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June 4, 2020 10:43 PM Subscribe
It is the 31st anniversary of the Tiananmen Square massacre, when the Chinese government killed their own citizens for protesting. Thousands of Hong Kongers defy the police ban to commemorate the event.
Taiwanese president Tsai Ing-Wen posted a short, poignant message on Twitter and Facebook to mark the day. Rui Zhong argues that Tiananmen can happen in the US, that the US has not learned the right lessons. The Nation reminds us that Tiananmen was not just about democracy, but also about workers' rights. The Black Lives Matter protests in the US have given the Chinese government an opening to accuse the US of hypocrisy in their support for the Hong Kong protesters, who are currently dreading the implementation of the Hong Kong national security law, which would, in effect, end the era of "One Country, Two Systems".
Previously.
Taiwanese president Tsai Ing-Wen posted a short, poignant message on Twitter and Facebook to mark the day. Rui Zhong argues that Tiananmen can happen in the US, that the US has not learned the right lessons. The Nation reminds us that Tiananmen was not just about democracy, but also about workers' rights. The Black Lives Matter protests in the US have given the Chinese government an opening to accuse the US of hypocrisy in their support for the Hong Kong protesters, who are currently dreading the implementation of the Hong Kong national security law, which would, in effect, end the era of "One Country, Two Systems".
Previously.
.
posted by scaryblackdeath at 11:07 PM on June 4, 2020
posted by scaryblackdeath at 11:07 PM on June 4, 2020
Something I remember from a news report, covering the student sit-ins in Tienamen that happened before the massacre: some US news reporter was talking to students there, and one of them was a hands-down adorable young woman with a big sunny smile who said "Why should the government be afraid of us? Why should they be afraid of me? I'm just an ordinary harmless student!" Said with a big dimpled smile.
The massacre was a couple days later, and I've always wondered what happened to her.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:48 AM on June 5, 2020 [16 favorites]
The massacre was a couple days later, and I've always wondered what happened to her.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:48 AM on June 5, 2020 [16 favorites]
The soldiers fired back. Result : between 250 and 300 dead including soldiers.
Declassified cables state that the estimated death toll was at least 10,000. The source was allegedly a member of China’s State Council, who passed the information to the British ambassador at the time, Alan Donald.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 4:36 AM on June 5, 2020 [10 favorites]
Declassified cables state that the estimated death toll was at least 10,000. The source was allegedly a member of China’s State Council, who passed the information to the British ambassador at the time, Alan Donald.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 4:36 AM on June 5, 2020 [10 favorites]
That is because the Chinese government has spent the last 30 years trying to erase the events of Tiananmen Square from history.
Indeed. They began immediately. My wife was living less than a mile from the Square, on the other side of Coal Hill, and last I knew still denied that there was a massacre. When the government controls all of the news you hear, it's difficult to believe that their version of a story is completely false. The massacre is one of several topics she won't talk about.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 4:38 AM on June 5, 2020 [3 favorites]
Indeed. They began immediately. My wife was living less than a mile from the Square, on the other side of Coal Hill, and last I knew still denied that there was a massacre. When the government controls all of the news you hear, it's difficult to believe that their version of a story is completely false. The massacre is one of several topics she won't talk about.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 4:38 AM on June 5, 2020 [3 favorites]
It was probably 10 years ago at this point, but I remember reading something where the reporter talked to Chinese citizens in China about the massacre. What struck me was how many people were indifferent to whether it happened or not. That believing or not believing would make no difference in their lives. I thought that was a very interesting mindset and not one that would be present in the west.
posted by LizBoBiz at 4:51 AM on June 5, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by LizBoBiz at 4:51 AM on June 5, 2020 [4 favorites]
It was probably 10 years ago at this point, but I remember reading something where the reporter talked to Chinese citizens in China about the massacre.
China has spent the last 30 years trying to erase it from history.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 5:26 AM on June 5, 2020 [5 favorites]
China has spent the last 30 years trying to erase it from history.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 5:26 AM on June 5, 2020 [5 favorites]
I have no idea what report you mean, but it sounds like you think the statements people in China make about Tiananmen* to Western reporters are an accurate indication of their private opinions.
* Mnemonic: one E, two A's, three N's
posted by meaty shoe puppet at 5:36 AM on June 5, 2020 [7 favorites]
* Mnemonic: one E, two A's, three N's
posted by meaty shoe puppet at 5:36 AM on June 5, 2020 [7 favorites]
My 8th grade social studies teacher, in Taiwan, had a poster of Tank Man high up in a dark corner of the classroom. He referred to it only once, and only one or two of the more savvy Asian boys said they "knew" what it meant. I certainly didn't. Maybe East Asian political history would've been covered by junior year, but at the end of 8th grade my family had immigrated.
