Ma Yu Ching's Bucket Chicken House (est. 1153)
February 27, 2020 8:37 AM   Subscribe

 
I wish they had clickable descriptions of what the businesses are.
posted by The_Vegetables at 8:45 AM on February 27, 2020 [5 favorites]


Nicely done! And not in some Web 2.0 bullshit way, might I add.
posted by SoberHighland at 9:03 AM on February 27, 2020 [2 favorites]


I'm curious which of these I could actually buy something from. Adding a Marinelli bell to my Christmas list.
posted by rossmeissl at 9:03 AM on February 27, 2020


Top 10 oldest companies in the world that are still open for business

This is wrong and very misleading. If anything this is the Oldest Companies in the World that are also the Oldest in their particular Modern Country.

For example the Genda Shigyo paper company dates from 771 so that would already make it second on that list. But there's already a Japan entry so...its not?

I mean I appreciate all the work that went into this and the nice graphics but this again shows the problem with using modern political boundaries for this. If there was a California company that was old but was founded before CA became part of the US would it be the oldest company in the US? Similar difficulties exist around the world.
posted by vacapinta at 9:05 AM on February 27, 2020 [16 favorites]


If there was a California company that was old but was founded before CA became part of the US would it be the oldest company in the US?

Given that the cited oldest company in the US predates the US by somewhere between 138 and 149 years, I'd say that yes, that other company would be the oldest company in the US.
posted by Etrigan at 9:23 AM on February 27, 2020 [4 favorites]


I cannot wait to really pore over this later when I have time. Very cool!
posted by narancia at 9:26 AM on February 27, 2020 [1 favorite]


> vacapinta: If there was a California company that was old but was founded before CA became part of the US would it be the oldest company in the US? Similar difficulties exist around the world.

Well, the Virginia company listed for the US was founded before Virginia was part of the US, so the question is just whether or not their research would pick that California company up.

The Japanese company listed as the oldest brings other complicated questions around corporate mergers and acquisitions. Bank of America, for example, used to consider its founding in 1904, with the Bank of Italy in San Francisco, but they they purchased FleetBoston, which had purchased BayBank, which had purchased Bank of Boston, which had merged with The Massachusetts Bank which was chartered in 1784. However, it could be argued that the real parent corporation of the current BofA was NationsBank, which can trace its beginnings to Commercial National Bank in 1874. Capitalism is fun!
posted by Rock Steady at 9:26 AM on February 27, 2020 [1 favorite]


If there was a California company that was old but was founded before CA became part of the US would it be the oldest company in the US?

Well, the US entry is a plantation in Virginia that predates the formation of the United States, so I'd imagine it would count.

Though in the case of Shirley Plantation, I think there's some argument about whether it's still "in business" or not. It exists as a privately-owned museum; there's no economically-significant agriculture going on. So it's not like the Hudson Bay Company or Mount Gay Rum, which are still (sorta-kinda) still doing what they were set up to do.
posted by Kadin2048 at 9:26 AM on February 27, 2020


oh the hudson's bay company is ABSOLUTELY spreading the gospel of white colonialism in canada to this day
posted by seanmpuckett at 9:28 AM on February 27, 2020 [7 favorites]


I really like this but also it bugs the hell out of me that Alaska is yellow for some reason.
posted by Navelgazer at 9:29 AM on February 27, 2020 [2 favorites]


Now I really want to go to Sean's Bar. Has anyone on metafilter been there? What's it like?
posted by valkane at 9:30 AM on February 27, 2020 [5 favorites]


Hmmm a earlier version map was circulating on r/mapporn last month. This does seem to correct a lot of problems in the original map. Most of this is taken from Wikipedia so not surprising that increased attention.
posted by midmarch snowman at 9:30 AM on February 27, 2020


Also French Guiana is grey. So there's not even consistency with how they handle exclaves.
posted by Navelgazer at 9:34 AM on February 27, 2020 [1 favorite]


Hmm. Some of these companies clearly predate the countries they're in – they say the oldest company in Finland dates from 1649, for example. That's fine.

But the oldest company in Kosovo supposedly dates from 1999, which is when the present-day state of Kosovo came into being. Are there really no companies in Kosovo that predate 1999? Like, um, KFC?
posted by oulipian at 9:34 AM on February 27, 2020 [2 favorites]


Kosovo's oldest company dates from 1999, supposedly? My wallet is older than that. Granted it's a pretty hardy wallet.
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:35 AM on February 27, 2020


But of course the oldest company in the US is a plantation.

