Lard, a love story
September 6, 2020 3:28 AM Subscribe
From NPR in 2012 (text only version): "There are some cultures that have never quite given up on lard. Mexican tamales usually require it, and then there's Ukrainian salo, the Eastern European equivalent of lardo. But to many Americans it's a bit of a retro novelty — if they've even heard of it." Lard is rendered pork fat, which has been strained for a smooth, white fat. Is lard healthy for you? While lard has less saturated fat than butter, it still has significantly more than olive oil, which is widely considered the most healthful fat for a variety of reasons. But olive oil is not a universal fat. As Prevention notes, a variety of baked goods need lard for the proper texture and common lard substitutes, such as vegetable shortening, are associated with higher health risks than the saturated fat they were designed to replace. What, then, is a lover of lard to do?
Many of them buy their lard. The two main types are fresh lard and shelf-stable lard. Fresh lard is usually just the rendered pork fat, while shelf-stable lard usually contains some amount of hydrogenated fat to preserve freshness. The fresh, refrigerated lard is the healthiest option, according to Prevention. Some prefer to make their own lard and claim it is as healthful as olive oil. That claim does not appear to be documented. Here’s what Krista Linares, a common-sense registered dietitian, wrote in Prevention: "There’s no single ingredient that will make or break your health." Who wants pie? Or tamales? Or salo?
Many of them buy their lard. The two main types are fresh lard and shelf-stable lard. Fresh lard is usually just the rendered pork fat, while shelf-stable lard usually contains some amount of hydrogenated fat to preserve freshness. The fresh, refrigerated lard is the healthiest option, according to Prevention. Some prefer to make their own lard and claim it is as healthful as olive oil. That claim does not appear to be documented. Here’s what Krista Linares, a common-sense registered dietitian, wrote in Prevention: "There’s no single ingredient that will make or break your health." Who wants pie? Or tamales? Or salo?
Okinawa is known for shortbread cookies called chinsuko that are made with lard
I assure you that the lard is worth it
posted by DoctorFedora at 4:29 AM on September 6, 2020 [5 favorites]
I assure you that the lard is worth it
posted by DoctorFedora at 4:29 AM on September 6, 2020 [5 favorites]
My wife uses local lard for the lotions she makes.
... and to complete the meta circle ...
posted by terrapin at 4:55 AM on September 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
... and to complete the meta circle ...
posted by terrapin at 4:55 AM on September 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
I recently bought and used lard for the first time to make some tortillas. When I've made them in the past I always used olive or veg oil but wanted to try lard due to the insistence of Robert Rodriguez.
I was not able to really tell a difference, unfortunately. I do need more lard recipes to use these two remaining sticks of lard, so I might look up Japanese shortbread which sounds fantastic. Thank you DoctorFedora!
posted by dozo at 4:57 AM on September 6, 2020
I was not able to really tell a difference, unfortunately. I do need more lard recipes to use these two remaining sticks of lard, so I might look up Japanese shortbread which sounds fantastic. Thank you DoctorFedora!
posted by dozo at 4:57 AM on September 6, 2020
Refried beans made with lard are by far the best version. There's a silkiness to the texture and a depth to the flavor that is not found using any other fat.
We keep lard in our house for cooking and baking. We don't use it a lot, but it's a required part of our pantry.
posted by hippybear at 4:57 AM on September 6, 2020 [8 favorites]
We keep lard in our house for cooking and baking. We don't use it a lot, but it's a required part of our pantry.
posted by hippybear at 4:57 AM on September 6, 2020 [8 favorites]
I did not grow up with lard, I grew up with bacon fat collected in a can and used for whatever. I am guessing that maybe leftover bacon fat is considered a cousin of lard. All I know is that crispy iceberg lettuce coated with warm bacon bits and a dressing of bacon fat and Japanese seasoned rice vinegar is delicious and I wish I had some.
posted by Bella Donna at 5:18 AM on September 6, 2020 [11 favorites]
posted by Bella Donna at 5:18 AM on September 6, 2020 [11 favorites]
I purchased a Mangalica pig earlier in the pandemic and had the locker save the lard for me. This is a traditional Hungarian breed that was bred for the lard and it is incredible stuff. We got over 40 lbs of the most amazing lard from it. There is a definite difference in quality And flavor when making pie crusts.
posted by Big Al 8000 at 5:19 AM on September 6, 2020 [7 favorites]
posted by Big Al 8000 at 5:19 AM on September 6, 2020 [7 favorites]
As things swing towards fall and winter I start getting very hobbity, and make a good deal of homey old-fashiond-y things to eat, like meat pies. I basically cook like it's 30 years ago and I live in a little cabin in the woods somewhere.
I think attempting to render my own lard may be a thing to try this year.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:23 AM on September 6, 2020 [3 favorites]
I think attempting to render my own lard may be a thing to try this year.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:23 AM on September 6, 2020 [3 favorites]
Lard gives me acne like no other but my God, what a difference it makes in tortillas and beans. I've reached a point though where I can *tell* right away if there's lard in a dish and then my brain goes MAYDAY ABORT ABORT and I feel like I gotta barf. Sometimes my body participates properly in skin quality preservation. Other times it notices that there's shortening in pastries and just glosses over it in favor of delicious flaky goodness.
Now I want American biscuits. :(
posted by Kitchen Witch at 5:29 AM on September 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
Now I want American biscuits. :(
posted by Kitchen Witch at 5:29 AM on September 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
Lard is very easy to render if you have an Instant Pot. Just put it on the slow cook - high setting for 5-6 hours. I recommend doing it outside, however, as the porky/fatty smell can be a bit much.
posted by Big Al 8000 at 5:33 AM on September 6, 2020
posted by Big Al 8000 at 5:33 AM on September 6, 2020
I'm pro-lard, though I don't see myself cooking with it regularly any time in the future. Lard helps make pastry fluff up, from what I know. If we're gonna eat pigs, we might as well use the fat in a good way.
