RIP Genesis P-Orridge
March 15, 2020 1:33 AM Subscribe
Genesis P-Orridge has died aged 70.
The following message is from Genesse and Caresse P-Orridge :-
Dear friends, family and loving supporters,
It is with very heavy hearts that we announce thee passing of our beloved father, Genesis Breyer P-Orridge.
S/he had been battling leukemia for two and a half years and dropped h/er body early this morning, Saturday March 14th, 2020.
S/he will be laid to rest with h/er other half, Jaqueline "Lady Jaye" Breyer who left us in 2007, where they will be re-united.
Thank you for your love and support and for respecting our privacy as we are grieving.
Caresse & Genesse P-Orridge
#s/heisher/eforever
The following message is from Genesse and Caresse P-Orridge :-
Dear friends, family and loving supporters,
It is with very heavy hearts that we announce thee passing of our beloved father, Genesis Breyer P-Orridge.
S/he had been battling leukemia for two and a half years and dropped h/er body early this morning, Saturday March 14th, 2020.
S/he will be laid to rest with h/er other half, Jaqueline "Lady Jaye" Breyer who left us in 2007, where they will be re-united.
Thank you for your love and support and for respecting our privacy as we are grieving.
Caresse & Genesse P-Orridge
#s/heisher/eforever
A stunningly original, wonderful presence.
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posted by Phlegmco(tm) at 2:26 AM on March 15, 2020 [2 favorites]
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posted by Phlegmco(tm) at 2:26 AM on March 15, 2020 [2 favorites]
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posted by Ten Cold Hot Dogs at 2:57 AM on March 15, 2020
posted by Ten Cold Hot Dogs at 2:57 AM on March 15, 2020
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posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 3:03 AM on March 15, 2020
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 3:03 AM on March 15, 2020
One of my favourite first dates was going to see The Ballad of Genesis and Lady Jaye. Maybe not always a great person, but Gen was truly singular and we're poorer without he/r.
posted by nicolas léonard sadi carnot at 3:22 AM on March 15, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by nicolas léonard sadi carnot at 3:22 AM on March 15, 2020 [3 favorites]
Dammit.
Guess I know what vinyl I'll be spinning today.
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posted by Thorzdad at 3:32 AM on March 15, 2020 [1 favorite]
Guess I know what vinyl I'll be spinning today.
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posted by Thorzdad at 3:32 AM on March 15, 2020 [1 favorite]
I remember seeing h/er at a lot of gallery openings in the Lower East Side when I moved to NYC a few years ago. A very calming presence. I never got to talk to Genesis because I was too intimidated by h/er circle of cool friends to come up and say "hi," but I have always heard great things about h/er.
posted by backlikeclap at 3:41 AM on March 15, 2020
posted by backlikeclap at 3:41 AM on March 15, 2020
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posted by soundguy99 at 4:10 AM on March 15, 2020
posted by soundguy99 at 4:10 AM on March 15, 2020
"You know how punks would say, 'learn three chords and form a band' – and we'd say, 'why learn any chords?'" —Genesis P-Orridge
When I was an angsty teen growing up in the 90s, there was a Camelot Music at the mall. They had a cutout bin full of 99-cent cassettes – and, for some reason, it always had a lot of industrial / electronic / experimental music. I used to buy those tapes by the armload – which is how I discovered Throbbing Gristle.
Even to an ear accustomed to noise and dark posturing, they stood out. That shit got bleak.
TG might not have been the first to bring darkness to electronic music, but they were definitely one of the most important.
I later saw Genesis live with Download (a project that also featured members of Skinny Puppy). Memorable night.
S/he was a pioneer, for sure.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 4:11 AM on March 15, 2020 [11 favorites]
When I was an angsty teen growing up in the 90s, there was a Camelot Music at the mall. They had a cutout bin full of 99-cent cassettes – and, for some reason, it always had a lot of industrial / electronic / experimental music. I used to buy those tapes by the armload – which is how I discovered Throbbing Gristle.
Even to an ear accustomed to noise and dark posturing, they stood out. That shit got bleak.
TG might not have been the first to bring darkness to electronic music, but they were definitely one of the most important.
I later saw Genesis live with Download (a project that also featured members of Skinny Puppy). Memorable night.
S/he was a pioneer, for sure.
posted by escape from the potato planet at 4:11 AM on March 15, 2020 [11 favorites]
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posted by lalochezia at 4:15 AM on March 15, 2020
posted by lalochezia at 4:15 AM on March 15, 2020
I never liked Throbbing Gristle very much but I've got a copy of Dreams Less Sweet floating about somewhere; the influence of the future Coil definitely tempers things. Dark like a nursery rhyme.