My parents did not teach me any such history, and of course such things were not covered in a Canadian high school. Like, I only learned last year, from reddit, that the tanks were used in gruesome ways against the protesters, as documented by the UK envoy and available photos. I did not click the photos. I wonder what my teacher would think, of the events this year.
We usually think of trauma as a result triggered by an event or a memory. Ongoing historical erasure and censorship are meta-events that those in power use to thwart healing and reconciliation.
posted by polymodus at 5:40 AM on June 5, 2020 [15 favorites]
My parents did not teach me any such history, and of course such things were not covered in a Canadian high school. Like, I only learned last year, from reddit, that the tanks were used in gruesome ways against the protesters, as documented by the UK envoy and available photos. I did not click the photos. I wonder what my teacher would think, of the events this year.
We usually think of trauma as a result triggered by an event or a memory. Ongoing historical erasure and censorship are meta-events that those in power use to thwart healing and reconciliation.
posted by polymodus at 5:40 AM on June 5, 2020 [15 favorites]
I have no idea what report you mean, but it sounds like you think the statements people in China make about Tiananmen* to Western reporters are an accurate indication of their private opinions.
yeah. i agree.
given what i've read about China (and NK) i would not expect any citizen of either country who is currently residing in said country nor who has family still in that country to speak openly to any western reporter, pseudonym or not.
the reporter is watched and watches who they talk to.
posted by affectionateborg at 5:47 AM on June 5, 2020 [6 favorites]
yeah. i agree.
given what i've read about China (and NK) i would not expect any citizen of either country who is currently residing in said country nor who has family still in that country to speak openly to any western reporter, pseudonym or not.
the reporter is watched and watches who they talk to.
posted by affectionateborg at 5:47 AM on June 5, 2020 [6 favorites]
> > What struck me was how many people were indifferent to whether it happened or not. That believing or not believing would make no difference in their lives.
> it sounds like you think the statements people in China make about Tiananmen* to Western reporters are an accurate indication of their private opinions.
If you are living in a state that will generally suppress you or sequester you away for "reeducation", a reasonably pragmatic course of action is to signal those behaviours that are approved by the state -- either repeating beliefs in line with the state's official position on events, or generally expressing disinterest in the topic. There's not a lot to gain other wise and a lot to lose.
If the state works effectively at suppressing dissent, people who express differing opinions or behaviour, or show an unusual curiosity about problematic topics will have more limited opportunities.
posted by are-coral-made at 5:49 AM on June 5, 2020 [5 favorites]
> it sounds like you think the statements people in China make about Tiananmen* to Western reporters are an accurate indication of their private opinions.
If you are living in a state that will generally suppress you or sequester you away for "reeducation", a reasonably pragmatic course of action is to signal those behaviours that are approved by the state -- either repeating beliefs in line with the state's official position on events, or generally expressing disinterest in the topic. There's not a lot to gain other wise and a lot to lose.
If the state works effectively at suppressing dissent, people who express differing opinions or behaviour, or show an unusual curiosity about problematic topics will have more limited opportunities.
posted by are-coral-made at 5:49 AM on June 5, 2020 [5 favorites]
Totally agree meaty shoe pupper and are-coral-made and thanks for bringing up that point
posted by LizBoBiz at 6:02 AM on June 5, 2020
posted by LizBoBiz at 6:02 AM on June 5, 2020
My parents did not teach me any such history, and of course such things were not covered in a Canadian high school. Like, I only learned last year, from reddit, that the tanks were used in gruesome ways against the protesters, as documented by the UK envoy and available photos. I did not click the photos. I wonder what my teacher would think, of the events this year.
To judge from comments on news stories covering First Nations protesters blocking train tracks last winter, some portion of our fellow Canadians believe that the tanks should have run him down.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:35 AM on June 5, 2020 [4 favorites]
To judge from comments on news stories covering First Nations protesters blocking train tracks last winter, some portion of our fellow Canadians believe that the tanks should have run him down.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:35 AM on June 5, 2020 [4 favorites]
I thought that was a very interesting mindset and not one that would be present in the west.