Also: I really wish savory pastries and pies would become a bigger thing here in the USA. I had a few savory pasties and pies when I was in old York. There's one place in Chicago (Pleasant House) that makes extremely good savory UK-style pies and I love, love, love them.
posted by SoberHighland at 5:41 AM on September 6, 2020 [3 favorites]
Also: I really wish savory pastries and pies would become a bigger thing here in the USA. I had a few savory pasties and pies when I was in old York. There's one place in Chicago (Pleasant House) that makes extremely good savory UK-style pies and I love, love, love them.
posted by SoberHighland at 5:41 AM on September 6, 2020 [3 favorites]
Soverhighland, take a trip through Michigan and have the local pasties. Similar to — but not quite the same as — Cornish pasties (from which they’re derived) but still quite good.
posted by Big Al 8000 at 5:44 AM on September 6, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by Big Al 8000 at 5:44 AM on September 6, 2020 [3 favorites]
For all the vegetarians out there, I can see why it's a good thing that lard isn't as ubiquitous as it was in the past. For one thing, lard makes eating seemingly vegetarian mexican food a rather tricky proposal. I understand how good it is in certain foods, but if there's slight dip in quality to ensure that whatever you're eating isn't coming from the suffering and profiteering of animal consciousness, I personally take that dip any time I can.
posted by Philipschall at 5:49 AM on September 6, 2020 [11 favorites]
posted by Philipschall at 5:49 AM on September 6, 2020 [11 favorites]
Having accurate labeling on restaurant menus and packaging is only for the good -- some people aren't going to want lard because they are vegetarian, others don't eat pork for religious reasons, and so on. The days when lard was totally ubiquitous would have been much less pleasant for many people.
Mostly we make our own refried beans (albeit usually with bacon grease, not lard) but when I buy the kind that comes in cans I always buy the "traditional" (i.e., made with lard) variety; it really does taste better.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:18 AM on September 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
Mostly we make our own refried beans (albeit usually with bacon grease, not lard) but when I buy the kind that comes in cans I always buy the "traditional" (i.e., made with lard) variety; it really does taste better.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:18 AM on September 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
I'm a US citizen with one set of great-great grandparents who emigrated from Cornwall. Pasties have been passed down in our family, but by the time they got to me, they were made with standard pie crust and carrots. I did some reading and replaced the carrots with rutabaga (swede). A few years ago we took a family trip to Cornwall (and got to see the house where my great-great grandparents met!), and all the pasties we ate were made with rough puff pastry. More decadent, more work , but SO GOOD.
Fresh lard makes a good pie crust, but stabilized lard is not the same by any means. In the absence of fresh lard, frozen shredded browned butter is my fat of choice. Bacon grease (which I save in a tin on the stove because of a different set of grandparents) is great for pan-frying, or adding flavor, but it's much porkier than lard and has a much lower melting point, so don't try to use them interchangably.
posted by rikschell at 6:19 AM on September 6, 2020 [2 favorites]
Fresh lard makes a good pie crust, but stabilized lard is not the same by any means. In the absence of fresh lard, frozen shredded browned butter is my fat of choice. Bacon grease (which I save in a tin on the stove because of a different set of grandparents) is great for pan-frying, or adding flavor, but it's much porkier than lard and has a much lower melting point, so don't try to use them interchangably.
posted by rikschell at 6:19 AM on September 6, 2020 [2 favorites]
Refried beans made with lard are by far the best version.
This, x∞.
That said, it’s pretty hard to find any Mexican restaurant in my neck of the woods that actually uses lard in their beans.
posted by Thorzdad at 6:28 AM on September 6, 2020
This, x∞.
That said, it’s pretty hard to find any Mexican restaurant in my neck of the woods that actually uses lard in their beans.
posted by Thorzdad at 6:28 AM on September 6, 2020
Okay, this is the thread where I finally grapple with the many many pounds of pork fat in my freezer. I am thoroughly confused as to whether this fat is worth turning into lard, because I thought for lard we were after only kidney fat? This fat is in long strips and is fatty fat, not that dry nubbly kind of fat. I don't want to spend a lot of effort for a product that is just basically unsmoked bacon grease but if I can make nice lard for pastry from it then I'm in. Please advise!
posted by HotToddy at 6:29 AM on September 6, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by HotToddy at 6:29 AM on September 6, 2020 [4 favorites]
I’m vegetarian, and live in Mexico, which means that I can’t eat a lot of stuff here. Over the years I’ve noticed that many more foods are becoming accessible to me since people are slowly switching to oil instead of lard; mostly because it’s cheaper (I think ).
posted by dhruva at 6:39 AM on September 6, 2020
posted by dhruva at 6:39 AM on September 6, 2020
all the pasties we ate were made with rough puff pastry
Are you sure they all were? Were you buying them from a particular pasty shop? I'm from Cornwall (and hence have, almost inevitably, worked in a pasty shop, although I refuse to confirm the rumours that this is a conscripted form of national service in Cornwall) and anything but some form of shortcrust is unusual. The pastry requirements of a Cornish pasty are nowhere near as stringent as those for the filling (woe betide anyone putting a carrot in a pasty in Cornwall, especially if my vehemently Cornish quondam maths teacher finds out), but the fundamental principle (in view of the pasty's historical role as portable lunch for manual workers) is that it should be sufficiently robust to retain its integrity when carried in your pocket, which isn't the strong point of flaky or rough puff pastry. While alternative pastry isn't unheard of, I'm surprised that you didn't mainly come across shortcrust.
posted by howfar at 6:51 AM on September 6, 2020 [2 favorites]
Are you sure they all were? Were you buying them from a particular pasty shop? I'm from Cornwall (and hence have, almost inevitably, worked in a pasty shop, although I refuse to confirm the rumours that this is a conscripted form of national service in Cornwall) and anything but some form of shortcrust is unusual. The pastry requirements of a Cornish pasty are nowhere near as stringent as those for the filling (woe betide anyone putting a carrot in a pasty in Cornwall, especially if my vehemently Cornish quondam maths teacher finds out), but the fundamental principle (in view of the pasty's historical role as portable lunch for manual workers) is that it should be sufficiently robust to retain its integrity when carried in your pocket, which isn't the strong point of flaky or rough puff pastry. While alternative pastry isn't unheard of, I'm surprised that you didn't mainly come across shortcrust.
posted by howfar at 6:51 AM on September 6, 2020 [2 favorites]
This fat is in long strips and is fatty fat, not that dry nubbly kind of fat. I don't want to spend a lot of effort for a product that is just basically unsmoked bacon grease but if I can make nice lard for pastry from it then I'm in. Please advise!
