Harvey Weinstein, Convicted Rapist
February 24, 2020 9:23 AM Subscribe
After a several weeks long trial and five days of deliberation, Harvey Weinstein has been found guilty of a criminal sex act in the first degree and rape in the third degree. (SLGuardian)
In addition to the charges he was convicted for, Weinstein was also acquitted on three other charges.
The criminal sex act in the first degree was for forcing oral sex on the former Project Runway production assistant Miriam Haley in 2006, while the charge of rape in the third degree is for his rape of an unnamed victim in 2013.
In addition to the charges he was convicted for, Weinstein was also acquitted on three other charges.
The criminal sex act in the first degree was for forcing oral sex on the former Project Runway production assistant Miriam Haley in 2006, while the charge of rape in the third degree is for his rape of an unnamed victim in 2013.
I am ... uh ... surprised.
I was going to say pleasantly surprised but that didn't seem right. Does German have a word for "this is obviously a correct outcome, but I really didn't think it would happen, so now I am surprised and not pleased, because pleased is the wrong word, because what would actually be pleasant is if this asshole hadn't raped all those women in the first place but instead all we're left with is a minimal act of long-denied justice for a paltry few of his victims"?
posted by jacquilynne at 9:30 AM on February 24, 2020 [80 favorites]
I was going to say pleasantly surprised but that didn't seem right. Does German have a word for "this is obviously a correct outcome, but I really didn't think it would happen, so now I am surprised and not pleased, because pleased is the wrong word, because what would actually be pleasant is if this asshole hadn't raped all those women in the first place but instead all we're left with is a minimal act of long-denied justice for a paltry few of his victims"?
posted by jacquilynne at 9:30 AM on February 24, 2020 [80 favorites]
Weinstein also faces criminal charges in California, where Lauren Young's alleged attack, unlike in New York, is still triable under state law. If convicted here, Weinstein could face as up to 28 years in state prison. So that's still coming down the pipeline too.
posted by Fizz at 9:33 AM on February 24, 2020 [47 favorites]
posted by Fizz at 9:33 AM on February 24, 2020 [47 favorites]
We'll see whether the maximum sentencing is applied. I won't hold my breath about anything related to these cases. It's such a clusterfuck of awful. I hope he rots in prison forever.
posted by Fizz at 9:34 AM on February 24, 2020 [11 favorites]
posted by Fizz at 9:34 AM on February 24, 2020 [11 favorites]
Read this headline and said "YES" out loud to myself. So little justice has been done in the past few weeks. It's heartening that at least one powerful man will be punished for his crimes.
posted by potrzebie at 9:35 AM on February 24, 2020 [9 favorites]
posted by potrzebie at 9:35 AM on February 24, 2020 [9 favorites]
He has also been remanded to custody to await sentencing on March 11. (another guardian link) This is of course unrelated to whether he will be freed pending appeal.
posted by hepta at 9:38 AM on February 24, 2020 [6 favorites]
posted by hepta at 9:38 AM on February 24, 2020 [6 favorites]
Glad to read this, yet I remain thoroughly disgusted. It's a little bit of progress that might help some people down the line. Too little, too late, but something.
I'm as Lefty as they come, and I am so disgusted by these stories that I've soured on movies and teevee and Hollywood in general. I know this stuff happens everywhere, but there's such a disgusting sheen on the entertainment business that it makes the contrast even more appalling. Movies and teevee are optional, this news makes enjoying them more distasteful.
posted by SoberHighland at 9:45 AM on February 24, 2020 [7 favorites]
I'm as Lefty as they come, and I am so disgusted by these stories that I've soured on movies and teevee and Hollywood in general. I know this stuff happens everywhere, but there's such a disgusting sheen on the entertainment business that it makes the contrast even more appalling. Movies and teevee are optional, this news makes enjoying them more distasteful.
posted by SoberHighland at 9:45 AM on February 24, 2020 [7 favorites]
So much for the smug smile permanently glued to his face.
