What the Hell Is Going on at Trader Joe’s?
April 10, 2020 3:16 PM   Subscribe

What the Hell Is Going on at Trader Joe’s? — Trader Joe’s employees attempt to unionize amid increasingly stressful (and in some cases, dangerous) work demands brought on by the coronavirus pandemic
For fans of the cult-favorite grocer, the current furor surrounding Trader Joe’s and its workers may be surprising. After all, the company — which has grown from a California neighborhood store into an Aldi-owned chain with more than 500 locations — has always prided itself on being a cut above other supermarkets, with high-quality products and friendly customer service that appeal to shoppers, a business model that is studied in MBA programs, and a reputation for being a good place to work, with above-average compensation, medical, dental, vision, and retirement plans, and annual salary increases, per the Associated Press.

But as Kim Kelly wrote for the Daily Beast, “[b]ehind all the cheery decor and novelty baked goods, the workers who keep the shelves stocked and cash registers ringing are suffering.” In recent weeks, BuzzFeed News, the New York Times, and Bloomberg Businessweek have documented the experiences of Trader Joe’s workers at this singular point in time, when the grocery chain is caught in a unionization effort and a public-health crisis. The coalition behind the Trader Joe’s union — which only went public on March 1 — quickly found itself fighting for immediate coronavirus protections for employees. The pandemic only served to highlight what the coalition has been saying: employers like Trader Joe’s needs to do more for its workers.
posted by tonycpsu (49 comments total) 34 users marked this as a favorite
 
Like so many things right now, there's a dilemma between supporting a business and putting it's employees at risk. There was a piece in the NY Times about getting takeout - does it hurt the cooks more than it helps them? Every 'essential' service industry presents the same issues. My local grocery co-op unionized last year, and just this month fought for and won crisis pay. And the co-op is supposed to be the good guy! When they and TJs are defaulting to subpar treatment of employees, I can only assume that the other stores are doing no better, or probably doing worse.

Within the last five years, I have worked for a grocery store with a positive public image whose management treated employees with contempt, but I still want to support my friends who still work there. What can I do? I can hope that the staff continues to fight for their rights, but I have to get food somewhere and I would rather support my friends, however indirectly, than some other chain that treats its employees exactly the same regardless of the public's rose-colored glasses.
posted by papayaninja at 3:43 PM on April 10, 2020 [16 favorites]


What we need is to stop having people traipse through stores until we have a vaccine.

WFs and TJs are the only venues I can catch and/or spread the virus to other people right now!
posted by Heywood Mogroot III at 3:57 PM on April 10, 2020 [3 favorites]


Of course it's not just Trader Joe's. Grocery store workers are murmuring about unions nationwide and are, well, afraid--and no wonder, because workers are already getting sick.

Crisis pay is coming down the pike at several chains, but there are already murmurs that it's not enough, and to a large extent safety depends on how willing store managers are to enforce social distancing protocols and cleanliness protocols. The $2/hour raise which seems to now be the standard rate of hazard pay may or may not be enough--we'll see how worker expectations shift over time. Certainly while Trader Joe's is now implementing it, they were slow to do so--and fast and decisive shifts really do play a role in generating confidence about how much your bosses care about your life.
posted by sciatrix at 3:58 PM on April 10, 2020 [18 favorites]


We decided to stop shopping at Trader Joe's/the local health food store and start shopping at a big box store. There is more square footage, the aisles are wider, and there is less staff on the floor during shopping hours (I don't think the Target grocery section is ever stocked during shopping hours, only at night, while TJs seems to be stocking constantly meaning more contact with customers).
posted by muddgirl at 4:02 PM on April 10, 2020


We decided to stop shopping at Trader Joe's/the local health food store and start shopping at a big box store. There is more square footage, the aisles are wider, and there is less staff on the floor during shopping hours

But TJs is smaller so you’ll spend less time there.

Which is better? Who knows!?

What we need is to stop having people traipse through stores until we have a vaccine.

So delivery only?
posted by mr_roboto at 4:22 PM on April 10, 2020


Let the employees unionize, but I'm kind of waiting for someone to start going back to something like the old timey general store model: A customer walks up to the counter and tells the merchant what they want and then someone goes in the back and grabs what is needed.

And of course with 21st century additions to allow people to input orders online or by phone ahead of time too.
posted by FJT at 4:23 PM on April 10, 2020 [12 favorites]


But TJs is smaller so you’ll spend less time there.

