Smoke pot, stay out of jail.
July 24, 2002 7:00 PM Subscribe
Smoke pot, stay out of jail. As your lawyer, I advise you to read this cartoon by Ellen Forney. See also: Bustcard.
see also ...
for my legal advice though, i prefer tom the dancing bug. or did i already mention that today?
posted by priyanga at 7:24 PM on July 24, 2002
for my legal advice though, i prefer tom the dancing bug. or did i already mention that today?
posted by priyanga at 7:24 PM on July 24, 2002
Seems like an awful lot of trouble. And angst. Wouldn't it be easier just not to smoke pot?
posted by Slithy_Tove at 11:10 PM on July 24, 2002
posted by Slithy_Tove at 11:10 PM on July 24, 2002
Bustcard: 1. If the police knock and ask to enter your home, you don't have to admit them unless they have a warrant signed by a judge. Ya know, you're going to save yourself a lot of time and grief if you Just don't answer the door! Not just if it's the cops; don't ever answer a knock on your door. Never.
posted by Mack Twain at 12:59 AM on July 25, 2002
posted by Mack Twain at 12:59 AM on July 25, 2002
God, I hate this. I have nothing against pot and think it should be legal if alcohol is, etc. But if you can't be frickin' bothered to obey the laws of a free and democratic society, laws that you can work to change should you happen to disagree with them, then you do not deserve to criticize any other lawbreakers out there. Ever. Just keep your mouth shut.
Yes, drug laws are stupid, yes, police are corrupt, abuse their powers, abuse citizens, bend or break rules all the time. Yes, yes, yes. But what total arrogance to instruct people on (and congratulate them on) not getting caught. Laws are laws for a reason and if you don't obey them, you don't deserve the privilege of living in a free society.
posted by jfwlucy at 3:11 AM on July 25, 2002
Yes, drug laws are stupid, yes, police are corrupt, abuse their powers, abuse citizens, bend or break rules all the time. Yes, yes, yes. But what total arrogance to instruct people on (and congratulate them on) not getting caught. Laws are laws for a reason and if you don't obey them, you don't deserve the privilege of living in a free society.
posted by jfwlucy at 3:11 AM on July 25, 2002
"If the law supposes that," said Mr. Bumble, "the law is a ass, a idiot."
posted by xowie at 4:55 AM on July 25, 2002
posted by xowie at 4:55 AM on July 25, 2002
But what total arrogance to instruct people on (and congratulate them on) not getting caught. Laws are laws for a reason and if you don't obey them, you don't deserve the privilege of living in a free society.
Officer, arrest that cartoonist - it's treachery!
posted by niceness at 4:59 AM on July 25, 2002
Officer, arrest that cartoonist - it's treachery!
posted by niceness at 4:59 AM on July 25, 2002
Wow, some major right wing "OBEY OR ROT IN JAIL" sentiment here. You're all a bunch of speeding, jay walking, software stealing so and so's, lets get off our high horses. Much as I'm a big atheist, I'm not above quoting a little "without sin..cast first stone."
All very sound advice if you ask me. Excellent ways to avoid having the law hassle you cause they got nothing better to do. An handy list of reminders if you happen to be caught living in a narco-facist state. Personally, I'll all like "hooray for being Canadian."
posted by Leonard at 7:12 AM on July 25, 2002
All very sound advice if you ask me. Excellent ways to avoid having the law hassle you cause they got nothing better to do. An handy list of reminders if you happen to be caught living in a narco-facist state. Personally, I'll all like "hooray for being Canadian."
posted by Leonard at 7:12 AM on July 25, 2002
> You're all a bunch of speeding, jay walking, software
> stealing so and so's...
And don't forget all the tax cheats who calculate what they can "get away with" every year instead of what they legally owe. They are concerned, for example, not with what was a true business expense, but with what they can call a business expense and not raise suspicion.
Smoke 'em if ya got 'em, ladies.
posted by pracowity at 7:38 AM on July 25, 2002
> stealing so and so's...
And don't forget all the tax cheats who calculate what they can "get away with" every year instead of what they legally owe. They are concerned, for example, not with what was a true business expense, but with what they can call a business expense and not raise suspicion.
Smoke 'em if ya got 'em, ladies.
posted by pracowity at 7:38 AM on July 25, 2002
But if you can't be frickin' bothered to obey the laws of a free and democratic society, laws that you can work to change should you happen to disagree with them, then you do not deserve to criticize any other lawbreakers out there.
We started having "smoke-ins" and circulating legalization petitions in 1970, when I graduated from high school. NORML has been in business continuously since then. Guess what, the law hasn't changed.