posted by Beholder at 9:47 AM on February 24, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by Beholder at 9:47 AM on February 24, 2020 [3 favorites]
I'm surprised too. I wonder who is sitting on the jury. Like it seems almost impossible for the jurors to have no foreknowledge of this case / person / have personal experience with someone like him
Let's hope the sentencing nails it
posted by erattacorrige at 9:48 AM on February 24, 2020
Let's hope the sentencing nails it
posted by erattacorrige at 9:48 AM on February 24, 2020
As noted by the Guardian:
posted by katra at 9:51 AM on February 24, 2020 [27 favorites]
Though Judge James Burke cautioned the jury not to see the case as a referendum on #MeToo, Weinstein’s conviction is certain to have far-reaching consequences for gender relations in the workplace, in Hollywood and far beyond. The world of powerful men who deploy their seniority as tools of sexual control is much less secure in its wake.And thanks to some of the resources listed at the end of the article, additional construction is underway at the MeFi Wiki ThereIsHelp page, which includes lists of support resources for survivors of rape and sexual assault.
Michelle Simpson Tuegel, an attorney representing victims of sexual assault, said she expected to see a wave of women coming forward with complaints against other sexual abusers. “No matter how powerful a person is, no matter how much mud or dirt may be flung at those who have the courage to come forward, we are in a new time. The #MeToo era has thankfully started to unmask these systems of abuse of power, and now women can be heard and believed.”
posted by katra at 9:51 AM on February 24, 2020 [27 favorites]
👏👏👏
posted by Borborygmus at 9:51 AM on February 24, 2020
posted by Borborygmus at 9:51 AM on February 24, 2020
I am pleased. I don’t want to say I’m surprised because many people have argued for years that with an adequate effort, prosecutors could be successful in bringing these types of cases, in which the victim’s story is more complicated than “a stranger attacked me and I went to the police.” Over and over victims have heard no, that juries won’t believe them, that their stories are too complicated. And maybe some juries still won’t. This was a hugely high profile trial that drew more than usual resources. But it establishes a pattern prosecutors all over the country can use going forward. The saddest part to me is thinking, this will help so many women who haven’t yet been hurt, who will still be.
posted by sallybrown at 9:52 AM on February 24, 2020 [10 favorites]
posted by sallybrown at 9:52 AM on February 24, 2020 [10 favorites]
this is better than I was expecting I guess? I hope he rots in prison until he dies...
posted by supermedusa at 10:00 AM on February 24, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by supermedusa at 10:00 AM on February 24, 2020 [2 favorites]
Does German have a word for "this is obviously a correct outcome, but I really didn't think it would happen, so now I am surprised and not pleased, because pleased is the wrong word, ...
Schadenfreude?
posted by romanb at 10:01 AM on February 24, 2020
Schadenfreude?
posted by romanb at 10:01 AM on February 24, 2020
Not Schadenfreude as "freude" means joy
posted by acidnova at 10:02 AM on February 24, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by acidnova at 10:02 AM on February 24, 2020 [1 favorite]
I believe a lot of men have become slightly more afraid with this verdict. And that thought will keep me smiling all day.
posted by seanmpuckett at 10:03 AM on February 24, 2020 [46 favorites]
posted by seanmpuckett at 10:03 AM on February 24, 2020 [46 favorites]
Vindication. I was scared it would be like the Ghomeshi travesty all over again. May these rotters all be running scared. And may they find no shelter.
posted by bardophile at 10:05 AM on February 24, 2020 [14 favorites]
posted by bardophile at 10:05 AM on February 24, 2020 [14 favorites]
So pleased. Or maybe reassured? Anyway, yes, this is better than acquittal, if those are our only 2 options.
posted by suelac at 10:06 AM on February 24, 2020
posted by suelac at 10:06 AM on February 24, 2020
Ronan Farrow's podcast, which basically outlines his book and has lots of interviews, is really excellent if you want full background.
posted by ChuraChura at 10:07 AM on February 24, 2020 [16 favorites]
posted by ChuraChura at 10:07 AM on February 24, 2020 [16 favorites]
I'm going through the podcast now and listened to the audiobook last month (totally worth it for his voices). The NBC news division needs to be cleansed with pink slips.
posted by cmfletcher at 10:10 AM on February 24, 2020 [5 favorites]
posted by cmfletcher at 10:10 AM on February 24, 2020 [5 favorites]
So is he still using that walker or has it been abandoned like the neck brace in that episode of The Brady Bunch?
