Men give up reading a book before page 50

April 30, 2020 8:49 AM

Turns out men give up on books they don’t like way more easily than women do (LitHub): According to a recent study of ebook usage in the UK, conducted by the Audience Agency, men are likely to give up reading a book before page 50, while women more often make it to page 100 (at least). [...] And don’t blame television. “Netflix binge-watchers aren’t necessarily less likely to finish reading a book,” wrote Sophia Woodley and Oliver Mantell, the authors of the report. “If they are genre fans on Netflix and are reading a genre book, there is in fact a positive correlation.”
posted by not_the_water (97 comments total)

According to a recent study of ebook usage...

I can definitely say that I am far more likely to bail early on an ebook than I am on a print book.
posted by Thorzdad at 8:55 AM on April 30, 2020 [16 favorites]

Interesting. I am not surprised, because throughout our history, women are more likely to have had to learn compromise and patience with less than ideal situations.
posted by tiny frying pan at 8:57 AM on April 30, 2020 [33 favorites]

I recall the first time I ever got up and left a movie in a theatre because it was terrible.

(Black Dog, starring Patrick Swayze and Meat Loaf)

It felt very liberating to realize I could do that, and satisfying to know I was someone who would.
posted by darkstar at 8:58 AM on April 30, 2020 [28 favorites]

Men realize they don't like a book before page 50

Ain't nothing wrong with that, imho
posted by MrJM at 9:01 AM on April 30, 2020 [12 favorites]

If you're reading a book for pleasure (or any other reason) and after a fair amount of time you find it's not fulfilling that purpose, why would you waste any more time? Why not look for something that fulfils the purpose better?
posted by Grangousier at 9:06 AM on April 30, 2020 [29 favorites]

I didn't even realize you weren't obligated to finish a book you started until I was well into my 30s. I slogged through some stinkers and books that I did bail on weren't books I quit reading, they were just on pause.

But, yeah, I'll give up on a book well before page 50 if it's not what I'm looking for. I also bail quickly on shows and movies these days. Time is precious, and I've no shortage of media in front of me.

I'd like to know a lot more about the data here. Does it count a book as finished if the reader skims page 51-200 but "completes" the book? Does it know I've finished a book if I've read 72% and the remainder is appendices?

As I get older I read a lot less, primarily because when I have downtime to read without interruptions, I'm ready to go to bed. And reading, which I used to be able to do all night, puts me to sleep even faster.
posted by jzb at 9:07 AM on April 30, 2020 [12 favorites]

And here I am, one of the idiots that soldiered all the way through Neal Stephenson's Dodge with less than nothing to show for it.
posted by tclark at 9:10 AM on April 30, 2020 [24 favorites]

I never thought I could be furious about a book until I passed page 300 or so in Dodge.
posted by Kosmob0t at 9:20 AM on April 30, 2020 [17 favorites]

I'll never forget reading a forum post by a guy who announced that he would put back a book if he noticed that the author used their initials instead of a first name. I know you're a woman trying to sneak past me, he said.

Even so, I myself am not exactly sorry that I pass on or give up on books more easily than I used to. Sometimes I would have missed out on rewards if a class hadn't made me persevere, as with The Golden Notebook and Ulysses, which would have exhausted my patience long before I got to the best parts. But I am also glad I no longer feel that I have to put up with repulsive books like Heinlein's or wearisome books like Stephenson's in order to get to the meat that I was assured was there. I was at an amazingly advanced age before I realized that not liking a successful book was not necessarily a failing of my own.

(Then there are the books that I rage-finish instead of rage-quit. Some books just give me that "I demand to know where you are taking this" feeling. I'm not sure if I like this better or not, but it gives me more to argue about.)
posted by Countess Elena at 9:21 AM on April 30, 2020 [20 favorites]

(on posting, it amuses me that two comments brought up Stephenson while I was still typing)
posted by Countess Elena at 9:22 AM on April 30, 2020 [12 favorites]

I never thought I could be furious about a book until I passed page 300 or so in Dodge Infinite Jest.

That's right. I said it. And I'm still mad.
posted by Capt. Renault at 9:26 AM on April 30, 2020 [15 favorites]

Why is not finishing a book considered giving up? This is weird clickbait that only adds to "them" pitting men against women. IMHO.
posted by humboldt32 at 9:30 AM on April 30, 2020 [40 favorites]

I've only given up on reading one book, and that was The Fountainhead. I got a third of the way through, and then threw it across the room.

I've stoppped reading other books, but fully intend to pick them back up one day. I only picked up The Fountainhead after a week to throw it away.
posted by SansPoint at 9:34 AM on April 30, 2020 [4 favorites]

After I turned 40 I decided not to finish books I wasn't enjoying. It felt weird after growing up with the idea that Being A Reader and Pushing Through was the moral high ground but man...life is too short.
posted by warriorqueen at 9:38 AM on April 30, 2020 [15 favorites]

I'm one of those people who is sometimes more inclined to keep going on a book if it's bad. It's gotta be MST3K-scale bad, though; the kind of thing where you read something totally outrageous and it stuns you, and you call friends to read passages all "get this." Some of the most fun meetings we've had in my book club is when we all hate something, and all take turns busting on it in the most graphic and vitriolic ways possible (I'm looking at you, Limbo).

