Privilege.
July 9, 2020 12:45 PM Subscribe
The all-white country band formerly known as Lady Antebellum has filed a lawsuit to use the name Lady A, which Black Seattle blues, funk and gospel singer Anita White has used for more than 20 years.
White, who has been releasing blues and soul music for more than 20 years as Lady A, complained publicly that the band never reached out to her before changing its name. Negotiations over the name failed to reach an agreement.
"When we learned that Ms. White had also been performing under the name Lady A, we had heartfelt discussions with her about how we can all come together and make something special and beautiful out of this moment," said the group in a statement. "We never even entertained the idea that she shouldn't also be able to use the name Lady A, and never will — today's action doesn't change that."
Previously.
White, who has been releasing blues and soul music for more than 20 years as Lady A, complained publicly that the band never reached out to her before changing its name. Negotiations over the name failed to reach an agreement.
"When we learned that Ms. White had also been performing under the name Lady A, we had heartfelt discussions with her about how we can all come together and make something special and beautiful out of this moment," said the group in a statement. "We never even entertained the idea that she shouldn't also be able to use the name Lady A, and never will — today's action doesn't change that."
Previously.
I guess Lady HeadUpTheirOwnAss was already taken.
posted by Fizz at 12:49 PM on July 9, 2020 [64 favorites]
posted by Fizz at 12:49 PM on July 9, 2020 [64 favorites]
[Note that the 3-person band formerly known as Lady Antebellum is only 1/3 female, and hence it is "lady", singular.]
posted by heatherlogan at 12:50 PM on July 9, 2020 [9 favorites]
posted by heatherlogan at 12:50 PM on July 9, 2020 [9 favorites]
They could come up with an original name, though. On preview, Fizz's suggestion has merit.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 12:50 PM on July 9, 2020 [7 favorites]
posted by Kirth Gerson at 12:50 PM on July 9, 2020 [7 favorites]
Maybe they should add something to the end to differentiate, like Lady A🕳️, or said aloud as Lady A-hole
posted by BrotherCaine at 12:51 PM on July 9, 2020 [57 favorites]
posted by BrotherCaine at 12:51 PM on July 9, 2020 [57 favorites]
White people complain about not being able to shortchange a black artist, shocking developments in the [checks notes] country music scene. Oh, but "heartfelt," "special and beautiful," you see they were just trying to be friends after they ready-fire-aim'ed. Fuck them.
posted by rhizome at 12:52 PM on July 9, 2020 [38 favorites]
posted by rhizome at 12:52 PM on July 9, 2020 [38 favorites]
Lady A *
posted by runehog at 12:52 PM on July 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by runehog at 12:52 PM on July 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
Persons A
posted by rhizome at 12:53 PM on July 9, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by rhizome at 12:53 PM on July 9, 2020 [4 favorites]
I guess Lady HeadUpTheirOwnAss was already taken.
Lady Asshole ?
posted by Pendragon at 12:53 PM on July 9, 2020 [2 favorites]
Lady Asshole ?
posted by Pendragon at 12:53 PM on July 9, 2020 [2 favorites]
How about Lady White People. :shrugs:
posted by alex_skazat at 12:55 PM on July 9, 2020 [9 favorites]
posted by alex_skazat at 12:55 PM on July 9, 2020 [9 favorites]
I WANT to keep LADY but drop the southern thing but keep (steal) the A.
posted by clavdivs at 12:59 PM on July 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by clavdivs at 12:59 PM on July 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
this really just shows that their name change was a PR move. Lady Asshole indeed!
posted by supermedusa at 12:59 PM on July 9, 2020 [10 favorites]
posted by supermedusa at 12:59 PM on July 9, 2020 [10 favorites]
Top notch legal team ya got there, White Lady A. Really, just stellar minds in that operation.
posted by NoMich at 12:59 PM on July 9, 2020 [12 favorites]
posted by NoMich at 12:59 PM on July 9, 2020 [12 favorites]
That's no lady, that's my privilege!
posted by AJaffe at 1:01 PM on July 9, 2020 [23 favorites]
posted by AJaffe at 1:01 PM on July 9, 2020 [23 favorites]
Lady Antebellum have said that Lady A wants $10 million for their use of her name. They just don't want to pay her.
posted by Secret Sparrow at 1:03 PM on July 9, 2020 [24 favorites]
posted by Secret Sparrow at 1:03 PM on July 9, 2020 [24 favorites]
I WANT to keep LADY but drop the southern thing but keep (steal) the A.
There's a Hester Prynne joke here but I can't quite land on it
posted by thivaia at 1:04 PM on July 9, 2020 [22 favorites]
There's a Hester Prynne joke here but I can't quite land on it
posted by thivaia at 1:04 PM on July 9, 2020 [22 favorites]
"BTW, some folks are letting me know that there is more to this actually, so. The story is something like: Lady Antebellum actually the trademark Lady A since 2009 AND had been in negotiations with the singer Lady A in Seattle to allow her to continue using her name and even do some recording together, but then Lady A in Seattle asked for 10 million to settle the dispute."
I don’t have time to verify all that right now, but maybe somebody should before the train gets rolling.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 1:05 PM on July 9, 2020 [4 favorites]
I don’t have time to verify all that right now, but maybe somebody should before the train gets rolling.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 1:05 PM on July 9, 2020 [4 favorites]
The poop I heard was that they offered $1M and she countered with $10M. Frankly, with the band's name the way it was, they should be a little more inclined toward reparations.
posted by rhizome at 1:05 PM on July 9, 2020 [63 favorites]
posted by rhizome at 1:05 PM on July 9, 2020 [63 favorites]
we had heartfelt discussions with her about how we can all come together and make something special and beautiful out of this moment,
I can't get over this part. "I know I stole your 20 years of work without bothering to research (or just ignoring the result). Now I need you to say you don't mind so that I look good. I'm not planning to do anything to make amends."
posted by Emmy Rae at 1:06 PM on July 9, 2020 [25 favorites]
I can't get over this part. "I know I stole your 20 years of work without bothering to research (or just ignoring the result). Now I need you to say you don't mind so that I look good. I'm not planning to do anything to make amends."
posted by Emmy Rae at 1:06 PM on July 9, 2020 [25 favorites]
Unladylike conduct!
posted by sallybrown at 1:08 PM on July 9, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by sallybrown at 1:08 PM on July 9, 2020 [3 favorites]
They're doing the same thing that corporations do when they insist on making the absolute minimum amount of change and try to maintain a connection to their previous racist incarnation, like when Colgate-Palmolive swapped out one letter of a toothpaste brand.
Bands change their names all the time to completely unrelated things, musicians form new side projects under different names, people do one-off albums under alter egos — and fans still know who they are and are able to continue following them.
There’s no good reason this group has to keep the letter ‘A’ other than because they really want people to remember what they used to be called.
posted by theory at 1:09 PM on July 9, 2020 [26 favorites]
Bands change their names all the time to completely unrelated things, musicians form new side projects under different names, people do one-off albums under alter egos — and fans still know who they are and are able to continue following them.
There’s no good reason this group has to keep the letter ‘A’ other than because they really want people to remember what they used to be called.
posted by theory at 1:09 PM on July 9, 2020 [26 favorites]
I'm really curious how they can assert "We bought the trademark years ago" and also "but it wasn't until a couple weeks ago that we had the revelation that we needed to change our name".
Like, I understand the legal basis there, but it seems contradictory on its face.
posted by CrystalDave at 1:09 PM on July 9, 2020 [13 favorites]
Like, I understand the legal basis there, but it seems contradictory on its face.
posted by CrystalDave at 1:09 PM on July 9, 2020 [13 favorites]
This might be the most perfect microcosm possible of the current controversies and changes.
posted by rhizome at 1:09 PM on July 9, 2020 [17 favorites]
posted by rhizome at 1:09 PM on July 9, 2020 [17 favorites]
There's a good explanation of the trademark law from the Twitter feed of a trademark law prof here.
posted by Emera Gratia at 1:12 PM on July 9, 2020 [15 favorites]
posted by Emera Gratia at 1:12 PM on July 9, 2020 [15 favorites]
I propose: 'Christ what an A'
posted by Lanark at 1:12 PM on July 9, 2020 [54 favorites]
posted by Lanark at 1:12 PM on July 9, 2020 [54 favorites]
There's a Hester Prynne joke here but I can't quite land on it
The whole point of the scarlet letter is that it lands on you!
posted by GenjiandProust at 1:13 PM on July 9, 2020 [10 favorites]
The whole point of the scarlet letter is that it lands on you!
posted by GenjiandProust at 1:13 PM on July 9, 2020 [10 favorites]
The band could go with lAdy. Or, given the story, lAzy.
posted by GenjiandProust at 1:18 PM on July 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by GenjiandProust at 1:18 PM on July 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
lady k.
posted by Reclusive Novelist Thomas Pynchon at 1:22 PM on July 9, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by Reclusive Novelist Thomas Pynchon at 1:22 PM on July 9, 2020 [3 favorites]
Lady A Jr.
posted by sjswitzer at 1:28 PM on July 9, 2020 [8 favorites]
posted by sjswitzer at 1:28 PM on July 9, 2020 [8 favorites]
Take this in the spirit to which it is intended, band: Bless your hearts.
