, debate and implement our gun laws, which has kept us safe for over twenty years.
This is a race I'm happy to lose, if only for another example of how this can be done overnight, will work, and only pisses off assholes.
posted by adept256 at 10:10 AM on March 18, 2019 [1 favorite]
This is a race I'm happy to lose, if only for another example of how this can be done overnight, will work, and only pisses off assholes.
posted by adept256 at 10:10 AM on March 18, 2019 [1 favorite]
Three days is something you can do in a parliamentary democracy with a majority government. It's not something you can do in a system where the biggest concern of the founders was to prevent majorities from getting things done quickly.
posted by clawsoon at 10:14 AM on March 18, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by clawsoon at 10:14 AM on March 18, 2019 [1 favorite]
I've still been mostly avoiding news and social media but read the Dom Post (Wellington Paper) this morning. It was interesting to see the media give a multi-page spread to gun-control but nothing about the alt-right or the threat posed by white-supremacy. I'm intrigued to see how the media in NZ digs into this side of things.
Listening to the radio (Monday), I'm pleased to hear the 18yr old who disseminated the live-stream video (apparently unconnected with the shooter) and had also posted objectionable material online in the week prior to the attack (including a picture of a one of the attacked mosques with 'target identified' written on it) has appeared in court. I really want to see these people and their associated networks investigated & rolled-up - the PM has initiated an inquiry into how agencies missed this. This morning (Tuesday), there are questions being asked about why agencies have missed the rise of right-wing extremisms - someone tracking the extreme right-wing in NZ that reported his findings to the police over the years mentioned that they seemed more interested in what information he had about environmental activists.
As an indian born in NZ, I'm still processing what occurred. Talking to a few colleagues at work, the feeling is of overwhelming tragedy, horror, anger and shame that this should have happened here, as well as solidarity & support for those affected.
posted by phigmov at 10:17 AM on March 18, 2019 [11 favorites]
Listening to the radio (Monday), I'm pleased to hear the 18yr old who disseminated the live-stream video (apparently unconnected with the shooter) and had also posted objectionable material online in the week prior to the attack (including a picture of a one of the attacked mosques with 'target identified' written on it) has appeared in court. I really want to see these people and their associated networks investigated & rolled-up - the PM has initiated an inquiry into how agencies missed this. This morning (Tuesday), there are questions being asked about why agencies have missed the rise of right-wing extremisms - someone tracking the extreme right-wing in NZ that reported his findings to the police over the years mentioned that they seemed more interested in what information he had about environmental activists.
As an indian born in NZ, I'm still processing what occurred. Talking to a few colleagues at work, the feeling is of overwhelming tragedy, horror, anger and shame that this should have happened here, as well as solidarity & support for those affected.
posted by phigmov at 10:17 AM on March 18, 2019 [11 favorites]
Three days is something you can do in a parliamentary democracy with a majority government.
We don't have a majority government. (Or more correctly we have a majority coalition government of three quite different parties). The difference is that as far as I can tell our main opposition is quite happy to agree with stricter gun laws. And conservative groups like Federated Farmers seem to agree.
phigmov, I definitely agree with the media coverage, although some of it's better than I thought - Stuff right now has a headline about 'white superiority' being alive and well, and another about the Canterbury Crusaders name change (short version: rugby team, plays in Christchurch, with name that has always been problematic but now is even more so. They're consulting with Muslim community as to whether they should change).
The thing that's getting me is white New Zealand with 'who knew there were racists in Christchurch?' and 'the end of our innocence' (also Stuff). Feel like maybe listening to Maori, Pasifika, Asian, Middle Eastern, African and Jewish NZers would have told them there's less innocence here than they imagined.
posted by Pink Frost at 11:24 AM on March 18, 2019 [16 favorites]
We don't have a majority government. (Or more correctly we have a majority coalition government of three quite different parties). The difference is that as far as I can tell our main opposition is quite happy to agree with stricter gun laws. And conservative groups like Federated Farmers seem to agree.
phigmov, I definitely agree with the media coverage, although some of it's better than I thought - Stuff right now has a headline about 'white superiority' being alive and well, and another about the Canterbury Crusaders name change (short version: rugby team, plays in Christchurch, with name that has always been problematic but now is even more so. They're consulting with Muslim community as to whether they should change).
The thing that's getting me is white New Zealand with 'who knew there were racists in Christchurch?' and 'the end of our innocence' (also Stuff). Feel like maybe listening to Maori, Pasifika, Asian, Middle Eastern, African and Jewish NZers would have told them there's less innocence here than they imagined.
posted by Pink Frost at 11:24 AM on March 18, 2019 [16 favorites]
I was at KiwiFoo a few weeks ago and made an off-hand comment about "Christchurch white supremacists" someone from Chch got slightly annoyed with me, but as a pākeha I've known that Christchurch is a hotbed of white supremacists/nazis/whatever for years, of course the Aussie terrorist was living here in Dunedin, not Chch and I'm sure he must have had some network of like minded friends here (why else did he settle here?) which is horribly scary, they're still around
posted by mbo at 11:44 AM on March 18, 2019 [11 favorites]
posted by mbo at 11:44 AM on March 18, 2019 [11 favorites]
I posted a link to an "appalling BBC interview" on the subject of the attacks earlier but I wasn't able to identify the people involved. I now know that the interviewee was Latifa Akay, whose OpEd appears in The Guardian today:
Why was I asked to condemn Islamist violence days after Christchurch?
