The End Is Only the Beginning
May 23, 2019 10:34 AM   Subscribe

Teaser trailer for Star Trek: Picard. More info on the series at io9.
posted by Cash4Lead (197 comments total) 15 users marked this as a favorite
 
While I am happy that Star Trek has some momentum behind it again, I do not really understand why this particular project is happening.
posted by vibratory manner of working at 10:42 AM on May 23, 2019 [7 favorites]


I know it's too soon but god I want the Oral History of CBS All Access so bad
posted by prize bull octorok at 10:44 AM on May 23, 2019 [17 favorites]


I do not really understand why this particular project is happening.

Because Patrick Stewart is willing to do it and the creators know that fans see him as a link back to a more circumspect, more grounded and less lens-flare-y Trek.

More recent Trek has been garbage deserving of its unthoughtful age
posted by killdevil at 10:46 AM on May 23, 2019 [35 favorites]


I love Patrick Stewart but I want to see new actors playing new characters in new stories, not endless churning up of old characters and old stories. Discovery has been guilty of that as well lately.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 10:46 AM on May 23, 2019 [7 favorites]


It took me a long time to figure out that this video didn't have an add before it. How much do you think they're hoping to make on Picard wine?
posted by es_de_bah at 10:46 AM on May 23, 2019 [2 favorites]


I do not really understand why this particular project is happening.

omg shut up they’ll hear you

I’m scared to be older and dying and I want this to be good so badly. I want to feel a little bit better and I want watch Patrick Stewart say Star Trek things in front of a camera again.
posted by vocivi at 10:48 AM on May 23, 2019 [77 favorites]


The end of that trailer really sounded like the TNG theme played on the Ressikan flute and why is it dusty here
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 10:49 AM on May 23, 2019 [34 favorites]


I will definitely watch this. Discovery has fallen victim to the school of screenwriting that doesn't understand huge dramatic moments need to be earned, and that peaks need valleys to be meaningful (I swear that Captain Pike had more hugely dramatic speeches in one season that Picard had in 7). Stewart has enough sense--and likely enough pull--to not put up with that kind of storytelling.
posted by Fish Sauce at 10:49 AM on May 23, 2019 [10 favorites]


In case there are other people geo-blocked on the OP video, this one works in Canada: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eA-GJNebJj0
posted by Laura in Canada at 10:51 AM on May 23, 2019 [9 favorites]


I do not really understand why this particular project is happening

Because it pairs well with seafood and briny shellfish.
posted by theory at 10:51 AM on May 23, 2019 [14 favorites]


I hope we get more garishly awful civilian clothes though
posted by vibratory manner of working at 10:55 AM on May 23, 2019 [20 favorites]


I don't have much faith in the project if they could barely pay Patrick Stewart to be in the trailer.
posted by tofu_crouton at 10:55 AM on May 23, 2019 [2 favorites]


If I may?

OH BOY OH BOY OH BOY
MAKE IT SO NAO NAO NAO
YES YES YES YES YES NAO PLEASE
posted by Capt. Renault at 10:58 AM on May 23, 2019 [6 favorites]


I imagine this probably won't go down this way, but I'm really hoping the show will explore the galaxy a bit from outside of the perspective of starfleet. Old Picard, being a force for good his own individual way seems like it could be great fun.
posted by Kikujiro's Summer at 10:58 AM on May 23, 2019 [8 favorites]


7). Stewart has enough sense--and likely enough pull--to not put up with that kind of storytelling.

Uhhh, yeah.

Stewart has a "just send me a picture of the check!" threshold when it comes to signing on to stuff, just like the rest of us.
posted by sideshow at 10:58 AM on May 23, 2019 [11 favorites]


How much do you think they're hoping to make on Picard wine?

I mean, yeah, I'm not signing up for CBS All Access, but a few bottles of that and my Christmas gift for my Dad is set for every year until the end of time.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 11:00 AM on May 23, 2019 [6 favorites]


Stewart is also responsible for Dune Buggy Picard. I'm not convinced he has a good feel for what made the character great. Or perhaps he does, and doesn't give a shit.
posted by Chrysostom at 11:00 AM on May 23, 2019 [3 favorites]


I thought the beginning of this was an antidepressant ad. Or an allergy med ad. Or possibly a yogurt ad.
posted by greermahoney at 11:01 AM on May 23, 2019 [10 favorites]


On the plus side, Michael Chabon is a producer/writer on this. On the other hand Alex Kurtzman and fucking Akiva Goldsman are too.
posted by octothorpe at 11:02 AM on May 23, 2019 [4 favorites]


I'm cautiously optimistic.
posted by SansPoint at 11:03 AM on May 23, 2019


Can we please just have a series about Worf?
posted by J.K. Seazer at 11:05 AM on May 23, 2019 [21 favorites]


1. Patrick Steward has become a beloved, mass cultural icon via his role in the X-Men franchise.

You think that's why people like Stewart?
posted by pracowity at 11:08 AM on May 23, 2019 [55 favorites]


so I've only watched a single episode of ST:TNG all the way through* and I haven't watched the trailer yet but if this is just nothing but Patrick Stewart vamping around a vineyard for 40 minutes per episode I would totally watch it**

*yes, that one
**if it wasn't on CBS All Access

posted by prize bull octorok at 11:09 AM on May 23, 2019 [5 favorites]


He's an icon from that bit he did on Extras.
posted by Chrysostom at 11:10 AM on May 23, 2019 [18 favorites]


I am totally, totally up for this, even though the trailer doesn't look at all like my vision of Picard and Vash having screwball archaeological adventures across the galaxy in their space Winnebago.
posted by Capt. Renault at 11:10 AM on May 23, 2019 [24 favorites]


I am willing to give the benefit of the doubt to literally any show premise that gets us beyond goddamn prequels.

(I like DSC more than a lot of people here - I remember how long it took TNG to find its feet - but I still disagree strongly with the choice to set it pre-TOS.)

You think that's why people like Stewart?

Upon preview: this needs more than a favorite. I've liked Patrick Stewart ever since the first time I heard him speak without a script. He's fantastic.
posted by mordax at 11:10 AM on May 23, 2019 [16 favorites]


Where's Beverly?
posted by hepta at 11:11 AM on May 23, 2019 [4 favorites]


I'd love for this to be good. And I'll definitely be watching it as soon as it debuts.

But, having been burned so many times by LensFlareTrek and everything after, I pretty much expect the studio to fuck it up.

The Orville, for all its many flaws, is – against all odds – still the best Trek show on TV right now.

(I'd prefer to see some new characters, too. But if they have to resurrect an old character, I'll take Stewart's Picard over just about anyone else.)
posted by escape from the potato planet at 11:12 AM on May 23, 2019 [7 favorites]


'Star Trek' Writer Explains Patrick Stewart's Involvement In Writers' Room (Adam Barnhardt, Comicbook.com)
According to Chabon, Stewart showed up for a few weeks to brainstorm with the writers to get ideas flowing.
posted by ZeusHumms at 11:13 AM on May 23, 2019 [4 favorites]


hepta: She's captain of the USS Pasteur
posted by SansPoint at 11:15 AM on May 23, 2019 [3 favorites]


Old Man Logan... in Spaaaaace!
posted by JamesBay at 11:15 AM on May 23, 2019 [2 favorites]


Me 3 seconds into the trailer:

Called it! MOTHERFUCKING GRAPES

There better not be mysteries. There just better not be.
posted by RolandOfEld at 11:18 AM on May 23, 2019 [5 favorites]


Uhhh, yeah.

Stewart has a "just send me a picture of the check!" threshold when it comes to signing on to stuff, just like the rest of us.

[...]

Stewart is also responsible for Dune Buggy Picard. I'm not convinced he has a good feel for what made the character great. Or perhaps he does, and doesn't give a shit.
We all need a paycheque once in a while, and sometimes it's fun to do something stupid. With the Picard on the Dune Buggy, wasn't that basically something he'd always wanted to do and this was going to be his only opportunity, at the end of a franchise that was past its sell-by date and had run out of creative juice entirely? I don't blame him for that.
posted by Fish Sauce at 11:19 AM on May 23, 2019 [7 favorites]


In the tradition of my excitement about Voyager, Enterprise, and Discovery, I've got high hopes for this and am looking forward to having them immediately dashed like a crystalline entity against an asteroid
posted by Greg Nog at 11:19 AM on May 23, 2019 [30 favorites]


There better not be mysteries. There just better not be

having not seen the trailer yet. old, vinyard, Picard playing Jessica Fletcher sounds actually kind of awesome.
posted by Dr. Twist at 11:21 AM on May 23, 2019 [17 favorites]


Star Trek: Picard is coming soon to CBS All Access...
Goddammit!

...and other platforms, including Amazon Prime.
Oh! Well okay then!
posted by Thorzdad at 11:22 AM on May 23, 2019 [6 favorites]


Can we please just have a series about Worf?

