How to politely smoke weed
August 4, 2019 8:14 AM Subscribe
Emily Post’s great-great-granddaughter wrote a book about cannabis etiquette — a thing you never thought you’d need. Lizzie Post is the great-great-granddaughter of Emily Post, the legendary etiquette expert responsible for sculpting the transactional courtesies of an entire generation of Americans. She’s also, in her words, a “classic stoner.”...Post’s recently published guidebook, Higher Etiquette, reflects a national turning point. For weed-curious amateurs, the book serves as a life raft for the next time you’re not sure what to do when a joint makes its way around a party. For aficionados like Post, it offers guidance on how to comfortably introduce the plant to their less seasoned friends.
I can’t help but be bored by a scion of etiquette getting the opportunity to write a book based on an email. Sounds embarrassing.
posted by tummy_rub at 8:22 AM on August 4, 2019 [4 favorites]
posted by tummy_rub at 8:22 AM on August 4, 2019 [4 favorites]
*inhales* but tummy_rub man, we're living in the future maaaaaaan. *coughs*
posted by Homo neanderthalensis at 8:26 AM on August 4, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by Homo neanderthalensis at 8:26 AM on August 4, 2019 [2 favorites]
The last step to normalization is making something that used to be illicit and exciting boring as all hell.
This is a good thing.
posted by supercres at 8:46 AM on August 4, 2019 [15 favorites]
This is a good thing.
posted by supercres at 8:46 AM on August 4, 2019 [15 favorites]
This is a good thing.
Except when it’s not, of course. Weed is legal here in the Great Green North now and I’m less than stoked that capitalism is doing its thing with it. Sometimes normal sucks, you dig? I’d rather pass a doob like a secret handshake than have Soctiabank Presents My Next High.
posted by tummy_rub at 8:53 AM on August 4, 2019 [7 favorites]
Except when it’s not, of course. Weed is legal here in the Great Green North now and I’m less than stoked that capitalism is doing its thing with it. Sometimes normal sucks, you dig? I’d rather pass a doob like a secret handshake than have Soctiabank Presents My Next High.
posted by tummy_rub at 8:53 AM on August 4, 2019 [7 favorites]
Yes, true. “Good thing” modulo capitalism and making it another thing for Big Ag to wrap its fist around.
In some ways the current US situation, state legalization and federally illegal, seems like it’s keeping major ag players out of the market. Hopefully the cottage industry will stick around once Monsanto-patented strains start showing up.
posted by supercres at 8:57 AM on August 4, 2019 [5 favorites]
In some ways the current US situation, state legalization and federally illegal, seems like it’s keeping major ag players out of the market. Hopefully the cottage industry will stick around once Monsanto-patented strains start showing up.
posted by supercres at 8:57 AM on August 4, 2019 [5 favorites]
Total derail, but what I find disorienting about the pot industry here in Washington State is how it's grown into becoming all about different growers and different brands, like I'm somehow supposed to be consuming enough of this stuff to develop an opinion about why Grower X's version of Blue Dream is better than Grower Y's. Hell, I buy an eighth and it lasts me for well over a month, so I'm buying this stuff maybe 8 or 9 times a year. I just want a strain that has the effects I want, I'm not going to try to memorize brand names as well as strain names. But it's all boutique and stupid and it's like trying to buy wine or scotch or something.
/rant
posted by hippybear at 9:01 AM on August 4, 2019 [17 favorites]
/rant
posted by hippybear at 9:01 AM on August 4, 2019 [17 favorites]
A brief survey of some experts of my acquaintance yielded a few additional rules
1) Don't steal the only lighter
2) (If using pipe) leave some green for the next person
3) No matter how stoned, it is still considered polite to ask before raiding fridge
4) Don't leave 3-ft bong with American flag motif on coffee table if landlord is coming over tomorrow
5) (If in red state) Minimum video-game time to establish that supplier is a friend, rather than the help, is 27 minutes
6) While funny, convincing a first-time smoker that now they have to drink the bong water is not OK
posted by kleinsteradikaleminderheit at 9:02 AM on August 4, 2019 [23 favorites]
1) Don't steal the only lighter
2) (If using pipe) leave some green for the next person
3) No matter how stoned, it is still considered polite to ask before raiding fridge
4) Don't leave 3-ft bong with American flag motif on coffee table if landlord is coming over tomorrow
5) (If in red state) Minimum video-game time to establish that supplier is a friend, rather than the help, is 27 minutes
6) While funny, convincing a first-time smoker that now they have to drink the bong water is not OK
posted by kleinsteradikaleminderheit at 9:02 AM on August 4, 2019 [23 favorites]
Amazon link, you know, for the financial welfare of the site is that’s how you buy things.
I love this idea and what it means, but it depends an awful lot on the execution. Yeah, edibles are much slower than inhaling, duh. You don’t smoke and are invited to a party where everyone does — awkwaaard — maybe consider that when you send invites.
But there’s a whole lot of other trickier ground to navigate and the weed community does have knowledge and tradition and standards that are nice to write down and codify somewhat as this is commercialized and spreads to mainstream society. I think the communalism and sharing aspect of consumption is a great example. I see a lot of these yahoo frat boys out there dabbing and shit like they’re shotgunning beers and I think this isn’t at all the experience most of us had that led us to push for legalization.
How do you handle it when you’re at a music festival and you turn around to find your boss sees you blow a bong load of smoke into the air? What if you’re with someone you barely know who starts freaking out and getting paranoid, what’s your responsibility to help them and how? Maybe you’d like to try smoking but your spouse is dead set against it...
I’d love to see a great authoritative book about these kind of questions.
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 9:10 AM on August 4, 2019 [9 favorites]
I love this idea and what it means, but it depends an awful lot on the execution. Yeah, edibles are much slower than inhaling, duh. You don’t smoke and are invited to a party where everyone does — awkwaaard — maybe consider that when you send invites.
But there’s a whole lot of other trickier ground to navigate and the weed community does have knowledge and tradition and standards that are nice to write down and codify somewhat as this is commercialized and spreads to mainstream society. I think the communalism and sharing aspect of consumption is a great example. I see a lot of these yahoo frat boys out there dabbing and shit like they’re shotgunning beers and I think this isn’t at all the experience most of us had that led us to push for legalization.
