War Hoover
December 11, 2019 9:28 AM Subscribe
The Making Of A Submarine Hunting S-3 Viking Crewman - "This is what it took to become a sub hunter tasked with protecting America's carrier battle groups at the twilight of the Cold War."
Confessions Of A Submarine Hunting S-3 Viking Crewman During The Twilight Of The Cold War - "How the shadowy art of anti-submarine aerial warfare works and what it was like putting it to use while barreling through the sky in an S-3 Viking."
Confessions Of A Submarine Hunting S-3 Viking Crewman During The Twilight Of The Cold War - "How the shadowy art of anti-submarine aerial warfare works and what it was like putting it to use while barreling through the sky in an S-3 Viking."
The S-3 might be the most adorable military aircraft ever.
Lookit the stumpy widdle aewoplane.
posted by dazed_one at 10:31 AM on December 11 [+] [!]
The noise it makes when it flies is "Awwwwwww . . . "
posted by Kibbutz at 11:44 AM on December 11, 2019 [1 favorite]
I misunderstood the headline in my dazed pre-coffee state. I thought they were hunting Vikings with a submarine and I could only wonder about whether it involved a time machine or just some remarkably committed historical re-enactors.
I would totally pay to watch that movie.
posted by Joe in Australia at 12:22 PM on December 11, 2019 [4 favorites]
I would totally pay to watch that movie.
posted by Joe in Australia at 12:22 PM on December 11, 2019 [4 favorites]
Knew this was a Tyler Rogoway article before I'd hovered over the link. Interesting that Patrick George (longest-serving editor at Jalopnik, which used to host Rogoway's articles) just moved over to Drive.
I actually got sucked into Paul Nickell's article about learning to fly the F-14 thanks to this, and love it.
posted by rp at 12:23 PM on December 11, 2019 [1 favorite]
I actually got sucked into Paul Nickell's article about learning to fly the F-14 thanks to this, and love it.
posted by rp at 12:23 PM on December 11, 2019 [1 favorite]
AWWWW wook at the wittiwe warplane!
So there were at least 200 of these built. That's a minimum of $5.4 Billion in unit costs, today's money, not including the infrastructure and staffing they required to run them. A drop in the ocean of military spending, but one that could have say, paid for 27,000 full rides to college, or 5 city-sized hospitals and associated staffing for 10 years....or....or....or........
Every time you see something like this the response should be
"technically neat, morally foul"
posted by lalochezia at 12:53 PM on December 11, 2019 [10 favorites]
I too love these kinds of whoosh pew-pew articles (particularly about other people's exotic workplaces and cultures of training and working), and I'm really glad that Hush Kit, a website about planes, wrote the Pacifist's Guide To Military Aircraft which covers many of my feelings also.
As a child, I took part in CND marches and also delighted in memorising the maximum weapon load of every fighter and bomber. Moral repulsion and aesthetic appreciation often co-exist. The innocence of ‘train-spotting’ is the feeling of safety which arises approaching a subject in a simple way. It is about removing the subject from complicated ambiguity. Train-spotting is not about trains. Maybe the same is true of any mono-mania.posted by Fiasco da Gama at 7:00 PM on December 11, 2019 [3 favorites]
Every time you see something like this the response should beI guess I’m not as morally developed so as to forgo the need for a military. It turns out pacificism is not a stable strategy at the country level because the cheaters take all your stuff and enslave all your people.
"technically neat, morally foul"
posted by Gilgamesh's Chauffeur at 8:23 PM on December 11, 2019 [3 favorites]
So there were at least 200 of these built. That's a minimum of $5.4 Billion in unit costs, today's money, not including the infrastructure and staffing they required to run them. A drop in the ocean of military spending, but one that could have say, paid for 27,000 full rides to college, or 5 city-sized hospitals and associated staffing for 10 years....or....or....or........
Except at the most gross and aggregate level, there's no real tradeoff between government programs. Doing more of one thing doesn't mean having to do less of another; governments don't have budgets the way that families do.