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 1:30 PM on July 9, 2020 [45 favorites]
posted by fifteen schnitzengruben is my limit at 1:30 PM on July 9, 2020 [45 favorites]
I think it’s possible that the 10 mil request is just her way of saying “no.”
posted by Selena777 at 1:40 PM on July 9, 2020 [35 favorites]
posted by Selena777 at 1:40 PM on July 9, 2020 [35 favorites]
Lady research:
Lady B = rapper
Lady C = Lady Collin Campbell
Lady D = Princess Diana
Lady E = superyacht
Lady F = possibly available
Lady G = Janice Fyffe musical artist
Lady H = sort of available/lifestyle blog
Lady I = reggae musical artist
Lady J = GI Joe character
Lady K = hair salon and musical artist.
...
posted by The_Vegetables at 1:40 PM on July 9, 2020 [37 favorites]
Lady B = rapper
Lady C = Lady Collin Campbell
Lady D = Princess Diana
Lady E = superyacht
Lady F = possibly available
Lady G = Janice Fyffe musical artist
Lady H = sort of available/lifestyle blog
Lady I = reggae musical artist
Lady J = GI Joe character
Lady K = hair salon and musical artist.
...
posted by The_Vegetables at 1:40 PM on July 9, 2020 [37 favorites]
Lady Apartheid is probably not taken
posted by thelonius at 1:40 PM on July 9, 2020 [61 favorites]
posted by thelonius at 1:40 PM on July 9, 2020 [61 favorites]
big machine records and big machine label group are their record company - of course, no one buys records anyway, but ...
and if they ever play live again, picket
posted by pyramid termite at 1:42 PM on July 9, 2020
and if they ever play live again, picket
posted by pyramid termite at 1:42 PM on July 9, 2020
"Lady Antebellum announced earlier in June that they were changing their name after realizing the offense it caused due to its associations with slavery in the Confederacy era." (from the Variety article linked in the comments)
And from their Wikipedia page, emphasis added: "The band members stated [in June 2020] on social media that, never having previously sought the dictionary definition of the word "antebellum", they now consulted their "closest black friends and colleagues" so that their "eyes opened wide to the injustices, inequality and biases black women and men have always faced and continue to face every day. Now, blind spots we didn't even know existed have been revealed".
So, they've been using "Antebellum" as part of their name since 2006 and they just figured out what it means and that it has associations with slavery in the Confederacy era (and that that might cause offense)? And those "closest black friends and colleagues" (as in "some of my best friends are...") never previously hinted that "antebellum" had connotations they didn't appreciate? And now, they have not noticed that this lawsuit sits squarely in a new "blind spot"?
posted by beagle at 1:42 PM on July 9, 2020 [36 favorites]
And from their Wikipedia page, emphasis added: "The band members stated [in June 2020] on social media that, never having previously sought the dictionary definition of the word "antebellum", they now consulted their "closest black friends and colleagues" so that their "eyes opened wide to the injustices, inequality and biases black women and men have always faced and continue to face every day. Now, blind spots we didn't even know existed have been revealed".
So, they've been using "Antebellum" as part of their name since 2006 and they just figured out what it means and that it has associations with slavery in the Confederacy era (and that that might cause offense)? And those "closest black friends and colleagues" (as in "some of my best friends are...") never previously hinted that "antebellum" had connotations they didn't appreciate? And now, they have not noticed that this lawsuit sits squarely in a new "blind spot"?
posted by beagle at 1:42 PM on July 9, 2020 [36 favorites]
Maybe relocate to Alberta and call themselves Lady eh?
posted by Ashwagandha at 1:43 PM on July 9, 2020 [50 favorites]
posted by Ashwagandha at 1:43 PM on July 9, 2020 [50 favorites]
Lady A UK
posted by NoMich at 1:43 PM on July 9, 2020 [15 favorites]
posted by NoMich at 1:43 PM on July 9, 2020 [15 favorites]
The name Lady A (not colonizers really) is also free.
posted by BrotherCaine at 1:50 PM on July 9, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by BrotherCaine at 1:50 PM on July 9, 2020 [4 favorites]
Maybe relocate to Alberta...
You want fans with confederate flags? Because that's how you get fans with confederate flags.
posted by klanawa at 1:50 PM on July 9, 2020 [16 favorites]
You want fans with confederate flags? Because that's how you get fans with confederate flags.
posted by klanawa at 1:50 PM on July 9, 2020 [16 favorites]
they could go punk and call themselves lady a lunch
posted by pyramid termite at 1:51 PM on July 9, 2020 [19 favorites]
posted by pyramid termite at 1:51 PM on July 9, 2020 [19 favorites]
lady k.
Maybe they can ask for a manager.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 1:52 PM on July 9, 2020 [7 favorites]
Maybe they can ask for a manager.
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 1:52 PM on July 9, 2020 [7 favorites]
Dame A?
posted by thivaia at 2:06 PM on July 9, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by thivaia at 2:06 PM on July 9, 2020 [2 favorites]
Lady Anti-Antebellum still open
posted by benzenedream at 2:17 PM on July 9, 2020 [7 favorites]
posted by benzenedream at 2:17 PM on July 9, 2020 [7 favorites]
So, Lady Bellum?
posted by JoeZydeco at 2:21 PM on July 9, 2020 [10 favorites]
posted by JoeZydeco at 2:21 PM on July 9, 2020 [10 favorites]
Lady Antegollum, friend of the Riverfolk
posted by benzenedream at 2:21 PM on July 9, 2020 [9 favorites]
posted by benzenedream at 2:21 PM on July 9, 2020 [9 favorites]
Lady We're Taking Too Much Heat for How White Supremacy Looks Today, but Wink Wink.
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 2:22 PM on July 9, 2020 [7 favorites]
posted by Abehammerb Lincoln at 2:22 PM on July 9, 2020 [7 favorites]
No Weapon formed against me shall prosper
The real Lady A seems like a total badass (that's from her Twitter).
posted by Foci for Analysis at 2:26 PM on July 9, 2020 [3 favorites]
The real Lady A seems like a total badass (that's from her Twitter).
posted by Foci for Analysis at 2:26 PM on July 9, 2020 [3 favorites]
To quote from their announcement in Rolling Stone of the name change, "Causing pain was never our hearts’ intention, but it doesn’t change the fact that it indeed did just that. Today, we speak up and make a change. We hope you will dig in and join us.”"
I really wish they'd, you know, actually listen to the words coming out of their own mouths. Here they are, causing pain to a Black artist, maybe not intentionally, but that doesn't change the facts.
I hope they dig themselves out and join us in seeing the BS they've been shoveling.
posted by gryftir at 2:43 PM on July 9, 2020 [8 favorites]
I really wish they'd, you know, actually listen to the words coming out of their own mouths. Here they are, causing pain to a Black artist, maybe not intentionally, but that doesn't change the facts.
I hope they dig themselves out and join us in seeing the BS they've been shoveling.
posted by gryftir at 2:43 PM on July 9, 2020 [8 favorites]
Apparently some people have started calling them Lady Anti-BLM.
posted by Lexica at 2:50 PM on July 9, 2020 [188 favorites]
posted by Lexica at 2:50 PM on July 9, 2020 [188 favorites]
Re: the 10 million figure. After initial conversations post-band-name-change announcement fizzled, the blues singer Lady A, Anita White, got new legal representation and approached the trio with an offer. Rolling Stone, July 8: ... on July 7th, White sent a new proposal to the band. The suit calls White’s $10 million settlement proposal “exorbitant.” White has since told Rolling Stone that she asked for $5 million for herself and another $5 million to be donated to Black Lives Matter. “I didn’t ask for anything before; I told them multiple times I didn’t want to coexist. I shouldn’t have to fight for my name. They have totally, totally erased me,” White tells Rolling Stone. “In light of the text messages of them being warm and fuzzy, that was all an act, and I see that now.”
posted by Iris Gambol at 2:50 PM on July 9, 2020 [59 favorites]
posted by Iris Gambol at 2:50 PM on July 9, 2020 [59 favorites]
The band is likely to win a legal fight here solely because they are better capitalized and have the existing trademark. Or White might be able to get a license to continue using the name. These disputes are overwhelmingly settled on who has more money but they can go either way.