Her interviewer was Shaun Ley.
Latifa Akay is director of education at Maslaha, "a charity that tackle social inequalities in Muslim and other marginalised communities." She holds an LLM in Human Rights, Conflict and Justice from SOAS University and an LLB in Law with Politics from Queen’s University, Belfast.
Shaun Ley's Twitter page, not updated since 2016, says that he is a presenter for BBC news. He is an empty shell of a man, whose lack of personal connection and grounding in human decency has evidently prepared him well.
posted by Joe in Australia at 1:27 PM on March 18, 2019 [5 favorites]
Why was I asked to condemn Islamist violence days after Christchurch?
Her interviewer was Shaun Ley.
Latifa Akay is director of education at Maslaha, "a charity that tackle social inequalities in Muslim and other marginalised communities." She holds an LLM in Human Rights, Conflict and Justice from SOAS University and an LLB in Law with Politics from Queen’s University, Belfast.
Shaun Ley's Twitter page, not updated since 2016, says that he is a presenter for BBC news. He is an empty shell of a man, whose lack of personal connection and grounding in human decency has evidently prepared him well.
posted by Joe in Australia at 1:27 PM on March 18, 2019 [5 favorites]
Three days is something you can do in a parliamentary democracy with a majority government.
Once in an Public Law class at Victoria University, being run by former NZ Prime Minister Geoffrey Palmer and his legal partner Mai Chen, Geoffrey was talking about his thesis that we had the "fastest law in the west" and how quickly our system of government allowed laws to change - often not for the better. He looked me square in the eye and asked me for any subject that I could think of, and he'd walk us through how quickly a hypothetical bill could be enacted on it. What came out of my mouth (I don't know why even to this day) was one word: Hovercraft.
I learnt two important lessons that day. One that New Zealand already had the Hovercraft Act of 1971 (now repealed I believe). And second, not to be a smart-ass in front of a former Prime Minister. I didn't get a blackboard duster thrown at me, as had happened to others, but I was close.
posted by inflatablekiwi at 3:00 PM on March 18, 2019 [12 favorites]
Once in an Public Law class at Victoria University, being run by former NZ Prime Minister Geoffrey Palmer and his legal partner Mai Chen, Geoffrey was talking about his thesis that we had the "fastest law in the west" and how quickly our system of government allowed laws to change - often not for the better. He looked me square in the eye and asked me for any subject that I could think of, and he'd walk us through how quickly a hypothetical bill could be enacted on it. What came out of my mouth (I don't know why even to this day) was one word: Hovercraft.
I learnt two important lessons that day. One that New Zealand already had the Hovercraft Act of 1971 (now repealed I believe). And second, not to be a smart-ass in front of a former Prime Minister. I didn't get a blackboard duster thrown at me, as had happened to others, but I was close.
posted by inflatablekiwi at 3:00 PM on March 18, 2019 [12 favorites]
I'm pretty late to the thread, but when I heard on NPR a guy talking about how Muslims everywhere were afraid to head to Friday prayers, I drew up a sign that said "YOU ARE SAFE HERE" and went and stood in front of the entrance of my local mosque here in SF. I was disappointed but not surprised that SFPD wasn't already there. Anyway I stood there until their prayers were done and then I made a bunch of new friends and one of them even bought me lunch.
A++, will be headed to the mosque to stand in the doorway each Friday that I can skip out of work for it now. They even invited me in to join them in prayers, so I'm going to learn how that works (the ritual cleansing part at least so that I can observe) this Friday.
posted by allkindsoftime at 5:04 PM on March 18, 2019 [19 favorites]
A++, will be headed to the mosque to stand in the doorway each Friday that I can skip out of work for it now. They even invited me in to join them in prayers, so I'm going to learn how that works (the ritual cleansing part at least so that I can observe) this Friday.
posted by allkindsoftime at 5:04 PM on March 18, 2019 [19 favorites]
After New Zealand, we can't view white supremacist hate as "just trolling"
Gaslit by the alt-right
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:49 PM on March 18, 2019 [5 favorites]
Gaslit by the alt-right
posted by T.D. Strange at 6:49 PM on March 18, 2019 [5 favorites]
Robert Mercer is Fueling A Multimillion Dollar Anti-Muslim Propaganda Industry
posted by Artw at 6:54 PM on March 18, 2019 [5 favorites]
posted by Artw at 6:54 PM on March 18, 2019 [5 favorites]
Parliament had its first sitting this afternoon (NZ time) since the terror attack on Friday. The session was opened by Imam Nizam ul haq Thanvi who gave a prayer in Arabic. You can see it here. Gave me the chills I can tell you.
posted by vac2003 at 7:06 PM on March 18, 2019 [4 favorites]
posted by vac2003 at 7:06 PM on March 18, 2019 [4 favorites]
if anyone's curious, it's taken from a part of the Al-Baqarah, which is the second chapter in the Qur'an (starting from verse no. 153 to 156; i found a transliteration here. the rest of it is basically formula for prayers to god and the prophets which you can do when you finish reciting verses from the Qur'an).
posted by cendawanita at 8:44 PM on March 18, 2019 [4 favorites]
posted by cendawanita at 8:44 PM on March 18, 2019 [4 favorites]
Mona Eltahawy has put together a Twitter thread of video clips of hakas being performed in honor of the victims of the massacre.
