“Be a force for good, even when others aren’t.”

May 4, 2019 7:27 PM

Microsoft's Official Examples Of "Acceptable Trash Talk" Are A Joy [Kotaku] “Microsoft updated the company’s “Community Standards for Xbox” earlier this week, and while this is normally not news, the content is so damn wholesome that it’s worth a closer look. [...] The company has gone way beyond simply listing rules you should follow, and has provided a ton of examples of not just what you shouldn’t be doing on Xbox Live, but also what you could be doing if you want to be a cool and fun person to be around.”

To help make things even clearer, there is also a long list of examples of “trash talk”, and I love them even more, in a “90s educational/instructional video” kinda way.

Here’s some stuff Microsoft recommends you shouldn’t be saying online:

• Get [sexual threat]. Can’t believe you thought you were on my level.
• Hey [profanity], that was some serious potato aim. Get wrecked, trash.
• Only reason you went positive was you spent all game camping. KYS, kid.
• Cheap win. Totally expected from a {racial slur}.
• You suck. Get out of my country—maybe they’ll let you back in when your k/d’s over 1.

Not cool! Here, though, is some trash talk that is acceptable:

• Get destroyed. Can’t believe you thought you were on my level.
• That was some serious potato aim. Get wrecked.
• Only reason you went positive was you spent all game camping. Try again, kid.
• Cheap win. Come at me when you can actually drive without running cars off the road.
• That sucked. Get good and then come back when your k/d’s over 1.

posted by Fizz (101 comments total)

QQ
posted by Homo neanderthalensis at 7:39 PM on May 4, 2019 [3 favorites]

Metafilter: That was some serious potato aim!
posted by slater at 7:39 PM on May 4, 2019 [14 favorites]

Tag yourself I'm Serious Potato Aim
posted by bleep at 7:39 PM on May 4, 2019 [11 favorites]

I was just introduced to the Horace Mann quote, "Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for humanity." Besides being a nice sentiment, I find it an excellent version of the recently popularized, "Any man dies with a clean sword..."
posted by es_de_bah at 7:40 PM on May 4, 2019 [5 favorites]

Metafilter:
Metafilter: That was some serious potato aim!
posted by slater at 7:39 PM on May 4 [1 favorite +] [!]


Tag yourself I'm Serious Potato Aim
posted by bleep at 7:39 PM on May 4 [+] [!] Need to fix a typo? Edit
posted by bleep at 7:42 PM on May 4, 2019 [3 favorites]

Truly we are all potato aim.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 7:48 PM on May 4, 2019 [26 favorites]

I mean my general strategy in Fallout is "spray and pray" so yeah, the potato is strong in us.
posted by Homo neanderthalensis at 7:54 PM on May 4, 2019 [2 favorites]

Now if you excuse me- its time I finally beat Dagoth Ur into a pulp.
posted by Homo neanderthalensis at 7:58 PM on May 4, 2019 [3 favorites]

Are we sure its ok to say potato? I thought it was a reference to the "I can count to potato" meme which was insulting to the intellectually disabled.
posted by Pastor of Muppets at 8:05 PM on May 4, 2019 [6 favorites]

This reminds me of the book covers at my public school that told us comebacks to try if someone offered us drugs.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 8:30 PM on May 4, 2019 [6 favorites]

Microsoft, is this acceptable?
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 8:38 PM on May 4, 2019

I thought potato was a reference to potato quality, as in you must have shot this 240p video on a potato.
posted by Pruitt-Igoe at 8:43 PM on May 4, 2019 [9 favorites]

But whatever you do, never call anybody "Clippy".
posted by oneswellfoop at 8:49 PM on May 4, 2019 [5 favorites]

The very fact that the people at Microsoft apparently can't imagine people playing video games online without subjecting each other to random abuse is why I'm glad I never got into the XBox style of online gaming in the first place.
posted by Strange Interlude at 8:50 PM on May 4, 2019 [27 favorites]

Are we sure its ok to say potato? I thought it was a reference to the "I can count to potato" meme which was insulting to the intellectually disabled.