I don’t know about that. If the last four years have taught us anything here in the US, it is that we are capable of believing almost anything if it means we can maintain our personal comfort.
posted by Big Al 8000 at 7:36 AM on June 5, 2020 [13 favorites]
I don’t know about that. If the last four years have taught us anything here in the US, it is that we are capable of believing almost anything if it means we can maintain our personal comfort.
posted by Big Al 8000 at 7:36 AM on June 5, 2020 [13 favorites]
I'm from the US, but one of my earliest memories is watching the Tiananmen Square student protests on the news while my parents talked about what was happening.
some US news reporter was talking to students there, and one of them was a hands-down adorable young woman with a big sunny smile who said "Why should the government be afraid of us? Why should they be afraid of me? I'm just an ordinary harmless student!" Said with a big dimpled smile.
It was probably 10 years ago at this point, but I remember reading something where the reporter talked to Chinese citizens in China about the massacre. What struck me was how many people were indifferent to whether it happened or not. That believing or not believing would make no difference in their lives. I thought that was a very interesting mindset and not one that would be present in the west.
Another formative memory was growing up in the 90's, where every year in early June, adults would share vague descriptions of reports like this along with theories about the interesting / foreign mindset of the Chinese. Smiling and harmless, indifferent, scary and authoritarian. As a child, that "oh what a curiosity" perspective felt alienating, and as an adult it feels scary in a different way. If we look at the Tiananmen Square protests and the aftermath as something that happened to some Other group with a resigned indifference that was always part of that Other culture, it can be dismissed as some fluke that happened to someone else, nothing to be concerned about. But that's not what happened, and it's important not to miss that. That resigned indifference, the compliance - that isn't some ingrained Chinese trait, nor are resistance or protesting uniquely Western. It comes from quashing resistance and protests instead of considering dissenting opinions. The weight of Tiananmen Square also includes what happened in the decades after. It's not some faraway foreign horror but something that could happen again now, to people not so different from you or me.
posted by photoelectric at 7:37 AM on June 5, 2020 [7 favorites]
some US news reporter was talking to students there, and one of them was a hands-down adorable young woman with a big sunny smile who said "Why should the government be afraid of us? Why should they be afraid of me? I'm just an ordinary harmless student!" Said with a big dimpled smile.
It was probably 10 years ago at this point, but I remember reading something where the reporter talked to Chinese citizens in China about the massacre. What struck me was how many people were indifferent to whether it happened or not. That believing or not believing would make no difference in their lives. I thought that was a very interesting mindset and not one that would be present in the west.
Another formative memory was growing up in the 90's, where every year in early June, adults would share vague descriptions of reports like this along with theories about the interesting / foreign mindset of the Chinese. Smiling and harmless, indifferent, scary and authoritarian. As a child, that "oh what a curiosity" perspective felt alienating, and as an adult it feels scary in a different way. If we look at the Tiananmen Square protests and the aftermath as something that happened to some Other group with a resigned indifference that was always part of that Other culture, it can be dismissed as some fluke that happened to someone else, nothing to be concerned about. But that's not what happened, and it's important not to miss that. That resigned indifference, the compliance - that isn't some ingrained Chinese trait, nor are resistance or protesting uniquely Western. It comes from quashing resistance and protests instead of considering dissenting opinions. The weight of Tiananmen Square also includes what happened in the decades after. It's not some faraway foreign horror but something that could happen again now, to people not so different from you or me.
posted by photoelectric at 7:37 AM on June 5, 2020 [7 favorites]
I forgot about this last night, but Rui Zhong mentioned in her Twitter feed that at least one general refused orders.
“I’d rather be beheaded than be a criminal in the eyes of history,” he told Yang Jisheng, a historian.
The article is from 2014.
posted by toastyk at 7:38 AM on June 5, 2020 [7 favorites]
“I’d rather be beheaded than be a criminal in the eyes of history,” he told Yang Jisheng, a historian.
The article is from 2014.
posted by toastyk at 7:38 AM on June 5, 2020 [7 favorites]
.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 8:15 AM on June 5, 2020
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 8:15 AM on June 5, 2020
and of course such things were not covered in a Canadian high school.
It was taught in my Canadian elementary school, and not that long after the massacre happened (probably 1992-93). We were assigned to read Forbidden City by William Bell, a Canadian YA novel that dramatizes the event from the perspective of a Western teen. Thanks to that teacher I was aware of the massacre from an early age but didn't realize until later that it wasn't general knowledge, like how World War II is.
Declassified cables state that the estimated death toll was at least 10,000.
That I didn't know. God what a terrible event.
posted by good in a vacuum at 8:20 AM on June 5, 2020 [1 favorite]
It was taught in my Canadian elementary school, and not that long after the massacre happened (probably 1992-93). We were assigned to read Forbidden City by William Bell, a Canadian YA novel that dramatizes the event from the perspective of a Western teen. Thanks to that teacher I was aware of the massacre from an early age but didn't realize until later that it wasn't general knowledge, like how World War II is.
