"So what can you do? Well, probably not very much."
April 17, 2020 7:37 AM Subscribe
(this is fucking delightful and I'm so happy you shared it)
posted by aspersioncast at 7:46 AM on April 17, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by aspersioncast at 7:46 AM on April 17, 2020 [3 favorites]
Cool story but can it run Doom
posted by Doleful Creature at 7:56 AM on April 17, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by Doleful Creature at 7:56 AM on April 17, 2020 [4 favorites]
Reminder that you could probably bury a Raspberry Pi Zero Plus in the interface box and give it the semblance of the world's clunkiest workstation. And also, with an RPi0+ core, it'd be a bit more powerful than a 1980s Cray X-MP supercomputer.
posted by cstross at 8:21 AM on April 17, 2020 [8 favorites]
posted by cstross at 8:21 AM on April 17, 2020 [8 favorites]
> Cool story but can it run Doom
Might have to tweak AAlib a bit to work with the 5-bit charset and the refresh rate would be horrible but I don't see why not.
posted by genpfault at 8:38 AM on April 17, 2020 [5 favorites]
Might have to tweak AAlib a bit to work with the 5-bit charset and the refresh rate would be horrible but I don't see why not.
posted by genpfault at 8:38 AM on April 17, 2020 [5 favorites]
'imagine writing UNIX using only ed' ... yea okay, if that's how UNIX was written they deserve that National Medal of Technology.
posted by pwnguin at 9:11 AM on April 17, 2020
posted by pwnguin at 9:11 AM on April 17, 2020
sudo rm -fr *(Un)Fortunately outwitted by the fact that the keyboard has no asterisk key
posted by ckape at 9:13 AM on April 17, 2020 [5 favorites]
He said there was no backslash, but maybe he could remap another character to backslash and then super tediously enter special characters using escape codes? The Bash escape code
I'm not sure if that trick would work with
posted by jedicus at 9:25 AM on April 17, 2020 [4 favorites]
\nnn turns octal-encoded ASCII into the corresponding character, so sudo rm -fr \052 could work. I'm not sure if that trick would work with
ed though. Editing might have to be done using output redirection, and of course the teletype couldn't print any of these special characters, so it would practically be write-only.posted by jedicus at 9:25 AM on April 17, 2020 [4 favorites]
The logical next step is to shrink all that wiring and circuitry, swap the computer for a Raspberry Pi, and mount it all inside the Teletype.
posted by ckape at 9:43 AM on April 17, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by ckape at 9:43 AM on April 17, 2020 [1 favorite]
5bit retro-computing is the new 8bit retro-computing.
posted by 3j0hn at 10:09 AM on April 17, 2020 [7 favorites]
posted by 3j0hn at 10:09 AM on April 17, 2020 [7 favorites]
Thankfully that legal disclaimer was short. Imagine accidentally opening up a modern EULA.
posted by curious nu at 10:10 AM on April 17, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by curious nu at 10:10 AM on April 17, 2020 [4 favorites]
Did a solid double take at the Electroboom cameo.
posted by mhoye at 10:18 AM on April 17, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by mhoye at 10:18 AM on April 17, 2020 [2 favorites]
Awesome. Though was waiting for others on the system to start trolling him with write/talk messages to his TTY.
posted by inflatablekiwi at 10:34 AM on April 17, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by inflatablekiwi at 10:34 AM on April 17, 2020 [1 favorite]
He could've tried viewing web pages with a text-only browser, albeit in a non-interactive mode. (Cool tho!)
posted by XMLicious at 10:48 AM on April 17, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by XMLicious at 10:48 AM on April 17, 2020 [1 favorite]
I was just horrified at the 2.6.x kernel he was running …
A friend wrote one of the first microcomputer games (MicroChess on the KIM-1) using a TTY just like that one. I'm surprised he has any hearing left at all. Later models, like the Model 43 from 1977, were quite refined.
posted by scruss at 10:53 AM on April 17, 2020 [1 favorite]
A friend wrote one of the first microcomputer games (MicroChess on the KIM-1) using a TTY just like that one. I'm surprised he has any hearing left at all. Later models, like the Model 43 from 1977, were quite refined.
posted by scruss at 10:53 AM on April 17, 2020 [1 favorite]
What is so comforting about watching a how-to video about something you know you'll never do?
