“The bell's already been rung.”
June 21, 2020 8:42 AM   Subscribe

Zack Snyder's Justice League [Teaser Trailer] After months and even years of campaigning by fans, stars, and Zack Snyder himself, the director of Man of Steel confirmed the "Snyder Cut" of Justice League will officially be released on HBO Max 2021.

• The history and future of the Snyder Cut of Justice League, explained [Vox]
“For the last three years, the most sought-after superhero movie has been one that doesn’t fully exist yet. The movie in question is Zack Snyder’s fabled director’s cut of Justice League — the blockbuster that was supposed to be DC’s team-up counter to Marvel’s Avengers. Snyder left the project before its final form reached theaters. The version of the Wonder Woman-Superman-Batman-Flash-Cyborg friendship formation that screened in theaters would go on to flop, and ultimately lead to the ousting of Henry Cavill and Ben Affleck. Amid its critical and commercial failure, Snyder was absolved from the mess. Since Justice League’s November 2017 release, Snyder’s defenders have gathered under one demand: “Release the #SnyderCut.” Snyder’s version of the movie, his fans have come to believe, is better than the movie that everyone ultimately saw — the version of Justice League that Warner Bros. execs and replacement director Joss Whedon corrupted. Like an urban legend, Snyder’s cut existed only in whispers, rumors, and teases. That’s no longer the case: Snyder and HBO Max announced last week that the so-called “Snyder Cut” will be released on the streaming platform in 2021, as the culmination of years of chatter.”
• Is Releasing the Snyder Cut of Justice League a Victory for Toxic Fandoms? [Vanity Fair]
“The fan movement, spurred on by Snyder and his allies, was emboldened when they saw the movie that Warner Bros. released. The studio tried to claim that much of Snyder’s vision had been preserved in the theatrical version, but Henry Cavill’s heavily CGI’d upper lip (a digital attempt to hide his Mission: Impossible mustache during Whedon’s reshoots) exposed just how little of the director’s own scenes made it into the final product. The truth about whether or not Snyder’s version even existed at all ceased to matter. Snyder claimed it did, posting film canisters labeled “Z.S. JL Director’s Cut, Running Time 214” back in December. (The Whedon–Snyder version was only 121 minutes.) Cavill has said that there may be footage that has been pieced together, but that he hasn’t seen it. Whatever it was Snyder had in that can, according to the Hollywood Reporter the version coming to HBO Max in 2021 will require at least $20 million to pull off and may even entail another round of extensive reshoots. Thankfully, Cavill will be freshly shaved. Why would anyone object to a project that will employ a number of people and make a certain fandom extremely happy (at least at the prospect of it, if not the final result) during these troubling times? The main concern—where there is concern—is that WarnerMedia, in harnessing a fan movement to promote the launch of HBO Max next week, has rewarded entitled fandoms of the future: even if you behave badly, you, too, could get own version of a Snyder cut.”
• HBO Max Boss Projects ‘Wildly Expensive’ Snyder Cut Will Cost Over $30 Million [Indie Wire]
“In a new interview on the “Recode Media” podcast, WarnerMedia chairman and HBO Max boss Bob Greenblatt confirms the Snyder cut does not exist at the moment and it’s something Snyder has to create over the next year. Original repots pegged the Snyder cut budget around $20-$30 million, but Greenblatt says the studio will only be so lucky if the cut can be produced for as much as $30 million. In other words, the Snyder cut will most likely exceed the $30 million mark. The theatrical “Justice League” cut cost Warner Bros. an estimated $300 million to produce, market, and distribute. “It isn’t as easy as going into the vault and there’s a Snyder Cut sitting there to put out,” Greenblatt said. “It does not exist. Zack is actually building it, and it’s complex, including new VFX shots. It’s a radical rethinking of that movie and it’s complicated and wildly expensive. I’ll just say I wish it was just $30 million and stop there. It’s an enormous undertaking and very complex.””
posted by Fizz (46 comments total) 3 users marked this as a favorite
Quick! What's the difference between the Snyder cut of Justice league and the Butthole cut of Cats? One's a cut *of* buttholes and one's a cut *for*... you get the idea.
posted by Homo neanderthalensis at 8:48 AM on June 21 [32 favorites]

