Charges dropped in 2015 Texas biker brawl that left nine dead
April 3, 2019 12:32 PM   Subscribe

 
American police are worse than useless.
posted by codacorolla at 12:37 PM on April 3, 2019 [5 favorites]


I was living pretty close to here when this happened, I hadn't realized they were still sorting it all out or that they just goof-troop arrested everyone who was present or worked there! That's incredibly foolish, and the gun-pile only adds to their seemingly incompetence.
posted by GoblinHoney at 12:38 PM on April 3, 2019


Of the 177 charged with engaging in organised criminal activity resulting in murder and aggravated assault, prosecutors later dropped charges against all but 155.

That “all but” is doing a lot of work, in my opinion.
posted by GenjiandProust at 12:43 PM on April 3, 2019 [57 favorites]


All but most of them? Can you say "all but any of them" to mean none?
posted by Sing Or Swim at 12:46 PM on April 3, 2019 [14 favorites]


"Brawl"

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
posted by runcibleshaw at 12:46 PM on April 3, 2019 [9 favorites]


This was a huge, complicated crime scene in a relatively small town. To adequately investigate and prosecute, Waco might have been bankrupted. It was inevitable that any quest for justice would be overwhelmed by the number of people involved, and the amount of money that Waco could spend on the cases.
posted by Midnight Skulker at 12:48 PM on April 3, 2019 [4 favorites]


This was a huge, complicated crime scene in a relatively small town. To adequately investigate and prosecute, Waco might have been bankrupted. It was inevitable that any quest for justice would be overwhelmed by the number of people involved, and the amount of money that Waco could spend on the cases.

And yet no expense is spared when it comes to doling out justice to people of colour or defending the police who are involved in shooting/murdering brown and black people.
posted by Fizz at 12:59 PM on April 3, 2019 [66 favorites]




This was a huge, complicated crime scene in a relatively small town. To adequately investigate and prosecute, Waco might have been bankrupted. It was inevitable that any quest for justice would be overwhelmed by the number of people involved, and the amount of money that Waco could spend on the cases.

Should have been Federalized, but I have no idea how jurisdiction works in such matters.
posted by Edgewise at 1:23 PM on April 3, 2019 [3 favorites]


That whole thing started to stink VERY early on. Lots of local analysis suggested that Reyna had a giant hard-on for the cases and wouldn't turn them loose; there were allegations of prosecutorial chicanery, etc.

Only one case -- the one against the Bandido president -- went to a jury, and it ended in a mistrial. The attorney who defended him is someone I knew a little from high school, which made the whole thing kind of interesting to watch.
posted by uberchet at 1:34 PM on April 3, 2019 [4 favorites]


The DPS (the Texas State Police) were there from the start. My impression of what happened, without re-reading the dozens of things I've read in the last few years about it, is that the large majority of people attending were not criminals, they were recreational riders. A fight started in the parking lot between criminal gang members, and the police, who were watching them from sniping positions, started shooting. No one has figured out who killed whom. The police then arrested everyone nearby who they didn't like the looks of, on generic, non specific charges, and held them in jail for weeks on unaffordable one million dollar bonds. If Waco is bankrupted it will be because of the lawsuits to come against the city.

I hate Harley Davidsons because they are obnoxiously noisy, but this business was way out of line.
posted by Bee'sWing at 1:43 PM on April 3, 2019 [14 favorites]


And yet no expense is spared when it comes to doling out justice to people of colour or defending the police who are involved in shooting/murdering brown and black people.

Funny how that is. Funny also how much less time it took to clear the cops.
posted by bile and syntax at 2:03 PM on April 3, 2019 [9 favorites]


So it's possible the police themselves started the shoot out and also shot some or many of the bikers? That's a wrinkle I had not heard before. I can see why they're not prosecuting.
posted by fshgrl at 2:06 PM on April 3, 2019 [7 favorites]


So it's possible the police themselves started the shoot out and also shot some or many of the bikers?
That's my impression. The police work was so badly handled that we may never know.
posted by Bee'sWing at 2:14 PM on April 3, 2019 [1 favorite]


177 people were arrested. One case went to trial, resulting in a hung jury. Charges have been dropped against all 177.
posted by Bee'sWing at 2:23 PM on April 3, 2019


If only there was some way of testing guns to see which ones have been recently fired. /hamburger
posted by benzenedream at 2:29 PM on April 3, 2019 [6 favorites]


I've been hoping to hear more about the retired cop that was arrested with the Bandidos. I don't think it's normal for a former vice detective to run with a 1%er MC and I don't think an outlaw motorcycle gang embraces retired cops without good reason.
posted by peeedro at 2:40 PM on April 3, 2019 [3 favorites]


What events like this do best; is boost sales of GoPros and the like.