How do you handle it when you’re at a music festival and you turn around to find your boss sees you blow a bong load of smoke into the air? What if you’re with someone you barely know who starts freaking out and getting paranoid, what’s your responsibility to help them and how? Maybe you’d like to try smoking but your spouse is dead set against it...
I’d love to see a great authoritative book about these kind of questions.
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 9:10 AM on August 4, 2019 [9 favorites]
Further to Slarty's comment, I'd read about best practices regarding sharing a joint: Is it acceptable to bogart in an age of $15 grams? Should you pass it along to a stranger? If you do - should you try and get it back? Times have changed on what is expected here.
posted by not_that_epiphanius at 9:33 AM on August 4, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by not_that_epiphanius at 9:33 AM on August 4, 2019 [2 favorites]
Old time etiquette comment: Hey, is that a bong/pipe, or a microphone?
posted by hippybear at 9:38 AM on August 4, 2019 [4 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 9:38 AM on August 4, 2019 [4 favorites]
One from my youth: Don’t use a yellow lighter.
posted by TrialByMedia at 9:46 AM on August 4, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by TrialByMedia at 9:46 AM on August 4, 2019 [2 favorites]
don’t use a yellow lighter
no, it’s a white lighter! Because that’s what Kurt Cobain had in his pocket when his body was found (??) and it’s bad luck man
posted by zinful at 9:52 AM on August 4, 2019 [7 favorites]
no, it’s a white lighter! Because that’s what Kurt Cobain had in his pocket when his body was found (??) and it’s bad luck man
posted by zinful at 9:52 AM on August 4, 2019 [7 favorites]
I always buy pink lighters because people walk off with all the other colors.
posted by hippybear at 9:54 AM on August 4, 2019 [15 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 9:54 AM on August 4, 2019 [15 favorites]
I hope it clears up any misconceptions potheads have about how the smell supposedly fades faster than tobacco. It smells so much worse, and it lingers for much longer. Protip: when someone tells you it smells really bad, believe them. I’m all for decriminalization but I hate not being able to breathe in my own neighborhood.
posted by fedward at 9:57 AM on August 4, 2019 [17 favorites]
posted by fedward at 9:57 AM on August 4, 2019 [17 favorites]
Fascinating, but I wonder how quickly she'll have to produce a new edition. It seems to me that actual practice is changing very quickly as legalization starts happening.
My hot take is you'll see a division in users based on the type of product. Raw cannabis flower/buds will be for those who want an old school stoner experience, while people whose interest is firmly post-legalization will, I suspect, be more drawn to products that don't involve something as déclassé as smoking. ("I mean, like... [takes hit from Juul with THC pod in it, pops two edibles, DoorDashes a pizza] ...who the fuck smokes anymore?")
But maybe that makes codifying the traditional stoner etiquette more important rather than less, since it will likely represent a slice of a bygone era very soon.
posted by Kadin2048 at 10:02 AM on August 4, 2019 [6 favorites]
My hot take is you'll see a division in users based on the type of product. Raw cannabis flower/buds will be for those who want an old school stoner experience, while people whose interest is firmly post-legalization will, I suspect, be more drawn to products that don't involve something as déclassé as smoking. ("I mean, like... [takes hit from Juul with THC pod in it, pops two edibles, DoorDashes a pizza] ...who the fuck smokes anymore?")
But maybe that makes codifying the traditional stoner etiquette more important rather than less, since it will likely represent a slice of a bygone era very soon.
posted by Kadin2048 at 10:02 AM on August 4, 2019 [6 favorites]
Does this involve daintily extending the pinky of the hand holding the joint/vape/bong?
posted by Greg_Ace at 10:07 AM on August 4, 2019 [6 favorites]
posted by Greg_Ace at 10:07 AM on August 4, 2019 [6 favorites]
Yes.
posted by hippybear at 10:10 AM on August 4, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by hippybear at 10:10 AM on August 4, 2019 [1 favorite]
Lizzie Post also did an advice column in the feminist weed magazine Broccoli. I think issues 2 - 4.
posted by weed donkey at 10:22 AM on August 4, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by weed donkey at 10:22 AM on August 4, 2019 [1 favorite]
I can’t help but be bored by a scion of etiquette getting the opportunity to write a book based on an email. Sounds embarrassing.
I don't understand your issue here.
She is a working expert on etiquette - nepotism got her there, no doubt, but it's not like she is just some layabout living high (pun intended) on her trust fund. She does work in the field, and she co-wrote the last update to the core Post etiquette book so she is familiar with this kind of research and writing.
She is also a habitual user of pot, so awake to the standards of the community in question.
Why shouldn't she have written this book?
posted by jacquilynne at 10:41 AM on August 4, 2019 [27 favorites]
I don't understand your issue here.
She is a working expert on etiquette - nepotism got her there, no doubt, but it's not like she is just some layabout living high (pun intended) on her trust fund. She does work in the field, and she co-wrote the last update to the core Post etiquette book so she is familiar with this kind of research and writing.
She is also a habitual user of pot, so awake to the standards of the community in question.
Why shouldn't she have written this book?
posted by jacquilynne at 10:41 AM on August 4, 2019 [27 favorites]
5) (If in red state) Minimum video-game time to establish that supplier is a friend, rather than the help, is 27 minutes
Ugggggghhhh. From my weed smoking years this was the most frustrating part of the black market experience. Meeting a guy through a friend who sells weed and having to act like this purely transactional relationship between you and the person who has access to a controlled substance is actually the start of a real friendship. So many hours wasted on chit chat and smash bros with sketchy dudes in their weird smelly apartments.
posted by dis_integration at 11:22 AM on August 4, 2019 [17 favorites]
Ugggggghhhh. From my weed smoking years this was the most frustrating part of the black market experience. Meeting a guy through a friend who sells weed and having to act like this purely transactional relationship between you and the person who has access to a controlled substance is actually the start of a real friendship. So many hours wasted on chit chat and smash bros with sketchy dudes in their weird smelly apartments.
posted by dis_integration at 11:22 AM on August 4, 2019 [17 favorites]
Take the issue of smoke. Smoke is not a comfortable thing for everyone to sit in or be around. It certainly was something we were much more courteous about than we used to be with cigarette smoke, so I’d venture that you really want to pay attention to where your smoke is drifting. I personally think that, just like how many people drink around kids, and expose kids to what proper consumption is, I’d want people to do that with smoking as well. You don’t pop down with your joint on the beach three feet away from the family having a picnic.