But it's not just about protecting me (or really, my husband) it's about minimizing our impact on the low wage "essential employees."
posted by muddgirl at 4:24 PM on April 10, 2020 [11 favorites]


We decided to stop shopping at Trader Joe's/the local health food store and start shopping at a big box store.

And, if you are going to one of the major brands (Safeway, Kroger, etc), sans Stater Bros, the workers are very likely already unionized.
posted by sideshow at 4:31 PM on April 10, 2020 [3 favorites]


I know it's seemingly unfeasible for many stores, but instead of just letting any lackadaisical disease-vector conspiracist wander at will through the stores, what about: order online, pickup-only? No customers allowed inside. Period. I know they all have mobile phones to order with because they're constantly crashing into me with their carts while starting at them.
posted by glonous keming at 4:37 PM on April 10, 2020 [19 favorites]


I hadn't thought about it, but our Trader Joe's is pretty much the ideal place to get infected. It has perpetually crowded aisles and the way they have the cash registers set up, there's no place to really queue up with safe spacing. Thankfully I haven't gone there since the great WFH began because the parking lot is a joke and I can't walk there anymore.
posted by selfnoise at 4:38 PM on April 10, 2020 [4 favorites]


I work(ed) for what most customers probably think of as a small business which sells food and technically falls into a category of business that can stay open in my city right now. The owners decided to close because business dropped off sharply. And you know what? I will be getting significantly more from state unemployment + the federal supplement to unemployment ($600/week) than I was earning at work. I realize it is not feasible for every single employee of a grocery store or restaurant to stay home and get unemployment--ultimately there needs to be some sort of food distribution system--but I don't think patronizing a food business "to support the employees" makes sense at this point, unless they are people who would not be eligible for unemployment benefits.
posted by needs more cowbell at 4:41 PM on April 10, 2020 [9 favorites]


We decided to stop shopping at Trader Joe's/the local health food store and start shopping at a big box store.

And, if you are going to one of the major brands (Safeway, Kroger, etc), sans Stater Bros, the workers are very likely already unionized.


The regional Safeway and Kroger run chains around here are unionized. That's not saying much, though. Oddly enough, TJs seemed to have no problem poaching employees from Safeway and Kroger, union or not. Don't know if covid tilts that equation.

If TJ employees want to unionize, more power to them.

I hadn't thought about it, but our Trader Joe's is pretty much the ideal place to get infected. It has perpetually crowded aisles and the way they have the cash registers set up, there's no place to really queue up with safe spacing. Thankfully I haven't gone there since the great WFH began because the parking lot is a joke and I can't walk there anymore.

The TJs around the block from my house was the first place I know of to take the covid threat seriously. They started by limiting the number of people in the store. And they're still doing it. The line to get in extends out the door, down the sidewalk and around the block at peak times. Mostly because they have the whole path marked out so people could line up safe distances from each other. FWIW.
posted by 2N2222 at 4:49 PM on April 10, 2020 [10 favorites]


My first thought about stories like this is usually "I absolutely want to support the Trader Joe's workers, and would be happy to do what I can to support their unionization" (which is ... what? Donate to their union? If I'm prioritizing giving to food banks and groups like Partners in Health right now?);

and then my second thought is my impression that nearly everyplace else is worse - I've definitely seen worse treatment and worse customer health protections at other nearby grocery stores;

and then my third thought is: focusing on any individual company is not nearly as useful as focusing on the industry as a whole, the economy as a whole.

EVERYONE who's working right now should get hazard pay, with more going to those who are most in contact with other people. It's not nearly as helpful for me to pressure Trader Joe's as it is for me to agitate (state-wide? at the federal level?) for hazard pay for EVERYONE who's at risk. I want Trader Joe's to do better by their employees; but I want EVERY company to do better by their employees.

Just like with Amazon, I'd rather get effective enforcement of very stringent worker safety laws applied universally, instead of just focusing on the most visible target. Even Amazon doesn't employ the majority of the workforce single-handedly. I'd rather put my limited energy toward protecting and raising wages for everyone.
posted by kristi at 4:50 PM on April 10, 2020 [12 favorites]


My local grocery monopoly, HEB, is offering crisis pay. It's an extra $2/hour, which beats a kick in the ass but really doesn't seem like enough for employees risking their lives.