Perhaps this made me especially well suited to running a playwriting competition for several years. We did have a merciful rule of thumb for our volunteer readers - an "out" they could use only once for the stack of scripts we asked each to read for us. If they came across something where the first few pages were just completely and utterly terrible, we said they could skip to the middle and read a couple random pages from the middle and see if it got any better. If it was still terrible, they could stop and leave that one unfinished. ….However, our volunteers also were often in the hate-reading camp, and would all show up at the thank-you happy hour we'd throw for our volunteers and gather in corners to do dramatic staged readings for each other of the worst bits of things they'd read.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 9:45 AM on April 30, 2020 [6 favorites]

Previously, more or less.
posted by dannyboybell at 9:45 AM on April 30, 2020

And here I am, one of the idiots that soldiered all the way through Neal Stephenson's Dodge with less than nothing to show for it.

Thanks for the tip! (closes ebook)
posted by JoeZydeco at 9:46 AM on April 30, 2020 [3 favorites]

"The right to not finish" is #3 in the Reader's Bill of Rights. Framed this way, the finding makes perfect sense to me, because of course men have more rights than women. I don't mean to be cheeky by saying that; it's just that men haven't been as conditioned to put up with bullshit.

(I used to review books for a living, and ever since then I've felt completely at liberty to put down an unfinished book forever. But it was a right that had to be learned and practiced under unusual circumstances.)
posted by the_blizz at 9:47 AM on April 30, 2020 [9 favorites]

My loose rule has always been the halfway point, regardless if it's a 100 or 1000 page novel. I figure if I'm still reading at that point I owe it to myself to finish just based on time invested. I have been occasionally burned by books that went to shit in the second half though. And yeah, last year's Fall by Stephenson (Dodge was the main character?). Thought I was in for a full story set in that near future Ameristan. Instead I got literally hundreds of pages of video game world building, like some awful mashup of the Bible and Lord of the Rings
posted by mannequito at 9:53 AM on April 30, 2020

You don’t need to eat the entire fish to know...
posted by Guy Smiley at 9:53 AM on April 30, 2020 [2 favorites]

Learning that it is possible to quit books (films, radio programs, plays, concerts) has been one of the most useful discoveries of my adult life. Walking out forty minutes into a six hour multi-play Shakespeare production that I paid $180 for and had ordered a catered lunch for felt like a graduation. (It was truly, shockingly awful.)

Finding actual details of the study is harder than I would have expected. I'd be very curious how they controlled for people who read the same book in different media, how long they wait to consider a book abandoned, etc.
posted by eotvos at 9:56 AM on April 30, 2020 [4 favorites]

We often give up just as early, but if we finish we can complain about it more thoroughly.
posted by seraphine at 9:56 AM on April 30, 2020 [2 favorites]

Jeeze, I have -never- felt obligated to finish a book I wasn't enjoying. If it was required for a class, I'd slog, sure. If it had been recommended by someone I respect, I'd skip/skim to see if it got better, or I might skip to the end just to see what happened, but I was always taught, when writing, that your writing should grab the reader in the first 10 pages, so if a book didn't do that for me, I'd drop it. Might give it another chance later. Also have thrown plenty of books across the room (hi, Stephen R Donaldson book about rapey leper! Hope you enjoyed your short and brutal flight!)
posted by The otter lady at 9:58 AM on April 30, 2020 [7 favorites]

last year's Fall by Stephenson (Dodge was the main character?)

Ah yes, that's correct. The book is called Fall; or, Dodge in Hell. I liked or loved most of his other books, but that one? That one.... I, personally, write better than that. And I can't even land an agent.
posted by tclark at 9:59 AM on April 30, 2020 [1 favorite]

. The book is called Fall; or, Dodge in Hell.

very fire such brimstone wow
posted by The otter lady at 10:02 AM on April 30, 2020 [15 favorites]

Yeah, if it's unpleasant, I will either skip ahead/to the end to see if it goes anywhere interesting or better, or just shrug and put it down. There are so many good books out there! Life is short! etc.

Not related to gender; I read really fast, so 100 pages would be a quick read for me. Unless every page is an exercise in horrible painful writing (which does happen) I can generally get that far.
posted by emjaybee at 10:03 AM on April 30, 2020 [3 favorites]

Used to burn through 40's - 70's science fiction, you learn to spot a bad book very quickly.

They're everywhere!
posted by Max Power at 10:11 AM on April 30, 2020 [9 favorites]

I have stopped reading many, many good books, because they just didn't do it for me in that moment. But usually, this makes itself apparent within the first chapter or sometimes the first two pages. For a couple - often longer fantasy novels - I'll continue in because the first bit (e.g. the opening act) was great, only to find that they get bogged down in Act 2 or go in a direction that I have no interest in.

I used to feel bad about it. It's easier to not feel guilty with ebooks - I borrow them from the library, they don't work for me, so I just return them with one click. I don't even have to physically return them.
posted by jb at 10:11 AM on April 30, 2020 [1 favorite]

I rarely bail on books, unless I run out of steam and put them on long hiatus like Life: A User's Manual or A Heartbreaking Work of Staggering Genius. If I do give up, it will be very quickly - within 10-15 pages - and likely because I hate the prose. The Wind-Up Bird Chronicle was like that for me. Also a book written by a family friend. That one lasted 2 pages. But those are rare. It takes a special kind of bad prose (or the inability to form coherent sentences) for me to bail.

When it comes to TV shows or mini-series, I'm way more likely to stick through to the end than grumpybearbride. Even if I don't love the show, I want to know what happens next, you know?
posted by grumpybear69 at 10:19 AM on April 30, 2020

I guess this is one of those gifts of ADHD: even though I was socialized as female and have plenty of the concomitant sense of obligation, I've been giving up on books that didn't grab me since childhood. Life is too short, and there are a lot of books out there. I find it unfathomable that slogging through a book you don't like would be seen as the moral high ground. You've already paid for the book (or the library has) - you're not helping anyone by reading the whole thing.

