Nothing more British than fish and chips, brought in by immigrants

February 21, 2020 9:39 AM

"Fish and chips are the undisputed National dish of Great Britain," declare the National Federation of Fish Friers (The NFFF), who briefly mention the Jewish immigrants who brought fried white fish to England. Atlas Obsucra's Gastro Obscura documents that history of Jews fleeing persecution in Spain, with a brief retelling of the longer podcast from Simon Majumdar. Curious Rambler credits Belgian housewives with the invention of chips, while Wikipedia has a global array of styles and possible sources for chips (previously). Happy Fish Fry Friday!
posted by filthy light thief (48 comments total)

Bonus tidbit: The history of fish and chips: a (brief) timeline from Royal Museums Greenwich.
posted by filthy light thief at 9:41 AM on February 21, 2020

Obviously indigenous people of the Americas invented fried potatoes, because they invented potatoes as a domesticated crop. You can't tell that me a civilization that grew potatoes as a staple food for centuries never once tried chopping them up into small pieces and frying them. European countries should stop even trying to argue about which of them "invented" this dish; they all imported it.
posted by BlueJae at 10:02 AM on February 21, 2020 [9 favorites]

Happy Fish Fry Friday!

Friday fish fries don't start here until next week after Lent starts.
posted by octothorpe at 10:19 AM on February 21, 2020 [2 favorites]

Growing up, fish and chips was my favourite meal. Now, as an adult, I can hardly stomach it. I feel like this is a metaphor for something.
posted by Acey at 10:21 AM on February 21, 2020 [2 favorites]

Obviously indigenous people of the Americas invented fried potatoes, because they invented potatoes as a domesticated crop. You can't tell that me a civilization that grew potatoes as a staple food for centuries never once tried chopping them up into small pieces and frying them.

Good point, and it raises an interesting question, to the history of the creation of oil, and its use in cooking. Erin Nudi has a summary (without citations), starting in 8000 to 5500BC in China and Egypt, and with the Portuguese helping to spread the word of fried dough across the globe (1440s to 1530s) when they settled first in uninhabited islands off their own coast, then later to the North and South Americas, colonizing Brazil in particular. Later still, they arrived in Hawaii. Then in 1700 to 1800, the Pennsylvania Dutch (German immigrants) brought funnel cakes to America.
posted by filthy light thief at 10:42 AM on February 21, 2020 [8 favorites]

I do love fish and chips but I live with an otherwise wonderful person who is ambivalent about fish.

We've found that Halloumi, battered and fried the same way, makes a really excellent substitute. It's no better for you, but at least it's vegetarian.
posted by bonehead at 11:10 AM on February 21, 2020 [5 favorites]

Thanks bonehead, that sounds tasty, and now I want some!
posted by evilDoug at 11:14 AM on February 21, 2020

Growing up, fish and chips was my favourite meal. Now, as an adult, I can hardly stomach it. I feel like this is a metaphor for something.

I (a non-British person who did not grow up eating fish and chips) do actually like it, but I also always wish I could have like...half the serving size.

It's always so satisfying at the beginning and I always feel so sick at the end.
posted by andrewesque at 11:22 AM on February 21, 2020 [3 favorites]

What the hell did my ancestors eat before outsiders brought them stuff from around the world?
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 11:30 AM on February 21, 2020 [4 favorites]

I loooooove fish n chips!!!! I love that the portion size is generally regret-inducing! its not something I eat very often but YUM!!!!!!!!!!!
posted by supermedusa at 11:33 AM on February 21, 2020 [2 favorites]

its always fun to blow someones mind with the simple observation that there were NO TOMATOES in Italy, and NO POTATOES in Ireland before a few hundred years ago. Caesar never had spagbol kids...
posted by supermedusa at 11:35 AM on February 21, 2020 [10 favorites]

Obviously indigenous people of the Americas invented fried potatoes

And the denizens of the British Isles, who have been eating fish for thousand of years, obviously “invented” fried fish. But the style in question is deep fried fish, pan frying being the previous ususal local version; "fried fish in a manner similar to ‘Pescado frito’, which is coated in flour,” is the thing that is probably the import. If deep frying fish isn’t obvious, then neither is deep frying potatoes.

Similarly eating fish and potatoes together isn’t really much of an innovation (once you have the potato), but fish and chips as a specific style and combination seems to be a nineteenth century British thing, whatever the origin of the ingredients and cooking method.

