The man who’s going to save your neighborhood grocery store
May 29, 2019 8:09 AM Subscribe
There is no (or few) actual local grocers. It's all chains. Fuck em, the lot of them.
posted by evilDoug at 8:50 AM on May 29, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by evilDoug at 8:50 AM on May 29, 2019 [1 favorite]
Chicagoland has many, many groceries that are local/regional, and virtually all of the most successful ones share the same strategy:
Acknowledge ethnic people exist.
That's it. Take note of what diverse people want and can't find elsewhere and stock that. Polish food. Korean food. (Real) Mexican food. Bulgarian food.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:54 AM on May 29, 2019 [45 favorites]
Acknowledge ethnic people exist.
That's it. Take note of what diverse people want and can't find elsewhere and stock that. Polish food. Korean food. (Real) Mexican food. Bulgarian food.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:54 AM on May 29, 2019 [45 favorites]
People move differently. They browse differently. And they buy differently. Rather than progressing in a linear fashion, the way a harried customer might shoot down an aisle — Kelley hates aisles, which he says encourage rushed, menial shopping — customers zig-zag, meander, revisit. These behaviors are a sign a customer is “experimenting,” engaging with curiosity and pleasure rather than just trying to complete a task.
I....don't really look for pleasure at the grocery store? I look for groceries?
Okay, maybe as we start to spend all our goddamn time online we do look for "pleasure" on those few occasions when we leave the house, interact with others and handle physical objects, so the grocery store de facto becomes a destination business. If true, that makes me sad.
~~
In one sense, yes, it does me good to get out of the house and be around people, so I'd say that actually going to the grocery store is preferable to awaiting a delivery. But that's not because I go to the grocery store for an experience that is designed to be pleasurable, "experimental", etc.(And I find it pretty sad that the only sources of pleasure, "experiment" and curiosity in peoples lives seem to be the most banal of commercial enterprises.) I feel like I just want regular experiences. Like, when I go to the gym I just want to use the equipment, I don't need it to be "experimental". The experience, the movement, the non-mediated interactions with others are enough in themselves.
~~
More and more I really hate the culture of "experiences instead of things" because it's given rise to this idea that everything has to be completely curated and managed. There's no room for any non-commercial process, any randomness, any sign of time or wear; everything has to be designed and maintained in line with a "vision". The "experiences" that people boast of are just pre-packaged and, and phony, like those stupid installations that are designed so that you can take pictures for Instagram in them. And now even the fucking grocery store has to get us to "engage with pleasure".
I just want some potatoes. Leave my goddamn soul alone.
posted by Frowner at 9:03 AM on May 29, 2019 [60 favorites]
I....don't really look for pleasure at the grocery store? I look for groceries?
Okay, maybe as we start to spend all our goddamn time online we do look for "pleasure" on those few occasions when we leave the house, interact with others and handle physical objects, so the grocery store de facto becomes a destination business. If true, that makes me sad.
~~
In one sense, yes, it does me good to get out of the house and be around people, so I'd say that actually going to the grocery store is preferable to awaiting a delivery. But that's not because I go to the grocery store for an experience that is designed to be pleasurable, "experimental", etc.(And I find it pretty sad that the only sources of pleasure, "experiment" and curiosity in peoples lives seem to be the most banal of commercial enterprises.) I feel like I just want regular experiences. Like, when I go to the gym I just want to use the equipment, I don't need it to be "experimental". The experience, the movement, the non-mediated interactions with others are enough in themselves.
~~
More and more I really hate the culture of "experiences instead of things" because it's given rise to this idea that everything has to be completely curated and managed. There's no room for any non-commercial process, any randomness, any sign of time or wear; everything has to be designed and maintained in line with a "vision". The "experiences" that people boast of are just pre-packaged and, and phony, like those stupid installations that are designed so that you can take pictures for Instagram in them. And now even the fucking grocery store has to get us to "engage with pleasure".
I just want some potatoes. Leave my goddamn soul alone.
posted by Frowner at 9:03 AM on May 29, 2019 [60 favorites]
By 2025, the thinking goes, most Americans will rarely enter a grocery store.
Read that whole paragraph. 2025 is only 5 years from now. LOL!
But this paragraph makes me really like the guy and I hope his version of the future succeeds:
"What interested Kelley most was how people would use his buildings, not how the structures would fit into the skyline. .... while commercial spaces, the places where we actually go to buy, often had no design principle beyond brute utility?"
Unfortunately, the store owner is only thinking about parking. Got to put in more spaces, without realizing that a giant parking lot makes a store look worse architecturally, makes it more likely that people will assume the store has few customers (people hate shopping in giant places by themselves), besides that navigating giant parking lots are exactly what people are trying to get away from by getting stuff delivered.
posted by The_Vegetables at 9:03 AM on May 29, 2019 [5 favorites]
Read that whole paragraph. 2025 is only 5 years from now. LOL!
But this paragraph makes me really like the guy and I hope his version of the future succeeds:
"What interested Kelley most was how people would use his buildings, not how the structures would fit into the skyline. .... while commercial spaces, the places where we actually go to buy, often had no design principle beyond brute utility?"
Unfortunately, the store owner is only thinking about parking. Got to put in more spaces, without realizing that a giant parking lot makes a store look worse architecturally, makes it more likely that people will assume the store has few customers (people hate shopping in giant places by themselves), besides that navigating giant parking lots are exactly what people are trying to get away from by getting stuff delivered.
posted by The_Vegetables at 9:03 AM on May 29, 2019 [5 favorites]
So there's this fairly well-known diagram in the food research world, which points out that agribusiness in the US is part of a chain of commerce that forms an hourglass, with the distributors and selling points being the thin part of the hourglasses.
And getting the guy who redesigned whole foods doesn't make me think, oh, this will save small stores. It makes me think, hey, some stores will be for rich people, and have a nicer experience inside the stores. But that food will come from the middle of the hourglass, and that's the problem.
posted by The River Ivel at 9:04 AM on May 29, 2019 [3 favorites]
And getting the guy who redesigned whole foods doesn't make me think, oh, this will save small stores. It makes me think, hey, some stores will be for rich people, and have a nicer experience inside the stores. But that food will come from the middle of the hourglass, and that's the problem.
posted by The River Ivel at 9:04 AM on May 29, 2019 [3 favorites]
It's all chains. Fuck em, the lot of them
Maybe -- but I would have killed for an H Mart when I lived in Miami.
posted by theory at 9:09 AM on May 29, 2019 [8 favorites]
Maybe -- but I would have killed for an H Mart when I lived in Miami.
posted by theory at 9:09 AM on May 29, 2019 [8 favorites]
Online grocery shopping is just a weird idea to me. I still shop at the tiny mom-and-pop corner grocery a two-minute walk away, where most of the food is behind the counter, you ask the woman behind the counter for a kilo of this and a can of that, and she rings the things up one by one as she gets it and put it on the counter in front of you and you stuff it in your bag. There's enough room for maybe five people to stand in line, but most of the time there is no line. It's pretty much the same with the bakery down the block, and the newsagent across the corner, and the liquor store, and, though I don't eat meat, there's a butcher on the same block for those who do.
That's the shopping experience I want to preserve: step out my door, walk to the store, buy a bagful or two of things from someone I know, and carry it home, all in five or ten minutes. No car, no parking, no giant lines. But I don't expect it to last much longer unless the little stores start getting stock on pallets from a central warehouse like the convenience store chains do, and then all the little stores will start to look and feel like the chains and be done in by the chains.
posted by pracowity at 9:14 AM on May 29, 2019 [4 favorites]
That's the shopping experience I want to preserve: step out my door, walk to the store, buy a bagful or two of things from someone I know, and carry it home, all in five or ten minutes. No car, no parking, no giant lines. But I don't expect it to last much longer unless the little stores start getting stock on pallets from a central warehouse like the convenience store chains do, and then all the little stores will start to look and feel like the chains and be done in by the chains.
posted by pracowity at 9:14 AM on May 29, 2019 [4 favorites]
There is no (or few) actual local grocers. It's all chains. Fuck em, the lot of them.
The article doesn't even mention that your "friendly neighborhood grocer" is likely to be part of a massive supply chain like Supervalu or Coborn's -- being one further step up in ownership doesn't make the 'local' store more 'local'.
So, then the issue is more that Wal-Mart isn't building smallish grocery stores where people live, rather than just being a huge market share vs 'the little guy'.
posted by AzraelBrown at 9:14 AM on May 29, 2019 [6 favorites]
The article doesn't even mention that your "friendly neighborhood grocer" is likely to be part of a massive supply chain like Supervalu or Coborn's -- being one further step up in ownership doesn't make the 'local' store more 'local'.
So, then the issue is more that Wal-Mart isn't building smallish grocery stores where people live, rather than just being a huge market share vs 'the little guy'.
posted by AzraelBrown at 9:14 AM on May 29, 2019 [6 favorites]
I'm lucky in that not only do I have a grocery store that I can walk to, I have three grocery stores I can walk to, along with a couple nicer bodegas where I can get fancier stuff, and a produce stand. Buying groceries is a nothingburger of a task for me. If I need one or two things, it's 10-15 minute task. To do grocery delivery would be an utter waste. Why should UPS drop off a box of paper towels when I can get all the paper towels I need in a short walk? Admittedly, I live in a very big city, but I don't live in a terribly upscale or fancy area, and none of the three grocery stores aren't Whole Foods.
Of course, I'm well aware this is not the typical situation for most Americans. Either they live in a food desert without grocery stores, or they have to drive to somewhere to buy groceries. Making grocery stores nicer is not going to benefit either group. If you can't get to a grocery store, even the nicest, fanciest, prettiest, Grocery Shopping Experience isn't gonna help you. It's solving the wrong problem at the wrong level. We need more, smaller, grocery stores serving more people, not fancier stores optimized for a "shopping experience." Let people get in, get their stuff, and get the fuck out.
posted by SansPoint at 9:17 AM on May 29, 2019 [5 favorites]
Of course, I'm well aware this is not the typical situation for most Americans. Either they live in a food desert without grocery stores, or they have to drive to somewhere to buy groceries. Making grocery stores nicer is not going to benefit either group. If you can't get to a grocery store, even the nicest, fanciest, prettiest, Grocery Shopping Experience isn't gonna help you. It's solving the wrong problem at the wrong level. We need more, smaller, grocery stores serving more people, not fancier stores optimized for a "shopping experience." Let people get in, get their stuff, and get the fuck out.
posted by SansPoint at 9:17 AM on May 29, 2019 [5 favorites]
2025 is only 5 years from now. LOL!