posted by homunculus at 11:31 PM on March 18, 2019 [5 favorites]
posted by homunculus at 11:31 PM on March 18, 2019 [5 favorites]
I suspect the crew in the first haka is likely one of the reasons overtly white-supremacist groups (eg skinheads of a Nazi persuasion) keep a low profile in NZ. Hardly saints (although they are doing a lot of community work to try and turn their image around in a number of ways), but the Black Power & Mongrel Mob motorcycle gangs would not take kindly to Nazis muscling in on their patch. Middle class racists and hateful internet inspired loners are going to fly under that particular radar though.
posted by phigmov at 12:10 AM on March 19, 2019 [4 favorites]
posted by phigmov at 12:10 AM on March 19, 2019 [4 favorites]
Students perform haka to pay tribute to classmates killed in Christchurch (Guardian Video)
posted by Little Dawn at 8:23 AM on March 19, 2019 [4 favorites]
posted by Little Dawn at 8:23 AM on March 19, 2019 [4 favorites]
Apparently Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, the President of Turkey, is using videos of the massacre in his election campaign and making bellicose threats to Australians and New Zealanders who allegedly intend to come to Turkey and kill Muslims. Australia's Prime Minister has responded by attempting to defuse the situation with his own gentle charm oh silly me no he has not:
New Zealand shooting comments spark diplomatic row as Scott Morrison calls in Turkish ambassador
posted by Joe in Australia at 6:33 PM on March 19, 2019 [4 favorites]
New Zealand shooting comments spark diplomatic row as Scott Morrison calls in Turkish ambassador
posted by Joe in Australia at 6:33 PM on March 19, 2019 [4 favorites]
Meanwhile, in the last 10 years, no mention of right wing extremism from our security agencies. Who, I might add, don't take much trouble to hide how they surveil Muslims, left-wing activists, environmentalists, and Māori activists. (SIS is humint, GCSB is sigint, like GCHQ or the NSA).
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 6:33 PM on March 19, 2019 [8 favorites]
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 6:33 PM on March 19, 2019 [8 favorites]
NZ ISPs block websites with footage of Christchurch shooting
posted by Start with Dessert at 8:21 PM on March 19, 2019 [4 favorites]
posted by Start with Dessert at 8:21 PM on March 19, 2019 [4 favorites]
Gizmodo reporting on the ISP blocks; 4chan and 8chan no longer accessible in NZ.
posted by Start with Dessert at 8:40 PM on March 19, 2019 [12 favorites]
posted by Start with Dessert at 8:40 PM on March 19, 2019 [12 favorites]
NZ declares massacre video “objectionable,” arrests people who shared it
New Zealand's chief censor classified the Christchurch video objectionable.
That's US-oriented but here are some of its sources: 1, 2, 3
posted by XMLicious at 6:25 PM on March 20, 2019 [3 favorites]
New Zealand's chief censor classified the Christchurch video objectionable.
That's US-oriented but here are some of its sources: 1, 2, 3
posted by XMLicious at 6:25 PM on March 20, 2019 [3 favorites]
And the NZ PM has announced there will be a ban on military style semi-automatics and assault rifles .
The main opposition National Party have signalled support, as have Federated Farmers and Fish and Game NZ. Seems like near all the important players are on board.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 8:18 PM on March 20, 2019 [9 favorites]
The main opposition National Party have signalled support, as have Federated Farmers and Fish and Game NZ. Seems like near all the important players are on board.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 8:18 PM on March 20, 2019 [9 favorites]
“As of 3pm 21 March 2019 changes have been made by an Order in Council to ensure the immediate safety and peace of mind of New Zealand communities”
posted by inflatablekiwi at 8:22 PM on March 20, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by inflatablekiwi at 8:22 PM on March 20, 2019 [2 favorites]
Two things annoyed me this morning reading the local paper -
* Karl Du Fresne comment column "Some would paint us as a nation of hateful racists - that's not the real NZ" as a counter-reaction to Toby Morris' comic mentioned above (and other articles pointing out latent racism in NZ society etc) - which seems like a very male middle-class Pākehā thing to say. I'm actually surprised he didn't hashtag his piece notallwhitepeople.
* "Tourism sector holds its breath after ANZ warns Christchurch shootings will deter visitors" - which IMHO is a terrible thing to worry about. We often get news items along the lines of "Giant cruise ship visits Wellington and we'll be able to make bank off all the tourists" so it isn't unexpected - I just wondered how long it'd be before someone decided to write an article about it.
Flipside, there are a lot of great stories of love and support for those directly and indirectly affected by the tragedy. In addition to the assault rifle-ban, I'm also seeing calls for a closed court for the offender - give that guy and his toxic views no further oxygen.
posted by phigmov at 9:24 PM on March 20, 2019 [4 favorites]
* Karl Du Fresne comment column "Some would paint us as a nation of hateful racists - that's not the real NZ" as a counter-reaction to Toby Morris' comic mentioned above (and other articles pointing out latent racism in NZ society etc) - which seems like a very male middle-class Pākehā thing to say. I'm actually surprised he didn't hashtag his piece notallwhitepeople.
* "Tourism sector holds its breath after ANZ warns Christchurch shootings will deter visitors" - which IMHO is a terrible thing to worry about. We often get news items along the lines of "Giant cruise ship visits Wellington and we'll be able to make bank off all the tourists" so it isn't unexpected - I just wondered how long it'd be before someone decided to write an article about it.