Many foodstuffs and styles have distant and disparate origins, but still get assigned the status of local food (Swedish meatballs with possible Turkish origins for example). The phrase, “as American as apple pie,” comes to mind. We can point and laugh at the silly nativists who want to insist that their local specialty is uniquely part of their culture, ignoring and even denying the foreign influences, but that doesn’t stop it from being a local dish.
posted by Quinbus Flestrin at 11:37 AM on February 21, 2020 [19 favorites]

I love food history but i cannot for the life of me recall where the original citation for this was, but i was under the impression that the idea of deep frying came to europe and north america via the african slave trade - the Erin Nudi timeline linked above doesnt really dispute it - she jumps from east-asian perfection of deep frying to the portuguese spreading it around the world skipping straight over their "exploration" and conquests in africa. (this also ties in with the spanish-jewish connection, given the presence of the moors)

Im obviously spitballing here, but assuming that is true, and that deep fat frying originated in african and asia then it may be that there were no fried potatoes before the globalization of the past 500 years.
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 11:49 AM on February 21, 2020 [1 favorite]

Is it true that England has Long John Silvers' restaurants? I mean, why? For tourist?
posted by Beholder at 11:57 AM on February 21, 2020

Well, I'm going to get some fish and chips now. I don't care who invented it.

Have fun with your ... whatever you eat in Yankeeland. Grits? Have fun with your grits.
posted by Grangousier at 12:25 PM on February 21, 2020 [13 favorites]

Obviously indigenous people of the Americas invented fried potatoes

Generally, I believe they ate them baked or roasted. Frying is a bit trickier to do with the cooking vessels that were available to them. They might have been able to make some kind of confit potatoes though in a ceramic vessel.

As for what the denizens of British Isles ate prior to the potato perhaps this sheds some light - What the Irish Ate Before Potatoes.
posted by Ashwagandha at 1:07 PM on February 21, 2020 [7 favorites]

Is it true that England has Long John Silvers' restaurants? I mean, why? For tourist?

I've been to a few Long John Silvers restaurants in a few different states, and thus I feel that what I am about to say is universally true: Long John Silvers restaurants have not changed one bit since I was a child, more than 30 years ago. Not the look, not the booths, not the smell, nothing. They should qualify as quasi-living history museums.
posted by The_Vegetables at 1:11 PM on February 21, 2020 [3 favorites]

Fish and chips story:

I used to hang out with an excellent Turkish actress who loved London. She had a British boyfriend for a while, much older, who turned out to be a douche. But while they were together, he was determined to show her everything about British culture. So obviously he took her out for fish and chips. After careful consideration, he chose the Rock & Sole Plaice in Covent Garden as the absolute best place for an Englishman to show his innocent-abroad girlfriend the pinnacle of British cuisine...

... and they walk in, and the place is run by Turks. The staff recognise my friend off Turkish TV and treat her like royalty and bring her free food and drinks and take pictures with her, and the fish and chips are excellent, and her douchey boyfriend is all disgruntled and if there's a more London story I don't know what it is.
posted by Pallas Athena at 1:21 PM on February 21, 2020 [59 favorites]

Then in 1700 to 1800, the Pennsylvania Dutch (German immigrants) brought funnel cakes to America.

freshly made funnel cakes with confectioner sugar are amazing. of course i haven't had one in like 8 years so it may be mostly nostalgia.
posted by affectionateborg at 1:27 PM on February 21, 2020 [1 favorite]

"Fish and chips are the undisputed National dish of Great Britain,"

This is pretty disputed in fact. Various surveys have suggested Chinese, Indian and Fish & Chips as the favoured choice of Brits
posted by biffa at 1:39 PM on February 21, 2020 [1 favorite]

It's like Fat Les has been lying to me this entire time.
posted by 7segment at 1:49 PM on February 21, 2020 [1 favorite]

its always fun to blow someones mind with the simple observation that there were NO TOMATOES in Italy, and NO POTATOES in Ireland before a few hundred years ago. Caesar never had spagbol kids...

