Can You Really Hire a Hit Man on the Dark Web?
March 5, 2020 7:24 AM Subscribe
A collection of online stores offer murder for pay. Researchers say they are scams, but people who want someone dead aren’t listening. (SLNYT)
"The 18th Street Mafia did not respond to requests for comment."
"The 18th Street Mafia did not respond to requests for comment."
Yeah, online drug markets take sort of a backseat to people soliciting murder, at least in my mind.
posted by Ghidorah at 7:47 AM on March 5, 2020 [13 favorites]
posted by Ghidorah at 7:47 AM on March 5, 2020 [13 favorites]
Old Wired article on this too!
People did die. But I mean if you're going out looking for an online hitman... maybe you'll just do it yourself eventually. Fascinating stuff.
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 7:52 AM on March 5, 2020
People did die. But I mean if you're going out looking for an online hitman... maybe you'll just do it yourself eventually. Fascinating stuff.
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 7:52 AM on March 5, 2020
"Honey Pot Solutions?"
"Yeah, uh... we use bears."
"Cooooooool."
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 7:53 AM on March 5, 2020 [24 favorites]
"Yeah, uh... we use bears."
"Cooooooool."
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 7:53 AM on March 5, 2020 [24 favorites]
Mmhmm. Although in cases where people are fraudulently accepting money for a crime they don't intend to commit, I assume there's criminal liability on both sides?
posted by aspersioncast at 7:54 AM on March 5, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by aspersioncast at 7:54 AM on March 5, 2020 [1 favorite]
Recent Harper's cover story on this.
posted by HumanComplex at 8:09 AM on March 5, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by HumanComplex at 8:09 AM on March 5, 2020 [3 favorites]
Send me $5000, and I will guarantee the death of anyone you care to name at some point within the next 100 years.
posted by Faint of Butt at 8:13 AM on March 5, 2020 [15 favorites]
posted by Faint of Butt at 8:13 AM on March 5, 2020 [15 favorites]
I've never been able to figure out how any of the dark web is legitimate, not just murders. You give someone bitcoin and expect drugs or stolen electronics or fake watches in return. What motivation do they have to deliver the goods to you? They're just a username on the internet, and they have your money.
posted by Melismata at 8:20 AM on March 5, 2020 [8 favorites]
posted by Melismata at 8:20 AM on March 5, 2020 [8 favorites]
The Harper's article really freaked me out. My initial reaction to hearing that people were being ripped off by fake hitmen on the dark web is good. But our idea of "responsible monitoring" of the situation means that if you've been targeted by someone, police will let you know about the hit and you'll never get another update! You get to just go through your daily life with the knowledge that someone has paid thousands of dollars to have you killed, and they may or may not have been scammed out of the money. This is literally nightmare fuel, and police barely did anything about it.
posted by grandiloquiet at 8:21 AM on March 5, 2020 [12 favorites]
posted by grandiloquiet at 8:21 AM on March 5, 2020 [12 favorites]
What motivation do they have to deliver the goods to you? They're just a username on the internet, and they have your money.
A lot of it is entirely fake, and people buying goods on the dark web know this and factor it into their decisions, but the places that are actually selling those goods will build up repeat customers and word-of-mouth recommendations.
posted by Etrigan at 8:29 AM on March 5, 2020 [2 favorites]
A lot of it is entirely fake, and people buying goods on the dark web know this and factor it into their decisions, but the places that are actually selling those goods will build up repeat customers and word-of-mouth recommendations.
posted by Etrigan at 8:29 AM on March 5, 2020 [2 favorites]
I've never been able to figure out how any of the dark web is legitimate, not just murders. You give someone bitcoin and expect drugs or stolen electronics or fake watches in return. What motivation do they have to deliver the goods to you? They're just a username on the internet, and they have your money.