It sounds like what you have is fatback, which according to this LardMaking 101 post can indeed yield lard - although that lard may have a bit of a porky note to it, so it may not be good for making a crust for a peach pie, say. But - it would be good for a sauteing or frying fat, and I'd totally see myself using it for a meat pie (I have my great-aunt's tourtiere recipe and I am 100% going to use that to test out any lard I might make).
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:07 AM on September 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
It sounds like what you have is fatback, which according to this LardMaking 101 post can indeed yield lard - although that lard may have a bit of a porky note to it, so it may not be good for making a crust for a peach pie, say. But - it would be good for a sauteing or frying fat, and I'd totally see myself using it for a meat pie (I have my great-aunt's tourtiere recipe and I am 100% going to use that to test out any lard I might make).
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:07 AM on September 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
(Or maybe I will try this recipe from Quebec which calls for five kinds of meat and sounds ABSOLUTELY GOD-DAMN AMAZING)
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:10 AM on September 6, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:10 AM on September 6, 2020 [3 favorites]
A different kind of lard love story: Krisco Kisses by Frankie Goes to Hollywood [maybe NSFWish lyrics]
posted by chavenet at 7:13 AM on September 6, 2020
posted by chavenet at 7:13 AM on September 6, 2020
Metafilter: olive oil is not a universal fat
Metafilter: The fresh, refrigerated lard is the healthiest option
posted by Huffy Puffy at 7:14 AM on September 6, 2020 [3 favorites]
Metafilter: The fresh, refrigerated lard is the healthiest option
posted by Huffy Puffy at 7:14 AM on September 6, 2020 [3 favorites]
Yay lard! I use it in pie crusts at about 30% to 70% for butter. In Sweden one can occasionally find suet (talg) next to the lard (ister) in the butter section of the grocery, and you can grate a little of that in too. But the king of non-vegetarian cooking fats has to be duck fat. My local grocery decided to stop stocking it so I picked up 4 kilos at half price. The jars have best-by dates in 2023 so they'll be fine in the pantry for a while.
posted by St. Oops at 7:18 AM on September 6, 2020 [5 favorites]
posted by St. Oops at 7:18 AM on September 6, 2020 [5 favorites]
I use lard (real not processed) anywhere that I’m using high heat and a little bit goes a lot farther than any other oil. The fat seems more slippery than oils and so I use far less of it. Nothing beats lard for browning and crisping. I don’t bake but a lard crust is amazing.
My only complaint is that lard isn’t as tasty as duck fat which I use far more of and as often as I can.
posted by Conrad-Casserole at 7:23 AM on September 6, 2020
My only complaint is that lard isn’t as tasty as duck fat which I use far more of and as often as I can.
posted by Conrad-Casserole at 7:23 AM on September 6, 2020
(Or maybe I will try this recipe from Quebec which calls for five kinds of meat and sounds ABSOLUTELY GOD-DAMN AMAZING)
This recipe is really interesting. Seems like people used to use pastry more for its encasing function than as a delectable thing in its own right. I mean, almost five hours of baking? And the idea of adding liquid through the hole--that could totally work (although how would you be able to tell if it needed it?). If you make this, I would love to hear how it came out!
posted by HotToddy at 7:37 AM on September 6, 2020
This recipe is really interesting. Seems like people used to use pastry more for its encasing function than as a delectable thing in its own right. I mean, almost five hours of baking? And the idea of adding liquid through the hole--that could totally work (although how would you be able to tell if it needed it?). If you make this, I would love to hear how it came out!
posted by HotToddy at 7:37 AM on September 6, 2020
Viz comic: They're happy because they eat LARD.
posted by Lanark at 7:47 AM on September 6, 2020 [6 favorites]
posted by Lanark at 7:47 AM on September 6, 2020 [6 favorites]
Couple years back...three of these tubs came back from the butcher. Shortly after that, I attended a 4-H meeting where a dietician spoke. Afterwards, I asked her about the nutritional profile of home-raised lard and I swear to God, she recoiled in horror.
posted by MonkeyToes at 8:14 AM on September 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by MonkeyToes at 8:14 AM on September 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
I did not grow up with lard, I grew up with bacon fat collected in a can and used for whatever. I am guessing that maybe leftover bacon fat is considered a cousin of lard. All I know is that crispy iceberg lettuce coated with warm bacon bits and a dressing of bacon fat and Japanese seasoned rice vinegar is delicious and I wish I had some.
One of the benefits of keto is that I now use bacon fat for all sorts of things. My grandmother would approve (especially as I make my omelettes in a cast-iron pan).
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:18 AM on September 6, 2020 [2 favorites]
One of the benefits of keto is that I now use bacon fat for all sorts of things. My grandmother would approve (especially as I make my omelettes in a cast-iron pan).
posted by Halloween Jack at 8:18 AM on September 6, 2020 [2 favorites]
One benefit to living in PA is having access to Amish baked goods at farmers' markets and a lot of that stuff is made with lard. Shoo Fly Pie.
posted by octothorpe at 8:19 AM on September 6, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by octothorpe at 8:19 AM on September 6, 2020 [2 favorites]
I was standing in line at my favorite dim sum place in San Francisco when a nearby tourist swiviled her head around in horror and remarked how the back storage area was filled with boxes of... lard! So that's another culture which hasn't given up on it.
