touched by his noodly appendage
June 27, 2019 5:07 AM   Subscribe

The Ultimate Fantasy of Dragon Age is Being Listened to by a Man

The men I hang out with are permanently disappointed that I don’t fuck The Iron Bull in Dragon Age: Inquisition.

It’s not that he’s not a fascinating character, or that he’s not sexy. He’s big and strong and funny and his arc is interesting. There’s a slew of interesting characters to kiss in a Dragon Age: Inquisition, but for me the appeal is not in simulating a relationship I’ve had before — that is, with someone fascinating. It’s grasping something I remain convinced I’ll never have: a relationship with a heterosexual man who listens to me and respects me.


posted by poffin boffin (36 comments total) 18 users marked this as a favorite
 
It's just been so long since I've tried to date. It is really hard to imagine trying to be with someone who doesn't listen to you.
posted by Made of Star Stuff at 5:21 AM on June 27, 2019 [3 favorites]


In my experience... Oh god all of it... Even the "good guys" who are supportive and non-explicitly controlling and truly trying hard to be good partners are so woefully incapable of vulnerability and expressing their feelings without anger or shutting down.

Even as a strong and centered person, my life has been subsumed beneath my men.
posted by dazedandconfused at 5:26 AM on June 27, 2019 [9 favorites]


Too gay to relate, but I like this take. Almost enough to make me stop choosing Dorian every run, but not quite.
posted by brook horse at 5:27 AM on June 27, 2019 [1 favorite]


dorian's romance is AMAZING but i hate having to be a manquisitor
posted by poffin boffin at 5:31 AM on June 27, 2019 [7 favorites]


Fair, poffin boffin. The character I’ve played in every single Dragon Age game is a genderqueer person who uses he pronouns (because a genderqueer person who uses SHE pronouns would be too on the nose and egg for me) so it’s not quite as bad.
posted by brook horse at 5:40 AM on June 27, 2019


Loved this, reminded me of how Almodóvar's Tie Me Up! Tie Me Down! tackles heterosexual relationships as a horror film.
posted by veery at 6:33 AM on June 27, 2019


In my experience... Oh god all of it... Even the "good guys" who are supportive and non-explicitly controlling and truly trying hard to be good partners are so woefully incapable of vulnerability and expressing their feelings without anger or shutting down.

Get you a man who wants to do the Gottman dates.

Did you guys know Freddie Prinze Jr. voices Iron Bull?!?! It's great. I really like his performance. That game, not so much, cause it was like 90% fluff and I pooped out to play like... I dunno, hit a ball with a stick in the backyard or diablo 3 dungeons.

I wonder more what game did romance the best? Dream Daddy simulator? Stardew Valley? No really, I need to know.
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 6:39 AM on June 27, 2019


Also, if you tell any of the characters you're not interested they listen to you and never bring it up again. That's pretty cool.

I get pretty defensive of 'bioware romances' (usually meant as 'shove presents at a random person until they decide to have sex with you', which is sort of how it worked in Origins and ME2), because of both Iron Bull and Dorian's romance tracks, plus the fact that my Lady Inquisitor gets let down by Cassandra every single time.
posted by dinty_moore at 6:44 AM on June 27, 2019 [8 favorites]


Cassandra is the closest thing to a responsible, adult butch we get in the whole series.

Don't get me wrong, Josie is adorable and Iron Bull is delightful, and Sera is ... well, an adventure ... but there's really a lack of strong lesbian butch characters in the whole Bioware oeuvre. Aveline would have been pretty good, but not available. In ME, Jack was interesting, but not available to women. I guess an argument could be made about Liara but she's an entirely different species.

It was always a bit frustrating.
posted by seanmpuckett at 6:59 AM on June 27, 2019 [3 favorites]


Good timing for this article, as I’m in the middle of a DA:I playthrough and in the process of romancing Cullen myself, mostly for the novelty of playing a hetero relationship—on previous playthroughs my ladyquisitor went with Sera and Josephine.

I’ve heard that Solas is the best written romance story, but the dude is so freaking insufferable and condescending. I’m looking forward to playing the post-game DLC in hopes I get to smack him around some.
posted by ejs at 7:44 AM on June 27, 2019


I’ve heard that Solas is the best written romance story, but the dude is so freaking insufferable and condescending.

