Deadspin is dead. Long live Defector.
September 10, 2020 8:08 AM Subscribe
Today, (most of) the former staff of Deadspin launched Defector. As recounted previously on the blue, Deadspin imploded last fall after en masse resignations sparked by the site's new owners' (herb) mandate to "stick to sports." Now, most of the site's former employees have regrouped as the blogger-owned-and-operated Defector. The site will operate on a paid basis but is, for the moment, free to read. EIC Tom Ley explains how we got here. You can already read why your team sucks.
Sadly, I don't have money to spare for a website subscription, least of which one primarily devoted to sport (even if they do not stick to it), but I wish them well.
posted by JHarris at 8:21 AM on September 10, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by JHarris at 8:21 AM on September 10, 2020 [1 favorite]
There's some stylistic clunkiness, and the comments are already broken, so really it feels even more like coming home than I expected. I'm so happy to have this group of weirdos back writing about sports.
I do have some concerns about how the recent profusion of worker-owned media groups (Defector, Discourse, Publication To Be Named Later), which I think is mostly an unalloyed good, are going to handle issues of diversity and bringing new people into the industry. Deadspin was always pretty white, so that's not a new issue, but they did a really good job of finding and growing young talent - going back to any given year of any of the old Gawker media sites and looking at the masthead will show some shocking assemblages of talent. I feel like that's going to be difficult for a co-op to do, because the risk is so much higher for bringing in a co-owner than it is to bring on an underpaid intern/early-career employee. I know there are ways to work around that - sweat equity systems come to mind - but I still think that's going to be one of their biggest challenges.
posted by protocoach at 8:31 AM on September 10, 2020 [3 favorites]
I do have some concerns about how the recent profusion of worker-owned media groups (Defector, Discourse, Publication To Be Named Later), which I think is mostly an unalloyed good, are going to handle issues of diversity and bringing new people into the industry. Deadspin was always pretty white, so that's not a new issue, but they did a really good job of finding and growing young talent - going back to any given year of any of the old Gawker media sites and looking at the masthead will show some shocking assemblages of talent. I feel like that's going to be difficult for a co-op to do, because the risk is so much higher for bringing in a co-owner than it is to bring on an underpaid intern/early-career employee. I know there are ways to work around that - sweat equity systems come to mind - but I still think that's going to be one of their biggest challenges.
posted by protocoach at 8:31 AM on September 10, 2020 [3 favorites]
So, the Athletic has already been operating on a similar basis, right? I wonder how it's working for them financially. I think that's more of a straight sports site.
There's a lot of alternatives, but it did always seem like the old Deadspin had a core of loyal fans, so maybe it will work out.
posted by selfnoise at 8:33 AM on September 10, 2020
There's a lot of alternatives, but it did always seem like the old Deadspin had a core of loyal fans, so maybe it will work out.
posted by selfnoise at 8:33 AM on September 10, 2020
> So, the Athletic has already been operating on a similar basis, right? I wonder how it's working for them financially. I think that's more of a straight sports site.
Sort of. They're both subscription-funded, but the Athletic is not worker-owned, and it's heavily dependent on VC cash. As of September of last year, they were still losing money. As far as I know, Defector doesn't have any financing (I mean, probably some loans, but nothing near the scale of the Athletic).
posted by protocoach at 8:36 AM on September 10, 2020 [1 favorite]
Sort of. They're both subscription-funded, but the Athletic is not worker-owned, and it's heavily dependent on VC cash. As of September of last year, they were still losing money. As far as I know, Defector doesn't have any financing (I mean, probably some loans, but nothing near the scale of the Athletic).
posted by protocoach at 8:36 AM on September 10, 2020 [1 favorite]
protocoach: I would imagine that "no VC funding" is written into Defector's damn charter after what happened with Deadspin.
posted by Navelgazer at 8:43 AM on September 10, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by Navelgazer at 8:43 AM on September 10, 2020 [2 favorites]
I missed this website so much and am so happy to give these lovable scamps my money. Power to the workers, to hell with access, favor, and discretion.
posted by NBelarski at 8:47 AM on September 10, 2020 [6 favorites]
posted by NBelarski at 8:47 AM on September 10, 2020 [6 favorites]
They have merch as well - if you are in the market for baby clothes, this onesie would be appropriate.