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posted by solarion at 4:31 AM on March 15, 2020 [3 favorites]
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posted by solarion at 4:31 AM on March 15, 2020 [3 favorites]
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posted by Capybara at 4:38 AM on March 15, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by Capybara at 4:38 AM on March 15, 2020 [1 favorite]
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posted by Lawn Beaver at 4:43 AM on March 15, 2020
posted by Lawn Beaver at 4:43 AM on March 15, 2020
Psychic TV's album Kondole remains one of my favorite albums, full of whales and 23s.
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posted by Radiophonic Oddity at 4:48 AM on March 15, 2020 [6 favorites]
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posted by Radiophonic Oddity at 4:48 AM on March 15, 2020 [6 favorites]
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I was blessed to see Psychic TV in the 80's. But Throbbing Gristle in the '70's also had made a huge impact on me. They played at the now legendary Dark Space 24 hour gig in the Project Arts Centre in Dublin. I slept through them (it was a long gig...). Damn. A complex and difficult character, but vital as fuck.
posted by stonepharisee at 5:15 AM on March 15, 2020 [2 favorites]
I was blessed to see Psychic TV in the 80's. But Throbbing Gristle in the '70's also had made a huge impact on me. They played at the now legendary Dark Space 24 hour gig in the Project Arts Centre in Dublin. I slept through them (it was a long gig...). Damn. A complex and difficult character, but vital as fuck.
posted by stonepharisee at 5:15 AM on March 15, 2020 [2 favorites]
If Cosey Fanni Tutti's allegations are correct, s/he was essentially an abusive cult leader, and I'm not sure deserves a . (Should Roman Polanski get one when he dies because he made some great films?)
posted by acb at 5:42 AM on March 15, 2020 [20 favorites]
posted by acb at 5:42 AM on March 15, 2020 [20 favorites]
I think. I’m going to try and last just as long as I can. As the doctors keep saying — and I love it when they tell me this — they say “You’re complicated.” At which point I burst out laughing and say yes, that’s been told to me before.
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posted by SageLeVoid at 5:44 AM on March 15, 2020
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posted by SageLeVoid at 5:44 AM on March 15, 2020
Least interesting person in Throbbing Gristle.
Most interesting person in Psychic TV.
Only one of these bands had a long term impact beyond providing titillating stories about abuse.
posted by thatwhichfalls at 6:11 AM on March 15, 2020 [1 favorite]
Most interesting person in Psychic TV.
Only one of these bands had a long term impact beyond providing titillating stories about abuse.
posted by thatwhichfalls at 6:11 AM on March 15, 2020 [1 favorite]
"I’d grown up thinking that the world was what I saw, and then I realized it wasn’t — it could be anything at all."
Problematic, sometimes infuriating, but also a great mind of h/er generation. RIP.
posted by ryanshepard at 6:57 AM on March 15, 2020
Problematic, sometimes infuriating, but also a great mind of h/er generation. RIP.
posted by ryanshepard at 6:57 AM on March 15, 2020
Here's an interview I did with Genesis in 2008:
http://archive.ttbook.org/book/genesis-p-orridge-gender
posted by DougieGee at 7:42 AM on March 15, 2020 [5 favorites]
http://archive.ttbook.org/book/genesis-p-orridge-gender
posted by DougieGee at 7:42 AM on March 15, 2020 [5 favorites]
If Cosey Fanni Tutti's allegations are correct, s/he was essentially an abusive cult leader, and I'm not sure deserves a . (Should Roman Polanski get one when he dies because he made some great films?)
S/he was a frequently deeply unpleasant and abusive quasi-cult leader, and also an incredible creative force. My . is made with that context in mind (as it will be for Polanski when he goes).
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posted by inire at 7:49 AM on March 15, 2020 [3 favorites]
S/he was a frequently deeply unpleasant and abusive quasi-cult leader, and also an incredible creative force. My . is made with that context in mind (as it will be for Polanski when he goes).
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posted by inire at 7:49 AM on March 15, 2020 [3 favorites]
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posted by oceanjesse at 7:54 AM on March 15, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by oceanjesse at 7:54 AM on March 15, 2020 [1 favorite]
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posted by my-username at 7:59 AM on March 15, 2020
posted by my-username at 7:59 AM on March 15, 2020
Highly, highly recommend this Love + Radio podcast episode.
posted by designbot at 8:59 AM on March 15, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by designbot at 8:59 AM on March 15, 2020 [2 favorites]
I spent a day with Genesis back in the day in Brighton. It was actually for Caresses birthday party. Got to see the collection of Burroughs and Gysin cut-ups. Both Throbbing Gristle and PTV were a huge influence on me. Was lucky enough to perform at the Scala for the annual Temple festival they held in the early 90’s. Really a powerful force.
posted by misterpatrick at 9:38 AM on March 15, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by misterpatrick at 9:38 AM on March 15, 2020 [2 favorites]
I made the mistake elsewhere by saying, "He did it his way." Pronoun failure in precisely the wrong context. But the sentiment remains (though Genesis would be one of our least sentimental artists ever) -- we just lost one of the all-time heavyweights of the culture wars.
