But they left out Becky Chambers!
December 20, 2019 3:50 PM   Subscribe

2010-2019: A Decade of Change in Science Fiction & Fantasy Four writers from the tor.com website discuss trends in SF/F over the 2010s, and just generally get real excited about books.
posted by exceptinsects (20 comments total) 29 users marked this as a favorite
 
Boy, that was a long conversation! They really touched on everything. I had forgotten a few of these, and hadn't heard of lots more. And learned a few things too. Definitely worth scanning through for anyone looking for a plane-home type read.
posted by BlackLeotardFront at 5:04 PM on December 20, 2019


That was quite long even skimming. Don't read 'about' SFF too much, just wanna immerse. But yea a murderbot book is coming out soon. Gotta get into Fifth Season, but I'm much more a SF than an F, Jemisin needs to do an amazing space opera. I don't do horror but started Grant's Feed without context and it was interesting but got to the end and arghhh it's zombies, don't like zombies, quite a good read though. Interesting that there were not many that I was not aware of. Not surprised they skipped Becky, no zombies on that spaceship.
posted by sammyo at 5:54 PM on December 20, 2019


JFC they weren’t kidding about this being long.

Reactions, similarly disorganised:

- 100% here for Katniss marrying “Cake Boy”.

- “I think that far more people started reading epic fantasy because of Game of Thrones. [Brandon] Sanderson, obviously, has had a really steady career track as far as that goes. Every single one of his big chonky ones in The Stormlight Archive—every single one is more popular than the last” - I respect Brando Sando‘s productivity but good lord I hope he doesn’t became the template for future fantasy writers. The man’s incapable of seeing an ambiguity without crowbarring it into an exhaustingly delineated magic system.

- I would appreciate recs re CL Polk’s Witchmark, because it sounds good in principle but the cover is dreadful.

- I wish there was a link to the ‘Senator Bilbo’ story, because it sounds fascinating.

- Shoutout to Victor LaValle, who has never written a bad story.

- I am unclear whether Martha Wells’ Murderbot stories are good or just popular.

- “I hope that eventually we will have a Goblin Emperor Cinematic Universe.” An appalling suggestion that will no doubt result in 17 terrible movies.

- Carmen Maria Machado is an indescribably wonderful writer who everyone should read.
posted by inire at 6:00 PM on December 20, 2019 [2 favorites]


Also, I question whether Chambers merits inclusion even in such a wide-ranging summary as this.
posted by inire at 6:09 PM on December 20, 2019 [3 favorites]


Andy Duncan's books of stories "An Agent of Utopia" contains the Senator Bilbo story. I read that collection this year, and it was one of my favorite books of the year. Some of these stories often read like tall tale/folk tales. Or he takes a real thing/person (e.g., Zora Neal Hurston, Jess Willard, aka the Pottawatomie Giant) and weaves a story around them. I was absolutely fascinated by this book.

I think the Murderbot stories are good, largely because the Murderbot character is enjoyable to read about. It's a cyborg who really wants just to hang out and watch its favorite serials, except when the humans it's protecting get into trouble. Then it figuratively sighs deeply and does what needs to be done. It's also really good at a lot of things, so there's some competence porn there, if you like that (I do.)
posted by Archer25 at 6:31 PM on December 20, 2019 [5 favorites]


Are these side-eye criticisms about Chambers and Wells more than just complaints that women wrote SFF, because there sure are a lot of complaints that women wrote SFF, including the "Chambers merits discussion" link above.
posted by Lyn Never at 6:49 PM on December 20, 2019 [8 favorites]


Whether or not you think Chambers is any good, I certainly think her brand of “cozy SF” is an emerging genre worth discussing.
posted by exceptinsects at 6:52 PM on December 20, 2019 [3 favorites]


I really enjoyed this discussion and my swelling “to-read” list just ticked over to “not enough time in my lifetime to read all these.” (It was already crazy thanks recent Ask of mine about books like The Starless Sea where I got so many amazing suggestions that I got overwhelmed and decided this is the month I’ll finally read Sanderson’s Mistborn series. Mainly I went that route so I can listen to the Mistborn Spoilers podcast by the guys who already do the amazing Wheel of Time Spoilers podcast.)

