How Nespresso got Ground Down
July 14, 2020 1:32 AM Subscribe
“What Nespresso have done is create a lot of benign bullshit around coffee ...but people enjoy the bullshit.” Ed Cumming tells the story of how Nespresso's rise and, perhaps now fall. The story of how scum became crema.
You might also be needing the original 2006 George Clooney commercial - and at least one video review James Hoffman tastes and makes a face of mild disgust.
You might also be needing the original 2006 George Clooney commercial - and at least one video review James Hoffman tastes and makes a face of mild disgust.
I genuinely didn't expect an origin story dating back to the 70s in terms of the machine development.
The recycling aspect makes me wonder a lot of things. At work (when we were at work), I'd see the Nespresso recycling bags stuffed with Nespresso and five other brands of empty capsules, but I wonder if that gets the whole bag rejected or just all the third-party ones. I was really put off by the waste and only tried a couple of capsule packs before going back to my messy old cafetiere, but it's quite ok to live in a world where decent espresso simulation has taken root in lots of other people's homes where it might have been ancient grounds or instant before.
posted by carbide at 1:53 AM on July 14, 2020 [4 favorites]
The recycling aspect makes me wonder a lot of things. At work (when we were at work), I'd see the Nespresso recycling bags stuffed with Nespresso and five other brands of empty capsules, but I wonder if that gets the whole bag rejected or just all the third-party ones. I was really put off by the waste and only tried a couple of capsule packs before going back to my messy old cafetiere, but it's quite ok to live in a world where decent espresso simulation has taken root in lots of other people's homes where it might have been ancient grounds or instant before.
posted by carbide at 1:53 AM on July 14, 2020 [4 favorites]
One solution could be reusable pods, where fresh coffee can be loaded into a Nespresso-friendly capsule, but at a significant cost to convenience
It’s an espresso portafilter. You invented an espresso portafilter.
posted by acb at 3:07 AM on July 14, 2020 [20 favorites]
It’s an espresso portafilter. You invented an espresso portafilter.
posted by acb at 3:07 AM on July 14, 2020 [20 favorites]
(This video is quite useful in terms of telling you the weight of coffee grounds, the amount of caffeine and the intended drink sizes for various Nespresso and Vertuo capsules. For example a standard Nespresso capsule has about 5 grammes of coffee in it, rendering a 40ml drink with between 40 and 130 mg of caffeine. That seems like quite successful exercise in getting something quite drinkable out of not very much coffee.)
posted by rongorongo at 3:22 AM on July 14, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by rongorongo at 3:22 AM on July 14, 2020 [2 favorites]
(via the primary link in the OP)
The Nespresso story in capsule form:
When I first encountered Nespresso, as a student, around 2006, I remember feeling like I was finally part of the global elite everyone kept complaining about. “What Nespresso have done is create a lot of benign bullshit around coffee,” said Rory Sutherland. “But people enjoy the bullshit.”
posted by fairmettle at 3:27 AM on July 14, 2020
The Nespresso story in capsule form:
When I first encountered Nespresso, as a student, around 2006, I remember feeling like I was finally part of the global elite everyone kept complaining about. “What Nespresso have done is create a lot of benign bullshit around coffee,” said Rory Sutherland. “But people enjoy the bullshit.”
posted by fairmettle at 3:27 AM on July 14, 2020
I like the form factor of the Nespresso machines, and was interested in getting one for my tiny kitchen. But the capsules are a real turnoff: expensive and not the greatest quality coffee. I looked into a reusable capsule with you can pack your own bowls (sorry). But Nestle obviously doesn't support that, and the quality of those capsules is often suspect. Some people reuse the plastic pods, fill with coffee, cover them with foil and poke holes in them with a needle...seemed like a lot of hassle, so I'm sticking with my simple drip machine for now.
posted by zardoz at 3:43 AM on July 14, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by zardoz at 3:43 AM on July 14, 2020 [1 favorite]
It's the printer toner cartridge model applied to coffee. Evil genius.
posted by GallonOfAlan at 3:59 AM on July 14, 2020 [15 favorites]
posted by GallonOfAlan at 3:59 AM on July 14, 2020 [15 favorites]
I recall wandering into the very upscale Nespresso boutique wondering how some corporate genius decided to adding sheen to disposable pod coffee was possibly a profitable idea. Pretty interesting that they were first.
Just mind boggling:
Even if Nespresso’s figure is accurate, with a conservative estimate of 14bn capsules being sold each year, and 0.9 grams of aluminium per capsule, that means 12,600 tonnes of Nespresso aluminium end up in landfill annually, enough for 60 Statues of Liberty.
posted by sammyo at 4:06 AM on July 14, 2020 [4 favorites]
Just mind boggling:
Even if Nespresso’s figure is accurate, with a conservative estimate of 14bn capsules being sold each year, and 0.9 grams of aluminium per capsule, that means 12,600 tonnes of Nespresso aluminium end up in landfill annually, enough for 60 Statues of Liberty.
posted by sammyo at 4:06 AM on July 14, 2020 [4 favorites]
After my first Nespresso store experience my only thought was: "this is how cocaine would be sold if it was legal".
posted by Kosmob0t at 4:11 AM on July 14, 2020 [20 favorites]
posted by Kosmob0t at 4:11 AM on July 14, 2020 [20 favorites]
My parents are avid members of Club Nespresso, use the bags to mail back the pods, etc.
Nespresso is marketing. Every so often they have a deal where if you buy like, 300 pods, you get a free machine. And thus, every member of my family who has gotten married in the last 10 years has received a machine from my parents (as have my sibling and I), and my parents have a cupboard with about 1,000 of the pods.
As for me, I keep the Nespresso machine because it’s pretty small and in the pre-Covid days we would schlep it to places like our kids’ birthday parties at various locations to serve coffee to the grown ups. But I can’t use single-pod machines at home, it makes me weep For the Earth and my spouse and I easily go through a pot anyway.
We have never joined Club Nespresso.
posted by warriorqueen at 4:36 AM on July 14, 2020 [6 favorites]
Nespresso is marketing. Every so often they have a deal where if you buy like, 300 pods, you get a free machine. And thus, every member of my family who has gotten married in the last 10 years has received a machine from my parents (as have my sibling and I), and my parents have a cupboard with about 1,000 of the pods.
As for me, I keep the Nespresso machine because it’s pretty small and in the pre-Covid days we would schlep it to places like our kids’ birthday parties at various locations to serve coffee to the grown ups. But I can’t use single-pod machines at home, it makes me weep For the Earth and my spouse and I easily go through a pot anyway.
We have never joined Club Nespresso.
posted by warriorqueen at 4:36 AM on July 14, 2020 [6 favorites]
Compare and contrast these coffee pod machines to washing machines, the discussion we were having there about time/labour saving devices.
posted by seanmpuckett at 4:59 AM on July 14, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by seanmpuckett at 4:59 AM on July 14, 2020 [1 favorite]
Related previously: Confessions of a Nespresso Money Mule.
posted by Lanark at 4:59 AM on July 14, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by Lanark at 4:59 AM on July 14, 2020 [4 favorites]
I hated them until I had one and got used to it. It doesn't taste like nice coffee but it's a step up from instant. I used to use two capsules to make the coffee strong enough to taste ok. Now I prefer a press.
posted by NickyP at 5:09 AM on July 14, 2020
posted by NickyP at 5:09 AM on July 14, 2020
The difference in work between making coffee in even a French press vs. a pod system is way different than modern washer vs. wringer washer. However I still hate pods and Nestle.
posted by warriorqueen at 5:14 AM on July 14, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by warriorqueen at 5:14 AM on July 14, 2020 [3 favorites]
My kid asked for one when we moved into our place and after it arrived, said "right this is for you" and I immediately ditched my french press again. When it's 6am and I've barely slept, that low growl and the smell of decent coffee is all I can cope with.