This is going to be such a trainwreck of a cut, like I'm curious, not enough to sign up for HBO Max, but enough that I'll find a torrent and watch it by fast forwarding 5-7 minutes at a time because this film doesn't really deserve any kind of respect.
posted by Fizz at 8:50 AM on June 21 [2 favorites]

Just a reminder that science has yet to discover a problem for which the solution is "more Zack Snyder."
posted by Navelgazer at 8:53 AM on June 21 [56 favorites]

The problem with this cut is not that it will suck, it's that I'm gonna have to watch the other cut to see how much exactly it sucks.
posted by jonbro at 8:59 AM on June 21 [8 favorites]

You don't really have to watch the other cut to understand that, you just need to look at this image of Henry Cavill as Superman.
posted by Fizz at 9:01 AM on June 21 [5 favorites]

Dan Olson has an excellent take on this.
posted by suetanvil at 9:01 AM on June 21 [9 favorites]

Zack Snyder is no Richard Donner.
posted by mikelieman at 9:10 AM on June 21 [4 favorites]

This seems like a good time to link Maggie Mae Fish's (as yet incomplete) series of videos on Zack Snyder, the first of which (not counting the introduction video) is about Superman.
posted by tobascodagama at 9:15 AM on June 21 [6 favorites]

Zack Snyder is no Richard Donner.

More like unironic Richard Lester.
posted by Fizz at 9:19 AM on June 21

Cool 3+ hours of desaturated grim pathos
posted by Ferreous at 9:52 AM on June 21 [4 favorites]

I wonder how much money they are pushing to hype this thing. Because nobody I know cares, and nobody I know is talking about it.
posted by quillbreaker at 9:56 AM on June 21 [6 favorites]

I'd watch all 10 reels if it turned out that the DC heroes were actually in another wing of Snyder's Suckerpunch!-verse
posted by otherchaz at 9:58 AM on June 21 [2 favorites]

From the third article linked up above:
the Snyder cut will most likely exceed the $30 million mark.
On top of the 300 hundred million they spent on the original cut.
posted by Fizz at 9:59 AM on June 21 [2 favorites]

As an intellectual exercise, this is kind of interesting to see what two filmmakers do with the same material, sort of like that Zack Quinto reality series from a few year ago, but I'm really not interested in the final product here. Justice League was not great but it was still better than Batman v Superman so if we're just getting more of that, I'm not excited.

What I do want to see is the George Miller's Justice League although most of the cast have probably aged out of their roles by this time.
posted by octothorpe at 10:05 AM on June 21 [2 favorites]

If someone serves you a shit sandwich with crickets, then offers to scrape off the shit, it's likely your taste for crickets has already been compromised.
posted by CynicalKnight at 11:28 AM on June 21 [14 favorites]

My take on it is that the controversy is the whole point; $30 million might be relatively cheap in terms of publicity given that HBO wants to inject some fresh blood into its streaming service with the relaunch. BvS, with its subtitle promising a JL preview, didn't do stellar box office by the standards of these movies (that it was exceeded by the solo Aquaman movie still flabbergasts me), although it still did better than the JL movie. I can't imagine that this thing will generate enough money, by however that's counted (new Max subscriptions, lunchboxes, whatever), to make back the production costs, even if they don't go over $30M, and Greenblatt seems to be signaling that Snyder won't be given much more than that. (The fans who have been calling for this thing may take that as an excuse to say that WB was too cheap to give Snyder the cut that he really needed, although they might say that if Snyder were given $60 million, or even allowed to completely remake it.) Either way, since WB's more successful DCEU movies have been made by other people, this is probably his last effort with them, and thank Rao.
posted by Halloween Jack at 12:03 PM on June 21

Aquaman wasn't the most groundbreaking movie or anything but it was at least fun which is more than you could say about any of Snyder's DC movies.
posted by octothorpe at 12:19 PM on June 21 [6 favorites]

I begrudgingly watched Justice League when it came to HBO because I’d heard what a train wreck it was. When I heard this remake (it’s a remake, not a cut!) was coming to HBO MAX, I sighed in relief because I was never going to subscribe to HBO MAX and be tempted to throw another three hours down into that pit.

