The mystery of faith
April 12, 2020 8:31 AM Subscribe
Anybody want to hear about how a Catholic church had me, a nice Jewish kid, re-write their Passion Week play and I inadvertently got the parish hooked on 3rd century Gnostic heresies?Afikomen Valentín @ai_valentin from Twitter
Is this a double? I know I've seen it before. Maybe not here though. Still epic!
posted by emjaybee at 8:51 AM on April 12, 2020
posted by emjaybee at 8:51 AM on April 12, 2020
I really, really want to see texts of these monologues and the letters from the archbishop. I'm not disbelieving, I just would love to read them.
posted by Countess Elena at 8:52 AM on April 12, 2020 [9 favorites]
posted by Countess Elena at 8:52 AM on April 12, 2020 [9 favorites]
I’m listening to the 13th Floor Elevators “Easter Everywhere” and decided I should read the Encyclopedia Brittanica entry on Christianity and Mystery Religions. How and why they both arose at the same time. How the latter prepared the ground for the former to spread. (Roman ubiquity, mystery religions, shared culture and the near universality of Greek philosophy at that time.) I quite literally closed that link which ended on a note about one of the first christian bishops being a Chaldean gnostic. Then clicked over to MeFi and saw this post. Spooky. Oh well, back to the couch now for yet another whole day and even more coffee while I read the linked twitter thread.
posted by Conrad-Casserole at 9:00 AM on April 12, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by Conrad-Casserole at 9:00 AM on April 12, 2020 [3 favorites]
You know I was raised Protestant because we had an actual abbreviated production of Jesus Christ Superstar for our passion play one year.
posted by muddgirl at 9:02 AM on April 12, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by muddgirl at 9:02 AM on April 12, 2020 [1 favorite]
Is this a double? I know I've seen it before. Maybe not here though. Still epic!
Yeah, this is oddly familiar. I feel like it was in a video or podcast or something maybe?
posted by Foosnark at 9:18 AM on April 12, 2020
Yeah, this is oddly familiar. I feel like it was in a video or podcast or something maybe?
posted by Foosnark at 9:18 AM on April 12, 2020
I really, really want to see texts of these monologues and the letters from the archbishop. I'm not disbelieving, I just would love to read them.
I'm disbelieving, but that's because I don't believe anyLive Journal Twitter story that ends with all the bad people angry and all the good people applauding.
I do find it very possible that they watched Jesus Christ Superstar too many times and turned their Jesus/Judas fanfic into a play for CCD because that tends to happen with Catholic theatre kids.
posted by betweenthebars at 9:21 AM on April 12, 2020 [15 favorites]
I'm disbelieving, but that's because I don't believe any
I do find it very possible that they watched Jesus Christ Superstar too many times and turned their Jesus/Judas fanfic into a play for CCD because that tends to happen with Catholic theatre kids.
posted by betweenthebars at 9:21 AM on April 12, 2020 [15 favorites]
Jesus Christ Superstar too many times and turned their Jesus/Judas fanfic
Half of the productions I have seen of JCS are just plain Jesus/Judas fanfic.
posted by jeather at 9:24 AM on April 12, 2020 [2 favorites]
Half of the productions I have seen of JCS are just plain Jesus/Judas fanfic.
posted by jeather at 9:24 AM on April 12, 2020 [2 favorites]
I'm no Catholic theologian, but I was raised Catholic and went to Catholic school for 15 years and I'm not seeing the problem with having the betrayal as a necessary part of God's plan. Also, I have no memory of Jesus Christ Superstar, but I remember watching it, in Catholic school, as part of being part of the choir. This would have been maybe grade 3 or 4. Is it heretical?
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 9:26 AM on April 12, 2020 [6 favorites]
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 9:26 AM on April 12, 2020 [6 favorites]
I always amazed at how conservative Catholics seem to be south of the border. This literally would not have been an issue for my Catholics. The best it would elicit would be an eyeroll and some confusion. But I will say a lot of the razzle dazzle musicals like Jesus Christ Superstar & Technicolor Dreamcoat were always way too Protestant for us. We're more of a Jesus of Nazareth crowd. And we don't do the "youth group" stuff.
posted by Ashwagandha at 9:29 AM on April 12, 2020 [5 favorites]
posted by Ashwagandha at 9:29 AM on April 12, 2020 [5 favorites]
If this sounds familiar, it's probably because it's suspiciously similar to Borges' Three Versions of Judas.
posted by verstegan at 9:31 AM on April 12, 2020 [13 favorites]
posted by verstegan at 9:31 AM on April 12, 2020 [13 favorites]
See also the recent comic version by Jeff Loveness and Jakub Rebelka.
posted by Flannery Culp at 9:41 AM on April 12, 2020
posted by Flannery Culp at 9:41 AM on April 12, 2020
I'm disbelieving, but that's because I don't believe any Live Journal Twitter story that ends with all the bad people angry and all the good people applauding.
I do find it very possible that they watched Jesus Christ Superstar too many times and turned their Jesus/Judas fanfic into a play for CCD because that tends to happen with Catholic theatre kids.
The first thing that made me think the story is exaggerated, at least, is when he gets "kicked out of CCD" for asking too complicated of questions. I went to CCD and Catholic School, I remember people (and myself) asking a question or two that made teachers uncomfortable. Nobody got kicked out. Catholics aren't against children asking questions. It's possible this person's experience was different, or it's possible his "complicated questions" were more disruptive than complicated (like, if he used crude language or if he wouldn't let the teacher move on after his question wasn't answered to his satisfaction).
But aside from that, while I haven't been Catholic in a long while, I don't remember Jesus Christ Superstar being some taboo play. Nor does his interpretation seem that wild to me - except perhaps Mary Magdalene not being a reformed prostitute.
posted by Stargazey at 9:56 AM on April 12, 2020 [8 favorites]
I do find it very possible that they watched Jesus Christ Superstar too many times and turned their Jesus/Judas fanfic into a play for CCD because that tends to happen with Catholic theatre kids.