They did finally get some protective stuff going, plastic barriers between cashier and customer. I've seen some employees with masks, but the masks are a mixed bag so I'm not at all sure they're provided by the store.

As always, I'm in favor of unionization for any reason. If we can get some unions out of COVID I'll count that as a small silver lining.
posted by sotonohito at 4:56 PM on April 10, 2020 [7 favorites]


At the TJ’s near me, they are limiting how many shoppers are in the store at any given time. You stand in a queue outside the store (six feet apart, of course) until a shopper leaves and you can go in. The number of shoppers inside are limited to approximately one per aisle. It’s not a perfect plan, but it’s far better than the usual shoulder-to-shoulder mess.
posted by Thorzdad at 4:59 PM on April 10, 2020 [3 favorites]


Let the employees unionize, but I'm kind of waiting for someone to start going back to something like the old timey general store model: A customer walks up to the counter and tells the merchant what they want and then someone goes in the back and grabs what is needed.

Some stores are doing this. PetValu, for instance. I don't think it's practical for large grocery stores since it takes a while to assemble a cart, but they could be doing delivery/curbside pick-up only.
posted by Stargazey at 5:02 PM on April 10, 2020 [1 favorite]




The local TJ's was the first store that I noticed limiting the amount of folks in the store at one time. Not to mention that they actually have more open space then some of the "grocery sections" of other nearby stores (coughSafewayTargetcough). They were also giving wipes to customers (with the implication of "no wipes, no entry") as they were entering the store (unlike Safeway or Costco).

Not saying TJ's couldn't have done more and sooner, but they're not exactly "fuck you, get back to work" either (especially compared to other stores0.
posted by gtrwolf at 5:29 PM on April 10, 2020 [2 favorites]


They did finally get some protective stuff going, plastic barriers between cashier and customer. I've seen some employees with masks, but the masks are a mixed bag so I'm not at all sure they're provided by the store.

As of last week, the stores have provided workers with surgical- style masks. Four per employee, to be cycled out over the course of a month. The storage guidelines weren't ideal at first--storing your mask in labeled and sealed plastic when not in use; paper is actually better--but those may improve with time.

The $2 hazard pay is something but yeah, not enough. This being Texas, I can't find evidence of much in the way of attempts to unionize at HEB, which might be a combination of generally crappy working conditions and HEB's reputation for being fairly decent. This does not mean unionization isn't a good idea, but I haven't seen good support for it yet. On the flip side, I haven't seen HEB try to crush its workers for trying to unionize, either.
posted by sciatrix at 6:28 PM on April 10, 2020 [1 favorite]


My local TJ's has wider aisles than any of the other markets nearby. They restricted capacity well before it became mandatory. The line wraps around the block because they at least try to keep people six feet apart. Honestly, you're safer there than at the market I end up going to; it's just that I find their produce mostly unappealing and these days it's produce I'm mostly shopping for, since I already had most of my stock of shelf-stable food and I'm trying to get my veggies in regularly, even if they're accompanied by way too much snack food.

Nonetheless, I hope they unionize successfully, as I hope they all do.
posted by praemunire at 6:47 PM on April 10, 2020 [1 favorite]


Just got back from TJ's trip. Haven't done it in awhile because of the line length. On the one hand, they are the only local store doing the limiting number of customers thing. On the other hand, both the local chain co-op, (PCC), and the local chain, (Ballard Market), have shields up in front of the cashiers, which TJs doesn't. Safeway has a person sort of sanitizing carts, and nothing else.
posted by Windopaene at 7:39 PM on April 10, 2020


I used to work at a Trader Joes. Our store threw out more food (at retail value*) than we paid our employees most weeks of the year. If wage hours creeped up you would hear about it immediately- but I could pitch over 10% of net sales for weeks at the holidays and nothing. My back of the envelope calculation: paying everyone at our store a living wage would have resulted in a 2% increase cost.

Trader Joes fights 'fair workweeks' and loves splitting shifts.

Folks think it's some sort of decent operation - but it really isn't - Trader Joes has given itself 10 years to get around to selling only cage free eggs, and even McDonalds and Burger King beat TJ's to signing on for the Coalition of Immokalee Workers's Fair Food Program. The Aldi brothers (my store was even visited by the one who got kidnapped!) run it as a hipster German walmart.