Declassified cables state that the estimated death toll was at least 10,000.
That I didn't know. God what a terrible event.
posted by good in a vacuum at 8:20 AM on June 5, 2020 [1 favorite]
Last year I found out one of my coworkers genuinely just doesn't believe it happened - this is a very smart, well-educated (in the science/technology domain) young guy from China who would have either been very young or not born at the time. He dismissed the video footage available on youtube as like, deep fakes or something. And I mean, I can get that it would be hard to accept that the system you grew up under (that you excelled in and that, for you, personally, worked very well) would be capable of such things. But that denial shook me way more than I thought it would.
My family is from Hong Kong, and for my cousins who were around student age in 1989, Tiananmen Square basically shaped their lives - my cousin was studying abroad to become a civil engineer at the time and instead she has spent the last 25 years working for the pro-democracy lobby, her brother became a journalist fighting for free press and so on. My parents told me a brief (extremely sanitized but still traumatic version) of what happened when I asked about the yearly memorials on TV as a kid, and when we went on a trip Beijing when I was about 11 they made sure to point out the heavy security presence and why on when we visited Tiananmen Square. We cracked "jokes" about getting dragged away by the police. To have that all dismissed by this guy - who is very nice! great coworker! - in a hand wave of "oh, you can fake anything on video these days" fuckin shook me for a long time.
Anyway, thank god for smartphone cameras and (ugh) Twitter, because it is a whole lot harder to lie about what happened today in 2020 than in 1989. When I was home at my parents' last summer I would get out of bed in the morning and find my dad watching like, live streams of the protests that evening (time zone difference) as if it were the morning news - a lot of confused shouting and tear gas canisters going off. Hong Kongers are now translating and sharing what they've learned about how to deal with tear gas (both in a protest context and also if, y'know, the police just gas your neighbourhood for no reason). My heart goes out to everyone fighting for justice and freedom, but most of all for the people of Hong Kong, who have been fighting so fiercely for so long against an adversary so huge and seemingly unstoppable. 香港人 加油 !
posted by btfreek at 8:21 AM on June 5, 2020 [21 favorites]
My family is from Hong Kong, and for my cousins who were around student age in 1989, Tiananmen Square basically shaped their lives - my cousin was studying abroad to become a civil engineer at the time and instead she has spent the last 25 years working for the pro-democracy lobby, her brother became a journalist fighting for free press and so on. My parents told me a brief (extremely sanitized but still traumatic version) of what happened when I asked about the yearly memorials on TV as a kid, and when we went on a trip Beijing when I was about 11 they made sure to point out the heavy security presence and why on when we visited Tiananmen Square. We cracked "jokes" about getting dragged away by the police. To have that all dismissed by this guy - who is very nice! great coworker! - in a hand wave of "oh, you can fake anything on video these days" fuckin shook me for a long time.
Anyway, thank god for smartphone cameras and (ugh) Twitter, because it is a whole lot harder to lie about what happened today in 2020 than in 1989. When I was home at my parents' last summer I would get out of bed in the morning and find my dad watching like, live streams of the protests that evening (time zone difference) as if it were the morning news - a lot of confused shouting and tear gas canisters going off. Hong Kongers are now translating and sharing what they've learned about how to deal with tear gas (both in a protest context and also if, y'know, the police just gas your neighbourhood for no reason). My heart goes out to everyone fighting for justice and freedom, but most of all for the people of Hong Kong, who have been fighting so fiercely for so long against an adversary so huge and seemingly unstoppable. 香港人 加油 !
posted by btfreek at 8:21 AM on June 5, 2020 [21 favorites]
The protesters in Hong Kong have been such an inspiration, and the security law and what it portends are so scary. I don't know what to say but that we'll all need this courage and it's good to keep reminding ourselves. Thank you for this post, for the pictures from Victoria Park and from 1989.
posted by LobsterMitten at 8:31 AM on June 5, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by LobsterMitten at 8:31 AM on June 5, 2020 [3 favorites]
I did not click the photos.