Worf is too high-ranking. Make a series about nobodies, about people of no rank, underperformers, the sort who never get to leave the ship and have sex with green aliens. Or maybe they do have sex with green aliens, but only while on leave, and for a price, and they catch something itchy. A different main character every episode. Maybe you see a couple of famous characters for ten seconds every once in a while as a waiter takes their order, but then they're gone and it's back to the story of the waiter and the busboy stuck in dead-end jobs for years. Stories about people who never get to go on a ship because only the privileged get to travel in space, and then some asshole blows up their planet because some cocky space captain made him mad.
posted by pracowity at 11:23 AM on May 23, 2019 [27 favorites]


It took me a long time to figure out that this video didn't have an add before it. How much do you think they're hoping to make on Picard wine?

They're going to make a boatload when The Lonely Island drops a Picard DVX jingle.
posted by doctornecessiter at 11:24 AM on May 23, 2019 [2 favorites]


Make a series about nobodies, about people of no rank,

They're making it!
posted by Greg Nog at 11:25 AM on May 23, 2019 [19 favorites]


pracowity I feel like you need to read/watch The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy if you haven't already.
posted by RolandOfEld at 11:25 AM on May 23, 2019


pracowity Lower Decks is currently development.
posted by SansPoint at 11:25 AM on May 23, 2019 [6 favorites]


Oh, yes.
posted by duffell at 11:26 AM on May 23, 2019 [7 favorites]


Can we please just have a series about Worf?

I've been telling all of my Star Trek friends for the last 10 years that all I have ever wanted is an entire show focused on the Klingons. And they'd make so much god damn money telling us a story from the other side of the galaxy.

This looks interesting but the trailer really didn't tell me anything. So who knows how it will pan out.
posted by Fizz at 11:26 AM on May 23, 2019 [1 favorite]


I'm here for this. I am so freaking here for this.
posted by Bacon Bit at 11:26 AM on May 23, 2019 [2 favorites]


Make a series about nobodies, about people of no rank, underperformers,

Neelix and Goss open a cafe!
posted by JamesBay at 11:27 AM on May 23, 2019 [4 favorites]


Video unavailable
The uploader has not made this video available in your country.


Story of my life. I don't even get to watch the teaser.

Don't you want to sell tv to Canadians, CBS? (maybe you can't, so yeah, you don't care).

Well, I'm back to my first-watch of Enterprise (2001-2005), only 18 years or so behind the zeitgeist. I can't wait until 2029, when I can start GoT.
posted by jb at 11:27 AM on May 23, 2019 [6 favorites]


Fish Sauce: "With the Picard on the Dune Buggy, wasn't that basically something he'd always wanted to do and this was going to be his only opportunity, at the end of a franchise that was past its sell-by date and had run out of creative juice entirely? I don't blame him for that."

In general, Movie Picard is a completely different person than TV Picard. It's not just the dune buggy that's a problem there.
posted by Chrysostom at 11:29 AM on May 23, 2019 [2 favorites]


There better not be mysteries. There just better not be.

Colombo Picard would be amazing.
posted by grumpybear69 at 11:30 AM on May 23, 2019 [10 favorites]


They're making it!

Huh.
posted by pracowity at 11:34 AM on May 23, 2019


I wonder if Wil Wheaton will make an appearance. Perhaps Wesley Crusher, after getting drummed out of Starfleet after making odd comments, has exiled himself to a distant planet. Only Picard can bring him back.
posted by JamesBay at 11:34 AM on May 23, 2019 [2 favorites]


Make a series about nobodies, about people of no rank, underperformers,

apparently they are making one (really? another animated series? because the last one was so beloved...)

but the perfect reshirts story already exists.

I also have a super-soft spot for Diana Carey's awesome Mary Sue Piper novels.
posted by jb at 11:34 AM on May 23, 2019 [2 favorites]


In general, Movie Picard is a completely different person than TV Picard.

There was a big back-and-forth between the leads and the producers in the making of Insurrection (probably posted about here). As I remember it, the producers wanted to make a long, contemplative episode; Stewart insisted that (this being a movie) there needed to be action; Spiner systematically dismantled inconsistencies in the plot and characterization and maybe should have been the writer for that one...?
posted by Jpfed at 11:38 AM on May 23, 2019


They have to reuse the cast now, because they can't wait another 10 years to rehire actors from the TNG era. And I prefer a post-Prime story rather than a young Picard (Academy, Stargazer) one though Stargazer sounds fun too.
posted by polymodus at 11:39 AM on May 23, 2019 [1 favorite]


I'm just really, really glad that we're seeing at least some return to going forward, instead of this stupid self-indulgant prequel stuff, or or the alternate-universe Action Trek crap from the movies.
posted by evilangela at 11:41 AM on May 23, 2019 [14 favorites]


"Why did you leave Starfleet?" Is this going to be The Prisoner in space? BECAUSE OMG YES PLEASE LET THIS BE THE PRISONER IN SPACE
posted by phooky at 11:44 AM on May 23, 2019 [30 favorites]


Fwiw, I'm in the midst of watching DS9 for the first time (saw the first season and scattered episodes back in the day), and omg, it is FANTASTIC. It's a frontier western that's also somehow about dealing with the aftermath of the Nazis, and not a complete mess.

Working from an episode guide that skips most of the first season and part of the second... My partner is like actively into watching trek for the first time ever.
posted by kaibutsu at 11:45 AM on May 23, 2019 [28 favorites]


I prefer a post-Prime story rather than a young Picard

Hard agree with this; I think the success of TNG and the diminishing returns in Voyager (and worse ratings in DS9) have made producers scared to tread too far afield from either TNG's levels of technology or general demeanor, which is part of why The Orville and Discovery both blow chunks but in really different ways. I'm hoping this one actually revives my favorite aspect of DS9; teasing out the consequences of stories we've already seen and their larger impacts on humanoid relationships in the galaxy.
posted by Greg Nog at 11:45 AM on May 23, 2019 [3 favorites]


Picard (and the rest of the TNG crew) deserve a better send-off than Nemesis and I'm hoping we get to see some of them in this, even if I am happy that this is not about them. And Michael Chabon wrote the best episode of Star Trek in 15 years.

It is funny to me how so many people don't want to go to the same Trek character well, because for a long time TNG was the black sheep because "Star Trek" was Kirk, Spock, McCoy, Uhura, Scotty, and Sulu. TNG is beloved now, so it's hard to imagine that there was a time when creating a new Trek show starring all-new characters was seen as incredibly risky.
posted by Automocar at 11:46 AM on May 23, 2019 [5 favorites]


Stewart is also responsible for Dune Buggy Picard. I'm not convinced he has a good feel for what made the character great. Or perhaps he does, and doesn't give a shit.

I feel like you can pretty much tell when he got enough pull with the people running TNG to have them start making the episodes he wanted, and his requests seem to have been 1) "get me out of this uniform and into some casual clothes that show off my chest" and 2) "I will be running around more, doing more action stuff, and making out much more".

And, like, whatever, having fun in space has got to be a big draw for being the star of your own sci-fi show, and it's not like having him play Indiana Jones occasionally prevented them from doing serious drama in other episodes. I do think that his taste in the various flavors of Picard is somewhat different from the fanbase's.
posted by Copronymus at 11:47 AM on May 23, 2019 [3 favorites]


I don't know if it would make for good television but I really want Picard's answer to the "Why did you leave Starfleet?" question to be "PTSD from being repeatedly kidnapped and tortured with barely any time off to heal, you assholes!" (I know that I'm a few decades late but I'm disappointed at the lack of character development and growth in Next Generation. The man's been through some really bad stuff so maybe immediately thrusting him back into command immediately after every incident wasn't the right answer! His literal physical wounds from the Borg weren't even healed when he was placed back on the bridge nevermind the psychic and emotional wounds!)
posted by ElKevbo at 11:49 AM on May 23, 2019 [9 favorites]


And Michael Chabon wrote the best episode of Star Trek in 15 years.
Hard disagree there. My gf and I were literally laughing out loud at how absurd and cliched it was.
posted by Fish Sauce at 11:52 AM on May 23, 2019


I never saw any TNG movies other than First Encounter; what's the deal with "the biggest rescue fleet in history"?
posted by suelac at 11:53 AM on May 23, 2019


As long as Picard goes to the planet where Data secretly established a laboratory before his "death" and is now the home to a civilization calling itself the Children of Soong, I'll be happy.
posted by Mr.Encyclopedia at 11:54 AM on May 23, 2019 [3 favorites]


I'll watch it. I'm glad more Trek exists in the world.

On the ranked list of TNG stories worth following up on, the Picard vineyard is somewhere around number 170. It was boring, unimaginative hack writing in 1990. There are some many more interesting stories one can tell in the same universe.
posted by eotvos at 11:55 AM on May 23, 2019 [2 favorites]


His literal physical wounds from the Borg weren't even healed when he was placed back on the bridge nevermind the psychic and emotional wounds!

