Surveillance. Harassment. A live cockroach delivery.
June 16, 2020 8:05 PM Subscribe
US attorneys have charged six former eBay workers in association with an outrageous cyberstalking campaign. “If we are ever going to take her down..now is the time,” the first message read, according to a screengrab of the thread. Later, the executive emphasized, “I want her DONE.” What followed was a campaign of harassment so strange and outrageous, its hard to believe.
"In addition the following defendants were charged in an Information unsealed today: Stephanie Popp, 32, of San Jose, eBay’s former Senior Manager of Global Intelligence; Stephanie Stockwell, 26, of Redwood City, Calif., the former manager of eBay’s Global Intelligence Center (GIC); Veronica Zea, 26, of San Jose, a former eBay contractor who worked as an intelligence analyst in the GIC; and Brian Gilbert, 51, of San Jose, a former Senior Manager of Special Operations for eBay’s Global Security Team."
Mr. Gilbert, it is noted, is a former Santa Clara police captain.
posted by mhoye at 8:31 PM on June 16, 2020 [21 favorites]
Mr. Gilbert, it is noted, is a former Santa Clara police captain.
posted by mhoye at 8:31 PM on June 16, 2020 [21 favorites]
Holy shit.
posted by medusa at 8:36 PM on June 16, 2020 [8 favorites]
posted by medusa at 8:36 PM on June 16, 2020 [8 favorites]
Holy shit
posted by capnsue at 8:42 PM on June 16, 2020 [6 favorites]
posted by capnsue at 8:42 PM on June 16, 2020 [6 favorites]
Holy moley
I guess what I wonder is what was the budget for this operation? Can eBay contractors just buy literally absolutely anything for any purpose and rebill eBay without anyone asking for any justification, or did finance approve purchases of cockroaches and funeral wreaths?
posted by aubilenon at 8:44 PM on June 16, 2020 [8 favorites]
I guess what I wonder is what was the budget for this operation? Can eBay contractors just buy literally absolutely anything for any purpose and rebill eBay without anyone asking for any justification, or did finance approve purchases of cockroaches and funeral wreaths?
posted by aubilenon at 8:44 PM on June 16, 2020 [8 favorites]
Can you imagine working for a big company like eBay and caring this much about its reputation? And because someone wrote a newsletter article?
posted by picea at 8:47 PM on June 16, 2020 [15 favorites]
posted by picea at 8:47 PM on June 16, 2020 [15 favorites]
The more I run into people with titles like "Senior Manager of Global XYZ" the less impressed I am with the quality of senior staff being employed by ANY of the major corporations.
65% morons, 25% evil morons, 10% clever folks, I swear.
(some of the clever folks may also be evil, but I assume they're also sharp enough to avoid my casual detection)
posted by aramaic at 8:48 PM on June 16, 2020 [27 favorites]
65% morons, 25% evil morons, 10% clever folks, I swear.
(some of the clever folks may also be evil, but I assume they're also sharp enough to avoid my casual detection)
posted by aramaic at 8:48 PM on June 16, 2020 [27 favorites]
Why are people?
posted by matildaben at 8:50 PM on June 16, 2020 [13 favorites]
posted by matildaben at 8:50 PM on June 16, 2020 [13 favorites]
eBay contractors
I think these were eBay upper echelon, not contractors. They had money at their beck and draw, they weren't juggling a salary and a housing payment in 'the right neighborhood'.
posted by hippybear at 8:51 PM on June 16, 2020 [6 favorites]
I think these were eBay upper echelon, not contractors. They had money at their beck and draw, they weren't juggling a salary and a housing payment in 'the right neighborhood'.
posted by hippybear at 8:51 PM on June 16, 2020 [6 favorites]
I heard about this a few days ago cuz Natick. I'm not sure what to think. Do other large corporate entities have terror tactic ratfucking operations? Are the highest level eeeeebay people being charged? I mean, I can think of several people I'd love to send live pests to, and they deserve it, but how do I do it smarter than these jerks?
posted by vrakatar at 8:53 PM on June 16, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by vrakatar at 8:53 PM on June 16, 2020 [3 favorites]
I think these were eBay upper echelon, not contractors
So can they just buy as much cockroaches and funeral wreaths as they want, on eBay's dime, for personal use?
posted by aubilenon at 9:04 PM on June 16, 2020 [5 favorites]
So can they just buy as much cockroaches and funeral wreaths as they want, on eBay's dime, for personal use?
posted by aubilenon at 9:04 PM on June 16, 2020 [5 favorites]
It's probably worth another look at what they and their commenters said about eBay to try to figure out whether they exposed something really damaging about eBay without realizing it that could have made eBay this determined to shut them up.
posted by jamjam at 9:07 PM on June 16, 2020 [14 favorites]
posted by jamjam at 9:07 PM on June 16, 2020 [14 favorites]
So can they just buy as much cockroaches and funeral wreaths as they want, on eBay's dime, for personal use?
