All this information used to be ephemeral
October 25, 2019 10:39 AM Subscribe
"So if it’s hidden, and it could be hidden, it’s hidden really damn well, even from people who are on the inside." Whistleblower and patriot Edward Snowden digitally stopped by Joe Rogan's podcast on October 23. The interview is over three hours long and Rogan almost entirely hands over the microphone to Snowden, who offers a very detailed account of events both prior to and after his 2013 disclosure of the wide-reaching global surveillance programs.
The NSA files [Guardian]
NSA Leaks: A Timeline [Al Jazeera]
Edward Snowden [Twitter]
[Snowden previously]
The NSA files [Guardian]
NSA Leaks: A Timeline [Al Jazeera]
Edward Snowden [Twitter]
[Snowden previously]
"It" --> proof of the existence of UFOs
posted by NervousVarun at 11:05 AM on October 25, 2019 [3 favorites]
posted by NervousVarun at 11:05 AM on October 25, 2019 [3 favorites]
I listened to this interview over the course of 2 days. It's really really good. Snowden is an excellent speaker, and he makes a great case for why he did what he did and why it matters. His book is also excellent.
posted by hopeless romantique at 11:09 AM on October 25, 2019 [5 favorites]
posted by hopeless romantique at 11:09 AM on October 25, 2019 [5 favorites]
It took me a really long time to parse “digitally stopped” and I am a native English speaker.
I was trying to figure out why the interview was 2 hours was long if he was stopped.
posted by affectionateborg at 11:17 AM on October 25, 2019 [1 favorite]
I was trying to figure out why the interview was 2 hours was long if he was stopped.
posted by affectionateborg at 11:17 AM on October 25, 2019 [1 favorite]
First time I've been tempted to wade through a Joe Rogan podcast. I'm not interested in UFO/aliens, they obviously exist but they can't have been here, seems pretty well established by now. The other stuff seems important though and "The interview is over three hours long and Rogan almost entirely hands over the microphone to Snowden" makes me think it might be worth listening to this weekend.
posted by GoblinHoney at 11:18 AM on October 25, 2019 [4 favorites]
posted by GoblinHoney at 11:18 AM on October 25, 2019 [4 favorites]
Yeah, I should've wrote "virtually" instead of "digitally". 🤷
posted by Ahmad Khani at 11:19 AM on October 25, 2019
posted by Ahmad Khani at 11:19 AM on October 25, 2019
How do I know there are no aliens at Area 51?
Impeachment is still in the news.
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 11:29 AM on October 25, 2019 [12 favorites]
Impeachment is still in the news.
posted by Pirate-Bartender-Zombie-Monkey at 11:29 AM on October 25, 2019 [12 favorites]
Here is the time-stamped transcript of the interview.
Edward Snowden: (01:21:08)posted by Ahmad Khani at 11:40 AM on October 25, 2019 [31 favorites]
At that moment, I realize these guys don’t care about the law. These guys don’t care about the constitution. These guys don’t care about the American people. They care about the continuity of government. They care about the state, right? This is something that people have lost. We hear this phrase over and over again, national security, national security, national security. We’re meant to interpret that to mean public safety. National security is a very different thing from public safety. National security is a thing that in previous generations we referred to as state security. National security was a term that came out of the Bush administration to run cover for the fact that we were elevating a new secret police across the country.
"It" --> proof of the existence of UFOs
On the one hand, to be pedantic, UFOs aren't necessarily all that classified. Any time there's a radar return and we can't figure out what it is, that's a UFO, under the literal meaning of the term.
On the other hand, it should be really common knowledge that the whole UFO flap is the product of a military disinformation campaign. A "succeed too well" situation.
On the third hand, the UFO phenomenon is basically religious. UFO mythology is largely faerie tales redressed in a pseudoscience cloth. People seem to have an inherent need to believe in something "Out There" either taking care of or menacing us.
This is as opposed to the "Ancient Aliens" creed, where mostly white people want to believe that white people are so important that aliens came and made the pyramids, not brown people. And will ignore or misinterpret any in-situ evidence that shows the actual local origin of artifacts.
posted by happyroach at 12:20 PM on October 25, 2019 [7 favorites]
On the one hand, to be pedantic, UFOs aren't necessarily all that classified. Any time there's a radar return and we can't figure out what it is, that's a UFO, under the literal meaning of the term.
