Ex-King Juan Carlos leaves Spain
August 6, 2020 8:55 PM Subscribe
Juan Carlos, former King of Spain, is now elsewhere. Seems like he was doing some corruption and personal enrichment behind the scenes. Now he has left Spain. This tarnishes his role in the restoration of democracy after Franco in '75 and resistance to the coup in '81. Current King Felipe VI, his son, has taken steps to distance himself from his father's financial dirt.
I was able to visit Spain for a few days last December and from various tour guides got an abbreviated version of the end of Franco's reign, the restoration of the monarchy, and the initial scandal that led to Juan Carlos stepping down (taking a secret expensive hunting trip while his country suffered from recession).
The guides seemed to have a strange combination of liking their royal family and also kind of thinking the whole thing ridiculous. You definitely got the feeling that the trauma of Franco was still fresh (which it is) and that everyone desperately wants things to stay stable and improve. Of course that's just my uninformed tourist impression.
I wonder if Felipe will be successful in staying clear of his dad's shenanigans.
posted by emjaybee at 10:21 PM on August 6, 2020 [2 favorites]
The guides seemed to have a strange combination of liking their royal family and also kind of thinking the whole thing ridiculous. You definitely got the feeling that the trauma of Franco was still fresh (which it is) and that everyone desperately wants things to stay stable and improve. Of course that's just my uninformed tourist impression.
I wonder if Felipe will be successful in staying clear of his dad's shenanigans.
posted by emjaybee at 10:21 PM on August 6, 2020 [2 favorites]
Wow! This is just heartbreaking for Spaniards. I dare to hope more Americans will learn about Franco from this...
posted by EinAtlanta at 10:51 PM on August 6, 2020
posted by EinAtlanta at 10:51 PM on August 6, 2020
The best headline here has been "Following family tradition, Juan Carlos I announces that he abandons Spain."
Felipe VI has distinguished himself for saying the wrong things in the wrong moment, most egregiously when he went hardline at the time of the Catalan referendum, so personally I have very little hopes on the dynasty.
posted by sukeban at 10:52 PM on August 6, 2020 [11 favorites]
Felipe VI has distinguished himself for saying the wrong things in the wrong moment, most egregiously when he went hardline at the time of the Catalan referendum, so personally I have very little hopes on the dynasty.
posted by sukeban at 10:52 PM on August 6, 2020 [11 favorites]
> The guides seemed to have a strange combination of liking their royal family and also kind of thinking the whole thing ridiculous. You definitely got the feeling that the trauma of Franco was still fresh (which it is) and that everyone desperately wants things to stay stable and improve. Of course that's just my uninformed tourist impression.
You definitely picked up on something there, but I dont' think it's exactly right. There is no sense of urgency anymore, no "fresh trauma", no "desperation for stability" (not sure what you mean by "improve"). That was 40 years ago. What Spanish society has come to realize in the last few years is that the so called "transition" was a fraud. It turns out it was more of a "continuity" of the francoist oligarchy. We were aware that there were remnants of francoist elites in the royal house, the army, some political parties, some very big companies, or even the supreme court. But we didn't realize how connected they were. The office of the King served as a beacon for these elites, to serve their own interests.
King (he's no ex-king, but king emeritus) Juan Carlos' final service to the homeland has been to open the eyes of the country with his constant abuse of royal privilege (namely, inviolability of his office).
posted by valdesm at 1:03 AM on August 7, 2020 [31 favorites]
Maybe Harry and Meghan have a spare couch he can crash on
posted by Apocryphon at 1:12 AM on August 7, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by Apocryphon at 1:12 AM on August 7, 2020 [4 favorites]
As per the conservative newspaper ABC, Juan Carlos flew from Vigo (where he had dinner with sailing friends) to Abu Dhabi, and he's been in a luxury hotel courtesy of his friend Mohammed bin Zayed Al Nahyan, heir to the Emirates throne. ABC (and other newspapers) speculate that when hurricane season ends, he'll end up in Dominican Republic, in a resort property of another of his friends, the sugar tycoon Pepe Fanjul.