Myself, I'd also substitute bacon fat, but only for anything savory.
posted by Rash at 9:17 AM on September 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
Myself, I'd also substitute bacon fat, but only for anything savory.
posted by Rash at 9:17 AM on September 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
Eat the stuff. It’s delicious.
Americans spent 30 years believing butter was bad for them and eating margarine that turned out to be worse, and tasted like shit.
posted by spitbull at 9:24 AM on September 6, 2020 [6 favorites]
Americans spent 30 years believing butter was bad for them and eating margarine that turned out to be worse, and tasted like shit.
posted by spitbull at 9:24 AM on September 6, 2020 [6 favorites]
Are you sure they all were? Were you buying them from a particular pasty shop? I'm from Cornwall (and hence have, almost inevitably, worked in a pasty shop, although I refuse to confirm the rumours that this is a conscripted form of national service in Cornwall) and anything but some form of shortcrust is unusual.
I studied abroad my junior year at the University of Exeter and a not insignificant number of the pasties I encountered in Devon/Cornwall were in puff pastry. I remember it particularly because I'm from Michigan where shortcrust pasties are standard. But maybe it was a fad? This was during the low-fat era of the 1990s so perhaps it was a lard=bad thing.
posted by Preserver at 9:55 AM on September 6, 2020
I studied abroad my junior year at the University of Exeter and a not insignificant number of the pasties I encountered in Devon/Cornwall were in puff pastry. I remember it particularly because I'm from Michigan where shortcrust pasties are standard. But maybe it was a fad? This was during the low-fat era of the 1990s so perhaps it was a lard=bad thing.
posted by Preserver at 9:55 AM on September 6, 2020
My grandma's annual rout of the fall fair awards was due to her pie crust recipe which specifically calls for crisco. I didn't feel like going to the store one day so I made it with leftover lard. Holy. Shit.
Honestly it may be time for me to enter my blackberry pies in the fair and win back the ground we lost when grandma died.
posted by klanawa at 10:20 AM on September 6, 2020 [6 favorites]
Honestly it may be time for me to enter my blackberry pies in the fair and win back the ground we lost when grandma died.
posted by klanawa at 10:20 AM on September 6, 2020 [6 favorites]
But the king of non-vegetarian cooking fats has to be duck fat.
Duck fat is my lard, for sure. It is so good for so many things. And when using it to make something like pancakes, the duckiness cooks out, leaving just the richness. We save it from our confit de canard, and when I make a magret, I also cook everything else with the fat it generates.
posted by snofoam at 10:23 AM on September 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
Duck fat is my lard, for sure. It is so good for so many things. And when using it to make something like pancakes, the duckiness cooks out, leaving just the richness. We save it from our confit de canard, and when I make a magret, I also cook everything else with the fat it generates.
posted by snofoam at 10:23 AM on September 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
Wow. Thanks for this post!
I grew up in the 60s, with TV full of Crisco commercials. "Crisco is better!" But they never said, better than what?
Then in 1990, my new partner disclosed, he made piecrust with lard. Hit me as GROSS!
Until I ate it. NOW I know what Crisco was lying about.
Duck fat, hmm? I just had duck-egg omelette for lunch. But my ducks are pets, not food. Pets, and insect control specialists. And I have 5 eggs in the incubator, due to hatch tomorrow!
posted by Goofyy at 10:40 AM on September 6, 2020 [4 favorites]
I grew up in the 60s, with TV full of Crisco commercials. "Crisco is better!" But they never said, better than what?
Then in 1990, my new partner disclosed, he made piecrust with lard. Hit me as GROSS!
Until I ate it. NOW I know what Crisco was lying about.
Duck fat, hmm? I just had duck-egg omelette for lunch. But my ducks are pets, not food. Pets, and insect control specialists. And I have 5 eggs in the incubator, due to hatch tomorrow!
posted by Goofyy at 10:40 AM on September 6, 2020 [4 favorites]
Among my mom's annual mix of 20+ different types of Xmas cookies were Schmalznuesse. 2 flavors, chocolate vanilla, both made with lard. Schmalznuesse literally means lard nuts. So good!
posted by Hairy Lobster at 11:14 AM on September 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by Hairy Lobster at 11:14 AM on September 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
We used Old (blue) Transfat Crisco when I was a kid. When they discovered Crisco Transfats were bad for you, they reformulated Crisco to be non-transfat. It was advertised as JUST LIKE old Crisco, minus the transfats. But, it did not work the same in pie crusts. I tried. I really did. But the reformulated Crisco DID NOT work the same. I gave up and switched to lard. Lard is fine and that's what I use now (except tarte tatin, where I use butter) for pastry work.
Lard is wonderful in biscuits, pie dough, and as a fat to fry things crispy in. I use bacon fat (saved in a jar next to the stove) for omelets, homefries, and as the not-ghee thing I hot up my spices for when I'm doing indian cooking. (I cannot keep ghee in my house because I will eat it with a spoon until it is gone. I do not have this problem with bacon fat.)
posted by which_chick at 11:16 AM on September 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
Lard is wonderful in biscuits, pie dough, and as a fat to fry things crispy in. I use bacon fat (saved in a jar next to the stove) for omelets, homefries, and as the not-ghee thing I hot up my spices for when I'm doing indian cooking. (I cannot keep ghee in my house because I will eat it with a spoon until it is gone. I do not have this problem with bacon fat.)
posted by which_chick at 11:16 AM on September 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
I studied abroad my junior year at the University of Exeter and a not insignificant number of the pasties I encountered in Devon/Cornwall were in puff pastry.