I was listening to the Giant Beastcast talk about these and I'm pretty sure Alex Navarro (The most Extremely Online duder) was trying to remember this meme. I think the "potato quality" meme would be more appropriate referring to a weapon than a player's aim, but I'm also not sure if this is meant to be a reference to the disabled.

Also: any love for not trash talking at all? It's a game and everyone ought to have fun without it being at anyone else's expense.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 8:53 PM on May 4, 2019 [9 favorites]

Killed Dagoth Ur. Carry on.
posted by Homo neanderthalensis at 8:59 PM on May 4, 2019 [3 favorites]

Maybe I just don't play the right (/wrong) kind of games, but even the "acceptable" ones seem idiotic to me. Nietzsche said it best:

An easy prey is something contemptible for proud natures. They feel good only at the sight of unbroken men who might become their enemies and at the sight of all possessions that are hard to come by. Against one who is suffering they are often hard because he is not worthy of their aspirations and pride; but they are doubly obliging towards their peers whom it would be honorable to fight if the occasion should ever arise. Spurred by the good feeling of this perspective, the members of the knightly caste became accustomed to treating each other with exquisite courtesy.

Also.
posted by A Thousand Baited Hooks at 9:07 PM on May 4, 2019 [10 favorites]

Yeah, another vote for no trash talking. "Yay, you managed to not include a racial slur" is a depressingly low bar.
posted by zompist at 9:25 PM on May 4, 2019 [34 favorites]

“Be a force for good, even when others aren’t.”

That will help us continue to focus primarily on profit! Why police our platform when we can cajole the users to do it for us?
posted by axiom at 9:33 PM on May 4, 2019 [2 favorites]

The potato bit doesn't refer to potato guns, which are generally pretty terrible for any sort of accuracy in aiming?
posted by eviemath at 9:45 PM on May 4, 2019 [8 favorites]

I assumed it was a reference to some food fight simulator game.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 10:08 PM on May 4, 2019

The real potato aim was the friends we made along the way.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 10:08 PM on May 4, 2019 [12 favorites]

The real friends are the potatoes we ate along the way.
posted by GenjiandProust at 10:15 PM on May 4, 2019 [9 favorites]

mmm potatoes.
posted by Homo neanderthalensis at 10:28 PM on May 4, 2019 [4 favorites]

A very quick Google turns up a 2015 reddit thread for a particular YouTuber who seems to have started the phrase. I haven't dug extensively but I'm not seeing any references prior to 2015 when this thread is from, so I think it's probably as good a term for someone who shoots bad in a video game as any.
posted by Caduceus at 10:33 PM on May 4, 2019 [1 favorite]

I like that Nietzsche quote ok, but mostly I'm just tumbling into the eponisterical spoonerism that is '1000 hated books.' forgive me. it's saturday night and I'm not the internet.
posted by es_de_bah at 10:37 PM on May 4, 2019 [1 favorite]

Here I was thinking “potato quality” came from basically references to Portal 2
posted by DoctorFedora at 10:54 PM on May 4, 2019 [2 favorites]

hardcore taters 2019
posted by roger ackroyd at 11:14 PM on May 4, 2019 [17 favorites]

Here I was thinking “potato quality” came from basically references to Portal 2

This was my understanding. Pratically everything out of Portal got meme-ified, and this was a particularly popular bit. For the uninitiated: The super-advanced AI, for plot reasons, gets pushed into a situation where she's linked to and being powered by a potato, which is obviously much lower quality of a power source than what she's used to. She sarcastically, miserably says "Oh, hi, how are you holding up, because I'm a potato." Potato became a reference to something much lower quality than would be ideal.
posted by gloriouslyincandescent at 11:22 PM on May 4, 2019 [17 favorites]

It's not my fault my aim is potato, I'm running the game on a potato, and my graphics are so potato I can barely see you!

