New 20Gb iPod - now with official PC support from Apple.
July 17, 2002 8:18 AM   Subscribe

New 20Gb iPod - now with official PC support from Apple.
Non-moving dust-proof scroll wheel, fast charge battery, wired remote control, thinner, I want one!
posted by Mwongozi (56 comments total)
Also announced at the keynote speech was a new 17" widescreen iMac, which I thinks look a bit ugly - the screen is too big for the base.
posted by Mwongozi at 8:20 AM on July 17, 2002

Anybody want to buy a 5GB iPod?
posted by fpatrick at 8:23 AM on July 17, 2002

This seems like way too little too late. Creative released a 40G mp3 player that is the same price as the 20G ipod.Nomad 3 Nice try Apple, but you failed again...
posted by hummus at 8:25 AM on July 17, 2002

Are you kidding? The Nomad 3 is huge, there's no way I'm carrying around that sucker with me.
posted by Mwongozi at 8:30 AM on July 17, 2002

and the UI for the nomad blows goats
posted by Mick at 8:39 AM on July 17, 2002

Hrm. Actualy, that non-movable scroll wheel seems quite a bit less cool then the orgional. Tactile feedback can actualy count for something.
posted by delmoi at 8:47 AM on July 17, 2002

Hummus: have you actually used one of those Namd jukeboxes? In addition to being heftier than Oprah, it has a terrible UI compared to the ipod.
posted by emptyage at 8:50 AM on July 17, 2002

I love the Nomad II for its tiny size and decent interface, but the Nomad jukebox takes me back to the days of carrying a giant boombox around on my shoulder. I never met an apple product I liked until now-- but the iPod is close to miraculous...
posted by fncll at 8:57 AM on July 17, 2002

I have the original 5Gb iPod, and the wheel has certain drawbacks, it collects dirt, it has a tendency to spin on it's own if you're walking with it in your pocket or in your hand. Using the lock switch solves the problem, but then you can't adjust the volume even when you want to.
Of course the wired remote would allow you to turn lock on, but it's still nice to think it won't get so dirty.
posted by Mwongozi at 8:58 AM on July 17, 2002

This seems like way too little too late. Creative released a 40G mp3 player that is the same price as the 20G ipod. Nomad 3 Nice try Apple, but you failed again...

Nice try, hummus. Thanks for the laugh, I needed it. :)
posted by jca at 9:03 AM on July 17, 2002

Nice try Apple, but you failed again...

I disagree, hummus. I really like the size and shape (aka form factor) of the ipod over the creative products. It was the big and bulky aspect of the nomad that made me pass it by when it first came out with what was an amazing 6gb at the time. With the firewire and compact physical size combo, I find myself think more and more about buying my first Apple product...
posted by holycola at 9:05 AM on July 17, 2002

Size matters, the ipod is MUCH smaller, which lends itself to easy carry around, and 20 gigs is a hell of alot of music. 5 gigs wasn't impressive, but anything over 10 should satisfy nearly everyone.
posted by madmanz123 at 9:08 AM on July 17, 2002

The huge new iPod looks cool.

So I just updated iTunes this morning, and I saw the os 10.2 ads on the apple site. Is that going to be a free upgrade for current X users? I can't tell from the site.

Also, what is happening to the free iTools accounts if .mac is now going to be paid-for service?

I also heard Real finally released a beta player for OS X today.

(anyone wanting to seriously get rid of their old iPod, contact me, will ya? I'm looking for an old one)
posted by mathowie at 9:17 AM on July 17, 2002

Is that going to be a free upgrade for current X users? I can't tell from the site.