I missed a reference to it being on eBay's wallet to pay for what they were doing, but I could have just passed over it. I assumed this was a much more personal vendetta with them opening their 1%er wallets to make it worth their while.
posted by hippybear at 9:10 PM on June 16, 2020
I missed a reference to it being on eBay's wallet to pay for what they were doing, but I could have just passed over it. I assumed this was a much more personal vendetta with them opening their 1%er wallets to make it worth their while.
posted by hippybear at 9:10 PM on June 16, 2020
They were doing it under direction from the CEO so I assumed they weren't just paying out of pocket for all of it. Were they flying to boston with their own money and taking vacation time to do this? That seems unlikely.
posted by aubilenon at 9:12 PM on June 16, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by aubilenon at 9:12 PM on June 16, 2020 [1 favorite]
Like they spent on this for a percentage of my income what I spent on one minute of electricity by income percentage. Or something. I just made that up, but it's evocative. They spent like a heartbeat's worth of interest income.
posted by hippybear at 9:12 PM on June 16, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 9:12 PM on June 16, 2020 [2 favorites]
This is entirely the top percenters harassing lower percenters, and who cares who is paying for it? The company? The top level individuals on their own? It doesn't matter. If you think it matters then you're looking at the situation wrong. This was people forced out of lives for criticizing a company that has some shitty practices. They were talking about it, the company didn't like it, they did awful things.
I apologize for the derail. It was unintentional.
posted by hippybear at 9:16 PM on June 16, 2020 [7 favorites]
I apologize for the derail. It was unintentional.
posted by hippybear at 9:16 PM on June 16, 2020 [7 favorites]
And, that comment was wrong, and was responding to a thread where people were driven out of a workplace, not people who were covering up bullshit at their work and then were revealed.
So yay, Tuesday night. *sigh* I find the money expenditure either by individuals or a corporation fairly peculiar, and I feel bad for those harassed. Where the money to do it came from doesn't matter.
Live cockroach deliveries to a house are not a thing to do unless you're really a hateful person because $REASONS. And even those should maybe be subject to review.
Okay, I'm putting this tab away for the night. Wow, bad online night mixing up threads and all kinds of stuff. Wow!
posted by hippybear at 9:23 PM on June 16, 2020 [2 favorites]
So yay, Tuesday night. *sigh* I find the money expenditure either by individuals or a corporation fairly peculiar, and I feel bad for those harassed. Where the money to do it came from doesn't matter.
Live cockroach deliveries to a house are not a thing to do unless you're really a hateful person because $REASONS. And even those should maybe be subject to review.
Okay, I'm putting this tab away for the night. Wow, bad online night mixing up threads and all kinds of stuff. Wow!
posted by hippybear at 9:23 PM on June 16, 2020 [2 favorites]
Who else did they do this to, and not get caught?
What did Devin Wenig do at Thompson Reuters? What is he doing now at GM?
Also being charged is David Harville, the Director of Global Resiliency. He was a former Army captain and program director for the Justice Department. And James Baugh, senior director of safety and security. Here's a delightful tidbit on him: "In one meeting, the FBI said, he showed a photo of what he called a Samoan gang and claimed he would send the gang to the publisher’s home if the harassment didn’t silence the newsletter."
Baugh also came up with the plan, "a tactic an affidavit says he learned from the 1988 movie 'Johnny Be Good.'"
posted by rednikki at 9:30 PM on June 16, 2020 [17 favorites]
What did Devin Wenig do at Thompson Reuters? What is he doing now at GM?
Also being charged is David Harville, the Director of Global Resiliency. He was a former Army captain and program director for the Justice Department. And James Baugh, senior director of safety and security. Here's a delightful tidbit on him: "In one meeting, the FBI said, he showed a photo of what he called a Samoan gang and claimed he would send the gang to the publisher’s home if the harassment didn’t silence the newsletter."
Baugh also came up with the plan, "a tactic an affidavit says he learned from the 1988 movie 'Johnny Be Good.'"
posted by rednikki at 9:30 PM on June 16, 2020 [17 favorites]
a systematic campaign, fueled by the resources of a Fortune 500 company
This suggests it was funded by eBay. I suppose since this was CEO-directed, there's probably a line item on a budget somewhere for "consumer relations services" or some such. I think worrying about the exact sourcing of the money probably isn't really worth it.
posted by axiom at 9:31 PM on June 16, 2020 [3 favorites]
This suggests it was funded by eBay. I suppose since this was CEO-directed, there's probably a line item on a budget somewhere for "consumer relations services" or some such. I think worrying about the exact sourcing of the money probably isn't really worth it.
posted by axiom at 9:31 PM on June 16, 2020 [3 favorites]
This is a cross between cyberpunk and high school shit. This, combined with how quickly the authorities tracked them down, makes me think that maaaaaybe those execs weren't the superior intellects they thought they were.
posted by happyroach at 9:38 PM on June 16, 2020 [8 favorites]
posted by happyroach at 9:38 PM on June 16, 2020 [8 favorites]
And when the investigation was closing in on them, they tried to frame some Samoan dude for it!
"When they realized that the gift cards they had purchased to fund their campaign could be traced back to Santa Clara, California, not far from eBay’s San Jose headquarters, they allegedly sought to “create a Samoan POI in Santa Clara,” according to a WhatsApp message quoted in the criminal complaint. (POI stands for “person of interest.”) “Then he becomes our primary suspect."
It's just insane and evil all the way down.
posted by tavella at 9:39 PM on June 16, 2020 [12 favorites]
"When they realized that the gift cards they had purchased to fund their campaign could be traced back to Santa Clara, California, not far from eBay’s San Jose headquarters, they allegedly sought to “create a Samoan POI in Santa Clara,” according to a WhatsApp message quoted in the criminal complaint. (POI stands for “person of interest.”) “Then he becomes our primary suspect."