Like 16 minutes of something that would be of practical use to me? BORING.
16 minutes of stuff like this? Let's watch it twice!
posted by MCMikeNamara at 10:56 AM on April 17, 2020 [10 favorites]
Like 16 minutes of something that would be of practical use to me? BORING.
16 minutes of stuff like this? Let's watch it twice!
posted by MCMikeNamara at 10:56 AM on April 17, 2020 [10 favorites]
Surely rm -rf / would do?
And to be extra evil:
rm -vrf /
But that leads to more time to ^C, so this might confuse things enough to do real damage:
rm -vrf / &
I actually did do rm -rf from a very bad place on Linux once. While on a modem. I did ^C before the system was totally dead. And I accomplished my most `leet hacking by uploading the missing files from my personal Linux system. Somehow, the system ended up working after that.
posted by jclarkin at 11:00 AM on April 17, 2020 [6 favorites]
And to be extra evil:
rm -vrf /
But that leads to more time to ^C, so this might confuse things enough to do real damage:
rm -vrf / &
I actually did do rm -rf from a very bad place on Linux once. While on a modem. I did ^C before the system was totally dead. And I accomplished my most `leet hacking by uploading the missing files from my personal Linux system. Somehow, the system ended up working after that.
posted by jclarkin at 11:00 AM on April 17, 2020 [6 favorites]
I'd love to work through some dependency issues on that thing.
posted by TrialByMedia at 11:02 AM on April 17, 2020
posted by TrialByMedia at 11:02 AM on April 17, 2020
Seeing this, it finally clicked for me why the default in 'ls' is to print across the page instead of down.
posted by ArgentCorvid at 11:30 AM on April 17, 2020 [10 favorites]
posted by ArgentCorvid at 11:30 AM on April 17, 2020 [10 favorites]
I really wish I knew an electrical engineering aficionado with soldering skills type and/or had the time to teach myself how to do wonderful things like this via soldering or other small circuit building boards. Combine that with welding and sheet metal skills, maybe a dash of milling machine ability or 3d printer access/laser cutter availability and I could rule the world.
No, no there isn't a makerspace near me, why do you ask?
posted by RolandOfEld at 11:40 AM on April 17, 2020 [2 favorites]
No, no there isn't a makerspace near me, why do you ask?
posted by RolandOfEld at 11:40 AM on April 17, 2020 [2 favorites]
Ah, memories of accidentally logging in with caps-lock on and hitting the all caps mode. I think actual caps were like \SUN. Total PITA. And using ed all the time on the teletypes used as the consoles for the servers. Need to make a quick fix to a backup configuration file... you're using ed and you're flailing about is going to be captured on paper and circled in red and passed off to the next shift.
I sorta miss the days of rows of teletypes with fan-fold paper buzzing in the background. As long as they don't go all angry-bees things are going OK. Something goes angry-bees means something bad is happening.
posted by zengargoyle at 11:53 AM on April 17, 2020 [5 favorites]
I sorta miss the days of rows of teletypes with fan-fold paper buzzing in the background. As long as they don't go all angry-bees things are going OK. Something goes angry-bees means something bad is happening.
posted by zengargoyle at 11:53 AM on April 17, 2020 [5 favorites]
The default of `ls` is to print down. If you wanted columns you piped it through some other program that made columns.
If you want to watch someone build circuits, check out some of Ben Eater's videos. Maybe start with The world's worst video card?.
posted by zengargoyle at 12:03 PM on April 17, 2020 [1 favorite]
If you want to watch someone build circuits, check out some of Ben Eater's videos. Maybe start with The world's worst video card?.
posted by zengargoyle at 12:03 PM on April 17, 2020 [1 favorite]
I did realize a bit back that the reason why old-school BASIC has line numbering is for use with a teletype (and some early electronic interfaces were also set up so they couldn't go back to a previous character or line). I've still never actually managed to use BASIC on a machine where that is useful, though.
posted by ckape at 1:33 PM on April 17, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by ckape at 1:33 PM on April 17, 2020 [2 favorites]
I used to hear early linux enthusiasts talk about how much more efficient linux was, because of the abbreviated commands. "rm" instead of "Remove"! "ls" instead of "list"! So much faster once you get to know it!