I run the big cup button then the little cup button through the same pod and it makes for a reasonably strong big cup of coffee. Using heated or foamed milk goes a long way to improving it.
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 5:55 AM on July 14, 2020 [3 favorites]
I run the big cup button then the little cup button through the same pod and it makes for a reasonably strong big cup of coffee. Using heated or foamed milk goes a long way to improving it.
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 5:55 AM on July 14, 2020 [3 favorites]
One solution could be reusable pods, where fresh coffee can be loaded into a Nespresso-friendly capsule, but at a significant cost to convenience
There are definitely bad reusable cups out there (just, inferior quality plastic that seems to leech into the coffee), but my parents have some good quality reusable cups. Filling the cup from the jar of ground coffee that lives right above their machine is super convenient (plus you can get much better coffee, and it's cheaper). You have to wash the reusable cups - or at least rinse them out with hot water - but that's a marginal extra bit of work with other daily dishes to wash. I can see where that could be less convenient in an office setting, but if you use any reusable utensils at the office, it's no different. The claim in this quote that reusable pods are significantly less convenient is still some serious hyperbole.
posted by eviemath at 6:12 AM on July 14, 2020
There are definitely bad reusable cups out there (just, inferior quality plastic that seems to leech into the coffee), but my parents have some good quality reusable cups. Filling the cup from the jar of ground coffee that lives right above their machine is super convenient (plus you can get much better coffee, and it's cheaper). You have to wash the reusable cups - or at least rinse them out with hot water - but that's a marginal extra bit of work with other daily dishes to wash. I can see where that could be less convenient in an office setting, but if you use any reusable utensils at the office, it's no different. The claim in this quote that reusable pods are significantly less convenient is still some serious hyperbole.
posted by eviemath at 6:12 AM on July 14, 2020
Could we throw those fcuking K-Cups into the fire as well whilst we are here....
posted by Webbster at 7:03 AM on July 14, 2020 [5 favorites]
posted by Webbster at 7:03 AM on July 14, 2020 [5 favorites]
I have a Dulce Gusto machine from Nestle (the parent company of Nespresso) and I can buy the cups in my local supermarket. Pretty cheap and the taste is better than instant coffee.
posted by Pendragon at 7:03 AM on July 14, 2020
posted by Pendragon at 7:03 AM on July 14, 2020
I am the problem. I'm drinking a coffee from a Keurig machine right now, and this afternoon I will have a Nespresso. It's 100% about convenience for me. I can get a single cup of hot, decent(*) coffee with no work. It costs about 50% more than making it from plain beans. And it definitely has an environmental cost which I don't pay because we are globally stupid about the economics of the environment.
I tried using refillable K-Cups for awhile. They work OK, but not quite as well as the real ones. But the real thing is I lose all the convenience. The whole point of these things is to not have to measure out coffee and deal with wet grounds.
I'm not a monster, I'm just not a big believer that my personal coffee drinking decision makes a huge difference globally. I do other things in my life that help the environment more than my coffee wastage hurts it. But this article reminded me Nespresso does have a recycling program, so I just ordered some bags (free!) so at least the aluminum isn't ending up in the landfill. They should include the recycling bags (postage paid) in with the machine, or maybe with every coffee purchase, to get folks in the habit. I note on the website that NYC will handle Nespresso pods separately in your household recycling.
(*) I'm blessed with a tin ear and a lack of coffee snobbism. Yes, I know a carefully made espresso is better than the thing this little machine spits out. No, I don't care, at least not enough to do the work.
posted by Nelson at 7:42 AM on July 14, 2020 [7 favorites]
I tried using refillable K-Cups for awhile. They work OK, but not quite as well as the real ones. But the real thing is I lose all the convenience. The whole point of these things is to not have to measure out coffee and deal with wet grounds.
I'm not a monster, I'm just not a big believer that my personal coffee drinking decision makes a huge difference globally. I do other things in my life that help the environment more than my coffee wastage hurts it. But this article reminded me Nespresso does have a recycling program, so I just ordered some bags (free!) so at least the aluminum isn't ending up in the landfill. They should include the recycling bags (postage paid) in with the machine, or maybe with every coffee purchase, to get folks in the habit. I note on the website that NYC will handle Nespresso pods separately in your household recycling.
(*) I'm blessed with a tin ear and a lack of coffee snobbism. Yes, I know a carefully made espresso is better than the thing this little machine spits out. No, I don't care, at least not enough to do the work.
posted by Nelson at 7:42 AM on July 14, 2020 [7 favorites]
I just don't get the whole "Nespresso is so expensive" argument. I'm not comparing this to a $25 Black & Decker drip coffee machine and grocery store ground coffee. I'm comparing this to fancy roasted beans and the expense of buying a decent espresso machine and a decent grinder and the time commitment to use both every morning.
The machines and the pods are in the same price range as Keurig equipment, but you get Keurig pods at Walmart and Nespresso pods in a boutique store where the staff wear ties.
Are people comparing this to drip coffee? I rarely use my Nespresso machine to make a full cup of coffee. The pods come out to something like $0.70 each (compared to $3 or so for an espresso shot in locale cafes). And my little Nespresso machine cost 1/3 what an entry-level home espresso machine would cost.
The waste issue is another argument entirely and if we move away from using our Nespresso machine, this would be why. But the cost argument - it doesn't seem to be nearly the hurdle people claim it is.
posted by thecjm at 7:54 AM on July 14, 2020 [1 favorite]
The machines and the pods are in the same price range as Keurig equipment, but you get Keurig pods at Walmart and Nespresso pods in a boutique store where the staff wear ties.
Are people comparing this to drip coffee? I rarely use my Nespresso machine to make a full cup of coffee. The pods come out to something like $0.70 each (compared to $3 or so for an espresso shot in locale cafes). And my little Nespresso machine cost 1/3 what an entry-level home espresso machine would cost.
The waste issue is another argument entirely and if we move away from using our Nespresso machine, this would be why. But the cost argument - it doesn't seem to be nearly the hurdle people claim it is.
posted by thecjm at 7:54 AM on July 14, 2020 [1 favorite]
In one of the previous Keureg posts, someone mentioned this single serve coffee maker, which I got after Little Purr was born, and it makes a good cup travel cup of coffee with enough room for some creamer (use the "bold" button). I also make iced coffee by using the same amount of grounds, the lower amount of water, and filling the mug with ice. I am not an expresso or coffee connoisseur, but I love the fact that all I have to do is dump out the grounds into my compost, and rinse the filters.
posted by Hermeowne Grangepurr at 7:57 AM on July 14, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by Hermeowne Grangepurr at 7:57 AM on July 14, 2020 [4 favorites]
It doesn't taste like nice coffee but it's a step up from instant.
But you can make nice coffee so easily. I do what lots of people think of as high-maintenance coffee (Chemex/pourover), and it's still dead easy. Grind beans (from a local roaster), boil water, pour.
Toss this high-disposability stuff into the sea. Well, I mean, not literally.
posted by uberchet at 7:59 AM on July 14, 2020 [11 favorites]
K-cups are only more convenient by comparison to traditional espresso--and so is almost any other method of making coffee, since espresso is one of the fussiest ways of doing it.