It'd be like if Netflix started streaming movies and Blockbuster was gone within five years.
(Stop laughing. It took six.)
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:18 AM on May 29, 2019 [13 favorites]
It'd be like if Netflix started streaming movies and Blockbuster was gone within five years.
(Stop laughing. It took six.)
posted by DirtyOldTown at 9:18 AM on May 29, 2019 [13 favorites]
I'm lucky enough to live a one block walk away from one of those Chicago neighborhood grocery stores that DirtyOldTown references above. It's pretty much frill-free (except for having great, cheap produce), but it's one of the things that makes my neighborhood feel lively, accessible, and like a true community. It's also incredibly convenient and allows for more day-to-day shopping, rather than biweekly stock-ups. I wish more people were able to experience the convenience and pleasure of this kind of urban amenity. I definitely don't take it for granted.
posted by merriment at 9:21 AM on May 29, 2019 [3 favorites]
posted by merriment at 9:21 AM on May 29, 2019 [3 favorites]
It'd be like if Netflix started streaming movies and Blockbuster was gone within five years.
Yes, if Netflix bested Blockbuster with automated cars (mentioned) with sensors installed in your DVD player determining the next movie that would be loaded from your Netflix queue.
posted by The_Vegetables at 9:21 AM on May 29, 2019 [2 favorites]
Yes, if Netflix bested Blockbuster with automated cars (mentioned) with sensors installed in your DVD player determining the next movie that would be loaded from your Netflix queue.
posted by The_Vegetables at 9:21 AM on May 29, 2019 [2 favorites]
It’s a well-known industry secret that Costco stores are hugely expensive to construct — they’re designed to resemble fantasy versions of real-life warehouses, and the appearance of thrift doesn’t come cheap.Is this really true? The Motley Fool article it links to doesn't support this "looking thrifty is expensive" conclusion; it says only that Costco buildouts are expensive because their stores are big.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 9:22 AM on May 29, 2019 [2 favorites]
the non-mediated interactions
Unfortunately those can't be quantified and reduced to a simple metric; if they can't be measured then they don't exist.
posted by Greg_Ace at 9:24 AM on May 29, 2019 [2 favorites]
Unfortunately those can't be quantified and reduced to a simple metric; if they can't be measured then they don't exist.
posted by Greg_Ace at 9:24 AM on May 29, 2019 [2 favorites]
The depressing state of things is that I do have a completely independent grocery store just four blocks away from me that I'd love to patronize, and it's... terrible. The meat is brown in the case, the fruits and vegetables are sub-par - all the while, the prices are a third higher than the local (chain-owned) groceries. Shopping there means paying 33% more for 75% less. This isn't a bodega, it's a real neighborhood grocer. I've tried my best to patronize them, and the quality is deeply disappointing every time.
This isn't the case everywhere, but man, is it disappointing when you want to patronize your local independent and it's just plain bad.
posted by I EAT TAPAS at 9:33 AM on May 29, 2019 [13 favorites]
This isn't the case everywhere, but man, is it disappointing when you want to patronize your local independent and it's just plain bad.
posted by I EAT TAPAS at 9:33 AM on May 29, 2019 [13 favorites]
My local independent is the shit and sells three different kinds of locally roasted coffee and locally made kombucha and local produce and eggs and cheese and so on and etc. and it's packed all the goddamn time and if they got rid of the aisles in favor of some boutiquey set-up that would further encourage shoppers who are not me to plod over and stop in front of me and take up a permanent position right in my way and ponder for full minutes at a time which dragon fruit to pick up and put in their basket... well, it wouldn't be an improvement. Supposedly customers zig-zag, meander, revisit. Those behaviors all sound kind of fast and dynamic. Whereas in my experience what customers best like to do is stand still growing ever larger until they obliterate everything else in the store with their stolid, motionless, timeless inmywayness. Aisles. Wide ones. Aisles forever.
posted by Don Pepino at 10:00 AM on May 29, 2019 [4 favorites]
posted by Don Pepino at 10:00 AM on May 29, 2019 [4 favorites]
I still shop at the tiny mom-and-pop corner grocery a two-minute walk away, where most of the food is behind the counter, you ask the woman behind the counter for a kilo of this and a can of that, and she rings the things up one by one as she gets it and put it on the counter in front of you and you stuff it in your bag.
I think the only time I have seen a shopping experience like this it has been at immersive museums that do historical reenactments of the 1800s, like Black Creek Pioneer Village.
posted by Secret Sparrow at 10:01 AM on May 29, 2019 [11 favorites]
I think the only time I have seen a shopping experience like this it has been at immersive museums that do historical reenactments of the 1800s, like Black Creek Pioneer Village.
posted by Secret Sparrow at 10:01 AM on May 29, 2019 [11 favorites]
anem0ne, the ones in Chicagoland are often pan-ethnic. I mean, we've got H Mart, sure. And Patel Brothers, too. But our area has a ton of neighborhood groceries and local chains of two to five stores that try to check all of the boxes for the local population. In the city, you see smaller ones whose locals can't be lured to a bigger chain store if the place down the street has #favoredethnicfooditem. In the burbs, they're bigger but people treat them like destinations.
My spouse loves Valli stores here and she buys her kolozsvári bacon right next to where Indian people get their paneer, and where Greek people get to choose from a dozen kinds of filo dough. And then plain old WASP people come in and are pleased by the interesting choices and the low prices on produce and meat.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:04 AM on May 29, 2019 [1 favorite]
My spouse loves Valli stores here and she buys her kolozsvári bacon right next to where Indian people get their paneer, and where Greek people get to choose from a dozen kinds of filo dough. And then plain old WASP people come in and are pleased by the interesting choices and the low prices on produce and meat.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 10:04 AM on May 29, 2019 [1 favorite]
Don Pepino: Whereas in my experience what customers best like to do is stand still growing ever larger until they obliterate everything else in the store with their stolid, motionless, timeless inmywayness. Aisles. Wide ones. Aisles forever.
I don't know where you live, but my northeastern city-boy ass has no compunction against going "Excuse me" loud enough to startle the deer-in-the-headlights people when I need to just grab my damn item and move on. Sadly, that doesn't work when someone doesn't know how to use the damn self-checkout machines.
posted by SansPoint at 10:05 AM on May 29, 2019 [1 favorite]
I don't know where you live, but my northeastern city-boy ass has no compunction against going "Excuse me" loud enough to startle the deer-in-the-headlights people when I need to just grab my damn item and move on. Sadly, that doesn't work when someone doesn't know how to use the damn self-checkout machines.
posted by SansPoint at 10:05 AM on May 29, 2019 [1 favorite]
I am lucky to have a variety of grocery options but they all have fatal flaws, and if I’m ever making a complicated recipe I somehow end up going to every one of them - Whole Foods for meat or produce*, the local chain for things like bulk flour and sugar, the mom and pop for weird condiments (they might not have eggs or butter today but they always seem to have tarragon vinegar and German mustard).
* I might just be biased but I really feel like the quality and variety of produce at WF has nosedived since the Amazon purchase.
posted by sallybrown at 10:11 AM on May 29, 2019
* I might just be biased but I really feel like the quality and variety of produce at WF has nosedived since the Amazon purchase.
posted by sallybrown at 10:11 AM on May 29, 2019
I'm pretty much reduced to chains where I live. Wal*Mart, Meijer, Kroger, Aldi. There's a Fresh Thyme and Trader Joe's a short-ish special trip away, too. There aren't any "local" stores, save for a small Indian market and a small taqueria/bodega near the TJ's.
Only the Wal*Mart, Meijer, and Aldi are anything close to a walkable distance away, but, since there aren't any walkways or sidewalks, "walkable distance" is a moot point. Given that I'd have to ride along the berm of a highway, biking it with a load of groceries is a bit of tough proposition, too.
That said, I would really hate buying groceries online, at least not produce and anything else one would normally have to visually evaluate. Sure, the online grocers could cherry-pick produce so they sell only the most perfect, photogenic items, but that would seem to ensure that a lot more non-perfect produce would go to waste than does already.
posted by Thorzdad at 10:27 AM on May 29, 2019 [3 favorites]
Only the Wal*Mart, Meijer, and Aldi are anything close to a walkable distance away, but, since there aren't any walkways or sidewalks, "walkable distance" is a moot point. Given that I'd have to ride along the berm of a highway, biking it with a load of groceries is a bit of tough proposition, too.
That said, I would really hate buying groceries online, at least not produce and anything else one would normally have to visually evaluate. Sure, the online grocers could cherry-pick produce so they sell only the most perfect, photogenic items, but that would seem to ensure that a lot more non-perfect produce would go to waste than does already.
posted by Thorzdad at 10:27 AM on May 29, 2019 [3 favorites]
DirtyOldTown: "Acknowledge ethnic people exist.
That's it. Take note of what diverse people want and can't find elsewhere and stock that. Polish food. Korean food. (Real) Mexican food. Bulgarian food."
Easier said than done. You need a supply chain to back that up, and that supply chain needs to be efficient and expansive enough that you aren't managing accounts with dozens of vendors, and coordinating daily deliveries from each of them, while also being able to offer competitive prices. Margins on groceries are already razor-thin, thanks to the efficiencies that big chains have managed to achieve – a good thing if you want to eat, but a bad thing if you're an independent grocer (or want to buy the weird stuff).
NYC doesn't have fantastic "ethnic" food because of its independent grocers. It has fantastic food because of the acres of warehouses and importers in Brooklyn and New Jersey that are owned and staffed by established immigrant communities. These businesses also face the threat of consolidation and acquisition, although that story is a lot less transparent to the average person.
I'm also not sure how to feel about it, TBH. I briefly worked in the industry – it's an unglamorous, cutthroat, low-margin business that's still filled with corruption, brazenly-illegal labor practices, literal-actual-Nazis, and organized crime.