For drugs, you could make some money by ripping people off, but you can make a lot more money by operating through a marketplace (e.g. Silk Road as was), actually delivering the goods and - this is key - getting the customer to leave a review, written or star rated or what have you. As you note, the whole thing relies on trust. If you have great reviews from thousands of happy customers, others are more likely to use you, some portion of them will leave a review, and so on. It's free advertising!
posted by inire at 8:29 AM on March 5, 2020 [2 favorites]
For drugs, you could make some money by ripping people off, but you can make a lot more money by operating through a marketplace (e.g. Silk Road as was), actually delivering the goods and - this is key - getting the customer to leave a review, written or star rated or what have you. As you note, the whole thing relies on trust. If you have great reviews from thousands of happy customers, others are more likely to use you, some portion of them will leave a review, and so on. It's free advertising!
posted by inire at 8:29 AM on March 5, 2020 [2 favorites]
This was a Rockford Files episode! Angel was advertising in the back of a Soldier of Fortune magazine under the title "Let Mr. Bones settle your bones" and walking off with the money. As he told Jim gleefully, "What are they gonna fo? Call the cops?"
posted by Mogur at 8:36 AM on March 5, 2020 [18 favorites]
posted by Mogur at 8:36 AM on March 5, 2020 [18 favorites]
Season 5, episode 19. A classic.
posted by Mogur at 8:44 AM on March 5, 2020 [6 favorites]
posted by Mogur at 8:44 AM on March 5, 2020 [6 favorites]
How was your "problem" "resolved" by Tim today ?
☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆
Give a compliment
Add a tip for Tim
$1 $2 $3
posted by bonehead at 8:45 AM on March 5, 2020 [18 favorites]
☆ ☆ ☆ ☆ ☆
Give a compliment
Add a tip for Tim
$1 $2 $3
posted by bonehead at 8:45 AM on March 5, 2020 [18 favorites]
Yes it's reputation based, there were also escrow services built into marketplaces where money wouldn't be released until buyer and seller agreed. And yet some sellers did run long cons where they built up a legitimate reputation so that buyers would be comfortable bypassing escrow, then they'd run up a bunch of orders and not deliver and walk away with a bunch of money.
posted by muddgirl at 8:46 AM on March 5, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by muddgirl at 8:46 AM on March 5, 2020 [2 favorites]
Hey NYTimes, after you hire a hit man on the dark web, pop on over to the light web, where there is free advice on how to dispose of the body.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 8:55 AM on March 5, 2020 [13 favorites]
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 8:55 AM on March 5, 2020 [13 favorites]
at some point within the next 100 years.
Faint of Butt is the Bond Villain of the Long Now.
posted by mhoye at 9:39 AM on March 5, 2020 [2 favorites]
Faint of Butt is the Bond Villain of the Long Now.
posted by mhoye at 9:39 AM on March 5, 2020 [2 favorites]
If you’re too squeamish to pay to have someone killed, they offer “scares” for the bargain price of $1,000.
posted by dr_dank at 9:41 AM on March 5, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by dr_dank at 9:41 AM on March 5, 2020 [1 favorite]
Yes it's reputation based, there were also escrow services built into marketplaces where money wouldn't be released until buyer and seller agreed. And yet some sellers did run long cons where they built up a legitimate reputation so that buyers would be comfortable bypassing escrow, then they'd run up a bunch of orders and not deliver and walk away with a bunch of money.
Then it seems like the obvious thing to do is start an escrow service, build up a rep, then walk away with a bunch of money.
posted by star gentle uterus at 10:08 AM on March 5, 2020 [6 favorites]
Then it seems like the obvious thing to do is start an escrow service, build up a rep, then walk away with a bunch of money.
posted by star gentle uterus at 10:08 AM on March 5, 2020 [6 favorites]
I just wanted to get my house painted!
posted by banshee at 10:15 AM on March 5, 2020 [9 favorites]
posted by banshee at 10:15 AM on March 5, 2020 [9 favorites]
This was a Rockford Files episode! Angel was advertising in the back of a Soldier of Fortune magazine under the title "Let Mr. Bones settle your bones" and walking off with the money. As he told Jim gleefully, "What are they gonna fo? Call the cops?"