I mean, it's not so much that it is the most romantic or fulfilling relationship as much as playing a character that romances him makes my inquisitor's upcoming MURDER and REVENGE plot even more sweet.

Also at some point my inquisitor will take a moment to explain semiotics and shifting cultural meanings of symbols over the course of millennia. The dragon age 4 that exists in my brain is fantastic, I tell you.
posted by dinty_moore at 7:53 AM on June 27, 2019 [3 favorites]


Solas is that older guy you dated in college or maybe your 20's that you thought was all smart and sophisticated but then you go over things later and realize that no, he was a paternalistic douche that was creepily into younger naive women. Only because it's a video game, you might get the chance to kill him.

That's the real power fantasy right there.
posted by dinty_moore at 8:03 AM on June 27, 2019 [29 favorites]


Also, if you tell any of the characters you're not interested they listen to you and never bring it up again.

except for anders, who hits on you first without your expressing any interest in him and then gets pissy (and gives you +20 disapproval) if you turn him down.

love 2 murder him
posted by poffin boffin at 8:24 AM on June 27, 2019 [8 favorites]


Oh, to be listened to and respected by a man without having to fight or bargain for it, for it to just be a given. "Subsumed" is the perfect word for it, and the guilt of being a nonstraight woman who still wants to give myself up to a man if only he would reciprocate. Sad that video game fantasy husbands having a personality are so risky, bc i love video game fantasy husbands
posted by gaybobbie at 8:32 AM on June 27, 2019


Really well done.
It is horror, to be bound to someone who cannot wash their own laundry but who controls your finances and public life and reproductive destiny. It is romance, to be asked sincerely to change someone’s life.
posted by spamandkimchi at 8:43 AM on June 27, 2019 [5 favorites]


Cullen listens to you. Cullen takes your advice. Someone whose life thus far is not marked by trauma or marginality but instead by the safety of a normative homelife listens to you.

I feel like this article is written from a perspective of playing Dragon Age: Inquisition in isolation from the previous games. This isn't Cullen's first appearance in the series and in continuity he's, um... well there's definitely been some trauma there along with some questionable choices.

That kinda leaves me scratching my head with, "Uh, but..." Yet taken as it is I like this article just fine along with the main point it makes.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 8:48 AM on June 27, 2019 [6 favorites]


Also this article completely leaves out Solas as a romantic option and I applaud that choice.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 8:50 AM on June 27, 2019 [1 favorite]


yeah, describing Cullen as "someone whose life thus far is not marked by trauma" is mystifying even if you only take his appearance in Inquisition into account. You do have to read between the lines for some of the details, sure, but he's still very clearly an addict (of 10+ years) who has nearly incapacitating doubts about his competency and sanity, who has deliberately isolated himself from his family (and, it is strongly implied, romantic relationships apart from the PC) beyond what his job requires, who expresses his desire to die if Skyhold is attacked, who experiences nightly recurring nightmares about his past which lessen only somewhat as long as he keeps himself heavily dosed-- a walking ramen tangle of partially-healed trauma and survivor's guilt. Without even playing 1 & 2, it's pretty evident that he is still dealing with Some Heavy Shit, even by DA standards.

The character is both used to and comfortable with receiving orders and guidance from female leaders, and has strong (if not always healthy) platonic work/friendship relationships with some of them, which indicates that he would be able to have as much with a female inquisitor. The special thing for me is that this translates into his being able to maintain that level of consideration and respect within a romantic relationship with one as well. But although he is a rather capable adult male on most levels (1. almost certainly washes his ass on the regular because what else does he have going on on a Friday night, plus literally everyone has had the opportunity to observe said ass due to his unfortunate decision to bet against an Antivan and my does it gleam in the torchlight, and 2. the existence of the mane-cape is surely evidence enough that he does, in fact, buy his own shirts) ahem where was oh yes on most levels, our lad is still an emotional fixer-upper. That he can be fixed, and takes steps to become so due to your influence, largely independently once you decide for him, is absolutely heady stuff. I don't disagree with the author at all there, but Cullen is only in a position to listen to the PC on such questions as whether or not to resume his addiction because he cannot trust himself to make the decision for himself--he's already handed over much of this responsibility to Cassandra before you even show up, and if the PC doesn't help him escape his addiction, he is unable to do so for himself. The narrative arc hinges on the player's decision, yes, and it does not matter what he prefers because his ability to act on his own volition regarding his own interests, health, and future is completely broken. He listens to the PC because he respects them, and he takes their advice because it's his duty. At that point in the story, the relationship is nearer to servitude because of his dependence on lyrium and upon others as a result of the lyrium, and the vulnerability being shared is not really mutual at all.
posted by notquitemaryann at 10:20 AM on June 27, 2019 [8 favorites]