One convenient, simple as hell, disposables- and snobbery-free way to have your coffee is to cold brew: put a [week]'s worth of ground coffee into a jar with water, leave in the fridge anywhere from half a day to overnight, pour into your cup through a filter and dilute to taste/strength preference in the morning (or don't!).
If "better than instant" hot coffee is your goal, then a drip machine is exactly the same effort as a k-cup machine. Pour in water, add filter & beans, hit a button. You don't have to care about buying fancy beans, or grinding, or measuring the amount of coffee perfectly. At least filters are biodegradable.
posted by Grimp0teuthis at 8:18 AM on July 14, 2020 [7 favorites]
One convenient, simple as hell, disposables- and snobbery-free way to have your coffee is to cold brew: put a [week]'s worth of ground coffee into a jar with water, leave in the fridge anywhere from half a day to overnight, pour into your cup through a filter and dilute to taste/strength preference in the morning (or don't!).
If "better than instant" hot coffee is your goal, then a drip machine is exactly the same effort as a k-cup machine. Pour in water, add filter & beans, hit a button. You don't have to care about buying fancy beans, or grinding, or measuring the amount of coffee perfectly. At least filters are biodegradable.
posted by Grimp0teuthis at 8:18 AM on July 14, 2020 [7 favorites]
Previously it had been difficult to get a decent coffee anywhere outside Italy.
Wait, what about France? You know, the place they named the French Roast and French Press after?
Ranitzsch told me that many of the tasters are trained in France, a nation where “palate” is taken seriously as a qualification.
posted by explosion at 8:19 AM on July 14, 2020 [3 favorites]
Wait, what about France? You know, the place they named the French Roast and French Press after?
Ranitzsch told me that many of the tasters are trained in France, a nation where “palate” is taken seriously as a qualification.
posted by explosion at 8:19 AM on July 14, 2020 [3 favorites]
I am the problem. I'm drinking a coffee from a Keurig machine right now, and this afternoon I will have a Nespresso. It's 100% about convenience for me.
Same here. I have a Nespresso machine -- in the office. Of course there are better ways to make coffee for the taste and for the environment. I love using my moka at home, but it's simply not an option when the office kitchenette doesn't have a stove. I can't wait around for the kettle to boil, I can't step out to get coffee from down the street. The rest of the office only uses Keurig, and trying to get everyone back onto drip is a fight I cannot win.
I am aware of the environmental cost. I do the recycling bit, and I mitigate my environmental impact in all kinds of ways. I know I can't be perfect, and I am OK with that.
posted by Capt. Renault at 8:40 AM on July 14, 2020 [2 favorites]
Same here. I have a Nespresso machine -- in the office. Of course there are better ways to make coffee for the taste and for the environment. I love using my moka at home, but it's simply not an option when the office kitchenette doesn't have a stove. I can't wait around for the kettle to boil, I can't step out to get coffee from down the street. The rest of the office only uses Keurig, and trying to get everyone back onto drip is a fight I cannot win.
I am aware of the environmental cost. I do the recycling bit, and I mitigate my environmental impact in all kinds of ways. I know I can't be perfect, and I am OK with that.
posted by Capt. Renault at 8:40 AM on July 14, 2020 [2 favorites]
Nespresso is certainly cheaper and easier than a hand pulled shot at a coffee shop. But it has been pointed out several times already that the taste is only marginally better than instant, which is about $0.07 per cup.
posted by ananci at 9:09 AM on July 14, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by ananci at 9:09 AM on July 14, 2020 [1 favorite]
Capsule coffee makers are convenient for people with dexterity or other disability issues by greatly simplifying the interaction with hot water. Just insert capsule, press the button, and then put the lid on your favourite spill proof cup. Many models are also extremely easy to clean and have no fragile glass components, which helps lower the curbs for the users sustainably managing their machines.
Funnily enough, I was just reading about a neat new standard for sustainable coffee capsules called EZE pods that look a bit like reinforced tea bags. I'm kind of hoping it takes off, but they seem only to be sold online.
posted by Eleven at 9:10 AM on July 14, 2020 [4 favorites]
Funnily enough, I was just reading about a neat new standard for sustainable coffee capsules called EZE pods that look a bit like reinforced tea bags. I'm kind of hoping it takes off, but they seem only to be sold online.
posted by Eleven at 9:10 AM on July 14, 2020 [4 favorites]
I, too, am a Nespresso drinker (I actually have the pod I like and style down to as close to the best I've ever had from a real barista, too, for my tastes)
Not wanting to live an unexamined life, and being concerned about waste, I did some digging, and this article sums up alot of what I found:
https://www.wired.co.uk/article/coffee-pods-nespresso-recycling
TL;DR: if you look at the complete life cycle needed to get your coffee on (growing, transport, energy usage at the brewing site, etc), pods are about the best you can do. They use less water, electricity and coffee than most other ways to make a coffee. You can do a little better with drip but you have to be super conscientious about leaving the machine on and not making too much coffee.
So use Nespresso's recycling service and you're not doing too bad, according to the study in that article.
posted by codewheeney at 9:15 AM on July 14, 2020 [5 favorites]
Not wanting to live an unexamined life, and being concerned about waste, I did some digging, and this article sums up alot of what I found:
https://www.wired.co.uk/article/coffee-pods-nespresso-recycling
TL;DR: if you look at the complete life cycle needed to get your coffee on (growing, transport, energy usage at the brewing site, etc), pods are about the best you can do. They use less water, electricity and coffee than most other ways to make a coffee. You can do a little better with drip but you have to be super conscientious about leaving the machine on and not making too much coffee.
So use Nespresso's recycling service and you're not doing too bad, according to the study in that article.
posted by codewheeney at 9:15 AM on July 14, 2020 [5 favorites]
It takes us less than 10 minutes to make the best coffee I've ever had in the morning. From beans to drip coffee, using a Baratza grinder and a Technivorm drip maker.
They're spendy machines, true, but in line with a Nespresso. And decent value: both are just under a decade old at this point. I figure the great majority of our cost now is simply the price of the coffee we use. We go through about a pound and a half a week, perhaps 40 or 50 cups. Our price per (12 oz) cup is in the $0.60 CAD range.
But it's still the best coffee I've ever had, easily on par with pour over or french press or aeropress. In less than 10 minutes.
posted by bonehead at 9:15 AM on July 14, 2020
They're spendy machines, true, but in line with a Nespresso. And decent value: both are just under a decade old at this point. I figure the great majority of our cost now is simply the price of the coffee we use. We go through about a pound and a half a week, perhaps 40 or 50 cups. Our price per (12 oz) cup is in the $0.60 CAD range.
But it's still the best coffee I've ever had, easily on par with pour over or french press or aeropress. In less than 10 minutes.
posted by bonehead at 9:15 AM on July 14, 2020
Does anyone else live in an area where the only two espresso options are burnt Starbucks or lemon-sucking nth-wave hipster? In a mandatory double shot? Bleck. The fact that I can get a small Inissa machine for $100 and knockoff organic Arabica capsules for $.35 is a modern miracle. The espresso has real crema, in the roast I want, and the whole thing, including heating a demi-tasse cup in the microwave, takes less than a minute. It's like a dishwasher, yes it uses somewhat more resources but the labor savings and pleasure are tremendous.
posted by wnissen at 9:20 AM on July 14, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by wnissen at 9:20 AM on July 14, 2020 [1 favorite]
This was an interesting read. I had thought of Nespresso as a Kuerig competitor, and I didn't know the history of the brand outside the US.