Definitely the sort of thing Angel would do. And then his old buddy Jim would have to get him out of the trouble that resulted.
posted by TedW at 10:19 AM on March 5, 2020 [1 favorite]
Definitely the sort of thing Angel would do. And then his old buddy Jim would have to get him out of the trouble that resulted.
posted by TedW at 10:19 AM on March 5, 2020 [1 favorite]
Can you hire an escrow guy on the dark web? Asking for a friend.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 10:32 AM on March 5, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 10:32 AM on March 5, 2020 [1 favorite]
I always thought these took the form of assassination markets, effectively a raffle where hit men bid small amounts to "predict" the date of a given target's death, and then a big payout goes to the bidder whose prediction is closest to coming true. And if there were competing predictions for a target's death, well, the game is afoot!
(This is all grim under any circumstances, but now that I type it out, I realize that this would be a very "gig economy" way of hiring a murderer.)
posted by incomple at 10:36 AM on March 5, 2020 [3 favorites]
(This is all grim under any circumstances, but now that I type it out, I realize that this would be a very "gig economy" way of hiring a murderer.)
posted by incomple at 10:36 AM on March 5, 2020 [3 favorites]
light web
I think metafilter should advertise its classic blue/green/gray theme as “dark web version.”
posted by spitbull at 10:51 AM on March 5, 2020 [3 favorites]
“... to live outside the law you must be honest.”
posted by jenkinsEar at 10:52 AM on March 5, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by jenkinsEar at 10:52 AM on March 5, 2020 [1 favorite]
How was your "problem" "resolved" by Tim today ?
We hope you will contact Tim again in the future if you need any other spouses murdered. Come on we know you! You will.
We also work on referrals from satisfied customers. Get a referral bonus of $20 ($100 max) once your referred jobs are completed!
posted by The_Vegetables at 10:59 AM on March 5, 2020 [3 favorites]
We hope you will contact Tim again in the future if you need any other spouses murdered. Come on we know you! You will.
We also work on referrals from satisfied customers. Get a referral bonus of $20 ($100 max) once your referred jobs are completed!
posted by The_Vegetables at 10:59 AM on March 5, 2020 [3 favorites]
Murder can definitely bring a new dimension to a "Yelp!" review.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 11:41 AM on March 5, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 11:41 AM on March 5, 2020 [1 favorite]
On top of simply scamming people trying to hire hitmen, these sites should be blackmailing them. It's all supposed to be super-secret Dark Web anonymous, but it doesn't take a genius to figure out the identity of a guy paying to have a "stranger's" wife killed. They should take the payment for the hit, string along the person getting as much information as possible on record, and then threaten to send all the communications and records to the cops unless the person pays more.
posted by star gentle uterus at 11:44 AM on March 5, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by star gentle uterus at 11:44 AM on March 5, 2020 [1 favorite]
Come on we know you! You will.
The first time I've laughed all day; thank you, The_Vegetables
posted by taz at 12:08 PM on March 5, 2020 [1 favorite]
The first time I've laughed all day; thank you, The_Vegetables
posted by taz at 12:08 PM on March 5, 2020 [1 favorite]
Then it seems like the obvious thing to do is start an escrow service, build up a rep, then walk away with a bunch of money.
Yep, of course. It's scams all the way down.
posted by muddgirl at 12:25 PM on March 5, 2020 [3 favorites]
Yep, of course. It's scams all the way down.
posted by muddgirl at 12:25 PM on March 5, 2020 [3 favorites]
Clavdius: I remember that Agatha Christie story! I was disappointed with the ending; I had expected that the deaths would have been entirely coincidental, with the supposed murderers simply claiming responsibility when their "target" happened to die within a year, as some undoubtedly would. Christie's solution was too contrived IMO.
posted by Joe in Australia at 12:34 PM on March 5, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by Joe in Australia at 12:34 PM on March 5, 2020 [1 favorite]
If it were truly possible to hire a hitman on the Dark Web, how are any former Trump Administation figures who wrote books left alive?
posted by oneswellfoop at 12:35 PM on March 5, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by oneswellfoop at 12:35 PM on March 5, 2020 [3 favorites]
Does anyone know what the actual crime the Des Plaines woman was convicted of? If the "Sicilian Hitmen International Network" didn't really exist then can the crime actually be attempted murder?