Meanwhile, I'll criticize anybody I please, whether I "deserve to" or not. Last I heard, freedom of speech wasn't limited to people who deserve it. Or is Ashcroft working on that right, too?
posted by norm29 at 7:39 AM on July 25, 2002
We started having "smoke-ins" and circulating legalization petitions in 1970, when I graduated from high school. NORML has been in business continuously since then. Guess what, the law hasn't changed.
Meanwhile, I'll criticize anybody I please, whether I "deserve to" or not. Last I heard, freedom of speech wasn't limited to people who deserve it. Or is Ashcroft working on that right, too?
posted by norm29 at 7:39 AM on July 25, 2002
if you can't be frickin' bothered to obey the laws of a free and democratic society
It's really too bad more people didn't feel this way in the civil rights era.
posted by sudama at 8:37 AM on July 25, 2002
It's really too bad more people didn't feel this way in the civil rights era.
posted by sudama at 8:37 AM on July 25, 2002
Laws are laws for a reason
This was probably true once. There is a great deal of evidence suggesting that it no longer applies.
posted by rushmc at 8:52 AM on July 25, 2002
This was probably true once. There is a great deal of evidence suggesting that it no longer applies.
posted by rushmc at 8:52 AM on July 25, 2002
whether I "deserve to" or not. Last I heard, freedom of speech
Sometimes it's better to keep quit and be thought of as a fool, instead of opening your mouth and removing all doubt.
if you can't be frickin' bothered to obey the laws of a free and democratic society
It's really too bad more people didn't feel this way in the civil rights era.
Jim Crow laws violated the Constitution; drug laws do not. This is a foolish comparison and nothing more than B.S. claptrap. There are some pretty compelling reasons why some drug laws should be repealed or the punishments should be less draconian, but using the argument “I want to do drugs because it’s right because I say so” is bogus. Making this argument won’t help your cause at all, in fact it make you look unintelligent and makes your argument seem childish and stupid.
posted by Bag Man at 11:25 AM on July 25, 2002
Sometimes it's better to keep quit and be thought of as a fool, instead of opening your mouth and removing all doubt.
if you can't be frickin' bothered to obey the laws of a free and democratic society
It's really too bad more people didn't feel this way in the civil rights era.
Jim Crow laws violated the Constitution; drug laws do not. This is a foolish comparison and nothing more than B.S. claptrap. There are some pretty compelling reasons why some drug laws should be repealed or the punishments should be less draconian, but using the argument “I want to do drugs because it’s right because I say so” is bogus. Making this argument won’t help your cause at all, in fact it make you look unintelligent and makes your argument seem childish and stupid.
posted by Bag Man at 11:25 AM on July 25, 2002
In between the spelling errors and control characters, it becomes clear that you are unaware of the split between Federal law and the laws of several states, including the Constitution of my own, which declare marijuana a lawful medicine. Legislation to fix that is on its way. Soon, I will be able to smoke pot because it's right because I say so.
You have also missed the obvious point that the valuable legal advice in the links above are useful not just to drug users, but to anyone in a situation where arrest is possible - a protest march, strike or rave party, for example. Perhaps you think those are childish and stupid as well.
posted by xowie at 11:58 AM on July 25, 2002
You have also missed the obvious point that the valuable legal advice in the links above are useful not just to drug users, but to anyone in a situation where arrest is possible - a protest march, strike or rave party, for example. Perhaps you think those are childish and stupid as well.
posted by xowie at 11:58 AM on July 25, 2002
In between the spelling errors and control characters, it becomes clear that you are unaware of the split between Federal law and the laws of several states, including the Constitution of my own, which declare marijuana a lawful medicine. Legislation to fix that is on its way. Soon, I will be able to smoke pot because it's right because I say so.
xowie, in between your personal insults, poor logic and lack of any real point I guess you missed the difference between the medical use of marijuana and its recreational use.
You also completely missed (and you should have not done this because I provided the italicized words for you viewing pleasure) that I was not responding to the main thread, but rather to the insane argument that the struggle to right the wrongs of 400 years of oppression and racism = the ability of some people to smoke weed legally. The comparison is an insult to struggles of King Jr., Evers (sp.?) and countess thousands of people who literally gave their lives so we can live in a better world.
We have better arguments; why don’t we use them?
I think you’ll find that you and I are on the same side of much of what is going here, but your need to make a knee-jerk reaction (something along the line of “you jack-booted, peace hating, Narc I want to smoke my weed”) has eliminated all the nuance out what I was trying to say. Further alienating someone who supports your cause won’t get better drug laws on the books.
jfwlucy makes a good pint. If you don’t like particular laws you can change them. Unlit then you can be arrested, unless you have a compelling reason at trial that some violation of civil rights occurred. jfwlucy was not suggesting that all laws should always be obeyed no matter what. How could anyone miss that?