As a non-smoker (of anything) who hangs out with a wide variety of folks, I appreciate this - and it's not just kids/families, but people with asthma or just sensitivities or dislike of second-hand smoke. Remember that smoke rises (eg. from lower floor apartments to upper floor apartments, through a variety of nooks and crannies that all buildings have, or outside through open windows), check wind direction (when outside in general or when thinking about what open windows are near you), and just be generally aware of where your smoke is going. In return, I will totally support your right to consume pot, and vote accordingly.
(Noting that this is kind of a side issue in this thread, though, since the post and the link deal primarily with etiquette between smokers.)
posted by eviemath at 11:41 AM on August 4, 2019 [5 favorites]
As a non-smoker (of anything) who hangs out with a wide variety of folks, I appreciate this - and it's not just kids/families, but people with asthma or just sensitivities or dislike of second-hand smoke. Remember that smoke rises (eg. from lower floor apartments to upper floor apartments, through a variety of nooks and crannies that all buildings have, or outside through open windows), check wind direction (when outside in general or when thinking about what open windows are near you), and just be generally aware of where your smoke is going. In return, I will totally support your right to consume pot, and vote accordingly.
(Noting that this is kind of a side issue in this thread, though, since the post and the link deal primarily with etiquette between smokers.)
posted by eviemath at 11:41 AM on August 4, 2019 [5 favorites]
First: Weed smoke does NOT linger as much as cigarette smoke. Open a window or smoke outside if you're going to smoke massive amounts, but that's just common courtesy about anything that gives a smell. There's certain foods I cook where I make sure to have good ventilation, even in the winter. Second hand smells of anything can annoy people.
Like everything else, these rules boil down to "don't be an asshole" and the problem with that is assholes don't care about etiquette to begin with.
I'll add: The tip about lighters should read: Put the lighter down when you are done using it. I've pocketed SO many lighters in my life, but never with the intention of stealing. Weed (especially combined with booze) can make you messed up (duh) and forgetfully pocketing a lighter is a very natural and rude mistake to make.
posted by SoberHighland at 12:01 PM on August 4, 2019 [2 favorites]
Like everything else, these rules boil down to "don't be an asshole" and the problem with that is assholes don't care about etiquette to begin with.
I'll add: The tip about lighters should read: Put the lighter down when you are done using it. I've pocketed SO many lighters in my life, but never with the intention of stealing. Weed (especially combined with booze) can make you messed up (duh) and forgetfully pocketing a lighter is a very natural and rude mistake to make.
posted by SoberHighland at 12:01 PM on August 4, 2019 [2 favorites]
It smells so much worse, and it lingers for much longer.I'm pretty sure that, in the future, we or our descendants will look back at 1995-2015 as a brief, glorious window during which everything didn't always smell like smoke.
posted by Hatashran at 12:09 PM on August 4, 2019 [16 favorites]
I'm super pro-legalization but I really hate the smell of pot smoke. I don't even like being near someone who's smoked recently because the smell bothers me so much. I feel the same way about cigarette smoke but encounter so so seldom these days that it's not really an issue.
posted by octothorpe at 12:12 PM on August 4, 2019 [6 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 12:12 PM on August 4, 2019 [6 favorites]
MetaFilter: My hot take is
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 2:03 PM on August 4, 2019 [3 favorites]
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 2:03 PM on August 4, 2019 [3 favorites]
I was walking home the other day and a dude walking ahead of me was smoking his after work joint. Personally I don’t mind the smell of smoking (weed or tobacco) outdoors but another person walking on the path clearly found it unpleasant and distressing. Just because it is legal (or legalish) to smoke in a given situation doesn’t mean you should.
The etiquette between pot smokers seems like a very minor issue compared to the complex etiquette between smokers and the general public.
posted by Dip Flash at 3:52 PM on August 4, 2019 [3 favorites]
The etiquette between pot smokers seems like a very minor issue compared to the complex etiquette between smokers and the general public.
posted by Dip Flash at 3:52 PM on August 4, 2019 [3 favorites]
“It smells bad” vs “I don’t mind it” is opinion, and indeed everybody will have one if they’ve been exposed to it. “It doesn’t linger” is factually incorrect, even if you don’t find the lingering smell offensive. Maybe you can’t detect it, like how your house smells distinct to everyone else but you, but pot smell definitely lingers.
posted by fedward at 5:05 PM on August 4, 2019 [9 favorites]
posted by fedward at 5:05 PM on August 4, 2019 [9 favorites]
Living in Seattle, there are many times and parts of town where it feels like every 30 seconds you are getting a weed smell. It's kind of freaky, TBH.
Or on a recent road trip up tha CA/Or coast, when driving a minivan with the fam, kept getting massive weed smell through the ventilation system. Then, I noticed the passenger window of the car in front of us was open, then I saw a giant plume of smoke come out. OK, I'm not losing my mind...
posted by Windopaene at 5:20 PM on August 4, 2019 [1 favorite]
Or on a recent road trip up tha CA/Or coast, when driving a minivan with the fam, kept getting massive weed smell through the ventilation system. Then, I noticed the passenger window of the car in front of us was open, then I saw a giant plume of smoke come out. OK, I'm not losing my mind...
posted by Windopaene at 5:20 PM on August 4, 2019 [1 favorite]
Cool to see this here. I know Lizzie from when she used to run a local indoor pick-up soccer night. I had the sense at the time that she was still casting about for her own voice in Institute. I’m glad she’s finding ways to tackle interests and keep it current.
posted by meinvt at 5:52 PM on August 4, 2019 [4 favorites]
posted by meinvt at 5:52 PM on August 4, 2019 [4 favorites]
Which side do we pass the dutchie from again?