Also, lol at "By 2025, the thinking goes, most Americans will rarely enter a grocery store." -- We were saying this in 2000 about Webvan, Priceline, and Peapod. Despite spending two decades on the problem, we have been unable to transfer the experience of shopping for groceries in a physical store to an online storefront.
OTOH, I'm not particularly cynical about the future of the industry. The (extensive and super-invasive) marketing bullshit that large grocery chains try to pull off appears to be hitting the point of negative returns, and consumers seem to be reacting to it. The chains like Aldi and Trader Joes that don't play these games are among the most successful at the moment. TJ's, for instance, puts frequently-purchased items at eye-level, rather than putting high-margin items in those places, and doesn't auction end-caps off to their suppliers.
posted by schmod at 10:29 AM on May 29, 2019 [12 favorites]
That's it. Take note of what diverse people want and can't find elsewhere and stock that. Polish food. Korean food. (Real) Mexican food. Bulgarian food."
Easier said than done. You need a supply chain to back that up, and that supply chain needs to be efficient and expansive enough that you aren't managing accounts with dozens of vendors, and coordinating daily deliveries from each of them, while also being able to offer competitive prices. Margins on groceries are already razor-thin, thanks to the efficiencies that big chains have managed to achieve – a good thing if you want to eat, but a bad thing if you're an independent grocer (or want to buy the weird stuff).
NYC doesn't have fantastic "ethnic" food because of its independent grocers. It has fantastic food because of the acres of warehouses and importers in Brooklyn and New Jersey that are owned and staffed by established immigrant communities. These businesses also face the threat of consolidation and acquisition, although that story is a lot less transparent to the average person.
I'm also not sure how to feel about it, TBH. I briefly worked in the industry – it's an unglamorous, cutthroat, low-margin business that's still filled with corruption, brazenly-illegal labor practices, literal-actual-Nazis, and organized crime.
Also, lol at "By 2025, the thinking goes, most Americans will rarely enter a grocery store." -- We were saying this in 2000 about Webvan, Priceline, and Peapod. Despite spending two decades on the problem, we have been unable to transfer the experience of shopping for groceries in a physical store to an online storefront.
OTOH, I'm not particularly cynical about the future of the industry. The (extensive and super-invasive) marketing bullshit that large grocery chains try to pull off appears to be hitting the point of negative returns, and consumers seem to be reacting to it. The chains like Aldi and Trader Joes that don't play these games are among the most successful at the moment. TJ's, for instance, puts frequently-purchased items at eye-level, rather than putting high-margin items in those places, and doesn't auction end-caps off to their suppliers.
posted by schmod at 10:29 AM on May 29, 2019 [12 favorites]
I may be in the minority, but I love grocery shopping. I love cooking at home as well, which may be related. I am absolutely someone who can spend a couple of hours in a good grocery store. Harris Teeters used to be a chain in the metro Atlanta area but I'm pretty sure Publix bought them out (or Whole Foods, I have no idea.) And I can kill the better part of a day in a Whole Foods or a Fresh Market.
I can't walk to a grocery store, and I usually do the bulk of our household shopping once a month, which involves several markets. I like Publix, but they like Whole foods are out of my price range for anything but special items. Walmart in store or Target aren't much better. I do most of my basics shopping at Aldi and the local international Market (Nam Dae Mun) to cover the whole meat, dairy, fish, eggs, pasta, rice and veg, but neither of them are really fun to spend a lot of time in, for all that they are cheap and efficient. My mid range store is Kroger which is well stocked and hey, gas credit, but also not always a pleasant experience despite in store sushi and a Starbucks.
Whole foods is my once or twice a year go-to for the big feasts: the west coast worthy cioppino I make at Christmas, which demands the freshest seafood and let us not forget the lobster (which I can rarely find anywhere else.) I could order directly from the main fishermen, but the one time I did, the timing didn't work out and I ended up having to toss half the mussels and the lobster was mealy because I had to cook it a day earlier than I intended. (I know - the horror of first world feasts...) But I start saving in October for that feast - because I can't spend $100 on a single meal unless there's a recall good reason.
All of which is to say, I would love to have something like Harvest Market near me, where I could go and shop, and taste and try new things, and sit down and have a cup of coffee while looking at the flyers. (I am admittedly addicted to Aldi weekly flyers.) I have and do order online from time to time, but generally for stuff it's hard to find locally, or stuff so ubiquitous (Like paper towels) that I don't feel like I need to "shop" for the best price. But there's also the convenience of being able to stop at one of the literally dozen of places between home and work, if we happen to need another half gallon of milk or another loaf of bread, or pick up a tooth brush because the 5 year old dropped hers in the toilet *again*.
It's just, yes, the whole experience marketing thing may be a bit of a mistaken redirect from the entire make more money with fewer amenities, but my lower middle class/upper lower class dreams do include a place where grocery shopping stops being something I “have” to do, and becomes a thing I “get” to do again. It’s not so much social as it is something that needs to be done fairly routinely, it’s a practical task, and it’s always more fun if there’s something about the routine that you look forward to regardless of the necessity of it.
posted by allandsome at 10:36 AM on May 29, 2019 [3 favorites]
I can't walk to a grocery store, and I usually do the bulk of our household shopping once a month, which involves several markets. I like Publix, but they like Whole foods are out of my price range for anything but special items. Walmart in store or Target aren't much better. I do most of my basics shopping at Aldi and the local international Market (Nam Dae Mun) to cover the whole meat, dairy, fish, eggs, pasta, rice and veg, but neither of them are really fun to spend a lot of time in, for all that they are cheap and efficient. My mid range store is Kroger which is well stocked and hey, gas credit, but also not always a pleasant experience despite in store sushi and a Starbucks.
Whole foods is my once or twice a year go-to for the big feasts: the west coast worthy cioppino I make at Christmas, which demands the freshest seafood and let us not forget the lobster (which I can rarely find anywhere else.) I could order directly from the main fishermen, but the one time I did, the timing didn't work out and I ended up having to toss half the mussels and the lobster was mealy because I had to cook it a day earlier than I intended. (I know - the horror of first world feasts...) But I start saving in October for that feast - because I can't spend $100 on a single meal unless there's a recall good reason.
All of which is to say, I would love to have something like Harvest Market near me, where I could go and shop, and taste and try new things, and sit down and have a cup of coffee while looking at the flyers. (I am admittedly addicted to Aldi weekly flyers.) I have and do order online from time to time, but generally for stuff it's hard to find locally, or stuff so ubiquitous (Like paper towels) that I don't feel like I need to "shop" for the best price. But there's also the convenience of being able to stop at one of the literally dozen of places between home and work, if we happen to need another half gallon of milk or another loaf of bread, or pick up a tooth brush because the 5 year old dropped hers in the toilet *again*.
It's just, yes, the whole experience marketing thing may be a bit of a mistaken redirect from the entire make more money with fewer amenities, but my lower middle class/upper lower class dreams do include a place where grocery shopping stops being something I “have” to do, and becomes a thing I “get” to do again. It’s not so much social as it is something that needs to be done fairly routinely, it’s a practical task, and it’s always more fun if there’s something about the routine that you look forward to regardless of the necessity of it.
posted by allandsome at 10:36 AM on May 29, 2019 [3 favorites]
Grocery shopping for a lot of neurodiverse people, including me, already takes fucking forever.
In addition to the low prices, the small layout is why I'm a huge Aldi fan. Now that I'm familiar with the layout, I can browse every item in the store in about 15 minutes. One reason it's undergoing a huge expansion, "on track to become America’s third largest supermarket chain behind Walmart and Kroger."
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 10:50 AM on May 29, 2019 [4 favorites]
In addition to the low prices, the small layout is why I'm a huge Aldi fan. Now that I'm familiar with the layout, I can browse every item in the store in about 15 minutes. One reason it's undergoing a huge expansion, "on track to become America’s third largest supermarket chain behind Walmart and Kroger."
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 10:50 AM on May 29, 2019 [4 favorites]
Blockbuster didn’t fail because everybody wanted only to stream movies and/or found Redbox and its kiosk peers a suitable substitute. It failed because enough people did that it couldn’t sustain the fixed cost of large stores and huge inventory.
Grocery margins are so low, and so much of the costs are fixed (and themselves rising because of sky-rocketing unskilled and semi-skilled labor pricing), that you have to see that industry as mortally threatened by online + delivery. Suburbs will be the first to fall, because they’re the sweet spot of dense but easily-delivered-to single family homes and inexpensive consumer delivery warehouse space. Rural areas and cities will sustain brick and mortar grocery longer because low and very high density each make the unit cost of a online purchase + delivery model more expensive than suburbs.
posted by MattD at 10:56 AM on May 29, 2019 [3 favorites]
Grocery margins are so low, and so much of the costs are fixed (and themselves rising because of sky-rocketing unskilled and semi-skilled labor pricing), that you have to see that industry as mortally threatened by online + delivery. Suburbs will be the first to fall, because they’re the sweet spot of dense but easily-delivered-to single family homes and inexpensive consumer delivery warehouse space. Rural areas and cities will sustain brick and mortar grocery longer because low and very high density each make the unit cost of a online purchase + delivery model more expensive than suburbs.
posted by MattD at 10:56 AM on May 29, 2019 [3 favorites]
I cannot picture myself buying fresh food online. Processed, packaged stuff, maybe, but I'm not going to trust some underpaid stranger to pick the best-looking meat or produce for me. I think they'd have an incentive to clear their inventory of the old, damaged stuff first. Will they do what I do, and open the egg carton to make sure none of them are broken?
As for the aisle-hating design to promote meandering and experimentation, I'm in the get-my-stuff-and-get-out camp. Put stuff in the way of my doing that, and I won't like it.
(people hate shopping in giant places by themselves)
Not this person. I prefer to go to the local Market Basket soon after it opens, when the parking lot and store are mostly empty. Not too early, because I want the shelves to be stocked, but well before the masses arrive.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 11:01 AM on May 29, 2019 [5 favorites]
As for the aisle-hating design to promote meandering and experimentation, I'm in the get-my-stuff-and-get-out camp. Put stuff in the way of my doing that, and I won't like it.