Flipside, there are a lot of great stories of love and support for those directly and indirectly affected by the tragedy. In addition to the assault rifle-ban, I'm also seeing calls for a closed court for the offender - give that guy and his toxic views no further oxygen.
posted by phigmov at 9:24 PM on March 20, 2019 [4 favorites]
I attended a second vigil in town (Dunedin) tonight - Amnesty had organised it for the center of town but things got out of hand, in the end they moved it to the stadium 18,000 (variously reported as 15-30k) which is roughly 1 person in 6 in town. This one was more formal, speeches etc, in Maopri/English/Arabic with appropriate translations.
We brought some Syrian refugee friends, I think that seeing so many people helped them, when we picked them up I noticed someone had created an impromptu memorial at the end of their street
posted by mbo at 3:28 AM on March 21, 2019 [9 favorites]
We brought some Syrian refugee friends, I think that seeing so many people helped them, when we picked them up I noticed someone had created an impromptu memorial at the end of their street
posted by mbo at 3:28 AM on March 21, 2019 [9 favorites]
adept256: About their decision to reform gun laws. In just three days! Did they even try thoughts and prayers?
A stolen headline: "New Zealand bans military-style weapons less than a week after mosque attack, claims it's too soon to start discussing thoughts and prayers"
posted by clawsoon at 5:15 AM on March 21, 2019 [18 favorites]
A stolen headline: "New Zealand bans military-style weapons less than a week after mosque attack, claims it's too soon to start discussing thoughts and prayers"
posted by clawsoon at 5:15 AM on March 21, 2019 [18 favorites]
this photo
- Some NZ women have started wearing head scarves in solidarity
- We're so not used to cops carrying guns, some cops have been wearing flowers as well
This photo from Christchurch sort of brings those two threads together
posted by mbo at 12:49 PM on March 21, 2019 [13 favorites]
- Some NZ women have started wearing head scarves in solidarity
- We're so not used to cops carrying guns, some cops have been wearing flowers as well
This photo from Christchurch sort of brings those two threads together
posted by mbo at 12:49 PM on March 21, 2019 [13 favorites]
We're definitely doing thoughts-and-prayers too - the PM has decreed that the Friday call to prayer will be played nationally on radio/TV today, which will be followed by 2 minutes of national silence
She also will be removing all semi-automatic weapons (except 22s used for rabbit culling, and some low capacity duck hunting weapons), turns out you don't need to pray top do that, changing the law will do it
posted by mbo at 3:25 PM on March 21, 2019 [5 favorites]
She also will be removing all semi-automatic weapons (except 22s used for rabbit culling, and some low capacity duck hunting weapons), turns out you don't need to pray top do that, changing the law will do it
posted by mbo at 3:25 PM on March 21, 2019 [5 favorites]
I was my local supermarket here in Wellington (Thorndon New World) and a number of the staff were wearing headscarves, as were a few customers. Not masses, but enough to notice. We tend to pretty liberal here so will be interesting to see if this catches on. I also saw an item on the news about a female Anglican [Episcopalian] vicar and a Muslim woman promoting the item of wearing a green wrist band in solidarity. Hoping that catches on too.
posted by vac2003 at 4:31 PM on March 21, 2019 [4 favorites]
posted by vac2003 at 4:31 PM on March 21, 2019 [4 favorites]
From Melbourne's The Age:
Fraser Anning staffer and alleged Nazi enthusiast employed by Home Affairs
Can it get worse? Yes it can:
posted by Joe in Australia at 5:34 PM on March 21, 2019 [7 favorites]
Fraser Anning staffer and alleged Nazi enthusiast employed by Home Affairs
Can it get worse? Yes it can:
The political staffer accused of writing Fraser Anning’s infamous "final solution" speech and holding an obsession with Nazi Germany is employed by the federal government agency managing Australia’s immigration program, it has emerged.There's more there, including the fact that this guy was formerly a One Nation staffer. One Nation is a small-minded xenophobic Little-Australian party that formerly - before people like Anning chose to be independents - attracted the worst bigots in Australian politics.
[...]
The far-right Queensland senator rose to prominence in August last year after his maiden speech praised the White Australia Policy and said a national vote would provide "the final solution to the immigration problem".
"The final solution" is a phrase associated with Nazi Germany's extermination of Jewish people in Europe and beyond.
posted by Joe in Australia at 5:34 PM on March 21, 2019 [7 favorites]
This is the front page of the Press (Christchurch's main newspaper) today. Sorry the image is so small. I couldn't easily find a better one. It's just the word Salam ("peace") in Arabic, with the names of all the shooting victims at the bottom.
posted by lollusc at 12:38 AM on March 22, 2019 [5 favorites]
posted by lollusc at 12:38 AM on March 22, 2019 [5 favorites]
My mother (who lives in Christchurch) went shopping today wearing a headscarf (along with her Christian cross very obviously around her neck below it). I'm impressed. She is the kind of person who is not usually 100% okay with other religions and a little Islamaphobic.
posted by lollusc at 12:40 AM on March 22, 2019 [8 favorites]
posted by lollusc at 12:40 AM on March 22, 2019 [8 favorites]
lollusc
There is a larger image of the Christchurch Press' front page at the Huffington Post here.
posted by vac2003 at 10:36 AM on March 22, 2019
There is a larger image of the Christchurch Press' front page at the Huffington Post here.
posted by vac2003 at 10:36 AM on March 22, 2019
World embraces cartoonist's moving response.
posted by Coaticass at 2:23 PM on March 22, 2019 [6 favorites]
posted by Coaticass at 2:23 PM on March 22, 2019 [6 favorites]
World embraces cartoonist's moving response.