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 10:14 AM on February 24, 2020 [43 favorites]
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 10:14 AM on February 24, 2020 [43 favorites]
So is he still using that walker or has it been abandoned like the neck brace in that episode of The Brady Bunch?
From the AP story:
From the AP story:
Court officers surrounded Weinstein, handcuffed him and led him out of the courtroom via a side door without the use of the walker he relied on for much for much of the trial. The judge said he will request that Weinstein be held in the infirmary after his lawyers said he needs medical attention following unsuccessful back surgery.posted by Etrigan at 10:17 AM on February 24, 2020 [5 favorites]
So much for the smug smile permanently glued to his face.
I mean, he was acquitted on all of the most serious charges, so not really.
posted by The Bellman at 10:24 AM on February 24, 2020 [3 favorites]
I mean, he was acquitted on all of the most serious charges, so not really.
posted by The Bellman at 10:24 AM on February 24, 2020 [3 favorites]
What a relief.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 10:34 AM on February 24, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by The Underpants Monster at 10:34 AM on February 24, 2020 [1 favorite]
So much for the smug smile permanently glued to his face.
I mean, he was acquitted on all of the most serious charges, so not really.
The fact that he faces any actual consequence is going to shatter him.
posted by Etrigan at 10:37 AM on February 24, 2020 [24 favorites]
I mean, he was acquitted on all of the most serious charges, so not really.
The fact that he faces any actual consequence is going to shatter him.
posted by Etrigan at 10:37 AM on February 24, 2020 [24 favorites]
Well it's something so there's that.
posted by mazola at 10:50 AM on February 24, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by mazola at 10:50 AM on February 24, 2020 [1 favorite]
The women who came forward are probably just the visible part of the iceberg. I suspect after a vindicating conviction more and more details will come out.
posted by srboisvert at 11:00 AM on February 24, 2020 [6 favorites]
posted by srboisvert at 11:00 AM on February 24, 2020 [6 favorites]
This may signal an important change in the way prosecutors handle future cases:
Prosecutors chose as main accusers two women, both of whom continued to have close – and at times sexual – contact with Weinstein after they were attacked. In the past, prosecutors have almost always balked at such cases where coerced and consensual sex exists side-by-side, considering them too messy to secure guilty verdicts.
The fact that the tactic succeeded with the jury is a sign of the shifting sands of #MeToo. It suggests that prosecutors might have far more leeway in future to take on cases where victims continue to be in the thrall of their attackers after sexual assaults – a scenario which sex crimes experts say is all too common and yet up till now has been almost entirely neglected by the criminal courts.
As psychiatrist Barbara Ziv told the jury in expert testimony, “it is the norm to have contact with the assailant.”
posted by mediareport at 11:09 AM on February 24, 2020 [44 favorites]
Prosecutors chose as main accusers two women, both of whom continued to have close – and at times sexual – contact with Weinstein after they were attacked. In the past, prosecutors have almost always balked at such cases where coerced and consensual sex exists side-by-side, considering them too messy to secure guilty verdicts.
The fact that the tactic succeeded with the jury is a sign of the shifting sands of #MeToo. It suggests that prosecutors might have far more leeway in future to take on cases where victims continue to be in the thrall of their attackers after sexual assaults – a scenario which sex crimes experts say is all too common and yet up till now has been almost entirely neglected by the criminal courts.