The ONE exception I'd maybe offer is that if it's a book that's helping you to grow as a person in ways that make you a better person to other people - for instance, reading books that make you challenge your own biases. But even then, it might just be better to find another book that helps you to do that in a way that works better for you.
posted by lunasol at 10:21 AM on April 30, 2020 [6 favorites]

I'll never forget reading a forum post by a guy who announced that he would put back a book if he noticed that the author used their initials instead of a first name. I know you're a woman trying to sneak past me, he said.

This is so stupid it attains a sort of genius. I'm sure V. S. Naipul, H. F. Saint, P. G. Wodehouse, A. A. Milne, and L. Frank Baum would be fascinated by this. As would George Eliot, Robert Galbraith, and Isak Dinesen.

I've bailed on a 370 page book after 320 pages, which is a personal record (I kept going because everyone else seems to love this book, but after a while I realized I no longer cared how it turned out or could even remember who half the characters were).

I have a special shelf on my ereader for "abandoned" books. The fact that I don't just delete them from my ereader probably says something interesting about my personality.
posted by It's Never Lurgi at 10:24 AM on April 30, 2020 [8 favorites]

I firmly put Donna Tartt's "Goldfinch" aside on precisely p. 186
posted by elkevelvet at 10:24 AM on April 30, 2020 [8 favorites]

Hmmm. I’ve read dozens of books on Kindle over the last year, and I didn’t finish a whole bunch of them. Some I didn’t like and gave up on, others I stepped away from for a week and returned to find my interest gone, but not a few I completed but did not read every last page of notes, citations, ads for the next book, whatever. Sometimes my Kindle seemed to recognize that I had “completed” the book, based on its pushing the Goodreads review page at me, but not always.

Would be interested to read the full Amazon report. (I can’t see all of the Times article, but I’ll likely get it at some point.) For those out there interested in Amazon’s many effects on fiction, Mark “The Program Era” McGurl wrote in 2016 about the impact of Amazon’s publicity, licensing, etc. impact on some authors — “Everything and Less: Fiction in the Age of Amazon🛒.” doi.org/10.1215/00267929-3570689
posted by cupcakeninja at 10:25 AM on April 30, 2020 [1 favorite]

How close to the end have you bailed on a book? I tiptoed away from Interview with the Vampire about 30 pages from the end; and I don't know if that's worse than bailing before page 50.

Justin Cronin's The Passage seemed like two separate books to me; I loved the first one, lasted about 8 pages into the second.
posted by kurumi at 10:31 AM on April 30, 2020 [2 favorites]

I didn’t expect to make it through the article but it was only three paragraphs long.
posted by sjswitzer at 10:45 AM on April 30, 2020 [6 favorites]

Very anecdotally, my dad is a never-surrender guy who will finish the WORST thing (books, movies, tv shows) once he's started it. I frequently bail on the first third of books -- but if I get that far, I'll always finish. I'm more likely to finish something -- eventually -- on ebook than with a physical book. A physical book that is too boring will probably get forgotten under the bed. I quit TV shows constantly, because I can think of so many programs in my formative years (hello Veronica Mars and Buffy) that would've been better if I just quit watching as soon as I started to hate the show. If I'm going to really hate a book, I usually know it way before the end. Movies and TV shows can absolutely end in a way that is shocking and dismaying, though...
posted by grandiloquiet at 10:47 AM on April 30, 2020

Give a book 50 pages. When you get to the bottom of Page 50, ask yourself if you're really liking the book. If you are, of course, then great, keep on reading. But if you're not, then put it down and look for another.
…
When you are 51 years of age or older, subtract your age from 100, and the resulting number (which, of course, gets smaller every year) is the number of pages you should read before you can guiltlessly give up on a book. As the saying goes, "Age has its privileges."

And the ultimate privilege of age, of course, is that when you turn 100, you are authorized (by the Rule of 50) to judge a book by its cover.

– Nancy Pearl's Rule of 50
posted by Phssthpok at 10:49 AM on April 30, 2020 [27 favorites]

>And here I am, one of the idiots that soldiered all the way through Neal Stephenson's Dodge with less than nothing to show for it.

You have my compete understanding, sympathy and camaraderie. What an insufferable, inane read!

I await the big budget movie directed by Stephen Spielberg.
posted by Catblack at 10:56 AM on April 30, 2020 [3 favorites]

tl; d
posted by lalochezia at 10:59 AM on April 30, 2020 [19 favorites]

I have a small stack of books that I haven't given-up on, per se. It's just that their attraction isn't quite strong enough to bring me back right now.
posted by Thorzdad at 11:03 AM on April 30, 2020 [2 favorites]

According to Marie Kondo, "There’s no need to finish reading books that you only got halfway through. Their purpose was to be read halfway."

There are a lot of books that come into my life whose purpose is to be read 22%, especially literary fiction about bad marriages, fantasy written by fanfic authors, and mystery novels that haven't produced the first murder at that point.

Every time I finish one (looking at you, Fleishman Is in Trouble, and book about clockwork dragons that had no dragon action), I am filled with boredom, regret, and annoyance at myself for continuing to swipe until the end.
posted by betweenthebars at 11:06 AM on April 30, 2020 [7 favorites]

I like to be open-minded and give things a chance, and I read a lot.

But I can think of no book that I hated in the first few dozen pages and changed my mind later. I can think of a few that I regret not giving up on, though.