But the band is going to lose with the public which has got to be the stupidest own goal ever for something like your brand new band name. A practical group would turn this on it's ear, admit the name is problematic (in two ways!) transfer the trademark to White and just Pick. A. New. Name. They'd come out looking if not good at least not evil and they've gotten a stack of free press for the name change.
posted by Mitheral at 2:50 PM on July 9, 2020 [22 favorites]
But the band is going to lose with the public which has got to be the stupidest own goal ever for something like your brand new band name. A practical group would turn this on it's ear, admit the name is problematic (in two ways!) transfer the trademark to White and just Pick. A. New. Name. They'd come out looking if not good at least not evil and they've gotten a stack of free press for the name change.
posted by Mitheral at 2:50 PM on July 9, 2020 [22 favorites]
Apparently some people have started calling them Lady Anti-BLM.
posted by Lexica at 5:50 PM on July 9
I only regret, that I have but one favorite to give to this comment.
posted by heatherlogan at 2:52 PM on July 9, 2020 [49 favorites]
posted by Lexica at 5:50 PM on July 9
I only regret, that I have but one favorite to give to this comment.
posted by heatherlogan at 2:52 PM on July 9, 2020 [49 favorites]
They could pivot to being a Henry Winkler themed band and call themselves Lady Ayyy!
posted by GenjiandProust at 2:54 PM on July 9, 2020 [6 favorites]
posted by GenjiandProust at 2:54 PM on July 9, 2020 [6 favorites]
No Weapon formed against me shall prosper
That's a Bible verse. The context is a passage from the Book of Isaiah where God promises to defend the oppressed and turn their sadness into joy. Lady A Prime is saying that although the Postbellums may have more resources than her, she is so much in the right that God Almighty is on her side.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 2:55 PM on July 9, 2020 [12 favorites]
That's a Bible verse. The context is a passage from the Book of Isaiah where God promises to defend the oppressed and turn their sadness into joy. Lady A Prime is saying that although the Postbellums may have more resources than her, she is so much in the right that God Almighty is on her side.
posted by justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow at 2:55 PM on July 9, 2020 [12 favorites]
I'd never heard of them, and now I've never heard their music, don't want to, and think they suck. Maybe they wanted to stress-test the idea that there's no such thing as bad publicity?
posted by Sing Or Swim at 2:56 PM on July 9, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by Sing Or Swim at 2:56 PM on July 9, 2020 [4 favorites]
I don't see why anyone thinks they should keep the "Lady" part.
Ooo, what'about "Lady Parts"?
posted by krisjohn at 2:57 PM on July 9, 2020 [4 favorites]
Ooo, what'about "Lady Parts"?
posted by krisjohn at 2:57 PM on July 9, 2020 [4 favorites]
What do you have against lady parts?
posted by GenjiandProust at 2:59 PM on July 9, 2020 [5 favorites]
posted by GenjiandProust at 2:59 PM on July 9, 2020 [5 favorites]
"The Postbellums" is a reasonably groovy name, actually.
posted by heatherlogan at 3:02 PM on July 9, 2020 [7 favorites]
posted by heatherlogan at 3:02 PM on July 9, 2020 [7 favorites]
Lady Antebellum just needs to change their name to Lady Karen and call it a day.
posted by vverse23 at 3:03 PM on July 9, 2020 [28 favorites]
posted by vverse23 at 3:03 PM on July 9, 2020 [28 favorites]
Lady Anti-Bellum might've been cool, too late now.
posted by BrotherCaine at 3:04 PM on July 9, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by BrotherCaine at 3:04 PM on July 9, 2020 [2 favorites]
Someone in their management needs better impulse control.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 3:07 PM on July 9, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by A Terrible Llama at 3:07 PM on July 9, 2020 [4 favorites]
I am constantly confused by people who don't take 2 minutes to Google the name they're considering for something before picking it. That is the first thing I do. It is not hard. There are cases where I may think there's not going to be any confusion between what I'm doing and what someone else is doing and I'll go with it, but I always, always do a search first. Always.
The band just needs to pick a new name. But I hope they Google it first.
(My favorite case of this was when a notoriously annoying comic book publisher decided they'd throw people off from their annoyingness by changing their name to Stormfront. People immediately pointed it out to them after they announced their name change and they were all "Oh, we didn't know ..." and then gave some wishy-washy answer and such about how they did not intend to associate themselves with white supremacists but they were just too lazy to spend 30 seconds on a search engine. I forget what this company is now calling themselves, or even if they're still around.)
posted by darksong at 3:09 PM on July 9, 2020 [10 favorites]
The band just needs to pick a new name. But I hope they Google it first.
(My favorite case of this was when a notoriously annoying comic book publisher decided they'd throw people off from their annoyingness by changing their name to Stormfront. People immediately pointed it out to them after they announced their name change and they were all "Oh, we didn't know ..." and then gave some wishy-washy answer and such about how they did not intend to associate themselves with white supremacists but they were just too lazy to spend 30 seconds on a search engine. I forget what this company is now calling themselves, or even if they're still around.)
posted by darksong at 3:09 PM on July 9, 2020 [10 favorites]
Maybe "Lady C+ At Best"
posted by Foosnark at 3:15 PM on July 9, 2020 [19 favorites]
posted by Foosnark at 3:15 PM on July 9, 2020 [19 favorites]
Apparently some people have started calling them Lady Anti-BLM.
:chefkiss:
posted by acb at 3:15 PM on July 9, 2020 [12 favorites]
:chefkiss:
posted by acb at 3:15 PM on July 9, 2020 [12 favorites]
Lady Cracka.
posted by Afghan Stan at 3:18 PM on July 9, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by Afghan Stan at 3:18 PM on July 9, 2020 [3 favorites]
I suggest "Hey, )ady!" They continue. With their current musical canon but sung in the style of Jerry Lewis.
posted by nestor_makhno at 3:20 PM on July 9, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by nestor_makhno at 3:20 PM on July 9, 2020 [4 favorites]
Lady research:
Lady B = rapper
I'd assumed Lady A was hex and Ladies 0--9 were out there performing stuff that's not Mongolian metal
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 3:25 PM on July 9, 2020 [7 favorites]
Lady B = rapper
I'd assumed Lady A was hex and Ladies 0--9 were out there performing stuff that's not Mongolian metal
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 3:25 PM on July 9, 2020 [7 favorites]
I am constantly confused by people who don't take 2 minutes to Google the name they're considering for something before picking it.
I can't disagree that this is a bad look for the band, and that they ought to find a Plan [Lady] B. But the link in Emera Gratia's comment covers this off pretty well: this was a sufficiently well-known nickname for the band that they filed (and obtained) several federal trademark registrations for the mark LADY A going on 10 years ago. Before a mark registers, it is examined by the US Patent & Trademark Office and it is published for opposition, and it cleared both of those steps.
So from the band's perspective, except to the extent that the other (real?) Lady A has "common law" rights, they have had presumptive nationwide rights to the term LADY A for music since then. Their fans call them Lady A, they sell t-shirts calling themselves Lady A, the press writes stories calling them Lady A. So it wasn't a matter of them suddenly choosing Lady A from thin air; it was them saying "oh crap we shoudn't call ourselves this old racist name anymore; let's just revert to our [federally-registered trademark] nickname." [[They MUST have been aware of the other Lady A and would have seen this coming; that part I can't reconcile.]]
When trademark disputes happen - you think you have the rights to a mark but somebody else thinks that too - you typically negotiate a coexistence agreement where each of you acknowledges that you are cool with the other. It sounds like they tried that and both sides overplayed their hand. Big band Lady A no doubt said "we own this but we'll let you use it, too" and original Lady A likely understood that all the optics were with her and she got there first so she asked for several million dollars.