As psychiatrist Barbara Ziv told the jury in expert testimony, “it is the norm to have contact with the assailant.”
posted by mediareport at 11:09 AM on February 24, 2020 [44 favorites]
*
To be honest, best to just let him rot in silence and alone.
posted by ZeusHumms at 11:11 AM on February 24, 2020
Better late and minimal than never and nothing.
posted by gottabefunky at 11:14 AM on February 24, 2020 [7 favorites]
posted by gottabefunky at 11:14 AM on February 24, 2020 [7 favorites]
Wonder how long his "health" will hold up with this conviction.
posted by Kitchen Witch at 11:18 AM on February 24, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by Kitchen Witch at 11:18 AM on February 24, 2020 [3 favorites]
Sadly, I expect his lawyers to vigorously fight this ruling, and keep on doing so (until he runs out of money, after which they might join the rest of us in saying 'fuck that guy; enjoy jail, asshole')
posted by caution live frogs at 12:00 PM on February 24, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by caution live frogs at 12:00 PM on February 24, 2020 [3 favorites]
That's what lawyers are for. It would be weird if he didn't appeal, no?
posted by tiny frying pan at 12:10 PM on February 24, 2020 [5 favorites]
posted by tiny frying pan at 12:10 PM on February 24, 2020 [5 favorites]
⛓️⛓️🐷⛓️⛓️
posted by clavdivs at 12:57 PM on February 24, 2020 [8 favorites]
posted by clavdivs at 12:57 PM on February 24, 2020 [8 favorites]
Donna Rotunno, said her client would appeal. “He took it like a man.
Oh. Christ.
posted by Everyone Expects The Spanish Influenza at 1:09 PM on February 24, 2020 [16 favorites]
Oh. Christ.
posted by Everyone Expects The Spanish Influenza at 1:09 PM on February 24, 2020 [16 favorites]
One of the convictions was for raping a woman with whom he had a 5 year relationship, who continued to date him and write him thank you notes following the rape, who separately wrote "I love you, I always do," whose testimony included chronological inaccuracies, who testified that "I was lying" when she once said she "did not allow Harvey Weinstein to cross boundaries," and who dated other men during her relationship with Weinstein.
I can remember a time way back in the past - say, 2019 - when police or prosecutors or jurors might have dismissed this kind of case based on just one of those irrelevant issues. No more, thank goodness. There's been huge progress in understanding the context of sexual abuse and violence.
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 1:14 PM on February 24, 2020 [19 favorites]
I can remember a time way back in the past - say, 2019 - when police or prosecutors or jurors might have dismissed this kind of case based on just one of those irrelevant issues. No more, thank goodness. There's been huge progress in understanding the context of sexual abuse and violence.
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 1:14 PM on February 24, 2020 [19 favorites]
20 years ago, Harvey told me when a woman says the sex wasn’t consensual, “Sometimes you have to write a check.“ Turns out sometimes you have to go to prison. - @kimmasters
posted by ODiV at 1:17 PM on February 24, 2020 [15 favorites]
posted by ODiV at 1:17 PM on February 24, 2020 [15 favorites]
OK now do the president.
posted by aspersioncast at 1:23 PM on February 24, 2020 [80 favorites]
posted by aspersioncast at 1:23 PM on February 24, 2020 [80 favorites]
It’s so rare, and unexpected to wake up to news that isn’t horrific. This isn’t, in itself, good news, but it is news of justice still being in the world, and damn if it didn’t put a smile on my face.
Of course, that smile faded when I thought about how long Weinstein got away with what was supposedly common knowledge. Maybe things will continue to get better, and men like him will be held accountable more often going forward, but I’m not holding my breath. Still, one down, and with any luck, California will throw the whole book at him.
posted by Ghidorah at 1:50 PM on February 24, 2020 [2 favorites]
Of course, that smile faded when I thought about how long Weinstein got away with what was supposedly common knowledge. Maybe things will continue to get better, and men like him will be held accountable more often going forward, but I’m not holding my breath. Still, one down, and with any luck, California will throw the whole book at him.
posted by Ghidorah at 1:50 PM on February 24, 2020 [2 favorites]
He obviously will be on the top of the list of the alleged president's next pardons. Sigh.