I really like potatoes! And I hate my crappy PC!
posted by Dysk at 11:32 PM on May 4, 2019 [1 favorite]

I love the conversations I'm imagining went into making this list. In my head, they went something like this:

"Ohh, how about 'potato aim'? The kids are all about potato nowadays!"
"Yes, that's perfect, but can we combine it with 'get wrecked'? I heard my cousin's kid shouting that the other week."
[later]
"This is great, the kids will love it, but there are a few mistakes I have to correct. 'Wrecked' is spelled with a w and an ed. I don't even know what whoever wrote it like this was thinking!"
posted by Dysk at 11:39 PM on May 4, 2019 [3 favorites]

"Ham Doctor."
posted by MarchHare at 11:46 PM on May 4, 2019 [1 favorite]

Console trash talk will always be potato because you can't Alt+F4 ten people out of Alterac Valley.
posted by Brocktoon at 12:17 AM on May 5, 2019 [6 favorites]

Gaming trash talk that actually stung me: helpful advice I genuinely needed, offered in a tone of meticulously polite contempt.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 12:27 AM on May 5, 2019 [37 favorites]

When there is only one set of footprints in the sand, the potato was carrying you.
posted by Keith Talent at 12:44 AM on May 5, 2019 [16 favorites]

I have won. In this instance my skills, as well as the serendipitous events of the match, led to me gaining a higher score than you. Perhaps with more developed skills, or better luck, you will be able to gain a score higher than mine in some future match.
posted by Meatbomb at 1:16 AM on May 5, 2019 [21 favorites]

Perhaps with more developed skills, or better luck, you will be able to gain a score higher than mine in some future match, scrub.
posted by Dysk at 1:31 AM on May 5, 2019 [7 favorites]

Fellow player, that was certainly a suboptimal move. We will both look back on it and laugh one day.

For me, that day is now.
posted by GenjiandProust at 2:17 AM on May 5, 2019 [60 favorites]

As a relative novice to Xbox voice chat protocol, it strikes me that although helpful on some other topics, these instructions seem to be surprisingly lacking in acceptable phraseology for the most crucial subject of discussion, i.e. one's opponent's mother.
posted by automatronic at 2:50 AM on May 5, 2019 [3 favorites]

Hey [profanity]

This is a poem.
posted by srboisvert at 2:54 AM on May 5, 2019 [8 favorites]

Also those examples of acceptable trash talk are like 100% “this dude is clearly a cop”
posted by DoctorFedora at 3:18 AM on May 5, 2019 [8 favorites]

Also yeah the most powerful trash talk I have witnessed (secondhand) was basically “you didn’t have to keep doing the same thing over and over that I kept punishing”

Actual advice is the sickest burn of all
posted by DoctorFedora at 3:22 AM on May 5, 2019 [2 favorites]

The potato disability meme is "count to potato".

This reminds me of the book covers at my public school that told us comebacks to try if someone offered us drugs.

"Take your potato drugs elsewhere, good sir!"
posted by clawsoon at 3:51 AM on May 5, 2019 [1 favorite]

(The girl in the "count to potato" meme now works in a children's hair salon, has a boyfriend and lives independently in her own flat.)
posted by clawsoon at 3:54 AM on May 5, 2019 [12 favorites]

Hate will find a way. Surely somebody will repurpose some innocent word or emoji into a statement of extreme hatred, conflating genocide, subhumanisation, sexual accusations and over-the-top sexual threats, and everyone will be heatedly throwing the word “shoehorn” or “tapir” or whatever around, and knowing exactly what it expands to.

Perhaps Microsoft should have instead developed a code, with a number of core statements such as “your aim sucks”, “how mistaken I was to think you were a worthy adversary”, “go back to playing Solitaire” or similar, each with a possible 1-5 intensity score (perhaps rationed by a budget, so you don't just send a 5 to everyone?) and leave it at that. Which should hold out until some trolls persuade everyone else to look for racial slurs in Morse code or something.
posted by acb at 4:23 AM on May 5, 2019 [2 favorites]

Leave taters out of this
posted by overeducated_alligator at 5:02 AM on May 5, 2019 [2 favorites]

srboisvert:
Hey [profanity]

This is a poem.