Then, when HBO MAX was launched, my HBO subscription was automatically upgraded to HBO MAX. Curse you, Zach Snyder!!!
posted by ejs at 12:32 PM on June 21 [2 favorites]

The last time we were in the hospital, there was a lot of waiting around for things to happen. (As often happens in hospitals.) They had Justice League available, so we started watching it as we'd never seen it. When the doctors came back 20 minutes later, it was a relief to turn it off.

What a hunk of garbage. And fans wanted more of that?

There was a tweet thread going around the other day that Warner Brothers doesn't know what to do with Superman, that they can't see how the character is relevant now. It is this kind of bold leadership that has led to where DC movies are today: less preferable than medical procedures.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 1:18 PM on June 21 [4 favorites]

And fans wanted more of that?

FWIW, I've seen no evidence that these fans are anything other than an astroturf campaign.
posted by suetanvil at 1:29 PM on June 21 [5 favorites]

I'm only interested because mythical cuts like this almost never get released, and I'm curious to see what will be done with it. that being said, it's absolutely going to be trash.
posted by Bwentman at 1:38 PM on June 21 [3 favorites]

This seems to me like a situation where WB made bad movie for $300 million that underperformed at the box office, then a bunch of idiots basically told them that for a bit more money they could get them all to buy it again. My understanding is that the original film had a lot of Snyder Crappiness™ in the can before he left the director's seat and they replaced him to get the film out. I've seen several of Snyder's films, I don't think there's actually a gem in there anywhere. This teaser certainly disabuse me of that notion.
posted by axiom at 1:48 PM on June 21

Superman is eternally relevant. Most of what’s wrong with the DC movies has been been a sense the characters had to be made relevant. Wonder Woman worked and Aquaman sort of worked because they started from a joyous embrace of those characters and their milieu. Gal Gadot portrayal could have slipped into a Lynda Carter 1970s script and costume without a hitch. Not DCEU but Joaquin Phoenix’s Joker absolutely resonated with great Joker stories and themes even as it took new ground.

Taking what’s there to the next level is of course is the defining characteristic of most of the Marvel adaptations of the last 20 years.
posted by MattD at 2:15 PM on June 21 [1 favorite]

Zack Snyder is no Richard Donner.

Hell, Richard Lester is no Richard Donner, despite having 70% of his name.
posted by ricochet biscuit at 2:23 PM on June 21 [4 favorites]

FWIW, I've seen no evidence that these fans are anything other than an astroturf campaign.

There is a an constituency in the DC vs Marvel wars that honestly believe that a Disney cabal (or the Jews, or the Lizard People, it's never clear) is somehow sabotaging Warner Bros and forcing all their movies to be a bit shit, and that's why movie after movie (especially the ones Snyder is involved with) is just terrible. But, if the One True Director (Snyder in this case) was able to bring his vision to life, then everyone who ever enjoyed a Marvel movie would just kill themselves in shame and DC movies would take their rightful place as the "only good movies ever made".

It just boils down to that there is no other explanation possible except millions of people must be involved in a global conspiracy to trick the "sheeple" into liking Captain American more than Superman. The fact that Disney/Marvel has almost 100 years of being am extremely successful media franchise juggernaut, and Warner Bros just isn't up to competing, just gets drowned out by the sound of the brain worms in these people's heads. Seriously, its QAnon for comic book neckbeards. It's that crazy.
posted by sideshow at 2:32 PM on June 21 [19 favorites]

However, there is also a less brain wormy side of this, and it's about to backfire.

It's kinda like the Republican Party of the last 30 or so years: Constantly complain about shit about which you will never have a time where you'll have to put your money where your mouth is.