On the other hand, it should be really common knowledge that the whole UFO flap is the product of a military disinformation campaign. A "succeed too well" situation.
On the third hand, the UFO phenomenon is basically religious. UFO mythology is largely faerie tales redressed in a pseudoscience cloth. People seem to have an inherent need to believe in something "Out There" either taking care of or menacing us.
This is as opposed to the "Ancient Aliens" creed, where mostly white people want to believe that white people are so important that aliens came and made the pyramids, not brown people. And will ignore or misinterpret any in-situ evidence that shows the actual local origin of artifacts.
posted by happyroach at 12:20 PM on October 25, 2019 [7 favorites]
I feel compelled to note that any time his name comes up in my household, I have to append "Worst Boyfriend EVAR!" such that in print it would read: Edward Snowden, Worst Boyfriend EVAR, blah blah blah.......
Simply for all the scrutiny his poor girlfriend received after he took off. He could have at least advised her to lock down her web presence so that people didn'r pour over every word she'd ever written for clues.
posted by Gyre,Gimble,Wabe, Esq. at 12:50 PM on October 25, 2019 [3 favorites]
Simply for all the scrutiny his poor girlfriend received after he took off. He could have at least advised her to lock down her web presence so that people didn'r pour over every word she'd ever written for clues.
posted by Gyre,Gimble,Wabe, Esq. at 12:50 PM on October 25, 2019 [3 favorites]
I can barely make it through a 5 minute clip of Rogan, but as mentioned in the FPP, he basically does hand over the microphone to Snowden, and it is time well spent.
I am a big Snowden fan and I'm looking forward to listening to his book.
There, now I've done it.
Between Snowden and Bernie Sanders, I'm on another damn list somewhere.
posted by Bill Watches Movies Podcast at 12:54 PM on October 25, 2019 [2 favorites]
I am a big Snowden fan and I'm looking forward to listening to his book.
There, now I've done it.
Between Snowden and Bernie Sanders, I'm on another damn list somewhere.
posted by Bill Watches Movies Podcast at 12:54 PM on October 25, 2019 [2 favorites]
it's pretty obvious that any alien civilization that somehow made it past the great filter is just hanging around their own planet because in this universe we obey the laws of thermodynamics
posted by entropicamericana at 1:15 PM on October 25, 2019 [4 favorites]
posted by entropicamericana at 1:15 PM on October 25, 2019 [4 favorites]
The bit where he tells the story about how the various agencies sent people home on 9/11/2001 and Mr. Snowden's takeway sticks out in my head.
As for "it" - The Blue covered the patent about the craft. There is a patent on the superconductor and there is also this.
Now a .3 to 2 meter reactor the Navy has access to would be something Trump would be empowered to blab about if he's looking to change the topic.
posted by rough ashlar at 1:15 PM on October 25, 2019 [1 favorite]
As for "it" - The Blue covered the patent about the craft. There is a patent on the superconductor and there is also this.
Now a .3 to 2 meter reactor the Navy has access to would be something Trump would be empowered to blab about if he's looking to change the topic.
posted by rough ashlar at 1:15 PM on October 25, 2019 [1 favorite]
On the third hand, the UFO phenomenon is basically religious.
Nice try, Zaphod, but just because you worship yourself doesn't mean everyone else does.
posted by J.K. Seazer at 1:17 PM on October 25, 2019 [11 favorites]
Nice try, Zaphod, but just because you worship yourself doesn't mean everyone else does.
posted by J.K. Seazer at 1:17 PM on October 25, 2019 [11 favorites]
Rogan's alright ... or to paraphrase his worst critics coming the other way (ie: the hardcore libertarian bro types), he has a bad habit of getting along with his interviewees, thus he generally goes along with wherever they want the conversation to go. Which gets annoying (for me) if it's the wrong interviewee, but great if it isn't.
Two recent talks I quite enjoyed were with Rob Zombie and Dale Earnhardt Jr. He also got more useful information out of Macauley Culkin than I've ever heard from anyone else.
posted by philip-random at 1:20 PM on October 25, 2019 [5 favorites]
Two recent talks I quite enjoyed were with Rob Zombie and Dale Earnhardt Jr. He also got more useful information out of Macauley Culkin than I've ever heard from anyone else.
posted by philip-random at 1:20 PM on October 25, 2019 [5 favorites]
Best Twitter take:
Joe Rogan: *smokes weed*
Joe Rogan: so like.. *cough cough* is the government actually corrupt?