S/he was a frequently deeply unpleasant and abusive quasi-cult leader, and also an incredible creative force.
no surprise at all that S/he'd leave us with paradoxical feelings/concerns.
Speaking of which, my one close-contact came some years ago in a rock joint that had some gotten transformed into a dance club. I did a lot (saw a lot) of weird stuff in the 1980s, most of which I've pretty much forgotten. But I doubt I'll ever forget that evening.
posted by philip-random at 9:54 AM on March 15, 2020
S/he was a frequently deeply unpleasant and abusive quasi-cult leader, and also an incredible creative force.
no surprise at all that S/he'd leave us with paradoxical feelings/concerns.
Speaking of which, my one close-contact came some years ago in a rock joint that had some gotten transformed into a dance club. I did a lot (saw a lot) of weird stuff in the 1980s, most of which I've pretty much forgotten. But I doubt I'll ever forget that evening.
posted by philip-random at 9:54 AM on March 15, 2020
Cosey Fanni Tutti's allegations are correct, s/he was essentially an abusive cult leader
Yep - forcing her to have unprotected sex leading to her having an abortion, expecting her to have orgies with people of h/er choosing .
I think now that most respected musical heroes were sexual abusers. Very sad.
posted by ihaveyourfoot at 10:03 AM on March 15, 2020 [5 favorites]
Yep - forcing her to have unprotected sex leading to her having an abortion, expecting her to have orgies with people of h/er choosing .
I think now that most respected musical heroes were sexual abusers. Very sad.
posted by ihaveyourfoot at 10:03 AM on March 15, 2020 [5 favorites]
Back in the early 90s when I discovered industrial music via Skinny Puppy, KMFDM, etc., I tried to get into their influences which led me to Throbbing Gristle. And I have to say that with the exception of Discipline, I enjoyed none of it. I tried Download ('cuz Skinny Puppy) and it was okay 'til P-Orridge showed up. Even last year when I (finally) picked up some Pigface, as soon as I hear P-Orridge, it's the skip button.
So, not my thing and a problematic person, but for he/r influence on the art form:
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posted by suetanvil at 10:13 AM on March 15, 2020 [4 favorites]
So, not my thing and a problematic person, but for he/r influence on the art form:
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posted by suetanvil at 10:13 AM on March 15, 2020 [4 favorites]
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posted by SystematicAbuse at 10:28 AM on March 15, 2020
posted by SystematicAbuse at 10:28 AM on March 15, 2020
Yeah - it's difficult to reconcile, but the stunted Genius, vision and boldness of Genesis is probably why its' easier to put past, but it makes me sick?
I (almost) always have the ability to separate the artist from the art if it's something like Brando it's harder, but Lars von Trier or something? But then along comes mr "Pull up your pants" Cosby...
At least Genesis was telling us "FUCK YOUR TRANSGRESSIONS"
It was wrong, and I am sad to have learned about that this past decade (though I'm sure it was an open secret for longer than before the book came out).
But Genesis helped make it OK for me to identify as Pan-gender. I would have probably just chosen "NB" as my own sense if not for Genesis. Pangender is the closest that comes to my heart, not just the pandrogyne, but htat there is more than 2 genders and my exists isn't just caught in a binary (non-binary itself has an implication of binary in reaction to - pangender for me abolishes across all axes). But that's just my personal.
The work on Chaso magick nad occult had a prfound impact on me in my early interneting days (and probably before with RPG Tabletop books from White Wolf).
The first time I saw a Psychic Cross symbol was a Sassy Magazine!
Some girl was on the street they asked questions and they were like "Yeah it's a Psychic Cross" and I"m like WHAT IS THIS?
And that was really my first recognition of the power of a meme. More so than the ones we're all indoctrinated in already (the fish, the cross) and it was able to reflect in my life many years later, when I heard not just TG's music, but PTV & learned more about ToPY. Pandrogyny. etc...
RIP. My you suffer as you need to purge of your sins, and may your saintly qualities help raise your spectered shadow ever higher across the few remaining decades of liberation we have. Salut.
posted by symbioid at 11:42 AM on March 15, 2020 [7 favorites]
I (almost) always have the ability to separate the artist from the art if it's something like Brando it's harder, but Lars von Trier or something? But then along comes mr "Pull up your pants" Cosby...