It's this sort of luxury favor-trading between hereditary elites while the rest of the country has had to "tighten their belts" and was told that they "had been living above their means" for the past 10+ years that is going to end the monarchy in Spain.
posted by sukeban at 2:49 AM on August 7, 2020 [15 favorites]
It's this sort of luxury favor-trading between hereditary elites while the rest of the country has had to "tighten their belts" and was told that they "had been living above their means" for the past 10+ years that is going to end the monarchy in Spain.
posted by sukeban at 2:49 AM on August 7, 2020 [15 favorites]
What Spanish society has come to realize in the last few years is that the so called "transition" was a fraud. It turns out it was more of a "continuity" of the francoist oligarchy. We were aware that there were remnants of francoist elites in the royal house, the army, some political parties, some very big companies, or even the supreme court. But we didn't realize how connected they were. The office of the King served as a beacon for these elites, to serve their own interests.
This is a perfect description of the situation. When I moved to Barcelona in 2002, I thought I was moving to a modern European democracy that had managed to leave its dictatorial past behind. It took me many many years of living in Spain to understand how much wishful thinking was involved, and how Spain had managed the transition by sweeping all the problems under the rug.
Juan Carlos justified his legitimacy based on his role in stopping the failed 1981 coup d'état. Because he defended democracy at a time when it was fragile, you could often hear people say, "I am not a monarchist, but I am a juancarlista." But now that Juan Carlos has been so thoroughly discredited, the nominally socialist Prime Minister Pedro Sánchez, who had previously declared himself a republican, is now defending the monarchy as an institution "above and beyond the figure of Juan Carlos".
The public mood about the monarchy may be changing, but I find it hard to be optimistic when the entire power structure in Madrid is ready to line up to support Felipe and maintain the system.
posted by fuzz at 4:01 AM on August 7, 2020 [9 favorites]
This is a perfect description of the situation. When I moved to Barcelona in 2002, I thought I was moving to a modern European democracy that had managed to leave its dictatorial past behind. It took me many many years of living in Spain to understand how much wishful thinking was involved, and how Spain had managed the transition by sweeping all the problems under the rug.
Juan Carlos justified his legitimacy based on his role in stopping the failed 1981 coup d'état. Because he defended democracy at a time when it was fragile, you could often hear people say, "I am not a monarchist, but I am a juancarlista." But now that Juan Carlos has been so thoroughly discredited, the nominally socialist Prime Minister Pedro Sánchez, who had previously declared himself a republican, is now defending the monarchy as an institution "above and beyond the figure of Juan Carlos".
The public mood about the monarchy may be changing, but I find it hard to be optimistic when the entire power structure in Madrid is ready to line up to support Felipe and maintain the system.
posted by fuzz at 4:01 AM on August 7, 2020 [9 favorites]
Mod note: Couple comments deleted. Please don't make this about the US or about that one song; please just let the thread be about Juan Carlos, the situation in Spain, etc. Thanks.
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 6:50 AM on August 7, 2020 [8 favorites]
posted by LobsterMitten (staff) at 6:50 AM on August 7, 2020 [8 favorites]
It seems that the Reign of Spain is mainly on the Plane. (stolen)
posted by adamvasco at 8:03 AM on August 7, 2020 [8 favorites]
posted by adamvasco at 8:03 AM on August 7, 2020 [8 favorites]
Giles Tremlett has been reporting for the Guardian on Spain for as long as I can remember
... ''More worrying than the alleged individual sins of a monarch, which are yet unproven in court, are the lengths to which parts of the Spanish establishment have gone to protect him. It is possible that some of his most ardent friends and advisers were attracted to the king’s opaque financial arrangements. Others appear to think that to protect an individual king is to protect the monarchy – which is the exact opposite of what has happened.''
I have met both Juan Carlos and his late father. I am not very impressed with monarcy but I do enjoy a knowledgeable conversation about shared marime interests, and they both obliged.
posted by adamvasco at 9:23 AM on August 7, 2020 [1 favorite]
... ''More worrying than the alleged individual sins of a monarch, which are yet unproven in court, are the lengths to which parts of the Spanish establishment have gone to protect him. It is possible that some of his most ardent friends and advisers were attracted to the king’s opaque financial arrangements. Others appear to think that to protect an individual king is to protect the monarchy – which is the exact opposite of what has happened.''
