Safer boozing through chemistry

March 26, 2019 3:59 AM

A team in London, led by David Nutt, is developing a synthetic alcohol substitute for beverages. Named Alcarelle, the synthetic molecule will bind to the Gaba receptors in the brain, giving the effect of tipsiness caused by alcohol, whilst not metabolising into the byproducts that cause hangovers and increase risks of cancer, stroke or heart disease. The design of the molecule will also allow a peak effect to be built in, regulating the amount of inebriation possible, and opening the possibility of variants for different situations, from parties to business lunches.

David Nutt was previously in the news as the head of UK drug policy sacked for his tabloid-unfriendly advocacy of evidence-based policies; among other things, he claimed that alcohol is more harmful than heroin or crack cocaine.

posted by acb (68 comments total)

I think that synthehol Alcarelle will heightens one's appreciation for the genuine article.
posted by Foci for Analysis at 4:27 AM on March 26, 2019 [9 favorites]

David's book "Drugs Without The Hot Air" is a really good read for some truth about drugs.
posted by robotmachine at 4:32 AM on March 26, 2019 [1 favorite]

opening the possibility of variants for different situations, from parties to business lunches

The first thing this actually made me think, though, was that it might weirdly make it possible for drinking to be a *viable* treatment for some kinds of anxiety. Benzos are great for certain situations, but have similar problems to getting drunk when you actually want to be out and sociable--at least for me, the anterograde amnesia is actually a plus for at the dentist, but a serious negative for social events. But alcohol is really hard to consume in a way that you hit "relaxed" and stay there, obviously. It seems like that has some huge practical potential.
posted by Sequence at 4:37 AM on March 26, 2019 [16 favorites]

Forsyth sees the fact that you can never get drunk on Alcarelle as an enticing marketing angle

And you lost me.

More seriously, is this actually real?
posted by Literaryhero at 4:42 AM on March 26, 2019

Is drunkenness a desirable goal for many drinkers, or just the price one pays for the period of copacetic merriness along the way? Because if the latter, then eliminating it would be a good thing.

(By “drunk”, I'm imagining staggering, sensory impairment, aggression/paranoia/melancholic self-pity, vomiting, and the like, rather than feeling relaxed, chatting, flirting and forgetting that one can't dance/speak a language one sort of knows a little of.)
posted by acb at 4:47 AM on March 26, 2019 [20 favorites]

I wonder how Alcarelle compares to GHB?

It's an interesting idea but to be honest I can't see this overcoming the regulatory and cultural hurdles to success in the US. Does he have patent protection, and if not, whats to prevent an entity like multinational beer & spirits Diageo from stepping in with economies of scale once he gets going?
posted by exogenous at 4:53 AM on March 26, 2019 [2 favorites]

Surely the US would be easier to get this to market in than the EU, with its precautionary principle. Unless you mean that rampant regulatory capture has turned regulation into a way for incumbents to eliminate potential challenges.
posted by acb at 5:00 AM on March 26, 2019

Scotty does not approve.
posted by octothorpe at 5:02 AM on March 26, 2019 [5 favorites]

He believes that the alcohol industry would embrace Alcarelle just as Coca-Cola has embraced the zero-calorie sweetener stevia

Ugh.

Nutt has long been developing a holy grail of molecules – also referred to as “alcosynth” – that will provide the relaxing and socially lubricating qualities of alcohol

"...sharpen you up and make you ready for a bit of the old ultraviolence."
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 5:04 AM on March 26, 2019 [28 favorites]

I have a fundamental comprehension problem when it comes to things like this. I cannot understand why anyone would bother. I also expect it will cause unexpected forms of cancer, eating issues, psychological side effects, respiratory distress, and many wonderful flavors of death. And being in recovery for some decades, I have seen so many people who have sought inebriation all their lives try desperately to cling to some form of inebriation, or some form of the ceremonial trappings of inebriation, in the face of the frequent evidence that if you have tried and failed over and over again to do it successfully, it might just be easier and more productive to refrain.