(people hate shopping in giant places by themselves)
Not this person. I prefer to go to the local Market Basket soon after it opens, when the parking lot and store are mostly empty. Not too early, because I want the shelves to be stocked, but well before the masses arrive.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 11:01 AM on May 29, 2019 [5 favorites]
The chains like Aldi and Trader Joes that don't play these games are among the most successful at the moment. TJ's, for instance, puts frequently-purchased items at eye-level, rather than putting high-margin items in those places, and doesn't auction end-caps off to their suppliers.
Trader Joes and Aldi are not good business models for other grocery stores to follow. Both, outside of a select few communities, have low price per sq ft sales (Aldi moreso than Trader Joes), much lower than your traditional grocery stores in middle income areas and way below WalMart and Costco, which is bad because they are much smaller and more product focused. You might expect that of Aldi, because they are aiming for the lower end of the market, but expecting them to the saviors of the grocery industry just isn't happening.
Will they do what I do, and open the egg carton to make sure none of them are broken Yes, they actually do do that, but if you think Uber prices are exploitative, how much do you think the average person (not the wealthy) would be able to pay for a service like that, and is that a price that finds the best eggs or just grabs and throws stuff into a cart as fast as possible?
posted by The_Vegetables at 11:18 AM on May 29, 2019
Trader Joes and Aldi are not good business models for other grocery stores to follow. Both, outside of a select few communities, have low price per sq ft sales (Aldi moreso than Trader Joes), much lower than your traditional grocery stores in middle income areas and way below WalMart and Costco, which is bad because they are much smaller and more product focused. You might expect that of Aldi, because they are aiming for the lower end of the market, but expecting them to the saviors of the grocery industry just isn't happening.
Will they do what I do, and open the egg carton to make sure none of them are broken Yes, they actually do do that, but if you think Uber prices are exploitative, how much do you think the average person (not the wealthy) would be able to pay for a service like that, and is that a price that finds the best eggs or just grabs and throws stuff into a cart as fast as possible?
posted by The_Vegetables at 11:18 AM on May 29, 2019
I cannot picture myself buying fresh food online. Processed, packaged stuff, maybe, but I'm not going to trust some underpaid stranger to pick the best-looking meat or produce for me. I think they'd have an incentive to clear their inventory of the old, damaged stuff first. Will they do what I do, and open the egg carton to make sure none of them are broken?
Interestingly, when I used to live Inside the Beltway and used Peapod, I had a really great experience with produce (no meat eaters in my household, so no data there). Almost everything was fresher, less damaged, and better looking. My theory was that the same warehouse was filling the orders for the Peapod deliveries and the physical stores, so by using Peapod, you were cutting 1-2 days and a lot of abuse out of the produce lifecycle. Not sure if that's true or not; I'd love to hear from someone in the industry.
posted by god hates math at 11:19 AM on May 29, 2019 [2 favorites]
Interestingly, when I used to live Inside the Beltway and used Peapod, I had a really great experience with produce (no meat eaters in my household, so no data there). Almost everything was fresher, less damaged, and better looking. My theory was that the same warehouse was filling the orders for the Peapod deliveries and the physical stores, so by using Peapod, you were cutting 1-2 days and a lot of abuse out of the produce lifecycle. Not sure if that's true or not; I'd love to hear from someone in the industry.
posted by god hates math at 11:19 AM on May 29, 2019 [2 favorites]
True story: one of the reasons why I can't move is because I don't want to lose my completely awesome co-op. I genuinely don't know how it would change my grocery experience if I had to rely solely on chain supermarkets.
posted by thivaia at 11:22 AM on May 29, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by thivaia at 11:22 AM on May 29, 2019 [2 favorites]
I hate going to the grocery store but I've used Instacart a few times and I always feel incredibly gross about it and ripped off at the same time. And it doesn't really save any time because it takes so much longer to pick out items and deal with the messages from the "shopper" telling me they don't have soft pretzels but I can replace them with kaiser rolls (what?)
posted by Automocar at 11:22 AM on May 29, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by Automocar at 11:22 AM on May 29, 2019 [1 favorite]
For some reason I can't get into a groove with Aldi; even though I've tried it a few times I just don't like it much. But I'll shop the hell out of Trader Joe's. And I am totally fine with shopping at a chain, BUT I do demand some quality. Target is the biggest player around here, we do a ton of shopping at their superstores, but they CONSTANTLY disappoint me. Even my 10 year old jokes that Target's motto is "remember that cool new grocery item you loved last week? We discontinued carrying it." They are constantly out of stock for so many things we go to buy, they have drastically reduced the variety of brands they stock, and for a Minnesota-based company to have a busy flagship store in Minnesota and not stock a SINGLE variety of apple that was actually fucking grown in Minnesota is just insane. I get crap trucked in from god knows where, which is ridiculous. The reduction in brand variety is maddening. Yes, I get that only carrying store brand products increases their bottom line, but choosing between store brand and NOTHING is not a choice. If they want me to buy the store brand product they should make it better quality. I have no clue what the production quality is, what the ethics behind it are, how they source it, etc. - If my only option is Market Pantry I'll spend my money elsewhere.
My wife says she doesn't like when I bounce between 5 different stores for groceries, but by god if going to another (smaller) chain allows me to buy locally-grown produce, and have a selection of brands I actually prefer, I'm going to do it. We have the luxury of being able to pick from a variety of stores (within easy driving distance of us there's SuperTarget, Fresh Thyme, Trader Joe's, Whole Foods, Aldi, WalMart [even though I refuse to shop there on general principle], Cub, and 3-4 other regional or local chain stores PLUS a few locally-owned places, including one within walking distance owned by a guy who grew up in the neighborhood). I know how lucky we are to have that kind of choice. I regularly vote with my dollars to support the places that carry products I prefer to buy - local, organic, and ethically raised, whenever possible.
posted by caution live frogs at 11:24 AM on May 29, 2019 [2 favorites]
My wife says she doesn't like when I bounce between 5 different stores for groceries, but by god if going to another (smaller) chain allows me to buy locally-grown produce, and have a selection of brands I actually prefer, I'm going to do it. We have the luxury of being able to pick from a variety of stores (within easy driving distance of us there's SuperTarget, Fresh Thyme, Trader Joe's, Whole Foods, Aldi, WalMart [even though I refuse to shop there on general principle], Cub, and 3-4 other regional or local chain stores PLUS a few locally-owned places, including one within walking distance owned by a guy who grew up in the neighborhood). I know how lucky we are to have that kind of choice. I regularly vote with my dollars to support the places that carry products I prefer to buy - local, organic, and ethically raised, whenever possible.
posted by caution live frogs at 11:24 AM on May 29, 2019 [2 favorites]
I won’t use Instacart after shopping alongside Instacart employees who just shove produce in a bag without checking it out and don’t do things like check the egg carton to make sure stuff isn’t broken. My guess is the pay is really low or based on turnaround time or something, because they’re always rushing around at high speed (which also explains to me why hard-to-find items might get marked as unavailable when they actually aren’t). I realize this system sucks for people in these jobs and for people who need to use these services because they lack the mobility or time to grocery shop.
posted by sallybrown at 11:30 AM on May 29, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by sallybrown at 11:30 AM on May 29, 2019 [2 favorites]
Last year, I was without a car for about a month, so I decided to experiment with a few different online grocery delivery systems. A few takeaways.
Positive
Negative
"Hey Jeremias, I'm trying to let customers know that our pay is based on tips and the system defaults this to 5%, but a lot of people don't know that they can change that. So I urge you if you are completely satisfied with my service from shopping to delivery please change to desired percentage because not everyone knows that can be changed. thank you!"
There's something wrong with a system that would trigger the need for such a message. This was before Instacart recently changed their policies after widespread criticism. I'm not sure if this has truly improved, but my distaste was enough for me to go back to my old ways, even if it means having to stand at the deli counter.
posted by jeremias at 11:30 AM on May 29, 2019 [7 favorites]
Positive
- I'm the primary cook in my household, and I have to say I appreciated the efficiency of being able to choose the exact ingredients I needed for the recipe at hand.
- I'm pretty tech-savvy, but there is still something mindblowing about clicking pictures of food on a screen and having said items show up on your doorstep two hours later.
- This benefit almost made the whole thing worth it: having someone else order and pick up at the deli counter. Waiting in linefor, say, sliced cheese, is one of my least favorite experiences. No, I don't socialize , like everyone else I silently swear at the person at front of me for taking twice as long as they should in order to choose between smoked and roast turkey.
Negative
- The amount of extraneous packaging to protect the cold items made me feel like an environmental monster. Part of me wanted to appreciate that they were preventing my food from spoiling by wrapping it in insulated covers, but in reality I just felt guilt.
- At first I thought I might be saving money, or at least breaking even, because I was eliminating impulse buys, but I think that "benefit" is wiped out by the higher overhead, not to mention that creating artificial demand is something that the folks in my web design world are unfortunately getting better at.
- The biggest reason I don't see me using these services again was the feeling I was contributing to the evils of the gig economy. Here's an actual text message I received from the "shopper" handling and delivering my order.
"Hey Jeremias, I'm trying to let customers know that our pay is based on tips and the system defaults this to 5%, but a lot of people don't know that they can change that. So I urge you if you are completely satisfied with my service from shopping to delivery please change to desired percentage because not everyone knows that can be changed. thank you!"
There's something wrong with a system that would trigger the need for such a message. This was before Instacart recently changed their policies after widespread criticism. I'm not sure if this has truly improved, but my distaste was enough for me to go back to my old ways, even if it means having to stand at the deli counter.
posted by jeremias at 11:30 AM on May 29, 2019 [7 favorites]
me, I have foresworn experiences and things
posted by salt grass at 11:33 AM on May 29, 2019 [6 favorites]
posted by salt grass at 11:33 AM on May 29, 2019 [6 favorites]
> I still shop at the tiny mom-and-pop corner grocery a two-minute walk away, where most of the food is behind the counter, you ask the woman behind the counter for a kilo of this and a can of that, and she rings the things up one by one as she gets it and put it on the counter in front of you and you stuff it in your bag.