I have met both Juan Carlos and his late father. I am not very impressed with monarcy but I do enjoy a knowledgeable conversation about shared marime interests, and they both obliged.
posted by adamvasco at 9:23 AM on August 7, 2020 [1 favorite]
Interesting to read comments from people who have visited and lived in Spain, thank you.
I am almost completely ignorant of modern Spanish political history, and had assumed like some others that the end of the Franco regime led to a modern democratic nation. A small dose of the complicated history, post-Franco, is offered in a Netflix documentary: "The Silence of Others." To whatever extent it's an accurate portrayal, this documentary definitely aligns to comments in this thread. I was struck by the degree to which pro-Franco sentiment seems to remain deeply embedded in Spain's political culture.
posted by elkevelvet at 9:40 AM on August 7, 2020 [7 favorites]
I am almost completely ignorant of modern Spanish political history, and had assumed like some others that the end of the Franco regime led to a modern democratic nation. A small dose of the complicated history, post-Franco, is offered in a Netflix documentary: "The Silence of Others." To whatever extent it's an accurate portrayal, this documentary definitely aligns to comments in this thread. I was struck by the degree to which pro-Franco sentiment seems to remain deeply embedded in Spain's political culture.
posted by elkevelvet at 9:40 AM on August 7, 2020 [7 favorites]
sukeban: luxury favor-trading between hereditary elites while the rest of the country has had to "tighten their belts" and was told that they "had been living above their means"
reminds me of Irish Taoiseach Charlie Haughey telling the country in Jan 1980 how "As a community we are living away beyond our means" before introducing swingeing tax increases and service cuts. A recession decade later it was coming out that Haughey, while advocating/mandating austerity for the rest of us, had been stuffing his pockets with dubious cash and living high on the hob. In 1991, after another scandal, I was explaining the murky background [the horses, the yacht, the mansion, the island, using the government jet to fly clean Charvet shirts in from Paris etc.] to a Spaniard who was on sabbatical in Dublin. Pepe waved his hand dismissively "My friend, you call that corruption?" drawing his hidalgo self up to his full 1m60, " you should come to Spain, there we have corruption!"
posted by BobTheScientist at 11:44 AM on August 7, 2020 [5 favorites]
reminds me of Irish Taoiseach Charlie Haughey telling the country in Jan 1980 how "As a community we are living away beyond our means" before introducing swingeing tax increases and service cuts. A recession decade later it was coming out that Haughey, while advocating/mandating austerity for the rest of us, had been stuffing his pockets with dubious cash and living high on the hob. In 1991, after another scandal, I was explaining the murky background [the horses, the yacht, the mansion, the island, using the government jet to fly clean Charvet shirts in from Paris etc.] to a Spaniard who was on sabbatical in Dublin. Pepe waved his hand dismissively "My friend, you call that corruption?" drawing his hidalgo self up to his full 1m60, " you should come to Spain, there we have corruption!"
posted by BobTheScientist at 11:44 AM on August 7, 2020 [5 favorites]
Oh, that was a direct quote of former economy minister for the conservative Partido Popular, Fátima Báñez, in 2012. That was during the post-2008 financial crisis/ housing market bubble burst when there were widespread protests against cuts in healthcare and education and austerity politics, unemployment was at record rates (until this year with covid) and a good percentage of the population had more and more economical difficulties.
It turned out that the Partido Popular was so corrupt it was ousted from government in 2018.
posted by sukeban at 12:11 PM on August 7, 2020
It turned out that the Partido Popular was so corrupt it was ousted from government in 2018.
posted by sukeban at 12:11 PM on August 7, 2020
It turns out it was more of a "continuity" of the francoist oligarchy.
It's interesting to think about transitions all over the world. For example, in Germany after the Nazis, where did all the Nazis go? They didn't just have a change of heart, or just disappear. Many of them stayed in power. Others went and founded or joined fascist movements in Chile, Argentina, Spain and elsewhere.