It's just insane and evil all the way down.
posted by tavella at 9:39 PM on June 16, 2020 [12 favorites]
The whole complaint can be read here. This part was particularly chilling:
"BAUGH nevertheless stressed that the harassment campaign must remain confidential. In one of these meetings, BAUGH displayed a photograph of what he said were members of a Samoan gang. BAUGH said, in substance, that if the distraction campaign didn’t work, he would send the gang to the Victims’ home, that they were not “good guys,” and that whatever happened would be out of BAUGH’s control."
posted by tavella at 10:01 PM on June 16, 2020 [4 favorites]
"BAUGH nevertheless stressed that the harassment campaign must remain confidential. In one of these meetings, BAUGH displayed a photograph of what he said were members of a Samoan gang. BAUGH said, in substance, that if the distraction campaign didn’t work, he would send the gang to the Victims’ home, that they were not “good guys,” and that whatever happened would be out of BAUGH’s control."
posted by tavella at 10:01 PM on June 16, 2020 [4 favorites]
the fuck
“This was a determined, systematic effort by senior employees of a major company to destroy the lives of a couple in Natick, all because they published content the company executives didn’t like,”
I hope eBay gets sued enough that it hurts. That's insane. These people act like they are aristocracy.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 10:24 PM on June 16, 2020 [15 favorites]
“This was a determined, systematic effort by senior employees of a major company to destroy the lives of a couple in Natick, all because they published content the company executives didn’t like,”
I hope eBay gets sued enough that it hurts. That's insane. These people act like they are aristocracy.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 10:24 PM on June 16, 2020 [15 favorites]
Sending a married couple a book on how to cope with the death of a spouse is INCREDIBLY fucked up
posted by taquito sunrise at 10:34 PM on June 16, 2020 [11 favorites]
posted by taquito sunrise at 10:34 PM on June 16, 2020 [11 favorites]
Just mind-boggling.
The inexcusable, terrifyingly aggressive, and criminal actions are insane.
I mean even if eCommercebytes were in some way impacting eBay (and I’m betting they weren’t materially) with the resources at hand they could have literally done hundreds of things at almost no cost that probably would have helped improve the relationship with eCommercebytes.
I mean shit - when I was consulting at eBay a few times one of the nice quiet places was a phone room across from the eBay Radio “Station”. It was almost always empty - they could have had an intern manage eCommercebytes having their own segment for a few hours a week.
Or you know - Just listened to the eCommercebytes coverage, been mature enough to respond accordingly and had dialogue, and developed a better relationship while approving their service.
But no - horse heads and porn it has to be apparently. I hope they throw the book at them.
posted by inflatablekiwi at 10:46 PM on June 16, 2020 [4 favorites]
The inexcusable, terrifyingly aggressive, and criminal actions are insane.
I mean even if eCommercebytes were in some way impacting eBay (and I’m betting they weren’t materially) with the resources at hand they could have literally done hundreds of things at almost no cost that probably would have helped improve the relationship with eCommercebytes.
I mean shit - when I was consulting at eBay a few times one of the nice quiet places was a phone room across from the eBay Radio “Station”. It was almost always empty - they could have had an intern manage eCommercebytes having their own segment for a few hours a week.
Or you know - Just listened to the eCommercebytes coverage, been mature enough to respond accordingly and had dialogue, and developed a better relationship while approving their service.
But no - horse heads and porn it has to be apparently. I hope they throw the book at them.
posted by inflatablekiwi at 10:46 PM on June 16, 2020 [4 favorites]
Well, Executive 1, in the complaint filed is Devin Wenig who is crying in his $57 million dollar beer while being morose at GM. Link to Fortune -- non paywall
posted by jadepearl at 10:51 PM on June 16, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by jadepearl at 10:51 PM on June 16, 2020 [3 favorites]
Also good to see that corporate criminals still haven’t cottoned onto the “is you taking notes on a criminal fucking conspiracy” message yet.
Nice work “Global Intelligence Center” operatives. That’s some fucking smooth OpSec right there......
posted by inflatablekiwi at 10:54 PM on June 16, 2020 [10 favorites]
Nice work “Global Intelligence Center” operatives. That’s some fucking smooth OpSec right there......
posted by inflatablekiwi at 10:54 PM on June 16, 2020 [10 favorites]
I think it makes a slight difference who pays for it. Obviously not in terms of the end result for the harassed couple, but in terms of how bad the problem is within eBay. Like, if they used their eBay expense accounts or credit cards or whatever, wouldn't they have expected someone on the finance team to have spotted these purchases and query them at some point? If not, why not - where were the checks and balances?
posted by kumonoi at 11:49 PM on June 16, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by kumonoi at 11:49 PM on June 16, 2020 [2 favorites]
Flames. On the side of my face.
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 1:00 AM on June 17, 2020 [6 favorites]
posted by SecretAgentSockpuppet at 1:00 AM on June 17, 2020 [6 favorites]
Yes, serious questions about their financial controls are raised by this, and they get worse the higher up the chain the scheme was known. There is a good chance that the company should be subject to significant fines under Sarbanes-Oxley.
Not only that, but if the company did pay for this clearly unlawful campaign of terror, executives could be held personally liable for the falsified financial reports, both civilly and criminally. The jail time may not be limited to those who actively participated in the scheme. Given that Trump's appointees are currently the ones in a position to decide whether to enforce the law, the possibility seems remote.