That's a superb image. And, kudos to The Canberra Times:
"Credit should also go to The Canberra Times for its generosity in allowing the distribution of the image."
It's so unusual to see humane behaviour from a corporation.
posted by Joe in Australia at 3:33 PM on March 23, 2019
That's a superb image. And, kudos to The Canberra Times:
"Credit should also go to The Canberra Times for its generosity in allowing the distribution of the image."
It's so unusual to see humane behaviour from a corporation.
posted by Joe in Australia at 3:33 PM on March 23, 2019
Censor bans gunman's manifesto
"There is an important distinction to be made between 'hate speech', which may be rejected by many right-thinking people but which is legal to express, and this type of publication, which is deliberately constructed to inspire further murder and terrorism. It crosses the line."
...
"We also appreciate that there will be a range of people, including reporters, researchers and academics, who will be in possession of the publication for a range of legitimate purposes, including education, analysis and in-depth reporting. Those individuals can apply for exemptions, so they can legitimately access and hold a copy."
posted by Start with Dessert at 4:16 PM on March 23, 2019
"There is an important distinction to be made between 'hate speech', which may be rejected by many right-thinking people but which is legal to express, and this type of publication, which is deliberately constructed to inspire further murder and terrorism. It crosses the line."
...
"We also appreciate that there will be a range of people, including reporters, researchers and academics, who will be in possession of the publication for a range of legitimate purposes, including education, analysis and in-depth reporting. Those individuals can apply for exemptions, so they can legitimately access and hold a copy."
posted by Start with Dessert at 4:16 PM on March 23, 2019
The censorship is a bit problematic IMO: you know every nerd in NZ who wants a copy has one, so it's only going to be academic users who need to apply for permits. Even so, I presume that permit-holders won't be able to publish it. There's going to have to be be some allowance made for publishing excerpts, at least, or how will people be able to discuss it? Even if the time isn't right for doing that now, what about in six months, or a year, or six years?
posted by Joe in Australia at 8:44 PM on March 23, 2019
posted by Joe in Australia at 8:44 PM on March 23, 2019
From Mahometan to Kiwi Muslim: A history of New Zealand's Muslim population published today on The Conversation.
posted by Coaticass at 4:14 AM on March 25, 2019
posted by Coaticass at 4:14 AM on March 25, 2019
Radio New Zealand interviews Professor Kathleen Belew: “Christchurch terrorist driven by classic white power ideologies” The Associate Professor of U.S. History and the College at the University of Chicago Kathleen Belew is the author of Bring the War Home: The White Power Movement and Paramilitary America.
posted by XMLicious at 5:10 AM on March 25, 2019 [5 favorites]
posted by XMLicious at 5:10 AM on March 25, 2019 [5 favorites]
The Khadija Leadership Network, which I understand is a NZ Muslim women's organisation, has called for a large donation made by the NZ Teochew Chinese community to be returned, and asked that it be applied "to combat Islamophobia in China where Muslims are being persecuted and held in internment camps":
Muslim network says $2m donation for Christchurch victims should go to persecuted Uighur people instead
Muslim network says $2m donation for Christchurch victims should go to persecuted Uighur people instead
[...] "Many in the Muslim community wish instead to address the plight of Uighur Muslims and take a stand against Islamophobia," the network's petition reads.posted by Joe in Australia at 12:43 AM on March 26, 2019 [8 favorites]
"Though we understand this generous donation isn't money from the Chinese government, we still firmly believe that the best assistance from any community that Muslims could receive is to call out Islamophobia, and stop the persecution of those practicing the Islamic faith around the world."
The petition calls the Uighur camps "the Auschwitz of contemporary times", and accused the New Zealand Government of turning a blind eye to injustice because of our historical links and business ties to China.
"As New Zealanders we have already lost our 50. We are simply calling for us all to lead in being a voice for those incarcerated for practising Islam."
FIANZ has been approached for comment.
Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern will travel to China on Sunday to meet with Chinese leader Xi Jinping amid speculation of a soured relationship.
She hasn't confirmed if she'll raise the issue of the Uighur people.
Short audio clip of New Zealand 95 year-old man who caught four buses to attend an anti-racism rally.
posted by Coaticass at 2:57 PM on March 26, 2019 [7 favorites]
posted by Coaticass at 2:57 PM on March 26, 2019 [7 favorites]
Text version of the story about the 95 year old veteran.
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 11:30 PM on March 26, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 11:30 PM on March 26, 2019 [2 favorites]
“JUST IN: Austrian Chancellor Sebastian Kurz says we can now confirm that there was financial support and so a connection between the New Zealand attacker and identitarian movement in Austria.” “Last March Tucker Carlson gave an impassioned defense of Martin Sellner, one of the leaders of the Austrian Identitarian movement, on his Fox show.