Edward Snowden: yes
Guy Powerlifting in Planet Fitness: damn bro, that's fucked...
posted by Sangermaine at 1:23 PM on October 25, 2019 [27 favorites]
Joe Rogan: *smokes weed*
Joe Rogan: so like.. *cough cough* is the government actually corrupt?
Edward Snowden: yes
Guy Powerlifting in Planet Fitness: damn bro, that's fucked...
posted by Sangermaine at 1:23 PM on October 25, 2019 [27 favorites]
I feel compelled to note that any time his name comes up in my household, I have to append "Worst Boyfriend EVAR!" such that in print it would read: Edward Snowden, Worst Boyfriend EVAR, blah blah blah.......
Simply for all the scrutiny his poor girlfriend received after he took off. He could have at least advised her to lock down her web presence so that people didn'r pour over every word she'd ever written for clues.
I recommend you read the book! He is very, very candid about his feelings and stress behind his decisions. There's a wonderful ribbon of a love story written through every chapter. At the end of the book is a week of diary entries from his then-girlfriend (spoiler: they are now married) right at the time of him leaving and releasing the documents, which goes a long way to giving her a voice.
posted by hopeless romantique at 2:23 PM on October 25, 2019 [17 favorites]
Simply for all the scrutiny his poor girlfriend received after he took off. He could have at least advised her to lock down her web presence so that people didn'r pour over every word she'd ever written for clues.
I recommend you read the book! He is very, very candid about his feelings and stress behind his decisions. There's a wonderful ribbon of a love story written through every chapter. At the end of the book is a week of diary entries from his then-girlfriend (spoiler: they are now married) right at the time of him leaving and releasing the documents, which goes a long way to giving her a voice.
posted by hopeless romantique at 2:23 PM on October 25, 2019 [17 favorites]
"I know Neil deGrasse Tyson badly wants there to be aliens, and there probably are, but the idea that we’re hiding them… If we are hiding them, I had ridiculous access to the networks at the NSA, the CIA, the military, all these groups. I couldn’t find anything so, if it’s hidden, and it could be hidden, it’s hidden really damn well, even from people who are on the inside."
Darn it, no secret aliens then.
posted by jenfullmoon at 2:42 PM on October 25, 2019
Darn it, no secret aliens then.
posted by jenfullmoon at 2:42 PM on October 25, 2019
and we're taking Snowden's word for it why?
posted by philip-random at 2:58 PM on October 25, 2019 [5 favorites]
posted by philip-random at 2:58 PM on October 25, 2019 [5 favorites]
Yeah, obviously the correct response here is "Oh my god, even EDWARD SNOWDEN is in on it!"
posted by J.K. Seazer at 2:58 PM on October 25, 2019 [6 favorites]
posted by J.K. Seazer at 2:58 PM on October 25, 2019 [6 favorites]
either way, Ahmad -- thanks for the link. This podcast is a big deal. Youtube alone is showing 6,837,703 views as of a few seconds ago. I've been picking through it since yesterday sometime. Lots to absorb ... and no, no mention yet of UFOs. But lots of insider stuff about the sort of middle class suburban banality of America's Security Biz
posted by philip-random at 8:19 PM on October 25, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by philip-random at 8:19 PM on October 25, 2019 [2 favorites]
Mod note: Deleted several; let's not go after each other.
posted by Eyebrows McGee (staff) at 8:20 PM on October 25, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by Eyebrows McGee (staff) at 8:20 PM on October 25, 2019 [1 favorite]
... and no, no mention yet of UFOs.
other than a bit around the thirty minute point that shows up as an aside to the far more interesting stuff about what it's really like in there. The Security Biz, that is. Bureaucratic proceduralism etc ...
posted by philip-random at 8:34 PM on October 25, 2019
other than a bit around the thirty minute point that shows up as an aside to the far more interesting stuff about what it's really like in there. The Security Biz, that is. Bureaucratic proceduralism etc ...
posted by philip-random at 8:34 PM on October 25, 2019
I did not realize this until this evening, but Edward Snowden has contributed 1024 documents to the Internet Archive. And it seems not many are aware of this, as most documents have been viewed only 1,000 times or fewer.