posted by mogget at 9:19 AM on September 10, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by mogget at 9:19 AM on September 10, 2020 [3 favorites]
I wish I followed the sports they're likely to cover, because damn, what good writing and what an awesome thing they're creating here. The article Navelgazer linked is just fantastic.
posted by kalimac at 9:58 AM on September 10, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by kalimac at 9:58 AM on September 10, 2020 [2 favorites]
I can't truly express how happy I am that they're back. Things have obviously been even worse since deadspin shuttered, but looking back having the site be ready to speak truth to power really helped me feel better. I subscribed as soon as I could, and am hopeful they can make it work. Even having Roth and Magary back for a podcast has been awesome.
posted by Carillon at 10:51 AM on September 10, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by Carillon at 10:51 AM on September 10, 2020 [2 favorites]
In case it's not obvious, I, too, am thrilled they're back. And really hoping this co-op model can thrive.
Business model aside, they do seem to have learned some lessons from their not-always-sterling past, and put some thought into how to build a site where people would actually want to spend time. E.g., while this team is are obviously coming from a different history and posture than the MeFi community, their "How to Comment" guide seems simpatico with the goals here, albeit written very much in their house voice:
Business model aside, they do seem to have learned some lessons from their not-always-sterling past, and put some thought into how to build a site where people would actually want to spend time. E.g., while this team is are obviously coming from a different history and posture than the MeFi community, their "How to Comment" guide seems simpatico with the goals here, albeit written very much in their house voice:
A good rule of thumb is this: If you can imagine a smart and good-smelling reader—one who has never heard of you before and has no particular curiosity about your thoughts simply by virtue of their having originated inside your brain—reading your comment and then thinking, “Dang, I’m really glad I scrolled down and checked out the comments,” then it is a good comment and you should post it. If the only person you can imagine reading your comment and having that thought is someone who has a power drill sticking out of the side of their head, then it is a bad comment and you should not post it.And also, #1 on their "expressly forbidden" list:
You are not allowed to post bigoted shit in the comments. “Bigoted shit” is defined however whichever Defector staffperson happens to be looking at your comment defines it; err on the side of extreme caution.posted by theoddball at 11:02 AM on September 10, 2020 [19 favorites]
WE'RE BACK! WE'RE BAAAAAAACK
posted by ominous_paws at 12:02 PM on September 10, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by ominous_paws at 12:02 PM on September 10, 2020 [2 favorites]
yeeeeeeeahhh! Now can we do the same thing with the Bon Appetit Test Kitchen?
posted by drewbage1847 at 2:20 PM on September 10, 2020 [4 favorites]
posted by drewbage1847 at 2:20 PM on September 10, 2020 [4 favorites]
I love the bit in this one referring to both Mark Jackson & Jeff Van Gundy as "Future Knicks head coach." God knows it's probably true.
posted by Devils Rancher at 2:23 PM on September 10, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by Devils Rancher at 2:23 PM on September 10, 2020 [1 favorite]
I don't like the new interface, the left pane takes up way too much. I'm not a fan of the "We're back" thing. Just go back to writing about sports or whatever and don't make the controversy your thing. Do a quality sportsblog.
That said, I'm waiting to see what they have to hate about the Chiefs. They won the Super Bowl, no off season antics, basically the same team and the Future Hall of Fame quarterback is leading a successful BLM awareness campaign that is, rarely for sports, accepted and embraced by owners and players alike.
posted by geoff. at 2:27 PM on September 10, 2020
That said, I'm waiting to see what they have to hate about the Chiefs. They won the Super Bowl, no off season antics, basically the same team and the Future Hall of Fame quarterback is leading a successful BLM awareness campaign that is, rarely for sports, accepted and embraced by owners and players alike.
posted by geoff. at 2:27 PM on September 10, 2020
That said, I'm waiting to see what they have to hate about the Chiefs
The fact it took them until 2020 to ban fans from wear headdresses and racist facepaint to games? And still seems to have zero interest in changing the team name, the stadium name, or even the mascot horse named Warpaint?