Steve King has also done a lengthy, and very friendly, interview with an Austrian Identitarian website.” the Austrian Movement has had previous ties to Charolettesville unite the right rally.
posted by The Whelk at 5:49 AM on March 27, 2019 [7 favorites]
Steve King has also done a lengthy, and very friendly, interview with an Austrian Identitarian website.” the Austrian Movement has had previous ties to Charolettesville unite the right rally.
posted by The Whelk at 5:49 AM on March 27, 2019 [7 favorites]
More detail about the link between the Austrian Identitarians and the shooter in this Reuters article, "Man charged with New Zealand mosque attacks gave cash to Austrian far-right: Chancellor Kurz":
“We can now confirm that there was financial support and so a link between the New Zealand attacker and the Identitarian Movement in Austria,” Kurz said.posted by mhum at 3:30 PM on March 27, 2019 [3 favorites]
A spokesman for prosecutors in Graz said the head of Austria’s Identitarian Movement, Martin Sellner, received 1,500 euros ($1,690) in early 2018 from a donor with the same name as the man charged over the March 15 Christchurch attacks.
Generation Identity's Martin Sellner has given speeches to the Traditional Britain Group whose other guests have included Richard Spencer and Jacob Rees-Mogg
There's a ITV undercover documentary at the linked article which gives you pretty clear picture of these people. You can see easily how their sub-culture spawns white supremacist terrorism.
It's quite worrying that there's so much cross-over with the 'respectable' right-wing politicians and media stirring these people up for their own ends in one direction and making some of their ideas mainstream in the other direction.
posted by Caractacus at 2:53 AM on March 28, 2019 [7 favorites]
There's a ITV undercover documentary at the linked article which gives you pretty clear picture of these people. You can see easily how their sub-culture spawns white supremacist terrorism.
It's quite worrying that there's so much cross-over with the 'respectable' right-wing politicians and media stirring these people up for their own ends in one direction and making some of their ideas mainstream in the other direction.
posted by Caractacus at 2:53 AM on March 28, 2019 [7 favorites]
There’s no real appreciable difference between most right wing parties and politicians and more extreme “indentitarians”, which is and of itself a historical Nazi term. It’s race hate all the way down.
posted by The Whelk at 5:30 AM on March 28, 2019 [5 favorites]
posted by The Whelk at 5:30 AM on March 28, 2019 [5 favorites]
The Register: Someone's spreading an MBR-trashing copy of the Christchurch killer's 'manifesto'
I can't say I'd be unhappy if a White Nationalist organisation lost their mailing list, but I suspect this will catch more good-to-neutral types than otherwise.
posted by Joe in Australia at 7:08 PM on March 28, 2019 [2 favorites]
I can't say I'd be unhappy if a White Nationalist organisation lost their mailing list, but I suspect this will catch more good-to-neutral types than otherwise.
posted by Joe in Australia at 7:08 PM on March 28, 2019 [2 favorites]
Alleged Christchurch mosque shooter lodges formal complaint from prison
tl;dr he's in solitary and doesn't get phone calls or visits, which he may or may not be entitled to. The rumour that he is solely being guarded by Pākehā (= White/European, I believe) officers is not correct. Also, "the alleged gunman has no access to television, radio or newspapers and no approved visitors."
posted by Joe in Australia at 8:41 PM on March 30, 2019 [2 favorites]
tl;dr he's in solitary and doesn't get phone calls or visits, which he may or may not be entitled to. The rumour that he is solely being guarded by Pākehā (= White/European, I believe) officers is not correct. Also, "the alleged gunman has no access to television, radio or newspapers and no approved visitors."
posted by Joe in Australia at 8:41 PM on March 30, 2019 [2 favorites]
oh boo hoo
posted by infini at 12:36 AM on March 31, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by infini at 12:36 AM on March 31, 2019 [2 favorites]
Oh, I know, just reporting. The conditions don't sound unreasonable under the circumstances.
I presume the "solely being guarded by Pākehā officers" rumour is meant to imply that other officers would not be able to restrain their beastly indignation and might impose their own rough justice. I'm glad Corrections ... corrected ... the story; the defenses erected to defend whiteness must be demolished altogether.
posted by Joe in Australia at 2:12 AM on March 31, 2019 [2 favorites]
I presume the "solely being guarded by Pākehā officers" rumour is meant to imply that other officers would not be able to restrain their beastly indignation and might impose their own rough justice. I'm glad Corrections ... corrected ... the story; the defenses erected to defend whiteness must be demolished altogether.
posted by Joe in Australia at 2:12 AM on March 31, 2019 [2 favorites]
I figured, but that was my gut response unfiltered there. We need a thread to discuss the encroaching white supremacy globally and how its trending, and thus the implications for the rest of us Others. Stuff like this has begun keeping me up at night. It isn't even micro aggression is it? I can be in Finland but if I use the internet its in my face night and day.
posted by infini at 6:36 AM on March 31, 2019 [4 favorites]
posted by infini at 6:36 AM on March 31, 2019 [4 favorites]
New Zealand Introduces Gun Control Bill Expected To Become Law Within Weeks (Francesca Paris for NPR, April 1, 2019)
posted by filthy light thief at 7:32 AM on April 1, 2019 [5 favorites]
New Zealand's government has introduced legislation that would ban most semi-automatic firearms, including the types of weapons used in shootings last month at two Christchurch mosques that killed 50 people.Good on you, New Zealand, for acting so fast on different fronts to reduce the chances of this happening again, and showing the world how to react to the radical right.
The bill's introduction on Monday marks the next step in passing gun control reform announced by Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern following the March 15 attacks. Days after the shooting, Ardern vowed that "every semi-automatic weapon used in the terrorist attack last Friday" would be banned.