Tell me, do you think it would be all right
If you just got off this server and tried to find one for crustaceans who never evolved thumbs who you might have a decent chance against in skill level
You see you're in no shape for playing
Because you have no skills to go...
posted by Xiphias Gladius at 5:07 AM on May 5, 2019 [5 favorites]

People have been referring to slow computers as "potatoes" for well over 20 years now. It's derived from the science experiments where you make a battery from a potato. It's low-powered and impractical, but it works.

So when someone takes forever to load into a game, or they're lagging and dropping frames, it's because their computer is powered by a potato. Or is a potato.

Just seems like it's taken on a bit of semantic drift, but I've still seen people as recently as this year talking about needing to "upgrade their potato" in reference to their computer.
posted by explosion at 5:15 AM on May 5, 2019 [1 favorite]

I have evaluated
the tactics
that you use in
this video game

and which
you were probably
pleased
to display online

Forgive me
they were potato
so cheap
so get wrecked
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 6:20 AM on May 5, 2019 [53 favorites]

“Only reason you went positive was you spent all game swingin' on the flippity-flop. Try again cob nobbler.”

It’s like they didn’t have one NYT writer from the 90s who had vaguely heard about Seattle on their team.
posted by bibliowench at 6:27 AM on May 5, 2019 [4 favorites]

my name is potato, gamer of gamers
look upon my l33t skillz and despair
nothing but gibs remain. round the reck etc etc
posted by phooky at 6:30 AM on May 5, 2019 [2 favorites]

my name is n00b
n00b is my name
and wen Ich tayke
potayto aim

and wen the net
losst not connect
Ich tayke mine shotte
and Ich get rekt
posted by pykrete jungle at 6:47 AM on May 5, 2019 [15 favorites]

PO-TAY-TOES!
Boil 'em, mash 'em, stick 'em in a stew! Don't use for aim, you video gamin' newb!
posted by nubs at 7:08 AM on May 5, 2019 [6 favorites]

Back when League of Legends was still using The Tribunal (basically a jury of peers) to evaluate reports for toxicity, the community of LoL players who participated in the Tribunal widely considered "gg ez" to be a punishable offence. So, LoL players had higher standards for sportsmanship than Microsoft does.
posted by tobascodagama at 7:18 AM on May 5, 2019 [2 favorites]

The lack of voice chat in Splatoon has resulted in some pretty inventive taunting. I think my favourite is the "hold the sub weapon button down so your character appears to have a raised fist, then flail the controller about so you head bang."
posted by lucidium at 7:19 AM on May 5, 2019 [6 favorites]

GLaDOS as a potato. Portal 2 is from 2011 and certainly seems to be the origin of the gamer potato meme to me. It has a funny in-game origin too; you run across a science fair with potato battery projects first and then (spoilers) GLaDOS is forced into a portable core powered by a potato.

I don't like trash talking in games; even when it's not actively offensive it still seems cruel coming from strangers. (Trash talk between friends is a different thing.) I briefly experimented with trying to mess with my opponents in League of Legends with trash talk; basically harass them in public chat every time they make a mistake. It was remarkably easy and effective. I could either make them so distracted typing comebacks that they'd do badly in the game or sometimes put them up on tilt entirely. Then I realized how awful and monstrous that felt and stopped.
posted by Nelson at 8:02 AM on May 5, 2019

The real friends are the potatoes we ate along the way.

“Get baked!”
posted by Fizz at 8:12 AM on May 5, 2019 [2 favorites]

Nthing that the best form of trash talking is just explaining to someone why they have lost, and what particular skills of your own have made it so.

But this is really just based on playing Mario Kart in person - I never enjoyed LAN parties or online collaborative gaming because games were where I was going to get away from other people.
posted by aspersioncast at 8:18 AM on May 5, 2019

Lots of common taters in this thread.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 8:19 AM on May 5, 2019 [3 favorites]

I mean, I’d trash talk in games, but I would make a hash of it.
posted by nubs at 8:34 AM on May 5, 2019 [3 favorites]

I’m that person who still unironically writes “gg all” after a game.