Not sure I should contribute further to this derail (siderail?) but puff pastry is a pretty good sign you're not getting the real thing. It's what the dreaded Ginster's use for their rotten product. Puff pastry is a requirement for the sort of pasty that contains minced beef, carrots and peas, and is sold in packs of four in supermarkets. I lived in the north of England for a decade or so, and that's what you'd get in most of the bakery chains, at least in the 90s. When many of those chains were bought out by what is now Gregg's, the puff pastry 'slice' became their signature food item. The 'slice' is a thing owing as much of its heritage to the pop tart as to the pasty.
There's some debate over whether pasties from Devon are acceptable - I've had many that were rather good. There was something of a 'pasty renaissance' that happened around 2000. Pasty shops were opening up in high streets all over the nation. Most of those disappeared after about 2005 - you'll still find the odd one at a motorway services or a railway station, where you'll pay something like £7 for something that's been warmed over in one of those over/microwave contraptions.
Most Cornish bakeries use a shortcrust made with higher gluten flour, as the pastry needs to be elastic for proper crimping. If you use conventional shortcrust, all you can do is a pie-edge type of crimp, which is why those often have a wavy crimp along the top where they're just pressed together. The butter and lard do give it a slight flakiness though, which is why you could be forgiven for thinking it's rough puff pastry.
I'm Cornish and I make pasties, but I can't call them Cornish under the PGI regulations. Post-January, that may no longer be the case, and I'd imagine Ginsters will relocate out of the one county that doesn't eat their pies; they're only there because of PGI.
posted by pipeski at 11:19 AM on September 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
Not sure I should contribute further to this derail (siderail?) but puff pastry is a pretty good sign you're not getting the real thing. It's what the dreaded Ginster's use for their rotten product. Puff pastry is a requirement for the sort of pasty that contains minced beef, carrots and peas, and is sold in packs of four in supermarkets. I lived in the north of England for a decade or so, and that's what you'd get in most of the bakery chains, at least in the 90s. When many of those chains were bought out by what is now Gregg's, the puff pastry 'slice' became their signature food item. The 'slice' is a thing owing as much of its heritage to the pop tart as to the pasty.
There's some debate over whether pasties from Devon are acceptable - I've had many that were rather good. There was something of a 'pasty renaissance' that happened around 2000. Pasty shops were opening up in high streets all over the nation. Most of those disappeared after about 2005 - you'll still find the odd one at a motorway services or a railway station, where you'll pay something like £7 for something that's been warmed over in one of those over/microwave contraptions.
Most Cornish bakeries use a shortcrust made with higher gluten flour, as the pastry needs to be elastic for proper crimping. If you use conventional shortcrust, all you can do is a pie-edge type of crimp, which is why those often have a wavy crimp along the top where they're just pressed together. The butter and lard do give it a slight flakiness though, which is why you could be forgiven for thinking it's rough puff pastry.
I'm Cornish and I make pasties, but I can't call them Cornish under the PGI regulations. Post-January, that may no longer be the case, and I'd imagine Ginsters will relocate out of the one county that doesn't eat their pies; they're only there because of PGI.
posted by pipeski at 11:19 AM on September 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
I don't have very strong feelings about lard one way or the other. But there is this weird, pro-sat-fat thing that has grown in this century where some people insist that saturated fats (lard/butter/coconut) are healthier for you than standard liquid cooking oils for various hazy reasons. For instance, one person talked about smoke point, until I pointed out that lard/butter have a lower smoke point than typical vegetable oils (including most olive oils). They still swear by their stance, though.
posted by splitpeasoup at 11:25 AM on September 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by splitpeasoup at 11:25 AM on September 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
Lard is very easy to render if you have an Instant Pot. Just put it on the slow cook - high setting for 5-6 hours.
Hmmmm. Pressure lid, or glass lid with the tiny vent?
posted by clew at 11:27 AM on September 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
Hmmmm. Pressure lid, or glass lid with the tiny vent?
posted by clew at 11:27 AM on September 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
PS: also want to point out that in recent years pork products have been weaponized as an anti-immigrant device in Denmark and Germany (example).
posted by splitpeasoup at 11:28 AM on September 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by splitpeasoup at 11:28 AM on September 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
My goodness - the power of lard!
posted by Guy Smiley at 11:35 AM on September 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by Guy Smiley at 11:35 AM on September 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
Duck fat is my lard, for sure.
When I was growing up, it was my Gänseschmalz. Which, in a version that included flecks of browned onion, spread ever so thin on slightly toasted Schwarzbrot, and topped with just a toss of salt, was... glorious Sunday Gabelfrühstück fare.
In its Neapolitan guise of sugna, it’s what makes the sfogliatella possible, and inimitable.
posted by progosk at 11:47 AM on September 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
When I was growing up, it was my Gänseschmalz. Which, in a version that included flecks of browned onion, spread ever so thin on slightly toasted Schwarzbrot, and topped with just a toss of salt, was... glorious Sunday Gabelfrühstück fare.
In its Neapolitan guise of sugna, it’s what makes the sfogliatella possible, and inimitable.
posted by progosk at 11:47 AM on September 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
lalochezia, I had no idea that Wordshore posted about lard last month. Somehow I completely missed that post. Which is maybe just as well, because I’m enjoying this one. Including the discussion of Cornish pasties and Gänseschmalz.
posted by Bella Donna at 12:04 PM on September 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by Bella Donna at 12:04 PM on September 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
Duck fat doesn't work as well for baking as lard, in my experience, so there is room for both. If I am making hashbrowns and I have duck fat you can bet I'll use it. It's not really a staple in Sweden so it's not always available, and what we get is imported from France, so it sounds fantastically extravagant, but it generally costs only about €6 for 500g, compared with butter, €4, and lard, €2. About what I would pay for a middling olive oil.
posted by St. Oops at 12:08 PM on September 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by St. Oops at 12:08 PM on September 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
Homemade southern biscuits require lard and whole fat buttermilk. Elsewise, they are fake scones when made with alternative ingredients.