Before you blast me into oblivion, I 100% agree that the band ought to just cut their losses and move on. And I 100% agree that a lawsuit - even where it may be legally meritorious - is often a terrible decision. But the context here is instructive. They are tone-deaf and petulant, maybe, but they have some basis for suggesting that they have a right to the name, too.
posted by AgentRocket at 3:37 PM on July 9, 2020 [27 favorites]
I can't disagree that this is a bad look for the band, and that they ought to find a Plan [Lady] B. But the link in Emera Gratia's comment covers this off pretty well: this was a sufficiently well-known nickname for the band that they filed (and obtained) several federal trademark registrations for the mark LADY A going on 10 years ago. Before a mark registers, it is examined by the US Patent & Trademark Office and it is published for opposition, and it cleared both of those steps.
So from the band's perspective, except to the extent that the other (real?) Lady A has "common law" rights, they have had presumptive nationwide rights to the term LADY A for music since then. Their fans call them Lady A, they sell t-shirts calling themselves Lady A, the press writes stories calling them Lady A. So it wasn't a matter of them suddenly choosing Lady A from thin air; it was them saying "oh crap we shoudn't call ourselves this old racist name anymore; let's just revert to our [federally-registered trademark] nickname." [[They MUST have been aware of the other Lady A and would have seen this coming; that part I can't reconcile.]]
When trademark disputes happen - you think you have the rights to a mark but somebody else thinks that too - you typically negotiate a coexistence agreement where each of you acknowledges that you are cool with the other. It sounds like they tried that and both sides overplayed their hand. Big band Lady A no doubt said "we own this but we'll let you use it, too" and original Lady A likely understood that all the optics were with her and she got there first so she asked for several million dollars.
Before you blast me into oblivion, I 100% agree that the band ought to just cut their losses and move on. And I 100% agree that a lawsuit - even where it may be legally meritorious - is often a terrible decision. But the context here is instructive. They are tone-deaf and petulant, maybe, but they have some basis for suggesting that they have a right to the name, too.
posted by AgentRocket at 3:37 PM on July 9, 2020 [27 favorites]
Infinite lol at $10 million be too big an ask, half of which would be donated and not even going directly to Lady A in the first place. God forbid a black person ask to be paid for their trademark. How much is 10 mil divided over 20 years of this woman's career? Should she have asked 6.67 mil instead?
posted by Freeze Peach at 3:39 PM on July 9, 2020 [20 favorites]
posted by Freeze Peach at 3:39 PM on July 9, 2020 [20 favorites]
The facts according to me (from barely perusing this)
Blues Lady A has been performing under this moniker for around 20 years.
Country Lady A has been performing since 2006; but applied for and got a trademark for Lady A in 2011.
In 2020, the Country Lady A decided to become Lady A and like any corporate entity decided to clean up the IP portfolio.
My understanding of Trademark law is that any trademark issued by the USPTO is considered prima facie valid as it has gone through an approval process. This surprises me as a trademark search by the USPTO should have turned up the Seattle Blues Lady A. Maybe it did and the lawyers for the country people were able to argue against it. I would have to see the prosecution file to answer that.
The second prong of the Trademark is that it is not enough to obtain one. You have to use it in commerce for it to remain valid. This is why NFL has those hideous throwback uniforms every now and then. And if you find anyone else using it, you have to vigorously defend your trademark. This is why NFL also vigorously defends its SUPER BOWL trademark every year.
Has Country Lady A been selling merchandise based on this trademark? Have they contacted this Seattle lady before this to clean this up? If not; the Seattle lady can argue for intentional dilution. Especially with the internet; a simple search will deliver the results, so the Country Lady A cannot say that they did not know. You HAVE to do your own diligence before applying for the trademark. Although the Country Lady A has the official trademark; the fact that the Seattle lady has been performing for longer under this name; and both their own lawyers and the USPTO did not come across this information reflects badly on the whole process. Also now with the new Inter partes process being used by the USPTO; the Seattle lady can go to the USPTO to get the Country people's trademark nullified. Unlike a Patent, trademark has no time limit. So it is treated with a little more caution before approval. The fact that the search at the USPTO was done so badly that they missed another MUSICIAN with the same name, performing for more than 10 years; may mean that the Country Lady A may lose their trademark in a inter partes proceeding.
So what I am saying is.... IMHO, Country Lady A better pay up. 10 million actually sounds reasonable. Plus there is no way that they will be able to coexist amicably. When you search on any engine, the Seattle Lady has no chance of showing up. So she is being essentially asked to vacate her name.
posted by indianbadger1 at 3:43 PM on July 9, 2020 [35 favorites]
Blues Lady A has been performing under this moniker for around 20 years.
Country Lady A has been performing since 2006; but applied for and got a trademark for Lady A in 2011.
In 2020, the Country Lady A decided to become Lady A and like any corporate entity decided to clean up the IP portfolio.
My understanding of Trademark law is that any trademark issued by the USPTO is considered prima facie valid as it has gone through an approval process. This surprises me as a trademark search by the USPTO should have turned up the Seattle Blues Lady A. Maybe it did and the lawyers for the country people were able to argue against it. I would have to see the prosecution file to answer that.
The second prong of the Trademark is that it is not enough to obtain one. You have to use it in commerce for it to remain valid. This is why NFL has those hideous throwback uniforms every now and then. And if you find anyone else using it, you have to vigorously defend your trademark. This is why NFL also vigorously defends its SUPER BOWL trademark every year.
Has Country Lady A been selling merchandise based on this trademark? Have they contacted this Seattle lady before this to clean this up? If not; the Seattle lady can argue for intentional dilution. Especially with the internet; a simple search will deliver the results, so the Country Lady A cannot say that they did not know. You HAVE to do your own diligence before applying for the trademark. Although the Country Lady A has the official trademark; the fact that the Seattle lady has been performing for longer under this name; and both their own lawyers and the USPTO did not come across this information reflects badly on the whole process. Also now with the new Inter partes process being used by the USPTO; the Seattle lady can go to the USPTO to get the Country people's trademark nullified. Unlike a Patent, trademark has no time limit. So it is treated with a little more caution before approval. The fact that the search at the USPTO was done so badly that they missed another MUSICIAN with the same name, performing for more than 10 years; may mean that the Country Lady A may lose their trademark in a inter partes proceeding.
So what I am saying is.... IMHO, Country Lady A better pay up. 10 million actually sounds reasonable. Plus there is no way that they will be able to coexist amicably. When you search on any engine, the Seattle Lady has no chance of showing up. So she is being essentially asked to vacate her name.
posted by indianbadger1 at 3:43 PM on July 9, 2020 [35 favorites]
Lady Reconstruction?
posted by East14thTaco at 3:47 PM on July 9, 2020 [7 favorites]
posted by East14thTaco at 3:47 PM on July 9, 2020 [7 favorites]
Lady Marmalaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaade
posted by sallybrown at 3:48 PM on July 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by sallybrown at 3:48 PM on July 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
Lady Reconstruction.
posted by notsnot at 4:03 PM on July 9, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by notsnot at 4:03 PM on July 9, 2020 [2 favorites]
Sorry to break up the circle jerk, but it's incredibly bog standard to preemptively sue anyone who might have a claim on a trademark you might want to use in order to get things sorted in court as soon as possible. This is especially likely to happen if everyone doesn't initial agree on terms. This literally happens every day, and it has nothing to do with anyone's politics or the righteousness (or lack there of) of anyone's cause. If Chef Boyredee wanted to release a new canned pasta, Conagra Brands would sue everyone who had even a vaguely similar named product as well.
Aaaaaannnnd, doing a quick USPTO search, the country band (Lady A Entertainment LLC in the legal sense), represented by the law firm who also sues everybody for infringing on Jimmy Buffett stuff was granted the "Lady A" service mark the week before the public announcement of the name change. So, and my business filings experience over a decade stale at this point to be honest, my guess is that they've been fighting it out for 9 years and the USPTO finally did the grant, and the BLM protests have little/nothing to do with the name change announcement, just coincidental timing.
While you can have a trademark, in the general sense, just by using a mark as part of your trade (duh), registering it with the USPTO means (amongst other things) you can do things like bring a case in Federal court.