This is me also. gg always, and a wp of someone put up a good fight or smashed me. Nothing brings out salt from teammates like complimenting a killer who just crushed your team in Dead By Daylight but you know what, if they played well then why the hell not tip your hat to them for it?
posted by Dysk at 8:37 AM on May 5, 2019 [2 favorites]

I'm imagining most of these examples in Captain Holt's voice; it's making me want to hear more trash talk.

And yes, Horde side of Alterac Valley always devolved into blame and the besmirching of mothers. Getting a hostile teammate to unwittingly Alt-F4 themselves out of the match was rare but delicious.
posted by brism at 9:02 AM on May 5, 2019 [1 favorite]

I always do "gg". But there's a world of difference between "gg" or "gg all" and "gg ez". There's no non-insulting interpretation of the latter, at least when it's done in all chat instead of team chat.
posted by tobascodagama at 9:06 AM on May 5, 2019 [2 favorites]

Metafilterers(?) could clearly take these kids to school on clever jibes and jabs.
posted by shorstenbach at 9:40 AM on May 5, 2019

shoehorn a spud, tapir
posted by flabdablet at 10:08 AM on May 5, 2019 [3 favorites]

Still not going to get me into anything multiplayer.
posted by GenderNullPointerException at 10:29 AM on May 5, 2019

I'm not good at video games, and I'm never going to be good at them. I just don't have the time and emotional energy to devote to it.

I wish I knew of online games that could work for gamers, like me. I want to play, and I want it to be okay when I spend a whole battle trying to hit people with a magic item rather than a sword, and I want to have the chance to find my way out of the corner I've been trapped in for the past five minutes without anyone yelling at me or calling me names. I want to feel safe to have fun with my incompetence, dagnabit.
posted by meese at 10:35 AM on May 5, 2019

GLaDOS having to upload herself to a potato is a reference to the potato meme which already existed long before Portal 2. The origin of that is that you can use a potato to make a battery or clock, but it's really low power. When someone takes a long time to load into a game, people accuse them of playing the game on a computer made from a potato. C.F. Toaster.
posted by I-Write-Essays at 11:18 AM on May 5, 2019 [6 favorites]

Also: any love for not trash talking at all? It's a game and everyone ought to have fun without it being at anyone else's expense.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 12:53 PM on May 5 [5 favorites +] [!]

Come back to the thread when you can look up trash talking in yourself. Oh wait, you can't, you don't have hands, because you're a book, you (Microsoft-approved slur which I think in this case is "kid" but what if we replace "potato" with "Britannica", because that was kinda the also-ran of encyclopedias wasn't it? it was also a fancy boat that sank, right? could that work? encyclo-maritime trash talk? I don't know where this is going).

/hamburger

Also I never actually trash talk, because they're games and you're supposed to have fun with it. So don't take my advice if you're a trash talker.
posted by saysthis at 11:22 AM on May 5, 2019

GLaDOS having to upload herself to a potato is a reference to the potato meme which already existed long before Portal 2. The origin of that is that you can use a potato to make a battery or clock, but it's really low power. When someone takes a long time to load into a game, people accuse them of playing the game on a computer made from a potato. C.F. Toaster.

Exactly. "[Was this video] recorded with a potato" is at least as old as 2008. Portal 2 is from 2011.
posted by a car full of lions at 11:28 AM on May 5, 2019 [6 favorites]

I've never understood why people feel the need to be crappy to new/unskilled players. Like oh no you got me, I'm not very good. Thanks for that, Captain Obvious. Abusively worded or not, it's stupid to dunk on less skilled players. Everybody already knows what's up, so what the hell are you even wasting your time for?

I get where it comes from between hypercompetitive high level players, but the "git gud" bullshit directed at people who are clearly just in it for a bit of fun is, well, bullshit and would be called out as the unsportsmanlike conduct it is in any other game.