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:54 PM on February 24, 2020
posted by oneswellfoop at 1:54 PM on February 24, 2020
He obviously will be on the top of the list of the alleged president's next pardons. Sigh.
These were state charges. And Andrew Cuomo knows that pardoning him would be cutting his political throat.
posted by NoxAeternum at 1:58 PM on February 24, 2020 [9 favorites]
These were state charges. And Andrew Cuomo knows that pardoning him would be cutting his political throat.
posted by NoxAeternum at 1:58 PM on February 24, 2020 [9 favorites]
His sentencing is scheduled for the week before his birthday. I’ll admit I’d find it a smidgeon more satisfying if the first day of his sentence ended up being his birthday (but to be clear I’d be ok if it’s earlier too...)
posted by inflatablekiwi at 2:50 PM on February 24, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by inflatablekiwi at 2:50 PM on February 24, 2020 [4 favorites]
I would have liked to see him go down for all of the charges, but I'll take at least a couple of guilty verdicts after the decades of complicity. I do wish that there could be consequences for the people who enabled and protected him for so long.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:39 PM on February 24, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by Dip Flash at 6:39 PM on February 24, 2020 [4 favorites]
That's what lawyers are for. It would be weird if he didn't appeal, no?
Oh I know.... but just once, I’d love for the lawyers to look at the client and say “fuck it, I quit - you deserve your punishment.” Because they KNOW he’s a piece of shit, and have to pretend he’s a saint. It’s not a job I could do, and I can’t help but think it weighs on them. More collateral damage from a horrible person.
posted by caution live frogs at 7:16 PM on February 24, 2020
Oh I know.... but just once, I’d love for the lawyers to look at the client and say “fuck it, I quit - you deserve your punishment.” Because they KNOW he’s a piece of shit, and have to pretend he’s a saint. It’s not a job I could do, and I can’t help but think it weighs on them. More collateral damage from a horrible person.
posted by caution live frogs at 7:16 PM on February 24, 2020
I am unashamed to say I am very pleased. Not pleased by what led to it, not as pleased as I would be if he'd been convicted of all the charges, but pleased nonetheless. Couldn't have happened to a better person (probably wouldn't have happened to a better person).
posted by lhauser at 7:24 PM on February 24, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by lhauser at 7:24 PM on February 24, 2020 [1 favorite]
Not german, but if crappy latin works, Amarsolacius (or amarsolaciuris?) would be something like "the bitter solace of the law".
Which is what this is. Nothing can undo the harm he's caused; the venom of such vile crimes can't be drawn by any process of jurisprudence. But I have some small hope that this gives those he harmed and those harmed by others like him a little solace.
posted by gryftir at 7:29 PM on February 24, 2020 [13 favorites]
Which is what this is. Nothing can undo the harm he's caused; the venom of such vile crimes can't be drawn by any process of jurisprudence. But I have some small hope that this gives those he harmed and those harmed by others like him a little solace.
posted by gryftir at 7:29 PM on February 24, 2020 [13 favorites]
MetaFilter: The Bitter Solace Of The Law.
posted by rum-soaked space hobo at 4:14 AM on February 25, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by rum-soaked space hobo at 4:14 AM on February 25, 2020 [4 favorites]
Chest pains?
Oh, boy! Goody.
Maybe he'll die and save the state some money.
More likely it was wallet pain and a slight case of ego deflation.
posted by BlueHorse at 7:57 AM on February 25, 2020 [1 favorite]
Oh, boy! Goody.
Maybe he'll die and save the state some money.
More likely it was wallet pain and a slight case of ego deflation.
posted by BlueHorse at 7:57 AM on February 25, 2020 [1 favorite]
President Trump said Tuesday that Harvey Weinstein’s guilty verdicts send “a very strong message.”
What?
“He said he was going to work hard to defeat me in the election.”
Oh.
posted by JackFlash at 7:57 AM on February 25, 2020
What?
“He said he was going to work hard to defeat me in the election.”
Oh.
posted by JackFlash at 7:57 AM on February 25, 2020
That's what lawyers are for. It would be weird if he didn't appeal, no?