So what I am saying is.... IMHO, Country Lady A better pay up
LOL. I'm sure they pay something for PR reasons, but unless some really deep pockets get involved, this isn't going anywhere near court. Even then, I'll put my money on the firm that makes sure Buffet music related earnings are just a rounding error on his total balance sheet. Keep in the mind, The Beatles are the only band that comes anywhere close to Buffet when to comes to suing people, so this firm has lots and lots of lots of practical experience.
posted by sideshow at 4:04 PM on July 9, 2020 [4 favorites]
Aaaaaannnnd, doing a quick USPTO search, the country band (Lady A Entertainment LLC in the legal sense), represented by the law firm who also sues everybody for infringing on Jimmy Buffett stuff was granted the "Lady A" service mark the week before the public announcement of the name change. So, and my business filings experience over a decade stale at this point to be honest, my guess is that they've been fighting it out for 9 years and the USPTO finally did the grant, and the BLM protests have little/nothing to do with the name change announcement, just coincidental timing.
While you can have a trademark, in the general sense, just by using a mark as part of your trade (duh), registering it with the USPTO means (amongst other things) you can do things like bring a case in Federal court.
So what I am saying is.... IMHO, Country Lady A better pay up
LOL. I'm sure they pay something for PR reasons, but unless some really deep pockets get involved, this isn't going anywhere near court. Even then, I'll put my money on the firm that makes sure Buffet music related earnings are just a rounding error on his total balance sheet. Keep in the mind, The Beatles are the only band that comes anywhere close to Buffet when to comes to suing people, so this firm has lots and lots of lots of practical experience.
posted by sideshow at 4:04 PM on July 9, 2020 [4 favorites]
I know it might *shock* you, but many people in this thread discussing why this move is bad are well aware of who would likely prevail in a lawsuit, and why.
posted by sallybrown at 4:10 PM on July 9, 2020 [71 favorites]
posted by sallybrown at 4:10 PM on July 9, 2020 [71 favorites]
Sorry to break up the circle jerk, but it's incredibly bog standard to preemptively sue anyone who might have a claim on a trademark you might want to use in order to get things sorted in court as soon as possible.
The point isn't that Lady Antebellum doesn't have a legal case. I'm sure their lawyers wouldn't have initiated this shitshow if there weren't a strong legal case. The point is that Lady Antebellum doesn't have a strong moral case — here's this blues singer, minding her own business, releasing her own records for well on 20 years now, and this super-slick, rich country group shows up and just completely fucks her shit up. This makes them look like assholes. Somebody with more corporate accounting experience than me will have to estimate how much that loss of goodwill is worth on a balance sheet.
posted by Mothlight at 4:11 PM on July 9, 2020 [63 favorites]
The point isn't that Lady Antebellum doesn't have a legal case. I'm sure their lawyers wouldn't have initiated this shitshow if there weren't a strong legal case. The point is that Lady Antebellum doesn't have a strong moral case — here's this blues singer, minding her own business, releasing her own records for well on 20 years now, and this super-slick, rich country group shows up and just completely fucks her shit up. This makes them look like assholes. Somebody with more corporate accounting experience than me will have to estimate how much that loss of goodwill is worth on a balance sheet.
posted by Mothlight at 4:11 PM on July 9, 2020 [63 favorites]
Lah di-dah.
posted by flabdablet at 4:17 PM on July 9, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by flabdablet at 4:17 PM on July 9, 2020 [2 favorites]
I am constantly confused by people who don't take 2 minutes to Google the name they're considering
To be fair the country band do already have the Twitter handle, the Instagram handle, the Youtube name. They have 1.5 million followers on instagram compared to just 4,853 for ladya_bluesdiva
So you can see why they might assume they could just steamroller over this, the problem really is that them shortening the name to Lady A, well all of their fans are going to know what the A stands for, so they are not really changing anything. That's the bigger problem.
posted by Lanark at 4:20 PM on July 9, 2020 [6 favorites]
To be fair the country band do already have the Twitter handle, the Instagram handle, the Youtube name. They have 1.5 million followers on instagram compared to just 4,853 for ladya_bluesdiva
So you can see why they might assume they could just steamroller over this, the problem really is that them shortening the name to Lady A, well all of their fans are going to know what the A stands for, so they are not really changing anything. That's the bigger problem.
posted by Lanark at 4:20 PM on July 9, 2020 [6 favorites]
Sorry to break up the circle jerk...
Look, everyone -- it's a Bold Truthteller come to free us from our Comfortable Bubble!
posted by neroli at 4:20 PM on July 9, 2020 [101 favorites]
Look, everyone -- it's a Bold Truthteller come to free us from our Comfortable Bubble!
posted by neroli at 4:20 PM on July 9, 2020 [101 favorites]
Lady Sherman's March To The Sea
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 4:29 PM on July 9, 2020 [20 favorites]
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 4:29 PM on July 9, 2020 [20 favorites]
Sorry to break up the circle jerk, but it's incredibly bog standard to preemptively sue anyone...
Remember when Don Henley / The Eagles sued a hemiplegic veteran named Don Henley for control of donhenley.com and also a non-profit devoted to preserving wild eagles for control of eagles.org? Because I sure as hell do, and I don't really care about the legal merits. I care about how they looked like assholes. I'll probably remember that forever. That's like permanent bad publicity.
Same with this.
posted by BrotherCaine at 4:37 PM on July 9, 2020 [55 favorites]
Remember when Don Henley / The Eagles sued a hemiplegic veteran named Don Henley for control of donhenley.com and also a non-profit devoted to preserving wild eagles for control of eagles.org? Because I sure as hell do, and I don't really care about the legal merits. I care about how they looked like assholes. I'll probably remember that forever. That's like permanent bad publicity.
Same with this.
posted by BrotherCaine at 4:37 PM on July 9, 2020 [55 favorites]
lady atlanta
what am i doing? that's actually a good name
posted by pyramid termite at 4:39 PM on July 9, 2020 [3 favorites]
what am i doing? that's actually a good name
posted by pyramid termite at 4:39 PM on July 9, 2020 [3 favorites]
> Lady Antebellum just needs to change their name to Lady Karen and call it a day.
Oh hell no they'd better not.
posted by ardgedee at 4:39 PM on July 9, 2020
Oh hell no they'd better not.
posted by ardgedee at 4:39 PM on July 9, 2020
Sorry to break up the circle jerk, but...
Charming.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 4:42 PM on July 9, 2020 [33 favorites]
Charming.
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 4:42 PM on July 9, 2020 [33 favorites]
Lady Andersonville
posted by Kirth Gerson at 4:43 PM on July 9, 2020 [6 favorites]
posted by Kirth Gerson at 4:43 PM on July 9, 2020 [6 favorites]
Sorry to break up the circle jerk
Lady Abstinence :-(
posted by sallybrown at 4:44 PM on July 9, 2020 [25 favorites]
Lady Abstinence :-(
posted by sallybrown at 4:44 PM on July 9, 2020 [25 favorites]
I have a tough time believing that they went to the trouble of copyrighting an alternate name ten years ago if they honestly had no idea there might be a problem with their first-choice name.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 4:44 PM on July 9, 2020 [8 favorites]
posted by The Underpants Monster at 4:44 PM on July 9, 2020 [8 favorites]
I have a tough time believing that they went to the trouble of copyrighting an alternate name ten years ago if they honestly had no idea there might be a problem with their first-choice name.
Trademark, not copyright, and would it be surprising if Jennifer Lopez, for example, had a trademark on "JLo"? Or if The Rolling Stones had "The Stones"?
Perhaps they thought it was a cool short form of their name and figured that they might release an album with that name or just slap it on some merchandise at some point in the future.
posted by It's Never Lurgi at 4:58 PM on July 9, 2020 [3 favorites]
Trademark, not copyright, and would it be surprising if Jennifer Lopez, for example, had a trademark on "JLo"? Or if The Rolling Stones had "The Stones"?
Perhaps they thought it was a cool short form of their name and figured that they might release an album with that name or just slap it on some merchandise at some point in the future.
posted by It's Never Lurgi at 4:58 PM on July 9, 2020 [3 favorites]
So, and my business filings experience over a decade stale at this point to be honest, my guess is that they've been fighting it out for 9 years and the USPTO finally did the grant, and the BLM protests have little/nothing to do with the name change announcement, just coincidental timing.
So they had a problematic name that they decided to change 9 years ago but kept it out there while they attempted to steal their new name from a black musician? Whew, glad that it had nothing to do with BLM.
IE even if that narrative is true it makes them look worst not better.
posted by Mitheral at 5:16 PM on July 9, 2020 [9 favorites]
So they had a problematic name that they decided to change 9 years ago but kept it out there while they attempted to steal their new name from a black musician? Whew, glad that it had nothing to do with BLM.