... Weed is legal here in the Great Green North now and I’m less than stoked that capitalism is doing its thing with it...
Capitalism has been doing its thing with weed since forever. The guy I bought quarters from out of the trunk of his car out back the restaurant by the dumpster circa 1987 wasn't some socialist pinko commie. He was a capitalist, working in the unregulated black market.
If you ever get really nostalgic for illegal weed there are plenty of states where they're happy to throw you in the slam over a joint. I live in one such, and would strongly prefer the type capitalism where I can go into a nice air conditioned store and buy something without getting arrested.
posted by Cookiebastard at 6:05 PM on August 4, 2019 [19 favorites]
... Weed is legal here in the Great Green North now and I’m less than stoked that capitalism is doing its thing with it...
Capitalism has been doing its thing with weed since forever. The guy I bought quarters from out of the trunk of his car out back the restaurant by the dumpster circa 1987 wasn't some socialist pinko commie. He was a capitalist, working in the unregulated black market.
If you ever get really nostalgic for illegal weed there are plenty of states where they're happy to throw you in the slam over a joint. I live in one such, and would strongly prefer the type capitalism where I can go into a nice air conditioned store and buy something without getting arrested.
posted by Cookiebastard at 6:05 PM on August 4, 2019 [19 favorites]
If you ever get really nostalgic for illegal weed there are plenty of states where they're happy to throw you in the slam over a joint.
Yup. I once spent a very unpleasant night in the slammer for having a sandwich bag in my pocket that once had weed in it. I am white and was in college so the fallout was minor but what could have legally been applied to my case at the prosecutor's discretion (read: if I'd been poor or non-white) was up to a year in jail and several years of probation. As it is, I've had to disclose my record in various circumstances, I had to get a bunch of people to write letters of character when I got my teaching certification (meaning, I had to tell a bunch of people that didn't otherwise need to know that I once got busted for drugs several years previous), and this is the absolute best possible outcome in a state that still criminalizes.
So, like, I'm not super sympathetic to "but capitalism is a bummer, man."
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:01 PM on August 4, 2019 [16 favorites]
Yup. I once spent a very unpleasant night in the slammer for having a sandwich bag in my pocket that once had weed in it. I am white and was in college so the fallout was minor but what could have legally been applied to my case at the prosecutor's discretion (read: if I'd been poor or non-white) was up to a year in jail and several years of probation. As it is, I've had to disclose my record in various circumstances, I had to get a bunch of people to write letters of character when I got my teaching certification (meaning, I had to tell a bunch of people that didn't otherwise need to know that I once got busted for drugs several years previous), and this is the absolute best possible outcome in a state that still criminalizes.
So, like, I'm not super sympathetic to "but capitalism is a bummer, man."
posted by soren_lorensen at 7:01 PM on August 4, 2019 [16 favorites]
No matter how stoned, it is still considered polite to ask before raiding fridge
Am I the only person who has their appetite suppressed by marijuana?
posted by thelonius at 7:14 PM on August 4, 2019
Am I the only person who has their appetite suppressed by marijuana?
posted by thelonius at 7:14 PM on August 4, 2019
nepotism got her there, no doubt
Yes, that’s my issue.
posted by tummy_rub at 7:43 PM on August 4, 2019
Yes, that’s my issue.
posted by tummy_rub at 7:43 PM on August 4, 2019
If you're referring to Lizzie, then yes, "nepotism" got her there. The Emily Post Institute is family owned and run. It's not a political office, it's a family business.
posted by hippybear at 8:00 PM on August 4, 2019 [13 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 8:00 PM on August 4, 2019 [13 favorites]
My advice to my younger self:
Take a tiny drag and pass it on, then wait 15 minutes
to see what happens. It's not like cigarattes. If you keep
pulling until you feel something you will be fucked.
posted by i_have_a_computer at 8:27 PM on August 4, 2019 [3 favorites]
Take a tiny drag and pass it on, then wait 15 minutes
to see what happens. It's not like cigarattes. If you keep
pulling until you feel something you will be fucked.
posted by i_have_a_computer at 8:27 PM on August 4, 2019 [3 favorites]
“It smells bad” vs “I don’t mind it” is opinion, and indeed everybody will have one if they’ve been exposed to it. “It doesn’t linger” is factually incorrect, even if you don’t find the lingering smell offensive. Maybe you can’t detect it, like how your house smells distinct to everyone else but you, but pot smell definitely lingers.
I think there must be an issue of individual sensitivity here because I hardly smoke anymore and I still find weed smell to be 10x less "sticky" than tobacco smell.
posted by atoxyl at 8:58 PM on August 4, 2019 [4 favorites]
I think there must be an issue of individual sensitivity here because I hardly smoke anymore and I still find weed smell to be 10x less "sticky" than tobacco smell.
posted by atoxyl at 8:58 PM on August 4, 2019 [4 favorites]
There's no one universal truth about how weed smells. Some people hate the smell, some people don't.
This is true, but there are also facts about what percentage of people dislike it, eg: Half Of Americans Think The Smell Of Weed In Public Is A Real Problem. And that's not just the conservatives (though of course it's more of them): over 40% of consumers of weed think the smell in public is at least a minor problem, and 41% overall dislike the smell in public places, although 18% actively like it.
posted by chortly at 9:17 PM on August 4, 2019 [4 favorites]
This is true, but there are also facts about what percentage of people dislike it, eg: Half Of Americans Think The Smell Of Weed In Public Is A Real Problem. And that's not just the conservatives (though of course it's more of them): over 40% of consumers of weed think the smell in public is at least a minor problem, and 41% overall dislike the smell in public places, although 18% actively like it.
posted by chortly at 9:17 PM on August 4, 2019 [4 favorites]
I find more people think tobacco is a background smell that lingers longer but that weed is more intrusive even though it doesn't hang around. This is surely cultural given how just a couple of generations ago people were smoking on airplanes.