I’ve heard that Solas is the best written romance story, but the dude is so freaking insufferable and condescending.

Four Heterosexual Choices In Dragon Age Women Have Often Made In Real Life. [Spoilers for Trespasser]

Solas is the activist boyfriend you have in your twenties. Solas loves you. Solas loves you more than any other person in the world, including himself. Solas is woke. Solas will make sure he never has sex with you without telling you the truth. Solas will never tell you the truth until it is too late. Solas is a member of ELF. Solas will save you from arrest. Solas is the one who made sure you were in danger of arrest in the first place, by not telling you he was storing bombs in your apartment. Solas is definitely going to leave you holding the bag. Solas will tell stories for the rest of his life about his great love. Solas will stalk you on Facebook. Solas will definitely not do any dishes. Solas is the most complicated romance. Solas will break your motherfucking heart.

Iron Bull is barely contained violence. He is strong and sexy and you will ride him endlessly and he will probably give you a million orgasms. You know it's a bad idea, he's a bad idea, but you love him so much that you think that maybe it can work, just this one time, and you forget that he was forged in violence and violence is what he knows. If you make the wrong choice - if he has to lose just one scrap of his humanity more - he will kill you, or you will kill him. If you make the right choice, you will never know, for the rest of your life, how close your intimate partner came to murdering you on the orders of someone he barely knew.

Blackwall is a liar. Blackwall has always been a liar. Blackwall cares about what he wants. He will fuck you without telling you the truth, ignoring that no consent can be true consent unless it's informed. His needs will always take priority over your own. He will make promises, and never fulfill them. Blackwall will make grand gestures with a thousand candles. Blackwall will never hold down a fucking job or pay a bit towards the rent.

Cullen is earth. Cullen is water. Cullen is solidity. Yes, he was an addict, yes, by god he's had trauma on top of trauma, he's made bad choices. But Cullen is determined to show up and step up and put you the fuck first. Cullen will bring you a dog and then walk it. Cullen will bring you babies and then stay up at night with them.

Cullen is clearly the only correct choice and I wish I made it more.
posted by corb at 2:33 PM on June 27, 2019 [11 favorites]


I wonder more what game did romance the best? Dream Daddy simulator? Stardew Valley? No really, I need to know.

Okay, I kind of want to return to this because it's a super interesting question about how romance works in video games (how do you show affection and relationships in a small number of scripted options). But also I'm aware that there's an entire genre of dating sims that I've never played so I don't feel confident giving my answer, any more than I can talk about what movie has the best romance ever while only watching action movies and the occasional art house flick.

But, we're talking about one RPG - Dragon Age: Inquisition*, one dating sim (Dream Daddy), and one farming sim? (Stardew Valley) It's closest to Harvest Moon, at any rate. The way that romance works in Stardew Valley is very Harvest Moon-like - you find out what sort of stuff the other person likes, give them the stuff that until they like you, and then you can get married. There's some cute stuff in the middle, but that's the general mechanic. It's cute, there's a lot of good personality and writing and the player has a lot of choice, but the main mechanic is a little weird to think about.

With Dream Daddy, you talk to people and they like you more if you generally agree with them and their parenting choices. Which, fair, lots of people work that way too. You also have to do pretty well at the minigames it throw at you that represent stuff that they admire - keeping up at a concert, keeping cool and being helpful at a zoo - I don't remember what the other ones are, but generally admirable almost rom-com-ish acts. At the end of the day it feels like you're the main character (or maybe the love interest) in a romantic comedy, and does that pretty well.