There are far more good books than I will ever have time to read; why stick with one that I'm not enjoying?
posted by Foosnark at 11:42 AM on April 30, 2020 [3 favorites]

I will bail on a book on page five if it's annoying me. However, I really hate the idea anyone would keep track of exactly what I did once I picked up a book. I use an e-reader to read review copies and library books, but I always put it on airplane mode when I've downloaded it in hopes that will frustrate the spies.
posted by zenzenobia at 11:50 AM on April 30, 2020 [2 favorites]

If you are reading a book and giving up because the writing is amateurish and lackluster, poorly researched or has poor character development, I'm in your corner. If you are giving up because the characters are loathsome, I wouldn't necessarily but okay. If you are giving up because the book is making you confront something you don't like about yourself or giving you an uncomfortable realization about your loyalties to institutions that are perpetuating moral harm, maybe you should stick with it.

Easier said than done sometimes. I'm quick to abandon the hard reads sometimes because I don't have the intestinal fortitude to stick it out. Reading about trauma and injustice that I lack power to address is a quick route through rage and into weariness. I feel like I owe the people who suffer from the same society that I benefit from my attention and need to understand how to help, but I really think sometimes that there is in general a difference (socialization or biology, regardless) between men and women in whether they'll see the value of a quick sprint to a solution versus a near endless marathon.
posted by BrotherCaine at 12:07 PM on April 30, 2020 [1 favorite]

I finish some books. Most books I start I do not. Non-fiction is my fave, but even those I am very very ADHD in my reading and flit through sections.

Fiction on the other hand is very very difficult for me, so I find it's a rare author I can stomach that makes me want to read. I often say fiction is more about Flow or something surreal and different that makes me WANT to find out what's going to happen. I could care less if great warrior Grogthar rides his steed to Kingdom X to fight Lord Blahblah.

When is the reality melting coming in? When's the goofy jokes and bad humor?

PKD and Douglas Adams are the only fiction I'm able to read so far without giving up on (and even some of PKD I did sort of force myself through on some when I felt they were a bit weak on execution - or didn't quite get to the main point).

Anyways - yes, give up on books. Do what brings you pleasure, life is short. Stop forcing yourself in drudgery just because something is popular and supposed to be good.

This also applies to something like Video Gaming where I've gotten tons of games that look good or reviewed well and just weren't for me, so I stop after 2 hours (of a 20+ hours game). In fact most of my video game plays have given myself about 2 hours and if I'm not feeling it, they get dropped.

This seems like a luxury one can afford when one is faced with a wealth of options and plenty of time to fumble through the options and make changes in their choices of what to play/listen to/read/watch.
posted by symbioid at 12:09 PM on April 30, 2020 [1 favorite]

I used to grimly force myself to read books I wasn't enjoying to the very end, then realized a few years ago that life is too short and I really should just give up. This was a lot easier once I started borrowing 95% of the books I read from the library. The only cost was time.
posted by Automocar at 12:11 PM on April 30, 2020 [2 favorites]

I guess this is one of those gifts of ADHD

Yeah, I was going to comment that ADHD is about 50% more prevalent in men than women. I don't know about the distribution of capacity for attention within the non-neurodiverse population, but I'm willing to guess that you'd find that the distribution curve in women is somewhat to the right of that in men.
posted by howfar at 12:18 PM on April 30, 2020

Yes!

It took me thirty years to finally understand I do not have to finish a book, album, or movie I don't like. I'll even skip right to the end to see if I was right about how dumb the ending was going to be — because I am a rebel, Dottie. A lone wolf.

It's also great relief to not feel compelled to read "Literature" and just fuck-off with genre all I want.

Now Book Club can be just an unapologetic excuse for a social cocktail and riffing about a dumb mystery novel and we don't invite people who tend to get too serious about the whole thing.

My life is so much better.
posted by Everyone Expects The Spanish Influenza at 12:20 PM on April 30, 2020 [2 favorites]

I am fighting my way through Gravity's Rainbow, and while I haven't given up it's been a multi-year slog interrupted by much more enjoyable books.
posted by tommasz at 12:24 PM on April 30, 2020 [2 favorites]

I am so soothed by seeing Fall, or Dodge in Hell, mentioned so many times here. I knew I should have put it down when the sex scene referred to men's genitalia as "doodles", but I kept going because he's Neal Stephenson. In the back half I realized I was hate reading the book and just needed to see where on earth it was going, and then it didn't go anywhere, and I felt so betrayed. Since then my quit rate has shot up.
posted by BuddhaInABucket at 12:35 PM on April 30, 2020 [4 favorites]

The first book I remember putting down with no intention of finishing was Infinite Jest. As far as I am concerned, nothing of value was lost.
posted by JohnFromGR at 12:45 PM on April 30, 2020 [2 favorites]

I stop reading a book whenever I don't want to read it anymore. I'm not in school; I'm not required to answer questions about it on an exam or submit an essay on it. I'm a grownup - I'm free!