If you see some noise about this aspect of the situation over the coming months, you can be sure that it is worse than anybody thinks. If there are SOX problems related to this, I'd expect eBay to lobby DoJ/SEC to prosecute now when they can be assured of a sweetheart plea deal that costs them a nominal fine so that the risk of significant penalty should Biden win is foreclosed entirely thanks to double jeopardy. Best not to have a sword of damocles hanging over the company's (and executives') head, if you're their legal team.
posted by wierdo at 1:20 AM on June 17, 2020 [8 favorites]
Not only that, but if the company did pay for this clearly unlawful campaign of terror, executives could be held personally liable for the falsified financial reports, both civilly and criminally. The jail time may not be limited to those who actively participated in the scheme. Given that Trump's appointees are currently the ones in a position to decide whether to enforce the law, the possibility seems remote.
If you see some noise about this aspect of the situation over the coming months, you can be sure that it is worse than anybody thinks. If there are SOX problems related to this, I'd expect eBay to lobby DoJ/SEC to prosecute now when they can be assured of a sweetheart plea deal that costs them a nominal fine so that the risk of significant penalty should Biden win is foreclosed entirely thanks to double jeopardy. Best not to have a sword of damocles hanging over the company's (and executives') head, if you're their legal team.
posted by wierdo at 1:20 AM on June 17, 2020 [8 favorites]
I expect more of these scandals of impunity to emerge from the other major digital platforms as well. Overly concentrated wealth and power, now being accrued by the FAANGS etc, has gone to their heads about the level of impunity they can stretch to under this regime. sorry administration.
posted by Mrs Potato at 2:09 AM on June 17, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by Mrs Potato at 2:09 AM on June 17, 2020 [4 favorites]
Just another day in Trumpist America
posted by a humble nudibranch at 3:18 AM on June 17, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by a humble nudibranch at 3:18 AM on June 17, 2020 [1 favorite]
If Trump has heard about this, I’m sure he’s feeling a certain sense of admiration and is probably asking some of his aides how they can do some of those things. EBay must be all kinds of fucked up. Super gross. Sorry I’m not being more eloquent but jeez.
posted by Bella Donna at 3:45 AM on June 17, 2020 [6 favorites]
posted by Bella Donna at 3:45 AM on June 17, 2020 [6 favorites]
Who else did they do this to, and not get caught?
Given the utter incompetence with which they tried to carry this out, I think this was probably their first go at it. I mean, they used a movie for ideas, were repeatedly spotted by the victims, and completely underestimated the abilities of the police.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 4:35 AM on June 17, 2020 [5 favorites]
Given the utter incompetence with which they tried to carry this out, I think this was probably their first go at it. I mean, they used a movie for ideas, were repeatedly spotted by the victims, and completely underestimated the abilities of the police.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 4:35 AM on June 17, 2020 [5 favorites]
This article at SF Chronicle seems to indicate that the content eBay went so bonkers over was to do with the move from PayPal to eBay's own Managed Payment service. It also points out that the pig's head mask was ordered on Amazon...
posted by Gin and Broadband at 4:36 AM on June 17, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by Gin and Broadband at 4:36 AM on June 17, 2020 [4 favorites]
Do other large corporate entities have terror tactic ratfucking operations?
Corporations ARE terror tactic ratfucking operations.
posted by Fizz at 5:08 AM on June 17, 2020 [13 favorites]
Corporations ARE terror tactic ratfucking operations.
posted by Fizz at 5:08 AM on June 17, 2020 [13 favorites]
It's probably worth another look at what they and their commenters said about eBay to try to figure out whether they exposed something really damaging about eBay without realizing it that could have made eBay this determined to shut them up.
posted by jamjam at 12:07 AM on June 17
For what it's worth, the affidavit says that it was this August 1 2019 article that was the final straw for executives 1&2 and led to the full-on campaign.
Gotta admit, I still don't get it. The article seems downright innocuous, it's really just a summary of a NY Times article. And while the comment section has some pretty juicy accusations, the affidavit mentions the times of the texts between the executives and they lost it so soon after the article went up that only one of those comments had been posted.
What a fascinating mess.
posted by ZaphodB at 5:16 AM on June 17, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by jamjam at 12:07 AM on June 17
For what it's worth, the affidavit says that it was this August 1 2019 article that was the final straw for executives 1&2 and led to the full-on campaign.
Gotta admit, I still don't get it. The article seems downright innocuous, it's really just a summary of a NY Times article. And while the comment section has some pretty juicy accusations, the affidavit mentions the times of the texts between the executives and they lost it so soon after the article went up that only one of those comments had been posted.
What a fascinating mess.
posted by ZaphodB at 5:16 AM on June 17, 2020 [3 favorites]
The CEO should immediately be fired from his current job and forfeit any golden parachute. If convicted he should also go to prison for 10 years or so. I have much less compassion for this than I do for something like a poor person robbing a bank because it’s so arbitrary and is deliberately focused on destroying innocent people.
posted by freecellwizard at 5:28 AM on June 17, 2020 [12 favorites]
posted by freecellwizard at 5:28 AM on June 17, 2020 [12 favorites]
They'd better watch out. You don't mess around with the rules for mailing live animals.
posted by Huffy Puffy at 5:48 AM on June 17, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by Huffy Puffy at 5:48 AM on June 17, 2020 [3 favorites]
Given the utter incompetence with which they tried to carry this out, I think this was probably their first go at it. I mean, they used a movie for ideas, were repeatedly spotted by the victims, and completely underestimated the abilities of the police.