posted by Ahmad Khani at 10:38 PM on October 25, 2019 [9 favorites]
posted by Ahmad Khani at 10:38 PM on October 25, 2019 [9 favorites]
I started reading the transcript this morning and although it's very good the part where he lost me is this whole thing about sending folks home on 9/11. Some fraction of folks working for the NSA and CIA are focused on counter-terrorism. I don't see a problem making an effort to move the other X% (likely a large X) of personnel out of harm's way. You could argue that these agencies over-estimated the threat but at the same time a plane had flown into the Pentagon and there was still a significant number of passenger-carrying missiles in the air.
posted by simra at 12:15 PM on October 26, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by simra at 12:15 PM on October 26, 2019 [1 favorite]
I listened to this whole "interview;" much of it is Snowden giving a series of speeches. He's very sharp and rather a good storyteller, if a bit long-winded. But he makes his case quite well, even though he handwaves away any culpability in harming undercover government agents with his leak. The government says his leak harmed people, he obviously disagrees, and I don't know the truth about that.
Anyway, this is over two hours long and he mentions UFOs as a little blip for about a minute, so I'm not sure why this post is framed about that. But it's an interesting interview I'd recommend. I am now curious about his book (and am equally curious about any rebuttals).
posted by zardoz at 3:55 AM on October 27, 2019 [2 favorites]
Anyway, this is over two hours long and he mentions UFOs as a little blip for about a minute, so I'm not sure why this post is framed about that. But it's an interesting interview I'd recommend. I am now curious about his book (and am equally curious about any rebuttals).
posted by zardoz at 3:55 AM on October 27, 2019 [2 favorites]
I'm not sure why this post is framed about that.
People think they need a hook for their title. If they don't have one, they usually toss in a Dad joke.
posted by thelonius at 4:51 AM on October 27, 2019 [2 favorites]
People think they need a hook for their title. If they don't have one, they usually toss in a Dad joke.
posted by thelonius at 4:51 AM on October 27, 2019 [2 favorites]
"Oh my god, even EDWARD SNOWDEN is in on it!"
Reminds me of that joke:
A JFK conspiracy theorist dies and goes to heaven
When he arrives at the Pearly Gates, God is there to receive him. "Welcome. You are permitted to ask me one question, which I will answer truthfully."
Without hesitating, the conspiracy theorist asks, "Who really shot Kennedy?"
God replies, "Lee Harvey Oswald shot him from sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository. There were no accomplices. He acted alone"
The conspiracy theorist pauses, thinks to himself, then says "Shit! This goes higher up than I thought..."
posted by ymgve at 3:00 PM on October 27, 2019 [8 favorites]
Reminds me of that joke:
A JFK conspiracy theorist dies and goes to heaven
When he arrives at the Pearly Gates, God is there to receive him. "Welcome. You are permitted to ask me one question, which I will answer truthfully."
Without hesitating, the conspiracy theorist asks, "Who really shot Kennedy?"
God replies, "Lee Harvey Oswald shot him from sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository. There were no accomplices. He acted alone"
The conspiracy theorist pauses, thinks to himself, then says "Shit! This goes higher up than I thought..."
posted by ymgve at 3:00 PM on October 27, 2019 [8 favorites]
That was a good listen. I had heard a lot of that information from Glenn Greenwald and Dan Carlin and Rand Paul and the like, but it was nice to hear it from the man himself.
I'd disagree with him in one place: where he says Bush would have lost reelection had the NY Times published their warrant less wiretapping story in 2004. Time has shown that the largest reaction to Snowden and other revelations about the Patriot Act has, unfortunately, been apathy.
posted by riruro at 9:01 AM on November 4, 2019 [1 favorite]
I'd disagree with him in one place: where he says Bush would have lost reelection had the NY Times published their warrant less wiretapping story in 2004. Time has shown that the largest reaction to Snowden and other revelations about the Patriot Act has, unfortunately, been apathy.
posted by riruro at 9:01 AM on November 4, 2019 [1 favorite]
« Older The Freddy Krueger in the room | Cobble something together for dinner this... Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
"It" is a bit... clickbaity.
posted by symbioid at 11:04 AM on October 25, 2019 [2 favorites]