For 3 years, lots of people have complained "Oh man, if the #SnyderCut was ever released, you'd be fucked!!", knowing that it would likely never happen. Well, just like now the Repubs got Trump elected (oops, can't say "if only we were in charge, you'd see!" anymore. Although Republicans still say that...), now the #SnyderCut is coming out.
posted by sideshow at 2:40 PM on June 21 [1 favorite]

Zach Snyder’s Justice League is an action movie. With scenes of people fighting and stuff. With 30 millions, Snyder cannot reshoot the action scenes. He can colour balance them to shit, recut them and switch the boring CGI villain for his own designated boring CGI villain. How can anyone wish for another helping of those boring action scenes? The surrounding scenes won’t elevate the terribleness.

Oh and before you say: “the scene with Wonder Woman in the bank was good!” Whedon shot that scene.
posted by papineau at 2:57 PM on June 21 [1 favorite]

I have only seen Wonder Woman and Aquaman from the DC Live Action stable and I always think that Wonder Woman wasn't so much released by DC as Escaped the studio under cover on indifference.

I enjoyed Wonder Woman despite some of it's more problematic aspects, but felt that Aquaman - despite Momoa Heard's best attempts - was 'meh'. Stupid forgettable fun at best.

The teaser trailer, left me scratching my head. This is what the Snyder fans have been clamouring for? This?
posted by Faintdreams at 2:58 PM on June 21

With 30 millions, Snyder cannot reshoot the action scenes. He can colour balance them to shit, recut them and switch the boring CGI villain for his own designated boring CGI villain.

I think that primary shooting was finished and he had rough cuts done with wireframe filling in for the cgi so it's mostly post production work. These things usually have some reshoots though and I doubt that $30M can cover that.
posted by octothorpe at 3:06 PM on June 21 [1 favorite]

most of the cast have probably aged out of their roles by this time.

Justice League/Cocoon crossover?
posted by sammyo at 3:16 PM on June 21 [1 favorite]

"Snyder’s vision"

posted by soundguy99 at 3:35 PM on June 21 [2 favorites]

I always thought the impetus for releasing the Snyder Cut was that it existed. Snyder being given money to finish it suggests otherwise.

Whether it will be bad is easily answered but also beside the point. We're into conspiracy theory territory now. Those few very vocal souls who wanted this will not be willing to understand our disinterest or dismissal.
posted by Merus at 4:17 PM on June 21 [6 favorites]

I was just talking with a friend last night, and when he brought this up (we'd been talking about the Watchmen series), I explained my view on Snyder: he never should have risen past, say, director of photography, and even then, only been allowed to work with directors and producers who would tell him "I think that's enough slow motion, Zach, there are other ways to make things dramatic. And take off that fucking filter, I'd like some color in the film."
posted by Ghidorah at 4:27 PM on June 21 [4 favorites]

Not totally unrelated: "Is Christopher Nolan the greatest filmmaker ever?"

My personal opinion: Christopher Nolan isn't even the greatest filmmaker in his family
posted by Pinback at 6:03 PM on June 21 [1 favorite]

...Aquaman - despite Momoa Heard's best attempts - was 'meh'. Stupid forgettable fun at best.

I was traveling by air-ship a few months ago and sampled a lot of this w/o benefit of sound while it was playing on the seat-back video screen of someone a few rows ahead of me. To me it appeared incredibly violent and I was left with no desire to watch w/ sound later.
posted by Insert Clever Name Here at 6:16 PM on June 21 [1 favorite]

So, after a half-dozen or so "Your favorite [X] sucks" comments, isn't the mod supposed to step in with a warning?