I sometimes indulge in what I call "comfort reading" - I re-read a few pages of one of my favorite books. I have bookmarks saved in my e-books for precisely this purpose. Reading is for enjoyment!
posted by tallmiddleagedgeek at 12:57 PM on April 30, 2020 [14 favorites]

With a 3-4 book a week habit (library) I've learned over many years that I don't like books that are reviewed by the big "names" in reviewing. If another author can't even be coerced into saying something, I'm usually already out. It's served me well. Also, men are more likely...just like dating. ha? And David Foster Wallace, thanks for nothing.
posted by lextex at 12:58 PM on April 30, 2020

Gene Wolfe, when asked why he had such a reputation in the SF community as a nice guy said (paraphrasing):

I have no compulsion to finish a book if I'm not enjoying it, so if someone asks me whether I like their book, I can always honestly say either "Yes" or "I haven't read it yet."
posted by straight at 1:06 PM on April 30, 2020 [16 favorites]

> when the sex scene referred to men's genitalia as "doodles"

That's an apt use of Australian English.
posted by Phssthpok at 1:36 PM on April 30, 2020

In contrast to most of this thread, I will reveal myself to be That Dork that finishes 95% of what he starts, on principle if nothing else. Even if the book is bad, I typically don't regret finishing the book and I savor the experience for what it is. I am a very open-minded, omnivorous reader of fiction and I've been able to find something rewarding in stuff that most people would consider absolute trash (Twilight, James Patterson, The Alchemist, etc.)

That other 5%, though...hoo boy.
posted by zeusianfog at 1:37 PM on April 30, 2020 [2 favorites]

So, like, nobody keeps plowing through because you think "Maybe I'm wrong and I'm missing something or there's a turnaround at the end or ..."?

Just me?
posted by allthinky at 2:04 PM on April 30, 2020 [7 favorites]

That's why I stick with nearly every book. Some don't pay off and it's disappointing. Some are so horrible that when you get to the end you feel like you've been had. The Stephenson book is one example. Another for me is Forrest Gump, which is my personal go-to for movie that's light years better than the book (and the movie has..... problems of its own).
posted by tclark at 2:08 PM on April 30, 2020 [1 favorite]

Just me?

I used to, but I think Infinite Jest cured me.
posted by rodlymight at 2:25 PM on April 30, 2020 [3 favorites]

movie that's light years better than the book

team The Ice Storm here
posted by thelonius at 2:29 PM on April 30, 2020 [3 favorites]

Allthinky, I have grimly plowed through a few (especially ones recommended on Askme, like Cloud Atlas and The Long Way To A Small Angry Planet), wondering "What's wrong with me? Why don't I like this book that everyone's raving about?" And so far I just get to the end and feeling 1. Shame at myself for not 'getting' it and 2. Bummed because I just spent x hours doing something I didn't even enjoy. And... Seriously life is too short. It's ok. Put it down and move on, is my advice.
posted by The otter lady at 2:33 PM on April 30, 2020 [1 favorite]

I have no compulsion to finish a book if I'm not enjoying it, so if someone asks me whether I like their book, I can always honestly say either "Yes" or "I haven't read it yet."

But isn't that dishonest? Shouldn't it be either "Yes" or "Your book was so shit I had to drop it"?
posted by star gentle uterus at 2:33 PM on April 30, 2020

only 5 percent of ebooks are finished by more than 75 percent of readers.

I think this might be more related to how much less discerning people are about eBooks than print. I know plenty of people who simply download eBooks willy nilly without any evaluation until actually beginning to read it. I am definitely one of the people who finishes most eBooks when I start reading, and I think that is because I skim the first few pages of the eBook before I commit to downloading it. I do the same with physical books. It lessens the chances that I'll make a poor selection and want to quit reading it before I hit the 50 page mark. It also saves me time in the long run; after I turned 40 I started to feel my mortality and realized that I shouldn't waste time with things I didn't like, including books I am not enjoying.
posted by LilithSilver at 2:33 PM on April 30, 2020 [1 favorite]

There's been only one occasion when I read a book I absolutely hated and got to the last page and realized it was actually great: Raymond Chandler's "The Big Sleep".
posted by acrasis at 2:34 PM on April 30, 2020 [6 favorites]

Also, I've written a couple of books and if someone tried to read them and didn't like them, I'd MUCH rather they quit and said "it wasn't really my thing, so I didn't finish it" if I asked, rather than "yeah I read it all and it sucked and here's why".
posted by The otter lady at 2:38 PM on April 30, 2020 [1 favorite]

I used to read a lot of fiction. Mostly genre, but still. About 4 years ago I made a change in my reading habits when I realized there's just too many things to read. I made a switch to only reading non-fiction; mostly science, technology, history of science and technology and cultural history.

It is very easy to bail on bad books of these kinds if by 50 pages the author has not made it clear why he wants you to keep reading.

It as a lot more difficult with fiction. But even there I don't recall a book that I was slogging through getting better as it went on. By that I mean if by page 50 I was already dreading going on; I never finished that book feeling like it was worth it.

So a corollary to this is ... MeFites, are there any books that you did not like in the beginning and were dreading finishing but actually got better?

Edited to add: Acrasis just posted before I posted mine. That is what I am looking for.
posted by indianbadger1 at 2:44 PM on April 30, 2020

So, like, nobody keeps plowing through because you think "Maybe I'm wrong and I'm missing something or there's a turnaround at the end or ..."?

I used to, but that has only happened once. I was bored and annoyed by all the characters Alan Hollinghurst's The Line of Beauty, but it starts to pick up speed near the end and then there's a fantastic and beautifully written set piece--it was so good I forgot that I'd disliked much of the book.

Most of the time a book that isn't working for me will end in a way that makes me want to throw the book against the wall, but I can't because it's a Kindle. For example, Ian McEwan. Not Atonement, that other book of his, and that other book of his as well.
posted by betweenthebars at 2:44 PM on April 30, 2020 [1 favorite]

Honestly, no, I can't think of ANY really.