The first thing that made me think the story is exaggerated, at least, is when he gets "kicked out of CCD" for asking too complicated of questions. I went to CCD and Catholic School, I remember people (and myself) asking a question or two that made teachers uncomfortable. Nobody got kicked out. Catholics aren't against children asking questions. It's possible this person's experience was different, or it's possible his "complicated questions" were more disruptive than complicated (like, if he used crude language or if he wouldn't let the teacher move on after his question wasn't answered to his satisfaction).
But aside from that, while I haven't been Catholic in a long while, I don't remember Jesus Christ Superstar being some taboo play. Nor does his interpretation seem that wild to me - except perhaps Mary Magdalene not being a reformed prostitute.
posted by Stargazey at 9:56 AM on April 12, 2020 [8 favorites]
Similar - maybe it happened, maybe it didn't, but good for a giggle.
posted by Candleman at 10:01 AM on April 12, 2020
posted by Candleman at 10:01 AM on April 12, 2020
American-christianity is a good market.
posted by pompomtom at 10:01 AM on April 12, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by pompomtom at 10:01 AM on April 12, 2020 [1 favorite]
it's possible his "complicated questions" were more disruptive than complicated... (...he wouldn't let the teacher move on after his question wasn't answered to his satisfaction)
That's my read of it as well. In my classes in high school we watched stuff like Last Temptation of Christ and Jésus de Montréal and discussed punk songs that talked about Jesus as well stuff like the 10th Century popes. So we covered a lot of ground. No one got kicked out unless they were highly disruptive, like taking a swing at the teacher (which did happen). It is a universal church but there always seems to be a lot of variation between communities and individuals.
posted by Ashwagandha at 10:09 AM on April 12, 2020 [11 favorites]
That's my read of it as well. In my classes in high school we watched stuff like Last Temptation of Christ and Jésus de Montréal and discussed punk songs that talked about Jesus as well stuff like the 10th Century popes. So we covered a lot of ground. No one got kicked out unless they were highly disruptive, like taking a swing at the teacher (which did happen). It is a universal church but there always seems to be a lot of variation between communities and individuals.
posted by Ashwagandha at 10:09 AM on April 12, 2020 [11 favorites]
Yeah, I am not sure I believe parts of this but it’s still a funny story! Also, Jesuits would have been 100% down.
posted by corb at 10:16 AM on April 12, 2020 [5 favorites]
posted by corb at 10:16 AM on April 12, 2020 [5 favorites]
I really, really want to see texts of these monologues and the letters from the archbishop. I'm not disbelieving, I just would love to read them.
I'm dying to see the "LIST OF HERESIES"
posted by mikelieman at 10:28 AM on April 12, 2020 [4 favorites]
I'm dying to see the "LIST OF HERESIES"
posted by mikelieman at 10:28 AM on April 12, 2020 [4 favorites]
roy harper had it down in 1969 - funny how this idea keeps coming up
posted by pyramid termite at 11:16 AM on April 12, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by pyramid termite at 11:16 AM on April 12, 2020 [1 favorite]
For more Easter humor, a Metafilter flashback:
"Is this where the cannibalism happens?"
January 15, 2018 11:29 AM
The 1969 Easter Mass Incident.
posted by Mesaverdian at 11:39 AM on April 12, 2020 [1 favorite]
"Is this where the cannibalism happens?"
January 15, 2018 11:29 AM
The 1969 Easter Mass Incident.
posted by Mesaverdian at 11:39 AM on April 12, 2020 [1 favorite]
Leon Rosselson Stand Up for Judas
posted by GenjiandProust at 12:37 PM on April 12, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by GenjiandProust at 12:37 PM on April 12, 2020 [1 favorite]
I got shown Jesus Christ Superstar multiple times in Catholic School (it was a liberal Catholic School, but still just a plain old diocesan high school). We also put on productions of Godspell and Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat. Catholic theater kids indeed.
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:37 PM on April 12, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by soren_lorensen at 5:37 PM on April 12, 2020 [1 favorite]
My friends were the Catholic boys in the girls' schools plays. I forget which play it was, but we threw my pal Tommy into the audience to dramatize the condemnation of Judas. It was funny and blasphemous at the time; nowadays it just seems like another depressing reminder that the girls' schools' programs were so underfunded and neglected compared to the boys' schools
posted by eustatic at 1:55 AM on April 13, 2020
posted by eustatic at 1:55 AM on April 13, 2020
This would bookend nicely with the Kenny Loggins Nativity Play.
posted by Naberius at 5:38 AM on April 13, 2020
posted by Naberius at 5:38 AM on April 13, 2020
Half of the productions I have seen of JCS are just plain Jesus/Judas fanfic.
They kiss, it's canon. Literally canon.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 11:40 AM on April 13, 2020 [2 favorites]
They kiss, it's canon. Literally canon.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 11:40 AM on April 13, 2020 [2 favorites]
Yeah, I am not sure I believe parts of this but it’s still a funny story! Also, Jesuits would have been 100% down.
There are many old-school priests still out there, and I can absolutely see this story as possible. Hell, one of the priests in my church devoted a whole sermon to how awful Scorcese's Last Temptation Of Christ was and urging us all to boycott it.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:22 AM on April 14, 2020
There are many old-school priests still out there, and I can absolutely see this story as possible. Hell, one of the priests in my church devoted a whole sermon to how awful Scorcese's Last Temptation Of Christ was and urging us all to boycott it.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:22 AM on April 14, 2020
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posted by Flannery Culp at 8:42 AM on April 12, 2020 [2 favorites]