Oh god, I would die. My family eats about 10,000 calories a day and I do all the grocery shopping. I wouldn't get anything else done.
posted by The corpse in the library at 11:52 AM on May 29, 2019 [2 favorites]
Oh god, I would die. My family eats about 10,000 calories a day and I do all the grocery shopping. I wouldn't get anything else done.
posted by The corpse in the library at 11:52 AM on May 29, 2019 [2 favorites]
getting the guy who redesigned whole foods doesn't make me think, oh, this will save small stores
It makes me think, Oh, here's the MF-er responsible for the continually deteriorating experience over the past few years!
posted by praemunire at 12:06 PM on May 29, 2019 [4 favorites]
It makes me think, Oh, here's the MF-er responsible for the continually deteriorating experience over the past few years!
posted by praemunire at 12:06 PM on May 29, 2019 [4 favorites]
I, not young, enjoy grocery shopping at my local Market Basket. I have a list and get the usual stuff for kids' lunches, basics, and so on. But if I don't have anything else going on I'll take my time, see what new stuff there is, and take a few chances on a few things. I don't mind the small aisles or harsh lighting. . Market Basket is a joy if you don't need a cafe or stir-fry bar or house-churned butter (which I would totally buy, let's be honest). It had better survive this apparently imminent shopocalypse or I'll be forced to go to Shaw's (expensive, but admittedly good looking and often quite empty).
My co-worker, who is young, orders his groceries from Walmart online. He drives up, the app tells the store where he in the parking lot, and someone brings his stuff out and plunks it into his trunk. I cannot even imagine him dealing with walking up and down aisles.
posted by schoolgirl report at 12:11 PM on May 29, 2019 [1 favorite]
My co-worker, who is young, orders his groceries from Walmart online. He drives up, the app tells the store where he in the parking lot, and someone brings his stuff out and plunks it into his trunk. I cannot even imagine him dealing with walking up and down aisles.
posted by schoolgirl report at 12:11 PM on May 29, 2019 [1 favorite]
I don't like buying groceries... but I don't dislike it either. It's a net neutral, something I have to do and can do without usually a great deal of muss or fuss for the reasons I explained upthread. For something mundane I have to do on a regular basis, that's kind of the ideal. I don't want a special, curated, fancy experience, I just want to do it and be done.
posted by SansPoint at 12:28 PM on May 29, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by SansPoint at 12:28 PM on May 29, 2019 [2 favorites]
I cannot picture myself buying fresh food online. Processed, packaged stuff, maybe, but I'm not going to trust some underpaid stranger to pick the best-looking meat or produce for me. I think they'd have an incentive to clear their inventory of the old, damaged stuff first. Will they do what I do, and open the egg carton to make sure none of them are broken?
Fresh Direct, ime, does really well with this. Sometimes an egg will get smushed in transit but it's rare. When I am in a pineapple frenzy and buy 4 of them, there's always 1 or 2 that are ready right away and the rest will take the rest of the week to reach max pineapple perfection, so there's no pressure to eat all 4 in 2 days, which is definitely not something I have ever done anyway.
Grocery stores in my neighborhood are getting better but it's still stressful and annoying to shop at them if I end up having to go to more than one store for the things I want. I am currently more physically able to do so than in the past but it's still... idk. I'm still a little stuck in the mindset that if I overexert myself on monday, I won't physically recover until thursday, and it's a low level but frequent anxiety that is probably very familiar to anyone with chronic pain.
posted by poffin boffin at 12:44 PM on May 29, 2019 [3 favorites]
Fresh Direct, ime, does really well with this. Sometimes an egg will get smushed in transit but it's rare. When I am in a pineapple frenzy and buy 4 of them, there's always 1 or 2 that are ready right away and the rest will take the rest of the week to reach max pineapple perfection, so there's no pressure to eat all 4 in 2 days, which is definitely not something I have ever done anyway.
Grocery stores in my neighborhood are getting better but it's still stressful and annoying to shop at them if I end up having to go to more than one store for the things I want. I am currently more physically able to do so than in the past but it's still... idk. I'm still a little stuck in the mindset that if I overexert myself on monday, I won't physically recover until thursday, and it's a low level but frequent anxiety that is probably very familiar to anyone with chronic pain.
posted by poffin boffin at 12:44 PM on May 29, 2019 [3 favorites]
a pineapple frenzy
posted by Greg_Ace at 1:06 PM on May 29, 2019 [4 favorites]
posted by Greg_Ace at 1:06 PM on May 29, 2019 [4 favorites]
Seattle area has Metropolitan Market, a local premium grocery with seven locations. When my relatives visit from out of town they actually volunteer to go get groceries from there because the produce section is so strikingly beautiful. It's like shopping for fruit and veg in a dream. Of course, you pay for the privilege.
I still shop for my own groceries when I can, because I'm pickier than delivery-service shoppers about produce. We eat a lot of berries and I feel like more often than not when I order groceries there are a whole bunch of moldy berries in there that could have been avoided with careful inspection.
posted by potrzebie at 1:12 PM on May 29, 2019 [2 favorites]
I still shop for my own groceries when I can, because I'm pickier than delivery-service shoppers about produce. We eat a lot of berries and I feel like more often than not when I order groceries there are a whole bunch of moldy berries in there that could have been avoided with careful inspection.
posted by potrzebie at 1:12 PM on May 29, 2019 [2 favorites]
TBH the only thing I enjoy about visiting grocery stores is the manager's special/clearance section where I get to see what random-ass weird seasonal or expired items have been discounted. That's always entertaining for me.
Wish Aldi had plans to expand to the area I live in now; it was easily my favorite regular shopping experience in that it was fast, affordable, and predictable but still had the fun seasonal stuff in the middle aisle to provide some novelty.
posted by asperity at 1:15 PM on May 29, 2019
Wish Aldi had plans to expand to the area I live in now; it was easily my favorite regular shopping experience in that it was fast, affordable, and predictable but still had the fun seasonal stuff in the middle aisle to provide some novelty.
posted by asperity at 1:15 PM on May 29, 2019
being one further step up in ownership doesn't make the 'local' store more 'local'.
From an economic standpoint, local ownership actually has a pretty huge impact; various studies indicate that locally-owned stores put dramatically more money back into the local economy than chain stores. (Which is not too surprising given that the whole purpose of chain stores is to siphon as much revenue as possible to wherever the HQ is.)
posted by shenderson at 1:53 PM on May 29, 2019 [2 favorites]
From an economic standpoint, local ownership actually has a pretty huge impact; various studies indicate that locally-owned stores put dramatically more money back into the local economy than chain stores. (Which is not too surprising given that the whole purpose of chain stores is to siphon as much revenue as possible to wherever the HQ is.)
posted by shenderson at 1:53 PM on May 29, 2019 [2 favorites]
Amazon isn't killing the bodegas and smaller grocery stores here, developers are doing that all by themselves by buying up the property, kicking the store out, and leaving the place vacant while they work out the logistics of clearing the land, plopping a building down, and leaving the new structure vacant until someone with no business sense is willing to meet their unsustainably high ask on the rent.
posted by wierdo at 1:57 PM on May 29, 2019 [8 favorites]
posted by wierdo at 1:57 PM on May 29, 2019 [8 favorites]
Sort of surprised not to see any mention of Wegmans in comments here, and only one in the Kevin Kelley piece. I feel like Wegmans has figured out the secret sauce more than anywhere else, to the point that my family used to make a special side trip on annual road trips to New York to visit relatives, and I will still make periodic special trips now that they've worked their way to the DC area (yet still not within a sub-30-minute drive...sigh). The stores are consistently clean and pleasant, the food bar is excellent enough that I've had cheap dates there, and you can have the high-interaction cheese/deli/bakery experience with Real Humans, or just head on through to the aisles, grab what you need from the normal unpretentious food shelves, and get out. Plus, little trains. They also apparently don't treat their employees like dirt, at least based on the ones I've heard from. I actually think Wegmans is a much better example for a widely appealing brand image/experience than Whole Foods, especially after the Amazon acquisition.
posted by bowtiesarecool at 2:10 PM on May 29, 2019 [5 favorites]
posted by bowtiesarecool at 2:10 PM on May 29, 2019 [5 favorites]
We have used Walmart grocery pickup for camping groceries and holiday groceries (both seem to take forever). We have used pick up at both Hy-Vee and Coborn's in the past. I have never been disappointed in the produce, but there have been a few expiration date issues. Each time, the refunds were fast and came with apology. Even if the gig apps worked in our town, I still prefer to have the workers at the actual store shopping and packing for me as they know it best. I want Cub Foods to start offering it in my town. The cabin that we go to once a year is outside a town with 2 grocery stores: Walmart and Trig's. We will use Walmart this year since they have grocery pickup, but I would totally use Trig's if they had it (only floral and gift basket orders are online). One could make a killing delivering a week's worth of supplies to the vacationers around Minocqua, alone, not to mention daily alcohol drop offs.
posted by soelo at 2:10 PM on May 29, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by soelo at 2:10 PM on May 29, 2019 [1 favorite]
Sort of surprised not to see any mention of Wegmans in comments here
Wegman's, where the sign over the line reads "15 Items Or Fewer"
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 2:20 PM on May 29, 2019 [11 favorites]
Wegman's, where the sign over the line reads "15 Items Or Fewer"
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 2:20 PM on May 29, 2019 [11 favorites]
The vacation thing is interesting to me, because back in the 80s my parents owned a share in a house in Sandbridge Beach, and there was a local grocery store that had a program where you could give them an order ahead (I think it must have been by phone, email was only barely a thing at this point) and pick up the groceries on your way into town. It always puzzled me that similar programs never became popular until the last few years.
posted by tavella at 2:27 PM on May 29, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by tavella at 2:27 PM on May 29, 2019 [1 favorite]
I want to plug for our local grocery chain, HEB. They are pretty dominant in Texas, and have fought off Walmart years ago. My neighborhood HEB is housed a beautiful building that gets a lot of natural light, and I love being inside of it. Their curb pickup option is very popular, and the stores have been expanding their single-serve prepared meal offerings. I don't know if changes like these are enough to fend off purely online grocers, but I certainly hope so.