Otherwise; what a massive waste of LEO and court system time and resources; and gads; I can't imagine my tax dollars paying for idiocy like this stuff.
posted by Afghan Stan at 3:15 PM on April 3, 2019


In isolation, it's clear the police and/or the DA (probably both) botched the hell out of all this. That's kind of a given. If in doubt, better to let the guilty go free than to punish the innocent. That's the principle.

But if you had a similar case against people of color and it was similarly botched, you can bet the system would have made convictions anyway. Rightly or wrongly. That's the double standard and that's what's so awful beyond this individual case.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 3:35 PM on April 3, 2019 [11 favorites]


If only there was some way of testing guns to see which ones have been recently fired.

I assume you're referring to examination for gunshot residue (GSR)? If so, while the lack of GSR can pretty conclusively demonstrate that a weapon hasn't been fired (since it's been cleaned), it would be difficult to demonstrate that it had at a particular time—it wouldn't be hard for someone to claim as a defense that they had fired the gun earlier in the day. AFAIK, GSR analysis doesn't give you a very specific timeframe, at least not the type of analysis that's available to local law enforcement in my area (which is pretty well-funded). You can check for GSR on hands and clothing, but it's still subject to the same defense (that you fired a gun recently or while wearing the same clothing or whatever, and on something like a motorcycle jacket that probably never gets washed, well, I'd be willing to be there's a lot of GSR hits).

Not-bad article about the current state of GSR analysis, for those interested. There are some emerging approaches that can provide time estimates, but I don't think they are widely used and I suspect there would be some real-world implementation difficulties given the variations of primer and propellant chemistry. Interestingly some of the machines look like the ones that have become common in airports looking for explosives; I wonder if that's driving the miniaturization of the systems.
posted by Kadin2048 at 4:05 PM on April 3, 2019 [4 favorites]


So it's almost 4 years now since this happened, and what with tort reform and all, most lawsuits have to be filed within 3?

Waiting so long to drop these charges might make more sense than it seemed to at first glance.
posted by jamjam at 4:34 PM on April 3, 2019 [3 favorites]


Yeah, modern guns are so corrosion resistant, and modern ammo so non-corrosive, that there is no reason to assume that guns have been cleaned since their last use. And, remember, some people shoot their guns 4 or 5 times a week.
posted by Bee'sWing at 4:56 PM on April 3, 2019


For those unfamiliar, Waco is the Florida of Texas.
posted by slagheap at 9:50 PM on April 3, 2019 [3 favorites]


The fact that the confiscation of weapons consisted of "indiscriminately tossing them into a large pile" would probably make it very difficult to demonstrate any particular person was in possession of it, even assuming they could trace a shooting to the weapon.
posted by WaylandSmith at 12:30 AM on April 4, 2019 [1 favorite]


What a fucking clown show from top to bottom!
posted by Homo neanderthalensis at 12:35 AM on April 4, 2019 [1 favorite]


So there was one group of organized criminals who arrived early, backed way out of personal danger whilst setting themselves up as judge, jury, and executioner with their sniper rifles. This is outrageous. Quite frankly, I'm amazed that these bikers haven't taken vengeance on these people who murdered their friends.

Or maybe it's just that they haven't taken their vengeance yet.

From what I can tell, bikers like the Bandidos and the Cossacks are tough people, with long memories, not people to be trifled with. And they were far more than trifled with here.

It seems that these particular cops have a lot in common with these bikers -- willingness to kill those that they disagree with topping the list, or even people who they don't like the way they look. But the bikers are willing to mix it up, get face to face, toe to toe with people they are disputing. Which is to say: They have personal courage. It is of course possible that the cops also have personal courage but just didn't show it here. I doubt that, but it is possible.

Had the cops gotten there early and mixed in with the people they disagree with and who they are (seems to me) afraid of, they could have calmed it down. "Hey guys, we see some trouble coming this way, and that can't happen here in Waco. I wish that it didn't have to happen anywhere. But we're bringing in a lot of our policemen and sherriffs and DPS (Department Public Safety -- Texas State Police) and we've even put in a call for some Rangers (Texas Rangers are cops on steroids, incredibly well trained, remarkably well armed, the trunk of a Rangers car contains enough weaponry and ammo to do pretty much anything might need to be done). Plus, we spoke to the army base right there across the road and they'll send us some people, too. So we can all just have us a nice day here. We don't want any trouble with you, you don't want any trouble with us -- let's just eat some hamburgers.

Instead, they set up on a grassy knoll and watched through their scopes, figuring out who they wanted to paste once the show started.

Criminals, for sure. Murderers.
posted by dancestoblue at 6:19 AM on April 4, 2019 [5 favorites]


finally... it's about time
posted by Nozz at 1:50 PM on April 4, 2019


What a fucking clown show from top to bottom!

If it was clowns, the bikes would've been a lot smaller... or all of them would've packed into one car.
posted by Jahaza at 1:59 PM on April 4, 2019 [1 favorite]


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