If you want a good, single serving of drip coffee I'm a fan of the aeropress (previously). It's the quickest method of making a good cup of coffee that I know of. Not counting the time to boil water, I can make a cup of coffee and clean up in about 2 minutes. The only downside is that, if you do it the easy way and not the inverted way, I suspect you're not extracting as much as you could from the beans. If you do the inverted method and let the water steep for a minute, the effort is more comparable to a pourover.
posted by jomato at 9:40 AM on July 14, 2020 [5 favorites]
If you want a good, single serving of drip coffee I'm a fan of the aeropress (previously). It's the quickest method of making a good cup of coffee that I know of. Not counting the time to boil water, I can make a cup of coffee and clean up in about 2 minutes. The only downside is that, if you do it the easy way and not the inverted way, I suspect you're not extracting as much as you could from the beans. If you do the inverted method and let the water steep for a minute, the effort is more comparable to a pourover.
posted by jomato at 9:40 AM on July 14, 2020 [5 favorites]
The machines and the pods are in the same price range as Keurig equipment, but you get Keurig pods at Walmart and Nespresso pods in a boutique store where the staff wear ties.
My local Nespresso shop in Edinburgh is located in, I believe, the city’s most costly street. The staff seems to be largely made up of people who seem to be moonlighting international MBA students - they will talk you through to wonders of the multicoloured capsules in 2 or 3 languages - as per their suit badges. The company had been spending some serious cash on its retail spaces - and interesting to see the article mention they have been somewhat backing out of online in order to do so.
posted by rongorongo at 9:41 AM on July 14, 2020 [1 favorite]
My local Nespresso shop in Edinburgh is located in, I believe, the city’s most costly street. The staff seems to be largely made up of people who seem to be moonlighting international MBA students - they will talk you through to wonders of the multicoloured capsules in 2 or 3 languages - as per their suit badges. The company had been spending some serious cash on its retail spaces - and interesting to see the article mention they have been somewhat backing out of online in order to do so.
posted by rongorongo at 9:41 AM on July 14, 2020 [1 favorite]
Does anyone else live in an area where the only two espresso options are burnt Starbucks or lemon-sucking nth-wave hipster? In a mandatory double shot?
In my possibly biased experience, coffee snobs are ordering $5 cups of single origin pourover and not espresso these days. Worth it from time to time, imho.
posted by jomato at 9:47 AM on July 14, 2020 [2 favorites]
In my possibly biased experience, coffee snobs are ordering $5 cups of single origin pourover and not espresso these days. Worth it from time to time, imho.
posted by jomato at 9:47 AM on July 14, 2020 [2 favorites]
I asked about refillable pods for Nespresso machines last year; has there been any improvement? I feel like I'm seeing fewer of the ads in my online meanderings.
posted by chavenet at 9:50 AM on July 14, 2020
posted by chavenet at 9:50 AM on July 14, 2020
If you want a good, single serving of drip coffee I'm a fan of the aeropress (previously). It's the quickest method of making a good cup of coffee that I know of. Not counting the time to boil water, I can make a cup of coffee and clean up in about 2 minutes. The only downside is that, if you do it the easy way and not the inverted way, I suspect you're not extracting as much as you could from the beans. If you do the inverted method and let the water steep for a minute, the effort is more comparable to a pourover.
Seconding this. I had an aeropress and I put it away for some reason...I think because I was having an issue where pressing it down was absurdly hard and the taste didn't seem great so I swapped it for a French press. But the French press is a pain to clean and takes much longer, so while WFH I dug out the aeropress and did some googling and found the inverted method. If I start the water to boiling (electric kettle) and then setup the aeropress while it is heating, the whole process takes just a couple of minutes...and cleanup is so much easier.
posted by Preserver at 10:03 AM on July 14, 2020 [1 favorite]
Seconding this. I had an aeropress and I put it away for some reason...I think because I was having an issue where pressing it down was absurdly hard and the taste didn't seem great so I swapped it for a French press. But the French press is a pain to clean and takes much longer, so while WFH I dug out the aeropress and did some googling and found the inverted method. If I start the water to boiling (electric kettle) and then setup the aeropress while it is heating, the whole process takes just a couple of minutes...and cleanup is so much easier.
posted by Preserver at 10:03 AM on July 14, 2020 [1 favorite]
FWIW we did Aeropress for over a decade very happily but once cottoning on to the modified cold brew method* there's been no going back. Much more convenient to just heat water and dilute magic elixir. It's even portable to campsites or parties.
Get a 2L pickle jar, clean. Grind 150g of beans coarsely, put in jar. Top up the jar with 96C (204F) water. Stir to disperse bubbles/grinds. Put the lid on and let it sit for 24 hours on the counter (no need to fridge). Pour through a sieve to remove grinds, then a permanent coffee filter to remove fines. Store 1.7L of concentrate in fridge. Use 1:3 with 96C water for normal strength, or stronger if you want.
posted by seanmpuckett at 10:03 AM on July 14, 2020 [6 favorites]
Get a 2L pickle jar, clean. Grind 150g of beans coarsely, put in jar. Top up the jar with 96C (204F) water. Stir to disperse bubbles/grinds. Put the lid on and let it sit for 24 hours on the counter (no need to fridge). Pour through a sieve to remove grinds, then a permanent coffee filter to remove fines. Store 1.7L of concentrate in fridge. Use 1:3 with 96C water for normal strength, or stronger if you want.
posted by seanmpuckett at 10:03 AM on July 14, 2020 [6 favorites]
I just don't get the whole "Nespresso is so expensive" argument.
It costs a bit more than that other pod coffees, but you get what you pay for so it works out.
I'm a certified coffee asshole, and in my house I do a Chemex 5-6 times a week, and maybe one day of 250ml Nespresso. My wife has a single Nespresso espresso shot (80ml) per day, mixed with frothed milk. On weeks when I want to get real wild, I go for a Philtered Soul from a Philz.
A machine to pull real espresso shots would cost us $1k+, plus we really don't have space on the counter. For one shot a day my wife does, the Nespresso is great. I used the Nespresso because sometimes I am lazy.
The pods get shipped to our house, and the empty ones get picked up by UPS. It's great. When 6 people come over (or in the olden days when six people could come over, sniff), you can make 6 different types of coffee, and that's when it really shines.
Also, everyone saying Nespresso is just "a step above instant" is either just imaging what it tastes like since they don't like Nestle or whatever, or they are straight up lying. I literally cannot believe anyone would honestly believe that. I guess it's possible there is some lower tier that gets sold at Target or whatever, but the real pods on the real machines are decent. I'd say better then literally all but one of the dozen or so places I tried in central London last year, not that the UK is known for its coffee.
posted by sideshow at 10:14 AM on July 14, 2020 [7 favorites]
It costs a bit more than that other pod coffees, but you get what you pay for so it works out.
I'm a certified coffee asshole, and in my house I do a Chemex 5-6 times a week, and maybe one day of 250ml Nespresso. My wife has a single Nespresso espresso shot (80ml) per day, mixed with frothed milk. On weeks when I want to get real wild, I go for a Philtered Soul from a Philz.
A machine to pull real espresso shots would cost us $1k+, plus we really don't have space on the counter. For one shot a day my wife does, the Nespresso is great. I used the Nespresso because sometimes I am lazy.