That said, I'm happy that Microsoft's examples are there because the discussion around it is making it very clear that the people who claim that banning abusive language is the same as banning all competitive banter are full of shit and are just mad that they can't be a *ist prick with no consequences.
posted by wierdo at 11:35 AM on May 5, 2019 [5 favorites]

> Abusively worded or not, it's stupid to dunk on less skilled players.

That's because those people are just no-skill bullies who know they can't compete, so they try to bandage their own feelings of inadequacy by preying on those they think are weaker than them. If they can't be good, they need to make sure everyone else knows they're not at the bottom. In earlier times, these people wouldn't be so loud because they'd get punched in the face, or run through with a sword.
posted by I-Write-Essays at 12:09 PM on May 5, 2019 [3 favorites]

the community of LoL players who participated in the Tribunal widely considered "gg ez" to be a punishable offence

iirc if you type gg ez into pc overwatch chat it comes up on everyone else's screen as a gentle cry for help, like "i've been having a really hard time lately so thanks in advance for your patience".
posted by poffin boffin at 12:41 PM on May 5, 2019 [6 favorites]

TATERS GONNA TATE
posted by XtinaS at 1:00 PM on May 5, 2019 [7 favorites]

> Perhaps Microsoft should have instead developed a code, with a number of core statements such as “your aim sucks”, “how mistaken I was to think you were a worthy adversary”, “go back to playing Solitaire” or similar, each with a possible 1-5 intensity score (perhaps rationed by a budget, so you don't just send a 5 to everyone?) and leave it at that.

I'm having trouble finding cites for it, but there's precedent for MMORPGs having, instead of emotes or chat, pre-generated phrases that players picked from a menu, and that players still found a way to use these methods for trash talk.

I think that by acknowledging that talking trash is an inevitable part of a competitive environment, Microsoft is at least being realistic by trying to steer player behavior into less offensive directions, even though this will probably be an impotent approach.
posted by ardgedee at 1:31 PM on May 5, 2019 [2 favorites]

I'm having trouble finding cites for it, but there's precedent for MMORPGs having, instead of emotes or chat, pre-generated phrases that players picked from a menu. Players still found a way to use it for trash talk.

Can confirm, Rocket League has this, and it gets used for evil far more than good. "What a save!" gets spammed when people score on you and your teammate doesn't make the save, or when you score on someone. "Close one!" after obviously one-sided games, "Wow!" and "Nice shot!" after an opponent sails past the ball without making any contact at all, etc, etc.

My favourite trash talk moment ever did come in a Rocket League game though: after a tense several-minute golden goal overtime in ranked doubles, my boyfriend and I finally put the winner in to make it 6-5. We'd been "What a save!"ing all their legit amazing on-the-line saves and "Nice one!"ing their goals in regulation time. It was a tense and really close game with excellent play from both us and them. During the replay after the winning goal (which we skipped, they didn't) one of them types out "wow you fucking luckers". Now Rocket League has a little luck element as any competitive game can have. The physics are deterministic, and there us essentially no RNG component. You can be lucky only in that your opponent can screw up at opportune times. Our final goal was a well worked passing play, not an opportunistic taking advantage of a mistake. So I quickly hit back with "yeah man I'm just button mashing wtf is going on? did we win?"

Only time I've really trash talked in an online game (excepting good mates I know outside of game contexts) and only time I've wanted to. It felt good.

Still hit them with a gg and a wp in post-game though. Like I said, it was proper close and they played well.
posted by Dysk at 1:42 PM on May 5, 2019 [1 favorite]

Go shoehorn your tapir.
posted by Splunge at 2:00 PM on May 5, 2019 [1 favorite]

2005 source for "I can count to potato": The Ringer.
posted by clawsoon at 2:10 PM on May 5, 2019

metafilter: shoehorn a spud, tapir
posted by XtinaS at 2:39 PM on May 5, 2019 [1 favorite]

If they can't be good, they need to make sure everyone else knows they're not at the bottom.