posted by hippybear at 9:19 PM on August 4, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by hippybear at 9:19 PM on August 4, 2019 [1 favorite]
I don't know the answer to that, but at the risk of a derail, googling it led me to this pretty interesting paper:
Children’s Hedonic Judgments of Cigarette Smoke Odor: Effects of Parental Smoking and Maternal Mood
posted by chortly at 10:05 PM on August 4, 2019 [3 favorites]
Children’s Hedonic Judgments of Cigarette Smoke Odor: Effects of Parental Smoking and Maternal Mood
Age-appropriate tasks were used to assess 3-to 8-year-old children’s liking, identification, and preference for a variety of odors, including that of exhaled cigarette smoke. Children whose parents smoke took longer to decide whether they liked the cigarette odor and were significantly more likely to prefer the odor of cigarette to the neutral and unfamiliar odor of green tea compared with children of nonsmokers. Among children of smokers, relative preferences for the cigarette odor were related to maternal mood disturbance and depression scores. These findings suggest that some early learning about cigarette smoke odor is based on sensory experiences at home and anchors it to the emotional context in which their mothers smoke.It's kind of a heartrending story: children of smokers and non-smokers dislike the smell about equally -- about 25% like it and 75% dislike it, which was the most disliked of the smells given to them (since the protocol involves giving the smell bottle to Oscar the Grouch or Big Bird, I don't think they had a neutral option). But the children of smokers took about twice as long to decide they liked the smell as did children of non-smokers -- ie, they really had to think about it. And those who disliked the smell had much more depressed mothers. The authors don't make this point, but since the totals for liking and disliking the smell were about the same for children of smokers and non-smokers, this suggests that an equal number of children learned to like it as dislike it, but it was largely a function of how happy their mothers were. I suppose the implications for weed are that people's preferences for the smell may go up over time, as long as the people they know who smoke it bring relatively happy associations.
posted by chortly at 10:05 PM on August 4, 2019 [3 favorites]
I was traveling in Rome recently. I was amazed at how much cigarette smoking there was and not one smell of pot smoke the entire time
posted by AugustWest at 3:55 AM on August 5, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by AugustWest at 3:55 AM on August 5, 2019 [1 favorite]
The issue of smell seems like a derail, but it's really the central issue of smoking weed. It's like the chestnut about libertarians: your right to swing your fist ends at my nose -- except that scents expand through three dimensions, faster and farther and more pervasive than your fist can swing.
And while I don't mind someone smoking dope at home, when I smell it in traffic I get worried. I can't find conclusive proof that weed-smoking drivers are less safe, but most relevant papers pre-date the era of legalization. *shrug*
posted by wenestvedt at 6:29 AM on August 5, 2019 [2 favorites]
And while I don't mind someone smoking dope at home, when I smell it in traffic I get worried. I can't find conclusive proof that weed-smoking drivers are less safe, but most relevant papers pre-date the era of legalization. *shrug*
posted by wenestvedt at 6:29 AM on August 5, 2019 [2 favorites]
And while I don't mind someone smoking dope at home, when I smell it in traffic I get worried.
The number of people openly smoking while driving is something I wasn't expecting from legalization. But I smell it all the time, at intersections as a pedestrian and blowing out the windows of cars ahead of me while driving. It reminds me of when I was a kid, when someone's dad sipping a beer while driving a group of kids somewhere was unremarkable, back before the organizing and legislation to crack down on drunk driving.
Every so often the highway patrol sets up lighted signs warning that driving high is against the law, but I haven't seen the kind of organized push and crackdown that happened against drunk driving. I assume (and hope) that it is coming -- legalization is great, but so is waiting to smoke up until you get to where you are going.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:05 AM on August 5, 2019 [2 favorites]
The number of people openly smoking while driving is something I wasn't expecting from legalization. But I smell it all the time, at intersections as a pedestrian and blowing out the windows of cars ahead of me while driving. It reminds me of when I was a kid, when someone's dad sipping a beer while driving a group of kids somewhere was unremarkable, back before the organizing and legislation to crack down on drunk driving.
Every so often the highway patrol sets up lighted signs warning that driving high is against the law, but I haven't seen the kind of organized push and crackdown that happened against drunk driving. I assume (and hope) that it is coming -- legalization is great, but so is waiting to smoke up until you get to where you are going.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:05 AM on August 5, 2019 [2 favorites]
Attended my first and last concert at Red Rocks Amphitheatre last week. Fuck them for not banning smoking there; there's nowhere to go to get away from either the cigarette smoke or the weed smoke.
And that's outdoors. Live music indoors is subject to many of the same problems, and at this point I've nearly given up on anything that's not in a seated indoor venue. Why don't nonsmokers get equal access to live music?
posted by asperity at 7:06 AM on August 5, 2019 [1 favorite]
And that's outdoors. Live music indoors is subject to many of the same problems, and at this point I've nearly given up on anything that's not in a seated indoor venue. Why don't nonsmokers get equal access to live music?
posted by asperity at 7:06 AM on August 5, 2019 [1 favorite]
waiting to smoke up until you get to where you are going.
A friend of mine wanted me to hold the wheel, from the passenger seat, on the Interstate, so that he could get out his bong and load it up and do a bong hit while he was driving. I said, no, let's not do that.
posted by thelonius at 7:21 AM on August 5, 2019 [1 favorite]
A friend of mine wanted me to hold the wheel, from the passenger seat, on the Interstate, so that he could get out his bong and load it up and do a bong hit while he was driving. I said, no, let's not do that.
posted by thelonius at 7:21 AM on August 5, 2019 [1 favorite]
My big issue (in a decrim but not legal city) is with gross pot smoke. There's a big ol difference between wafting ditch weed and what you'd experience in Amsterdam, Denver, or Seattle (at least as far as I remember).
posted by supercres at 7:32 AM on August 5, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by supercres at 7:32 AM on August 5, 2019 [2 favorites]
I'm envious of Canada. I wish the Netherlands would legalize weed. Instead we seem to be going in the opposite direction.
posted by Pendragon at 7:55 AM on August 5, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by Pendragon at 7:55 AM on August 5, 2019 [1 favorite]
I'm super glad to see etiquette discussions come up around any kind of smoking. I've supported every decriminalization move in my locale, but now I'm at the point where I'm ready to support laws backed by serious fines for smoking anything at all in public, or in multi-unit housing where everybody hasn't opted in. Pot shouldn't be contraband, but smoking of any kind is, quite simply, not a personal habit unless someone takes real care to make sure that the effects stay personal, and I'm really, really tired of being opted in to both cigarettes and weed.