$129. An expensive upgrade I think.
posted by crayfish at 9:24 AM on July 17, 2002

fpatrick- yes, yes I would. Email me if you're serious.

and in regards to real player, about time. Wonder what took them so long? Did they just not care?
posted by atom128 at 9:25 AM on July 17, 2002


I saw the os 10.2 ads on the apple site. Is that going to be a free upgrade for current X users?
Yes and no. OS 10.2 costs $129 ($69 with edu-discount). There's no special upgrade cost. However, most Macs come with a couple "Up-to-Date" coupons, which may be redeemed (with $20) for 10.2.

what is happening to the free iTools accounts if .mac is now going to be paid-for service?
They are sadly going poof.
posted by Marquis at 9:27 AM on July 17, 2002

Uhh. Let me backtrack on that Up-to-Date thing. I was just parroting what I read in the Keynote thread, but this page implies that I'm wrong.
posted by Marquis at 9:30 AM on July 17, 2002

I don't understand. The Nomad has twice the disk space for the same price. The IPod has ten hours of playback while the Nomad can go up to 22 (it comes with 11 hours standard). And the Nomad is only three ounces heavier -- granted that is without batteries, but does include twice the disk space.

The specs don't even line up -- why would anyone consider the ipod?
posted by hummus at 9:57 AM on July 17, 2002

I currently use the slim-x by iriver, which is a cd based mp3 player. very small, portable, nice inline remote thats very intuiative.

Iriver America

Imagine one that plays DVD's....there you go buddy that would be sweet.
posted by bobadoci at 10:01 AM on July 17, 2002

It's not so much I mind paying over $100 for a .x-level upgrade (though I do), but is Apple really serious about packaging OS 10.2 in leopard--er, Jaguar-print? That combined with the switch to overly-leaded Myriad and away from Garamond has me a little worried about Apple's polished design sense.
posted by robbie01 at 10:01 AM on July 17, 2002

However, most Macs come with a couple "Up-to-Date" coupons, which may be redeemed (with $20) for 10.2.

What form do these coupons take? I just bought a Mac and I don't think I got any coupons.
posted by timeistight at 10:02 AM on July 17, 2002

hummus: because the nomad is as big as a CD player, almost... it doesn't look pocket size at all.. and because from what I gather the interface is horrendously cumbersome..
posted by twiggy at 10:04 AM on July 17, 2002

Size matters, the ipod is MUCH smaller, which lends itself to easy carry around

Boy, I cringe to think that the neanderthals from a couple of years ago, forced to carry around one of ye olde fashioned portable CD players - roughly equal in size to that Nomad3 - and how they had to suffer under the size and weight of the things! I can't even begin to imagine how they coped under the sheer gravitational forces that thing incurred on them.

What? You can still buy them? For pennies on the iPod dollar? What!? Do they come with a wheelbarrow to push the massive things around in? Or maybe a pack mule?
posted by crunchland at 10:05 AM on July 17, 2002

Yea, They are completely screwing us with the upgrade. when 10.0.4 went to 10.1, you could redeem one of the 10.0.4 up to date coupons for ~$20 upgrade. Now the 10.1 up to date coupons i have with my newer iBook....worthless. This seems so....win98 SE.

It seems to me, that there are going to be a lot of folks out there who are going to say "$129 for a .x upgrade? When they told me i could use these coupons? no thanks...i'll just copy my pals new os x disk"...and feel justified doing so.
posted by das_2099 at 10:08 AM on July 17, 2002

i have a Nomad jukebox. i can't put it in my pocket - whereas I can put my portable CD player in my pocket. it's not an accurate comparison. anyway, if you compute volumes in cubic meters, you get:

nomad: 0.00055965
apple: 0.00013214

so, the nomad 4.2 times bigger, and 1.4 times heavier. (10.2 oz vs. 7.2 oz).