Metafilter: Piling on something none of us has seen? Let's GO!"
posted by the sobsister at 6:25 PM on June 21

Oh, one more pile-on: when I watched Jusitice League, the character of Cyborg was so flat and unengaging. Then I watched the Doom Patrol series, and Cyborg in that was captivating, interesting, and heart wrenching, and his back story was able to motivate several episodes. Plus he was organically (no pun intended) worked into the story, rather than serving as a McGuffin regarding the Mother Boxes. When I watch the Snyder remake of Justice League, I’ll be imagining how much better it would have been if it had the Doom Patrol version of Cyborg in it. (Also if the guy who plays the Flash hadn’t physically assaulted a female fan.)
posted by ejs at 7:52 PM on June 21 [2 favorites]

I always thought the impetus for releasing the Snyder Cut was that it existed. Snyder being given money to finish it suggests otherwise.

Right? He must have had nothing but a steaming pile of garbage when they fired him.

The problem with DC movies I've seen is the terrible 80s B movie writing. Gal Gadot is charming and so is Jason Momoa and Chris Pine but the scripts for those movies and the character motovations were just so so cheesy.
posted by fshgrl at 9:21 PM on June 21 [2 favorites]

In all fairness, Snyder wasn’t fired. There was a death (maybe his daughter?) in his immediate family, and he asked to step away from the movie, and, as far as I remember, gave his blessing to Whedon to finish the film.
posted by Ghidorah at 10:26 PM on June 21

I think the Vanity Fair article nails it pretty well. I don’t find it surprising that Zack Snyder, director of Sucker Punch and apparently working on an adaptation of The Fountainhead, is a fan favorite of the toxic segment of fandom.

And Warner throwing good money after bad in the pursuit of comic book film mediocrity is sort of their thing.
posted by jimw at 1:11 AM on June 22 [9 favorites]

I've got a young son, and he and his friends are all primarily into Marvel superheroes.

So as a middle-aged person it does feel a bit weird watching Superman and Batman turn into what Dick Tracy and the Shadow were when I was a kid, nostalgic figures that old people hark back to and keep wanting revived.
posted by TheophileEscargot at 4:33 AM on June 22 [7 favorites]

the character motivations were just so so cheesy
You think the concept of superheroes is ok, but motivations are cheesy?
posted by Billiken at 8:52 AM on June 22

I'm also going to use this thread to posit my opinion that, artistically, Zack Snyder and Julie Taymor are essentially the same person. They've both got brilliant and innovative visual instincts, but zero understanding of storytelling, they're both comics-obsessed but don't understand what makes the source material work, and they both fail incredibly hard when straying away from anything other than inviolable source material. Both of them should be production designers or producers, guiding the visual designs of better directors, but neither understands their limitations.
posted by Navelgazer at 10:31 AM on June 22 [2 favorites]

You think the concept of superheroes is ok, but motivations are cheesy?

Absolutely. I also think the concept of animated toys is ok and talking animated single-parent fish, both of whom had movies made about them where they acted on more believable and less perfunctory motivations than any sentient being in the entire DC universe*.

*that I've seen which is admittedly only a handful of them.
posted by fshgrl at 5:37 PM on June 22 [1 favorite]

If someone serves you a shit sandwich with crickets, then offers to scrape off the shit

Yes, but what if their offer was to scrape off the crickets
posted by Jon Mitchell at 8:31 PM on June 22 [4 favorites]

So as a middle-aged person it does feel a bit weird watching Superman and Batman turn into what Dick Tracy and the Shadow were when I was a kid, nostalgic figures that old people hark back to and keep wanting revived.

This is interesting, but the CW superhero shows are all DC characters, and Batman has a series of well-regarded video games. (It helps that Batman's villains are flexible and adaptable, so you can do a lot more with then than with any Marvel superhero outside of Spider-Man, who has a similarly flexible bench, but Batman's core story - billionaire fights crime by individually punching 'criminals' - is a little on the nose at this point.)

I think it might be more that Marvel kind of reset expectations for what the ceiling for superheroes were, and DC hasn't been able to keep up.

But there's also truth to the idea that Superman as a character hasn't seen a successful adaptation since the early 90s - the CW series revolves around Supergirl, for whom less is known so there's more freedom to tinker.
posted by Merus at 3:50 AM on June 23

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