I'd like to believe the problem could be solved by etiquette alone. Right now, based off the conversations I've had about it, I'm skeptical. Too many people believe that it's their god given right as Americans to stand on the corner and broadcast acknowledged carcinogens in the form of tobacco smoke; call somebody on their skunky weed and you might even get a lecture on the purported benefits inspired by the green aura cannabis enjoys.
posted by wildblueyonder at 8:59 AM on August 5, 2019 [4 favorites]
I'd like to believe the problem could be solved by etiquette alone. Right now, based off the conversations I've had about it, I'm skeptical. Too many people believe that it's their god given right as Americans to stand on the corner and broadcast acknowledged carcinogens in the form of tobacco smoke; call somebody on their skunky weed and you might even get a lecture on the purported benefits inspired by the green aura cannabis enjoys.
posted by wildblueyonder at 8:59 AM on August 5, 2019 [4 favorites]
wildblueyonder, you make a good point about multi-unit buildings.
I know someone who lives in California, and when pot was legalized some tenants in their same building started smoking it. Just getting a decent air-scrubber would have made it so the smokers' hobby wouldn't impinge on the neighbors, but instead they chose to stink out the whole building: the scent just rolls down the hallway and under the doors of people with breathing problems or fellow-smokers alike.
posted by wenestvedt at 9:14 AM on August 5, 2019
I know someone who lives in California, and when pot was legalized some tenants in their same building started smoking it. Just getting a decent air-scrubber would have made it so the smokers' hobby wouldn't impinge on the neighbors, but instead they chose to stink out the whole building: the scent just rolls down the hallway and under the doors of people with breathing problems or fellow-smokers alike.
posted by wenestvedt at 9:14 AM on August 5, 2019
"Every so often the highway patrol sets up lighted signs warning that driving high is against the law, but I haven't seen the kind of organized push and crackdown that happened against drunk driving."
I think that's because there isn't as much evidence drunk driving is at all comparable to high driving. There also isn't a clear test to measure how high or not someone is. What get's get some people not even buzzing might send someone else into a couch coma.
"but smoking of any kind is, quite simply, not a personal habit unless someone takes real care to make sure that the effects stay personal, and I'm really, really tired of being opted in to both cigarettes and weed. "
Add car exhaust to that list, if there's to be one.
posted by GoblinHoney at 10:50 AM on August 5, 2019 [2 favorites]
I think that's because there isn't as much evidence drunk driving is at all comparable to high driving. There also isn't a clear test to measure how high or not someone is. What get's get some people not even buzzing might send someone else into a couch coma.
"but smoking of any kind is, quite simply, not a personal habit unless someone takes real care to make sure that the effects stay personal, and I'm really, really tired of being opted in to both cigarettes and weed. "
Add car exhaust to that list, if there's to be one.
posted by GoblinHoney at 10:50 AM on August 5, 2019 [2 favorites]
Yeah, one of my favorite ironies are people standing at a bus stop complaining about cigarette smoke while a line of diesel trucks sit idling next to them waiting for the light to change.
That said, I do think people should be polite about their smoke if they're smoking in public. I'm a smoker and I know how intrusive my bad habit can be, and I try to always be at the edge of a crowd, downwind (if I can arrange it) when I light up.
Also, this post has reminded me of how much I enjoyed listening to the Awesome Etiquette podcast I mentioned upthread, and after looking around a bit I think I might renew my subscription to that podcast.
The whole focus of The Emily Post Institute is to continue to try to help people navigate life in a way which allows for grace and equanimity in our complex society. The three main things they use as the rubric for trying to decide what the proper etiquette is are honesty, respect, and consideration.
Overall I found listening to that podcast (which I literally even while typing this comment resubscribed to) not only was entertaining but also helped me provide my own rubric when faced with different situations.
Anyway, this is a great post, and I think I'm going to go order Lizzie's book now.
posted by hippybear at 11:03 AM on August 5, 2019 [4 favorites]
That said, I do think people should be polite about their smoke if they're smoking in public. I'm a smoker and I know how intrusive my bad habit can be, and I try to always be at the edge of a crowd, downwind (if I can arrange it) when I light up.
Also, this post has reminded me of how much I enjoyed listening to the Awesome Etiquette podcast I mentioned upthread, and after looking around a bit I think I might renew my subscription to that podcast.
The whole focus of The Emily Post Institute is to continue to try to help people navigate life in a way which allows for grace and equanimity in our complex society. The three main things they use as the rubric for trying to decide what the proper etiquette is are honesty, respect, and consideration.
Overall I found listening to that podcast (which I literally even while typing this comment resubscribed to) not only was entertaining but also helped me provide my own rubric when faced with different situations.
Anyway, this is a great post, and I think I'm going to go order Lizzie's book now.
posted by hippybear at 11:03 AM on August 5, 2019 [4 favorites]
The entire floor of the hotel I'm staying in here in Nevada reeks of pot. I'm glad it's legal, but I don't see why it's ok to smoke pot inside a hotel room, and yet you'd get a huge fine if you smoked a cigarette inside.
posted by WalkerWestridge at 12:19 PM on August 5, 2019 [3 favorites]
posted by WalkerWestridge at 12:19 PM on August 5, 2019 [3 favorites]
A lot of hotels in Nevada have smoking floors, as in cigarettes. I don't like to smoke in my hotel room so I usually ask for a non-smoking floor. As far as I know (I have a hotel in Reno I go to regularly, that's it), marijuana smoking is not permitting on non-smoking floors, and will be subject to the same fine if found.
posted by hippybear at 12:22 PM on August 5, 2019
posted by hippybear at 12:22 PM on August 5, 2019
There's no one universal truth about how weed smells. Some people hate the smell, some people don't. The smell really bothers some people, it doesn't bother others at all. And it's not just cannabis users who don't mind the smell of weed smoke, lots of people who don't smoke weed aren't bothered by it at all.