Regardless of the numbers, the basic facts of actual useage are:
1. I can't carry the Nomad in any convenient way.
2. It's possibly the worst user interface I've used in a consumer electronics device.
3. It crashes roughly half the time I'm constructing playlists, meaning I lose the hundred song list I've painstakingly put together with its terrible interface.
4. It mysteriously will not communicate with my dekstop, though it communicates with my laptop, despite the fact that both are Win2k machines.
5. The time lag between turning the jog whell for the volume and the volume change actually occuring is on the order of whole seconds.
posted by badstone at 10:13 AM on July 17, 2002

Does the Nomad have FireWire?
posted by D at 10:17 AM on July 17, 2002

the new ipod on windows integrates with MusicMatch, which is a CD ripper program. does that mean you can only put your ripped cds onto the ipod and can't put the mp3s you download onto it?
posted by deftone at 10:19 AM on July 17, 2002

Yes and no. OS 10.2 costs $129 ($69 with edu-discount). There's no special upgrade cost.

One thing to consider with the OS upgrade is that this is just what apple has always done. I have been a mac fan since the beginning (still on my mac classic), and if memory serves me correctly I have paid for the major upgrades. 7.0 - > 7.5 -> 8.0 -> 8.5 -> 9.0

Just because they didn't use the .5 mark up this time people are going nuts over paying for it. Yes it sucks that apple likes to give us upgrades every year and charge us for them, but what can you do if you must "keep up with the Jone's" so to speak?
posted by thebwit at 10:21 AM on July 17, 2002

There is a new Nomad that hasn't been announced yet that is the size of an Ipod. I was watching Computer Chronicals on PBS and they did a tour of the creative headquarters. The CEO pulled the unit out of his shirt pocket. It is 40gb.
posted by tomplus2 at 10:22 AM on July 17, 2002

deftone: shouldn't think so. Musicmatch is an mp3 player as well as a ripper (and a burner, and a conduit to my aging Rio 500, etc). I would think that anything it can play, it would put on your device. That's certainly how it works for me.
posted by walrus at 10:27 AM on July 17, 2002

The new nomad does have firewire. It also has an extra slot for a second battery which (I belive) means you can have up to 20 hours at a shot. It still has basically the same form factor and UI as the old ones.

I have an ipod. I prefer it to the Nomad, but different people have different requirements.
posted by willnot at 10:31 AM on July 17, 2002

It's $499? I want one, in a tecnhogeeklust kinda way. However, I think that I could spend $500 on new CDs, keep using my discman (wich is mp3-ready, for those downloads) and be even happier.
posted by sj at 10:37 AM on July 17, 2002

With respect to the update pricing question, my answer is to call and complain. A lot. Apple is usually pretty cognizant of the needs and desires of its customers, and so should be willing to accomodate you. Especially in this case, where it's just an update. Twenty bucks I can see, but over one hundred?
posted by monju_bosatsu at 11:18 AM on July 17, 2002

Sucks for the people who bought the 5GB iPod yesterday on ebay for over $300:

Completed Sales
posted by jonah at 11:59 AM on July 17, 2002

I'd like to have either a mic input or a way to dump digital pictures from a camera into the iPod.
posted by panopticon at 12:09 PM on July 17, 2002

Creative and iPod seem to be in a gigabyte arms race, but I can't really see the utility. I bought a 10GB iPod about three weeks ago and I haven't filled even half of it yet.

Do you really need over 200 hours of music on a device with a 10-hour battery? You can download another day's worth of music in far less time than it takes to recharge the battery.
posted by timeistight at 12:11 PM on July 17, 2002

Version numbers are just psychological. If apple had decided to call version 10.2 version "11" would anyone be bitching about the $129 upgrade?
posted by pjdoland at 12:16 PM on July 17, 2002

timeistight: the appeal of larger capacity is that one can have all your music on your person all the time, so you can listen to anything that comes to mind, without having to pre-plan what you're going to jam out to today. Hey, I can do that with CDs and a discman for way less. I guess most people could fit all of their albums onto a 5gig drive, but us CD-hoarding fatcats have been waiting for the 20-gigger for a while.
posted by D at 12:24 PM on July 17, 2002

Question: Does that firewire interface work on PCs? I thought this was an obstacle before. Special hardware needed or something?

On the ipod v. jukebox thing - you cannot jog with the jukebox. Too big, unless you like having that metal thing whack your booty the entire time.