TJ's takes advantage of regulations around full time/part time employees. So most staff are always kept below 32 hours a week, and all the lower management work insane hours without overtime for what works out to be garbage hourly pay, and that's all for the promise of rising up and "captaining a ship". There are no normal full time employees at trader joes except for the captain, ours worked about 30 hours a week and got paid 120 000 base pay plus a cool 44 000 in bonus.

Whole Foods was worse.
posted by zenon at 8:47 PM on April 10, 2020 [17 favorites]


*just assume retail price is a very creative construction for entire categories of food
posted by zenon at 8:48 PM on April 10, 2020 [3 favorites]


Well, that's disappointing. Weird that the TJs employees are so good and so seemingly enthusiastic. That being said, there's only a couple of things I get there that I can't find anywhere else, (Tangerine juice, basically which Ms. Windo was medically encouraged to drink), so it's become an every two week trip, instead of the weekly trip my other stores are seeing.
posted by Windopaene at 8:55 PM on April 10, 2020


Well, that's disappointing. Weird that the TJs employees are so good and so seemingly enthusiastic.

Maybe it depends on the store/location? One of my friends who works (on the floor) at a TJ's manages to get 40 hours a week + at least some benefits/bonuses (probably not what management gets, but still...).
posted by gtrwolf at 9:03 PM on April 10, 2020


TJ's takes advantage of regulations around full time/part time employees. So most staff are always kept below 32 hours a week, and all the lower management work insane hours without overtime for what works out to be garbage hourly pay, and that's all for the promise of rising up and "captaining a ship". There are no normal full time employees at trader joes except for the captain, ours worked about 30 hours a week and got paid 120 000 base pay plus a cool 44 000 in bonus.

This describes exactly how unionized Kroger and Safeway run chains here operate. It's possible to get 40 hrs a week if you prove yourself a real good workhorse. Or if you were grandfathered before the last strike almost 20 years ago. Otherwise it makes no sense even trying to consider it any kind of career unless you're wiling to bust your ass on the management track.
posted by 2N2222 at 9:17 PM on April 10, 2020 [3 favorites]


I work in biosafety testing (roughly $30/hour) and we just got $2/hour as well.

Where the hell did that number magically come from across the board and who plugged it initially?

Is it a measure to help kill or mitigate the much larger numbers house dems are pushing?
posted by Slackermagee at 9:20 PM on April 10, 2020 [2 favorites]


A close relative of mine works for a TJ's in orange county. They just started doing a $2/hr crisis pay bonus which is a decent enough start, but then my sister received a letter in the mail from Trader Joe's explaining how better off she was without a union. Granted, TJ's is one of the better paying gigs in grocery with decent enough benefits (at least where she works), but it really made me wonder why they felt they had to send that letter. My sister isn't the super socially conscious type, and was generally against joining a union because of (what TJ's said) the Union dues would be. It felt weird trying to convince her that it'd be in her best interest to join a union when, by her perspective, most of her interests were already being served.
posted by Philipschall at 9:26 PM on April 10, 2020 [1 favorite]


Where is this mythical land where TJ aisles are wider than a postage stamp?
posted by muddgirl at 10:04 PM on April 10, 2020 [5 favorites]


$2/hour * 40 hours/week = $80 week "hazard pay"

I know I'm a wild-eyed socialist, but while it is materially better than being hit in the face with a cast iron pan, I don't believe it accurately compensates people for the risk they are assuming.

+$10/hour PLUS FULLY PAID HEALTH INSURANCE seems more on the mark for "Essential" workers.
posted by mikelieman at 10:17 PM on April 10, 2020 [19 favorites]


If your TJ’s has been remodeled in the last few years, the aisles are probably wider than a postage stamp.

If not... welp.
posted by verbminx at 1:37 AM on April 11, 2020 [1 favorite]


Hardly any employee at retail or grocery is getting 40 hours per week because that would equal full time; thus benefits. So that $2 per hour raise is whitewashing so customers can feel better about shopping. It is less than $80 per week. And if you are quarrinteened, thus any other household worker becomes quarrinteened, then there is no household income. There is no fund set up for that, so workers are even more stressed about the probability and likelihood of infection's impact. Good luck with that unemployment claim.

I cannot emphasize this enough: anything that is touted to the public as benefitting employees or, even customers, is really done to increase sales and shareholder perceptions or reduce OSHA fines. Period.

It's not the purpose of a business to benefit the customers or employees; a business makes money off the backs of those customers and employees. This has always been the dance of capitalism.