P.S. you spelled “declare” wrong; it should be declares
P.P.S. The control character issues are not may fault! It's this stupid computer’s fault!
posted by Bag Man at 12:35 PM on July 25, 2002
xowie, in between your personal insults, poor logic and lack of any real point I guess you missed the difference between the medical use of marijuana and its recreational use.
You also completely missed (and you should have not done this because I provided the italicized words for you viewing pleasure) that I was not responding to the main thread, but rather to the insane argument that the struggle to right the wrongs of 400 years of oppression and racism = the ability of some people to smoke weed legally. The comparison is an insult to struggles of King Jr., Evers (sp.?) and countess thousands of people who literally gave their lives so we can live in a better world.
We have better arguments; why don’t we use them?
I think you’ll find that you and I are on the same side of much of what is going here, but your need to make a knee-jerk reaction (something along the line of “you jack-booted, peace hating, Narc I want to smoke my weed”) has eliminated all the nuance out what I was trying to say. Further alienating someone who supports your cause won’t get better drug laws on the books.
jfwlucy makes a good pint. If you don’t like particular laws you can change them. Unlit then you can be arrested, unless you have a compelling reason at trial that some violation of civil rights occurred. jfwlucy was not suggesting that all laws should always be obeyed no matter what. How could anyone miss that?
P.S. you spelled “declare” wrong; it should be declares
P.P.S. The control character issues are not may fault! It's this stupid computer’s fault!
posted by Bag Man at 12:35 PM on July 25, 2002
Those control characters make you look "square", Daddy-o. And "declare" was proper, as it referred to laws in the plural. Now go away and let me finish this bong hit.
posted by xowie at 12:38 PM on July 25, 2002
posted by xowie at 12:38 PM on July 25, 2002
Hey, if anyone bothers to read this response -- I am one of the more lefty, pro-NORML, pro-civil disobedience people out there. I'm all for working to change the status quo. But it's just plain lazy to focus on how to stymie the cops over something this petty AND to glamorize and trivialize it.
If this were a set of instructions on how to fool the cops if say, abortion were illegal or discrimination were still institutionalized, I'd be all for it, frankly. But I'd still want the material also to focus on how to CHANGE the law, and I'd justify my apparent double standard in this case by pointing out that discrimination and lack of access to abortion affect people's lives very seriously, while marijuana, except in the case of severely ill people, is nothing but another entertainment choice. So thanks, Bag Man, for seeing my point.
And I haven't even started on how consumers of drugs in the U.S. are responsible for some seriously economy-crippling trends in supplying countries all over South America and South Asia, and how if you smoke or snort, you can feel proud knowing you've personally done your bit to contribute to the continued cycle of misery and poverty and death that the drug trade engenders. Smoke THAT in your pipe.
posted by jfwlucy at 7:32 PM on July 25, 2002
If this were a set of instructions on how to fool the cops if say, abortion were illegal or discrimination were still institutionalized, I'd be all for it, frankly. But I'd still want the material also to focus on how to CHANGE the law, and I'd justify my apparent double standard in this case by pointing out that discrimination and lack of access to abortion affect people's lives very seriously, while marijuana, except in the case of severely ill people, is nothing but another entertainment choice. So thanks, Bag Man, for seeing my point.
And I haven't even started on how consumers of drugs in the U.S. are responsible for some seriously economy-crippling trends in supplying countries all over South America and South Asia, and how if you smoke or snort, you can feel proud knowing you've personally done your bit to contribute to the continued cycle of misery and poverty and death that the drug trade engenders. Smoke THAT in your pipe.
posted by jfwlucy at 7:32 PM on July 25, 2002
The ACLU bustcard and flexyourrights.com, as well as the second part of that lovely cartoon (perhaps you missed it) aren't even about drugs, they are a set of instructions, useful to all Americans, about how to operate under the Fourth Amendment. What's left of it. Anyway, I smoke homegrown in my pipe, as do many Californians, and how would you know whether I or my loved ones suffer serious illness or not. How specious on all accounts, really. Take your ugly presumptions somewhere else.
posted by xowie at 8:21 PM on July 25, 2002
posted by xowie at 8:21 PM on July 25, 2002
pontificate all you will people, i'm off to get religion from THC and a little boards of canada. i'll return to enlighten you all later.
posted by iceblink at 8:40 PM on July 25, 2002
posted by iceblink at 8:40 PM on July 25, 2002
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posted by gluechunk at 7:12 PM on July 24, 2002