IE even if that narrative is true it makes them look worst not better.
posted by Mitheral at 5:16 PM on July 9, 2020 [9 favorites]
Remember when Don Henley / The Eagles sued a hemiplegic veteran named Don Henley for control of donhenley.com
Nope, and google isn’t providing any info. Got a link?
posted by a box and a stick and a string and a bear at 5:30 PM on July 9, 2020 [2 favorites]
Nope, and google isn’t providing any info. Got a link?
posted by a box and a stick and a string and a bear at 5:30 PM on July 9, 2020 [2 favorites]
Does anyone else remember The Veronicas, in which one band decided to take the name when there was already a band with that name? And then the original band had to change their name to Beyond Veronica? I can't seem to find anything about it now online but that is what I keep thinking of here.
Poor Original Lady A. I hope she wins but I do not have high hopes.
posted by jenfullmoon at 5:51 PM on July 9, 2020
Poor Original Lady A. I hope she wins but I do not have high hopes.
posted by jenfullmoon at 5:51 PM on July 9, 2020
I did find this re eagles.org. I can't find a thing about the donhenley.com site.
posted by XtinaS at 5:52 PM on July 9, 2020
posted by XtinaS at 5:52 PM on July 9, 2020
Drop the pretense of Lady and just call yourself 'The Karens'.
posted by Nanukthedog at 5:52 PM on July 9, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by Nanukthedog at 5:52 PM on July 9, 2020 [3 favorites]
Lady Streisandeffect?
posted by carter at 6:08 PM on July 9, 2020 [5 favorites]
posted by carter at 6:08 PM on July 9, 2020 [5 favorites]
I forget what this company is now calling themselves, or even if they're still around
I am constantly confused by people who don't take 2 minutes to Google the name
posted by slater at 6:10 PM on July 9, 2020 [2 favorites]
I am constantly confused by people who don't take 2 minutes to Google the name
posted by slater at 6:10 PM on July 9, 2020 [2 favorites]
Lady Also or White Lady A?
posted by emelenjr at 6:31 PM on July 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by emelenjr at 6:31 PM on July 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
I forget what this company is now calling themselves, or even if they're still around
I am constantly confused by people who don't take 2 minutes to Google the name
Oh, hi, I did, and they're called TidalWave Productions now. They are still bad. I didn't think adding that to my point really had a point, but OK, whatever.
posted by darksong at 6:31 PM on July 9, 2020 [5 favorites]
I am constantly confused by people who don't take 2 minutes to Google the name
Oh, hi, I did, and they're called TidalWave Productions now. They are still bad. I didn't think adding that to my point really had a point, but OK, whatever.
posted by darksong at 6:31 PM on July 9, 2020 [5 favorites]
A confederacy of ladies?
The treatment every post they are doing on social media is getting is a thing of beauty.
posted by inflatablekiwi at 6:47 PM on July 9, 2020 [3 favorites]
The treatment every post they are doing on social media is getting is a thing of beauty.
posted by inflatablekiwi at 6:47 PM on July 9, 2020 [3 favorites]
Lady Fort Pillow Massacre sounds like an all-girl surf/go-go Brian Jonestown Massacre cover band, which I'd wouldn't mind seeing, actually, unlike this litigious cover band.
And to respond to Sideshow, no, litigation in trademark law is a last resort, not a standard practice, indicating really that something fell apart badly during the negotiation practices between the parties. The label might have deeper pockets but that doesn't mean their claim is supported by precedent.
posted by LeRoienJaune at 7:01 PM on July 9, 2020 [4 favorites]
And to respond to Sideshow, no, litigation in trademark law is a last resort, not a standard practice, indicating really that something fell apart badly during the negotiation practices between the parties. The label might have deeper pockets but that doesn't mean their claim is supported by precedent.
posted by LeRoienJaune at 7:01 PM on July 9, 2020 [4 favorites]
Lady Also or White Lady A?
Drop the pretense of Lady and just call yourself 'The Karens'.
How about Miss Ann? That was basically a Karen before Karens became a thing.
posted by fuse theorem at 7:04 PM on July 9, 2020 [3 favorites]
Drop the pretense of Lady and just call yourself 'The Karens'.
How about Miss Ann? That was basically a Karen before Karens became a thing.
posted by fuse theorem at 7:04 PM on July 9, 2020 [3 favorites]
Should she have asked 6.67 mil instead?
If it comes out that their counteroffer to the $10 million request was $6 million, we'll know they're trolling.
posted by eviemath at 7:08 PM on July 9, 2020 [7 favorites]
If it comes out that their counteroffer to the $10 million request was $6 million, we'll know they're trolling.
posted by eviemath at 7:08 PM on July 9, 2020 [7 favorites]
Has Country Lady A been selling merchandise based on this trademark?
Yes, their fans have been calling them "Lady A" for years. From their 2018 tour
posted by workerunit at 7:20 PM on July 9, 2020
Yes, their fans have been calling them "Lady A" for years. From their 2018 tour
posted by workerunit at 7:20 PM on July 9, 2020
If it comes out that their counteroffer to the $10 million request was $6 million, we'll know they're trolling.
Took me a minute but OH! SNAP! I see what you did there.
(hint: make it a fraction and reduce it to lowest terms...)
posted by notsnot at 7:29 PM on July 9, 2020 [7 favorites]
They have fans, and I wonder what the fans think. I find it difficult to believe the name change was in the works; it's bad business to change the name of a successful band. most of the time. Jefferson Balsa Wood Plane/ Airplane/ Starship notwithstanding. They could embrace it and become Lady Change, Lady Delta, something. This is really shitty, and I hope it hurts their sales as much as I think it will.
posted by theora55 at 8:04 PM on July 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by theora55 at 8:04 PM on July 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
A six syllable band name shoulda been a "no" from the start.
Unless you're Mr. T. Experience and then carry on.
posted by alex_skazat at 8:05 PM on July 9, 2020 [3 favorites]
Unless you're Mr. T. Experience and then carry on.
posted by alex_skazat at 8:05 PM on July 9, 2020 [3 favorites]
A six syllable band name shoulda been a "no" from the start.
There's a group here calling themselves "Godspeed You! Black Emperor" who'd like to disagree.
posted by hanov3r at 8:08 PM on July 9, 2020 [12 favorites]
There's a group here calling themselves "Godspeed You! Black Emperor" who'd like to disagree.
posted by hanov3r at 8:08 PM on July 9, 2020 [12 favorites]
An indie artist I used to follow closely was offered like $50k for one of his songs to be in a Coke, he said no, not interested. They came backat $100k. He countered at $250k, saying if he was gonna sell out, it had to at least pay private school and college tuition. They wouldn't budge above 100. At least he came out of it with a cool between song anecdote.
Hopefulky the orginal Lady A comes out of this with a decent amount of cash.
posted by CostcoCultist at 8:09 PM on July 9, 2020
Hopefulky the orginal Lady A comes out of this with a decent amount of cash.
posted by CostcoCultist at 8:09 PM on July 9, 2020
This is a terrible look for them, and regardless of how the legal proceedings play out, I hope they carry that stain publicly for the rest of their lives.
posted by Dip Flash at 8:21 PM on July 9, 2020 [6 favorites]
posted by Dip Flash at 8:21 PM on July 9, 2020 [6 favorites]
Sorry to break up the circle jerk
Nothing like starting off your comment with some homophobic banter to really get your point across...
posted by Umami Dearest at 8:25 PM on July 9, 2020 [28 favorites]
Nothing like starting off your comment with some homophobic banter to really get your point across...
posted by Umami Dearest at 8:25 PM on July 9, 2020 [28 favorites]
Lady Delta,
Was this not an Anais Nin novel?
posted by ricochet biscuit at 8:29 PM on July 9, 2020 [3 favorites]
Was this not an Anais Nin novel?
posted by ricochet biscuit at 8:29 PM on July 9, 2020 [3 favorites]
They could have gone with Lady Anti-Antebellum in the interim to make a splash, then quickly progressed to just LA^2 for short (L.A squared).
And if you find out you are treading on anyone’s trademark you just increase the power by 2 until you get clear. *taps temple* because that’s maths
posted by inflatablekiwi at 8:37 PM on July 9, 2020 [4 favorites]
And if you find out you are treading on anyone’s trademark you just increase the power by 2 until you get clear. *taps temple* because that’s maths
posted by inflatablekiwi at 8:37 PM on July 9, 2020 [4 favorites]
Lady Reformation.
posted by Homo neanderthalensis at 8:45 PM on July 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by Homo neanderthalensis at 8:45 PM on July 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
Top notch legal team ya got there, White Lady A. Really, just stellar minds in that operation.