posted by thecjm at 3:02 PM on September 10, 2020 [2 favorites]
The fact it took them until 2020 to ban fans from wear headdresses and racist facepaint to games? And still seems to have zero interest in changing the team name, the stadium name, or even the mascot horse named Warpaint?
posted by thecjm at 3:02 PM on September 10, 2020 [2 favorites]
Now's a great time not to stick to sports, since viewership seems to be plummeting all around. The new Gallup poll shows attitudes toward corporate sports have fallen 30% in the past year:
The sports industry now has a negative image, on balance, among Americans as a whole, with 30% viewing it positively and 40% negatively, for a -10 net-positive score. This contrasts with the +20 net positive image it enjoyed in 2019, when 45% viewed it positively and 25% negatively.
posted by 445supermag at 4:33 PM on September 10, 2020 [1 favorite]
The sports industry now has a negative image, on balance, among Americans as a whole, with 30% viewing it positively and 40% negatively, for a -10 net-positive score. This contrasts with the +20 net positive image it enjoyed in 2019, when 45% viewed it positively and 25% negatively.
posted by 445supermag at 4:33 PM on September 10, 2020 [1 favorite]
I waffles over buying a subscription. I talked about it with a friend who also read Deadspin daily, and he balked at the price initially. Then, this week, he mentioned he decided to spring for it, which got me off the fence, and I’m glad I did, waking up to a wall of new stories. Weirdly, I never commented on gawker or any of the sites, and never really felt like I would contribute much to the conversation there. That, combined with difficulty rationalizing spending money on things that make me happy kept me at the bottom “reader only” tier.
Huh. It just sort of hit me, typing this out: subscription only pretty much means we can’t really share their stories here, right? Damn.
posted by Ghidorah at 5:07 PM on September 10, 2020 [1 favorite]
Huh. It just sort of hit me, typing this out: subscription only pretty much means we can’t really share their stories here, right? Damn.
posted by Ghidorah at 5:07 PM on September 10, 2020 [1 favorite]
Cardinals at Niners: Personally speaking, Zoom calls have completely warped my ability to communicate. During quarantine, I’ve had to use Zoom for meetings, parent-teacher conferences, virtual cocktails, appointments with my therapist, and podcasting. I have no internal barometer in order to keep these things separate. I could be on a video call with my folks and scream out WE’RE BACK like I’m doing a show, or I could be in a meeting and suddenly start yapping about using the THINK method to manage my anger. The lines are ALL blurred and I lack the equipment necessary to unblur them. Also, if I have more than two Zoom things a day, I am fucking exhausted. I would make a poor Zoom NBA fan. They’d put me up on the board and somehow I’d think it was time for a colonoscopy.
I fucking love Drew Magary.
posted by medusa at 5:45 PM on September 10, 2020
I fucking love Drew Magary.
posted by medusa at 5:45 PM on September 10, 2020
I'm glad that Jon Bois has such a good thing going with SBNation, where they'll allow him to follow his own dorky, weird rabbit holes, but man he'd be a cool addition to something like this, and fit in very well.
posted by Navelgazer at 5:51 PM on September 10, 2020 [1 favorite]
posted by Navelgazer at 5:51 PM on September 10, 2020 [1 favorite]
That said, I'm waiting to see what they have to hate about the Chiefs
Chiefs fans just booed a moment of silence for racial equality. I imagine Magary can find some things to say.
posted by Navelgazer at 5:59 PM on September 10, 2020 [3 favorites]
Chiefs fans just booed a moment of silence for racial equality. I imagine Magary can find some things to say.
posted by Navelgazer at 5:59 PM on September 10, 2020 [3 favorites]
The Athletic is running a $1 promo right now - presumably to counter this? Or is Defector too small potatoes for The Athletic to notice?
posted by thecjm at 7:29 PM on September 10, 2020
posted by thecjm at 7:29 PM on September 10, 2020
Seeing video of the Chiefs fans booing the moment of silence, it made me appreciate the NBA bubble and lack of fans over the recent weeks all the more.