We are taught that history has distinct periods. In Spain we had the Fascist period, and the democratic period, but the reality is that they are not so distinct. Many of the same people, and their literal or intellectual offspring, are involved in events spanning multiple eras. The same oligarchs and families have been able to hang on to true power regardless of what social movments or governments are in power.
posted by chaz at 12:52 PM on August 7, 2020 [6 favorites]
It's interesting to think about transitions all over the world. For example, in Germany after the Nazis, where did all the Nazis go? They didn't just have a change of heart, or just disappear. Many of them stayed in power. Others went and founded or joined fascist movements in Chile, Argentina, Spain and elsewhere.
We are taught that history has distinct periods. In Spain we had the Fascist period, and the democratic period, but the reality is that they are not so distinct. Many of the same people, and their literal or intellectual offspring, are involved in events spanning multiple eras. The same oligarchs and families have been able to hang on to true power regardless of what social movments or governments are in power.
posted by chaz at 12:52 PM on August 7, 2020 [6 favorites]
How did we get to a stage where fraud and abusing the public's trust isn't even a blip anymore. We just continually normalize more and more deviance. People who hold positions of public trust and abuse them should be dealt with in the most harsh ways.
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 3:11 PM on August 7, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by Your Childhood Pet Rock at 3:11 PM on August 7, 2020 [1 favorite]
In 1956, Juan Carlos accidentally killed his brother Afonso while in exile in Portugal.
posted by chavenet at 3:17 PM on August 7, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by chavenet at 3:17 PM on August 7, 2020 [3 favorites]
another one bits the dust, hey, hey.
Historical Memory Law
Pact of Forgetting
posted by clavdivs at 3:25 PM on August 7, 2020
Historical Memory Law
Pact of Forgetting
posted by clavdivs at 3:25 PM on August 7, 2020
Your Childhood Pet Rock: How did we get to a stage where fraud and abusing the public's trust isn't even a blip anymore. We just continually normalize more and more deviance. People who hold positions of public trust and abuse them should be dealt with in the most harsh ways.
In some ways the Progressive era, in which fraud and abuse by public officials is considered abnormal, has been an anomaly. For most people in most centuries, the point of taking on the burdens of public service was the opportunity for self-dealing and getting rich. I'm reading a Canadian history right now and this keeps coming up, right up until the late 1800s/early 1900s. Keeping self-enrichment in public office abnormal will always be a continuous fight.
posted by clawsoon at 3:41 PM on August 7, 2020 [5 favorites]
In some ways the Progressive era, in which fraud and abuse by public officials is considered abnormal, has been an anomaly. For most people in most centuries, the point of taking on the burdens of public service was the opportunity for self-dealing and getting rich. I'm reading a Canadian history right now and this keeps coming up, right up until the late 1800s/early 1900s. Keeping self-enrichment in public office abnormal will always be a continuous fight.
posted by clawsoon at 3:41 PM on August 7, 2020 [5 favorites]
My first memory of a world event is Franco's death. I was 7 and my dad was stationed at Torreón AFB near Madrid. There was a Spanish soldier with an automatic weapon on every corner. (We lived off base).
posted by COD at 4:10 PM on August 7, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by COD at 4:10 PM on August 7, 2020 [2 favorites]
the initial scandal that led to Juan Carlos stepping down (taking a secret expensive hunting trip while his country suffered from recession).
It’s even worse than that - it was a safari/big game hunt, and at the time, Juan Carlos held a post on the World Wildlife Federation board!
I was living in Spain during this scandal (2011-2012) and it was a bad year for Juan Carlos all around. He accidentally shot his 7 year old grandson in the foot on a different hunting trip, and then his son-in-law was under investigation for embezzlement. I was surprised at how long it took him to abdicate (5 or so years later).
posted by chainsofreedom at 8:48 AM on August 8, 2020 [1 favorite]
It’s even worse than that - it was a safari/big game hunt, and at the time, Juan Carlos held a post on the World Wildlife Federation board!