This is why those in power are killing off unions and regulatory agencies. Look at the lack of protection for healthcare workers: how in dog's name has regulation become so ineffective that basic, basic protection not available. And undocumented workers are really a whitewashed term for slavery with no protection.

If TJ's can unionize then they will have a small amount of power. Good luck; we're all counting on you.
posted by mightshould at 4:20 AM on April 11, 2020 [18 favorites]


I know it's seemingly unfeasible for many stores, but instead of just letting any lackadaisical disease-vector conspiracist wander at will through the stores, what about: order online, pickup-only? No customers allowed inside.

This. Even just in-store pickup of orders would be a good margin. There are retailers who've had this right for years *before* this crisis: you can online order stuff, they pick it out, when you get there you walk to the pickup desk, they look at your ID, they give you your stuff. Extra nice now not to minimize time spent int the store -- time I could be sharing microbes with others, mine or theirs -- or to have to touch their card reader or have them touch your money. The stuff is the only point of contact. Workers are less exposed to customers, customers are less exposed to workers and each other.

It isn't the way I *always* want to do things, browsing stuff in person is nice, but not spreading deadly viruses is also nice.

For grocers that haven't already adapted to this, I can imagine having to pick from the inventory would be an extra point of stress in an already stressful moment, but I'll bet a lot of workers would trade that for decreased exposure to shoppers wandering around the store.

At any rate, I'd have to need something pretty bad to do anything other than delivery or pickup right now. I miss some of my Trader Joe's purchases but not bad enough to go into a store.
posted by wildblueyonder at 5:34 AM on April 11, 2020 [3 favorites]


HEB does online ordering for curbside pickup. I think their system got overwhelmed, or they can't/won't hire enough people to do the order picking, because no exaggeration, the soonest I can get an order set for curbside pickup is a 10 days from now. They apparently have a **VERY** limited number of pickers and they're booked solid.
posted by sotonohito at 5:40 AM on April 11, 2020 [1 favorite]


Hardly any employee at retail or grocery is getting 40 hours per week because that would equal full time; thus benefits. So that $2 per hour raise is whitewashing so customers can feel better about shopping. It is less than $80 per week.

This is not entirely true; it does significantly depend on what company you work for. For example, my roommate at the HEB would easily be full time if she wanted to be and has been previously; right now, she isn't, but this is because she made requests about limiting her own hours to minimize nights. By contrast, my other roommate at the pawnbroker works well above full time, as did both the other people I knew who worked at that store. There, the chain's model seems to be to hire very rarely, run short staffed, and run workers into the ground for as long as possible before grudgingly hiring again. But you get all the hours (and overtime) you could possibly want, I guess.

From personal observation, it does matter exactly where you are. I will say from observation that HEB rarely bothers to advertise the good shit it does for its workers, like gifting all of them a total of 15% stock in an otherwise privately owned company, or celebrating a high rating as a grocery chain by giving every single worker $100.

You cannot rely on corporations to do that kind of shit, of course, and perhaps if the Butt family trabsitions ownership to a new scion with a profit-minded approach, things will change for the worse. And the examples of Chik-fil-A and Hobby Lobby show us that privately owned corporations are certainly no panacea. But examples like this do show us: the model run by the school of "extract as much value from employees as possible for as little investment as possible, then dump their husks on the floor and find new ones" corporations that clearly dominate American philosophy isn't the only way to do things, and it is quite possible to choose to be humane and still make a profit. I think that only serves to indict most of the rest of retail and grocery, though.
posted by sciatrix at 6:10 AM on April 11, 2020 [5 favorites]


because no exaggeration, the soonest I can get an order set for curbside pickup is a 10 days from now

This prompted me to look at the current situation in the UK.

Of the places that deliver here: Co-op has given up completely, Sainsburys aren't accepting new customers, Tesco is booked up solid for the next three weeks (delivery and collection), Amazon Fresh is booked up for the next four weeks, I can't get the Waitrose website to let me in, Ocado are releasing slots like they're Jonas Brothers* tickets, and non-Fresh Amazon are selling boxes of breakfast cereal for £40.

(* update reference as necessary)
posted by grahamparks at 6:26 AM on April 11, 2020 [2 favorites]



My local grocery monopoly, HEB, is offering crisis pay. It's an extra $2/hour, which beats a kick in the ass but really doesn't seem like enough for employees risking their lives.