That, and the immediate segue into the tomahawk chop... Jesus.
posted by Ghidorah at 7:29 PM on September 10, 2020 [1 favorite]
That, and the immediate segue into the tomahawk chop... Jesus.
posted by Ghidorah at 7:29 PM on September 10, 2020 [1 favorite]
> Huh. It just sort of hit me, typing this out: subscription only pretty much means we can’t really share their stories here, right? Damn.
Are paywalled/partially-paywalled sites off limits here? I'm not clear on what the rules are on Defector's paywall - poked around on the site for a bit and couldn't find details. The first subscriber tier says the benefit is "Unlimited Reading", which I guess I assumed meant that non-subscribers could see some posts, kinda like the NYT or the Atlantic.
> The Athletic is running a $1 promo right now - presumably to counter this? Or is Defector too small potatoes for The Athletic to notice?
I think they're always running some kinda promo, especially if it's been a bit since you went to the site.
posted by protocoach at 7:45 PM on September 10, 2020
Are paywalled/partially-paywalled sites off limits here? I'm not clear on what the rules are on Defector's paywall - poked around on the site for a bit and couldn't find details. The first subscriber tier says the benefit is "Unlimited Reading", which I guess I assumed meant that non-subscribers could see some posts, kinda like the NYT or the Atlantic.
> The Athletic is running a $1 promo right now - presumably to counter this? Or is Defector too small potatoes for The Athletic to notice?
I think they're always running some kinda promo, especially if it's been a bit since you went to the site.
posted by protocoach at 7:45 PM on September 10, 2020
Also a "$1 for your first month" deal is pretty standard.
(Personally, I think paywalled sites with wide readerships and monthly sample articles are fair game. But also, please pay for the journalism that you read if you can. Twenty years of free-as-in-beer news has not been great for the public.)
posted by thecaddy at 7:05 AM on September 11, 2020
(Personally, I think paywalled sites with wide readerships and monthly sample articles are fair game. But also, please pay for the journalism that you read if you can. Twenty years of free-as-in-beer news has not been great for the public.)
posted by thecaddy at 7:05 AM on September 11, 2020
Metafilter's remit is "the best of the web," which technically doesn't preclude paywalled things, but I would definitely hesitate to post something that the majority of users couldn't read. It feels like a bait-and-switch, like when you Google something, and you click through, and are told PAY PAY PAY. That happens when the site serves Google different content than it does normal readers, and that's dishonest. This wouldn't be dishonest, but it still feels a little weird.
Creators do deserve to be paid, though. I just have to reserve most of my own money to buying food. It is a difficult situation. I hope, if my financial situation changes soon (it might!), that I'll have money to spare for things like this. (Donating to Metafilter is ahead of it on my list, though.)
posted by JHarris at 3:32 PM on September 11, 2020 [1 favorite]
Creators do deserve to be paid, though. I just have to reserve most of my own money to buying food. It is a difficult situation. I hope, if my financial situation changes soon (it might!), that I'll have money to spare for things like this. (Donating to Metafilter is ahead of it on my list, though.)
posted by JHarris at 3:32 PM on September 11, 2020 [1 favorite]
They exceeded their goals when they announced the subscription, from what I understand, before there was even any content. They're good writers with a pre-existing loyal readership - hopefully it's a model that works for them!
posted by sagc at 6:14 PM on September 11, 2020 [2 favorites]
posted by sagc at 6:14 PM on September 11, 2020 [2 favorites]
I would definitely hesitate to post something that the majority of users couldn't read. It feels like a bait-and-switch, like when you Google something, and you click through, and are told PAY PAY PAY.
I agree. There's enough issues with the paywall sites as is just with the ones that offer a few free articles a month (and how I wish we would tag them so i don't waste a click on something I might not have otherwise). If you're posting something that's totally locked to most.... and/or someone may not want to become a member/patron/whatever for one article.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:11 PM on September 11, 2020
I agree. There's enough issues with the paywall sites as is just with the ones that offer a few free articles a month (and how I wish we would tag them so i don't waste a click on something I might not have otherwise). If you're posting something that's totally locked to most.... and/or someone may not want to become a member/patron/whatever for one article.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:11 PM on September 11, 2020
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"The Summer of Game Over," by Ray Ratto, for Defector.
posted by Navelgazer at 8:20 AM on September 10, 2020