The marketing team is even better!
posted by Tom-B at 9:05 PM on July 9, 2020
The marketing team is even better!
posted by Tom-B at 9:05 PM on July 9, 2020
Realistically, they could have chosen pretty much any other name and their fans would have followed them to it. At this point, trying to cling to the association to "antebellum" seems like a choice.
posted by Lexica at 9:30 PM on July 9, 2020 [6 favorites]
posted by Lexica at 9:30 PM on July 9, 2020 [6 favorites]
Lady aLL liVeS mAtteR
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 9:42 PM on July 9, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by His thoughts were red thoughts at 9:42 PM on July 9, 2020 [3 favorites]
Fuck these racists, they don't deserve our headspace. This is pure Tr*mp strategy, any publicity is good publicity. How about pulling a Jacinda Arden and just not saying their name? Google is paying attention! How about just listening to Lady A instead? The racist fucks have VEVO and have already pushed her waaaay down in the Youtube listings, and most of the top Lady A's videos are just talk about the lawsuit. But I found this and, yeah! Thumbs up, leave comments! Also, how about buying some of her songs? (if someone has a non-Amazon link it's much apreciated, fuck Bezos too)
posted by Tom-B at 9:52 PM on July 9, 2020 [6 favorites]
posted by Tom-B at 9:52 PM on July 9, 2020 [6 favorites]
^Apple Music has Lady A albums, including her "Bluez In the Key of Me" (with a Bill Withers cover, unfortunately not on her YouTube channel) released April 11, 2010.
A little over a month later, the band filed its first "Lady A" trademark applications:
Serial Number 85042047 (Reg. Number 4292685) and Serial Number 85975356 (Reg. Number 4004006) were filed on May 18, 2010; Serial Number 85089816 (Reg. Number 4030752) was filed on July 21, 2010. The First Use/First Use in Commerce dates are listed on each application. [Compare Serial Number 77182350 (Reg. Number 3359425), their May 16, 2007 mark application for the full name.]
Billboard, 7/8/2020: In the suit, the trio says the group has used Lady Antebellum and Lady A interchangeably as early as 2006-2007, and includes a page from its website in 2008 that cites the band by the nickname, as well as several other references to the band as Lady A through the years. In May 2010, according to the suit and U.S. Patent and Trademark Office filings reviewed by Billboard, the band applied to register Lady A for entertainment purposes, including live musical performances and streaming musical programming. After there was no opposition filed by any person or entity, the application was registered on July 26, 2011. Further applications to register the name for musical recordings and clothing were also granted after there was no opposition.
The trio's latest "Lady A" trademark application, Serial Number 88955713, was filed on June 9, 2020 -- two days before the "name-change after much soul-searching, prayer, and bothering our Black acquaintances" announcement.
posted by Iris Gambol at 11:06 PM on July 9, 2020 [7 favorites]
A little over a month later, the band filed its first "Lady A" trademark applications:
Serial Number 85042047 (Reg. Number 4292685) and Serial Number 85975356 (Reg. Number 4004006) were filed on May 18, 2010; Serial Number 85089816 (Reg. Number 4030752) was filed on July 21, 2010. The First Use/First Use in Commerce dates are listed on each application. [Compare Serial Number 77182350 (Reg. Number 3359425), their May 16, 2007 mark application for the full name.]
Billboard, 7/8/2020: In the suit, the trio says the group has used Lady Antebellum and Lady A interchangeably as early as 2006-2007, and includes a page from its website in 2008 that cites the band by the nickname, as well as several other references to the band as Lady A through the years. In May 2010, according to the suit and U.S. Patent and Trademark Office filings reviewed by Billboard, the band applied to register Lady A for entertainment purposes, including live musical performances and streaming musical programming. After there was no opposition filed by any person or entity, the application was registered on July 26, 2011. Further applications to register the name for musical recordings and clothing were also granted after there was no opposition.
The trio's latest "Lady A" trademark application, Serial Number 88955713, was filed on June 9, 2020 -- two days before the "name-change after much soul-searching, prayer, and bothering our Black acquaintances" announcement.
posted by Iris Gambol at 11:06 PM on July 9, 2020 [7 favorites]
Lady Anticeded
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 11:18 PM on July 9, 2020
posted by They sucked his brains out! at 11:18 PM on July 9, 2020
Lady May Their Names Be Blotted Out
posted by StarkRoads at 11:26 PM on July 9, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by StarkRoads at 11:26 PM on July 9, 2020 [3 favorites]
Sorry to break up the circle jerk, but it's incredibly bog standard to preemptively sue anyone who might have a claim on a trademark you might want to use in order to get things sorted in court as soon as possible.
Listen up legal and IP professionals commenting in a balanced and nuanced way on the complexities of this! A software developer has arrived!
posted by howfar at 12:50 AM on July 10, 2020 [53 favorites]
Listen up legal and IP professionals commenting in a balanced and nuanced way on the complexities of this! A software developer has arrived!
posted by howfar at 12:50 AM on July 10, 2020 [53 favorites]
Lady Anteshutthefup has a net worth of $41 million as of April 2019.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/30-richest-country-music-stars-102155493.html
They can shut up, pay up, and still buy a yacht with a tiny yacht inside.
posted by affectionateborg at 2:39 AM on July 10, 2020 [13 favorites]
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/30-richest-country-music-stars-102155493.html
They can shut up, pay up, and still buy a yacht with a tiny yacht inside.
posted by affectionateborg at 2:39 AM on July 10, 2020 [13 favorites]
"Lady research:
...Lady J = GI Joe character"....
Lady J (and Lady P): Also a brand of female urination device.
posted by baseballpajamas at 7:13 AM on July 10, 2020 [2 favorites]
...Lady J = GI Joe character"....
Lady J (and Lady P): Also a brand of female urination device.
posted by baseballpajamas at 7:13 AM on July 10, 2020 [2 favorites]
Lady Herostratus? Lady Damnatio Memoriae?
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:20 AM on July 10, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:20 AM on July 10, 2020 [1 favorite]
If they want to keep enough of the old name to be recognizable (as in Kentucky Fried Chicken —> KFC, or Master Charge —> MasterCard), maybe Lady Antecedent? Lady Antediluvian? Lady Anteater?
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:29 AM on July 10, 2020
posted by ricochet biscuit at 7:29 AM on July 10, 2020
Sorry to break up the circle jerk, but...
"Hi, everyone? Everyone? I was just on my way to Zumba, and I thought you should know that you're all, how shall I say, jerking off? Not that there's anything wrong with that. Except that you're doing it wrong. Anyway, carry on! Love the music, by the way."
posted by swift at 7:37 AM on July 10, 2020 [9 favorites]
"Hi, everyone? Everyone? I was just on my way to Zumba, and I thought you should know that you're all, how shall I say, jerking off? Not that there's anything wrong with that. Except that you're doing it wrong. Anyway, carry on! Love the music, by the way."
posted by swift at 7:37 AM on July 10, 2020 [9 favorites]
I gotchyer “something special and beautiful out of this moment” right here.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 7:58 AM on July 10, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by flapjax at midnite at 7:58 AM on July 10, 2020 [4 favorites]
Nope, and google isn’t providing any info. Got a link?
Sadly no. It was 20+ years ago I think. Not sure if they settled or what.
posted by BrotherCaine at 11:06 AM on July 10, 2020
Sadly no. It was 20+ years ago I think. Not sure if they settled or what.
posted by BrotherCaine at 11:06 AM on July 10, 2020
Oh wait, the Don Henley thing was don-henley.com and it was a cease and desist. Scroll down here.
posted by BrotherCaine at 11:15 AM on July 10, 2020
posted by BrotherCaine at 11:15 AM on July 10, 2020
I vote for Lady Antifa.
posted by zeusianfog at 2:56 PM on July 10, 2020 [5 favorites]
posted by zeusianfog at 2:56 PM on July 10, 2020 [5 favorites]
A law professor specializing in trademarks reviews the situation. Pretty sure this isn't in the thread so far.
posted by rhizome at 3:37 PM on July 10, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by rhizome at 3:37 PM on July 10, 2020 [1 favorite]
Lady Antebellum vs Lady A lawsuit: A trademark attorney explains. (Slate)
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 5:32 PM on July 10, 2020
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 5:32 PM on July 10, 2020
The trademark attorney in the Slate link, Alexandra Roberts, joins fellow attorneys (& fellow professors) Anjali Vats and Shontavia Johnson for "A Conversation about Lady Antebellum, trademark law, & performative allyship in the BLM era" on YouTube; also embedded at @ShontaviaJEsq
posted by Iris Gambol at 6:00 PM on July 10, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by Iris Gambol at 6:00 PM on July 10, 2020 [2 favorites]
Like most in here, I am casting serious side-eye at the country band right now. Hard eye roll when they first said they were changing their name to Lady A. Mostly, as others have mentioned, it's just a way to hide "the true name", rather then to completely denounce it.