They did finally get some protective stuff going, plastic barriers between cashier and customer. I've seen some employees with masks, but the masks are a mixed bag so I'm not at all sure they're provided by the store.


They’re certainly making a concerted media push about their Coronavirus plans- see this Texas Monthly feature.
posted by zamboni at 6:51 AM on April 11, 2020


While I have no doubt that the Butts [1] are exploiting their anti-COVID measures for maximum possible positive press, they really did apparently get stuff put in place sooner than many other chains. They'd had their limited customers at a time, special hours for the elderly, 6 foot separation, and transparent partitions going on for over a week when I was seeing news stories about stores in NYC **FINALLY** getting around to considering limiting the number of customers in the store.

As near as I can tell they really were taking many anti-COVID measures before other stores were.

[1] HEB is owned by the Butt family. The chain is named after the founder, Howard Edward Butt. Immature people like me call it the Butt Store and snicker.
posted by sotonohito at 6:59 AM on April 11, 2020 [4 favorites]


the soonest I can get an order set for curbside pickup is a 10 days from now.

Yeah, this is the crazy part. Imagine how much safer it would be (for both workers and customers) for your local supermarket to go ALL pick-up and delivery, yet delivery is still treated like a luxury product. Honestly I think it would make sense for the government to subsidize it and even contribute logistical support (e.g. the national guard handles the last mile.)
posted by anhedonic at 7:14 AM on April 11, 2020


my spouse insists on calling it ButtMart and giggling, sotonohito
posted by sciatrix at 9:45 AM on April 11, 2020 [1 favorite]


I find the responses along the lines of "other stores are no better, why the hate on TJ's specifically, it's an industry-wide problem" rather puzzling. My family basically stopped shopping anywhere other than TJ's, not just because their products are generally high quality and the prices are generally reasonable, but also because of the reputation they've had for treating their employees well. Seeing them engaging in union-busting, and hearing anecdotes here and from friends IRL who have worked there that the squeaky-clean image appears to be at odds with the company's actual practices is worth highlighting, even if other chains engage in similar behavior.

It's precisely because of TJ's reputation that these activities should be highlighted, not because they're uniquely bad, and not to knock them down a peg, but to challenge them to live up to the lofty image they've cultivated. I imagine we will go back to shopping there at least occasionally once COVID-19 restrictions are lifted, but if they continue this pattern of union-busting and treating workers poorly, we will begin to lean more heavily on other stores when we have the option to do so.
posted by tonycpsu at 9:46 AM on April 11, 2020 [11 favorites]


My brother has been a TJ's employee for years now, and his wife (a history PhD) became one a few months ago. Until recently I kept hearing that TJ's was a pretty good place to work. That seems to have fallen apart lately. They still don't have plexiglass shields, because the card readers are at the register and cashiers still have to handle customers' cards directly. It's ridiculous and frustrating.
posted by Foosnark at 10:07 AM on April 11, 2020


One of my concerns about the $2/hr hazard pay has been that it's not even offsetting a reduction in store hours. Around us (Philly-ish), most retail stores that are still open have cut back their hours 2-4 hours per day. I would imagine take-home is lower for many employees even with the small hourly increase.
posted by sockshaveholes at 3:15 PM on April 11, 2020 [1 favorite]


Hmm, here in LA Trader Joes seems to be the only grocery store taking it seriously. Certainly much much better than Ralphs or Sprouts, anyway.

I'd do delivery if it was available, but it basically isn't possible to schedule delivery right now as there are never slots available at the few stores that will even do it (and certainly not going to use Instacart or w/e).

We're just limiting to once a week max (ideally once every two weeks) and doing TJ as much as possible. Definitely sad they are not doing as well by their employees as I hoped, but from a shoppers perspective I don't know a better alternative right now.
posted by thefoxgod at 6:12 PM on April 11, 2020


It's precisely because of TJ's reputation that these activities should be highlighted, not because they're uniquely bad, and not to knock them down a peg, but to challenge them to live up to the lofty image they've cultivated. I imagine we will go back to shopping there at least occasionally once COVID-19 restrictions are lifted, but if they continue this pattern of union-busting and treating workers poorly, we will begin to lean more heavily on other stores when we have the option to do so.