Wouldn’t the Roman Catholic church count for Italy?
posted by Thorzdad at 9:37 AM on February 27, 2020 [3 favorites]


Also, does the Roman Catholic Church (or the various Orthodox Churches, for that matter) count as a company? It's certainly a rather ancient organized corporation...
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:38 AM on February 27, 2020


ahh stop stealing my comments, people
posted by tivalasvegas at 9:38 AM on February 27, 2020 [5 favorites]


The edge case I’m curious about is Zildjian, which started in 1623 in Turkey but has since moved to Massachusetts. Can it count for America instead of the plantation? What if we don’t count the Turkish Baths, (Which for tax purposes are not considered businesses through much of their history) then does Zildjian count for Turkey?
posted by midmarch snowman at 9:44 AM on February 27, 2020 [2 favorites]


The methodological details are way too sketchy for me to have confidence in this map. For example, what counts as a company (or business since both words are used in the article)? This definition matters e.g., it's commonly taught that Harvard University was founded in 1636 and is the oldest corporation in the western hemisphere but it appears that universities are excluded from this map.
posted by ElKevbo at 9:49 AM on February 27, 2020 [2 favorites]


Harvard was founded in 1636, and it's basically a hedge fund with a university on the side...
posted by madcaptenor at 9:52 AM on February 27, 2020 [9 favorites]


It's pretty trivial to find business in Kosovo that clearly predate 1999. FC Prishtina was founded in 1922. Here's a restaurant that's been around for at least 50 years. The National Theater of Kosovo dates to 1946.

It's a difficult question to answer, but if your methodology gives you something so obviously ridiculous as Malala Yousafzai being older than every single business in a given country, you should probably change your methodology.
posted by Copronymus at 10:00 AM on February 27, 2020 [7 favorites]


The "Oldest Companies in Europe" entry in the text has

Peter Stifts Kulinarium opened in 803 and remains the oldest restaurant in Europe that you can still eat in.

...while the "Oldest Companies in Asia" has

Ma Yu Ching’s Bucket Chicken House opened in Kaifeng, China, in 1153AD – and today it is thought to be the oldest ‘restaurant’ in the world

so...? Cool concept anyway, I hope they keep working out the kinks.
posted by smokysunday at 10:01 AM on February 27, 2020


I'm curious which of these I could actually buy something from.

The Casa de Ganaderos for Spain has a website and they are marketing the Ternasco de Aragón (Aragonese lamb meat) protected denomination so you can buy lamb chops from them.
posted by sukeban at 10:02 AM on February 27, 2020


Sadly, Kongo Gumi went out of business in 2006, so the prize for oldest business in Japan (and the world) does indeed go to Genda Shigyo.
posted by ananci at 10:04 AM on February 27, 2020


I've been to St Peters stift! It's in Salzburg and it's quite nice and relatively affordable. I really like the open patio with the medieval vaults.
posted by sukeban at 10:05 AM on February 27, 2020 [2 favorites]


Aw, I've been to Cemberlitas Hamami! It is pure luxury, and I loved every second I was there. No other bath has matched up since.

(Also they give you a pair of knickers to wear in the baths and I still have mine, they are very soft and comfy.)
posted by kalimac at 10:14 AM on February 27, 2020 [3 favorites]


Now I really want to go to Sean's Bar. Has anyone on metafilter been there? What's it like?
posted by valkane

Sean's Bar is, sadly, a dump. At least, it was when I was there 4 years ago. The pic in Google maps is pretty accurate.
posted by Grither at 10:14 AM on February 27, 2020 [2 favorites]


I'm curious which of these I could actually buy something from. Adding a Marinelli bell to my Christmas list.

The Hudson's Bay Company (Canada) is now a chain of retail stores. Fiskars (Finland) makes tools.

More deliciously:
- The House of Angostura (Trinidad and Tobago) makes Angostura bitters.
- Flor de Caña (Nicaragua) makes rum, as does Mount Gay Rum (Barbados) and Rum Barbancourt (Haiti).
posted by madcaptenor at 10:32 AM on February 27, 2020 [2 favorites]


Interesting. The decision to include national mints and nationally owned military manufacturers but not universities is kind of surprising. (Is a mint actually the same mint after multiple revolutions?) A different choice would change the Americas quite a bit.
posted by eotvos at 10:40 AM on February 27, 2020 [3 favorites]


Seconding the recommendation for St.-Peters-Stift. It's a fascinating space, an elegant dining experience, excellent food, and really very reasonably priced for the quality and cachet.
posted by jackbishop at 10:47 AM on February 27, 2020


The problem with these things really is establishing continuity. In most cases, no records exist showing continuous operation, and of course most of these places have changes of ownership, name and location along the way. It's the old Lincoln's axe conundrum. ("The handle has been replaced twice, and the head once. But it was Lincoln's axe.")

Also, if you are going to throw in national mints and such, then the oldest business in the world is the Roman Catholic Church, founded sometime in the 1st century. Or maybe the Japanese royal house, even older (and like the UK's, definitely a business).
posted by beagle at 10:50 AM on February 27, 2020 [1 favorite]


The decision to include national mints and nationally owned military manufacturers but not universities is kind of surprising.[...] A different choice would change the Americas quite a bit.