This always blows my mind, no matter how often I think of it. And even more so, no chillis in India, for God's sake. Mindbending.
posted by ominous_paws at 2:09 PM on February 21, 2020 [4 favorites]

Just digging into the links, so will just leave a few of my favourite chippy names here in the meantime:

Cod Almighty (Belfast)
Fishcotheque (London)
Oh My Cod (Hartlepool)
Rock and Sole Plaice (London)

Two I've eaten at, two I've discovered through Streetview tourism.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 2:22 PM on February 21, 2020 [2 favorites]

there were NO TOMATOES in Italy

And no spaghetti either.
posted by Cardinal Fang at 2:22 PM on February 21, 2020 [3 favorites]

What the hell did my ancestors eat before outsiders brought them stuff from around the world?
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot

There's an actual link above, but based on reading of probate inventories and other historical documents: bread, butter, cheese, sometimes bacon. Nettles when they were starving. And beer - lots of beer. (Not as much beer as bread, though).

And more vegetables than we realize, since they were all so cheap (grown in gardens, etc.) that they don't appear in historical documents the way that grains, dairy and meat do.
posted by jb at 2:23 PM on February 21, 2020 [1 favorite]

I like The Sign of the Fish in Lincoln - great name, great fish. They also did a curry & chips when I was there (c2005).
posted by jb at 2:25 PM on February 21, 2020 [2 favorites]

oh. my. god.

I had planned on a non-fried dinner tonight, but this will not be denied.
posted by mwhybark at 3:29 PM on February 21, 2020 [1 favorite]

And no spaghetti either.
I think there's evidence that they did have pasta. Maybe not exactly spaghetti, but many other forms. Marco Polo brought many things to Europe, but not pasta.
posted by mumimor at 4:21 PM on February 21, 2020 [4 favorites]

Slight sidetrack, but my favourite food "invention" is the sandwich, which of course had to be invented by an English toff because a peon could not have thought of putting filling between two slices of bread and eating it with their hands. That's something that would have never occurred to like, I don't know, the Earl of Sandwich's gardener, or his cook.

Regarding fish and chips: I grew up in Spain, eating fried fish and fired potatoes frequently, but it was not "Fish and Chips". The dish is to me uniquely British, from the beer batter to the way potatoes are cut and blanched, to the fats used for frying, to seasoning potatoes with malt vinegar, to the culture of the corner fry shop and the newspaper wrapper. Everything about this dish makes it a completely different beast than from what my grandmother would serve or I could eat in bars/restaurants growing up.
posted by kandinski at 5:45 PM on February 21, 2020 [3 favorites]

Caesar never had spagbol kids...

Just salad, right...?
posted by Segundus at 9:12 PM on February 21, 2020 [6 favorites]

And no chillies in Asia! Imagine Szechuan food, or Indian food, or Southeast Asian food without them!
posted by awfurby at 10:06 PM on February 21, 2020 [5 favorites]

Is it true that England has Long John Silvers' restaurants?
No.
posted by Segundus at 11:13 PM on February 21, 2020

As for what the denizens of British Isles ate prior to the potato perhaps this sheds some light - What the Irish Ate Before Potatoes.

Ireland isn't England and I cannot take an article on Irish cuisine seriously when the author is unfamiliar with the concept of buttermilk, a staple of Irish cuisine. Nor does he mention sheep, salmon, honey, wild nuts or a myriad of other traditional staples.
posted by fshgrl at 11:56 PM on February 21, 2020 [2 favorites]

"Fish and chips are the undisputed National dish of Great Britain,"

This is pretty disputed in fact. Various surveys have suggested Chinese, Indian and Fish & Chips as the favoured choice of Brits

And, you know, le rosbif.

My understanding (don’t know if it’s true) is that the reason the British didn’t eat anything like fish and chips historically was that the native cooking fats of northern Europe are butter and lard, which are not ideally suited to deep frying.
posted by Bloxworth Snout at 12:41 AM on February 22, 2020 [1 favorite]

The concept of "National Dish" is a bit vague - I think it's more about stereotypes and marketing than what people actually eat.

The UK's favourite food is British-Indian curry. But Japan's favourite food is curry too (Victorian English-style curry, not Indian curry), and I don't think people would describe curry as Japan's "national dish".

My local chip shop has a hip hop theme (it's The Hip Hop Chip Shop)
posted by BinaryApe at 1:33 AM on February 22, 2020 [3 favorites]

Nobody here has enthused about mushy peas yet. Proper mushy peas are wonderful.
posted by BinaryApe at 1:34 AM on February 22, 2020 [4 favorites]

I think there's evidence that they did have pasta.