My roommate has asthma and it bothers her if I even smoke a cigarette out the window on the opposite side of the apartment, but it doesn't affect her at all when her BF and I smoke weed on the couch right next to her. Obviously I'll never assume someone is OK with it and I'll always ask, but it was remarkable to me how different her reactions were to tobacco vs. marijuana smoke.
posted by showbiz_liz at 12:40 PM on August 5, 2019 [1 favorite]
My roommate has asthma and it bothers her if I even smoke a cigarette out the window on the opposite side of the apartment, but it doesn't affect her at all when her BF and I smoke weed on the couch right next to her. Obviously I'll never assume someone is OK with it and I'll always ask, but it was remarkable to me how different her reactions were to tobacco vs. marijuana smoke.
posted by showbiz_liz at 12:40 PM on August 5, 2019 [1 favorite]
Yeah, one of my favorite ironies are people standing at a bus stop complaining about cigarette smoke while a line of diesel trucks sit idling next to them waiting for the light to change.
I don't see the irony in this at all. What, so because there are diesel trucks, we should all just YOLO and grab a smoke? The sum of the two is worse than either. Or put differently, just breathing diesel particulates is certainly better than breathing diesel particulates and secondhand cigarette smoke. And while we're working on the diesel particulates, I'm pretty happy getting rid of cigarette smoke as much and in as many situations as possible.
It's like the stupid argument I used to hear smokers make, back when they were cracking down on smoking in bars, that I should somehow be okay with their smoking because I was drinking, and—quelle horreur—drinking is bad for you. Well, no shit Sherlock, I know drinking is bad for me, but just because I'm flirting with liver cirrhosis or type 2 diabetes doesn't mean I'm also up for a spot of lung cancer. I'm also not up for Russian roulette, shooting heroin in the bathroom with borrowed needles, jumping freight trains, or any number of other things. One person's calculated risk on one substance or behavior doesn't automatically mean they're fine with others. Hell, I even smoke occasionally, but that doesn't mean I appreciate secondhand smoke when I'm not smoking.
In fairness, I've been pretty impressed with how norms around tobacco smoking have changed, even in just the last 10 years or so. The vast majority of smokers I know are pretty aware of secondhand smoke, and get that it's a consent issue to do it around others who aren't participating. Maybe I'm just lucky in my social circle, but I think if cannabis users treat their substance-of-choice the same way, we can all get along.
posted by Kadin2048 at 12:44 PM on August 5, 2019 [5 favorites]
I don't see the irony in this at all. What, so because there are diesel trucks, we should all just YOLO and grab a smoke? The sum of the two is worse than either. Or put differently, just breathing diesel particulates is certainly better than breathing diesel particulates and secondhand cigarette smoke. And while we're working on the diesel particulates, I'm pretty happy getting rid of cigarette smoke as much and in as many situations as possible.
It's like the stupid argument I used to hear smokers make, back when they were cracking down on smoking in bars, that I should somehow be okay with their smoking because I was drinking, and—quelle horreur—drinking is bad for you. Well, no shit Sherlock, I know drinking is bad for me, but just because I'm flirting with liver cirrhosis or type 2 diabetes doesn't mean I'm also up for a spot of lung cancer. I'm also not up for Russian roulette, shooting heroin in the bathroom with borrowed needles, jumping freight trains, or any number of other things. One person's calculated risk on one substance or behavior doesn't automatically mean they're fine with others. Hell, I even smoke occasionally, but that doesn't mean I appreciate secondhand smoke when I'm not smoking.
In fairness, I've been pretty impressed with how norms around tobacco smoking have changed, even in just the last 10 years or so. The vast majority of smokers I know are pretty aware of secondhand smoke, and get that it's a consent issue to do it around others who aren't participating. Maybe I'm just lucky in my social circle, but I think if cannabis users treat their substance-of-choice the same way, we can all get along.
posted by Kadin2048 at 12:44 PM on August 5, 2019 [5 favorites]
I don't see the irony in this at all.
I'll stop seeing the irony in it the day I'm standing at a bus stop with nobody smoking and people are complaining about vehicle exhaust.
posted by hippybear at 12:48 PM on August 5, 2019
I'll stop seeing the irony in it the day I'm standing at a bus stop with nobody smoking and people are complaining about vehicle exhaust.
posted by hippybear at 12:48 PM on August 5, 2019
Have you really never been at a bus stop where people complained about a vehicle venting right next to them? It's generally reserved for particularly smelly and unpleasant trucks, but I definitely have.
Of course, unlike complaining about jerks who smoke at the bus stop, the person in the diesel truck probably can't hear you complain about them. Fortunately, they're fairly likely to drive away when the light changes anyway. Unlike the damned smokers.
posted by jacquilynne at 12:56 PM on August 5, 2019 [2 favorites]
Of course, unlike complaining about jerks who smoke at the bus stop, the person in the diesel truck probably can't hear you complain about them. Fortunately, they're fairly likely to drive away when the light changes anyway. Unlike the damned smokers.
posted by jacquilynne at 12:56 PM on August 5, 2019 [2 favorites]
There is a definite difference in unpleasant lingering in the home between someone who smokes the occasional joint and a 7g / day user.
posted by not_that_epiphanius at 12:57 PM on August 5, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by not_that_epiphanius at 12:57 PM on August 5, 2019 [2 favorites]
Yeah, one of my favorite ironies are people standing at a bus stop complaining about cigarette smoke while a line of diesel trucks sit idling next to them waiting for the light to change.