You basically cannot convince me that this isn't the root of first person vs. third person trash talking in e.g. battle royale games. Shitty first person players are the most vocal about how third person is a no-skill mode for babies who can't compete, because as long as all third person is agreed to be worse than all first person, they're officially not at the bottom.
posted by tocts at 2:42 PM on May 5, 2019 [1 favorite]

hearthstone only lets you talk to friends, otherwise you are limited to emotes. I generally say well played before either winning or conceding.
posted by gryftir at 8:47 PM on May 5, 2019

I'm having trouble finding cites for it, but there's precedent for MMORPGs having, instead of emotes or chat, pre-generated phrases that players picked from a menu, and that players still found a way to use these methods for trash talk.

Dark Souls does this with messages left by players. "Try finger but hole", "Weakness: chest, therefore try two handing" etc.
posted by Pyrogenesis at 10:01 PM on May 5, 2019

I want to feel safe to have fun with my incompetence, dagnabit.

I play Bandori, a rhythm were you can get the most points by playing songs online with other people. The neat thing is that you can get to choose your own difficulty and the only way to communicate is through stickers, so it's a very positive experience even for butterfingers like me.
posted by MartinWisse at 11:59 PM on May 5, 2019

Feels like no-one around here
Comprehends my potato
Guess I'm just a spud boy
Looking for that real tomato
posted by Meatbomb at 12:01 AM on May 6, 2019 [3 favorites]

As someone who has written this kind of document for online games, I am 100% confident that "potato" is the slang-of-the-month on at least one of their most popular games, and also I have a strong suspicion that I know who wrote it and she's rad.
posted by restless_nomad at 5:57 AM on May 6, 2019

There's a reason I generally don't play multiplayer stuff online anymore, and the few occasions I do, it's only with other members of MeFightClub.
posted by Nice Guy Mike at 6:16 AM on May 6, 2019 [1 favorite]

I'm pretty sure "potato aim" and its derivations are all derogatory terms for people who aren't on a low carb diet.
posted by skewed at 6:48 AM on May 6, 2019

I’m that person who still unironically writes “gg all” after a game.

I have a "Thank You" macro for healers.
posted by fullerine at 7:07 AM on May 6, 2019 [2 favorites]

Strange Interlude: "The very fact that the people at Microsoft apparently can't imagine people playing video games online without subjecting each other to random abuse is why I'm glad I never got into the XBox style of online gaming in the first place."

Wait, what about this makes it apparent that MS "can't imagine" people playing video games without smack talk? That's like looking at motorcycle helmet laws and saying that the lawmakers "couldn't imagine" people not driving motorcycles in the first place, or hearing about an educator explaining how to use a condom and saying they "couldn't imagine" kids not having sex.

The guidelines are for people who feel the need to trash talk. There aren't trash-talk-acceptability guidelines for people who don't feel the need to trash talk, because...we don't feel the need to trash talk.
posted by Bugbread at 5:41 PM on May 6, 2019 [1 favorite]

Those comparisons don't make sense, because trash talk is something you do to other people, unlike all of your examples. It's more analogous to making rules for how you're allowed to beat people up ("not in the face, punches should be to the stomach and not too heavy") than they're about the private or consensual activities you've listed.
posted by Dysk at 11:14 PM on May 6, 2019 [3 favorites]

We have plenty of laws about things that are neither private nor consensual as well. Out in the real world, you are allowed to talk to someone, even if they have not consented to be in a conversation with you, but screaming in their face can get you arrested. The existence of laws like that don't make me think "man, the government can't imagine people being introverted and not speaking in the first place."
posted by Bugbread at 11:42 PM on May 6, 2019

Speaking to someone, unlike trash talk, is not really a form of harassment.
posted by Dysk at 12:03 AM on May 7, 2019 [2 favorites]

Okay, fine, forget the analogies. They were meant to illustrate my central thesis, but seem to be impeding communication instead.