I get the sense that if these guys were actually competent, they'd have been working for Amazon instead of eBay.
posted by Naberius at 5:50 AM on June 17, 2020 [1 favorite]
I get the sense that if these guys were actually competent, they'd have been working for Amazon instead of eBay.
posted by Naberius at 5:50 AM on June 17, 2020 [1 favorite]
AFAIK, Amazon is more into ruining the lives of its employees / “independent contractors” rather than those of customers or third parties
posted by aubilenon at 6:01 AM on June 17, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by aubilenon at 6:01 AM on June 17, 2020 [4 favorites]
The sheer sociopathy of this is boggling. And it's all of eBay that is complicit, up to the former CEO.
posted by Nelson at 6:16 AM on June 17, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by Nelson at 6:16 AM on June 17, 2020 [2 favorites]
I forget where I read that most spies are actually incompetent; they just have the protection of "national security" to cover up how incompetent they are and allow them to spin stories about their cleverness and subtlety. Maybe this is what happens when covert ops have the state security apparatus working against them instead of for them, exposing them instead of helping to cover them up.
posted by clawsoon at 6:51 AM on June 17, 2020
posted by clawsoon at 6:51 AM on June 17, 2020
This is just so batshit crazy. Also, looking through the Affidavit that someone linked above, the harassment was significantly more misogynistic than the reporting suggestions. I mean, there is some seriously disturbed hatred directed towards the poor woman.
Also I am embarrassingly obsessed with that $750 meal... I just... I guess I'm naive, but I cannot get my head around how three people could spend that much on one meal. Even if they all drank a $100 bottle of wine each, and each had the $50 main course... It just doesn't add up! I even went so far as to look up what restaurant it was (I'm that perplexed) and it's not even that fancy a place!
posted by EllaEm at 7:17 AM on June 17, 2020 [6 favorites]
Also I am embarrassingly obsessed with that $750 meal... I just... I guess I'm naive, but I cannot get my head around how three people could spend that much on one meal. Even if they all drank a $100 bottle of wine each, and each had the $50 main course... It just doesn't add up! I even went so far as to look up what restaurant it was (I'm that perplexed) and it's not even that fancy a place!
posted by EllaEm at 7:17 AM on June 17, 2020 [6 favorites]
On the financial side getting caught - one of the things that struck me was how quickly this got caught. The first contact was August 7th, the FBI got involved on August 22, and three of the people involved were put on leave on the 30th.
For my work purchase card, that's all inside one billing cycle. It'd be unusual activity, certainly, but at least where I work, no one looks at the actual expenses until I file the monthly report unless there's an actual problem with the card (like hitting the limit). Then it gets reviewed by my boss, and then our accounting folks, and all of that takes a couple of weeks to a month more.
posted by jenettsilver at 7:18 AM on June 17, 2020 [6 favorites]
For my work purchase card, that's all inside one billing cycle. It'd be unusual activity, certainly, but at least where I work, no one looks at the actual expenses until I file the monthly report unless there's an actual problem with the card (like hitting the limit). Then it gets reviewed by my boss, and then our accounting folks, and all of that takes a couple of weeks to a month more.
posted by jenettsilver at 7:18 AM on June 17, 2020 [6 favorites]
Just another day in Trumpist America
Do you honestly believe this wouldn't happen under another administration?
This is a feature of capitalism, not a bug.
To attribute it to Trump means these gigantic corporations will keep getting away with it after Trump is long gone.
posted by Ouverture at 7:29 AM on June 17, 2020 [6 favorites]
Do you honestly believe this wouldn't happen under another administration?
This is a feature of capitalism, not a bug.
To attribute it to Trump means these gigantic corporations will keep getting away with it after Trump is long gone.
posted by Ouverture at 7:29 AM on June 17, 2020 [6 favorites]
I think it makes a slight difference who pays for it. Obviously not in terms of the end result for the harassed couple, but in terms of how bad the problem is within eBay.
It's worth noting that "Special Operations, eBay Global Security Team" is a team that eBay created in response to a perceived need, staffed, provided with a mandate, funded and managed. These teams don't spontaneously burst from an executive's forehead, fully staffed and budgeted and ready to start doing shitty things for no reason, and it's a pretty clear indication that the cultural rot starts at the executive leadership level and runs deep into management.
posted by mhoye at 8:22 AM on June 17, 2020 [10 favorites]
It's worth noting that "Special Operations, eBay Global Security Team" is a team that eBay created in response to a perceived need, staffed, provided with a mandate, funded and managed. These teams don't spontaneously burst from an executive's forehead, fully staffed and budgeted and ready to start doing shitty things for no reason, and it's a pretty clear indication that the cultural rot starts at the executive leadership level and runs deep into management.
posted by mhoye at 8:22 AM on June 17, 2020 [10 favorites]
Also I am embarrassingly obsessed with that $750 meal... I just... I guess I'm naive, but I cannot get my head around how three people could spend that much on one meal. Even if they all drank a $100 bottle of wine each, and each had the $50 main course... It just doesn't add up!
Here's how I'd do it if I had a company credit card:
$20 crabcake appetizer
$12 clam chowder
$49 crab boil entree
$27 side of truffle mac & cheese
$12 side of grilled asparagus
$11 slice of cheesecake
Puts you at $131 before you even get to wine.
posted by taquito sunrise at 8:37 AM on June 17, 2020 [9 favorites]
Here's how I'd do it if I had a company credit card:
$20 crabcake appetizer
$12 clam chowder
$49 crab boil entree
$27 side of truffle mac & cheese
$12 side of grilled asparagus
$11 slice of cheesecake
Puts you at $131 before you even get to wine.
posted by taquito sunrise at 8:37 AM on June 17, 2020 [9 favorites]
I guess I'm naive, but I cannot get my head around how three people could spend that much on one meal.