(Ranch 99 and H Mart both opened branches in Austin last year, and I no longer envy my friends in Houston who have so many Asian grocery stores to choose from. These stores are also on my please-don't-go list, along with Trader Joe's and Sprouts.)
posted by of strange foe at 2:35 PM on May 29, 2019 [3 favorites]
(Ranch 99 and H Mart both opened branches in Austin last year, and I no longer envy my friends in Houston who have so many Asian grocery stores to choose from. These stores are also on my please-don't-go list, along with Trader Joe's and Sprouts.)
posted by of strange foe at 2:35 PM on May 29, 2019 [3 favorites]
I am surprised more people here aren’t doing the shop online and pick up curbside thing. I would rather do anything than step into a behemoth Fred Meyer (to this native Michigander it will always be an inferior version of Meijer) but got hooked with their $5 service for curbside pickup. There are so! many! coupons! and I get to spend as much time as I want pondering ingredients. I honestly can’t imagine going back to trying to buy the bulk of our groceries anywhere else.
I’ve done Instacart too but agree that the contractors just don’t give a shit about quality and don’t get paid enough to, and tipping them enough to make up for it when they failed to find any of the items I’m sure are in stock just made me sad.
Despite my love of curbside pickup, I am the person who delights in grocery stores. Moving to Portland meant New Seasons and Zupan’s and now we live close to the slightly bizarre Chuck’s Produce which is run by 7th Day Adventist’s and has a bunch of interesting product inside, like Wham! fake ham as a deli choice. Living in Seattle meant Metropolitan Market mentioned above, though I lived within a few blocks of the Ballard Market for years which is always going to be my platonic ideal of a grocery store.
I love food co-ops. As a vegetarian teenager I would spend all the money from my job by going on days off to grocery shop at The Grain Train in Petoskey, MI. I knew their shelves inside and out, could spend an hour looking at all the new nut butters and grass-fed dairy products. It is no wonder that by the time I graduated college I was barreling into orthorexia, being obsessed with how “clean” food was, how local, how happy the farmer was, how my grocery cart signaled to all that I was a person worth more than you’d assume from looking at me. See the organic dates, the glass bottles of milk, the nicest organic kale and celeriac.
Shopping for groceries online is actually a big step forward to rejecting that old disordered eating mindset. No one is going to see and judge the fat woman for buying some potato chips. No one will care if every item is organic. I still care about what I eat and get hung up on fear of pesticides but I’m making strides with intuitive eating, of which allowing yourself abundance and full permission is key. Of not fearing to be alone with a bag of chips because I will be out of control. Because I can buy more if I need to, and eat again when I am hungry even if I had “junk” earlier, and not worry about a cashier or fellow shopper judging my purchases.
posted by the thorn bushes have roses at 2:44 PM on May 29, 2019 [2 favorites]
I’ve done Instacart too but agree that the contractors just don’t give a shit about quality and don’t get paid enough to, and tipping them enough to make up for it when they failed to find any of the items I’m sure are in stock just made me sad.
Despite my love of curbside pickup, I am the person who delights in grocery stores. Moving to Portland meant New Seasons and Zupan’s and now we live close to the slightly bizarre Chuck’s Produce which is run by 7th Day Adventist’s and has a bunch of interesting product inside, like Wham! fake ham as a deli choice. Living in Seattle meant Metropolitan Market mentioned above, though I lived within a few blocks of the Ballard Market for years which is always going to be my platonic ideal of a grocery store.
I love food co-ops. As a vegetarian teenager I would spend all the money from my job by going on days off to grocery shop at The Grain Train in Petoskey, MI. I knew their shelves inside and out, could spend an hour looking at all the new nut butters and grass-fed dairy products. It is no wonder that by the time I graduated college I was barreling into orthorexia, being obsessed with how “clean” food was, how local, how happy the farmer was, how my grocery cart signaled to all that I was a person worth more than you’d assume from looking at me. See the organic dates, the glass bottles of milk, the nicest organic kale and celeriac.
Shopping for groceries online is actually a big step forward to rejecting that old disordered eating mindset. No one is going to see and judge the fat woman for buying some potato chips. No one will care if every item is organic. I still care about what I eat and get hung up on fear of pesticides but I’m making strides with intuitive eating, of which allowing yourself abundance and full permission is key. Of not fearing to be alone with a bag of chips because I will be out of control. Because I can buy more if I need to, and eat again when I am hungry even if I had “junk” earlier, and not worry about a cashier or fellow shopper judging my purchases.
posted by the thorn bushes have roses at 2:44 PM on May 29, 2019 [2 favorites]
You will ALL be glad to know that there's a 95% chance that 50+% of the inventory at your local grocery co-op comes from a publicly traded company. I'm sure the constant requirement for returns by investors will never have a negative impact on the quality of your shopping experience.
posted by avalonian at 3:16 PM on May 29, 2019
posted by avalonian at 3:16 PM on May 29, 2019
shenderson: "various studies indicate that locally-owned stores put dramatically more money back into the local economy than chain stores"
FWIW, The Institute for Local Self-Reliance may not be an unbiased source on this topic (and all but one of those studies is written by the same think-tank).
Again, this may just come from my personal experience in the supply-chain, but the locally-owned warehouses were the ones who were run by literal-actual-Nazis, doing all of their business in cash (ie. illegally dodging taxes), and treating their workers like shit.
If you're comparing a national chain to a locally-owned business, I hope you're compensating for the fact that there isn't a locally-owned restaurant in the nation that accurately reports its income.
posted by schmod at 3:25 PM on May 29, 2019 [4 favorites]
FWIW, The Institute for Local Self-Reliance may not be an unbiased source on this topic (and all but one of those studies is written by the same think-tank).
Again, this may just come from my personal experience in the supply-chain, but the locally-owned warehouses were the ones who were run by literal-actual-Nazis, doing all of their business in cash (ie. illegally dodging taxes), and treating their workers like shit.
If you're comparing a national chain to a locally-owned business, I hope you're compensating for the fact that there isn't a locally-owned restaurant in the nation that accurately reports its income.
posted by schmod at 3:25 PM on May 29, 2019 [4 favorites]
These behaviors are a sign a customer is “experimenting,” engaging with curiosity and pleasure rather than just trying to complete a task.
Yeah, I'm curious about things like "which the fuck aisle do I gotta go down to find the dang sliced jalapenos" and "shit did I somehow walk past the sliced jalapenos without seeing them" and "seriously who do I gotta blow to get some ratzerfratzing sliced jalapenos in this joint"
posted by taquito sunrise at 4:22 PM on May 29, 2019 [7 favorites]
Yeah, I'm curious about things like "which the fuck aisle do I gotta go down to find the dang sliced jalapenos" and "shit did I somehow walk past the sliced jalapenos without seeing them" and "seriously who do I gotta blow to get some ratzerfratzing sliced jalapenos in this joint"
posted by taquito sunrise at 4:22 PM on May 29, 2019 [7 favorites]
there should be a Dewey goddamn Decimal system for food & I'm being 100% serious about this
posted by taquito sunrise at 4:23 PM on May 29, 2019 [24 favorites]
posted by taquito sunrise at 4:23 PM on May 29, 2019 [24 favorites]
My god, if there were an index-inventory-map that you could scan as you walked into the store... Count me in as someone who doesn't want to 'experiment' when I'm shopping for groceries; even if I'm trying something new, I generally already know what that thing is. Impulse buying isn't, as far as I can tell, particulary correlated with curiosity.
posted by sagc at 4:51 PM on May 29, 2019 [6 favorites]
posted by sagc at 4:51 PM on May 29, 2019 [6 favorites]
I had to use Fred Meyer's phone app recently for reasons beyond my control, but it actually was useful: I'd put my shopping list in it before heading to the store, and it sorted the list for me by aisle.
posted by The corpse in the library at 5:05 PM on May 29, 2019 [3 favorites]
posted by The corpse in the library at 5:05 PM on May 29, 2019 [3 favorites]
Wow, I shop at Fred Meyer but had no idea they had an app. I use "Out of Milk", which is pretty good but you have to set up your own categories (by aisle in my case), and I had to rearrange them manually after my local store did a massive redesign. :-(
posted by Greg_Ace at 6:26 PM on May 29, 2019
posted by Greg_Ace at 6:26 PM on May 29, 2019
Metro Market was bought by Kroeger in 2016, I'm sorry to report — and Amazon bought Whole Foods, I don't remember whether last year or 2017.
But MM is still pretty good, I think, and managers have a certain amount of autonomy IME.
The first time I went into what was the only Whole Foods in Seattle, my nose was immediately assailed by the distinctive musty odor of pentachlorophenol (banned from any use in the EU by now) treated wood, looked up and saw that the freezer cases down the center of the store had long rows of huge plants in treated wood containers, and turned on my heel and left.
But I've been a member of local no longer little PCC for decades now, and while a few managers haven't been too happy with me at times, I think they are an excellent grocery store.
posted by jamjam at 7:38 PM on May 29, 2019
But MM is still pretty good, I think, and managers have a certain amount of autonomy IME.
The first time I went into what was the only Whole Foods in Seattle, my nose was immediately assailed by the distinctive musty odor of pentachlorophenol (banned from any use in the EU by now) treated wood, looked up and saw that the freezer cases down the center of the store had long rows of huge plants in treated wood containers, and turned on my heel and left.
But I've been a member of local no longer little PCC for decades now, and while a few managers haven't been too happy with me at times, I think they are an excellent grocery store.
posted by jamjam at 7:38 PM on May 29, 2019
I can't believe the Harvest Market of Champaign-Urbana, Illinois is being discussed on Metafilter! I have a personal animus against the people in this story, so it's taken me a while to write this comment without Hulking out.
I used to live in Champaign. Three blocks from my apartment was a little County Market, which is Rich Niemann's regional grocery chain. Now, County Market has always been a solidly second-rate grocery store, and mine used to be an IGA so it was the exact opposite of the postmodern "shopping experience" celebrated in this article. But to me, being able to buy the ingredients for my meals a half-hour before I cooked them was awesome, like the French stereotype of Parisian market shopping. Then Niemann and Kelley closed most of the walkable, in-town, unexciting County Markets and opened the Harvest Market -- a little under a mile away out on south Neil St., too far for me to schlep my groceries home on foot anymore. ARRGGH.