posted by mightshould at 12:10 PM on September 6, 2020
posted by mightshould at 12:10 PM on September 6, 2020
There isn’t any buttermilk In Sweden, I am sorry to report. Not in my neighborhood, anyway. Plenty of various types of fermented dairy products but no buttermilk. Right now I can find actual cornmeal when years ago I could find only corn starch. So my pancakes are better at least.
posted by Bella Donna at 12:13 PM on September 6, 2020
posted by Bella Donna at 12:13 PM on September 6, 2020
In case that was confusing, no I do not use cornstarch in my pancakes. But I do like to use cornmeal in them and now I can again. One of the problems with moving is finding food that helps you feel at home. Of course, now I’m in love with various Swedish foods that I cannot get in the US so I get to feel deprived in both places.
posted by Bella Donna at 12:18 PM on September 6, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by Bella Donna at 12:18 PM on September 6, 2020 [2 favorites]
Having spent a month in Stockholm, long enough to observe the national love affair with all things dairy, I find the specific absence of buttermilk weird. It makes me wonder how that particular niche wound up being the one left unfilled.
posted by notoriety public at 1:19 PM on September 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by notoriety public at 1:19 PM on September 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
I am lucky.
I buy lard from my local butcher.
A 2 block walk from my house.
Regular lard or leaf lard.
posted by davebarnes at 2:38 PM on September 6, 2020
I buy lard from my local butcher.
A 2 block walk from my house.
Regular lard or leaf lard.
posted by davebarnes at 2:38 PM on September 6, 2020
...the king of non-vegetarian cooking fats has to be duck fat.
Sometime this March I made a cassoulet for the first time (shortly after discovering that the Wegmans near me has an entire game meat section); it contained pork, chicken, duck, bacon, and sausage. I had to brown all the meats before starting them cooking, but then remove all but a small film of the ensuing fat in the bottom. I saved the leftover fat in a jar that now lives in the fridge and my roommate and I refer to as "The Cooking Fat of The Gods."
....However, truth be told that when I'm cooking something I'm more likely to reach for the olive oil anyway.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:22 PM on September 6, 2020
Sometime this March I made a cassoulet for the first time (shortly after discovering that the Wegmans near me has an entire game meat section); it contained pork, chicken, duck, bacon, and sausage. I had to brown all the meats before starting them cooking, but then remove all but a small film of the ensuing fat in the bottom. I saved the leftover fat in a jar that now lives in the fridge and my roommate and I refer to as "The Cooking Fat of The Gods."
....However, truth be told that when I'm cooking something I'm more likely to reach for the olive oil anyway.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:22 PM on September 6, 2020
Like some above, I also grew up in the Exciting World of Tomorrow where every problem was going to be solved with an Epcot-approved product or technology and everyone used Crisco and, for some reason now lost to history, everyone had an electric can opener. I then moved into a world of ever changing and ever conflicting health advice, but through it all saturated fat was Evil. So I regret to say that I’ve never cooked with lard and don’t remember even seeing it in major US grocery chains until quite recently.
But I’m pretty certain my grandmother used lard and that explains why her pies were always the best. (Well, also because she was my grandmother.) If my baking gets adventurous enough to get into pastries, I’ll definitely be looking into lard. As it is now, I’m sticking to bread at home and buying my pastries from a local artisan baker who’s taking weekly orders for pick-up on Saturdays. I’m going to have to be a lot more physically active than I am in these strange times to be eating pastries more than occasionally.
posted by sjswitzer at 5:22 PM on September 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
But I’m pretty certain my grandmother used lard and that explains why her pies were always the best. (Well, also because she was my grandmother.) If my baking gets adventurous enough to get into pastries, I’ll definitely be looking into lard. As it is now, I’m sticking to bread at home and buying my pastries from a local artisan baker who’s taking weekly orders for pick-up on Saturdays. I’m going to have to be a lot more physically active than I am in these strange times to be eating pastries more than occasionally.
posted by sjswitzer at 5:22 PM on September 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
Love lard! It’s so darn hard to find in supermarkets though. :(
posted by Melismata at 5:26 PM on September 6, 2020
posted by Melismata at 5:26 PM on September 6, 2020
Mexican food section, it's called manteca and is sold in tubs. It's actually more common than you think.
posted by hippybear at 5:34 PM on September 6, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 5:34 PM on September 6, 2020 [4 favorites]
(or maybe that's a "west of the Rockies" thing, I dunno. I find it easily in most markets around here, and I live nearly in Canada.)
posted by hippybear at 5:35 PM on September 6, 2020
posted by hippybear at 5:35 PM on September 6, 2020
And speaking of pies... life in the past had its hardships but I’m reminded of a collection somewhere that had President Lincoln’s pie cabinet. People had furniture just for keeping their pies! My grandfather, no stranger to hardship himself, once complained that his step-mother would pack larger slices of pie in his step-brothers’ lunch boxes. And, you know... legit complaint but all I could think was, “Wait, you had pie in your lunchbox?”
Some things really were better in the old days.
posted by sjswitzer at 5:37 PM on September 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
Some things really were better in the old days.
posted by sjswitzer at 5:37 PM on September 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
Did anything installed in Lincoln's pie cabinet have to be approved by the Senate?
posted by hippybear at 5:40 PM on September 6, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by hippybear at 5:40 PM on September 6, 2020 [2 favorites]
No, it was his “kitchen cabinet.”