The menu has several items priced MKT, which is a great way to run up a bill. A few $100 - $200 bottles of wine, and we haven't even looked at cheese, nuts, whiskys, and bourbons yet.
posted by mikelieman at 8:59 AM on June 17, 2020 [2 favorites]
The menu has several items priced MKT, which is a great way to run up a bill. A few $100 - $200 bottles of wine, and we haven't even looked at cheese, nuts, whiskys, and bourbons yet.
posted by mikelieman at 8:59 AM on June 17, 2020 [2 favorites]
It's just a bunch of big-headed kids with big titles and a lot of money who thought being an "intelligence center" made them the CIA or something. Collection, analysis, and emergency planning is boring, let's do a black op.
Their maturity level is clearly not up to the task of being senior management of anything bigger than a car wash.
posted by ctmf at 9:10 AM on June 17, 2020 [5 favorites]
Their maturity level is clearly not up to the task of being senior management of anything bigger than a car wash.
posted by ctmf at 9:10 AM on June 17, 2020 [5 favorites]
What it puts me in mind of is cult-like behaviour? Like, the reaction is so disproportionate compared to how little any criticism will hurt eBay's bottom line, but they somehow get six people to go along with this.
And yeah, why does eBay have a "Special Operations, eBay Global Security Team?"
posted by RobotHero at 9:17 AM on June 17, 2020 [4 favorites]
And yeah, why does eBay have a "Special Operations, eBay Global Security Team?"
posted by RobotHero at 9:17 AM on June 17, 2020 [4 favorites]
If your mind is boggled.. If this incident leaves you stupefied.. Have you not been paying attention? Has the concept of wealth disparity and casual mention of "fuck you money" in the shows that entertain you remained comfortingly arms-length to you so far?
This world we have let happen, it is coming for all of us.
posted by elkevelvet at 9:38 AM on June 17, 2020 [2 favorites]
This world we have let happen, it is coming for all of us.
posted by elkevelvet at 9:38 AM on June 17, 2020 [2 favorites]
$20 crabcake appetizer
$12 clam chowder
$49 crab boil entree
$27 side of truffle mac & cheese
$12 side of grilled asparagus
$11 slice of cheesecake
I'm feeling bloated just reading that. Why do rich people have such terrible taste?
Also, reading through the transcripts of their text messages/emails to each other, I'm struck by the pseudo-military language they use. They way they reply to each other with "copy that" and talk about "neutralizing" them.
We talk about the militarization of the police; there is some seriously f-ed up macho military thing going on here. These are rich white guys with bullshit corporate jobs, acting out a kind of special op fantasy role play game. Except it's all aimed at real people who never agreed to be part of their fantasy game.
posted by EllaEm at 9:44 AM on June 17, 2020 [11 favorites]
$12 clam chowder
$49 crab boil entree
$27 side of truffle mac & cheese
$12 side of grilled asparagus
$11 slice of cheesecake
I'm feeling bloated just reading that. Why do rich people have such terrible taste?
Also, reading through the transcripts of their text messages/emails to each other, I'm struck by the pseudo-military language they use. They way they reply to each other with "copy that" and talk about "neutralizing" them.
We talk about the militarization of the police; there is some seriously f-ed up macho military thing going on here. These are rich white guys with bullshit corporate jobs, acting out a kind of special op fantasy role play game. Except it's all aimed at real people who never agreed to be part of their fantasy game.
posted by EllaEm at 9:44 AM on June 17, 2020 [11 favorites]
On the financial side getting caught - one of the things that struck me was how quickly this got caught. The first contact was August 7th, the FBI got involved on August 22, and three of the people involved were put on leave on the 30th.
This is the thing that amazes me as well, given historically how slow most investigations of online harassment have been. Maybe they thought "Well, even if they do catch on, it'll take a couple years before the police start believing them."
Currently waiting for at least one of the employees to try crying, pointing at their children, saying how "this isn't like them" , and it's ruined their life...
posted by happyroach at 10:02 AM on June 17, 2020
This is the thing that amazes me as well, given historically how slow most investigations of online harassment have been. Maybe they thought "Well, even if they do catch on, it'll take a couple years before the police start believing them."
Currently waiting for at least one of the employees to try crying, pointing at their children, saying how "this isn't like them" , and it's ruined their life...
posted by happyroach at 10:02 AM on June 17, 2020
I realize this is totally not the point, but what strikes me about this story is... there is NO SHORTAGE of people complaining about eBay online. I spent many years working for eBay-related businesses, was a certified eBay consultant for 3 years, and attended several eBay Live events (as a demonstrator, not an attendee).
One thing I learned is, the #1 hobby of eBay sellers is "Complaining about eBay, loudly, and at length, in public and online." Why pick on this one couple in particular?
Honestly, from what I know of that world, I'm betting the answer basically boils down to "cocaine usage."
posted by ErikaB at 10:12 AM on June 17, 2020 [14 favorites]
One thing I learned is, the #1 hobby of eBay sellers is "Complaining about eBay, loudly, and at length, in public and online." Why pick on this one couple in particular?