Asking for a friend.
posted by Joe in Australia at 1:03 PM on March 5, 2020
Asking for a friend.
posted by Joe in Australia at 1:03 PM on March 5, 2020
I've never been able to figure out how any of the dark web is legitimate, not just murders. You give someone bitcoin and expect drugs or stolen electronics or fake watches in return. What motivation do they have to deliver the goods to you? They're just a username on the internet, and they have your money.
Back in the hoary old days of the net/BBSes this is how practically all transactions worked. Some one would offer something for sale; you'd send them a postal order or even cash; you'd get the stuff. I bought hundreds of dollars worth of merchandise this way.
posted by Mitheral at 1:05 PM on March 5, 2020
Back in the hoary old days of the net/BBSes this is how practically all transactions worked. Some one would offer something for sale; you'd send them a postal order or even cash; you'd get the stuff. I bought hundreds of dollars worth of merchandise this way.
posted by Mitheral at 1:05 PM on March 5, 2020
can the crime actually be attempted murder?
You can absolutely be convicted of attempted murder even if a means of performing the murder turns out to be fake. There only needs to be evidence beyond reasonable doubt that a person truly intended for the action to result in someone's death. For example, if someone picks up a fake gun, points it at someone and pulls the trigger, they can be convicted of attempted murder if the prosecution can convince that the defendant thought the gun was real and loaded. Similarly, giving a large amount of money to someone and directing them to kill a victim is attempted murder if the defendant believed the person to truly be a hitman.
posted by WaylandSmith at 1:11 PM on March 5, 2020 [1 favorite]
You can absolutely be convicted of attempted murder even if a means of performing the murder turns out to be fake. There only needs to be evidence beyond reasonable doubt that a person truly intended for the action to result in someone's death. For example, if someone picks up a fake gun, points it at someone and pulls the trigger, they can be convicted of attempted murder if the prosecution can convince that the defendant thought the gun was real and loaded. Similarly, giving a large amount of money to someone and directing them to kill a victim is attempted murder if the defendant believed the person to truly be a hitman.
posted by WaylandSmith at 1:11 PM on March 5, 2020 [1 favorite]
Depends on the state. I think some still have "factual impossibility" as a defense to attempt.
Interestingly, if a customer acts on his own to hire a fake hit man, he probably can't be convicted of conspiracy to commit murder, either, as the fake hit man lacks the requisite intent to enter into the required agreement to commit a criminal act. But if, say, an abused wife and her protective brother pool their resources to hire one, it might be (you have your two actors with agreement to commit criminal act).
posted by praemunire at 2:04 PM on March 5, 2020 [3 favorites]
Interestingly, if a customer acts on his own to hire a fake hit man, he probably can't be convicted of conspiracy to commit murder, either, as the fake hit man lacks the requisite intent to enter into the required agreement to commit a criminal act. But if, say, an abused wife and her protective brother pool their resources to hire one, it might be (you have your two actors with agreement to commit criminal act).
posted by praemunire at 2:04 PM on March 5, 2020 [3 favorites]
Nthing the idea that this is framed weirdly, as though conspiracy to commit murder is less bad than someone using bitcoin to buy drugs.
posted by asnider at 2:16 PM on March 5, 2020
posted by asnider at 2:16 PM on March 5, 2020
What is the return policy?
posted by srboisvert at 3:15 PM on March 5, 2020
posted by srboisvert at 3:15 PM on March 5, 2020
Does anyone know what the actual crime the Des Plaines woman was convicted of?
Per that link, it was "Attempt First Degree Murder, a Class X Felony." Regarding which, 720 ILCS 5/8-4 provides:
Per that link, it was "Attempt First Degree Murder, a Class X Felony." Regarding which, 720 ILCS 5/8-4 provides:
A person commits the offense of attempt when, with intent to commit a specific offense, he or she does any act that constitutes a substantial step toward the commission of that offense.posted by Not A Thing at 4:57 PM on March 5, 2020 [3 favorites]
It is not a defense to a charge of attempt that because of a misapprehension of the circumstances it would have been impossible for the accused to commit the offense attempted.
This is literally nightmare fuel, and police barely did anything about it.