I recently read "UNIX: A History And A Memoir" by Brian Kernighan, and it turns out that the reason so many unix commands were abbreviated was that the keyboards of the day were just awful by modern standards, just an ergonomic disaster, and that they hurt to type on after a couple of minutes.
posted by mhoye at 2:08 PM on April 17, 2020 [3 favorites]
I recently read "UNIX: A History And A Memoir" by Brian Kernighan, and it turns out that the reason so many unix commands were abbreviated was that the keyboards of the day were just awful by modern standards, just an ergonomic disaster, and that they hurt to type on after a couple of minutes.
posted by mhoye at 2:08 PM on April 17, 2020 [3 favorites]
it turns out that the reason so many unix commands were abbreviated was that the keyboards of the day were just awful by modern standards
Checks out.
posted by sjswitzer at 3:59 PM on April 17, 2020
Checks out.
posted by sjswitzer at 3:59 PM on April 17, 2020
my eye was drawn to that weird luggable PAC 65, never heard of those before...and wouldn't you know it, curiousmarc is the top hit when you google "PAC 65"
https://www.curiousmarc.com/computing/dolchpac-65-luggable-pc
Turns out it's not just a weird curio but it plays a key role in his work, it's old enough to have a bunch of useful legacy interfaces and new enough to play on his network. it's a great bridge machine.
I want something like this, but only semiannually when I want to grab data from old floppies, so I've never fixed up something like it. mine would be a boring beige PC box though, not a sexy luggable from the nineties.
posted by Sauce Trough at 5:50 PM on April 17, 2020 [1 favorite]
https://www.curiousmarc.com/computing/dolchpac-65-luggable-pc
Turns out it's not just a weird curio but it plays a key role in his work, it's old enough to have a bunch of useful legacy interfaces and new enough to play on his network. it's a great bridge machine.
I want something like this, but only semiannually when I want to grab data from old floppies, so I've never fixed up something like it. mine would be a boring beige PC box though, not a sexy luggable from the nineties.
posted by Sauce Trough at 5:50 PM on April 17, 2020 [1 favorite]
and also shout out to the mechanical engineers who implemented a high reliability 48-baud 5-bit decoder entirely in hardware.
real hardware, not the fake kind we talk about today.
posted by Sauce Trough at 5:53 PM on April 17, 2020 [7 favorites]
real hardware, not the fake kind we talk about today.
posted by Sauce Trough at 5:53 PM on April 17, 2020 [7 favorites]
> "and also shout out to the mechanical engineers who implemented a high reliability 48-baud 5-bit decoder entirely in hardware."
This. So very much this.
I think I've mentioned before, but I was trained to do basic workshop servicing of teletypes (well, Siemens M100's mostly, but a couple of Creed & occasionally Teletype models) right at the tail end of the Telex era in the mid-late 80's. By that stage the sort of regular daily/weekly/monthly/yearly user maintenance the manuals stated was necessary had long gone by the way; most machines in service were lucky to get a quick wipe-over to clean the dust off the case once a year.
90% of the work - we'd get one or two machines in a week, out of something like a well over a thousand scattered across the state, and eventually the country - was on machines that hadn't been serviced, or seemingly even cleaned, in a couple of decades. Most of them would start right up again when you cleaned a bit of paper dust out of a few critical areas; the odd one would need the fibre gear replaced after it had done its job and sacrificed itself to protect the rest of the mechanism from being jammed up with paper dust. Very very occasionally you might replace a worn or broken pawl or latch-bar or something.
We gave each one a full strip-down, inspection, clean-oil-and-dag, and alignment service anyway. I don't recall ever seeing a major component with appreciable wear, at least in the M100's which predominated, even after 20 or more years of near-continuous, 8~12hrs/day service.
Those fuckers just ran forever, and will outlast cockroaches.
posted by Pinback at 7:21 PM on April 17, 2020 [9 favorites]
This. So very much this.
I think I've mentioned before, but I was trained to do basic workshop servicing of teletypes (well, Siemens M100's mostly, but a couple of Creed & occasionally Teletype models) right at the tail end of the Telex era in the mid-late 80's. By that stage the sort of regular daily/weekly/monthly/yearly user maintenance the manuals stated was necessary had long gone by the way; most machines in service were lucky to get a quick wipe-over to clean the dust off the case once a year.