Oh I know.... but just once, I’d love for the lawyers to look at the client and say “fuck it, I quit - you deserve your punishment.”
That goes against every ethical molecule in a good lawyer's body.
posted by tiny frying pan at 10:58 AM on February 25, 2020 [1 favorite]
Oh I know.... but just once, I’d love for the lawyers to look at the client and say “fuck it, I quit - you deserve your punishment.”
That goes against every ethical molecule in a good lawyer's body.
posted by tiny frying pan at 10:58 AM on February 25, 2020 [1 favorite]
That goes against every ethical molecule in a good lawyer's body.
There are no ethics that require a "good lawyer" to choose to devote his limited time out hundreds of possible cases to defend a multi-millionaire who can have his pick of hundreds of unethical lawyers.
posted by JackFlash at 11:15 AM on February 25, 2020 [4 favorites]
There are no ethics that require a "good lawyer" to choose to devote his limited time out hundreds of possible cases to defend a multi-millionaire who can have his pick of hundreds of unethical lawyers.
posted by JackFlash at 11:15 AM on February 25, 2020 [4 favorites]
There could be, assuming you believe in the cab rank rule. Not every country adopts it but many lawyers believe it to be ethical behaviour to follow it regardless, especially in the criminal bar. I don't know how it is viewed in the US, though.
posted by jacquilynne at 11:45 AM on February 25, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by jacquilynne at 11:45 AM on February 25, 2020 [1 favorite]
There could be, assuming you believe in the cab rank rule.
Nah, in the U.S. they go by the rule that everyone is entitled to only as much justice as they can afford.
posted by JackFlash at 3:40 PM on February 25, 2020 [1 favorite]
Nah, in the U.S. they go by the rule that everyone is entitled to only as much justice as they can afford.
posted by JackFlash at 3:40 PM on February 25, 2020 [1 favorite]
The ideal situation is that he rots in jail while his lawyers draw his accounts down to zero.
I realise this means public costs on the other side, but I can deal with that.
posted by sjswitzer at 4:07 PM on February 25, 2020 [1 favorite]
I realise this means public costs on the other side, but I can deal with that.
posted by sjswitzer at 4:07 PM on February 25, 2020 [1 favorite]
More likely it was wallet pain and a slight case of ego deflation.
It was probably a panic attack at the realization he will be powerless like his victims once were.
posted by srboisvert at 4:40 PM on February 26, 2020 [3 favorites]
It was probably a panic attack at the realization he will be powerless like his victims once were.
posted by srboisvert at 4:40 PM on February 26, 2020 [3 favorites]
Convicted Rapist Harvey Weinstein Hired a 'Prison Consultant' to Help Make Life in Prison Easier (Rebecca Fishbein, Jezebel)
posted by ZeusHumms at 9:57 AM on February 27, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by ZeusHumms at 9:57 AM on February 27, 2020 [2 favorites]
Oh, for fucking fuck's fucking sake.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 9:30 PM on February 27, 2020
posted by The Underpants Monster at 9:30 PM on February 27, 2020
In "definition of chutzpah" news, Weinstein's team argues for a five year sentence.
posted by NoxAeternum at 7:58 AM on March 10, 2020
posted by NoxAeternum at 7:58 AM on March 10, 2020
Even if the ailing 67-year-old defendant is given a lesser term, "the grave reality is that Mr. Weinstein may not even outlive that term" making it "a de facto life sentence," the papers say.Ya, well if you'd come forward in 1978 it a) wouldn't have been a "life sentence" and B) a lot of people would have avoided a lot of pain.
posted by Mitheral at 8:16 AM on March 10, 2020 [1 favorite]
Weinstein has been sentenced to 23 years.
posted by NoxAeternum at 8:16 AM on March 11, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by NoxAeternum at 8:16 AM on March 11, 2020 [1 favorite]
Just saw Mira Sorvino's tweet. About bloody time that she got some justice.
posted by bardophile at 8:50 AM on March 11, 2020
posted by bardophile at 8:50 AM on March 11, 2020
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