Which some people do.
posted by lawtalkinguy at 12:29 PM on July 17, 2002

I'd be happy with 5GB, that is less than my entire CD collection, but it is way more than I will listen to in a finite amount of time.
As I've been considering buying one of these mp3 players, the question that has most worried me is the user interface. From what I had read (confirmed here) the Nomad interface is annoying and hard to use, while the iPod interface is quite useable & easy to navigate through. So the fact that the iPod is now officially supported for Windows XP makes me much more inclined to consider it.
Anybody have any experience with the Archos MP3 jukebox/recorder? What seemed attractive to me about it was the price, as well as the fact that you can rip CDs to MP3 format directly, without having to go through your computer. How is its interface?
posted by Rebis at 12:33 PM on July 17, 2002

Until I get a new PC or do an upgrade and get a firewire card, I can't use an iPod, until then I am more than happy with my Philips eXpanium MP3 CD player. But yes I would like to buy an iPod too.
posted by riffola at 12:37 PM on July 17, 2002

with regards to the question timesight posed...

i record music at home, and since have a mixer, monitor speakers, and a power amp. this setup serves as my sound system for mixing down demos, my g4 sound, and a tape deck i have in the mix as well. what i'm trying to get at, is when i have my ipod at home, it's patched into this loop as well. my ipod is my home stereo in a sense (along with all that other gear) and as such having all my music digitized is not only just cool (and stuff) but also very practical. it's like having a N-disc cd changer and as you buy new cds you just keep sticking them all in the changer.

currently i only have a 5giger, but i'm pretty much salivating over the 20-mfing-gigs... I have been reluctant to fill my ipod completely as it makes an excellent transfer device.

that's the other perk of the ipod not mentioned so far - it's a portable firewire hard drive. need to get that copy of 10.2 you "found" home? just throw'em on your ipod.
posted by folktrash at 12:58 PM on July 17, 2002 he sits there, salivating over the beautiful display of technological advancements... he ponders why the world must be so cruel as to not have provided him with the resources to buy such things...

Or maybe it's because i'm a lazy bastard? I have first generation mp3 CD Player. What I *really* want is the Compaq Ipaq Personal MiniCD Player. My friend got one through a friend who works somewhere where apparently he had access to one. Damn is that sucker sweet or what?

Normally I don't like Compaq but that little baby is beautiful.
posted by spidre at 1:19 PM on July 17, 2002

wow that's awesome. perfect. the Nomad is a goddam ridiculous comparison. it sucks. it blows. i can't tell if it sucks more or blows more. even if it wasn't huge and bulky and huge and weird and bulky and huge and weird, the ipod is a different animal interface-wise. apple's durability and consistency of design are second to none. it's still too damn expensive but wow, that's perfection. i'll buy the new nomad if it's EXACTLY like the ipod, but cheaper.
posted by aLienated at 1:30 PM on July 17, 2002

Archos MP3 jukebox/recorder

if it's anything like this then i would avoid it. i have a 20gb of this and many times want to throw it against the wall. after corresponding with the company, i've declared them evil incarnate. avoid at all costs. (or buy mine from me. they're great!)
posted by dobbs at 1:33 PM on July 17, 2002

spidre, Philips makes far better MiniCD MP3 players.
posted by riffola at 1:34 PM on July 17, 2002

I bought a 10GB iPod about three weeks ago and I haven't filled even half of it yet.

but us CD-hoarding fatcats have been waiting for the 20-gigger for a while

I'll be getting one of the 20 giggers. I like to use it in the car whenever we go on long trips. No fiddling, trying to find a decent radio stations and no annoying commercials. Music I like, all the time.

My mp3 collection now stands at approx 19,000 songs / 95 GB / 55 days of non-stop, non-repeat music.
posted by warhol at 1:46 PM on July 17, 2002

For me, it came down to price and what I was actually going to use my player for. I got a 20 gig Nomad Jukebox back in January, when Apple's iPod cost significantly more and only had 5 gigs of storage. Sure the Nomad is bigger (about the size of a portable CD player) and the interface ain't so hot, but it gives me what I want: lots and lots of space for music for a non-absurd price. My main use of the Nomad is for long car trips, where it performs wonderfully. If I were using it for jogging or similar things, I would consider an iPod a little more seriously.