If Americans had wanted to fund 27000 full rides or 5 city hospitals, we would have just done those things too and either found the money and/or just shoved it into the future. The reason we don't have more college scholarship money or health care money isn't that some constraint prevents us from fulfilling our desire to do so, it's that we express the collective desire not to do those things.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 9:12 PM on December 11, 2019 [11 favorites]
Except at the most gross and aggregate level, there's no real tradeoff between government programs. Doing more of one thing doesn't mean having to do less of another; governments don't have budgets the way that families do.
If Americans had wanted to fund 27000 full rides or 5 city hospitals, we would have just done those things too and either found the money and/or just shoved it into the future. The reason we don't have more college scholarship money or health care money isn't that some constraint prevents us from fulfilling our desire to do so, it's that we express the collective desire not to do those things.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 9:12 PM on December 11, 2019 [11 favorites]
"There's always enough money for freedom bombs." -Atrios
posted by j_curiouser at 9:15 PM on December 11, 2019
posted by j_curiouser at 9:15 PM on December 11, 2019
So, Gil...you might have to consider something a little nuanced: when you talk about spending money on defense - They. Are. Lying. A. Lot.
posted by j_curiouser at 9:20 PM on December 11, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by j_curiouser at 9:20 PM on December 11, 2019 [2 favorites]
I think the Viking was also used for “carrier on board delivery,” which is to say it was the grocery getter and mail plane (maybe later in its career).
I don’t remember the specifics but in terms of ROI, I seem to recall a lot of naval aviation buffs suggesting it was retired early to justify acquisition of newer and sexier planes. Like with the A-10.
posted by snuffleupagus at 2:21 AM on December 12, 2019
I don’t remember the specifics but in terms of ROI, I seem to recall a lot of naval aviation buffs suggesting it was retired early to justify acquisition of newer and sexier planes. Like with the A-10.
posted by snuffleupagus at 2:21 AM on December 12, 2019
looking it up, seems like the delivery role was pitched as a life extension for the S3, not sure if anything came of it.
I thought I had read about it being used for different logistics stuff but I guess it was just as a small tanker.
posted by snuffleupagus at 2:27 AM on December 12, 2019
I thought I had read about it being used for different logistics stuff but I guess it was just as a small tanker.
posted by snuffleupagus at 2:27 AM on December 12, 2019
I don’t think it’s unreasonable to believe the military is not only a necessity but a good and honorable thing for people to do and also believe it is wrong-headed, wasteful, and currently working against our best interests.
posted by Big Al 8000 at 6:19 AM on December 12, 2019 [1 favorite]
posted by Big Al 8000 at 6:19 AM on December 12, 2019 [1 favorite]
The reason we don't have more college scholarship money or health care money isn't that some constraint prevents us from fulfilling our desire to do so, it's that we express the collective desire not to do those things.
the word "collective" is doing more lifting in that sentence than all the fucking aircraft carriers that we've "willed" our way into in the last 50 years.
posted by lalochezia at 9:34 AM on December 12, 2019
the word "collective" is doing more lifting in that sentence than all the fucking aircraft carriers that we've "willed" our way into in the last 50 years.
posted by lalochezia at 9:34 AM on December 12, 2019
Sure, but it's that preference aggregation that binds us, not some hypothetical alternative one.
Anyway, I didn't mean that to particularly support S-3s or military spending. I just really don't like the mode of argument "If we hadn't wasted our money on X, we could have done Y," and would strongly prefer the simpler alternative of "If we hadn't wasted our money on X, we wouldn't have wasted our money on X."
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 10:28 AM on December 12, 2019 [2 favorites]
Anyway, I didn't mean that to particularly support S-3s or military spending. I just really don't like the mode of argument "If we hadn't wasted our money on X, we could have done Y," and would strongly prefer the simpler alternative of "If we hadn't wasted our money on X, we wouldn't have wasted our money on X."
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 10:28 AM on December 12, 2019 [2 favorites]
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Lookit the stumpy widdle aewoplane.
posted by dazed_one at 10:31 AM on December 11, 2019 [4 favorites]