I was living in Spain during this scandal (2011-2012) and it was a bad year for Juan Carlos all around. He accidentally shot his 7 year old grandson in the foot on a different hunting trip, and then his son-in-law was under investigation for embezzlement. I was surprised at how long it took him to abdicate (5 or so years later).
posted by chainsofreedom at 8:48 AM on August 8, 2020 [1 favorite]
That “accidental death” smells suspicious as fuck from here. Franco gave him the gun? They were both at military school where you practice shooting but they had no idea the gun was loaded?
posted by corb at 8:49 AM on August 8, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by corb at 8:49 AM on August 8, 2020 [3 favorites]
How odd. Some people claim King Bhumibol Adulyadej of Thailand accidentally shot his brother dead too.
posted by Buck Alec at 7:55 AM on August 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by Buck Alec at 7:55 AM on August 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
In the 1950s, the U.S. normalized relations with Spain and Franco, and Spain joined NATO. My parents were among the Americans who then lived/worked in Spain in the 1950's as part of that initiative (my father was U.S. Civil Service.) Per my father (a political liberal who spent his career working for the U.S. government/military ... I never did really figure him out... sigh) it was pretty clear that this was political, due to the Cold War, rather than an endorsement of some kind of fundamental change in the regime, and that Francoism etc. was just conveniently papered over for political purposes.
As fuzz says "Spain had managed the transition by sweeping all the problems under the rug." In the 1950's, the Spanish Civil War was not that far in the past, and Spanish friends of my parents, once they trusted them, told them many stories of just what a terrible time that was. elkevelvet above mentions "The Silence of Others" and everyone should see that documentary.
To be clear, I do not in any way want to make this about the U.S., but I do think that the way we in the U.S. are taking statues down, and renaming things currently named for Confederates, and working on dealing with the legacy of slavery and our Civil War, does have certain parallels to what Spain will need to do to deal with their legacy of Franco and the Fascists.
Juan Carlos exposed and gone is a good. I like Spain, and I hope they will be able to do the hard work, finally, to deal with some of this. They did move Franco. I was in Spain a few years ago, and saw the Valley of the Fallen and Franco's grave there as it was, and covered with flowers. It was sickening, and I surreptitiously stepped on the grave as my own personal gesture of contempt. My parents loved Spain, and my actual first name is Spanish (I was almost born there but my father got a different job so they moved right before I was born).
sukeban said: "It's this sort of luxury favor-trading between hereditary elites while the rest of the country has had to "tighten their belts" and was told that they "had been living above their means" for the past 10+ years that is going to end the monarchy in Spain." I'm hoping, I'm pulling for you, Spain.
posted by gudrun at 8:12 AM on August 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
As fuzz says "Spain had managed the transition by sweeping all the problems under the rug." In the 1950's, the Spanish Civil War was not that far in the past, and Spanish friends of my parents, once they trusted them, told them many stories of just what a terrible time that was. elkevelvet above mentions "The Silence of Others" and everyone should see that documentary.
To be clear, I do not in any way want to make this about the U.S., but I do think that the way we in the U.S. are taking statues down, and renaming things currently named for Confederates, and working on dealing with the legacy of slavery and our Civil War, does have certain parallels to what Spain will need to do to deal with their legacy of Franco and the Fascists.
Juan Carlos exposed and gone is a good. I like Spain, and I hope they will be able to do the hard work, finally, to deal with some of this. They did move Franco. I was in Spain a few years ago, and saw the Valley of the Fallen and Franco's grave there as it was, and covered with flowers. It was sickening, and I surreptitiously stepped on the grave as my own personal gesture of contempt. My parents loved Spain, and my actual first name is Spanish (I was almost born there but my father got a different job so they moved right before I was born).
sukeban said: "It's this sort of luxury favor-trading between hereditary elites while the rest of the country has had to "tighten their belts" and was told that they "had been living above their means" for the past 10+ years that is going to end the monarchy in Spain." I'm hoping, I'm pulling for you, Spain.
posted by gudrun at 8:12 AM on August 9, 2020 [1 favorite]
Maybe he had to leave because he ran out of woman to cheat on his wife with.
posted by PenDevil at 1:14 PM on August 9, 2020
posted by PenDevil at 1:14 PM on August 9, 2020
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