Our 21st century science has yet to identify the intense healing effect of wrestling with your asshole brother in the mud, but Starfleet clearly had and thus re-assigned him to active duty upon the completion of this powerful ritual.
posted by Copronymus at 11:57 AM on May 23, 2019 [6 favorites]


Wine! Wine! I want to try his wine!
posted by uraniumwilly at 12:01 PM on May 23, 2019 [3 favorites]


So much happened between the last seasons of TNG and the movies that I'm unclear if I already know which rescue/which "unimaginable" thing the trailer is referring to.

I mean, any one of the crazy things he went through would be plenty reason for him to quit, so I'm already mad at this offscreen interrogator. He lived an entire alternate life and lost it! He was turned into a Borg! There was some time-travel shit!(granted, this seems standard for Starfleet). He was repeatedly stalked, harassed and kidnapped by an asshole omnipotent being for funsies!

The man has earned the right to putz around a vineyard forever if he wants to. And yeah I do kinda want him to be Future Jessica Fletcher but I know that it's back to space for ol' Jean-Luc and I'll watch it because I have to, and because also maybe Worf will show up.
posted by emjaybee at 12:02 PM on May 23, 2019 [11 favorites]


The io9 article says it'll be on CBS All Access in the US, and on Amazon Prime in other countries. Why not just call it "Star Trek: Why Not Just Torrent This One, Too?"
posted by xedrik at 12:02 PM on May 23, 2019 [22 favorites]


What's the minimum amount of Star Trek one must have seen to appreciate the new Picard project?
posted by ZeusHumms at 12:02 PM on May 23, 2019


Wine! Wine! I want to try his wine!
It is... It is... It is red.
posted by xedrik at 12:03 PM on May 23, 2019 [13 favorites]


I do not really understand why this particular project is happening.

Because a) Stewart is willing to do it, and b) fans have been clamoring for years for a show set at the end of the 24th century or the beginning of the 25th, if not later.

It is funny to me how so many people don't want to go to the same Trek character well, because for a long time TNG was the black sheep because "Star Trek" was Kirk, Spock, McCoy, Uhura, Scotty, and Sulu. TNG is beloved now, so it's hard to imagine that there was a time when creating a new Trek show starring all-new characters was seen as incredibly risky.

There are two main rules for new iterations of the franchise:

- They take a few years to find their footing, usually; TOS is the only real exception to this, as it had a very strong first two years and a very weak third.

- The fans of the previous iteration of the franchise will hate on the new one with a vengeance, using the relative weakness of the rookie season(s) to agitate for a revival of the one that they were originally fans of.
posted by Halloween Jack at 12:04 PM on May 23, 2019 [5 favorites]


BECAUSE OMG YES PLEASE LET THIS BE THE PRISONER IN SPACE

"Who is Number One?"

*points to Riker*
posted by Capt. Renault at 12:05 PM on May 23, 2019 [47 favorites]


I doubt they're gonna need you to have seen all that much to get footing in the new series, but if you want a crash-course in TNG, here's a 24-hour block of it, according to me: ST:TNG "Essential Episodes"
posted by Greg Nog at 12:07 PM on May 23, 2019 [6 favorites]


The trailer for the Worf series has gorgeous golden hour footage of plum tree orchards and shows him lovingly packing a crate of bottles of prune juice.
posted by The World Famous at 12:11 PM on May 23, 2019 [44 favorites]


Or, if we're going for comedy, it'd be fun to watch the 'walking down the field towards the light' shot, with the person's hands trailing over a trellis of serpentine worms.
posted by Kikujiro's Summer at 12:23 PM on May 23, 2019


TNG movies got so bad I never even saw the last one, but damn if I won't give this a try anyway. I figure it has about a 30% chance of being embarrassingly bad and 60% chance of being mediocre, forgettable fan-service. But that other 10%? Oooh, I can't resist.
posted by skewed at 12:24 PM on May 23, 2019 [1 favorite]


I'm really hoping this is just an in-depth study of 24th century viticulture.
posted by HiddenInput at 12:26 PM on May 23, 2019 [15 favorites]


I do think that his taste in the various flavors of Picard is somewhat different from the fanbase's.

Interestingly, "Taste the Flavors of Picard" is Chateau Picard's worst-performing slogan.
posted by Rock Steady at 12:28 PM on May 23, 2019 [15 favorites]


They should embrace the Picard dichotomy

Like one episode is goofy air drumming horny Picard

And in the next cold blooded pirate killer Picard
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 12:40 PM on May 23, 2019 [4 favorites]


tofu_crouton: I don't have much faith in the project if they could barely pay Patrick Stewart to be in the trailer.

That's not how trailers work.
posted by tzikeh at 12:45 PM on May 23, 2019 [13 favorites]


They should embrace the Picard dichotomy

Alternately, what we might need is the Council of Picards, featuring Picards from across the multiverse working together to find the best ways to fix various omniversal problems, such as the failure of the 'verse to exist beyond the 24th century. (Maybe Q's time reversing widget from All Good Things could be why there's nothing left but prequels and reboots, but Action-Picard could blow it up while Still-Partially-Borg-Picard calculates the odds and Magnificent-Public-Speaker-Picard distracts Q.)
posted by mordax at 12:49 PM on May 23, 2019 [7 favorites]


Good Omens, Deadwood, Picard.

I think my heart is about ready to just burst out of my chest.
posted by jurymast at 12:54 PM on May 23, 2019 [5 favorites]


I wish I'd had a chance to know that Jean-Luc Picard.
posted by xedrik at 12:55 PM on May 23, 2019 [5 favorites]


Note that (spoilers) ST:DISCO may very well not be set in the past of Star Trek anymore.
posted by rikschell at 12:56 PM on May 23, 2019 [1 favorite]


"Why did you leave Starfleet?"

"Because I'm old and wanted to retire to my family vineyard. I thought that was obvious."

I mean, I'm hopeful that there is still good storytelling potential here, but even in a future where people evidently live longer and healthier lives than here in the 21st century (e.g.: the human TOS characters showing up on TNG would have had to have been about 100 years old) it seems apparent that an old man would maybe want to retire from the pseudo-military organization and spend some time enjoying the fruits of space communism.
posted by asnider at 12:58 PM on May 23, 2019 [4 favorites]


Note that (spoilers) ST:DISCO may very well not be set in the past of Star Trek anymore.

Here's hoping. In fact, here's the weirdest sentence I'm going to say all day: I remain hopeful that ST:DSC is going to turn into a stealth reboot of Gene Roddenberry's Andromeda.
posted by mordax at 12:58 PM on May 23, 2019 [17 favorites]


I never saw any TNG movies other than First Encounter; what's the deal with "the biggest rescue fleet in history"?

We don't know--the writers have said that this series will deal with the fallout from the destruction of Romulus in 2387 as seen in ST09. That would appear to match, except the've also said this takes place in 2399, so that's not 15 years. It's possible they've changed that and it's taking place in 2402.
posted by Automocar at 1:01 PM on May 23, 2019 [1 favorite]


"Why did you leave Starfleet?"

"What? Leave Star... ? I never left, you ninny. Check your records! I'm the head of Section.. er, yes.

Indeed.

Personal reasons."
posted by porpoise at 1:04 PM on May 23, 2019 [3 favorites]


skewed: "TNG movies got so bad I never even saw the last one, but damn if I won't give this a try anyway. I figure it has about a 30% chance of being embarrassingly bad and 60% chance of being mediocre, forgettable fan-service. But that other 10%? Oooh, I can't resist."

The only watchable one is Die Hard on a Starship First Contact.
posted by octothorpe at 1:04 PM on May 23, 2019 [8 favorites]


There are two main rules for new iterations of the franchise:

- They take a few years to find their footing, usually; TOS is the only real exception to this, as it had a very strong first two years and a very weak third.

- The fans of the previous iteration of the franchise will hate on the new one with a vengeance, using the relative weakness of the rookie season(s) to agitate for a revival of the one that they were originally fans of.


True, but that's my point--there was no "Star Trek franchise" in 1986, there was just Star Trek, which was Kirk and Spock.

TNG starring a new crew was completely untested. There was a sizable contingent of people going to Star Trek conventions in 1986 up to about 1991 that just did not think anything not starring Shatner or Nimoy was actually Star Trek. Nimoy appearing on TNG in 1991 for the 25th anniversary put a lot of that to rest, and of course now TNG is pretty much universally beloved amongst Trekkies.
posted by Automocar at 1:05 PM on May 23, 2019 [4 favorites]


I want an image of Borg-Picard stomping grapes.
posted by mecran01 at 1:08 PM on May 23, 2019 [3 favorites]


ever since late TNG, all the series have had a strong element of there being a fascist police state in starfleet trying to take over. it would be pretty sweet if this series was about them having won and driven picard out, and now they are trying to embarrass or purge this last good guy figurehead, and then he kicks all their asses.
posted by wibari at 1:29 PM on May 23, 2019 [16 favorites]


I want an image of Borg-Picard stomping grapes.
The wine must be stomped HERE!
posted by xedrik at 1:31 PM on May 23, 2019 [22 favorites]


"Why did you leave Starfleet?"