With regards to the crashes, my Nomad crashed maybe once, and that's it. The software it comes bundled with is another story, but there are enough third party shareware alternatives.

It's nice to see that the iPod is up to 20 gigs, finally (it does look like a snazzy little toy), but if I were presented with getting a Nomad 3 with 40 gigs or (for more) an iPod with 20 gigs, I'd still opt for the Nomad (especially since the Nomad 3 also supports Firewire).
posted by laze at 1:57 PM on July 17, 2002

Oh my riffola! I didn't know anyone else made the Mini CD Mp3 players! Awesome, thanks alot man!
posted by spidre at 2:09 PM on July 17, 2002

I sold my 5GB iPod a couple months ago and recently bought a 40GB Nomad Jukebox 3. It fits fine in my pocket (who are you people who can't put CD players in your pockets?) but its UI does indeed bite, and while it does have a lot of cool features, it also has several fundamental features that are inexplicably missing, such as the ability to simply play all the songs on the device. I'm on the verge of ditching the Nomad Jukebox and getting a 20GB iPod even though it'd mean losing half the capacity and taking a loss.
posted by kindall at 3:40 PM on July 17, 2002

I love my nomad! I take it everywhere... walking, running, in the car... it is friggin' amazing. How does the UI "suck?" Seems to work just fine for me... but hey, maybe I haven't been touched by that special apple magic in awhile.

Kindall's right about the ability to load up every song in an intuitive way -- although it really only takes about a minute to go through an entire list of 350 cds and add each one to the queue.

My only other complaint was the lack of a remote... which seems to have been fixed in the the Nomad III. At any rate, I paid something like $260 for a 20gig nomad. The nomad, while rather large at about 12 ounces, actually has a nicely shapped body, subtely curved to fit in your hand while you carry it.
posted by ph00dz at 7:53 PM on July 17, 2002

Anytime spidre, I've got a Philips eXpanium 301, and although it doesn't read ID3 tags (the newer models do), and it refuses to work with Energiser batteries, I'd recommend it.
posted by riffola at 8:30 PM on July 17, 2002

For those who are looking for a solution to the Nomad's UI problems, check out Red Chair's Notmad Explorer. It's a ~$25 little program that is almost universally recognized as the godsend software for Creative portable users of all types.

Size does matter. A lot of people are content with 5 or 10 GB, but you gotta realize a lot of us also have mp3 collections of 40+ gigs. I've held off on buying an mp3 player because I don't want to deal with having to constantly delete/add new files onto the player. I just want to copy my whole freakin collection on their and not have to worry about it. Unfortunately, at this point my mp3 collection has been growing faster than portable hard drives. It's catching up, though.
posted by swank6 at 9:12 PM on July 17, 2002

I have 20gb of MP3s on my computer, and a few CDRs full of stuff I never listen to.

However, instead of buying a costly new hard drive so I have some space to place with, I've decided to force my collection down to 6gb. I find I listen to the same small set of albums and singles over and over anyway. I listen to hardly anything I listened to a year ago, so keeping all those MP3s is pointless.

I'm not sure more than 5gb is really useful for people. Sure it'd be nice to keep ALL of your music in one place, but I'd imagine the number of people who actively listen to more than 5gb's selection in a month is extremely low.
posted by wackybrit at 11:34 PM on July 17, 2002

...Archos Jukebox...

I've had one of these (the Studio 20) for a little over 6 months now. It's great. Small enough to fit in my pocket along with a moblie phone, no less.

Not as thin as the new iPod, certainly, but cheaper (read: huge plus), and also 20GB.

The Nomad's not bad, just bulky.
posted by yellowcandy at 11:10 AM on July 18, 2002

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