Just one of my many character flaws. Don't mind me.
posted by Peach at 5:11 AM on March 26, 2019 [11 favorites]

Random non-scientist thoughts:
- This might be popular with populations that can't metabolise ethanol comfortably (alcohol flush reaction, etc.).
- If it makes people tipsy, can it be detected in a breathalyzer test (probably not ...)?
Anyway, I think it's a good idea. Many people want to be social, without doing the whole alcohol thing.
posted by carter at 5:13 AM on March 26, 2019 [6 favorites]

The design of the molecule will also allow a peak effect to be built in, regulating the amount of inebriation possible, and opening the possibility of variants for different situations, from parties to business lunches.

Experienced drinkers who are not alcoholics already manage this. I know exactly how much regular alcohol I have to drink to achieve various desired results while trading off the side effects.

The people who fail at moderating their alcohol are usually people who fail at moderating in general so you can expect any regulatory mechanism of this molecule to be overridden by the reckless users anyway.
posted by srboisvert at 5:16 AM on March 26, 2019 [5 favorites]

Is drunkenness a desirable goal for many drinkers

yes
posted by thelonius at 5:22 AM on March 26, 2019 [19 favorites]

LESS TALK! MORE SYNTHAHOL!
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 5:35 AM on March 26, 2019 [11 favorites]

I wonder how Alcarelle compares to GHB?

Same. Specifically, I wonder what happens when you combine Alcarelle and alcohol. Because that will happen.
posted by murphy slaw at 5:37 AM on March 26, 2019 [16 favorites]

I much more want basically the reverse of this: a non-toxic, non-inebriating substance that tastes like alcohol. Because alcohol actually is part of the overall flavor of drinks, and you can't get non-alcoholic versions to taste quite right.
posted by Zarkonnen at 5:45 AM on March 26, 2019 [29 favorites]

byproducts that cause hangovers and increase risks of cancer, stroke or heart disease

Always love this one - my first question is always: What NEW byproducts is your shiny new thing introducing? What are it's long term effects and ramifications on the body?
posted by jkaczor at 5:50 AM on March 26, 2019 [12 favorites]

I wonder what happens when you combine Alcarelle and alcohol.

Whatever it is, I hope they call it Crunkahol.
posted by Strange Interlude at 5:51 AM on March 26, 2019 [17 favorites]

That's why I only drink pure grain alcohol and rain water.
posted by cmfletcher at 5:53 AM on March 26, 2019 [33 favorites]

Surely the US would be easier to get this to market in than the EU, with its precautionary principle. Unless you mean that rampant regulatory capture has turned regulation into a way for incumbents to eliminate potential challenges.

I did not intend to compare US and the EU — I know a little about the relevant US law and regulations (obviously an important market if Alcarelle is to achieve commercial success), but next to nothing about the situation in the EU. I wouldn't be surprised if it's even a tougher task to gain approval there. The article says "Alcarelle will probably be regulated as a food additive or an ingredient" which I find difficult to believe and reminds me of this comment.
posted by exogenous at 6:08 AM on March 26, 2019 [1 favorite]

Whatever it is, I hope they call it Crunkahol.

Synth-drank?

Synth-urp?
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 6:19 AM on March 26, 2019 [4 favorites]

What Zarkonnen said.
posted by crush at 6:23 AM on March 26, 2019

Calling this anything other than Synthehol is a travesty. You're supposed to be scientists, for christ's sake.
posted by Navelgazer at 6:27 AM on March 26, 2019 [19 favorites]

"Alcarelle" makes it sound like flavorless cookies, individually wrapped, offered to me by my grandmother.
posted by entropone at 6:32 AM on March 26, 2019 [13 favorites]

I'm wondering about the taste and then the long-term effects. Mostly the taste. I can taste fake sugar and I don't like it. Even the natural ones like Stevia. Ugh. Gross. I assume that this Alcarelle will have a similar strange taste or aftertaste.
posted by SaharaRose at 6:40 AM on March 26, 2019 [1 favorite]

Or, if the "e" is not silent, "Alcarelle" sounds like a pasta shape.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 6:40 AM on March 26, 2019 [4 favorites]

The people who fail at moderating their alcohol are usually people who fail at moderating in general so you can expect any regulatory mechanism of this molecule to be overridden by the reckless users anyway.