The pods get shipped to our house, and the empty ones get picked up by UPS. It's great. When 6 people come over (or in the olden days when six people could come over, sniff), you can make 6 different types of coffee, and that's when it really shines.
Also, everyone saying Nespresso is just "a step above instant" is either just imaging what it tastes like since they don't like Nestle or whatever, or they are straight up lying. I literally cannot believe anyone would honestly believe that. I guess it's possible there is some lower tier that gets sold at Target or whatever, but the real pods on the real machines are decent. I'd say better then literally all but one of the dozen or so places I tried in central London last year, not that the UK is known for its coffee.
posted by sideshow at 10:14 AM on July 14, 2020 [7 favorites]
a global fellowship of people who care enough about their morning brew to spend 40 or 50p on 5 grams of it, but not enough to spend more than 30 seconds preparing it
I feel seen, though I manage with a drip-brew maker and have thus far resisted the lure of Nespresso. We'll take the "MetaFilter:" as read.
posted by Flannery Culp at 10:50 AM on July 14, 2020 [2 favorites]
I feel seen, though I manage with a drip-brew maker and have thus far resisted the lure of Nespresso. We'll take the "MetaFilter:" as read.
posted by Flannery Culp at 10:50 AM on July 14, 2020 [2 favorites]
I ended up getting a Nespresso machine for my wife for Christmas a couple of years ago and we use that thing, and the milk frother, all the time. I find that whenever we order the pods they don't send enough recycling bags with them so I've gotten into the habit of opening them up, putting the spent grounds in the compost, and then putting the rest of the pod in the recycling bag. I know a couple of people who are quite particular about their coffee that have Nespresso machines and that's why I figured if it was good enough for them then it would be more than good enough for us.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 11:30 AM on July 14, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 11:30 AM on July 14, 2020 [3 favorites]
In re the Chemex, am I right in thinking this is just a nicely designed coffee jug with some frothy attendant marketing (borosilicate glass! in the MOMA! wood collar!) in which you make coffee by pouring boiling water (from a "Chettle"!) over ("burr grinder" made) grounds in a (bonded!) filter?
That is to say, minus the woo factor, it's filter coffee the way mom used to make it?
posted by chavenet at 11:41 AM on July 14, 2020 [6 favorites]
That is to say, minus the woo factor, it's filter coffee the way mom used to make it?
posted by chavenet at 11:41 AM on July 14, 2020 [6 favorites]
K-cups are only more convenient by comparison to traditional espresso--and so is almost any other method of making coffee, since espresso is one of the fussiest ways of doing it.
I dunno. I've been making an espresso for myself every morning for over 30 years. It isn't that fussy. Grind beans directly into portafilter, tamp, push button on the espresso machine to make the espresso, chuck the puck and rinse portafilter. It is no more effort or fuss than using the drip machine (grind beans, put in filter, put in beans, fill water, run machine, dump used filter) or a french press (grind beans, add grounds, boil water, add water, push plunger, clean up sloppy mess of wet grinds at the bottom of the pot). The clean-up is certainly far less messy than a french press.
posted by fimbulvetr at 11:43 AM on July 14, 2020 [1 favorite]
I dunno. I've been making an espresso for myself every morning for over 30 years. It isn't that fussy. Grind beans directly into portafilter, tamp, push button on the espresso machine to make the espresso, chuck the puck and rinse portafilter. It is no more effort or fuss than using the drip machine (grind beans, put in filter, put in beans, fill water, run machine, dump used filter) or a french press (grind beans, add grounds, boil water, add water, push plunger, clean up sloppy mess of wet grinds at the bottom of the pot). The clean-up is certainly far less messy than a french press.
posted by fimbulvetr at 11:43 AM on July 14, 2020 [1 favorite]
There are a couple of differences between a Chemex/pour-over arrangement and most drip machines:
1. Water temp. Coffee prefers ~200-204F water, which is easily achievable with a pour-over kettle you monitor. Most Drip machines are too hot.
2. Water dispersal: Most drip machines have a single or small drip point into the extraction bed which leads to unequal extraction of the grind. A pour-over allows for wetting the entire bed and even stirring to ensure even extractions.
3. Extraction rate: Machines also frequently have too slow a drip rate, in part to counter-act the dispersal issue. The pour-over, not having these problems can allow for a quicker extraction.
That said, there are drip machines that do a much better job. Technivorm was one of the first, but there are several other (cheaper) ones on the market that do this now too.
Bonus on grinding: an unequal particle size on the grounds can quickly lead to inequal extraction, even "channeling" , the formation of essentially holes in the bed that allows water to pass through rapidly without properly extracting the coffee. Uniform grinds make for better coffee.
posted by bonehead at 12:06 PM on July 14, 2020 [2 favorites]
1. Water temp. Coffee prefers ~200-204F water, which is easily achievable with a pour-over kettle you monitor. Most Drip machines are too hot.
2. Water dispersal: Most drip machines have a single or small drip point into the extraction bed which leads to unequal extraction of the grind. A pour-over allows for wetting the entire bed and even stirring to ensure even extractions.
3. Extraction rate: Machines also frequently have too slow a drip rate, in part to counter-act the dispersal issue. The pour-over, not having these problems can allow for a quicker extraction.
That said, there are drip machines that do a much better job. Technivorm was one of the first, but there are several other (cheaper) ones on the market that do this now too.
Bonus on grinding: an unequal particle size on the grounds can quickly lead to inequal extraction, even "channeling" , the formation of essentially holes in the bed that allows water to pass through rapidly without properly extracting the coffee. Uniform grinds make for better coffee.
posted by bonehead at 12:06 PM on July 14, 2020 [2 favorites]
In re the Chemex [...] minus the woo factor, it's filter coffee the way mom used to make it?
I can't be bothered to get into a routine like Chemex at home, but I've had pourover coffee every now and then at coffee shops, and while I can't speak to what it means in coffee aficionado terms, it almost always results in a smoother drink, almost tea-like in some cases.
My wife and I use an Aeropress, exactly as described by Aeropress. We have a Zojirushi water boiler, and we grind beans every few days, so the process of making a cup takes maybe a minute, if you don't count the time spent frothing milk in the standalone milk frother.
To bring this back around to Chemex vs 'filter coffee', at some point my wife mentioned that when I made coffee, it was much more bitter than when she did it. I was letting my coffee sit for longer than the recommended 10 or so seconds, that was really the only difference. This little exchange led me to the tip of an Aeropress rabbit hole, where I kind of glanced over different things people do with coffee grinds - some people wet the coffee with a little bit of water, stir it, add more hot water, let it sit... there were comparisons to how Turkish coffee is made, regarding full immersion brewing. Ultimately I decided to just do what the instructions told me, and I did find that when I got to the bottom of the cup, after everything had cooled, the coffee tasted a lot better. Something about wetting the filter first, wetting the coffee and letting it air out, hitting it again with hot water - it's a different chemical reaction than the traditional 'filter coffee' process.
The stuff you do with a Chemex is, I assume, part of that process of balancing out flavor, acid content, and so forth. Some people love the ritual aspect of it. I just want coffee now, when I want coffee - which is why it's probably a good thing they stopped selling La Colombe Pure Black in glass bottles. That was my ideal convenient delicious coffee.
On review: What bonehead said.
posted by Leviathant at 12:12 PM on July 14, 2020
I can't be bothered to get into a routine like Chemex at home, but I've had pourover coffee every now and then at coffee shops, and while I can't speak to what it means in coffee aficionado terms, it almost always results in a smoother drink, almost tea-like in some cases.