"Many reasons:
To control the British crown.
To keep the metric system down.
To keep Atlantis off the maps.
To the Martians under wraps.
To hold back the electric car.
To make Steve Gutenberg a star.
To rob gamefish of their site.
To rig every Oscar night!

Also to drink beer and eat... ribs."
posted by the phlegmatic king at 1:51 PM on May 23, 2019 [10 favorites]


I'm waiting for the episode that explores his brief career running an erotic bakery.

Let's see if anyone gets that reference.
posted by SansPoint at 1:57 PM on May 23, 2019 [14 favorites]


I was also hoping to see cakes where a woman is peeing on a man, though it's become a bit on the nose these days.

Also I was hoping to see Picard using Q powers to make people's clothes fall off.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 2:08 PM on May 23, 2019 [12 favorites]


"Why did you leave Starfleet?" Um, maybe Starfleet has something like 10 USC 1253.

Meanwhile I am nearing the end of a first watch of Voyager (which was preceeded by a first watch of each of the previous series in order, my only experience having been the original series on TV syndication as a kid). Hoping that Voyager will last us until the next season of The Expanse, as I am not hearing good things about the more recent Star Trek stuff.
posted by exogenous at 2:35 PM on May 23, 2019 [1 favorite]


what we might need is the Council of Picards

I can't deny that I still watch The Fastest Idiot Alive for some reason, but if Star Trek starts mining the Flarrowverse for ideas, I might just have to retroactively hate the whole franchise, TNG included.
posted by solotoro at 2:39 PM on May 23, 2019


"Why did you leave Starfleet?" Is this going to be The Prisoner in space? BECAUSE OMG YES PLEASE LET THIS BE THE PRISONER IN SPACE

*Insert picture of Patrick Stewart in stillsuit as Gurney Halleck in Dune*

HE IS NOT A NUMBER! HE IS A FREMEN!
posted by The Underpants Monster at 2:40 PM on May 23, 2019 [11 favorites]


he'll always be Space Sejanus to me
posted by prize bull octorok at 2:41 PM on May 23, 2019 [8 favorites]


I can't deny that I still watch The Fastest Idiot Alive for some reason, but if Star Trek starts mining the Flarrowverse for ideas, I might just have to retroactively hate the whole franchise, TNG included.

The idea's older than that. (Also, I would argue that one of The Flash's many failures was not actually running with that notion a lot more.)
posted by mordax at 2:46 PM on May 23, 2019 [3 favorites]


What I really want is a Culture series not made by people answering to Jeff Bezos, but in place of that I will take this.

For me, every single bit of Star Trek after DS9 introduced Section 31 has been non-canonical. The point of Star Trek - and frankly most sci-fi - is to explore what happens after we get our current, known, unbelievably shitty problems as a species squared away. What are the new problems we face after that? When the currently abstract philosophical questions become matters of literal life or death?

Braga betrayed Roddenberry’s vision with his whole Section 31 = Starfleet sekrit fascizms bullshit. The entire series was based on the premise of “in the 24th century, we won’t still be dealing with [insert any type of bigotry or mass human stupidity/evil here].”

I’ve never forgiven DS9’s writers for walking that back. I’ve never forgiven Voyager’s writers for making the first woman to captain a starship onscreen always choose the stupidest and most emotionally-driven response to a crisis Every. Fucking. Time. Leadership style differences my entire ass - it’s beyond insulting to the premise of the franchise and they fucking well knew it but were too lazy to bother doing better.

I hope Patrick Stewart taking up his role again means a return to what TNG represented in its cultural moment, updated for 2019 and possibly with a few barbed allusions to the widespread regressive politics of the present, but I’m not expecting much.
posted by Ryvar at 2:48 PM on May 23, 2019 [10 favorites]


Braga betrayed Roddenberry’s vision with his whole Section 31 = Starfleet sekrit fascizms bullshit.

Wow the Braga hate is still so strong that now he’s being blamed for things that originated on shows he never worked on
posted by Automocar at 2:51 PM on May 23, 2019 [3 favorites]


I am desperately tired of Star Trek, but if this show is just Picard making wine in the future for episode after episode, I will be happy as a damn lark.
posted by sonascope at 2:51 PM on May 23, 2019 [4 favorites]


I’m sorry, I said Braga when I meant Behr and that’s my bad.
posted by Ryvar at 2:55 PM on May 23, 2019


I do not really understand why this particular project is happening.

Surely it's because Logan turned out to be a big success both financially and critically, so the suits were all-too-happy to greenlight another project about Patrick Stewart playing a popular franchise character having one last grim adventure at the end of his life.

Who wants to bet whether they're gonna go for a TV-MA rating?
posted by straight at 3:01 PM on May 23, 2019


Question for those watching "The Orville": I couldn't watch more than 15 minutes of the first episode. It was hacky, obvious, and unfunny, all the worst bits of Seth Mcfarlane's comedy ideas. Did it actually become watchable?
posted by Saxon Kane at 3:08 PM on May 23, 2019 [5 favorites]


that's not a great invitation to share why we enjoy the show! check out the fanfare threads if you're really curious.
posted by prize bull octorok at 3:22 PM on May 23, 2019 [1 favorite]


There better not be mysteries. There just better not be.

Colombo Picard would be amazing.


You just know Picard has a holobarn on the estate for his Dixon Hill larping.
posted by rodlymight at 3:36 PM on May 23, 2019 [7 favorites]


I’m a Star Trek fan but basically just TNG and DS9. I watched a fair amount of voyager growing up but it didn’t stick.

I have to say: Patrick Stewart is 78. I will watch the fuck outta this if it’s on Prime. I’m interested in having the experience of watching a show with a late 70s into 80 year old protagonist - that hasn’t been offered to me that I can recall. I’m 35 and it seems like you couldn’t be an old hero on TV from the 90s on. I’m stoked for this.
posted by lazaruslong at 3:41 PM on May 23, 2019 [10 favorites]


Barnaby Jones in Space. Great. Every so often there'll be a scene with Picard in a golf jacket trying to get his knees to do something resembling running.
posted by Chitownfats at 4:16 PM on May 23, 2019


oh sweet another cool concept for cbs to run into the ground
posted by Bwentman at 4:19 PM on May 23, 2019 [1 favorite]


I am a Star Trek fan and like most fans I've always given the franchise more chances than it really deserves. If Star Trek had been any other franchise with this level of uneven writing, I would have dropped it after an episode or two. In 2019, Star Trek needs to deliver - no, fucking kill it - in the writing department. There are so many good shows to watch and my patient and attention span is so lacking these days that I can't take another Star Trek series that needs a season or two to get good (not great just good).

As for the Picard series, how lazy and cynical do you have to be to revisit one of the franchise's most beloved icons instead of creating your own legend in a future time period? If this is the foundation of the series, I don't have high hopes for the actual episodes. The fact that Alex Kurtzman is behind the series is also troubling.

Discovery made me realize that my patience with the franchise is running thin and I fear that Picard will extinguish what love I have left for Star Trek. I hope that I'm proven wrong.
posted by Foci for Analysis at 4:21 PM on May 23, 2019 [4 favorites]


*Insert picture of Patrick Stewart in stillsuit as Gurney Halleck in Dune*

Read that as Hal Gurnee
posted by JamesBay at 4:21 PM on May 23, 2019 [3 favorites]


That voice sounds really familiar; who is it?
posted by bq at 4:41 PM on May 23, 2019 [1 favorite]


Question for those watching "The Orville": I couldn't watch more than 15 minutes of the first episode. It was hacky, obvious, and unfunny, all the worst bits of Seth Mcfarlane's comedy ideas. Did it actually become watchable?

It has not! It's been remarkably awful throughout, but it swings between being awful in a few different ways; some episodes are just like plodding and boring Voyager scripts that never got made, some are straight up self-insert fanfic with weird ideas about women, some are 21yo-on-reddit-style new-atheist parables, and almost all are bereft of any originality. It's perversely fascinating to watch because of these traits, though yes, it's truly, truly wretched!
posted by Greg Nog at 4:54 PM on May 23, 2019 [8 favorites]


In a previous interview, showrunner Alex Kurtzman said this series will be more of a psychological exploration of Jean-Luc Picard

That isn't showrunner-speak for "the only way we could get Patrick on budget was to agree that he could do the shows in front of a green screen at his condo, pants-optional", is it?
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 5:02 PM on May 23, 2019 [3 favorites]


Braga betrayed Roddenberry’s vision with his whole Section 31 = Starfleet sekrit fascizms bullshit. The entire series was based on the premise of “in the 24th century, we won’t still be dealing with [insert any type of bigotry or mass human stupidity/evil here].”