I can't deny that Harvest Market is an interesting place. The kitsch level (all those stylized painted chickens and old tractors) gets on my nerves. It's definitely aimed at both rural self-mythologizing and a certain Champaign-Urbana progressive mindset. You see, C-U has a sizeable population of liberals (esp. West Urbana) whose gathering place is the weekly Farmer's Market outside the Urbana ghost mall ... it's not just where you buy your fresh veggies from farmers, it's where you see all your friends, listen to the busking of Jean's son Morgan who's probably never going to get a real job, and if you see Deb you can tell her how you think she's doing as mayor. In the adjacent mall is the Common Ground Food Co-op (after it moved out of the basement of the radical left activist church on campus) and the IMC (which is where all those radical left activists went). A big part of the local liberal mindset is "we're here among all this natural food goodness in the breadbasket of the country, so let's enjoy it, and form personal bonds with those farmers!" (who allll vote right-wing Christian ... Midwestern liberalism is way more about getting along with your neighbors than Berkeley progressivism, because we can't afford not to be).
The_Vegetables: Unfortunately, the store owner is only thinking about parking. Got to put in more spaces, without realizing that a giant parking lot makes a store look worse architecturally, makes it more likely that people will assume the store has few customers (people hate shopping in giant places by themselves), besides that navigating giant parking lots are exactly what people are trying to get away from by getting stuff delivered.
OK, I have to defend them here. In more rural areas, the stores in the nearest city are not just for the city dwellers. They're the once-a-week shopping destinations for everyone in the small towns and farms of the surrounding 30-40 mile area. That's why the parking lots are necessary. That's why he's so focused on making it a good place for people to spend a lot of time. And that's why all our mega-supermarkets are out on the edges of town -- at least half of their customers are coming from outside, and they don't want to drive into the city.
I know a lot of people in this thread have said "I don't want an 'experience'! I want to get in, find my few things, and get out!" along with "I like going to several different little food shops in my neighborhood," but when (1) you have to drive a half-hour to get there, and (2) it's too damn cold to go outside for half the year, you can see why so many Harvest Market shoppers look forward to a bit of the "experience economy."
posted by Harvey Kilobit at 8:51 PM on May 29, 2019 [6 favorites]
I used to live in Champaign. Three blocks from my apartment was a little County Market, which is Rich Niemann's regional grocery chain. Now, County Market has always been a solidly second-rate grocery store, and mine used to be an IGA so it was the exact opposite of the postmodern "shopping experience" celebrated in this article. But to me, being able to buy the ingredients for my meals a half-hour before I cooked them was awesome, like the French stereotype of Parisian market shopping. Then Niemann and Kelley closed most of the walkable, in-town, unexciting County Markets and opened the Harvest Market -- a little under a mile away out on south Neil St., too far for me to schlep my groceries home on foot anymore. ARRGGH.
I can't deny that Harvest Market is an interesting place. The kitsch level (all those stylized painted chickens and old tractors) gets on my nerves. It's definitely aimed at both rural self-mythologizing and a certain Champaign-Urbana progressive mindset. You see, C-U has a sizeable population of liberals (esp. West Urbana) whose gathering place is the weekly Farmer's Market outside the Urbana ghost mall ... it's not just where you buy your fresh veggies from farmers, it's where you see all your friends, listen to the busking of Jean's son Morgan who's probably never going to get a real job, and if you see Deb you can tell her how you think she's doing as mayor. In the adjacent mall is the Common Ground Food Co-op (after it moved out of the basement of the radical left activist church on campus) and the IMC (which is where all those radical left activists went). A big part of the local liberal mindset is "we're here among all this natural food goodness in the breadbasket of the country, so let's enjoy it, and form personal bonds with those farmers!" (who allll vote right-wing Christian ... Midwestern liberalism is way more about getting along with your neighbors than Berkeley progressivism, because we can't afford not to be).
The_Vegetables: Unfortunately, the store owner is only thinking about parking. Got to put in more spaces, without realizing that a giant parking lot makes a store look worse architecturally, makes it more likely that people will assume the store has few customers (people hate shopping in giant places by themselves), besides that navigating giant parking lots are exactly what people are trying to get away from by getting stuff delivered.
OK, I have to defend them here. In more rural areas, the stores in the nearest city are not just for the city dwellers. They're the once-a-week shopping destinations for everyone in the small towns and farms of the surrounding 30-40 mile area. That's why the parking lots are necessary. That's why he's so focused on making it a good place for people to spend a lot of time. And that's why all our mega-supermarkets are out on the edges of town -- at least half of their customers are coming from outside, and they don't want to drive into the city.
I know a lot of people in this thread have said "I don't want an 'experience'! I want to get in, find my few things, and get out!" along with "I like going to several different little food shops in my neighborhood," but when (1) you have to drive a half-hour to get there, and (2) it's too damn cold to go outside for half the year, you can see why so many Harvest Market shoppers look forward to a bit of the "experience economy."
posted by Harvey Kilobit at 8:51 PM on May 29, 2019 [6 favorites]
I like to shop. Love it online; best stuff for best prices. I am a walking all weather clothes whore of the CO experience.
The grocery was my shopping experience during the oh-so-broke college days; and it has stayed with me. I get to get my 'shop' in (via online ads, and the print copy ads still; yeah. I'll 'clip' to buy a $17 a pound rib roast at $7 a pound. Zero apologies. None. No shame either.), and I get to purpose my like to shop hobby with being able to consume the items I buy - this critically avoids the hoarder paradox of lots of good crap; and OMG; the space it all takes.
A can of brand X soup is going to be a can of brand X soup. Other items, bags of chips; or produce; ... this can involve the variable of 'Ah, food picker for online app got me a bag of crushed chips, and maybe fruits that are also abused to say the least" satisfaction fail.
I could afford to shop at the Fresh Plus in Austin about once a month. Otherwise; the 20% expense difference; yeah. HEB, or more HEB. Current location has -Zero- indy markets that aren't 30+ minutes drive away.
"By avoiding middlemen and their surcharges" - the food chain in grocery resembles the smuggler chain of many drugs, and/or so many other items. Producer; local bundler; off to a wholesaler; then to an organization; and then to the individual retailer. Go figure a soda actually costs a dime to make; but runs a buck when it hits the shelves. That; and God help if dividends are involved in any corp. that is publicly traded. That two or three percent is going to come from somewhere along the line.
Nice section on butter. Because a lot of the butter now; even the mid-grade brand names; may as well be lard with some yellow food coloring in it. A tasteless edible wheel bearing grease of sorts. Organic laxative perhaps?
Walmart, Amazon, Target - they'll ship about anything anywhere too. Want your fancy upscale type Ramen overseas? Hello APO. Favorite chips, salsas? Ditto.
Today was grocery - WalMart; and a Safeway; which was due to the haircut joint next door. And fried chicken. Gotta love Safeway fried chicken, and a fresh haircut.
posted by Afghan Stan at 9:50 PM on May 29, 2019 [2 favorites]
The grocery was my shopping experience during the oh-so-broke college days; and it has stayed with me. I get to get my 'shop' in (via online ads, and the print copy ads still; yeah. I'll 'clip' to buy a $17 a pound rib roast at $7 a pound. Zero apologies. None. No shame either.), and I get to purpose my like to shop hobby with being able to consume the items I buy - this critically avoids the hoarder paradox of lots of good crap; and OMG; the space it all takes.
A can of brand X soup is going to be a can of brand X soup. Other items, bags of chips; or produce; ... this can involve the variable of 'Ah, food picker for online app got me a bag of crushed chips, and maybe fruits that are also abused to say the least" satisfaction fail.
I could afford to shop at the Fresh Plus in Austin about once a month. Otherwise; the 20% expense difference; yeah. HEB, or more HEB. Current location has -Zero- indy markets that aren't 30+ minutes drive away.
"By avoiding middlemen and their surcharges" - the food chain in grocery resembles the smuggler chain of many drugs, and/or so many other items. Producer; local bundler; off to a wholesaler; then to an organization; and then to the individual retailer. Go figure a soda actually costs a dime to make; but runs a buck when it hits the shelves. That; and God help if dividends are involved in any corp. that is publicly traded. That two or three percent is going to come from somewhere along the line.
Nice section on butter. Because a lot of the butter now; even the mid-grade brand names; may as well be lard with some yellow food coloring in it. A tasteless edible wheel bearing grease of sorts. Organic laxative perhaps?
Walmart, Amazon, Target - they'll ship about anything anywhere too. Want your fancy upscale type Ramen overseas? Hello APO. Favorite chips, salsas? Ditto.
Today was grocery - WalMart; and a Safeway; which was due to the haircut joint next door. And fried chicken. Gotta love Safeway fried chicken, and a fresh haircut.
posted by Afghan Stan at 9:50 PM on May 29, 2019 [2 favorites]
fried chicken, and a fresh haircut.
I'll take "Two things I never expected to see together in one sentence" for $1000, Alex.
posted by Greg_Ace at 10:54 PM on May 29, 2019 [2 favorites]
I'll take "Two things I never expected to see together in one sentence" for $1000, Alex.
posted by Greg_Ace at 10:54 PM on May 29, 2019 [2 favorites]
fried chicken, and a fresh haircut.
Shave and a haircut, two bits....
Wal-Mart has fried chicken, roast chicken and SmartStyle hair salons. And while the deli and hair salons close down overnight, I can still get yarn and soda at dark-thirty at night if I choose. I also can get in a walk in muggy summer or frozen winter weather, when no other indoor walking areas are available. In the middle of the night.
On the other hand, the influx of wine and beer (up to 8.99 per cent alcohol) in the grocery stores as of last October has led to restocking of the soda aisles. I drink Dr. Thunder, not wine, so that's frustrating.
Sometimes it's Crest Foods, sometimes it's Aldi's, sometimes it's Buy For Less.
Sam's Club is for staples. We get milk from Braums.
We haven't tried the new Costco, and I'm in no hurry.
Back in the day when we took our fifth-wheel camping, my standards were if I could find a Wal-Mart within a reasonable distance, I could stock up on food and supplies and spend most of my time having fun with my family.
I shop at Wal-Mart while out of state for the same reason I eat at national chains. I can find the same things for a similar price and not waste my time. It has clean bathrooms, usually a McDonald's or a Subway, and they don't mind if we take a nap in our car overnight.
I have shopped at the local Trader Joe's and Whole Foods. I do not understand the love for these stores.
posted by TrishaU at 1:06 AM on May 30, 2019 [1 favorite]
Shave and a haircut, two bits....