I did. Somehow, I guess because Tank Man has become the visual shorthand for the incident and was my primary reference, I had not understood before now what those tanks actually did to so many protesters and their bodies.
posted by ocherdraco at 8:43 AM on June 5, 2020
I did. Somehow, I guess because Tank Man has become the visual shorthand for the incident and was my primary reference, I had not understood before now what those tanks actually did to so many protesters and their bodies.
posted by ocherdraco at 8:43 AM on June 5, 2020
I have an acquaintance who smuggled out photos of the massacre in their kid's diaper. As far as I know they never shared them, and are currently working in China.
posted by mecran01 at 10:17 AM on June 5, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by mecran01 at 10:17 AM on June 5, 2020 [1 favorite]
My parents did not teach me any such history, and of course such things were not covered in a Canadian high school.
It was covered in Canadian schools when it happened; I was 12 and we were all aware - and I later had a teacher talk about both that and the Berlin Wall coming down (same year). However, this was all informal; formal history as taught in Canadian schools (at least in Ontario) rarely got past WWII.*
History taught in Canadian schools is shockingly void of any discussion of indigenous people during the colonial period (only before) and focused almost exclusively on Canada, Europe and the US. We should have been studying more Asian and African history in our general courses. But I still doubt we would have gotten to the Tiananmen massacre as history - for most people, it was and still is relatively current events.
Maybe it's because I live in a city (Toronto) with a large Chinese-Canadian population and strong ties to China, as well as Hong Kong and Taiwan, but the memory of the massacre is strong - and was especially on campus when I was a student. Both York University and the University of Toronto had memorials in c2000 - and the York memorial (a gold replica of the Goddess of Democracy) was in a very central location where you saw it almost every day. It was later removed, but was replaced a year later by a bronze version.
The memorial at the University of Toronto is harder to find, but more poignant: a image of a crushed bicycle.
Tienanmen is an ancient square - so much history has happened there, including the protests of the May 4th Movement that lead to the founding of the Chinese Communist party -- the choice of the location for the 1989 democracy activists was no coincidence. But now when I hear the name of the Gate of Heavenly Peace, I only remember the massacres.
*We also never studied the Cold War, I had to do an independent project to try and learn about the Vietnam war, and I didn't know about the riots of 1968 in France until my 30s, when my SO was lecturing on the global civil unrest of that year. I only knew about the American Watts riots (1965) thanks to Quantum leap.
posted by jb at 11:12 AM on June 5, 2020 [5 favorites]
It was covered in Canadian schools when it happened; I was 12 and we were all aware - and I later had a teacher talk about both that and the Berlin Wall coming down (same year). However, this was all informal; formal history as taught in Canadian schools (at least in Ontario) rarely got past WWII.*
History taught in Canadian schools is shockingly void of any discussion of indigenous people during the colonial period (only before) and focused almost exclusively on Canada, Europe and the US. We should have been studying more Asian and African history in our general courses. But I still doubt we would have gotten to the Tiananmen massacre as history - for most people, it was and still is relatively current events.
Maybe it's because I live in a city (Toronto) with a large Chinese-Canadian population and strong ties to China, as well as Hong Kong and Taiwan, but the memory of the massacre is strong - and was especially on campus when I was a student. Both York University and the University of Toronto had memorials in c2000 - and the York memorial (a gold replica of the Goddess of Democracy) was in a very central location where you saw it almost every day. It was later removed, but was replaced a year later by a bronze version.
The memorial at the University of Toronto is harder to find, but more poignant: a image of a crushed bicycle.
Tienanmen is an ancient square - so much history has happened there, including the protests of the May 4th Movement that lead to the founding of the Chinese Communist party -- the choice of the location for the 1989 democracy activists was no coincidence. But now when I hear the name of the Gate of Heavenly Peace, I only remember the massacres.
*We also never studied the Cold War, I had to do an independent project to try and learn about the Vietnam war, and I didn't know about the riots of 1968 in France until my 30s, when my SO was lecturing on the global civil unrest of that year. I only knew about the American Watts riots (1965) thanks to Quantum leap.
posted by jb at 11:12 AM on June 5, 2020 [5 favorites]
My sister-in-law grew up in southwestern China, lived in Beijing for several years, and since 2006 has lived in the US. The one time the massacre was mentioned in my hearing--here in the US--her response was something to the effect of, "The students deserved it."
I think the Chinese government has done a very effective job of either erasing the memory or convincing the population that the government's actions were justified. I'm sure many people know the truth but it's not safe to talk about it or try to share the evidence.
posted by suelac at 12:08 PM on June 5, 2020 [4 favorites]
I think the Chinese government has done a very effective job of either erasing the memory or convincing the population that the government's actions were justified. I'm sure many people know the truth but it's not safe to talk about it or try to share the evidence.
posted by suelac at 12:08 PM on June 5, 2020 [4 favorites]
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