I always found the premise interesting. Underneath that shiny tech utopia lays a secret faction that does the dirty work that supports that way of life.
posted by dr_dank at 5:10 PM on May 23, 2019 [6 favorites]


I always found the premise interesting. Underneath that shiny tech utopia lays a secret faction that does the dirty work that supports that way of life.

But that's the problem, the entire premise of Star Trek up until that point was that there doesn't have to be people doing the dirty work, because the dirty work doesn't have to be done for utopia to exist.

DS9 is my favorite trek by a lot, and I think their digging into the more questionable decisions and problems they face actually fleshes out the world in a great way, but that part always bugs me. It comes from a place antithetical to what Starfleet is, and a place I don't actually like emotionally or politically. It's more Jack Bauer than it is Trek.

Honestly, until they announced the new show about them, I was willing to accept section 31 as a shadowy-not-actually-starfleet-but-includes-starfleet-moles-organization, which I think DS9 sorta sets them up as. Now they are canon Starfleet, and that sucks.
posted by neonrev at 5:22 PM on May 23, 2019 [9 favorites]


Some version of S31 was a good idea, but it didn't turn out well, IMO.

On the one hand, there's definitely something rotten in the HQ of San Francisco. Evil Admirals such a cliche in the franchise that it'd be easier to list the ones who didn't turn out to be horrible in the end. On that level, it makes sense for there to be some dark dealings at the top of Starfleet.

Further, the tension of 'is this really as utopian as it claims' is interesting to me. I liked most of DS9's exploration of what their policies really meant, especially beyond their borders. Lots of messy compromises. I felt like that was a truer way to explore the universe than just taking for granted who was right and who was wrong.

I think where they lost the plot was in making S31 super cool and all powerful: superior tech, untouchable, always like five steps ahead of everyone. DSC is definitely pushing that way too far, and DS9 led the way by the end.

I think they should've stuck more with the kind of conspiracies we've seen before, like the military coup attempt in Homefront instead of making it so easy for S31 to develop misaimed fandom.
posted by mordax at 5:25 PM on May 23, 2019 [9 favorites]


To avoid abusing edit: this perspective is informed partly by my belief that Picard got Admiral status later than Janeway because he refused to commit genocide in I, Borg. We've seen some really dire perspectives high up the line, but they've never been so superior technologically. The Undiscovered Country was probably the most boundary pushing conspiracy we ever saw before this since that involved a Bird of Prey that could fire while cloaked, but that was more '20 minutes in the future' than 'wtf is even happening.'
posted by mordax at 5:30 PM on May 23, 2019 [4 favorites]


We don't know--the writers have said that this series will deal with the fallout from the destruction of Romulus in 2387 as seen in ST09

The destruction of Romulus to give angryfeels to the bad guy in Trek Babies Is even dumber and lazier than all of Nemesis, so this being built on that foundation is not looking great to me. Unless this like an investigation into why planets are always exploding for no reason in Trek, and maybe Earth is next, and actually dilitium crystals are alive they just move really slowly maybe like one of you will get this reference
posted by rodlymight at 5:31 PM on May 23, 2019 [5 favorites]


Reminds me of another trailer with a similar shot and the end and I'm mostly hoping for less space casinos capers in this.
posted by joeyh at 5:46 PM on May 23, 2019 [2 favorites]


3. CBS needs a big tent pole to attract people like me to its streaming platform.

I have repeatedly and publicly (here, for instance) sworn that it will be a cold day in hell before I pay CBS for a streaming channel when I already pay through the nose for a regular cable package which includes CBS.

Now there are at least 3 or 4 shows either currently or soon to be on All Access that I desperately want to watch. There are 0 shows on regular CBS that you could even pay me to watch. I hate CBS for doing this to me.
posted by Justinian at 5:56 PM on May 23, 2019 [6 favorites]


One vibe I got from the trailer was Le Carré's 'A Legacy of Spies'. Which I'd be perfectly happy seeing a version of through a TNG/DS9 lens…
posted by carsondial at 6:17 PM on May 23, 2019 [1 favorite]


an investigation into why planets are always exploding for no reason in Trek

I've got one word for you. Just one word. Are you listening? Protomatter.
posted by RobotVoodooPower at 6:35 PM on May 23, 2019 [4 favorites]


Justinian: cut the cord. If they're starving their cable channels and putting all the good stuff on a streaming channel, it's like they want you to, right?

The TPB thread is six doors down on the right.
posted by Leon at 6:40 PM on May 23, 2019 [7 favorites]


Question for those watching "The Orville": I couldn't watch more than 15 minutes of the first episode. It was hacky, obvious, and unfunny, all the worst bits of Seth Mcfarlane's comedy ideas. Did it actually become watchable?

Data point: I got 15 minutes into S02E01 before noping out. Something about a species that has to return to its home world to pee. Ho ho ho. I even got the reference, but... no. I guess I'll try again with S03E01.
posted by Leon at 6:48 PM on May 23, 2019 [1 favorite]


I haven't even taken the time to watch the trailer. I'm all in for this. However, CBS can shove their all access bullshit right up their asses. I'll find it on teh interwebs.
posted by evilDoug at 7:22 PM on May 23, 2019


I'm disappointed at the lack of character development and growth in Next Generation. The man's been through some really bad stuff so maybe immediately thrusting him back into command immediately after every incident wasn't the right answer! His literal physical wounds from the Borg weren't even healed when he was placed back on the bridge nevermind the psychic and emotional wounds!)

It feels weird to say this, but one of the things I love about Farscape is the way that trauma happens and affects the characters over time. But I just learned recently that this was an intentional response to the lack of emotions in ST:TNG.
posted by jb at 7:36 PM on May 23, 2019 [8 favorites]


Gentle reminder to all Metafilterians that we have Fanfare, a place to discuss our favorite teevee programs. Nothing on this new show yet, but once it starts broadcasting please check in and discuss with us!

On the Orville question, if I may try to summarize the Fanfare zeitgeist on that show it's that it's definitely improved and is pretty good TV. There's problems for sure, but it's way better than the awkard dopey first few episodes. A couple of the episodes are excellent and up there with any ST:TOS episode in terms of intelligence and presentation.

I'm also baffled why this Picard show is being made. But as someone who always wished he was part of the Patrick Stewart Estrogen Brigade I will of course work. But Movie Picard is horrible and if they go that way, ugh. I'd like a whole season of The Inner Light Picard, personally, but that would not actually work.
posted by Nelson at 7:50 PM on May 23, 2019 [1 favorite]


Braga betrayed Roddenberry’s vision with his whole Section 31 = Starfleet sekrit fascizms bullshit.

Let me tell you about "Roddenberry's vision", and how it almost killed the show. It was fine for Roddenberry to assert that humans/the Federation/Starfleet had solved a lot of problems that had bedeviled humanity for much of its history at least by the 24th century, if not the 23rd, and if not exactly going into a lot of detail as to how exactly those problems got worked through. (Their own version of Surak? Adequate ethical guidelines for public institutions? Keto diet?) The problem is that, by the beginning of TNG, Roddenberry was insisting that humanity had solved all its problems and had no room for conflict between its members. This had the dual effect of making it very difficult for writers to pitch stories to Roddenberry and of inadvertent space racism in offloading humanity's flaws onto various alien races; they were the ones who were greedy and war-loving and whatnot. People had to learn to pitch around Roddenberry's personal biases in order to get a script through (what Michael Piller referred to as fitting stories in "Roddenberry's Box"), although some people insist that it wasn't really Roddenberry that was the problem.

The writers and showrunners of DS9 had this idea: what if the high ideals and low interpersonal conflict of the Federation were part of the historical accident of being a more-or-less-post-scarcity society that hadn't had a major war in a while, and you start to pick around the edges of that? You put the show on a crappy semi-derelict space station where the replicators don't work half the time, and sometimes they end up running software that tries to kill you, and you're co-running the station with a species that doesn't really want you there, because the last interstellar power that they dealt with started out with rhetoric that sounded an awful lot like the Federation's but they ended up being space Nazis, and sometimes the sort of problem that would just end up with the reset button being hit on another show ends up pushing a character to the edge of suicide, and that's before the crew encounters Trek's other major Outside Context Problem. People are still people; humanity hasn't physically evolved that much (and has, with a very few exceptions, eschewed genetic engineering), and their general benevolence may be part of that historical accident. As a member of another species (one of the ones that's been given the role of humanity's sin-eater) notes, "Let me tell you something about Hew-mons, Nephew. They're a wonderful, friendly people, as long as their bellies are full and their holosuites are working. But take away their creature comforts, deprive them of food, sleep, sonic showers, put their lives in jeopardy over an extended period of time and those same friendly, intelligent, wonderful people... will become as nasty and as violent as the most bloodthirsty Klingon." (This, of course, is Quark talking to Nog during a siege in the middle of the war.)