My wife and I use an Aeropress, exactly as described by Aeropress. We have a Zojirushi water boiler, and we grind beans every few days, so the process of making a cup takes maybe a minute, if you don't count the time spent frothing milk in the standalone milk frother.
To bring this back around to Chemex vs 'filter coffee', at some point my wife mentioned that when I made coffee, it was much more bitter than when she did it. I was letting my coffee sit for longer than the recommended 10 or so seconds, that was really the only difference. This little exchange led me to the tip of an Aeropress rabbit hole, where I kind of glanced over different things people do with coffee grinds - some people wet the coffee with a little bit of water, stir it, add more hot water, let it sit... there were comparisons to how Turkish coffee is made, regarding full immersion brewing. Ultimately I decided to just do what the instructions told me, and I did find that when I got to the bottom of the cup, after everything had cooled, the coffee tasted a lot better. Something about wetting the filter first, wetting the coffee and letting it air out, hitting it again with hot water - it's a different chemical reaction than the traditional 'filter coffee' process.
The stuff you do with a Chemex is, I assume, part of that process of balancing out flavor, acid content, and so forth. Some people love the ritual aspect of it. I just want coffee now, when I want coffee - which is why it's probably a good thing they stopped selling La Colombe Pure Black in glass bottles. That was my ideal convenient delicious coffee.
On review: What bonehead said.
posted by Leviathant at 12:12 PM on July 14, 2020
For example a standard Nespresso capsule has about 5 grammes of coffee in it, rendering a 40ml drink with between 40 and 130 mg of caffeine.
Thank you for figuring that out, rongorongo.
With my ancient glass vacuum pot, I make 500ml of coffee using ~30 grams of coffee — very strong coffee because the grounds sit in the upper vessel in contact with increasingly hot water as it's pumped up over 5+ minutes, then 2-3 more minutes as I allow the water to come as close to boiling as I like, which has turned out to vary much more from coffee to coffee and with the darkness of the roast than I ever imagined it would — and generate no paper, plastic, or metal waste. Or grounds down the sink since I can scrape all the grounds into the yard waste / food scraps division of the garbage.
But the bags the coffee comes in do make for a pretty significant fraction of the waste an equivalent number of Nespresso cups would represent, it takes a full 25 minutes every morning to make, and I get all the coffee oils (which I like!) that seem to be associated with the health downsides of coffee.
The other health issue I think Nespresso obviates is the long term effects on hearing of years of exposure to the noise of electric grinders. I can't use electric grinders because they are painful and make my ears ring, and my little Zassenhaus hand grinder takes a surprising amount of strength to operate, especially with very light roasts — not that you'll be able to find any of those, these days.
posted by jamjam at 1:16 PM on July 14, 2020 [1 favorite]
Thank you for figuring that out, rongorongo.
With my ancient glass vacuum pot, I make 500ml of coffee using ~30 grams of coffee — very strong coffee because the grounds sit in the upper vessel in contact with increasingly hot water as it's pumped up over 5+ minutes, then 2-3 more minutes as I allow the water to come as close to boiling as I like, which has turned out to vary much more from coffee to coffee and with the darkness of the roast than I ever imagined it would — and generate no paper, plastic, or metal waste. Or grounds down the sink since I can scrape all the grounds into the yard waste / food scraps division of the garbage.
But the bags the coffee comes in do make for a pretty significant fraction of the waste an equivalent number of Nespresso cups would represent, it takes a full 25 minutes every morning to make, and I get all the coffee oils (which I like!) that seem to be associated with the health downsides of coffee.
The other health issue I think Nespresso obviates is the long term effects on hearing of years of exposure to the noise of electric grinders. I can't use electric grinders because they are painful and make my ears ring, and my little Zassenhaus hand grinder takes a surprising amount of strength to operate, especially with very light roasts — not that you'll be able to find any of those, these days.
posted by jamjam at 1:16 PM on July 14, 2020 [1 favorite]
Can't buy Nespresso because Nestle.
Pretty happy with my bean-to-cup Gaggia Brera. Beans in hopper, water in cartridge, press button. Empty grinds draw and drip tray every 15ish shots, bulk buy beans, and I calculate that with depreciation, electricity and coffee it costs 25p/shot for perfectly good brews.
posted by Devonian at 2:10 PM on July 14, 2020 [3 favorites]
Pretty happy with my bean-to-cup Gaggia Brera. Beans in hopper, water in cartridge, press button. Empty grinds draw and drip tray every 15ish shots, bulk buy beans, and I calculate that with depreciation, electricity and coffee it costs 25p/shot for perfectly good brews.
posted by Devonian at 2:10 PM on July 14, 2020 [3 favorites]
I've found the output of automated bean-to-cup machines to be somewhat variable. Never quite as good as a handmade espresso, and sometimes tasting like vacuum cleaner dust.
posted by acb at 2:48 PM on July 14, 2020
posted by acb at 2:48 PM on July 14, 2020
In re: the France comment above - as an American coffee snob (used to roast my own!) that lives in Europe and has been around a bit - no, France has shit coffee.
posted by thedaniel at 3:09 PM on July 14, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by thedaniel at 3:09 PM on July 14, 2020 [3 favorites]
If you want a good, single serving of drip coffee I'm a fan of the aeropressAeropress doesn't taste or feel like drip-style coffee to me at all. It's much closer to French Press.
If that's your jam, I can see the appeal, but I absolutely do not like either AP or FP coffee. I MUCH prefer a drip/pourover style.
In re the Chemex, am I right in thinking this is just a nicely designed coffee jug with some frothy attendant marketing (borosilicate glass! in the MOMA! wood collar!) [...] That is to say, minus the woo factor, it's filter coffee the way mom used to make it?Kinda, but in doing so you're also kinda missing the original appeal.
I've used one since before the frothy woo crowd found them (off and on for 20+ years). It's an attractive and inexpensive piece of borosilicate glass, and in use it's basically "manual drip."
What made it attractive to ME was that, as a drip coffee person, I was endlessly frustrated with drip MACHINES. Even nice ones eventually got funky flavors I couldn't exorcise, because they ALL have obscure water paths that you can't actually CLEAN with your hands.
A Chemex (or any other pourover rig) is a drip machine with no obscure water path.
Not for nothing, at ~$35, it's cheaper than most of the drip machines at your local Target, too.
Do I think there's anything to varying the water pour point over the grounds? Yeah, I think that helps. But mostly what I have is an excellent and very low hassle way of making reliably great coffee that I can clean properly. And if it breaks, big deal; there's a Whole Foods around the corner that stocks them.
Could you do it with a cheapie Melita filter holder? Sure. They're ugly, but I use one when I travel. It's not quite as good (no idea why), but still better than whatever drip machine is in the AirBNB or whatever (or, honestly, than whatever drip machine is at my in-law's house).
posted by uberchet at 4:45 PM on July 14, 2020 [4 favorites]
Aeropress doesn't taste or feel like drip-style coffee to me at all. It's much closer to French Press.
If that's your jam, I can see the appeal, but I absolutely do not like either AP or FP coffee. I MUCH prefer a drip/pourover style.
My preference is french press (or Aeropress, though I've never made that at home, I have only been served it). I'll drink pourover, but don't love it, especially with the "third wave" sourer styles.
But, to show I have zero coffee credibility, my go-to if I am not feeling like going through the motions with the french press is to use Nescafe Clasico.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:42 PM on July 14, 2020
If that's your jam, I can see the appeal, but I absolutely do not like either AP or FP coffee. I MUCH prefer a drip/pourover style.