Meh. The thing about that lofty image is that it's been willfully believed by so many well intentioned folks without any particular reason. Other than they're not the big guys like Safeway and Kroger. Same with Costco, which people here have rhapsodized about in the past for reasons. Even though I personally know a couple of people who've worked there and have less glowing opinions about the company. I've long ago stopped shopping for virtue. It's always an illusion in one way or another. It's just a business transaction, and there's always asymmetrical information. Do what you can, do what's good for you, and don't agonize over it.

One of my concerns about the $2/hr hazard pay has been that it's not even offsetting a reduction in store hours. Around us (Philly-ish), most retail stores that are still open have cut back their hours 2-4 hours per day. I would imagine take-home is lower for many employees even with the small hourly increase.

I'm not exactly concerned about this. Even with greater hazard pay, it's nice to be still working when so many others are not. I'm not sure how to complain with the $2 amount. How much is enough? Is it ever? Is any amount enough if one becomes infected and dies?


I work(ed) for what most customers probably think of as a small business which sells food and technically falls into a category of business that can stay open in my city right now. The owners decided to close because business dropped off sharply. And you know what? I will be getting significantly more from state unemployment + the federal supplement to unemployment ($600/week) than I was earning at work.


eeek.... I can hear Republican talking points being validated... Young bucks on the dole, FTW!
posted by 2N2222 at 11:04 PM on April 11, 2020


> Meh. The thing about that lofty image is that it's been willfully believed by so many well intentioned folks without any particular reason.

I don't know what "willfully believed" means, but the idea that there's no distinction at all between different businesses engaging in different levels of bad behavior is complete nonsense.

"There is no ethical consumption under capitalism" is not a koan to be uttered when trying to absolve oneself of the responsibility to make better choices -- it's a way to morally reckon with choosing the lesser evil while not forgetting that it's still evil. Knowing that both Uber and Lyft exploit their workers doesn't mean I flip a coin when deciding who to use. Instead, I find out what I can about their business practices and choose the one that seems marginally better. Maybe I'm wrong -- maybe Lyft is just better at PR -- but over time, I feel like consumers trying to choose the option that's one percent or one tenth of one percent better will lead to better outcomes.

If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but it takes very little of my time to try.
posted by tonycpsu at 7:21 AM on April 12, 2020 [5 favorites]


I should note that my experience at Trader Joes is not universal, and that I have had a whole bunch of time to think about all this back when I was stocking shelves at night or unloading the truck before dawn.

I worked in the midwest region (as defined by how far NSF could do JIT from it's Chicago warehouse) and worked with many folks from Illinois and Indiana, and was trained by folks from the Boston region. I'll tell you the "TJ's University" is about the saddest thing, someone somewhere had read a book about Toyota and kaizen was going to be their entire management philosophy.

The TJ's operation I was involved with was very much a cargo cult: if I re-arrange my section like this other staffer did - they got promoted! so I'll get promoted!! That forced cheery disposition got him promoted! Engage MAXIMUM CHEER. Half our full time staff burned out after the holidays? Lets open a new store!! PROMOTION promotion! That manic energy is desperation to get that golden ticket.

Staff turn over at my store was over generally 50%. One year we hit 80% - note that doesn't mean 80% were new hires - it means that for about 40% of the staff - they wouldn't last 1/2 a year. So only the true believers stuck it out. Our store wasn't even the worst in the region. We had several full timers who 'retired' to part time because they had burned out. Pushing folks over the holidays had the happy result of reducing head count in the slower new year, now that's some kaizen.

TJs wants desperately to be seen as a neighborhood grocery store, with it's handmade signs and folksy staff. But none of my co-workers could afford to live where our store was located, and the management all lived way out in the burbs. The full timers all transferred from another location. The local Target gave more back to the community. It took years just to get bread that wasn't shipped in from Boston. It's a sham, it's as local as an Aldi's. TJ's original competition was 7-11, and when I think of TJ as just a 7-11 grocery store and reset my expectations I'm not surprised when they don't have a staple in stock, or the size of the parking lot.

If you can land a regular shift and regular duties with a regular manager, it's just a modern part time job. Some of the people I trained are still there, and successful, but most burned out, or got a gig at Costco. TJ's wasn't the worst place I worked, but in my last year there whenever I picked the stocking music it always started off with "Big Rock Candy Mountain".