So, yes, someone thought that Section 31 was a good idea. They were introduced in the episode before we find out that Sisko, the guy who had previously talked an admiral down from putting Earth under martial law, had indulged in a similar level of skulduggery in order to bring the Romulans into the war on their side. Plus, you have to remember that a lot of the affirmation of S31 comes from the group itself, via Sloan, and that the show draws the line at outright genocide. If it bums people out to contemplate that the show would even suggest going there, well, all I can tell you is that, in my half-century of Trek fandom, I've always been attracted to the idea that humanity still has to grow and struggle, and that part of that struggle is against their own nature and instincts, and that that's a far better fate than simply going to ground in a bottle society where Vaal or Landru always tell you what to do.

To bring it all back home, I'm speculating that one of the reasons behind Picard's retirement is that he may have come to his own hard choice... and not been able to deal with the consequences, for once. I look forward to finding what that is.
posted by Halloween Jack at 7:59 PM on May 23, 2019 [32 favorites]


"the only way we could get Patrick on budget was to agree that he could do the shows in front of a green screen at his condo, pants-optional"

So, it's too late - they've already seen everything ?
posted by Pogo_Fuzzybutt at 8:26 PM on May 23, 2019 [13 favorites]


There's a theory that's been mentioned here before (can someone dig it up? Female author I think?) that in the last couple of seasons of TNG the Federation's undergoing some serious upheavals - it's suddenly involved in wars that aren't just border skirmishes, but genuine existential threats (Halloween Jack's OCPs).

So out of necessity it puts itself on a war footing - the "take your family along!"-style shipbuilding goes on hold, and it starts cranking out ships like Defiant instead: weapons platforms with cloaking devices. The resurgence of S31 is just part of this realignment.

While the Federation's pivoting into a vastly more pragmatic organisation, the Enterprise crew is still running around out there, glad-handing ambassadors and going on occasional archaeological digs. The times change, they don't, and they become anachronisms - suffering from high-minded ideals in an era when high-minded ideals will get you killed.

It's not gonna happen, but wouldn't it be great if Picard got shoved out of Starfleet for being too damn perfect?
posted by Leon at 8:33 PM on May 23, 2019 [6 favorites]


hey were introduced in the episode before we find out that Sisko, the guy who had previously talked an admiral down from putting Earth under martial law, had indulged in a similar level of skulduggery in order to bring the Romulans into the war on their side.

Most of the skullduggery was Garak's. Sisko had intended to fake evidence that the Dominion was going to do something they almost certainly planned to do. Sisko blames himself because he is the generally morally upstanding captain who was in charge of the ruthless spy who went off script. Just because Sisko blames himself for not foreseeing the outcome, doesn't mean he's the moral equivalent of the Section 31 agent who would have embraced it. Quite the opposite.
posted by Zalzidrax at 9:37 PM on May 23, 2019 [2 favorites]


mordax: "I remain hopeful that ST:DSC is going to turn into a stealth reboot of Gene Roddenberry's Andromeda."

Picard is a stealth reboot of Earth: Final Conflict.
posted by Chrysostom at 10:07 PM on May 23, 2019 [1 favorite]


Where's Beverly?

Don’t worry about her, she’s Crushing it.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 10:31 PM on May 23, 2019 [7 favorites]


*Insert picture of Patrick Stewart in stillsuit as Gurney Halleck in Dune*

HE IS NOT A NUMBER! HE IS A FREMEN!


I basically came to propose that the real show that needs to be made is a retroactive focus on the Atreides Battle Pug that follows it from little a puppers to... well, that scene in Lynch's Dune with Halleck charging into battle with one very fat and confused looking pug.

Ideally entirely from the perspective of said battle pug.
posted by loquacious at 10:32 PM on May 23, 2019 [3 favorites]


Well, I'm back to my first-watch of Enterprise (2001-2005), only 18 years or so behind the zeitgeist. I can't wait until 2029, when I can start GoT.

jb, I'm not sure if you know this but the Star Trek: Enterprise FanFare watch is on season 2 right now.
posted by ActingTheGoat at 11:49 PM on May 23, 2019 [1 favorite]


If it's going to start out as retired Picard, it's almost certainly going to become Picard thrown into the middle of action and dragged back into service officially or as a guerilla or whatever. People are not going to watch Picard grow grapes.

Of course, it could be just a series of flashbacks. "I remember the time when..." and then he sips some more wine while they show a rerun of a Next Generation episode while Picard adds increasingly drunken commentary.
posted by pracowity at 1:44 AM on May 24, 2019 [14 favorites]


Based on the track record of how the Star Trek franchise has been (mis)handled in the 21st century, I give this a 10% chance of being any good.
posted by fairmettle at 2:56 AM on May 24, 2019


Of course, it could be just a series of flashbacks. "I remember the time when..." and then he sips some more wine while they show a rerun of a Next Generation episode while Picard adds increasingly drunken commentary.

(oh please, oh please, oh please)

Including drunk-dial interludes to High Chancellor Worf, shouts to the kitchen for more snacks from his robo-butler B-4 and sobbing confessions of how he was usually making it up as he went along.
posted by Molesome at 4:29 AM on May 24, 2019 [8 favorites]



In a previous interview, showrunner Alex Kurtzman said this series will be more of a psychological exploration of Jean-Luc Picard

That isn't showrunner-speak for "the only way we could get Patrick on budget was to agree that he could do the shows in front of a green screen at his condo, pants-optional", is it?


It's either producer-speak for "The insurance companies won't let us shoot too many action sequences with a 78-year-old leading man" or producer-speak for "Boy oh boy oh boy you have no idea how thoroughly we're going to fuck with this beloved character because edgy and disruptive and Red Wedding is Prestige TV."
posted by soundguy99 at 5:02 AM on May 24, 2019 [1 favorite]


Did it actually become watchable?

Not for me! I heard the stumping for the show by other Trek-aligned MeFites and checked it out again, trying each episode in s01 and the first few of s02 and Greg Nog’s take on it above reflects mine. No shade on you guys that dig it - it just ain’t my cuppa blood wine.

I was thinking about the lean toward Grimtrek the DSC / S31 producers seem to be bent on and realized that a possible premise for this new show is essentially Maréchal Picard, modeling on Maréchal Pétain in Vichy France, where a neofascist or collaborationist regime comes to power and appoints the great heroic leader of the last war to preside over the submisssion, suppression, and dissolution of the democratic liberties and republican ideals of the state. I mean, it better not be that. But that is a topic of the moment, innit?
posted by mwhybark at 6:02 AM on May 24, 2019 [1 favorite]


It's not gonna happen, but wouldn't it be great if Picard got shoved out of Starfleet for being too damn perfect?

This seems like as good an opportunity as any to re-surface my favorite TNG head-canon:
I subscribe to the theory of Trek (which someone else developed, I forget who but I read it here) that TNG is an aberration in its own universe. Like, all the values we believe are Federation values-peaceful exploration, evolved sensibilities, ethical obligations, etc.--were only ever true on Picard's ship. The entire rest of the Federation were rotten hypocrites, and the episodes read that way convincingly.

Think of every conflict Picard & crew has with other humans: remember the time when the Federation put Data on trial to prove he was property? I've lost count of how many times an admiral was secretly supplying rebels somewhere with arms. Everyone else is violating the prime directive like it's going out of style, and Picard is the only one wringing his hands. I seem to recall an episode of Voyager where they encounter another Federation vessel trying to get home, and they were like, "oh yeah we committed a bunch of genocide on some aliens because it made our engine faster, nbd."

DS9 is less "Trek" but in my reading more true to the actual Federation. The Enterprise is the USS Lollipop. Meanwhile everyone else in the universe gets their hands dirty.
posted by Mayor West at 6:11 AM on May 24, 2019 [19 favorites]


Like, all the values we believe are Federation values-peaceful exploration, evolved sensibilities, ethical obligations, etc.--were only ever true on Picard's ship. The entire rest of the Federation were rotten hypocrites, and the episodes read that way convincingly.