There was one book that I thought was absolutely putrid--it was about "sperm banditry" and some woman deciding she was going to get knocked up by a rando. Not a book I would have chosen AT ALL, but some publishing company sent it to me for free for a review and I felt obligated to read it. It got less bad....and then the ending was just as bad as the start. Not worth reading.
posted by jenfullmoon at 2:45 PM on April 30, 2020

So a corollary to this is ... MeFites, are there any books that you did not like in the beginning and were dreading finishing but actually got better?

A Tale of Two Cities. There’s the famous first chapter, when nothing happens, then there’s a second chapter, when nothing happens, and there’s a third chapter, when some random dude rides in a truck or something, and at this point my previous experience reading Great Expectations did not imbue me with confidence that this book was going to be any good. I only resumed reading a week or two later because I had to for school.

It gets better once he finally decides to start telling the story. The ending...is better than Great Expectations....
posted by Huffy Puffy at 3:04 PM on April 30, 2020 [3 favorites]

Books that got better? Hmmm...

Cixin Liu, The Three Body Problem. Takes a long time before you even know what the book is about.

H. Rider Haggard, She. Wastes a lot of time with ancient documents (the entire text in Greek is given) trying to prove that the adventure story it's going to tell is real.

David Lindsay, A Voyage to Arcturus. The introductory séance gives absolutely no hint about how trippy the story is.

Susanna Clarke, Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell. If you hated the first 100 pages you'd probably hate the rest, but at least things start to happen.

For that matter, I don't know if anyone hates the first 40 pages of Lord of the Rings, but the rest of the book is sure not like them.
posted by zompist at 3:22 PM on April 30, 2020 [5 favorites]

The "Aria with Diverse Variations" dialogue in Godel,Escher,Bach comes to mind when I'm reading books:

Tortoise: You've undoubtedly noticed how some authors go to so much trouble to build up great tension a few pages before the end of their stories-but a reader who is holding the book physically in their hands can FEEL that the story is about to end. Hence, they have some extra information which acts as an advance warning, in a way. The tension is a bit spoiled by the physicality of the book. It would be so much better if, for instance, there were a lot of padding at the end of novels: a lot of extra printed pages which are not part of the story proper, but which serve to conceal the exact location of the end from a cursory glance, or from the feel of the book.

Achilles: I see. So a story's true ending might occur, say, fifty or a hundred pages before the physical end of the book?

Tortoise: Yes. This would provide an element of surprise, because the reader wouldn't know in advance how many pages are padding, and how many are story.

Achilles: But there is a problem. Suppose your padding were very obvious-such as a lot of blanks, or pages covered with X's or random letters. Then, it would be as good as absent.

Tortoise: Granted. You'd have to make it resemble normal printed pages.

Achilles: But even a cursory glance at a normal page from one story will often suffice to distinguish it from another story. So you will have to make the padding resemble the genuine story rather closely.

Tortoise: That's quite true. The way I've always envisioned it is this: you bring the story to an end; then without any break, you follow it with something which looks like a continuation but which is in reality just padding, and which is utterly unrelated to the true theme. The padding is, in a way, a "post-ending ending". It may contain extraneous literary ideas, having little to do with the original theme.

My personal rule for most Stephenson books is to stop at the point that I think the book has reached its "post-ending ending" padding and I feel no compunction about abandoning it at that point. It was quite a coincidence when a friend revealed that they had the same habit and we had both decided that Seveneves concluded on the exact same page.

Whether or not GEB has a secret ending and that the rest is merely padding is a matter of some debate...
posted by autopilot at 3:30 PM on April 30, 2020 [9 favorites]

MeFites, are there any books that you did not like in the beginning and were dreading finishing but actually got better?

It was for school, but Silas Marner. The first couple chapters are boring as hell scene-setting stuff, and everyone else in my class was talking about how they were bailing out and hitting up Cliffs' Notes, but I was too much of a goodie-two-shoes to "cheat" like that so I kept reading and after about Chapter 3 I discovered that "Hang on, this is actually kinda cool."

Billy Budd can go pork itself right in the ear, though
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:34 PM on April 30, 2020 [2 favorites]

50 pages? Damn... I've always given them 5 pages.

Maybe 25, only if they once blew my sox off. Which explains how I got 50 pages into Baroque Cycle. (NS can be a -slow starter- but page-counts ain't no excuse.)

Lotta books out there. Don't be wastin my time. yo.
posted by Twang at 3:44 PM on April 30, 2020 [1 favorite]

Hey, the false ending works for Return of the King, with that long epilogue, so LOTR manages both the slow start and the surprise-ish early ending. (and then the other ending)

Also in surprise endings, e-book edition: Team of Rivals. You don’t see all those footnotes coming on your Kindle.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 3:56 PM on April 30, 2020 [2 favorites]

Whether or not GEB has a secret ending and that the rest is merely padding is a matter of some debate...

I have been wondering that for decades ever since reading that passage.
posted by Radiophonic Oddity at 3:57 PM on April 30, 2020 [2 favorites]

Based on what I've read about story structure in fiction, it can reasonably take about 20% to 25% of a book's length before the story fully kicks in and you can get a firm idea of what the book is even about. That seems to me like a perfectly reasonable point at which to chuck it out if it ain't happening for you. As they used to say in Hollywood, if nothing has happened by then, nothing is going to happen.
posted by Flexagon at 4:02 PM on April 30, 2020 [3 favorites]

MeFites, are there any books that you did not like in the beginning and were dreading finishing but actually got better?

About eight years ago a similar question came up, about reading books you were not enjoying. My response from then still seems pertinent.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 4:09 PM on April 30, 2020

Besides disposable bathroom-grade* romance novels, the only book I ever started but didn't finish was Charles Dickens's Our Mutual Friend. I'm a huge Dickens fan; it just got to a point where I realized I wasn't emotionally invested in any of the characters anymore and didn't particularly care what happened to them in the end.