At least Genesis was telling us "FUCK YOUR TRANSGRESSIONS"
It was wrong, and I am sad to have learned about that this past decade (though I'm sure it was an open secret for longer than before the book came out).
But Genesis helped make it OK for me to identify as Pan-gender. I would have probably just chosen "NB" as my own sense if not for Genesis. Pangender is the closest that comes to my heart, not just the pandrogyne, but htat there is more than 2 genders and my exists isn't just caught in a binary (non-binary itself has an implication of binary in reaction to - pangender for me abolishes across all axes). But that's just my personal.
The work on Chaso magick nad occult had a prfound impact on me in my early interneting days (and probably before with RPG Tabletop books from White Wolf).
The first time I saw a Psychic Cross symbol was a Sassy Magazine!
Some girl was on the street they asked questions and they were like "Yeah it's a Psychic Cross" and I"m like WHAT IS THIS?
And that was really my first recognition of the power of a meme. More so than the ones we're all indoctrinated in already (the fish, the cross) and it was able to reflect in my life many years later, when I heard not just TG's music, but PTV & learned more about ToPY. Pandrogyny. etc...
RIP. My you suffer as you need to purge of your sins, and may your saintly qualities help raise your spectered shadow ever higher across the few remaining decades of liberation we have. Salut.
posted by symbioid at 11:42 AM on March 15, 2020 [7 favorites]
S/he was a frequently deeply unpleasant and abusive quasi-cult leader, and also an incredible creative force.
It was so disappointing to read about those allegations a while back; I am so tired of having to reassess the legacy of people whose work is deservedly important but who turn out to have behaved badly.
posted by Dip Flash at 11:54 AM on March 15, 2020 [3 favorites]
It was so disappointing to read about those allegations a while back; I am so tired of having to reassess the legacy of people whose work is deservedly important but who turn out to have behaved badly.
posted by Dip Flash at 11:54 AM on March 15, 2020 [3 favorites]
Ah, fuck. :(
posted by loquacious at 1:31 PM on March 15, 2020
posted by loquacious at 1:31 PM on March 15, 2020
I don't want to rag too much, but while TG was a significant and formative presence in my music history, Genesis got less creative and more insufferable as their fame grew (see also: Rauschenberg's digital works). In this way, touching on separating art from the artist, in Genesis' case the artist became the art as far as I'm concerned, and that they became so in a physical way just puts the button on it. But I also feel s/he was successful at that transformation, and my opinions otherwise will eventually be lost to the sands anyway.
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posted by rhizome at 1:54 PM on March 15, 2020
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posted by rhizome at 1:54 PM on March 15, 2020
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posted by doctornemo at 2:04 PM on March 15, 2020
posted by doctornemo at 2:04 PM on March 15, 2020
I've talked before about my dinner with Genesis, so I suppose I'll just leave a .
posted by aspersioncast at 2:30 PM on March 15, 2020
posted by aspersioncast at 2:30 PM on March 15, 2020
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posted by leslietron at 4:49 PM on March 15, 2020
posted by leslietron at 4:49 PM on March 15, 2020
If Cosey Fanni Tutti's allegations are correct, s/he was essentially an abusive cult leader, and I'm not sure deserves a . (Should Roman Polanski get one when he dies because he made some great films?)
As others have said, you can acknowledge the influence someone's had, and even be sad about their passing, without that being an endorsement of their every action. Polanski is one of my favorite directors, he is an incredible talent, he is also a rapist. I will be sad when he dies, because I will be sad to have no more Polanski films, not because I think he's a good person.
It's an often-discussed and troublesome issue whether or not reprehensible actions negate any good a person may have done. But any death is a cause for a . if the person or their death matters to you. It doesn't mean you don't respect the harm they may have caused, it means you respect any good they may have done.
posted by biscotti at 5:37 AM on March 16, 2020 [2 favorites]
As others have said, you can acknowledge the influence someone's had, and even be sad about their passing, without that being an endorsement of their every action. Polanski is one of my favorite directors, he is an incredible talent, he is also a rapist. I will be sad when he dies, because I will be sad to have no more Polanski films, not because I think he's a good person.
It's an often-discussed and troublesome issue whether or not reprehensible actions negate any good a person may have done. But any death is a cause for a . if the person or their death matters to you. It doesn't mean you don't respect the harm they may have caused, it means you respect any good they may have done.
posted by biscotti at 5:37 AM on March 16, 2020 [2 favorites]
Genesis was the most interesting person-as-art I've heard of so far. Nobody is perfect, everyone is shitty. There's minus one art in the world today regardless.
posted by GoblinHoney at 9:27 AM on March 16, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by GoblinHoney at 9:27 AM on March 16, 2020 [1 favorite]
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posted by filtergik at 2:19 AM on March 15, 2020