New Zealand immediately imposed (NPR) some gun control measures on March 21. Police Minister Stuart Nash says the bill under consideration now, which is a broader ban, would go into effect on April 12 if it passes. That legislation reportedly has support across party lines (New York Times).
"This will mean that within four weeks of the Christchurch terrorist attack, New Zealand will have passed legislation banning all military-style semi-automatic weapons and assault rifles," deputy Prime Minister Winston Peters told reporters (Newstalk ZB) on Monday.
The Arms (Prohibited Firearms, Magazines, and Parts) Amendment Bill (Legislation.govt.NZ), introduced by Nash, would make it illegal to own certain parts that can be used to assemble prohibited weapons. Nash said Monday that the gunman in the Christchurch attacks created military-style weapons from legally purchased semi-automatic guns and high-capacity magazines.
"The loophole that this terrorist used to kill 50 people was totally unacceptable," Nash said, according to The Associated Press. "We're closing that down."
posted by filthy light thief at 7:32 AM on April 1, 2019 [5 favorites]
Australia takes a bold stance: Australia Criminalizes Failure To Remove Violent Content From Internet Platforms (Francesca Paris for NPR, April 4, 2019)
posted by filthy light thief at 7:16 AM on April 4, 2019 [3 favorites]
Australia's parliament has passed new laws to criminalize Internet platforms for failing to remove violent videos and audio, after an Australian gunman livestreamed himself shooting worshipers in two mosques in Christchurch, New Zealand.It'll be interesting to see how this plays out. If Service Providers take it seriously, there could indeed be some overly aggressive content take-downs, or they could shrug it off and let this get sorted in courts, with the next live-streaming of violent acts.
Under the new legislation, social media executives — among other online content or hosting providers — could be imprisoned for up to three years and companies could face penalties of up to 10% of their annual revenue if they do not remove violent content in an "expeditious" manner.
The bill passed on Thursday local time with cross party support but faced criticism, including that it could cause increased censorship and that the process was rushed.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:16 AM on April 4, 2019 [3 favorites]
Are they going to take down recordings of police violence, vulnerable people showing that they are endangered on public transport, and the like?
I am worried about this, because I have zero faith in the government to use this ability responsibly.
On the other hand, I'm glad the 8chan ISP block thing seems to be more effective now, there were patchy reports and it loaded once for me when I believe it shouldn't have.
There's men on there asking for emotional support and guidance in how to deal with their families after Christchurch. How to get their family to accept that they support the attack.
I really can't get that out of my head, and am happy access is being limited.
posted by AnhydrousLove at 7:51 AM on April 4, 2019 [4 favorites]
I am worried about this, because I have zero faith in the government to use this ability responsibly.
On the other hand, I'm glad the 8chan ISP block thing seems to be more effective now, there were patchy reports and it loaded once for me when I believe it shouldn't have.
There's men on there asking for emotional support and guidance in how to deal with their families after Christchurch. How to get their family to accept that they support the attack.
I really can't get that out of my head, and am happy access is being limited.
posted by AnhydrousLove at 7:51 AM on April 4, 2019 [4 favorites]
There's men on there asking for emotional support and guidance in how to deal with their families after Christchurch. How to get their family to accept that they support the attack.
The chans are absolutely full of trolling. It is impossible to know what is true and isn't. That said, I don't think it's better to be pretending to be that guy in a world where some people demonstrably are and have their views reinforced.
posted by jaduncan at 8:55 AM on April 4, 2019 [1 favorite]
The chans are absolutely full of trolling. It is impossible to know what is true and isn't. That said, I don't think it's better to be pretending to be that guy in a world where some people demonstrably are and have their views reinforced.
posted by jaduncan at 8:55 AM on April 4, 2019 [1 favorite]
It’s called “kidding on the square”. It’s a joke, but also they mean it.
posted by Artw at 10:19 AM on April 4, 2019 [7 favorites]
posted by Artw at 10:19 AM on April 4, 2019 [7 favorites]
An interesting look at how one paper covered a very challenging story:
Inside the Guardian
'We would never put that image on page 1': how we covered Christchurch
posted by Joe in Australia at 3:19 PM on April 6, 2019 [1 favorite]
Inside the Guardian
'We would never put that image on page 1': how we covered Christchurch
posted by Joe in Australia at 3:19 PM on April 6, 2019 [1 favorite]
According to this Radio New Zealand program the first gun control bill should be passed through Parliament on Thursday. Here is a bullet point list of the contents and attached audio, which covers Parliamentary details intensively, says that a second phase of regulation will pass through in the future on a more normal legislative schedule.
posted by XMLicious at 11:57 PM on April 7, 2019 [3 favorites]
posted by XMLicious at 11:57 PM on April 7, 2019 [3 favorites]
XMLicious: thanks, that's a really interesting look at a bit of unusual parliamentary procedure. This bit made me raise my eyebrows:
And the owner of Gun City told the Finance and Expenditure Committee that "dozens if not hundreds" of "firearms similar to that used in the Christchurch mosque attacks have been sold since15 March." Just think of that: so many people whose reaction to a massacre is "Wow, I had better get me one of those guns before I miss my chance".
posted by Joe in Australia at 2:20 AM on April 8, 2019 [5 favorites]
Once Mr Hipkins had finished asking for these rules to be broken the Speaker Trevor Mallard asked the House if there was any objection.Seymour is obviously trying to have it both ways: he wanted to be the one principled MP who stood up for parliamentary procedure, while at the same time not being the one guy who pointlessly delayed a bill that had pretty universal support. So he absented himself.
