Russia Today

August 16, 2019 12:06 AM

Tyler Cowen's politics are... not great. But you know who is great? Masha Gessen. On Russia, America, childcare, TV, protest, and sexuality. Hooray.
posted by wibari (17 comments total)

"Great" might be a stretch, for a writer who wrote an entire article calling #MeToo is a "moral panic" trying to "police sexuality". Or who slipping weirdly transphobic shit into articles about gay culture, and when questioned about it on twitter, raised the questioner as a source in her next article questioning the #MeToo movement a month later, taking extra care to point out that she was trans while attacking her.

Not, perhaps, actually great.
posted by kafziel at 1:34 AM on August 16, 2019 [18 favorites]

ok. sorry. by "great" i was using internet-speak for "she has interesting opinions about personal experiences she's had with respect to russian culture and authoritarianism in the context of this interview, though you may disagree with her opinions on other matters."

seriously what the fuck? immediate disregard of a queer anti-fascist russia expert because of a bunch of new yorker headlines? cmon.
posted by wibari at 2:20 AM on August 16, 2019 [2 favorites]

yeah i'm gonna go ahead and disregard terf rape-apologists all i want, thanks
posted by kafziel at 2:24 AM on August 16, 2019 [12 favorites]

Yes, no terf-apologists for me either.
posted by daybeforetheday at 2:44 AM on August 16, 2019 [3 favorites]

alright. well, thanks kafziel. after 10ish years, this was the last straw on mefi for me.

the bad guys are coming for all of us. and we obviously can't even talk to each other, let alone fight back. bye.
posted by wibari at 2:52 AM on August 16, 2019 [1 favorite]

the bad guys are coming for all of us.

Which is why the dismissive attitude to a bunch of valid concerns is so unhelpful.

we obviously can't even talk to each other, let alone fight back

You don't seem to want anyone fighting back against transphobia or sexism. Like, someone doing that is literally what you took issue with.
posted by Dysk at 2:59 AM on August 16, 2019 [13 favorites]

I'm solidly in the "people who have shit opinions about certain things can still have valuable insights into other things" corner. Therefore, thanks for the link, wibari, it was an interesting read.
posted by jklaiho at 3:40 AM on August 16, 2019 [6 favorites]

I don't particularly like Gessen, but her's is a voice that deserves to be heard. In 2018 she explicitly condemned efforts by the Trump administration to exclude trans people in interpreting federal civil rights law. In a 2017 NYRB piece she spoke about queer rights as "the frontier in the global turn toward autocracy". In 2013 she was endlessly harassed and physically assaulted for spearheading the pink triangle initiative in St. Petersburg and had to flee the country. I think it's beyond the pale to characterize her as a transphobe and a sexist, when she's been fearless in standing up to authoritarians who brook no dissent and suffered unspeakably because of it. Whatever her various missteps, I don't think she deserves being called out as an intellectual poison of sorts.
posted by dmh at 4:09 AM on August 16, 2019 [11 favorites]

Or who slipping weirdly transphobic shit into articles about gay culture, and when questioned about it on twitter, raised the questioner as a source in her next article questioning the #MeToo movement a month later, taking extra care to point out that she was trans while attacking her.

I feel like this seriously mischaracterizes that entire conversation. When questioned about it on Twitter, Gessen gave thoughtful responses, which Andrea Long Chu disagreed with, but it was a productive disagreement (well, as productive as a Twitter disagreement can be) and far from attacking her in the New Yorker piece, Gessen gave her a lengthy quote that she proceeded to agree with?

One can question the effect of the "born this way narrative" without it being transphobic (in much the same way it was harshly criticized as a tool for gay acceptance, without that criticism being homophobic). And of course people are allowed to disagree with that questioning, without that disagreement having to be along -phobic lines.

(I'm certainly willing to be shown wrong on this, and so if I've missed other transphobic material in Gessen's writing, by all means tell me I'm the one mischaracterizing.)

(edited a sentence for clarity)
posted by mittens at 4:14 AM on August 16, 2019 [5 favorites]

"Transgender individuals, especially those who are most visible in the media, have also by and large adopted the born-this-way narrative: by seeking treatment, the story goes, they are simply trying to bring their bodies in line with their true nature. This serves largely to reinforce rigid gender roles and sexual behavior."

Above quoted from an NYT article linked above, emphasis mine. This is basically a TERF dogwhistle.
posted by Dysk at 4:30 AM on August 16, 2019 [6 favorites]

Interesting take on reforming higher education:

COWEN: How do we fix the college admissions scandal?
[laughter]
COWEN: A simple question.
GESSEN: We nationalize higher education.

Not expand state support for public universities to mid-20th-century levels, but more than that.
posted by doctornemo at 5:14 AM on August 16, 2019

Sounds like she may be trying to understand transgender folks on her own while at the same time recognizing they have a right to exist even if she doesn’t understand them.

Sounds like she may be promulgating misunderstandings and mischaracterisations in an uncharitable way that just happens to line up incredibly well with TERF talking points.

The whole point of dogwhistles is that they look reasonable to people not familiar with the particular thing being dogwhistled about. That's the plausible deniability bit that makes them dogwhistles.
posted by Dysk at 5:43 AM on August 16, 2019 [6 favorites]

Thanks for the link wibari, a fascinating discussion despite my mixed feelings about Gessen. (And thanks to kafziel for contributing further to those mixed feelings.)
posted by inire at 6:07 AM on August 16, 2019

For those dumping on the post...perhaps you could instead post something clarifying what a TERF dogwhistle/TERF talking points are?

I support Metafilter because I learn stuff from it, not so I can watch people Get Mad On The Internet. That's Twitter's role.
posted by Vhanudux at 6:20 AM on August 16, 2019 [5 favorites]

I read the article, and find her viewpoint on the contingency of cultural attitudes fascinating.

For example, her description of the way that Ukrainian and Russian attitudes to politics are different from each other because of the effect of Ukraine's non-totalitarian government since the breakup of the USSR, and how both of those are different from other European countries which were not part of the USSR at all.

Similarly, her opinion that the political activism of recent decades which has emphasised the non-choice of homosexual identity has led to a narrower way of thinking about homosexuality, is worth reflecting on.
posted by vincebowdren at 6:29 AM on August 16, 2019 [4 favorites]

(I don't know if this will end up counting as a derail and getting deleted, but I had a similar question, Vhanudux, and so searched google for "terf dogwhistle site:metafilter.com", which came up with quite a few examples, a lot of comments expanding on and illustrating dysk's point above. I'm going to go ahead and bow out of the discussion at this point.)
posted by mittens at 6:31 AM on August 16, 2019 [2 favorites]

The original post could perhaps do with rewording, given its problematic subject.
posted by acb at 7:05 AM on August 16, 2019