Sorry, but both parts of this are wrong: Not everyone with a drinking problem or other type of addiction has a general "addictive personality" where they'll abuse anything that creates pleasure; some do, but in my experience (i.e. several years of regularly attending AA meetings), most aren't multi-addicted. There's always the danger of developing another addiction, which is one of the reasons why I stay away from casinos or so-called legal highs. (The basic reason why I'm in recovery is to find ways not to do my drug of choice, which is why I'm going to give this a pass.) And you can't just "override" the actions of a molecule; if it doesn't press the same button as alcohol, it doesn't.
posted by Halloween Jack at 6:41 AM on March 26, 2019 [18 favorites]

I know how this story goes. I’ll drink the mutant alcohol to reach “pleasantly tipsy,” at which point it will sound like a great idea to open up some real wine and/or order a large pepperoni pizza. Maybe there’s a more disciplined population out there, though!
posted by sallybrown at 6:47 AM on March 26, 2019 [8 favorites]

Will it still taste disgusting?
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 6:51 AM on March 26, 2019 [1 favorite]

Whatever it is, I hope they call it Crunkahol.

Alltohell.
posted by pracowity at 7:00 AM on March 26, 2019 [11 favorites]

College me would have been all over this, because college me loved feeling a bit tipsy, but not any farther along the spectrum, and the idea of maintaining that tipsy buzz all evening would have been great! (I do not seem to have a lot of space between no effect -- tipsy -- asleep, and never have.)

"I much more want basically the reverse of this: a non-toxic, non-inebriating substance that tastes like alcohol. "

Yeah, me too. I love the taste of wine, but my body is no longer so fond of the alcohol part, between aging and seasonal allergies and having three small children. I don't mind skipping beer and hard liquor and everything else, but sometimes I'd really like a second glass of wine after dinner! But I don't like tossing and turning all night because alcohol makes my sleep restless. Every now and then it's a really nice wine and I do have the second glass and then at 3 a.m. I'm wide awake, staring at the ceiling, going "Was this wine really good enough to justify a 3 a.m. wake-up?"
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 7:07 AM on March 26, 2019 [3 favorites]

It's really a drug disguised to be acceptable to anti-drug pro alcohol culture. What does it really have in common with drinking other than how it's dispensed and explained?
posted by Obscure Reference at 7:08 AM on March 26, 2019 [16 favorites]

On Friday night I went to a sports bar with friends and drank a mere 3 drinks more quickly than I thought I did, and I wound up barfing on the sidewalk afterward. It's not that I'm a crazy lush - quite the opposite. I don't drink a whole lot these days because I'm getting older and my physical tolerance is going down and hangovers are getting worse and pot is more fun anyway. But if I could actually GUARANTEE that a night of a few drinks would never, through an accident of digestion or dehydration or whatever, make me barf or give me a hangover or take me past 'buzzed' into 'messy' - hell, why WOULDN'T I want that?
posted by showbiz_liz at 7:08 AM on March 26, 2019 [10 favorites]

Our culture is so pro-alcohol, it's weird to see it here though. There is no other substance that culture is so roundly A+ on. I wonder if this would catch on or be mocked like Zima.
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 7:12 AM on March 26, 2019

SCIENTISTS DEVELOP NEW SYNTHETIC FORM OF ALCOHOL TO FUCK YOU UP BETTER

cancer: still uncured
posted by delfin at 7:20 AM on March 26, 2019 [9 favorites]

- This might be popular with populations that can't metabolise ethanol comfortably (alcohol flush reaction, etc.).