If one person objected then the leave would have been denied.
ACT Party Leader David Seymour had said he would object to this leave but was not in the chamber to do so at the time.
And the owner of Gun City told the Finance and Expenditure Committee that "dozens if not hundreds" of "firearms similar to that used in the Christchurch mosque attacks have been sold since15 March." Just think of that: so many people whose reaction to a massacre is "Wow, I had better get me one of those guns before I miss my chance".
posted by Joe in Australia at 2:20 AM on April 8, 2019 [5 favorites]
Just think of that: so many people whose reaction to a massacre is "Wow, I had better get me one of those guns before I miss my chance".
As an American, I am unsurprised.
posted by Going To Maine at 7:37 AM on April 8, 2019 [5 favorites]
As an American, I am unsurprised.
posted by Going To Maine at 7:37 AM on April 8, 2019 [5 favorites]
Me either, but it's still fucking sad that there are people like that.
posted by tavella at 8:06 AM on April 8, 2019
posted by tavella at 8:06 AM on April 8, 2019
I'm a little confused, too; isn't the new law going to require those new AR-15 purchasers hand their new murder toys right back? Or sell them back, rather? Are they hoping they'll be able to illegally keep the guns? I gotta think the list of recent purchasers would be the first place the government would start to verify compliance.
posted by Nelson at 8:22 AM on April 8, 2019
posted by Nelson at 8:22 AM on April 8, 2019
Yes it does, sadly they may even be paid full price for them so evil-gun-dealer-guy may get to keep his profit from all that, and we're all paying him
posted by mbo at 12:05 PM on April 8, 2019 [3 favorites]
posted by mbo at 12:05 PM on April 8, 2019 [3 favorites]
In my first link above at around 26:00 there was some discussion of the financing of a buyback program, numbers mentioned going as high as NZ$300,000,000. (At today's 67.3 NZ¢/US$ and 60 NZ¢/€ exchange rates given by the first external link in the NZ$ Wikipedia article, US$201,900,000 or €180,000,000.)
Quantities of weapons were ~14,000 Military Style Semi-Automatics (MSSAs) and “many more” sporting-configuration semi-automatics which can be converted to MSSAs with minimal effort. (Though later there was a discussion of inaccuracies in the estimation of numbers of firearms in private hands in NZ, so...)
posted by XMLicious at 3:24 PM on April 8, 2019
Quantities of weapons were ~14,000 Military Style Semi-Automatics (MSSAs) and “many more” sporting-configuration semi-automatics which can be converted to MSSAs with minimal effort. (Though later there was a discussion of inaccuracies in the estimation of numbers of firearms in private hands in NZ, so...)
posted by XMLicious at 3:24 PM on April 8, 2019
Seymour is obviously trying to have it both ways: he wanted to be the one principled MP who stood up for parliamentary procedure, while at the same time not being the one guy who pointlessly delayed a bill that had pretty universal support. So he absented himself.
Oh, it's better than that: he was heading to the chamber at the start of the day, and he got delayed because he was talking to the media about how he was going to vote against Hipkins' proposal. When Hipkins realised that Seymour wasn't in the chamber, he started speaking faster, so he could get through all the required wording, and the vote could pass, knowing it had the support of all the other parties.
If this seems unfair, bells ring very loudly throughout the parliamentary precinct ahead of the start of each sitting day - it would have been impossible for him not to have known that he was on a deadline.
(All that said: the cynic in me wonders if he deliberately took too long talking to media, for the same reasons that Joe in Australia suggested - standing up for procedure (and for his libertarian gun nut voters) and not pointlessly delaying a bill). And it certainly got him some publicity.
posted by Pink Frost at 5:48 PM on April 8, 2019 [6 favorites]
Oh, it's better than that: he was heading to the chamber at the start of the day, and he got delayed because he was talking to the media about how he was going to vote against Hipkins' proposal. When Hipkins realised that Seymour wasn't in the chamber, he started speaking faster, so he could get through all the required wording, and the vote could pass, knowing it had the support of all the other parties.
If this seems unfair, bells ring very loudly throughout the parliamentary precinct ahead of the start of each sitting day - it would have been impossible for him not to have known that he was on a deadline.
(All that said: the cynic in me wonders if he deliberately took too long talking to media, for the same reasons that Joe in Australia suggested - standing up for procedure (and for his libertarian gun nut voters) and not pointlessly delaying a bill). And it certainly got him some publicity.
posted by Pink Frost at 5:48 PM on April 8, 2019 [6 favorites]
Reading all this reminds me of my tourist visit to Parliament in Wellington and the overwhelming sense of how tidy and orderly everything is. Especially coming from the Trump-era US, which nominally has a similar democratic structure but is seriously off the rails. The New Zealand version seems quite enlightened. Of course politics are quite different in a nation of 4.8M people, less abstract and anonymous. I can totally imagine that chat, those bells, the legislator deciding "nah, I'm just going to sit this one out."
posted by Nelson at 6:09 PM on April 8, 2019
posted by Nelson at 6:09 PM on April 8, 2019
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posted by hippybear at 10:10 PM on March 14, 2019 [22 favorites]