In Dragon Age: Inquisition the romance mechanic is a mix of flirting, doing tasks for people in ways that respect their choices (the characters can break up with you if you complete their quest the wrong way) and giving them good advice, and also evaluate you on decisions you make while they aren't in front of you. People also have fixed sexual orientations, though you can flirt with people and have nothing come of it. As weird as it sounds it feels the most natural of the three? I don't know if that's any better than a romcom take, just a different idea of the mechanic.

I've heard people talk up the Witcher 3's romantic plots before (especially in contrast to 'bioware romances'), and it never really made that much sense to me. They seemed pretty bog-standard (say stuff they agree with, they're generally interested), except for the fact that they all seem to include a scene where the love interest runs away (sometimes naked) and Geralt chases them down for sexytimes. Which is the sort of weird I'd want to write a paper on.

*So there's also a connection between dating sims and JRPG's - square was in the dating sim game before they wrote final fantasy - not so much in western RPGs, but by the time we get to the bioware stage of development we're definitely at the point where JRPG's are influencing western RPG's and vice versa.
posted by dinty_moore at 3:02 PM on June 27, 2019 [3 favorites]


I should try Cullen at some point, but I tend to play characters who disapprove of the cultural power of Chantry and by extension Templars. Even relatively decent ones.
posted by rewil at 3:29 PM on June 27, 2019


But also compare the function of romance in skyrim: I get a spouse who will give me a certain type of gameplay bonus versus what's talked about in the fpp: I get a love interest so I can live out the fantasy of having a man listen to and respect me.
posted by dinty_moore at 3:30 PM on June 27, 2019


Sunless Sea: Your intended will only agree to dinner if something...esoteric is served, something horrible that must be hunted beneath the waves. Later, after they've revealed the dark geas that drives them, they'll probably take some of your blood or your memories of a childhood friend and you will give it willingly. When they're gone you'll think wistfully of the last time you saw them, ascending the steps of an impossibly large ruin on the edge of the Zee. Their parting gift was unique in the world and it will open a door long barred to you in the search for your father's bones.
posted by figurant at 3:42 PM on June 27, 2019 [2 favorites]


Cassandra is the closest thing to a responsible, adult butch we get in the whole series.

Don't get me wrong, Josie is adorable and Iron Bull is delightful, and Sera is ... well, an adventure ... but there's really a lack of strong lesbian butch characters in the whole Bioware oeuvre. Aveline would have been pretty good, but not available. In ME, Jack was interesting, but not available to women. I guess an argument could be made about Liara but she's an entirely different species.

It was always a bit frustrating.


That's how they do, yeah. The Strong Female Character, evidenced by short hair and brusque attitude and masculine energy and distaste for soft things, has butch lesbian written all over her - but oh, we're turning your expectations on their heads, because look at this! She's straight! Didn't see that coming, did you?

Ashley, Jack, Cora, Aveline, Cassandra, it's a well worn trope of theirs.
posted by kafziel at 4:17 PM on June 27, 2019 [6 favorites]


I'm remembering the look on my friend's face when I told them that Morrigan was not a romance option for female wardens.

I understand not wanting to fall into stereotypes and all, but once would be nice.
posted by dinty_moore at 4:41 PM on June 27, 2019 [5 favorites]


except for the fact that they all seem to include a scene where the love interest runs away (sometimes naked)

the unicorn though
posted by poffin boffin at 6:39 PM on June 27, 2019 [5 favorites]


except for anders, who hits on you first without your expressing any interest in him and then gets pissy (and gives you +20 disapproval) if you turn him down.

Oh, yeah- same with poor, dumb Kaiden in Mass Effect. Almost makes me wish I hadn't killed stupid, racist Ashley.

Almost.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 7:14 PM on June 27, 2019


Killing Ashley for being in the Space Klan is a highlight of any ME playthrough. I just wish there was a speech option to tell her so.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 7:51 PM on June 27, 2019


anyway the best romance in the witcher is geralt/gwent

the once scene in the beauclair brothel where he's talking to the madam all "i have a, uh... special request.... please let's keep this incredibly depraved kink just between us ok?" and she's like, breathlessly excited, but it's that he wants to play MORE GWENT
posted by poffin boffin at 10:48 PM on June 27, 2019 [4 favorites]


except for anders, who hits on you first without your expressing any interest in him and then gets pissy (and gives you +20 disapproval) if you turn him down.