My preference is french press (or Aeropress, though I've never made that at home, I have only been served it). I'll drink pourover, but don't love it, especially with the "third wave" sourer styles.
But, to show I have zero coffee credibility, my go-to if I am not feeling like going through the motions with the french press is to use Nescafe Clasico.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:42 PM on July 14, 2020
But it's still the best coffee I've ever had, easily on par with pour over or french press or aeropress. In less than 10 minutes.
I'm confused - French Press only takes 5 minutes - and that's if you're grinding the beans. Maybe 6 if you include time for the kettle to boil.
I am going camping next week and will be miles from electricity. I will still have lovely french press coffee :)
posted by jb at 8:47 PM on July 14, 2020 [3 favorites]
I'm confused - French Press only takes 5 minutes - and that's if you're grinding the beans. Maybe 6 if you include time for the kettle to boil.
I am going camping next week and will be miles from electricity. I will still have lovely french press coffee :)
posted by jb at 8:47 PM on July 14, 2020 [3 favorites]
as for the issue of cleaning a French press: just don't. Seriously, I use mine every day, sometimes twice, and all it needs is a good rinse. If you're really worried about coffee oil build up, you can clean it with soap every week or so. But I find it doesn't really need it - a good rinse with hot tap water takes it off.
posted by jb at 8:50 PM on July 14, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by jb at 8:50 PM on July 14, 2020 [1 favorite]
Wait, what about France? You know, the place they named the French Roast and French Press after?
As thedaniel remarked, France is not known for good coffee. Slate even had an explainer piece a few years ago: "Why is Coffee in France So Bad?"
posted by good in a vacuum at 9:57 PM on July 14, 2020
As thedaniel remarked, France is not known for good coffee. Slate even had an explainer piece a few years ago: "Why is Coffee in France So Bad?"
posted by good in a vacuum at 9:57 PM on July 14, 2020
It is interesting to look at coffee in France both in terms of its quality and in terms of the amount drunk. This report on the European coffee market points out that Europe drinks a third of the world's coffee - about 5kg per person. Of that total Germany takes the most with 26% market share, France with just under half of that, and Italy just behind them. When it comes to per capita consumption (as any visitor to the country will attest) Finland leads the way.
What marks France out, as the Slate article explains, is that that they drink much less of the speciality coffee than do other countries. Their market is only about 1-2% of the European total - but it is growing quite fast as a new generation of drinkers comes along. What the French say about food and drink, does carry a lot of weight internationally, however - and I wonder if their blinkered approach to coffee has had wider ramifications. I remember this story from a few years ago that revealed that Britain's' top reviewed restaurant at the time (Heston Blementhal's Fat Duck) was serving £7 cups of coffee at the end of their £300 a head meals that turned out to be Nespresso). I believe this was because they claimed that could not get anybody in the restaurant to reliably make a better brew. I hope they, and many others, have re-appraised that approach since then. However: it does highlight the point that there are many ways to make something worse than Nespresso through poor use of much more expensive equipment.
posted by rongorongo at 2:03 AM on July 15, 2020
What marks France out, as the Slate article explains, is that that they drink much less of the speciality coffee than do other countries. Their market is only about 1-2% of the European total - but it is growing quite fast as a new generation of drinkers comes along. What the French say about food and drink, does carry a lot of weight internationally, however - and I wonder if their blinkered approach to coffee has had wider ramifications. I remember this story from a few years ago that revealed that Britain's' top reviewed restaurant at the time (Heston Blementhal's Fat Duck) was serving £7 cups of coffee at the end of their £300 a head meals that turned out to be Nespresso). I believe this was because they claimed that could not get anybody in the restaurant to reliably make a better brew. I hope they, and many others, have re-appraised that approach since then. However: it does highlight the point that there are many ways to make something worse than Nespresso through poor use of much more expensive equipment.
posted by rongorongo at 2:03 AM on July 15, 2020
jb, that's time from entering the kitchen to having a cup in hand. It includes water heat time, set up and grinding the beans. The drip maker takes around 4 minutes to run.
It also includes feeding the cats, as they insist that they are the top priority in the kitchen in the morning.
posted by bonehead at 5:44 AM on July 15, 2020
It also includes feeding the cats, as they insist that they are the top priority in the kitchen in the morning.
posted by bonehead at 5:44 AM on July 15, 2020
I'm confused - French Press only takes 5 minutes - and that's if you're grinding the beans. Maybe 6 if you include time for the kettle to boil.
That seems short to me. I haven't ever timed my entire start-to-finish routine, but it's basically: fill kettle and start it heating; put coffee into the french press (right now I have a bag of pre-ground, but when I am grinding it is with a hand-grinder which adds some time); and then the ~4 minutes for it to steep. So probably ten minutes all told, including minor things like reassembling the french press pieces from the dish drainer, finding the right cup, etc.
That's not long, but it is definitely more time and effort than using a capsule coffee maker or having instant. It's more fiddly and hands-on than using a basic drip machine, too, even though they take about the same time from beginning to end.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:12 AM on July 15, 2020
That seems short to me. I haven't ever timed my entire start-to-finish routine, but it's basically: fill kettle and start it heating; put coffee into the french press (right now I have a bag of pre-ground, but when I am grinding it is with a hand-grinder which adds some time); and then the ~4 minutes for it to steep. So probably ten minutes all told, including minor things like reassembling the french press pieces from the dish drainer, finding the right cup, etc.
That's not long, but it is definitely more time and effort than using a capsule coffee maker or having instant. It's more fiddly and hands-on than using a basic drip machine, too, even though they take about the same time from beginning to end.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:12 AM on July 15, 2020
It probably takes 5 minutes, at least, for the water to boil on a stovetop kettle.
I think countertop pour-over or French Press is probably about the same time investment:
- Put on water to boil
- Grind beans
- Put grounds in device
- wait for boil
then for FP, it's "pour in water and wait" whereas for pour-over it's "pour water in a bit at a time".
Either way, though, I think 10 minutes is a fairer estimate. 5 doesn't seem plausible with a stovetop kettle. With an electric, you could probably shave off some time, but as an American with a small kitchen I neither have nor want one of those. ;)
posted by uberchet at 7:03 AM on July 15, 2020 [1 favorite]
I think countertop pour-over or French Press is probably about the same time investment:
- Put on water to boil
- Grind beans
- Put grounds in device
- wait for boil
then for FP, it's "pour in water and wait" whereas for pour-over it's "pour water in a bit at a time".
Either way, though, I think 10 minutes is a fairer estimate. 5 doesn't seem plausible with a stovetop kettle. With an electric, you could probably shave off some time, but as an American with a small kitchen I neither have nor want one of those. ;)
posted by uberchet at 7:03 AM on July 15, 2020 [1 favorite]
Only in America would someone thinking that small kitchen = no electric kettle. In Canada (and the UK as well), people get the kettle BEFORE worrying about getting a cooktop. People in residence rooms have kettles; I even had one in my high school locker.
But yes, from entering the kitchen to cup of coffee in my hand, it is about 10 minutes, or maybe 8. It takes 2-3 minutes to boil the water, which is simultaneous with the bean grinding (14 seconds - I have a blade grinder and I count), and the putting of the grinds into the press. And then I make breakfast while it steeps. It is more work than a capsule, but I was responding to someone using a machine and being amazed that it only took 10 minutes.