*I am in no way comparing trade paperbacks in the romance genre to bodily waste of any kind. I'm simply referring to titles that are sufficiently light and unengaging that they're suitable to keep in the bathroom, where you only need something to glance at for a few minutes at a time. And the majority of them are good enough to finish in installments. But more and more, because the publishing business has been skimping on editing and proofreading since the last few economic downturns, a lot of them have such glaring errors in Chapter One that it sort of sours the whole punch bowl for me.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 4:18 PM on April 30, 2020

I've always felt free to stop reading any book that I was reading for pleasure, even when I was a girl, and never understood why people felt opening a book up was a commitment (and yup, ADHD here). I use GoodReads and I've had friends comment on how many books I have on my "didn't finish" shelf as if it were odd that I give up on so many. But there are so many books in the world! Move on! Read one you enjoy! Re-read one that will give you the feelings you want to feel!
posted by The corpse in the library at 4:30 PM on April 30, 2020

regarding the gender imbalance for task completion, in NASA experiments with isolation chambers (hours to hit the relief button), female astronauts scored much higher than male astronauts ('Promised The Moon' by Stephanie Nolan)
posted by ovvl at 4:47 PM on April 30, 2020 [3 favorites]

I have no problem putting down books that aren't working for me. But with books I read on the Kindle, those come exclusively from the library, and so I don't even have the feeling of investment of having carried them home or having spent money to push me to keep going. I shut down quite a few after just a few pages -- you can tell when the writing is bad, or just not to your tastes.

Of books people have been mentioning above, I can't remember exactly how far I made it in Infinite Jest or a couple of Neal Stephenson books, but it wasn't far.
posted by Dip Flash at 5:18 PM on April 30, 2020 [1 favorite]

I am usually among the first to defend Stephenson, but the only reason I finished Fall was because I've read Reamde twice and am in love with Zula.

I've been taking flack for years from friends for rereading favorite books, but this year started an effort to read more new books than rereads. That lasted until quarantine; I read seven new books in the first two months of the year. Now I'm having problems retaining interest in anything new and am going back to old favorites voraciously. Comfort reading.
posted by lhauser at 5:34 PM on April 30, 2020 [3 favorites]

lol, I will go back and look at all the posts previous to this time. I was a speed reader since the late 1960s. I generally am in the process of reading 3-5 books at a time. I have Kindle Unlimited for just the fluffy stuff to keep me occupied. Right now, I am very busy at work, so can't read as much as I want to. Anyways, if a book doesn't catch my attention for a few chapters, I read it anyways. Just make a mental note to not touch anything from the author if I don't like it. Really, rofl, I'm the guy who read IBM manuals back in the day, for amusement.

(And yes, I got kicked out of junior high graduation from John Muir Junior High School due to missing books back in the 60s)
posted by baegucb at 5:50 PM on April 30, 2020

Well, I know that you're all waiting for an update on my book report for Alan Moore's 'Jerusalem' (my comment on the Moore thread was: "well... it's something")

'Jerusalem' is a 1200 page doorstop, it's divided into 3 parts approx 400 pages each. Moore is a writer who expects his readers to do some of the heavy lifting.

The first part is 400 pages of a bunch of surreal vignettes of random stuff happening through time in Northampton, with a layer of phantom coal dust grit drifting over it all. (This could be 'bail' material for a reasonable reader)

The second part has been described as "a demented children's book"; it's a swell plot about a cool gang of plucky ghost kids having fun adventures across various dimensions. (skip the first part and start here if you like a narrative style of story)

The third part is where it all comes together, I think? (I'm only part way in, stay tuned)...
posted by ovvl at 6:08 PM on April 30, 2020

You don’t need to eat the entire fish to know...

It was good in parts, said the curate.
posted by clew at 6:20 PM on April 30, 2020 [1 favorite]

Yeah, I was going to comment that ADHD is about 50% more prevalent in men than women

Well, it’s certainly more likely to be diagnosed among men/boys than among women/girls. Even when symptoms present similarly among us, in a world that thinks of male symptomatic presentation as “default,” those symptoms seem to be written off as deliberate, unladylike, and attributed to character flaws.

I have a whole book about it but I’ve barely cracked the thing open.
posted by armeowda at 6:50 PM on April 30, 2020 [9 favorites]

I’ve said it before here, but my Goodreads reviews make it look like I’m an indiscriminate reader who loves every book I read, but really it’s just because if I don’t like a book within about 25 pages, I abandon it and don’t bother writing a review. So I only end up finishing books I like. Life is too short!
posted by hurdy gurdy girl at 8:59 PM on April 30, 2020 [6 favorites]

There have been a handful of books I've read that I thought were so good it was very difficult to read them.

Virginia Woolf's The Waves for example, gave me feelings which were like a combination of when your foot falls asleep but you have to walk on it anyway, and when somebody who is either bigger and stronger than you, or someone you can't use physical force against whatever the provocation, is tickling you and won't stop no matter how you plead.

I had to read it for a class and didn't want to; I thought she delighted in being cruel to vulnerable people and was an intellectual snob of the worst sort, with very few original ideas of her own to back it up and a startling lack of insight about herself — and I largely still feel that way.

But when I picked up the paperback and opened it to an accidental page somewhere in the middle I was almost immediately overwhelmed. A handful of long paragraphs and ripples of tingling were rolling back and forth across my scalp and I just couldn't take it anymore.