It's not ironic at all. Cigarette smoke can trigger asthma and allergies in me very quickly. I could stand at a bus stop all day and feel fine. Many people are like me. Maybe talk to us instead of thinking its dumb to complain about cigarette smoke?
posted by agregoli at 3:47 PM on August 5, 2019 [3 favorites]
It's not ironic at all. Cigarette smoke can trigger asthma and allergies in me very quickly. I could stand at a bus stop all day and feel fine. Many people are like me. Maybe talk to us instead of thinking its dumb to complain about cigarette smoke?
posted by agregoli at 3:47 PM on August 5, 2019 [3 favorites]
You've never had to stand in the rain waiting for a bus because some jagoff was sitting in the bus shelter smoking a cigarette?
posted by octothorpe at 4:03 PM on August 5, 2019 [4 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 4:03 PM on August 5, 2019 [4 favorites]
That seems unlikely...
A quarter a day?
Someone needs to buy some higher % weed or something...
posted by Windopaene at 4:26 PM on August 5, 2019
A quarter a day?
Someone needs to buy some higher % weed or something...
posted by Windopaene at 4:26 PM on August 5, 2019
Living in Seattle, there are many times and parts of town where it feels like every 30 seconds you are getting a weed smell.
When I went to Victoria, BC a few years ago I was amazed that so many skunks could live in such a dense urban area.
weed smelled way different in the 70s, okay?
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:58 PM on August 5, 2019 [1 favorite]
When I went to Victoria, BC a few years ago I was amazed that so many skunks could live in such a dense urban area.
weed smelled way different in the 70s, okay?
posted by Johnny Wallflower at 8:58 PM on August 5, 2019 [1 favorite]
Mod note: One deleted; sorry, but really, let's not continue the derail about cigarette smoke. Thanks.
posted by taz (staff) at 12:59 AM on August 6, 2019
posted by taz (staff) at 12:59 AM on August 6, 2019
If Steve and some other people are about to start smoking Steve's weed, who should smoke first: Steve, or one of the other people?
It depends. Does Steve have enough weed that he doesn't give a shit and just packs the bowl and hands it to the person on the left? On the etiquette side, this matches up with "always serve your guests first".
posted by mikelieman at 4:16 AM on August 6, 2019
It depends. Does Steve have enough weed that he doesn't give a shit and just packs the bowl and hands it to the person on the left? On the etiquette side, this matches up with "always serve your guests first".
posted by mikelieman at 4:16 AM on August 6, 2019
I believe texting is more dangerous than smoking weed whilst driving.
posted by DJZouke at 4:32 AM on August 6, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by DJZouke at 4:32 AM on August 6, 2019 [2 favorites]
There's a strange feedback between reality and media because new inductees into a "club" that criminalization created feeds off media which reflects reality.
That said, there are absolutely regional- and relationship- differences in etiquette. Sharing a vape at a party vs. afternoon with a buddy bbqing stuff and drinking beers.
Dry flower vapourizers have completely won me over. If smoked cannabis is an order of magnitude less offensive than cigarette smoke (all other things equal), vaping is another order of magnitude less offensive and dissipates rapidly. When you burn stuff, you get polymerization of chain hydrocarbons. The longer/ more tangled they get, they tend to be more "sticky," and as they degrade over (long periods of) time they can release short chain hydrocarbons and other VOCs that create smell.
I recall having a spat with someone in an askme but I contend that a vapourizer at the right temperature and using it correctly (the draw is very different), I can get the same spectrum of effect (buzzed to blasted) at similar titration efficacies with a third to a half of input material.
What electronic dried flower vapourizers cannot do is have discrete sessions with the same bolus of input material. You can't fire it up, take a couple of sips, and power it down expecting the input bolus will have any(much) effect left like roaching a joint or tamping out a bong bowl.
But if you're only using 1/3 as much, inaccuracy in titrating the input bolus amount is only a small fraction of input savings.
Arguments about "flavour" typically favour vapourizing, but the trump card is if one actually likes the "skunk" smell of burned/ pyrolyzed cannabis.
posted by porpoise at 6:00 PM on August 6, 2019 [1 favorite]
That said, there are absolutely regional- and relationship- differences in etiquette. Sharing a vape at a party vs. afternoon with a buddy bbqing stuff and drinking beers.
Dry flower vapourizers have completely won me over. If smoked cannabis is an order of magnitude less offensive than cigarette smoke (all other things equal), vaping is another order of magnitude less offensive and dissipates rapidly. When you burn stuff, you get polymerization of chain hydrocarbons. The longer/ more tangled they get, they tend to be more "sticky," and as they degrade over (long periods of) time they can release short chain hydrocarbons and other VOCs that create smell.
I recall having a spat with someone in an askme but I contend that a vapourizer at the right temperature and using it correctly (the draw is very different), I can get the same spectrum of effect (buzzed to blasted) at similar titration efficacies with a third to a half of input material.
What electronic dried flower vapourizers cannot do is have discrete sessions with the same bolus of input material. You can't fire it up, take a couple of sips, and power it down expecting the input bolus will have any(much) effect left like roaching a joint or tamping out a bong bowl.
But if you're only using 1/3 as much, inaccuracy in titrating the input bolus amount is only a small fraction of input savings.
Arguments about "flavour" typically favour vapourizing, but the trump card is if one actually likes the "skunk" smell of burned/ pyrolyzed cannabis.
posted by porpoise at 6:00 PM on August 6, 2019 [1 favorite]
Someone needs to buy some higher % weed or something...
I'm pretty sure Grant Morrison can find quality smoke. I know one 14g/day user, not saying there aren't some mental health issues there...
posted by not_that_epiphanius at 8:02 PM on August 6, 2019 [1 favorite]
I'm pretty sure Grant Morrison can find quality smoke. I know one 14g/day user, not saying there aren't some mental health issues there...
posted by not_that_epiphanius at 8:02 PM on August 6, 2019 [1 favorite]
I want to clarify that I do not recommend smoking a few bowlfuls of OG Kush and driving on Rt 405 in LA.
posted by DJZouke at 4:50 AM on August 18, 2019
posted by DJZouke at 4:50 AM on August 18, 2019
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It's fascinating to me to learn that Lizzie is a "classic stoner".
Anyway, this is great, and I'm glad you posted it. Thanks!
posted by hippybear at 8:20 AM on August 4, 2019 [2 favorites]