Also, yeah I think groceries on the west coast are much more likely to have a well-stocked Mexican food section, and you’re also more likely to have a full-on Mercado nearby.
posted by sjswitzer at 5:47 PM on September 6, 2020
Also, yeah I think groceries on the west coast are much more likely to have a well-stocked Mexican food section, and you’re also more likely to have a full-on Mercado nearby.
posted by sjswitzer at 5:47 PM on September 6, 2020
I'm hardly on the west coast, and have never lived within 300 miles of it. But yeah, I think the grocery situation is different east vs west.
posted by hippybear at 5:52 PM on September 6, 2020
posted by hippybear at 5:52 PM on September 6, 2020
Our Weis grocery store has "lard" (or if you rotate the container 180 degrees "Manteca") in the fridge section near the butters and the packages of wet yeast. The small, local non-chain grocery displays the lard/manteca (again, bilingual packaging) in the meat section near the bagged kraut, on a shelf above the pork section, probably because it's a pork-adjacent product. If you're interested in this product and can't find it in your grocery, ask the store about it -- perhaps they have it tucked somewhere you have overlooked it. For what it's worth, I live in rural Pennsylvania.
posted by which_chick at 6:02 PM on September 6, 2020
posted by which_chick at 6:02 PM on September 6, 2020
Having spent a month in Stockholm, long enough to observe the national love affair with all things dairy, I find the specific absence of buttermilk weird. It makes me wonder how that particular niche wound up being the one left unfilled.
Here's what finecooking.com had to say about European and American buttermilk back in 2007:
posted by jamjam at 6:43 PM on September 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
Here's what finecooking.com had to say about European and American buttermilk back in 2007:
Q:This makes it sound like the US might be the country with a gap on its shelves, and that what the US calls buttermilk probably exists in Sweden under another name. I like knowing where the name came from because I always thought the taste was nothing like butter — though the color is, oddly enough. But I now suspect food coloring is added to make it look like butter for people like me who wonder what the heck this stuff has to do with butter anyway.
What is the difference between cultured and old-fashioned buttermilk?
Maria Presley, Durham, CT
A:
Cary Frye replies: What we call old-fashioned, or churned, buttermilk is very different from cultured buttermilk. It is the thin, slightly acidic liquid left over after churning butter from full-cream milk. It is drunk or used in soups and sauces in northern Europe and South Asia but is not available commercially in the United States.
The buttermilk sold in supermarkets here is cultured, created by fermenting pasteurized low-fat or nonfat milk so the milk sugars turn into lactic acid. It is thick and tart, a result of its increased acidity, which keeps the milk protein casein from being soluble and results in clabbering or curdling. (That is why you can make a stand-in for buttermilk by adding a tablespoon of lemon juice or white vinegar to a cup of milk, increasing the acidity and curdling the milk.)
Old-fashioned and cultured buttermilk cannot be used interchangeably. Cultured buttermilk is used in pancakes, scones, biscuits, and other baked products because of the tangy flavor and tender texture it imparts.
posted by jamjam at 6:43 PM on September 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
Okay, this is the thread where I finally grapple with the many many pounds of pork fat in my freezer. I am thoroughly confused as to whether this fat is worth turning into lard, because I thought for lard we were after only kidney fat?
HotToddy, do you know what breed of pig the lard came from? The mangalica lard I had was both the leaf (kidney) lard and the fatback, which is what it sounds like you have. The mangalica fatback made excellent lard, as did the higher quality leaf fat. Apparently, mangalica fat is higher in unsaturated fat than other breeds, so they have that advantage, as well.
In my (limited) experience, the temperature of rendering affects the “porkiness” of the final product. The key is to keep the temperature below 225 degrees Fahrenheit. This is where my multi-cooker really came in handy — the slow cooker function operates at 195 degrees for low and 212 for high. Even cooking on high gave me beautiful, smooth, rich, clean lard.
Even if the lard ends up kind of porky, you can use it for savory dishes so I say give it a try!
posted by Big Al 8000 at 6:46 PM on September 6, 2020
HotToddy, do you know what breed of pig the lard came from? The mangalica lard I had was both the leaf (kidney) lard and the fatback, which is what it sounds like you have. The mangalica fatback made excellent lard, as did the higher quality leaf fat. Apparently, mangalica fat is higher in unsaturated fat than other breeds, so they have that advantage, as well.
In my (limited) experience, the temperature of rendering affects the “porkiness” of the final product. The key is to keep the temperature below 225 degrees Fahrenheit. This is where my multi-cooker really came in handy — the slow cooker function operates at 195 degrees for low and 212 for high. Even cooking on high gave me beautiful, smooth, rich, clean lard.
Even if the lard ends up kind of porky, you can use it for savory dishes so I say give it a try!
posted by Big Al 8000 at 6:46 PM on September 6, 2020
Uh, I would make a puree of either olive oil and pumpkinseeds, or grapeseed oil and pumpkinseeds, maybe roasted, so there is a little more to the oil to do the work of the lard. I do stuff like this all the time in my cooking and baking, I subsitute nut creams for cream, and so forth. I don't mind the fat that is in pork, and sometimes fatty pork is just the thing, but for most days, i go with the not so heavy fats. I like to eat cheese, and I buy part skim cheeses, too, anyway. I watched my grandparents render lard, from a pig they slaughtered, and grandma made her everyday soap from this. She made her butter too. Good times.
posted by Oyéah at 6:58 PM on September 6, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by Oyéah at 6:58 PM on September 6, 2020 [2 favorites]
You, um... can't make butter from lard. Or perhaps I'm misunderstanding what you mean.
posted by hippybear at 7:04 PM on September 6, 2020
posted by hippybear at 7:04 PM on September 6, 2020
Big Al 8000's comment reminds me I read (I think in The Oxford Companion to Food) that pigs do not, unlike cows, adjust the degree of saturation of the fats they eat before storing them (de novo lipogenesis was not addressed and is apparently not a factor except when the diet is fat-impoverished, which would never happen in a hog raised for sale), so that what you get is what you see fit to feed your pig in the first place. This fact tempted at least one producer to offer pork with highly unsaturated fat, but the project was abandoned when the pig carcasses with polyunsaturated fats proved too slippery for meat packers to handle.
posted by jamjam at 7:09 PM on September 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by jamjam at 7:09 PM on September 6, 2020 [1 favorite]
Okay, it's quite possible that not all the pasties I ate in Cornwall were rough puff pastry. And it's true it doesn't hold up as well. But when I make them that way (and I slice the swede and potato thin) they taste the way I remember having them in Cornwall. And I'm sure not every pasty I ate in Cornwall was the best pasty ever made, but they were all mighty tasty to this poor deprived American boy.