And it makes perfect sense from the Federation's standpoint. Put all the try-hard do-gooders (and the Klingon, and the robot) on the "flagship" and send it on random diplomatic and exploration missions, put it in the recruiting materials and promotional videos. Meanwhile, the rest of Starfleet can get down to the real dirty work of building an empire.
posted by Rock Steady at 6:45 AM on May 24, 2019 [3 favorites]


Re: The Orville- Yes, season 1 is an awful lot of face-palmey Seth MacFarlane trying to shoehorn poorly-timed Seth MacFarlane jokes into every scene. There were opportunities to really shine and tell a thought-provoking story (Bortus' child) that really fell kind of flat. But by the end of Season 1, the show started to find its stride, and Season 2 got a lot better. Not always great, but a lot better. It has its flaws, and I think it'd be a better show if Seth MacFarlane had never touched it, but there are elements that I really like. The crew are sometimes dumbasses. They get drunk and show up for work hungover. They make inappropriate jokes, or share too much while telling a story. They're fundamentally flawed, just like us. I always thought ST:TNG came across as just a little too perfect, unbelievably so. I'd like to think that even centuries from now, humans are still going to be making some really dumb choices and telling fart jokes, and that's what The Orville delivers.
posted by xedrik at 6:48 AM on May 24, 2019


Good god can we just not with the "Federation is actually evil" shit? I just want one nice thing okay
posted by Automocar at 7:00 AM on May 24, 2019 [12 favorites]


I feel pity for an unknown CBS exec.

Because there's a certain someone out there, and while he'll make out he's really happy for Stewart, and doesn't care at all otherwise, inside he's seething and aggrieved, and he's picked up the phone, and he's firing off the emails, and he's lobbying that CBS exec hard for Star Trek: Kirk.
posted by Devonian at 7:12 AM on May 24, 2019 [8 favorites]


That voice sounds really familiar; who is it?
My guess is Gina Torres.
The point of Star Trek - and frankly most sci-fi - is to explore what happens after we get our current, known, unbelievably shitty problems as a species squared away.
OG Star Trek for sure, but most SF? That's sooooo limiting. Also, the thing about utopias is that they are intensely inhuman and exclusionary. Without exploring that shadow side they're also incredibly boring.
posted by Fish Sauce at 7:27 AM on May 24, 2019 [1 favorite]


I, for one, am hoping the whole series is episode after episode of Shades of Grey, where Picard falls while farming in the first episode and the rest of the series is him on a six bay table strapped into a flashback device while we all watch a TNG clip show.
posted by The World Famous at 8:06 AM on May 24, 2019


I guess I'm a lapsed Trek fan now. Grew up with TOS reruns, dug both TNG and DS9 in first run syndication, and found Voyager and Enterprise worth watching, though uneven. Have seen all the TOS and TNG films and generally enjoyed them, though of course some are better than others and there are one or two real stinkers in there. The first nu-Trek movie with Chris Pine et al was fun, but those films have delivered drastically diminishing returns since then.

And now I think of myself as lapsed because I've had no interest in checking out ST:Discovery, in large part because it's streaming-only on CBS' craptastic proprietary service.

If it were available on broadcast or on one of the streaming services I'm already paying for, I might have at least tried an episode or two. But there's no way I'm paying for an additional channel to watch it or, as much as I've enjoyed Patrick Stewart's past performances, this new Picard show.

(I've never watched The Orville, because Seth MacFarlane.)
posted by Nat "King" Cole Porter Wagoner at 8:24 AM on May 24, 2019 [4 favorites]


I listened to it again last night and also guessed Gina Torres! I guess that means she is in the cast?
posted by bq at 10:02 AM on May 24, 2019


I listened to it again last night and also guessed Gina Torres! I guess that means she is in the cast?

It's possible, but she hasn't been announced, and she has a Suits spinoff coming in the summer.
posted by Etrigan at 11:41 AM on May 24, 2019


I would like to originate some new Internet slang:

dh;nc

(didn't hear;no captions)
posted by Soliloquy at 1:31 PM on May 24, 2019 [7 favorites]


My circle of friends theorized that All Good Things was alluding to Picard being a Q; John deLancy was juuust about to tell him something and then decided not to. An outside shot for sure but just putting it out there.

On another note, as a TOS / TNG fan who never watched any DS9 / Voyager, can anyone help me get into those since I hear such neat things especially the later seasons. For some reason I can watch TNG start to finish a billion times but the thought of watching one DS9 makes me want to scratch my eyes out. Yet I feel like I’m missing so much.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 1:33 PM on May 24, 2019


Picard is a stealth reboot of Earth: Final Conflict.

Hahaha, I'd watch.

all I can tell you is that, in my half-century of Trek fandom, I've always been attracted to the idea that humanity still has to grow and struggle, and that part of that struggle is against their own nature and instincts, and that that's a far better fate than simply going to ground in a bottle society where Vaal or Landru always tell you what to do.

Excellent point, in particular because we see one such bottle society in great detail in the franchise: on VOY, nobody ever questions 'the Starfleet way,' and it results in bad decision after worse decision, time after time. I mean, they fall over themselves to ally with Space Nazis at every available opportunity.

We only see better behavior, (in the franchise, IRL, wherever), where people have to work it out the hard way, and really think through the implications of their actions.
posted by mordax at 2:08 PM on May 24, 2019 [2 favorites]


as a TOS / TNG fan who never watched any DS9 / Voyager, can anyone help me get into those

DS9: The best place to start is the last episode of Season Two, as an ersatz pilot introducing negotiation with the opposite-side-of-the-galaxy equivalent to Starfleet, The Dominion: "The Jem'Hadar." Season III then sloooowly builds on that story in stops and starts, and gets sloooowly better, and then Seasons 4/5/6 are very very good. Season 7 is okay but kind of falls off since one of the main characters is gone and then it feels like they run out of time to tell the story they wanted to tell at the very end (the show has a clear resolution, it's just a bit rushed). But if you start at the end of Season Two, you've got basically one pretty-good season ahead of you plus three really really good seasons plus an uneven-but-okay season to finish it.

I've seen about half of Voyager over all of the seasons, and never found any period that grabbed me enough to watch all of it, so I can't help you there.

I've seen all of Discovery, and though it started in a kind-of intriguing way, it slid into pretty bad by like halfway through season one, and I would not recommend the show at all.

Do not watch the Orville under any circumstances.
posted by Greg Nog at 5:25 PM on May 24, 2019 [4 favorites]


I've always been attracted to the idea that humanity still has to grow and struggle, and that part of that struggle is against their own nature and instincts, and that that's a far better fate than simply going to ground in a bottle society where Vaal or Landru always tell you what to do.

Or as Kirk said:

“We’re human beings with the blood of a million savage years on our hands! But we can stop it. We can admit that we’re killers . . . but we’re not going to kill today. That’s all it takes! Knowing that we’re not going to kill — today!”
posted by Pryde at 9:08 PM on May 24, 2019 [1 favorite]


showrunner Alex Kurtzman

All hope I had for this show disappeared in just three words. Kurtzman is the showrunner for ST: Discovery and Hawaii Five-O. Along with Scorpion and Sleepy Hollow, all his shows have a habit of starting out great but quickly running out of good ideas by the end of the first season.
posted by dances with hamsters at 9:23 PM on May 24, 2019 [1 favorite]


Man, remember "Conspiracy?" That episode of TNG where there was gonna be a whole evil Fifth Column in Starfleet but Roddenberry wouldn't let it happen because Humanity Was Perfect, and so it was evil alien parasites at fault, and the storyline lasted for one episode instead of being a fascinating ongoing background problem through the series?

I've said it before and I'll say it again: we'd never, ever, ever have gotten DS9 if Roddenberry hadn't kicked it before the team got to work creating that show. I'll love the man forever for giving us Trek, but thank fuck he died when there was growing power behind the budding franchise movement, and some fresh(ish) blood came in and gave us the best Trek series.

(Voyager still wins for Most Perfect Trek Theme Music though.)
posted by tzikeh at 9:29 PM on May 24, 2019 [5 favorites]


That voice sounds really familiar; who is it?
My guess is Gina Torres.


um, isn’t it Sonequa Martin-Green, who stars as Michael Burnham in Star Trek: Discovery?
posted by mwhybark at 7:52 AM on May 25, 2019


can anyone help me get into those since I hear such neat things especially the later seasons.

Certainly.

Voyager Duffer's Guide

DS9 Duffer’s Guide

Hit it, as Captain Pike says.
posted by mwhybark at 8:00 AM on May 25, 2019 [2 favorites]


Good god can we just not with the "Federation is actually evil" shit? I just want one nice thing okay

EXACTLY. If I want to be steeped in "the basic premise of any society is that intelligent life is fundamentally, irredeemably awful and can never improve itself," I can turn to, well, pretty much everywhere else in today's entertainment media. Optimism and idealism are what used to make Trek worth watching, and we need it more than ever.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 9:13 AM on May 25, 2019 [5 favorites]


I've said it before and I'll say it again: we'd never, ever, ever have gotten DS9 if Roddenberry hadn't kicked it before the team got to work creating that show

I agree, but I see that as a negative. DS9 is where I went sour on televised Star Trek. I watched for a few years out of loyalty, but the enjoyable episodes got steadily rarer and rarer until I just couldn't give a hoot anymore. It got to be too much like all the other grimdark trash being cranked out by others at the time.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 9:18 AM on May 25, 2019 [1 favorite]


I've seen about half of Voyager over all of the seasons, and never found any period that grabbed me enough to watch all of it, so I can't help you there

I watched all of it a few years back and I can't either, not because none of it was good but because none of it was so consistently tight and memorable that I remember where those bits were. It's a strange and frustrating show in a lot of ways coming along after DS9 had made it's mark.