Honestly, from what I know of that world, I'm betting the answer basically boils down to "cocaine usage."
posted by ErikaB at 10:12 AM on June 17, 2020 [14 favorites]
It's just a bunch of big-headed kids with big titles and a lot of money who thought being an "intelligence center" made them the CIA or something.
Nah, that "just a few bad apples" argument doesn't fly anymore. That fifty year old former chief of police with an expense account isn't a "big-headed kid".
posted by mhoye at 10:13 AM on June 17, 2020 [8 favorites]
Nah, that "just a few bad apples" argument doesn't fly anymore. That fifty year old former chief of police with an expense account isn't a "big-headed kid".
posted by mhoye at 10:13 AM on June 17, 2020 [8 favorites]
That fifty year old former chief of police with an expense account isn't a "big-headed kid".
No, he's a cop. So no help with moral conscience there.
posted by ctmf at 10:38 AM on June 17, 2020 [1 favorite]
No, he's a cop. So no help with moral conscience there.
posted by ctmf at 10:38 AM on June 17, 2020 [1 favorite]
I'm surprised that this campaign of harassment resulted in actual law enforcement attention and charges. Not the usual outcome of these things.
posted by Sauce Trough at 10:57 AM on June 17, 2020 [5 favorites]
posted by Sauce Trough at 10:57 AM on June 17, 2020 [5 favorites]
Maybe Anita Sarkeesian, Brianna Wu, etc should move to Nantick?
posted by Sauce Trough at 11:02 AM on June 17, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by Sauce Trough at 11:02 AM on June 17, 2020 [1 favorite]
These are rich white guys with bullshit corporate jobs
Half of the defendants are women, two of whom are in their 20s.
posted by nickmark at 11:10 AM on June 17, 2020 [7 favorites]
Half of the defendants are women, two of whom are in their 20s.
posted by nickmark at 11:10 AM on June 17, 2020 [7 favorites]
Who else did they do this to, and not get caught?
Attached to the court filings is an affidavit by the lead FBI investigator on the case, which has way more details, including the fact that even as he was attempting to ruin this couple's life, one of the ringleaders had one of his minions back at corporate HQ dig up some "intel" on a DA in Arkansas to try to ruin his life as well, for the temerity of prosecuting the ringleader's father.
The affidavit doesn't specify what dad had done to get charged criminally.
The affidavit also has details that suggest these people were not quite as smart as they thought they were. As the noose tightened, they had to come up with a story for why a Caravan they had rented (for repeated, all futile, efforts to put a GPS on the couple's car) had shown up in Natick (where one of the victims, spooked, as you would imagine, noticed it was following him and stopped and took its photo). A Natick PD detective had linked the rental to one particular minion; the story they concocted was that she flew into Boston for a computer-security conference, then drove out to Natick for some antiquing and she got lost. Only problem: While there are several good reasons to visit Natick, antiquing is not one of them.
posted by adamg at 11:17 AM on June 17, 2020 [8 favorites]
Attached to the court filings is an affidavit by the lead FBI investigator on the case, which has way more details, including the fact that even as he was attempting to ruin this couple's life, one of the ringleaders had one of his minions back at corporate HQ dig up some "intel" on a DA in Arkansas to try to ruin his life as well, for the temerity of prosecuting the ringleader's father.
The affidavit doesn't specify what dad had done to get charged criminally.
The affidavit also has details that suggest these people were not quite as smart as they thought they were. As the noose tightened, they had to come up with a story for why a Caravan they had rented (for repeated, all futile, efforts to put a GPS on the couple's car) had shown up in Natick (where one of the victims, spooked, as you would imagine, noticed it was following him and stopped and took its photo). A Natick PD detective had linked the rental to one particular minion; the story they concocted was that she flew into Boston for a computer-security conference, then drove out to Natick for some antiquing and she got lost. Only problem: While there are several good reasons to visit Natick, antiquing is not one of them.
posted by adamg at 11:17 AM on June 17, 2020 [8 favorites]
Also good to see that corporate criminals still haven’t cottoned onto the “is you taking notes on a criminal fucking conspiracy” message yet.
They just have no thought that they might be investigated let alone caught and prosecuted. Most been doing sketchy/illegal things their whole life with little personal consequence.
Do other large corporate entities have terror tactic ratfucking operations?
Yes. It's pretty common for resources extraction companies. You can even contract out to "security" companies like Blackwater who will infiltrate for pay and attempt to discredit and intimidate organizers. At a minimum it is defacto stalking even if technically illegal.
Also I am embarrassingly obsessed with that $750 meal... I just... I guess I'm naive, but I cannot get my head around how three people could spend that much on one meal.
This is why I'd never make it in the evil businessperson world. If I had the sort of expense account that would absorb $750 three person meals I wouldn't be able to help myself from getting a couple dozen pasta meals to go and swinging by the local shelter. Every. Single. Time.
posted by Mitheral at 11:26 AM on June 17, 2020 [2 favorites]
They just have no thought that they might be investigated let alone caught and prosecuted. Most been doing sketchy/illegal things their whole life with little personal consequence.
Do other large corporate entities have terror tactic ratfucking operations?
Yes. It's pretty common for resources extraction companies. You can even contract out to "security" companies like Blackwater who will infiltrate for pay and attempt to discredit and intimidate organizers. At a minimum it is defacto stalking even if technically illegal.