Wal-Mart has fried chicken, roast chicken and SmartStyle hair salons. And while the deli and hair salons close down overnight, I can still get yarn and soda at dark-thirty at night if I choose. I also can get in a walk in muggy summer or frozen winter weather, when no other indoor walking areas are available. In the middle of the night.
On the other hand, the influx of wine and beer (up to 8.99 per cent alcohol) in the grocery stores as of last October has led to restocking of the soda aisles. I drink Dr. Thunder, not wine, so that's frustrating.
Sometimes it's Crest Foods, sometimes it's Aldi's, sometimes it's Buy For Less.
Sam's Club is for staples. We get milk from Braums.
We haven't tried the new Costco, and I'm in no hurry.
Back in the day when we took our fifth-wheel camping, my standards were if I could find a Wal-Mart within a reasonable distance, I could stock up on food and supplies and spend most of my time having fun with my family.
I shop at Wal-Mart while out of state for the same reason I eat at national chains. I can find the same things for a similar price and not waste my time. It has clean bathrooms, usually a McDonald's or a Subway, and they don't mind if we take a nap in our car overnight.
I have shopped at the local Trader Joe's and Whole Foods. I do not understand the love for these stores.
posted by TrishaU at 1:06 AM on May 30, 2019 [1 favorite]
Even my 10 year old jokes that Target's motto is "remember that cool new grocery item you loved last week? We discontinued carrying it."
I still tell people about the time I ran into the local Target to buy a lemon. They didn't have lemons. They had shelves full of "we did all the planning for you, now your life can be as whimsical and designed as ours!" cutesy prepared or pre-assembled products. They didn't have a lemon.
posted by gimonca at 5:02 AM on May 30, 2019 [1 favorite]
I still tell people about the time I ran into the local Target to buy a lemon. They didn't have lemons. They had shelves full of "we did all the planning for you, now your life can be as whimsical and designed as ours!" cutesy prepared or pre-assembled products. They didn't have a lemon.
posted by gimonca at 5:02 AM on May 30, 2019 [1 favorite]
If there is an independent grocery store near me, I haven't found it. There is a local chain with an outlet a few miles away, but it is super upmarket (ie, expensive) without really being all that great except for finding weird organic prepared foods and eco-friendly cleaning products.
What is interesting to me is that of the larger chain groceries near here, the quality and selection varies tremendously from store to store, even though they are all relying on much the same distribution network. I assume this is the result of store management, with some being good and some not, unless there is some kind of overall corporate strategy at work that I am not seeing. Unfortunately for me, the nearest store to me is the one with the oldest produce and worst meats; I don't buy anything fresh there.
posted by Dip Flash at 5:58 AM on May 30, 2019
What is interesting to me is that of the larger chain groceries near here, the quality and selection varies tremendously from store to store, even though they are all relying on much the same distribution network. I assume this is the result of store management, with some being good and some not, unless there is some kind of overall corporate strategy at work that I am not seeing. Unfortunately for me, the nearest store to me is the one with the oldest produce and worst meats; I don't buy anything fresh there.
posted by Dip Flash at 5:58 AM on May 30, 2019
if there were an index-inventory-map that you could scan as you walked into the store
Target used to show you the aisle number in their app based on the store you picked, but now you have to ask an employee to look it up in their scanner. It is annoying. The Target closest to my house has groceries, but only about 1/2 of a normal store. I can never find the bread, the cheese is limited, and the produce is a weird and different selection every time. I did get some ginger root on clearance once for about 1/3 the normal price. However, they do all seem to carry Topo Chico while only some Cub Foods carry it.
I have shopped at the local Trader Joe's and Whole Foods. I do not understand the love for these stores.
Interesting snacks and beverages, for one thing.
posted by soelo at 7:25 AM on May 30, 2019
Target used to show you the aisle number in their app based on the store you picked, but now you have to ask an employee to look it up in their scanner. It is annoying. The Target closest to my house has groceries, but only about 1/2 of a normal store. I can never find the bread, the cheese is limited, and the produce is a weird and different selection every time. I did get some ginger root on clearance once for about 1/3 the normal price. However, they do all seem to carry Topo Chico while only some Cub Foods carry it.
I have shopped at the local Trader Joe's and Whole Foods. I do not understand the love for these stores.
Interesting snacks and beverages, for one thing.
posted by soelo at 7:25 AM on May 30, 2019
I sporadically shop at Trader Joe's (I like their cheese section), but so often when I go there for a specific thing I find out "Oh, we don't carry that anymore." Grrr.
posted by Greg_Ace at 9:18 AM on May 30, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by Greg_Ace at 9:18 AM on May 30, 2019 [1 favorite]
I have shopped at the local Trader Joe's and Whole Foods. I do not understand the love for these stores.Interesting snacks and beverages, for one thing.
This is true. Also, class tourism.
Something like 15 years ago a friend of mine was living in Toronto for school. From time to time he let me come crash on his futon and drag him away from his schoolbooks to do touristy things. On one visit I informed him that we were going to go a place that I had heard of called Whole Foods where they sold locally made Rootbeer flavoured candies shaped like little Rootbeer barrels. I'd read about them in a magazine - probably in my doctor's office waiting room, lord knows I couldn't afford magazine subscriptions.
So, in the dark and cold, in the middle of a snowstorm, my friend and I walked for miles to visit the Yorkville Whole Foods. Watching the neighbourhoods change felt like walking into another world. At one point I looked up through the whirling snow at a grand residential building (I think perhaps it was The Prince Arthur) and I could see into these gorgeous high ceilinged apartments, with beautiful polished wood furniture, enormous oriental vases on display stands, totchkes in glassed-in display cases... Through a bay window I saw a woman in an evening gown with her hair done-up, sitting at an old fashioned mirrored dressing table, gracefully putting on her earrings. She made me think of an illustrated scene from my childhood copy of Peter Pan - Mr. & Mrs Darling getting dressed to go to a party on the fateful night their children run away to Neverland.
Then we were at Whole Foods and it was like no grocery store we'd ever seen before (we shopped at places called No Frills and Food Basics, where you had to bag your own groceries). We wandered the aisles like it was a museum, taking in the hand-lettered signs describing the admirable qualities of the products being sold (organic!, grass-fed!, imported!), the attractive wooden shelves and tables piled artistically with foods we couldn't hope to afford. We never did find my Rootbeer candies, but we didn't want to leave empty handed so we searched for something novel that was within our price range. The bulk foods section came to our rescue and we walked out with a teeny-tiny bag of chocolate covered blueberries shared between us. We savoured them on the walk home through the snow, eating them one-by-one with frozen fingers.
posted by Secret Sparrow at 10:16 AM on May 30, 2019 [7 favorites]
When I lived in Brooklyn, it would take up a good chunk of a Saturday morning to walk down Atlantic Avenue from Court to Henry Streets, from Trader Joe's to Sahadi's, to the produce guy, the baker, the butcher, and then to Key Foods for those packaged foods that the other stores didn't carry. If I was so inclined, I'd go a bit out of my way to Smith Street to the cheesemonger. Sometimes I miss those jaunts.
There's 3 overpriced and meh chain grocery stores and a (pretty mediocre) greengrocer near me now. So I hop on a bus with my little granny cart and go around the reservoir to the independent store on the other side. It's got lovely produce, 4! aisles of cheese from all over, a decent bakery and deli, and good prices. I have weighed those factors against the time and bus fare it takes, and it's worth it to me. It's a little like the old Fairway minus the walk-in meat cooler, back when Fairway wasn't a regional chain.
There's definitely an Eastern European edge to the place, because while they have all the good ol' US staples, they also have at least 10 kinds of sausages and a number of different breads and other products interspersed throughout the store that I have never heard of before, with their labels written in a Roman alphabet language that I'm not familiar with. And I think they own the building they're in, because the store takes up half the block itself. I tried Peapod once a couple of years ago, but I wasn't satisfied with it. I realized that the all the food cost ~20% more via Peapod, and it was better to just make the time to go shopping.
I suppose there is a narrative we have when it comes to where we buy our food, but basically, I mean... just be a clean, well-lit place (™ Hemingway), with a reasonable selection of staples at fair prices, and don't blast the music to where I can't think (looking at you, chain grocery nearest my apartment).
posted by droplet at 10:24 AM on May 30, 2019
There's 3 overpriced and meh chain grocery stores and a (pretty mediocre) greengrocer near me now. So I hop on a bus with my little granny cart and go around the reservoir to the independent store on the other side. It's got lovely produce, 4! aisles of cheese from all over, a decent bakery and deli, and good prices. I have weighed those factors against the time and bus fare it takes, and it's worth it to me. It's a little like the old Fairway minus the walk-in meat cooler, back when Fairway wasn't a regional chain.
There's definitely an Eastern European edge to the place, because while they have all the good ol' US staples, they also have at least 10 kinds of sausages and a number of different breads and other products interspersed throughout the store that I have never heard of before, with their labels written in a Roman alphabet language that I'm not familiar with. And I think they own the building they're in, because the store takes up half the block itself. I tried Peapod once a couple of years ago, but I wasn't satisfied with it. I realized that the all the food cost ~20% more via Peapod, and it was better to just make the time to go shopping.
I suppose there is a narrative we have when it comes to where we buy our food, but basically, I mean... just be a clean, well-lit place (™ Hemingway), with a reasonable selection of staples at fair prices, and don't blast the music to where I can't think (looking at you, chain grocery nearest my apartment).
posted by droplet at 10:24 AM on May 30, 2019
I’m in my late 40s and haven’t encountered a grocery store that wasn’t part of a chain since I left the small Arizona town of my childhood. Even when I returned to small town living for a bit in my 20s, a chain had already taken over. In a major metropolitan area, my only choice is which chain.
posted by _paegan_ at 11:06 AM on May 30, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by _paegan_ at 11:06 AM on May 30, 2019 [1 favorite]
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Okay, this is a cool link and an interesting perspective, but. Grocery shopping for a lot of neurodiverse people, including me, already takes fucking forever. I feel like some local grocery stores have started rearranging more frequently. It has increased this dwell time the article is talking about - when I've gone in there.
I would prefer an Instacart alternative with less environmental impact and better worker treatment, but "we're going to use more marketing tricks to keep you in the grocery store longer" is only going to prompt me to stay away more.
posted by bagel at 8:35 AM on May 29, 2019 [23 favorites]