As for capsules: I just can't. I know they are convenient, but the waste just hits me. I'm the person who won't even use a disposable coffee cup if I can at all avoid it. I know it's a little thing, but modern western life has so much waste already, I can't countenance making more just to save a few minutes. It's one thing to have disposable medical supplies (major issue - but also big safety difference), another to have it for a cup of coffee.
But I'm also lucky: I hate espresso, even good espresso, so I have no desire to try to make it at home. The only coffee I really love and don't know how to make just uses a little copper pot (I really should teach myself how to make it).
posted by jb at 8:40 AM on July 15, 2020 [2 favorites]
But yes, from entering the kitchen to cup of coffee in my hand, it is about 10 minutes, or maybe 8. It takes 2-3 minutes to boil the water, which is simultaneous with the bean grinding (14 seconds - I have a blade grinder and I count), and the putting of the grinds into the press. And then I make breakfast while it steeps. It is more work than a capsule, but I was responding to someone using a machine and being amazed that it only took 10 minutes.
As for capsules: I just can't. I know they are convenient, but the waste just hits me. I'm the person who won't even use a disposable coffee cup if I can at all avoid it. I know it's a little thing, but modern western life has so much waste already, I can't countenance making more just to save a few minutes. It's one thing to have disposable medical supplies (major issue - but also big safety difference), another to have it for a cup of coffee.
But I'm also lucky: I hate espresso, even good espresso, so I have no desire to try to make it at home. The only coffee I really love and don't know how to make just uses a little copper pot (I really should teach myself how to make it).
posted by jb at 8:40 AM on July 15, 2020 [2 favorites]
Only in America would someone thinking that small kitchenNot feeling the shade. We already have a really lovely brass Simplex we got as a wedding present and a high-output cooktop. I don't see the need to store another appliance.
I have a blade grinderOh good lord, why bother. ;)
But you're right on the waste of capsules -- and also the TASTE. They're just awful. I have no idea why people expect decent coffee out of pre-ground beans that have spent who knows how long in the supply chain.
I actually DO like espresso, but I have yet to see any home method of espresso-making south of $1500 that produces something even close to what a decent coffeeshop can produce. And I live in a place where those are plentiful. If I drank more espresso, I might consider the investment, but it just doesn't come up for me that often. (Do not say Bialetti.)
posted by uberchet at 9:00 AM on July 15, 2020 [1 favorite]
I have a blade grinder
Oh good lord, why bother. ;)
Because my burr grinder broke. But I've never really noticed the difference between a cheap blade grinder and a cheap burr grinder, other than convenience (press and go).
Bialetti isn't the same - for one, I like the coffee from a Moka pot, unlike espresso :)
posted by jb at 9:12 AM on July 15, 2020
Oh good lord, why bother. ;)
Because my burr grinder broke. But I've never really noticed the difference between a cheap blade grinder and a cheap burr grinder, other than convenience (press and go).
Bialetti isn't the same - for one, I like the coffee from a Moka pot, unlike espresso :)
posted by jb at 9:12 AM on July 15, 2020
Seriously: if the difference between a home blade grinder and a home burr grinder matters to you. Great! Nespresso pods are not for you.
posted by Nelson at 9:20 AM on July 15, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by Nelson at 9:20 AM on July 15, 2020 [1 favorite]
I've only used a blade grinder at other people's houses, but in my experience they generate much less coffee dust than burr grinders, and therefore tend to produce better French Press coffee because you can compensate for larger particles by letting it brew a minute or so longer, and the absence of dust means the taste doesn't have as much of that overtone of licking a cardboard box.
posted by jamjam at 1:14 PM on July 15, 2020
posted by jamjam at 1:14 PM on July 15, 2020
the absence of dust means the taste doesn't have as much of that overtone of licking a cardboard box.
but that's the good part! seriously, I over-grind my beans and I love the sludge. I've also been known to drink some of the grinds in Turkish coffee.
posted by jb at 1:47 PM on July 15, 2020
but that's the good part! seriously, I over-grind my beans and I love the sludge. I've also been known to drink some of the grinds in Turkish coffee.
posted by jb at 1:47 PM on July 15, 2020
But I've never really noticed the difference between a cheap blade grinder and a cheap burr grinder, other than convenience (press and go).
A French Press is pretty insensitive to grind, as there's no extraction bed. There's some differences sure, but no where near as many ways to cause problems as when you're trying to pass water through a bed of grinds. When I used a press daily, that's what I did too. No sense spending more than you have to.
OTOH, a consistent grid is really important to the pressure methods like the aeropress and especially espresso. But if you're not doing that...
One of the main reasons I switched was ease of clean up, but we still bust out the espro for fancy occasions.
posted by bonehead at 6:44 AM on July 16, 2020
A French Press is pretty insensitive to grind, as there's no extraction bed. There's some differences sure, but no where near as many ways to cause problems as when you're trying to pass water through a bed of grinds. When I used a press daily, that's what I did too. No sense spending more than you have to.
OTOH, a consistent grid is really important to the pressure methods like the aeropress and especially espresso. But if you're not doing that...
One of the main reasons I switched was ease of clean up, but we still bust out the espro for fancy occasions.
posted by bonehead at 6:44 AM on July 16, 2020
If you want to go deeper into coffee nerdery, the vacuum siphon method is another French press-ish bedless method.
posted by bonehead at 8:02 AM on July 16, 2020
posted by bonehead at 8:02 AM on July 16, 2020
Marc Gasol of the REIGNING NBA CHAMPIONS Toronto Raptors (must say this as much as I can while I still can) has taken his own Nespresso machine (and bottled water) with him into the NBA bubble in Florida.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 12:28 PM on July 16, 2020
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 12:28 PM on July 16, 2020
Oh, I had a really lovely and super reliable Bodum siphon machine for about a year that I loved -- a bit more fire and forget than the Chemex, and it made coffee I really liked. I found it closer to drip than French Press, but really it's its own creature.
I was super fond of the Bodum -- it was electric, had its own heating element, and knew when it had boiled the water up into the coffee, so it would reduce the heat to a "keep warm" setting and hold it. Great device.
For, apparently, ME ALONE. When it failed -- base cracked, leaking coffee everywhere -- I went online to buy a replacement, and quickly discovered that it was apparently a terribly failure-prone model that broke almost immediately for everyone but me. I think there was even a recall. The upshot was that (a) my rosy experience with it was profoundly atypical and (b) nobody would sell me another one. :(
I bought a glass one to use on the stove, but it broke in like 2 months plus I was never able to dial in the right heat levels or timing (the cute little plastic one did all that for me), and so I went back to Chemex.
posted by uberchet at 1:35 PM on July 16, 2020 [1 favorite]
I was super fond of the Bodum -- it was electric, had its own heating element, and knew when it had boiled the water up into the coffee, so it would reduce the heat to a "keep warm" setting and hold it. Great device.
For, apparently, ME ALONE. When it failed -- base cracked, leaking coffee everywhere -- I went online to buy a replacement, and quickly discovered that it was apparently a terribly failure-prone model that broke almost immediately for everyone but me. I think there was even a recall. The upshot was that (a) my rosy experience with it was profoundly atypical and (b) nobody would sell me another one. :(
I bought a glass one to use on the stove, but it broke in like 2 months plus I was never able to dial in the right heat levels or timing (the cute little plastic one did all that for me), and so I went back to Chemex.
posted by uberchet at 1:35 PM on July 16, 2020 [1 favorite]
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