I have yet to read a fantasy or SF book with queer women. It was great to get a huge chunk of recommendations there in the middle of this interview.
posted by the thorn bushes have roses at 7:33 PM on December 20, 2019 [2 favorites]


Even in what's turning out to be a very eye-rolly holiday media season (the Rowling mess, TROS, the Cats movie, etc.), I don't think that I've rolled my eyes harder over anything as much as that Chambers critique linked above; doing something like changing the acronym of a book to something that's meant to be insulting (because... cocoa is bad, I guess? Not edgy enough?) should be a big warning sign that your group is about to indulge in the worst wankery, but they blew right past it without the brake lights flashing once.
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:50 PM on December 20, 2019 [9 favorites]


Since they spend some time on this: "strong female characters." Does this phrase refer predominantly to "strong" in the sense of kicking ass? i grew up reading a lot of pretty unwoke stuff from the '50s and when I encountered the criticism that these lacked strong women, I always thought the complaint meant the characters they had weren't fully imagined or were just a leveling up rewards for the male protagonists. But the phrase as used here (and other places) is making me think a lot of people just want their women to know kung fu?
posted by mark k at 9:00 PM on December 20, 2019


People talk about how great Paolo Bacigalupi's worldbuilding is and I don't quite see it. Granted, I've only read Windup Girl, but that was basically, "OMG I went to Bangkok and there was a blackout and I have to tell everyone about it!" (In the vein of the joke people used to make about cyberpunk and Japan.) Reading that did not make me want to invest time in his other stuff. Does it get more original?

With regards to the snarking about Chambers and Wells: there's definitely a theory that things that are fun or have happy endings are therefore not "good." Writing a fun story or something with a happy ending and making it work is really difficult. I'm not sure why so many people look down their noses at it.
posted by rednikki at 10:15 PM on December 20, 2019 [4 favorites]


mark k, it seems to me that we wanted fictional women with agency but what sold was women who knew Kung fu, and there’s been some elision since.

I found myself walking over to my bookcase to verify that kinds of SF here described as new did already exist. Lots of stuff is new, yay, but forgetting stuff that’s all of 25 years old seems like the first step in forgetting most of now’s new 25 years hence. And it would be nice not to have to take the second step dozens of times.
posted by clew at 12:31 AM on December 21, 2019 [4 favorites]


People talk about how great Paolo Bacigalupi's worldbuilding is and I don't quite see it. Granted, I've only read Windup Girl

Yeah, I bounced off TWG pretty hard too, in large part because of the worldbuilding. The whole setup just seemed very silly, especially the global refusal to use non-biotech to do work.

With regards to the snarking about Chambers and Wells: there's definitely a theory that things that are fun or have happy endings are therefore not "good.

Angry Planet and Spaceborn Few don't have happy endings. They all still end up being relentlessly positive books, but still.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 5:59 AM on December 21, 2019 [1 favorite]


Murderbot series is great. i didn’t think i would like because welll murder robot is not my idea of fun.

i identity so much with MB tho. for love of god just let me read me books/watch my series in peace.
posted by affectionateborg at 7:07 AM on December 21, 2019 [5 favorites]


Gotta get into Fifth Season, but I'm much more a SF than an F, Jemisin needs to do an amazing space opera

She's doing that right now in the form of a Green Lantern comic series.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 12:57 PM on December 21, 2019


I would argue The Fifth Season isn't very fantasy, actually. It's on the boundary.
posted by suelac at 1:54 PM on December 21, 2019


I read Witchmark recently and liked it a lot. The next book is coming out in February, and I'm looking forward to it.
posted by mogget at 6:21 PM on December 21, 2019


Yeah, The Fifth Season if it's magic is highly rationalized. It's not numinous to the people involved.

Heck, there's thoroughly-elaborated ecology, which never happens in SF unless you consider Dorothy Heydt SF.
posted by away for regrooving at 12:35 AM on December 22, 2019


inire: "I wish there was a link to the ‘Senator Bilbo’ story, because it sounds fascinating."

Oh, gosh, not to me. I mean, maybe it's brilliant, but it sure sounds incredibly obvious and ham-fisted.
posted by Chrysostom at 7:40 PM on December 22, 2019 [1 favorite]


it sure sounds incredibly obvious and ham-fisted

Very probably! Mostly fascinated to see how (or whether) it engages with Tolkien and his politics, beyond using his world and characters as set dressing, but I accept the odds are poor.

Are these side-eye criticisms about Chambers and Wells more than just complaints that women wrote SFF, because there sure are a lot of complaints that women wrote SFF, including the "Chambers merits discussion" link above.

You’re right, that’s definitely it, that’s the whole argument. ◔_◔
posted by inire at 5:03 AM on December 23, 2019


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