So, analogy-free:

"If you perform Action A, here are some acceptable ways to do it and here are some unacceptable ways to do it" does not mean "I am incapable of imagining anyone not engaging in Action A at all."
posted by Bugbread at 12:09 AM on May 7, 2019

...and if the government passed a law that laid out exactly how much screaming in somebody's face you're allowed to do, I and a lot of others would indeed take that as a kind of endorsement of screaming in other people's faces. And I think it is fair to say that government legislation does indeed acknowledge that it is entirely unrealistic to expect people not to talk to one another. Or phrased differently, they can't imagine people not talking to one another. So they set out rules for how to do it acceptably (ie no outright harassment).

The fact that Microsoft entirely control the platform in question and set the terms and conditions unilaterally also makes this not quite like what you're suggesting. A pub that has rules about exactly how much you're allowed to shout at and insult your fellow patrons is one that implicitly endorses using its premises to pick fights.

So either MS is saying it's entirely unrealistic to expect people not to trash talk (as suggested above, which is what you're objecting to) or they're it endorsing it. You're just taking the particular wording too literally in an unhelpful way.
posted by Dysk at 12:10 AM on May 7, 2019 [2 favorites]

I'm getting really, really confused about whether or not we're even in disagreement.

On multiple rereads, it looks like we're using the word "people" in different ways. I took "can't imagine people playing without trash talking" to mean "can't imagine anyone playing without trash talking," but it looks like maybe you (and perhaps Strange Interlude) are taking it to mean "can't imagine everyone playing without trash talking"? Am I getting that right, or am I off-base?

Dysk: "You're just taking the particular wording too literally in an unhelpful way."

I'm not trying to be unhelpful, that's just what what I thought/think the meaning of the sentence was. Is this just me misunderstanding the original comment?
posted by Bugbread at 12:59 AM on May 7, 2019 [1 favorite]

Yeah, I think that's the root of the disagreement.
posted by Dysk at 2:28 AM on May 7, 2019

Ah, okay. Thanks, and sorry.
posted by Bugbread at 3:22 AM on May 7, 2019 [2 favorites]

There's a wee bit of hyperbole in that sentence which to me reads as half idiomatic and half metafilter. The gist is that Microsoft could create a system that enforces the kind of etiquette mandatory for many sports, where the match ends in a handshake at the potential cost of future participation. Instead, they're creating a system that permits trash talk as long as it "doesn't go too far."
posted by GenderNullPointerException at 5:52 AM on May 7, 2019 [3 favorites]

*wakes up, looks at thread*

My original point way up at the top was that it's fully possible -- mayhap even preferable! -- to play an anonymous online game and just keep your opinions of other people's play style/lack of skills to yourself without having to openly belittle them about it. Trash talk without sexist or racist slurs is still basically trash talk, and the fact that Microsoft and parts of the gaming culture at large have chosen to endorse it as "just part of the game" is something that many of us find disturbing.
posted by Strange Interlude at 6:07 AM on May 7, 2019 [3 favorites]

Oh, no disagreement there.

I would love, love, love to see a breakdown of trash talking incidence by game, player age, and location.

I'm a single-player game person, and play almost zero multiplayer. My son, however, has recently (starting maybe a year ago?) gotten into multiplayer games with voice chat capabilities, and all this discussion of the typical pre-teen shittalker had me pretty worried. However, in the year he's been playing games (in the living room), I've never heard a trash talker. Not even once.

But that seems so statistically improbable that I'd love to know why. He's playing Fortnite on Asian servers. All the other players with voice chat enabled seem to be little kids. Is it that Fortnite doesn't have shittalkers? Is it people on Asian servers don't talk shit? Is it some specific Venn diagram intersection: children that play Fortnite on Asian servers that speak in English don't talk shit? It's a fascinating but wonderful mystery.
posted by Bugbread at 6:23 AM on May 7, 2019

I play single-person games largely because I need no outside help in trash-talking myself.
posted by nubs at 8:10 AM on May 7, 2019 [4 favorites]