I first learned about them when I was working at a restaurant and their song would repeat multiple times a day. (I say song even though I know they have multiple songs. They all sounded exactly the same to me in content and key/structure, etc.) I finally googled the lyrics once just to see who this band who literally made me sad several times a day were.
Somehow, I had never heard, or remember hearing the word Antebellum prior to that. So, of course I googled that, too.
Prior to the name change that still references the original name, I may have given them the smallest benefit of the doubt that they were only aware of the word via architecture. (Oh, wow! I just googled and that is their story! Maybe I read that as well, once?)
As a whole, it's too hard to believe:
1. "We named ourselves after our first band photos." What?
2. "We chose the name based on architecture(npr). We didn't know it would be considered racist. Even though the architecture is mostly plantation houses."
3. 14 years later "We just realized how racist it is, so we're totally changing it! But, we are changing it to something that will remind you of the LEGACY of the band. The HERITAGE, even!
4. "Oh, we're appropriating the name from a Black woman? Who would have thought to Google that before changing our name now? Or even when we applied for the trademark years ago as we are legally obligated to do?"
I know there are plenty of southerners who are just indoctrinated with the view that, for example, "I fly the confederate flag as remembrance of my ancestors, not to be racist." I can imagine that would be hard to break free from that mindset.
In this case? It is sure coming across as good ol' boys wink-wink nudge-nudge, "NO, WE NEVER MEANT ANYTHING RACIST AT ALL!"
I am of half a mind their next album will be called words, and will have 14 tracks on it.
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 6:39 PM on July 10, 2020 [7 favorites]
I first learned about them when I was working at a restaurant and their song would repeat multiple times a day. (I say song even though I know they have multiple songs. They all sounded exactly the same to me in content and key/structure, etc.) I finally googled the lyrics once just to see who this band who literally made me sad several times a day were.
Somehow, I had never heard, or remember hearing the word Antebellum prior to that. So, of course I googled that, too.
Prior to the name change that still references the original name, I may have given them the smallest benefit of the doubt that they were only aware of the word via architecture. (Oh, wow! I just googled and that is their story! Maybe I read that as well, once?)
As a whole, it's too hard to believe:
1. "We named ourselves after our first band photos." What?
2. "We chose the name based on architecture(npr). We didn't know it would be considered racist. Even though the architecture is mostly plantation houses."
3. 14 years later "We just realized how racist it is, so we're totally changing it! But, we are changing it to something that will remind you of the LEGACY of the band. The HERITAGE, even!
4. "Oh, we're appropriating the name from a Black woman? Who would have thought to Google that before changing our name now? Or even when we applied for the trademark years ago as we are legally obligated to do?"
I know there are plenty of southerners who are just indoctrinated with the view that, for example, "I fly the confederate flag as remembrance of my ancestors, not to be racist." I can imagine that would be hard to break free from that mindset.
In this case? It is sure coming across as good ol' boys wink-wink nudge-nudge, "NO, WE NEVER MEANT ANYTHING RACIST AT ALL!"
I am of half a mind their next album will be called words, and will have 14 tracks on it.
posted by a non mouse, a cow herd at 6:39 PM on July 10, 2020 [7 favorites]
plus ça change
We see you, America.
Signed: the rest of the world.
pity we don't seem to see ourselves as clearly
posted by flabdablet at 6:47 PM on July 10, 2020 [3 favorites]
We see you, America.
Signed: the rest of the world.
pity we don't seem to see ourselves as clearly
posted by flabdablet at 6:47 PM on July 10, 2020 [3 favorites]
I’m sure they can figure it out before their next recording secession.
posted by The Underpants Monster at 7:28 PM on July 10, 2020 [8 favorites]
posted by The Underpants Monster at 7:28 PM on July 10, 2020 [8 favorites]
A six syllable band name shoulda been a "no" from the start.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but you've just lost all the Elephant 6 fans in the room.
posted by thivaia at 5:55 AM on July 11, 2020 [1 favorite]
I'm not saying you're wrong, but you've just lost all the Elephant 6 fans in the room.
posted by thivaia at 5:55 AM on July 11, 2020 [1 favorite]
Ambient duo A Winged Victory for the Sullen (8 or 9 syllables, depending on how one pronounces 'winged') sometimes abbreviates their name to AWVftS (still eight syllables).
posted by box at 6:20 AM on July 11, 2020
posted by box at 6:20 AM on July 11, 2020
Maybe that's why I never heard of them.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 7:32 AM on July 11, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by Kirth Gerson at 7:32 AM on July 11, 2020 [1 favorite]
Lady A Explains Why Co-Existence With Country Band Will Not Work: “Lady Antebellum Has Erased Me From Every Platform”
posted by jenfullmoon at 5:25 PM on July 11, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by jenfullmoon at 5:25 PM on July 11, 2020 [4 favorites]
Never like their music in the first place. Now I have another reason to dislike them.
I'm digging the real Lady A.
posted by kathrynm at 6:01 PM on July 11, 2020 [2 favorites]
I'm digging the real Lady A.
posted by kathrynm at 6:01 PM on July 11, 2020 [2 favorites]
@sideshow: LOL. I'm sure they pay something for PR reasons, but unless some really deep pockets get involved, this isn't going anywhere near court.
Your derision aside, it is already in the court, as this is a declarative judgement lawsuit we are all commenting on right? Not a threat of one, but a real actual lawsuit.
The fact that this is a declarative judgement lawsuit filed by the Country Lady A people asking for the court to preemptively declare their trademark valid; tells you that they feel their trademark is kinda shaky to begin with. Also, if you notice; they are not calling for the Seattle Lady A to STOP using the trademark; just to stop her from suing them AND allowing her the use of the trademark. If you are confident in your Trademark; there is no way in hell you are filing this kinda suit, admitting the possibility of dilution. What is then to prevent the Seattle Lady A to use her rights (expressly given to her by the country Lady A) and resell those to another country band? Plus, according to everything I am reading; they went forum shopping on this; because there is variance on trademark dilution standards depending on which jurisdiction you are operating in.
Again, this reeks of shakiness.
All that aside, my original points still stand. If this gets to a real trial; there is a good possibility that the Lady A trademark given to the country people may get nullified, either in a circuit court or in a USPTO proceeding. Although, a trademark is considered prima facie valid just like a patent; both get invalidated on a regular basis in trials.
posted by indianbadger1 at 1:44 PM on July 13, 2020 [3 favorites]
Your derision aside, it is already in the court, as this is a declarative judgement lawsuit we are all commenting on right? Not a threat of one, but a real actual lawsuit.
The fact that this is a declarative judgement lawsuit filed by the Country Lady A people asking for the court to preemptively declare their trademark valid; tells you that they feel their trademark is kinda shaky to begin with. Also, if you notice; they are not calling for the Seattle Lady A to STOP using the trademark; just to stop her from suing them AND allowing her the use of the trademark. If you are confident in your Trademark; there is no way in hell you are filing this kinda suit, admitting the possibility of dilution. What is then to prevent the Seattle Lady A to use her rights (expressly given to her by the country Lady A) and resell those to another country band? Plus, according to everything I am reading; they went forum shopping on this; because there is variance on trademark dilution standards depending on which jurisdiction you are operating in.
Again, this reeks of shakiness.
All that aside, my original points still stand. If this gets to a real trial; there is a good possibility that the Lady A trademark given to the country people may get nullified, either in a circuit court or in a USPTO proceeding. Although, a trademark is considered prima facie valid just like a patent; both get invalidated on a regular basis in trials.
posted by indianbadger1 at 1:44 PM on July 13, 2020 [3 favorites]
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posted by TrialByMedia at 12:48 PM on July 9, 2020 [12 favorites]