Many folks within TJ's corp office wanted to move or return out west, especially to the NoCal region and up in the Pacific North West. And I heard stories of a promised land of reasonable expectations and time frames, hours that respected you as a human. Who doesn't dream a better tomorrow is possible? Myself, I am very glad I woke up and had a different path available.
posted by zenon at 9:54 AM on April 13, 2020 [4 favorites]


Maybe I'm wrong -- maybe Lyft is just better at PR -- but over time, I feel like consumers trying to choose the option that's one percent or one tenth of one percent better will lead to better outcomes.

I disagree. I believe trying to assess the impacts of corporations based on the information publicly available is a variant of Engineer's Disease. You have access to minimal information and - likely - minimal expertise in the ways and hows corporations can obfuscate underlying economic realities.

Groceries have to pay for the costs they incur. Almost all costs are set by the conditions dictated by their brick and mortar location (inventory to sell, utilities, supplies, contractors to build buildings, etc), and what they have to disclose to you about the actual economic reality is minimal. Their margins are also miniscule. Which means a smaller margin for error. The main controllable expense, by design, is personnel expense. All the other externalizable costs have already been externalized by the companies contracted with to get the thing that was necessary to be a grocery (again, the supply chain for inventory, your utilities vendor, supplies vendor, contractors,etc); there are no natural resources to loot, so the people there are all there are to exploit. You're competing in the open market with Amazon and Walmart. Costs are costs.

This is why one of the first things Columinate[1] will tell you as a cooperative grocer is you have to get personnel costs down (the first thing will probably be to join National Cooperative Grocers so as to use collective bargaining to attain lower prices on inventory). This is why KPIs like Sales Per Labor Hour (SPLH) are utilized for countless cooperatives across the country. They need $XXXX in sales for $XXX in labor, otherwise they literally won't be able to pay the mortgage on the store. Whether their heart would've been in the right place will not enter the equation.

That's why it's impossible to know whether $2 of hazard pay to employees correlates with decreased employer premiums at the next enrollment, or an increased copay, or fewer covered pre-existing conditions, or dental being *optional*, or increased premiums for family members, or less PTO rolling forward to be used next year, or fewer knife sharpeners, or fewer accommodations for people with disabilities, or less overtime offered, or fewer full-time positions, etc, etc, etc.

The system itself is designed this way. Any grocery store has to decide specifically how it will extract profits from its employees. It's literally "pick your poison."

If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but it takes very little of my time to try.

Except you're proselytizing.


[1] The consultants of choice for all NCG cooperatives (i.e. the likely consultants for your local grocery cooperative)
posted by avalonian at 3:31 PM on April 13, 2020 [5 favorites]


> Except you're proselytizing.

We're debating the pros and cons of responding to what might be weak signals of a company's business practices, and whether that can produce better outcomes. It seems kind of uncharitable to call that "proselytizing", but I suspect the impetus for this escalation isn't coming from anything I've said in this thread, so it's probably not productive to dig into that any further.

To be clear: I don't care where you or anyone else shops, and I'm extremely skeptical toward the ability for individuals to solve collective action problems without government help. However, your thin profit margins argument cuts both ways, in that it limits the number of things stores and chains can do that aren't purely in pursuit of profit, but it also makes them extremely receptive to small variances in shopping behavior, since people can easily substitute one store for another, and very small changes can have a large impact on the profitability of a store.

Consequently, if I know one chain has been proven to be union-busting and another hasn't, that doesn't mean the other isn't (unless they're unionized, of course, which is probably public information) but it does mean that the company is engaging in a hostile activity toward a group that is fighting to lift up wages and improve conditions.

Maybe that's just what that chain has to do to survive and still return profit numbers that are acceptable to their owners, but there's always room for trying things a different way. Whole Foods found a way to be more profitable than most grocery chains by differentiating themselves, TJ's themselves can thank a different approach to marketing, store design, and supply chain management for their rapid growth, and we've seen companies in other industries succeed in crowded industries with thin margins when nobody said they could. Over time, competitors will steal their ideas and those margins will fall, but until that happens, there's some slack in the profit numbers that can go to paying for fucking masks and gloves, or hazard pay, or whatever.

Responding to these weak signals can't possibly be worse than picking a competitor at random, or based on which one is a half a mile closer, or based on which one's corporate logo I like in the long run. If a store can't exist without a union workforce, then maybe it shouldn't exist.
posted by tonycpsu at 2:06 PM on April 14, 2020 [1 favorite]


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