Also I am embarrassingly obsessed with that $750 meal... I just... I guess I'm naive, but I cannot get my head around how three people could spend that much on one meal.
This is why I'd never make it in the evil businessperson world. If I had the sort of expense account that would absorb $750 three person meals I wouldn't be able to help myself from getting a couple dozen pasta meals to go and swinging by the local shelter. Every. Single. Time.
posted by Mitheral at 11:26 AM on June 17, 2020 [2 favorites]
Also good to see that corporate criminals still haven’t cottoned onto the “is you taking notes on a criminal fucking conspiracy” message yet.
They just have no thought that they might be investigated let alone caught and prosecuted. Most been doing sketchy/illegal things their whole life with little personal consequence.
One of them is a former police officer, a background which the affidavit takes dry FBI joy in pointing out and repeating. The alibi he proposed is less panicky than the others, and is basically a pitch to the local police that the accusers shouldn't be believed. I drew some pretty grim conclusions from that about the kind of cop he must have been.
posted by ZaphodB at 1:55 PM on June 17, 2020 [11 favorites]
They just have no thought that they might be investigated let alone caught and prosecuted. Most been doing sketchy/illegal things their whole life with little personal consequence.
One of them is a former police officer, a background which the affidavit takes dry FBI joy in pointing out and repeating. The alibi he proposed is less panicky than the others, and is basically a pitch to the local police that the accusers shouldn't be believed. I drew some pretty grim conclusions from that about the kind of cop he must have been.
posted by ZaphodB at 1:55 PM on June 17, 2020 [11 favorites]
I just realized what this reminded me of, in the level of obsession and elaborate attempts: the heyday of Scientology harassment, where they did things like steal some writing paper from someone's home to write threatening letters with, in an attempt to frame them.
posted by tavella at 3:15 PM on June 17, 2020 [10 favorites]
posted by tavella at 3:15 PM on June 17, 2020 [10 favorites]
So, this was a group led by male executives at a deep-pocketed tech company, harassing a woman for having the temerity to report on their company and to help sellers (who have the choice to sell on eBay, Amazon Marketplace, Etsy, and elsewhere) share experiences and tips.
Reminds me of what Uber did. Maybe still does; we wouldn't know till after.
Also, the eCommercebytes commenters are upset, and glad that the journalists they trust are okay.
posted by brainwane at 3:58 PM on June 17, 2020 [3 favorites]
Reminds me of what Uber did. Maybe still does; we wouldn't know till after.
Also, the eCommercebytes commenters are upset, and glad that the journalists they trust are okay.
posted by brainwane at 3:58 PM on June 17, 2020 [3 favorites]
ErikaB, that's exactly what I thought as soon as I read the article! These people sound like they're coked to the gills. And what's so goofy about it is that it's not like ecommercebytes is just some malicious griefer site there to say mean things about eBay (and other e-commerce companies). They report all sorts of news, developments, announcement, etc., so a whole lot of their content actually looks like free promotion for eBay. cf: "eBay Offers Advice on Getting Exposure in Google Shopping," "eBay to Launch Affiliate Plan for Sellers," "eBay to Run Ads on TV, Has a Gift for Store Sellers," "eBay Revises Quarterly Guidance Based on Stronger Performance," and "eBay and Etsy Contribute to Social Justice Organizations" — all currently on the site's front page.
Of course, not all news items are ideal PR-fodder, and, sure, there's a ton of complaining from commenters, but as ErikaB says, "there is NO SHORTAGE of people complaining about eBay online." Even I'm aware of this, though my knowledge of eBay is was pretty much limited to making a few online purchases a year. Now I feel like I know more ... and how! Woo doggies!
I'll just be over here tapping my foot, waiting impatiently for the Netflix docuseries.
posted by taz at 1:03 AM on June 18, 2020 [3 favorites]
Of course, not all news items are ideal PR-fodder, and, sure, there's a ton of complaining from commenters, but as ErikaB says, "there is NO SHORTAGE of people complaining about eBay online." Even I'm aware of this, though my knowledge of eBay
I'll just be over here tapping my foot, waiting impatiently for the Netflix docuseries.
posted by taz at 1:03 AM on June 18, 2020 [3 favorites]
Corporations ARE terror tactic ratfucking operations.
Flagged as fantastic, Fizz.
posted by Bella Donna at 7:01 AM on June 22, 2020 [1 favorite]
Flagged as fantastic, Fizz.
posted by Bella Donna at 7:01 AM on June 22, 2020 [1 favorite]
tavella: I just realized what this reminded me of, in the level of obsession and elaborate attempts: the heyday of Scientology harassment, where they did things like steal some writing paper from someone's home to write threatening letters with, in an attempt to frame them.
I faced a tiny bit of Scientology harassment once. Unfortunately for them, the tactic they used seemed to have been developed in a time before "Hi, I'm a journalist from a major national newspaper" could be immediately contradicted by their name showing up on call display.
posted by clawsoon at 12:03 PM on June 22, 2020 [2 favorites]
I faced a tiny bit of Scientology harassment once. Unfortunately for them, the tactic they used seemed to have been developed in a time before "Hi, I'm a journalist from a major national newspaper" could be immediately contradicted by their name showing up on call display.
posted by clawsoon at 12:03 PM on June 22, 2020 [2 favorites]
A New York Times piece goes into details about what other tech firms have done with private investigative teams.
posted by brainwane at 2:40 PM on June 27, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by brainwane at 2:40 PM on June 27, 2020 [2 favorites]
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