They had something resembling lasagne. Nothing long, stringy or die-cut, though.
posted by Cardinal Fang at 2:09 AM on February 22, 2020

Atlas Obsucra's Gastro Obscura documents that history of Jews fleeing persecution in Spain

Um, these were Portuguese Jews as the article itself points out. Also, Portugal has never been ruled by Spain as the article proclaims.

There's definitely evidence that Portugal introduced "frying" to the world at large. Japanese tempura for example also can be traced to encounters with Portuguese ships. Today you can still get Peixinhos da Horta in Portugal.

Aside from fish and chips, Portugal (via Catherine of Braganza) also introduced the custom of tea drinking to Britain. This is well documented even by Samuel Pepys himself.

Of course, in the other direction, I am convinced that the famous Portuguese custard tarts are actually British. Portugal has no real custard tradition outside of this.
posted by vacapinta at 4:32 AM on February 22, 2020 [9 favorites]

What the hell did my ancestors eat before outsiders brought them stuff from around the world?
posted by The 10th Regiment of Foot at 11:30 AM on February 21 [1 favorite +] [!]

As you were wondering, our/your ancestors ate in this manner... here.
posted by IndelibleUnderpants at 5:00 AM on February 22, 2020

the place is run by Turks

Now you've gone and made me all nostalgic. Mrs. Example and I used to live in London just down the street from a great fish and chip place, and it was run by a group of Turks. (They may have been brothers or cousins or something, possibly--in any case, the same last name was on a lot of the food safety training certificates hanging up.)

I wasn't that much of a regular...I'd go in maybe once every couple of weeks, tops. Every time I would go in, though, they were all "Hello again, my friend! Large lamb shish, yeah? Salad, no peppers or onions?". I loved that place so much. They were all so friendly, and the food was good, and the service was fast...if they had a failing, it's that they only took cash. (Fortunately, there were two ATMs just down the street.)

Now we live Oop North, and our local place is down a hundred-foot-high hill and run by some of the surliest, most sullen Yorkshire people I've ever run into. It's right next to the pub that on football days only lets in local supporters and makes them drink out of plastic glasses in case fighting breaks out.

God, I really miss London sometimes.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 6:35 AM on February 22, 2020 [3 favorites]

British didn’t eat anything like fish and chips historically was that the native cooking fats of northern Europe are butter and lard

Fish & chips is traditionally cooked in beef dripping, so not really a big jump there from lard.
posted by biffa at 7:20 AM on February 22, 2020

Trivia: in Ireland fish and chips came via Italian immigrants and the Beshoffs. Beshoffs still have the crown for curry chips, I thing I miss something incredible.

But all the old ones in Dublin have Italian names and are often still run by the original families.
posted by lesbiassparrow at 8:02 AM on February 22, 2020

I'm making fish and chips right now.

I got batter on my phone.
posted by clavdivs at 11:08 AM on February 22, 2020 [1 favorite]

There are offhand references in the Talmud (e.g., Beitzah 2:1) to "fish with egg on top". It must have been a popular dish, because the references are geographically and chronologically separated

They did have fried food back then, and I like to imagine that it was something like the fried fish we eat today, but there's no actual recipe or anything else that would let us know whether they meant battered fish, fish with some sort of egg-based sauce, or a literal egg served on top of a piece of fish. None the less, it is what it is.
posted by Joe in Australia at 1:16 PM on February 22, 2020 [1 favorite]

vacapinta: Um, these were Portuguese Jews as the article itself points out. Also, Portugal has never been ruled by Spain as the article proclaims.

Thanks for the correction! And fascinating about Portuguese custard tarts.
posted by filthy light thief at 4:17 PM on February 22, 2020

I got batter on my phone.

You know, there are people who might pay handsomely for a phone case comprised entirely of beer batter.
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 4:17 PM on February 22, 2020

@mandolin conspiracy: I have been a frequent visitor to The Laughing Halibut in Westminster. Top nosh, even for vegans - with its very fine mushy peas
posted by Myeral at 5:23 AM on February 23, 2020

Yesterday someone told me about Sutton And Sons, who do a vegan battered "fish" out of banana blossom marinated in seaweed and samphire. He said it was good! I'm not vegan, but looking forward to trying this.
posted by Pallas Athena at 2:17 PM on February 23, 2020