I assume so. Peru would change from the Casa de la Moneda to the Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos in Lima (founded in 1551)
posted by sukeban at 10:51 AM on February 27, 2020 [1 favorite]


For USians: The oldest business in every state.
posted by beagle at 10:56 AM on February 27, 2020 [3 favorites]


Peru would change from the Casa de la Moneda to the Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos in Lima (founded in 1551)

And Portugal would go back to 1290, the founding of the University of Coimbra
posted by vacapinta at 10:58 AM on February 27, 2020 [2 favorites]


Depending on your definition of university, Africa would look very different too.
posted by sukeban at 11:02 AM on February 27, 2020 [2 favorites]


i like how Wales is carved out as a separate country but not considered important enough to bother even with some quick Google research.
posted by vacapinta at 11:06 AM on February 27, 2020 [2 favorites]


You can buy Bochnia salt too - the iodine and bromine additions are therapeutic, making for good baths if you're suffering from arthritis or muscle problems, as well as good steam inhalations for sinus trouble. It's Poland's oldest spa treatment.

(And Fiskars makes very comfortable kitchen knives. The tomato one especially is magic.)
posted by I claim sanctuary at 11:24 AM on February 27, 2020


It's the old Lincoln's axe conundrum. ("The handle has been replaced twice, and the head once. But it was Lincoln's axe.")

Also known as the Ship of Theseus, but some parts of the metaphor have been replaced over time.
posted by XMLicious at 12:08 PM on February 27, 2020 [22 favorites]


Cash4Lead, fantastic post!

The fact that it has engendered such impassioned debate and discussion in comments, which have been highly educational in their own right, makes it all the more interesting. Thanks so much for sharing.
posted by sugar and confetti at 12:10 PM on February 27, 2020 [4 favorites]


I like that the first Dutch brand is called Brand. (Still on regular rotation in my fridge.) Sort of 14th century meta level branding.
posted by ouke at 1:09 PM on February 27, 2020 [2 favorites]


They've got South Africa wrong. I walk past Sturk's Tobacconist every day for lunch and they've been open since 1793, granted it has had a few different owners.
posted by PenDevil at 1:39 PM on February 27, 2020


What would it take to keep a business going in Poland for the last 772 years of its history?
posted by biffa at 2:16 PM on February 27, 2020 [2 favorites]


I did almost rent a flat from an organisation that started in 1174 last autumn, but it fell through. And anyway, they'd only owned the property I put a holding deposit on since the 1400s.
posted by ambrosen at 3:49 PM on February 27, 2020


What would it take to keep a business going in Poland for the last 772 years of its history?

Mother Courage?
posted by clew at 5:54 PM on February 27, 2020


What would it take to keep a business going in Poland for the last 772 years of its history?

Tradition!
posted by Etrigan at 6:11 PM on February 27, 2020 [3 favorites]


I find it improbable that the oldest company in Morocco only dates back to 1904, considering Al-Karaouine has been operating as a place of higher learning since 859. Did the French manage to shut down every family business in Fez somehow?
posted by N-stoff at 9:57 PM on February 27, 2020 [1 favorite]


What would it take to keep a business going in Poland for the last 772 years of its history?

Have you ever met a Polish miner? There's a reason each and every government is scared to death of them. (The Russian miners in Chernobyl were a good depiction of the general breed.)

And just googling that, turns out the map makers got their salt mines confused - Wieliczka is the oldest going concern in Poland and firmly modern. A lot of the others from the oldest-company list have a mixed provenance (Silesia, Pomerania... don't get me started), but our post office just celebrated 450 years.
posted by I claim sanctuary at 10:31 PM on February 27, 2020 [2 favorites]


i like how Wales is carved out as a separate country but not considered important enough to bother even with some quick Google research.
Especially as the oldest company in England is actually in Wales.
posted by fullerine at 10:55 PM on February 27, 2020 [3 favorites]


article meetings were mainly for hammering out the colour schemes
posted by Iris Gambol at 11:04 PM on February 27, 2020


The one for Belgium, the "Affligem brewery," is also pretty bullshitty. While the Affligem Abbey dates from around that era-ish, and for much of its history occasionally sold beer, the business that is actually a brewery (the De Smedt brewery) was founded in 1790 and only started making beer for the Affligem monks in 1970. Before that point, those monks hadn't been concerned with beer since before the abbey was dissolved for half a century by Napoleon.
posted by Blasdelb at 3:10 AM on February 28, 2020


Bank of Scotland (1695) seems like an odd choice for Scotland - there are Edinburgh pubs that have been open longer than that, and the moving vans of the Aberdeen Shore Porters' Society, founded in 1498, are a common sight around the northeast.
posted by offog at 3:34 AM on February 28, 2020 [1 favorite]


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