posted by rikschell at 7:46 PM on September 6, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by rikschell at 7:46 PM on September 6, 2020 [2 favorites]
Buttermilk derail: filmjölk, a cultured sour milk and breakfast standard in Sweden makes a consistency- and acidity- acceptable substitute. Fine ground polenta is basically cornmeal. Groceries frequented by Balkan diaspora tend to have a good variety of polenta.
posted by St. Oops at 10:29 PM on September 6, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by St. Oops at 10:29 PM on September 6, 2020 [2 favorites]
Filmjölk isn’t too thick as a substitute? It hadn’t occurred to me as a substitute because of its consistency. Or maybe I could thin it with regular milk. What do you think, St. Oops? I did, indeed, grind polenta for my cornmeal until I discovered actual cornmeal at my newly expanded grocery store. Then I immediately made blueberry pancakes for the household because I had been picking blueberries. The cornmeal discovery happened only last month.
hippybear, I read Oyéah’s comment as meaning that her grandmother made lots of things, many from lard, and also made butter.
posted by Bella Donna at 12:05 AM on September 7, 2020
hippybear, I read Oyéah’s comment as meaning that her grandmother made lots of things, many from lard, and also made butter.
posted by Bella Donna at 12:05 AM on September 7, 2020
What is even better than lard is lard with the solids. (Grammeln) mixed in.
Spread on dark heavy sourdough bread we have here in Austria, it is the perfect snack to have with a weisser spritzer.
posted by 15L06 at 2:12 AM on September 7, 2020 [1 favorite]
Spread on dark heavy sourdough bread we have here in Austria, it is the perfect snack to have with a weisser spritzer.
posted by 15L06 at 2:12 AM on September 7, 2020 [1 favorite]
In Hungary we eat a lot of lard - you get it in the supermarket in big tubs located next to the butter section. The national bar snack is a slice of bread spread with lard, paprika, and red onions. Our national snack biscuit - pogacsa - is essentially a baked ball of lard polluted by a sprinkling of flour, topped with pork cracklings. Men carry pocket knives specifically for szalonnázás the afternoon raw bacon fat snack, rather like British tea time but with solid pig lipids instead. We don't live long, but - oh! - do we live!
That said, nothing beats frying chicken in lard. It fries hot, so the coating actually absorbs less of the cooking fat.
posted by zaelic at 4:08 AM on September 7, 2020 [4 favorites]
That said, nothing beats frying chicken in lard. It fries hot, so the coating actually absorbs less of the cooking fat.
posted by zaelic at 4:08 AM on September 7, 2020 [4 favorites]
> I watched my grandparents render lard, from a pig they slaughtered, and grandma made her everyday soap from this. She made her butter too.
You, um... can't make butter from lard. Or perhaps I'm misunderstanding what you mean.
I read this as that butter-making was another thing grandma regularly did in life, not as butter-making was a thing grandma did with pig fat. Like, insert the sentence "Grandma made a lot of things by hand like this" before "she made her butter too".
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:04 AM on September 7, 2020 [1 favorite]
You, um... can't make butter from lard. Or perhaps I'm misunderstanding what you mean.
I read this as that butter-making was another thing grandma regularly did in life, not as butter-making was a thing grandma did with pig fat. Like, insert the sentence "Grandma made a lot of things by hand like this" before "she made her butter too".
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:04 AM on September 7, 2020 [1 favorite]
Because working remotely has deprived me of the companionship of aimless chit-chat around the lab, I've been rewatching the old, old 1960s series of Julia Child's original series, The French Chef, in a little floating window on my screen while I'm working, which I love partly because it's fun, partly because it's still informative, all these years later, partly because she does gourmet cooking on an electric stove, which I once believed impossible, but in large part because I'm completely fascinated that she included a washer and dryer in her set for some insane reason and I've always wondered if she'd filled them with her own laundry for authenticity.
In the episode that originally aired on 27 April 1963, I had to laugh, because as she's preparing roast duck à l'orange, she says "Then, after your duck is defrosted, you'll find some fat in here, which you'll just pull out and discard, because you can't use duck fat for anything," which is shocking, because it so clearly indicates how desperately backwards and dreary American food culture was back then, when even an exuberant and enthusiastic cook had a hard time envisioning uses for something that's now a premium ingredient.
posted by sonascope at 7:03 AM on September 7, 2020 [1 favorite]
In the episode that originally aired on 27 April 1963, I had to laugh, because as she's preparing roast duck à l'orange, she says "Then, after your duck is defrosted, you'll find some fat in here, which you'll just pull out and discard, because you can't use duck fat for anything," which is shocking, because it so clearly indicates how desperately backwards and dreary American food culture was back then, when even an exuberant and enthusiastic cook had a hard time envisioning uses for something that's now a premium ingredient.
posted by sonascope at 7:03 AM on September 7, 2020 [1 favorite]
HotToddy, do you know what breed of pig the lard came from?
It was either a Hereford or a Red Wattle.
posted by HotToddy at 7:40 AM on September 7, 2020
It was either a Hereford or a Red Wattle.
posted by HotToddy at 7:40 AM on September 7, 2020
For those who want a low-effort lard fix, "Grandma Utz Kettle-Style Potato Chips" are still deep fried in it. As far as I know, they're the only mass-market brand of potato chips that is. (There are probably still other regional options though, particularly if you live in or near Eastern PA.)
posted by Kadin2048 at 12:08 PM on September 7, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by Kadin2048 at 12:08 PM on September 7, 2020 [3 favorites]
Once on an international flight over the Atlantic I saw another passenger eating a stick of lard as a snack. Just lard, straight up. So I guess that’s a thing somewhere.
posted by sjswitzer at 1:40 PM on September 7, 2020
posted by sjswitzer at 1:40 PM on September 7, 2020
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posted by pipeski at 3:47 AM on September 6, 2020 [10 favorites]