I know somebody who seems to be allergic to alcohol. She can't even eat food prepared with it ("oh the alcohol all cooks off", no it fucking doesn't) without getting sick. There's definitely a market there.
posted by Pope Guilty at 7:21 AM on March 26, 2019

If it's mind altering and pleasurable, and it is not alcohol, how does it avoid getting placed on the list of scheduled drugs? (USA) Alcohol is out of the black market by tradition and even it had its period of being trapped in the black market. Marijuana is crawling out of the black market slowly, because it's a common and familiar plant-based product with a large constituency. But if there's a substance made in a lab, and people use it for fun, it's only ever going to be distributed on the black market. Its category is with all those party drugs with acronym names like X or GHB, not with booze. And the more public this guy is in his research, the quicker his new molecule will make it onto the list of prohibited substances.
posted by elizilla at 7:23 AM on March 26, 2019 [4 favorites]

A friend of mine has become a connoisseur of alcohol-free beer, for medical reasons; he's English and used to drink socially as is the custom in England, though cannot have any significant quantity of alcohol now, but still is partial to beer in a social setting. I imagine that if this works, people in his situation may be in the market for it.
posted by acb at 7:26 AM on March 26, 2019 [1 favorite]

I think I would totally drink this, it does sound fun. But you know, I think I'll wait 30 years first, just to make sure it doesn't fuck up your brain, nervous system, digestion.....

I don't even know how you get human trials for this past the ethics committee though?
posted by stillnocturnal at 7:26 AM on March 26, 2019

Their plan is to develop a novel psychoactive recreational drug and sell it as a food product. This is an incredibly dumb idea for a large number of reasons.

The properties that make GABAergic drugs fun are the same properties that make them prone to abuse. You can’t have one effect without the other. You could develop a partial agonist that moderates the effect, i.e., makes it only a little fun and a little addictive. But then you’re still introducing a novel addictive drug to the market and selling it for recreational use. Drugs that have abuse potential must have medically beneficial effects that justify the risk. “It’s fun” is not a medically beneficial effect.

The trend, at least in the U.S., has been to decrease the threshold at which a drug is considered to have abuse potential. For example, pregabalin is scheduled, whereas gapapentin is not, and the only reason is that pregabalin was approved more recently. You will never, ever get approval from the FDA to sell a novel drug with known abuse potential over the counter, much less as a goddamn food product. Alcohol, nicotine, caffeine (and more recently marijuana in some places) have been grandfathered in because they’re derived from natural products and are too culturally established to effectively abolish. The door was shut to novel recreational drugs a long time ago.

But let’s assume there’s some kind of magical pharmacological property, hitherto unknown to science, that makes Alcarelle fun without causing any risk of abuse. It’s still a psychoactive drug. There is no regulatory framework in place that would allow you to sell a novel psychoactive substance without FDA approval (unless your plan is to go graymarket, sell it in head shops, and hope no one notices), and no precedent for the FDA approving one without medical benefit. It’s not gonna happen.

And that’s a good thing, because biologically active substances inevitably have side effects, sometimes unpredictable ones. What effect will Alcarelle have on a fetus? How will the pharmacokinetics change in people with hepatic or renal impairment? Does it interact with other drugs, and if so, how do you prevent said interactions if there’s no doctor or pharmacist in the loop? What will happen when you give a GABA partial agonist to an active alcoholic with high tolerance? (hint: acute withdrawal, which can be deadly)

There are so many levels of dumb to this idea that it’s hard to even address them all.
posted by dephlogisticated at 7:27 AM on March 26, 2019 [18 favorites]

If it's mind altering and pleasurable, and it is not alcohol, how does it avoid getting placed on the list of scheduled drugs?

That's a good call. Under UK law, as of a few years ago, it'd be by definition an Evil Drug, like every mood-altering substance other than the regulatory carve-outs for alcohol, tea, coffee and cheese.
posted by acb at 7:27 AM on March 26, 2019 [3 favorites]

Alcohol is pissed out by starch/sugar eating yeast and is essentially free.

And still I can't get a fucking pint of cider in a bar for under $9.

Somehow I doubt this Synthohol is going to be anywhere near the price point (hysterical laughter), especially during its patent period.

So maybe somedayyyy... it'll wend its way through issues of legality and you'll be able to buy it at a bar, but the drinks are going to be expensive as fuck.
posted by seanmpuckett at 7:27 AM on March 26, 2019 [1 favorite]

In my hope, they didn’t name it Synthehol (tm) so that people can call the whole class of fake alcohol molecules that may be coming down the pipeline synthehols
posted by Jon_Evil at 7:29 AM on March 26, 2019 [2 favorites]

Most of the price of alcoholic beverages is excise taxes. If this substance is recognised as a beneficial alternative to alcohol, it could be that these do not apply to the same extent.
posted by acb at 7:30 AM on March 26, 2019

Alcohol is pissed out by starch/sugar eating yeast and is essentially free. And still I can't get a fucking pint of cider in a bar for under $9.