So... just like pretty much every other crime people want cops to take seriously?
posted by bile and syntax at 5:09 PM on March 5, 2020 [2 favorites]
So... just like pretty much every other crime people want cops to take seriously?
posted by bile and syntax at 5:09 PM on March 5, 2020 [2 favorites]
Cops don't exist to protect you, silly, they exist to protect the state.
posted by axiom at 9:00 PM on March 5, 2020
posted by axiom at 9:00 PM on March 5, 2020
Similarly, giving a large amount of money to someone and directing them to kill a victim is attempted murder if the defendant believed the person to truly be a hitman.
Take away Hitman and direct payment and it's a crime, one being conspiracy. I think the Miller case is on of the first of murder for gain using the internet with a conviction.
Ironically, I have never seen Jim Rockford weild an automatic pistol.
posted by clavdivs at 10:47 PM on March 5, 2020
Take away Hitman and direct payment and it's a crime, one being conspiracy. I think the Miller case is on of the first of murder for gain using the internet with a conviction.
Ironically, I have never seen Jim Rockford weild an automatic pistol.
posted by clavdivs at 10:47 PM on March 5, 2020
Where it gets really interesting is when both sides genuinely believe in, for example, curses. Will a US court convict if the crime is 'factually impossible' but the assassin, client, and victim believe it to be possible?
posted by aspersioncast at 10:18 AM on March 6, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by aspersioncast at 10:18 AM on March 6, 2020 [2 favorites]
Take away Hitman and direct payment and it's a crime, one being conspiracy.
Maybe I'm not understanding what you're saying, but you can't be a conspiracy of one.
Where it gets really interesting is when both sides genuinely believe in, for example, curses. Will a US court convict if the crime is 'factually impossible' but the assassin, client, and victim believe it to be possible?
If the "problem" is that the gun was somehow undetectably disabled, conviction in most states.
If the "problem" is that curses don't actually kill people, that would most likely be treated as a matter of legal impossibility--even if the cursing ritual is completed, it's not a crime to carry out a cursing ritual. No conviction.
posted by praemunire at 12:57 PM on March 6, 2020
Maybe I'm not understanding what you're saying, but you can't be a conspiracy of one.
Where it gets really interesting is when both sides genuinely believe in, for example, curses. Will a US court convict if the crime is 'factually impossible' but the assassin, client, and victim believe it to be possible?
If the "problem" is that the gun was somehow undetectably disabled, conviction in most states.
If the "problem" is that curses don't actually kill people, that would most likely be treated as a matter of legal impossibility--even if the cursing ritual is completed, it's not a crime to carry out a cursing ritual. No conviction.
posted by praemunire at 12:57 PM on March 6, 2020
They should take the payment for the hit, string along the person getting as much information as possible on record, and then threaten to send all the communications and records to the cops unless the person pays more.
Yes, but then the person who commissioned the first hit would then commission another one to kill the first fake hitman who is now doing the blackmailing, but then the second fake hitman would also start blackmailing so the person who commissioned the first and second hit would then commission a third, and within something like three months every human being on earth is a fake hitman.
posted by reynir at 1:09 PM on March 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
Yes, but then the person who commissioned the first hit would then commission another one to kill the first fake hitman who is now doing the blackmailing, but then the second fake hitman would also start blackmailing so the person who commissioned the first and second hit would then commission a third, and within something like three months every human being on earth is a fake hitman.
posted by reynir at 1:09 PM on March 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
Relevant to any discussion of daisy-chaining murder plots: Hesitant hitmen jailed over botched assassination in China
posted by Not A Thing at 4:52 PM on March 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by Not A Thing at 4:52 PM on March 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
Apparently there has been at least one instance of someone charged with conspiracy to commit murder via curse, but the case didn't go to trial so we will never know how that would have gone in court.
posted by phoenixy at 2:10 AM on March 7, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by phoenixy at 2:10 AM on March 7, 2020 [1 favorite]
That's what I was looking for.
posted by aspersioncast at 12:19 PM on March 9, 2020
posted by aspersioncast at 12:19 PM on March 9, 2020
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“There is actual crime, but we are too busy talking about some guy who wants to kill his ex-girlfriend’s new boyfriend,” she said.
She makes it sound like a bad thing, but I'm glad people who want someone murdered are getting arrested.
posted by Omnomnom at 7:42 AM on March 5, 2020 [18 favorites]