I didn't finish the book until the end of the semester and didn't have a word to say about it in class or elsewhere.

I don't think I can claim to have understood it or gotten anything out of it except the experience of encountering prose that was truly electrifying. When I read many years later in maybe the third volume of the five volume Diary her description of The Waves as "the greatest stretch of mind I ever knew" it was obscurely cheering, and helped allay an anxiety I had been carrying all that time but which I had only subliminally been aware of.

I tell myself I should try to read it again before I die, but every time I see a copy I find myself thinking "I don't think so!"
posted by jamjam at 11:54 PM on April 30, 2020 [4 favorites]

I can remember being about sixteen and reading On The Road, I think I was about twenty pages in and reading something about the good things in life being women, drugs and alcohol (it was over twenty years ago, I can't remember exactly) and then I thought, 'I am absolutely not the target audience for this. Hey, I don't have to finish this very tiresome book!'

And I never did.
posted by HypotheticalWoman at 12:20 AM on May 1, 2020 [3 favorites]

Strange place, the Audience Agency. Couldn't find the study in question, but without knowing the number of people and books tracked, the statements are diverting, but kind of useless.

Which is not to say better data are useless. Jellybooks have been tracking this sort of thing for past five years. Marketing, you see. My worry is, this kind of data will influence publishers' editorial decisions. Ebooks suit some kinds of reading (light & genre), less so others (serious nonfiction).
posted by BWA at 5:36 AM on May 1, 2020

The first book I ever just stopped was the 3rd in the Dune. there was lots I enjoyed about the books, obviously, I'd made it through the first 2. But at one point it just slapped me in the face, and I said "Wow, he really hates women, huh?" and then just stopped reading and decided to never read it again.
posted by FirstMateKate at 8:08 AM on May 1, 2020 [1 favorite]

I rarely give up on a book. However, I am "in the middle" of 40 or so because I keep starting new ones.
posted by Obscure Reference at 8:44 AM on May 1, 2020 [1 favorite]

I read a lot of Dean Koontz when I was in high school, and I was a big fan. Fast forward twenty years and I picked up one of his books again, wondering if I would see it differently now. I think the book was "Lightning."

I didn't make it 50 pages. I didn't even make it 25 pages. The dialogue was so laughably bad right at the onset that I knew it couldn't get any better. I gave my high school self a little mental slap on the head for liking such crap, closed the book, and later gave it away. I have no regrets.
posted by zardoz at 3:58 PM on May 1, 2020 [2 favorites]

I find it fascinating that someone would feel obligated to read a novel from cover to cover, simply because it is in their hands. I don't do that with television, films, songs on the radio... why would I do that with a book?

It took a few tries, but I did learn to appreciate Hilary Mantel. I do not enjoy her non-Tudor works, however. Same thing about Mira Grant/Seanan McGuire, Daniel Woodrell, Jim Butcher, even Jane Austen.
I'm re-reading the Peter Grant series before taking up the latest Ben Aaronovitch, but I am under no constraint to read the whole thing if it bores me. I am more likely to skip to the last chapter and read to the middle, if anything.

Subject matter, writing style, editing (or lack of) can make an anticipated read dull and unappealing. Maybe later I'll feel like another try, but there are other books on the library shelves (oh, how I miss the library!)
Sample, then set aside. If it's beckoning, I'll be back.
When it stops being fun, let it go.

Question: if reading a book is not a pleasurable experience, is listening to the same book more satisfying?
posted by TrishaU at 5:11 PM on May 1, 2020 [1 favorite]

It depends on the audiobook. The reader for Hilary Mantle’s latest is amazing — I find I’m listening to it more than I’m reading it (I can skip back and forth using the Kindle app). And I gave up on reading Emily Wilson’s translation of the Odyssey after I started listening to the audiobook version and realized that was (for me) the right way to appreciate it. Those are both books I like in print, though. I don’t know if a book can be salvaged.
posted by The corpse in the library at 7:35 AM on May 2, 2020

Question: if reading a book is not a pleasurable experience, is listening to the same book more satisfying?

For me, yes, sometimes. I use audiobooks mostly for falling asleep at night. Particularly for falling asleep, I'm happy with simpler books with a lot of what you might call "blah blah blah" -- long descriptions, lots of detail, not a lot actually happening at any given point in time -- and want to avoid books with edge-of-your-seat situations or a lot of narrative complexity, which keep me awake.

So there are books that I totally bounce off of in one format that turn out to be great in another format. That said, if the problem is terrible writing, changing formats isn't going to make me start liking it.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:44 AM on May 2, 2020 [2 favorites]

I just know that you're all waiting for the final completion of my book report on Alan Moore's 'Jerusalem'. The last section of 400~ pages goes through some writing-school experimental exercises depicting chapters in various literary styles, including a loving homage to Finnegan's-era Joyce.

I would recommend this book to a patient reader with a curiousity about English Mysticism. There are some interesting parts about old rebel English History, and various transformations in English culture & urban gentrification...

I would not recommend this book to a reader who enjoys a tight narrative & a straightforward plot. There is a kinda plot, but it's on a winding crooked path...

My view is that this book is a flawed work of genius. Moore has scenes of brilliance: he can be witty, insightful, perceptive, & inspired. He also has rather many pages of turgid slogging to get through between these moments. He would really benefit from a decent editor, but that's also the point: he has a quirky personal vision that defies editing...

But if this book could cut out at least half of the sloggy ponderous pages, then could this maybe be a classic? Or would that change its essential nature?
posted by ovvl at 6:49 PM on May 17, 2020