Brew your own! Cider is especially easy - if you don't mind some funky flavors you can just let it happen by itself, or you undertake the extra work to add a "clean" yeast.
posted by exogenous at 7:34 AM on March 26, 2019 [1 favorite]

Eh, I do brew my own. I got jugs fermenting in the pantry right now. I've actually got some champagne yeast in filtered orange juice because mimosas. It's really good if you like dry & sour.
posted by seanmpuckett at 7:41 AM on March 26, 2019 [1 favorite]

Victory Productivity Gin
posted by The Card Cheat at 7:42 AM on March 26, 2019 [10 favorites]

You will never, ever get approval from the FDA to sell a novel drug with known abuse potential over the counter, much less as a goddamn food product.

If you can convince the booze conglomerates that they stand to profit enough to hire lobbyists and pr firms, you totally can get it approved.
posted by Jon_Evil at 7:43 AM on March 26, 2019 [1 favorite]

Humans have been inventing new ways to get loaded for several millennia, good to see the trend continue.

But as The Sisko said: You can brag all you want, but don't get between me and the blood wine!
posted by BeeDo at 8:37 AM on March 26, 2019 [3 favorites]

Will this be the vaping of drinking?

And, if so, I'll probably test the waters for a hot minute and then decide I like the old stuff better.
posted by coolxcool=rad at 8:40 AM on March 26, 2019

Many people want to be social, without doing the whole alcohol thing.

I thought that was what weed was for.
posted by sexyrobot at 8:46 AM on March 26, 2019 [4 favorites]

Productivity Gin

Or a coding beer optimised to take you to the Ballmer Peak and keep you there.
posted by acb at 8:48 AM on March 26, 2019 [2 favorites]

you can never get drunk on Alcarelle

Hold my beer
posted by soundofsuburbia at 9:05 AM on March 26, 2019 [5 favorites]

Given that people definitely do want drugs, it doesn’t seem like a bad idea to do serious research into developing new drugs which have reduced harms, individually and societally, and which have less potential for abuse.

David Nutt wrote an interesting book about drug policy which managed to be simultaneously radical, in that following his suggestions would completely overhaul UK drug policy, and kind of boringly obvious; i.e. the idea that drug addiction should be treated primarily as a medical problem not a criminal problem. Or that alcohol does far more social harm in the UK than illegal drugs do.

This kind of radical common sense got him fired as the government drug adviser, and the politics of the thing may mean that his quest to produce synthohol will end up being equally quixotic. But I think it’s worth a try. I’d certainly be tempted by a pill that got me consistently to the slightly less than two drinks level of tipsiness with reduced side effects, if such a thing could be achieved.
posted by Bloxworth Snout at 9:14 AM on March 26, 2019 [4 favorites]

I like this guy and appreciate what he's trying to do.

I think he'll probably be unsuccessful, but not because what he's trying for isn't a noble goal, but because we live in a shitty, fallen world full of terrible substance regulation designed by people who, if they aren't manifestly terrible human beings, at least playact at it for the purposes of creating those regulations.

There are lots of drugs that have lower abuse potential than alcohol, do less physiological damage than alcohol, and have a far larger gap between a recreational dose and a fatal dose. They're all illegal. Because you can't let the proles have fun, duh. If it's fun, and it doesn't poison you, it's gonna be illegal. Because that's how our society works: the unwashed masses are allowed to work, and fuck, and make more workers, and drown their sorrows using a handful of substances that share the intriguing commonality of killing you in really awful ways if you use too much of them. Because that's the point, you see: all fun must come at a cost. Can't have alcohol without the hangover. No joy without suffering.

Moreover, in addition to the neo-Puritan no-fun brigade, he'll also have entrenched opposition from the alcohol companies. In the US we've seen them push back against cannabis legalization just because it might displace alcohol sales. I can only imagine how hard they'd go after something that literally targets alcohol.