DS9 managed to take TNG's conflict-avoidant, syndication-friendly problems and do good work on them, giving the core cast some genuine friction and the individual characters some actual internal problems that they lived with and struggled with over the course of seasons. It brought character arcs and serialized story-telling into the Star Trek universe and basically brought the franchise into the modern era of television because of it, at the cost of finding its way a little slowly early on in the process of building that up.

The thing about Voyager is that it seemed to be trying to take some of that new approach to complex characters and interpersonal conflicts and problems that can't be cleanly resolved in a single episode, and import it back into a TOS/TNG setting of starship romping vs. being moored to a space station. Have an excuse to combine long-form character stories with the older more flexible formula of encounter-of-the-week. Which was a good idea, and when it works it's pretty good! And Janeway is great, and some of the other characters are interesting and fun and have their moments.

But Voyager falls down a lot on the continuity problem; there's character development but a lot of it just ends up going blip after all. There's serial narrative developments but a lot of them just sort of go poof. Major things happen and then a couple episodes later they might as well not have. Characters endure massive, life-changing trauma and then just, whelp, I guess we'll never talk about that or have the character be emotionally affected by that once we're three episodes on. It's a surprising and frustrating regression on a show directly following DS9. I feel like with all the other parts in place but a more determined and steady and committed vision driving the long-haul through-line of the show Voyager could have been really remarkable. At some of it's strongest character and narrative points you can see the sort of stuff that made Battlestar Galactica so compelling peeking through, and then you see Ron Moore's name in the credits and it's like, oh, this scans.
posted by cortex at 9:19 AM on May 25, 2019 [5 favorites]


cortex: Agreed, whole-heartedly on Voyager. The premise has a _lot_ of potential: a ship stranded in unknown territory with limited resources, a combined crew with limited numbers and plenty of potential internal strife, trying to balance the Prime Directive with the need to survive, and so much more... and it was squandered. Maybe the new season of Discovery can fulfill some of that promise.
posted by SansPoint at 12:01 PM on May 25, 2019


French Trekkies are up in arms:
SCANDALE !!!! Dans le trailer de Star Trek : Picard, le vin "Chateau Picard" indiqué "Bourgogne" est dans une bouteille de Bordeaux.
Some are predicting that this will be the basis of a huge plot twist...
posted by ZipRibbons at 12:32 PM on May 25, 2019 [11 favorites]


Section 31 was best when you were never sure if it actually existed or if it was just some some dude. Once you have it confirmed by outside sources and popping up in prequels and the reboot movies it's just terrible.
posted by ckape at 1:28 PM on May 25, 2019 [2 favorites]


Also if CBS is looking for more spinoff ideas, I have a few.
posted by ckape at 1:54 PM on May 25, 2019


Another cruel reminder that we're being cheated out of Rikers in Space.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 2:06 PM on May 25, 2019 [2 favorites]


The first few seasons of DS9 were good as well as good Trek. The rest of it was mostly good, but was mostly not Trek, but instead some other show that just so happened to have the same crew. When it became difficult to tell the mirror universe episodes apart from the rest in terms of style and themes it ceased to be Star Trek, IMO.
posted by wierdo at 3:04 PM on May 25, 2019


Rikers in Space is going to be a spinoff of Picard.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:51 PM on May 25, 2019 [1 favorite]


And of course you know he will... er, date himself.

The unbeareded one is going to convince the bearded one to shave it off.

Twist: beared Riker is unbearded down below, unbearded Riker is au naturel.
posted by porpoise at 10:53 PM on May 25, 2019




Nothing will ever top that lovable 1960's TV spinoff from the original Star Trek series.
posted by fairmettle at 2:43 AM on May 26, 2019 [3 favorites]


SCANDALE !!!! Dans le trailer de Star Trek : Picard, le vin "Chateau Picard" indiqué "Bourgogne" est dans une bouteille de Bordeaux.

Any other Friends of DeSoto out here who also read that in the voice of outraged Vichy French guy?
posted by The World Famous at 9:45 PM on May 26, 2019


So we're still going with the idea that the dude with the strong British accent, who idolizes Horatio Nelson and Trafalgar, who is a Shakespeare buff and saw himself in the role of Henry V before Agincourt, and who drinks Earl Grey tea is actually French? We're just gonna keep on pretending this makes sense?
posted by Justinian at 1:59 AM on May 27, 2019 [6 favorites]


Wee.
posted by pracowity at 2:07 AM on May 27, 2019 [3 favorites]


okay
posted by Justinian at 2:16 AM on May 27, 2019


We never saw Mirror Universe Picard, did we? I'll bet he has a goatee and a French accent. Perhaps even a goatée.
posted by XMLicious at 2:18 AM on May 27, 2019 [2 favorites]


Goat-tay
posted by St. Peepsburg at 3:27 AM on May 27, 2019


We never saw Mirror Universe Picard, did we? I'll bet he has a goatee and a French accent. Perhaps even a goatée.

There was a comic book version.
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 3:54 AM on May 27, 2019


Comic book cover with Mirror Universe Picard. Note, also kinda swole.
posted by ZeusHumms at 6:34 AM on May 28, 2019 [3 favorites]


i am a goateeologyst and i can tell you from looking at the lack of sun damage on mirror universe picard's goatee that his vineyard will be dead within a year.
posted by lazaruslong at 6:37 AM on May 28, 2019 [2 favorites]


So we're still going with the idea that the dude with the strong British accent, who idolizes Horatio Nelson and Trafalgar, who is a Shakespeare buff and saw himself in the role of Henry V before Agincourt, and who drinks Earl Grey tea is actually French? We're just gonna keep on pretending this makes sense?

And who doesn't seem to notice that his sometimes-girlfriend's name is the French word for "cow."
posted by The Underpants Monster at 8:08 AM on May 28, 2019 [2 favorites]


The farmer and the cowman should be friends.
Oh, the farmer and the cowman should be friends.
One man likes to trim his vines, the other likes to plough his cow,
But that's no reason why they cain't be friends.
posted by Nelson at 8:51 AM on May 28, 2019 [2 favorites]


Comic book cover with Mirror Universe Picard. Note, also kinda swole.

I haven't read it, but half-borg Data and Bene Gesserit Troi looks pretty freaking cool
posted by Ray Walston, Luck Dragon at 9:00 AM on May 28, 2019


The farmer and the cowman should be friends.
Oh, the farmer and the cowman should be friends.
One man likes to trim his vines, the other likes to plough his cow,
But that's no reason why they cain't be friends.


One of my Oklahoma! castmates told me a "'Scuse me while I kiss this guy" story about growing up listening to that song on the cast album. Instead of:

"Cowboys dance with the farmer's daughters;
Farmers dance with the ranchers' gals"

She thought it was:

"Cowboys dance with the farmer's daughters;
Farmers dance with the ranchers' cows"
posted by The Underpants Monster at 10:28 AM on May 28, 2019


Comic book cover with Mirror Universe Picard.

Wow. BDSM Jeremy Corbyn in Fred Freiberger's Boobs In Space.

Don't let anyone from production see that cover. Just... don't.
posted by Devonian at 12:15 PM on May 28, 2019 [1 favorite]


Lee Edwards: "My only question is why the Picard family vineyard switch from VSP trained vines to the Guyot system between TNG episode “Family” and this series. As LaBarre is in Bourgogne, I’d have expected Guyot the whole time, but why switch?"

His subsequent thread picks apart all the errors in ST: Picard's vinticulture/vinification, if you thought the technobabble physics in ST:TNG was bad.
posted by Doktor Zed at 11:47 AM on May 29, 2019 [4 favorites]


I'm just gonna MST3k Mantra the whole wine discussion.
posted by SansPoint at 11:52 AM on May 29, 2019


Metafilter: MST3K Mantra the whole discussion
posted by ZeusHumms at 4:28 AM on May 30, 2019 [1 favorite]


Didn't the place burn down offscreen during Generations? That could explain why it's different now than it looked in Family.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 10:01 AM on May 30, 2019


Star Trek: Deep Space Vine
posted by Devonian at 9:39 AM on June 2, 2019 [5 favorites]


You know what I would actually love? A Twilight Zone-esque series with different settings, actors, and characters every episode--but entirely set within the Star Trek universe. Set in all manner of time periods (and galactic quadrants!), drawing on lore from every series, and adding to canon in unexpected ways. "Star Trek: Lost Frontiers" or something.
posted by duffell at 5:59 PM on June 14, 2019 [5 favorites]


Or maybe season-length, like I gather American Horror Story did.
posted by Chrysostom at 6:57 PM on June 14, 2019


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