90% of the work - we'd get one or two machines in a week, out of something like a well over a thousand scattered across the state, and eventually the country - was on machines that hadn't been serviced, or seemingly even cleaned, in a couple of decades. Most of them would start right up again when you cleaned a bit of paper dust out of a few critical areas; the odd one would need the fibre gear replaced after it had done its job and sacrificed itself to protect the rest of the mechanism from being jammed up with paper dust. Very very occasionally you might replace a worn or broken pawl or latch-bar or something.
We gave each one a full strip-down, inspection, clean-oil-and-dag, and alignment service anyway. I don't recall ever seeing a major component with appreciable wear, at least in the M100's which predominated, even after 20 or more years of near-continuous, 8~12hrs/day service.
Those fuckers just ran forever, and will outlast cockroaches.
posted by Pinback at 7:21 PM on April 17, 2020 [9 favorites]
Yeah, the old time engineering that still works is somewhat amazing. I've inherited a 20's or earlier? era nickel slot machine passed down from my grandfather's gas station. That I spent hours playing that thing and poking around the insides growing up 40 years ago and that while it sits in a closet way back home... I'm sure it still works. The whole spin the wheels and keep coins and pay out winnings analog mechanism of the inside of the thing is just an amazing collection of springs and levers and rods and clockwork mechanisms. After all these years, I can still imagine all of those inner workings that need a nickel and pulling down the arm until it goes WEEEEEE CLUNK CLUNK CLUNK and deposits nickles if you got lucky.
It's indescribably amazing to watch from the open backside and figure out how it knows what ended up in the window and how many nickles go give you. Those people long ago... built some amazing stuff that still works perfectly almost a century later.
posted by zengargoyle at 7:54 PM on April 17, 2020
It's indescribably amazing to watch from the open backside and figure out how it knows what ended up in the window and how many nickles go give you. Those people long ago... built some amazing stuff that still works perfectly almost a century later.
posted by zengargoyle at 7:54 PM on April 17, 2020
I was sad to see that his getty didn't support all caps mode. I could have sworn that the serial code could handle 5 bit encoding given the necessary hardware and that there was at one point support for a tty using the baudot character set at one time. Last time I looked that closely was when Slackware CDs came in the back of many books/magazines, Linux 1.2.8 was fresh, and building your own kernel was almost a necessity to have reasonably complete use of your computer's hardware.
Even if I'm right and an older distribution could have made the interface a little easier, Marc is several orders of magnitude more capable than I ever could be. His recent atomic clock stuff is a sight to behold.
And yes, mechanical/analog "computers" are fantastic feats of engineering. In some sense, they are even more amazing than modern integrated circuits, because they can be seen and readily understood by most humans. Even if you do have access to an electron microscope so you can see the features on a modern IC (or even a MEMS device), you still can't see the mechanism in action.
posted by wierdo at 8:00 PM on April 17, 2020 [1 favorite]
Even if I'm right and an older distribution could have made the interface a little easier, Marc is several orders of magnitude more capable than I ever could be. His recent atomic clock stuff is a sight to behold.
And yes, mechanical/analog "computers" are fantastic feats of engineering. In some sense, they are even more amazing than modern integrated circuits, because they can be seen and readily understood by most humans. Even if you do have access to an electron microscope so you can see the features on a modern IC (or even a MEMS device), you still can't see the mechanism in action.
posted by wierdo at 8:00 PM on April 17, 2020 [1 favorite]
That 'World's Worst Video Card" video is great. Thanks zengargoyle.
posted by Sauce Trough at 12:18 AM on April 18, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by Sauce Trough at 12:18 AM on April 18, 2020 [2 favorites]
He runs crunchbang linux which is no longer supported. I have crunchbang++ on a machine here.
posted by Obscure Reference at 5:02 AM on April 18, 2020
posted by Obscure Reference at 5:02 AM on April 18, 2020
Steampunk Linux.
posted by prepmonkey at 9:42 AM on April 20, 2020
posted by prepmonkey at 9:42 AM on April 20, 2020
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posted by aspersioncast at 7:42 AM on April 17, 2020