I just don't know what the successful strategy would be. Cannabis is only being grudgingly legalized after almost a century of failed, yet still brutally-enforced prohibitionist policies; if that's the model, his kids are unlikely to even see the day his product (if it works perfectly and ideally) isn't a felony to possess.

But maybe he has more faith in humanity than I do. If he can imagine himself being successful, given the time he's spent working in government, who am I to say he's wrong? I wish him the best. But I think he's either a century or two late, or a century or two early.
posted by Kadin2048 at 9:16 AM on March 26, 2019 [7 favorites]

Metafilter: Many wonderful flavors of death
posted by Greg_Ace at 9:36 AM on March 26, 2019 [2 favorites]

Are people seriously not seeing the potential here for the huge alcohol companies to team up with like, M.A.D.D. and sell this as them "atoning for their sins?"

All he needs to do is sell this for 8 figures to anheuser busch

They're not idiots, they themselves are getting in on legal weed already. Imagine how good the marketing for this would make them look
posted by emptythought at 9:55 AM on March 26, 2019 [2 favorites]

Sounds pleasant! Reminds me of one of my favorite quotations:

“It's unpleasantly like being drunk."
"What's so unpleasant about being drunk?"
"You ask a glass of water.”

posted by batter_my_heart at 10:21 AM on March 26, 2019 [10 favorites]

this is great, i love to drink, i love to get buzzed, i hate to get ACTUALLY DRUNK though. trust me there is a market for this.
posted by capnsue at 10:34 AM on March 26, 2019 [3 favorites]

Those of us who used to hang out on places like Bluelight know that there are a number of other short-chain alcohols that have an intoxicating effect, and there are people who will swear that some of them are preferable to ethanol. However they tend to have side effects like "making you smell like a chemical spill" so few of them seem likely to catch on.

I'm not sure the path for novel or newly-popularized psychoactives has to always look exactly the same. Kratom still seems to be around, which has a least a little to do with the contingent lobbying for it with the idea that it is to opioids what this is supposed to be for booze. But it's also been on the edge of being scheduled for years. Salvia divinorum never did get federally scheduled in the U.S. but that has something to do with the assessment that it's not actually pleasant enough to catch on widely.
posted by atoxyl at 11:03 AM on March 26, 2019

PSEUDO-DRUNK ON SCIENCE LIQUOR IN THE YEAR 2019
posted by prize bull octorok at 11:25 AM on March 26, 2019 [5 favorites]

Donald Trump called. He wants his FAKE BOOZE back.
posted by Snowishberlin at 12:51 PM on March 26, 2019

We are nowhere near the major futuristic devices from Star Trek (transporters, warp drive) but a lot of the minor future stuff has been achieved (communicator badges, phasers, tricorder-like hand-held gadgets) so a real-life version of Synthehol was inevitable. Now we need to start guessing what's next: transparent aluminum, food replicators or 'hard light' holograms.
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:12 PM on March 26, 2019

"and opening the possibility of variants for different situations, from parties to business lunches."

Yikes, it's already sketchy to use mind-altering drugs to grease business dealings, not sure I'm crazy about ones tailor made for that.
posted by GoblinHoney at 3:02 PM on March 26, 2019

no, bring on the business drugs, within a few generations the entire merchant class will be addle-brained mystics
posted by prize bull octorok at 3:14 PM on March 26, 2019 [2 favorites]

I vote for the replicators. If they can make indigestible left-handed cheesecake I will sell one nut and a kidney to get one.

The synthehol—I’ll let the early adopters check it out for a while.
posted by Gilgamesh's Chauffeur at 5:24 PM on March 26, 2019 [1 favorite]

If they can make indigestible left-handed cheesecake I will sell one nut and a kidney to get one.

Left-handed cheesecake would almost certainly taste nothing like regular cheesecake, for exactly the same reasons it's indigestible.
posted by shponglespore at 3:37 PM on March 28, 2019 [1 favorite]

So alcohol works on GABA, as benzodiapines do? and Ambien? I guess the difference is -- what? location of molecules in the brain? different areas?
posted by DMelanogaster at 6:34 AM on April 4, 2019