As someone who exclusively plays women, it makes you long for the Anders of Dragon Age: Awakening, where he was 100% gay and not interested in women at all.

But hey, that's the least of the half-assed retcons in 2.
posted by kafziel at 11:03 PM on June 27, 2019 [1 favorite]


That's how they do, yeah. The Strong Female Character, evidenced by short hair and brusque attitude and masculine energy and distaste for soft things, has butch lesbian written all over her - but oh, we're turning your expectations on their heads, because look at this! She's straight! Didn't see that coming, did you?

Ashley, Jack, Cora, Aveline, Cassandra, it's a well worn trope of theirs.


Ohh, yeah. Jack, who is canon bi, and Cora, who talks about crushes with her (all-female) asari squadmates. Jack I can sort of understand why they decided to shut down any same-sex romance, because of the negative publicity (from some Fox News drone who didn't even play the game), but when they did allow ♀♀ romances in later ME games, the LIs were pretty femme. As a cishet male who preferred playing FemShep and SisRyder, I would have preferred female LIs, but often romanced either Thane or Garrus because they were written better. A romance path across all three of the first games might run like: Liara in ME1, Thane in ME2, Liara again in the Lair of the Shadow Broker DLC because Thane didn't seem to mind (Liara is better written in the DLC than in the rest of the original trilogy), Thane again in the first half of ME3 (that death scene!), and then Samantha Traynor because she's adorkable. Alternatively, just Garrus, because he's the best written character overall in the OT; he's super-cool even if you break up with him at the beginning of ME3, while Liara isn't, even though she suggests it. (As for Andromeda, I haven't done a fraction of the playthroughs that I did with the OT because it takes so long, but generally, Peebee.)
posted by Halloween Jack at 6:49 AM on June 28, 2019 [1 favorite]


I just couldn't go with Peebee because she just hewed too close to the Sera trope. I think I went with Jaarl or whatever the blue alien companion's name was. He at least seemed somewhat like a mature adult and not, like Peebee, someone who would just get bored and run away, or be asked to do something responsible and run away, or just run away so she could figure out how desperately Ryder wanted her back again.

I think Jaarl's the only vaguely het relationship (in my defence, again, different species, I'm sure this is a huge argument) I've played in a Bioware game, except for an as-a-favour Solasmance just to see what the different plot points were.

The whole Bioware "lesbians can't be butch" thing in retrospect strikes me as tasting a little bit like "what a strong, independent, masculine-trending woman really needs is some dick" kind of thing, which is gross.

Krem would have been a fine romance choice, also, very much. Though the questions you can ask him as an Inquisitor now just make me fucking cringe. I'm sure they were helpful five years ago for people who needed to have their eyes opened. ... and probably still today. Not everyone lives in the Village (checking own privilege).
posted by seanmpuckett at 7:06 AM on June 28, 2019 [1 favorite]


Jaal was something else. Just hearing him say another character's name was like the best sex scene in any other game.
posted by Halloween Jack at 9:15 AM on June 28, 2019 [1 favorite]


right so I've written 5k+ words of fanfic so far this weekend, and I'd just like to take this opportunity to blame all y'all for that
posted by notquitemaryann at 3:05 PM on June 29, 2019 [3 favorites]


yes this is my design
posted by poffin boffin at 10:00 AM on July 2, 2019 [2 favorites]


(not to contribute too too much to the "other games" derail but like Witcher 3 tho - there was one romancey thing in one of the DLC's where a ghost took over Geralt's body and the only actions you (the player controlling Geralt) had to choose from were waaaay creepier than what Geralt would have done while un-possessed and there wasn't really a way around it. Still bums me out. I know Geralt is no Cullen but apparently he was WAAAAAY worse in witcher 1 and 2?)
posted by capnsue at 7:53 PM on July 4, 2019 [1 favorite]


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